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siraatoaliyinhaqqun

Acknowledge Imam Ali A.s. As Your Rabb

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(salam)

Two of the Ahadith with all the references and the hadith about Imam Ali a.s. is RABB is rijaal tested, so don't doubt it.

ÍÏËäì ãÍãÏ Èä ÇáÍÓíä Èä ÇÈì ÇáÎØÇÈ Úä ãÍãÏ Èä ÓäÇä Úä ÚãÇÑ Èä ãÑæÇä

Úä ÇáãäÎá Úä ÌÇÈÑ ÞÇá ÞÇá ÃÈæ ÌÚÝÑ Úáíå ÇáÓáÇã ÞÇá ÑÓæá Çááå Õáì Çááå Úáíå æÂáå Çä ÍÏíË Âá ãÍãÏ ÕÚÈ ãÓÊÕÚÈ áÇ íÄãä Èå ÇáÇ ãáß ãÞÑÈ Ãæ äÈí ãÑÓá Ãæ ÚÈÏ ÇãÊÍä Çááå ÞáÈå ááÇíãÇä ÝãÇ æÑÏ Úáíßã ãä ÍÏíË Âá ãÍãÏ ÝáÇäÊ áå ÞáæÈßã æÚÑÝÊæå ÝÇÞÈáæå æãÇ ÇÔãÇÒÊ ãäå ÞáæÈßã æÇäßÑÊãæå ÝÑÏæå Åáì Çááå æÇáì ÇáÑÓæá æÇáì ÇáÚÇáã ãä Âá ãÍãÏ æ ÇäãÇ ÇáåÇáß Çä íÍÏË ÇÍÏßã ÈÔÆ ãäå áÇ íÍÊãáå ÝíÞæá æÇááå ãÇßÇä åÐÇ ÔíÆÇ æÇáÇäßÇÑ åæ ÇáßÝÑ

"Imam Baqir (as) said the hadith of Ale-Muahmmed is great , complicated, diffucult (to understand) no one believes in it except for a close angel, or Mursal prophets, or a servent whom Allah tested his heart for Iman (Imam Ali a.s) and whenever one receives a hadith of Ale-Muhammed and his heart softens due to it and he recognises it, (he must) accept it, and whatever your hearts disgust from and you deny return it back to Allah, his messenger and the Alim from Ale-Muhammed. Most surely, the only one who will be destroyed is the one who narrates something he cannot burden and thus says by Allah none of this is true, and denial is kufr"

(Biharul Anwar, this hadith has over 29 chains in Al-Basaer)

ÍÏËäÇ ÚÈÏ Çááå Èä ÚÇãÑ Úä ÇÈì ÚÈÏ Çááå ÇáÈÑÞì Úä ÇáÍÓíä Èä ÚËãÇä Úä ãÍãÏ Èä ÇáÝÖíá Úä ÇÈì ÍãÒÉ ÞÇá ÓÆáÊ ÇÈÇ ÌÚÝÑ Úáíå ÇáÓáÇã Úä Þæá Çááå ÊÈÇÑß æÊÚÇáì æãä íßÝÑ ÈÇáÇíãÇä ÝÞÏ ÍÈØ Úãáå æåæ Ýí ÇáÇÎÑÉ ãä ÇáÎÇÓÑíä ÞÇá ÊÝÓíÑåÇ Ýí ÈØä ÇáÞÑÂä íÚäì ãä íßÝÑ ÈæáÇíÉ Úáì æÚáì åæ ÇáÇíãÇä ÞÇá ÓÆáÊ ÇÈÇ ÌÚÝÑ Úáíå ÇáÓáÇã Úä Þæá Çááå ÊÚÇáì æßÇä ÇáßÇÝÑ Úáì ÑÈå ÙåíÑÇ ÞÇá ÊÝÓíÑåÇ Úáì ÈØä ÇáÞÑÂä íÚäì Úáì åæ ÑÈå Ýí ÇáæáÇíÉ æÇáØÇÚÉ æÇáÑÈ åæ ÇáÎÇáÞ ÇáÐì áÇ íæÕÝ æÞÇá ÃÈæ ÌÚÝÑ Úáíå ÇáÓáÇã Çä ÚáíÇ ÇíÉ áãÍãÏ æÇä ãÍãÏÇ íÏÚæ Åáì æáÇíÉ Úáì ÇãÇ ÈáÛß Þæá ÑÓæá Çááå Õáì Çááå Úáíå æÂáå ãä ßäÊ ãæáÇå ÝÚáì ãæáÇå Çááåã æÇá ãä æÇáÇå æÚÇÏ ãä ÚÇÏÇå ÝæÇáì Çááå ãä æÇáÇå æÚÇÏ Çááå ãä ÚÇÏÇå æÇãÇ Þæáå Çäßã áÝì Þæá ãÎÊáÝ ÝÇäå Úáì íÚäì Çäå áãÎÊáÝ Úáíå æÞÏ ÇÎÊáÝÊ åÐå ÇáÇãÉ Ýí æáÇíÊå Ýãä ÇÓÊÞÇã Úáì æáÇíÉ Úáì ÏÎá ÇáÌäÉ æãä

ÎÇáÝ æáÇíÉ Úáì ÏÎá ÇáäÇÑ æÇãÇ Þæáå íÄÝß Úäå ãä ÇÝß ÝÇäå íÚäì ÚáíÇ ãä ÇÝß ãä æáÇíÊå ÇÝß Úáì ) ÇáÌäÉ ÝÐáß Þæáå íæÝß Úäå ãä ÇÝß æÇãÇ Þæáå æÇäß áÊåÏì Åáì ÕÑÇØ ãÓÊÞíã Çäß áÊÃãÑ ÈæáÇíÉ Úáì Úáíå ÇáÓáÇã æÊÏÚæ ÅáíåÇ æÚáì åæ ÇáÕÑÇØ ÇáãÓÊÞíã æÃãÇ Þæáå ÝÇÓÊãÓß ÈÇáÐì ÇæÍì Çáíß Çäß Úáì ÕÑÇØ ãÓÊÞíã Çäß Úáì æáÇíÉ Úáì æÚáì åæ ÇáÕÑÇØ ÇáãÓÊÞíã æÇãÇ Þæáå ÝáãÇ äÓæÇ ãÇ ÐßÑæÇ íÚäì ÝáãÇ ÊÑßæÇ æáÇíÉ Úáì æÞÏ ÇãÑæÇ ÈåÇ ÝÊÍäÇ Úáíåã ÇÈæÇÈ ßá ÔÆ íÚäì ãÚ ÏæáÊåã Ýí ÇáÏäíÇ æãÇ ÈÓØ Åáíåã ÝíåÇ æÇãÇ Þæáå ÍÊì ÅÐÇ ÝÑÍæÇ ÈãÇ ÇæÊæÇ ÇÎÐäÇåã ÈÛÊÉ ÝÅÐÇ åã ãÈáÓæä íÚäì ÞíÇã ÇáÞÇÆã

"Narrated on the Authortiy of Abdullah Ibn Amer from Abu Abdullah Al-Barqy from Al-Husain Ibn Uthman from Muhammed Ibn Al-Fadeel from Abu Hamzah he said : I heard Imam Abu Jafar (as) say in relation to the Al-mighty saying " And who so ever disbeliefs in Iman his deeds will be of no account, and in the here after he shall be one of the losers", He (Imam) said it's batin tafseer means who so ever disbeliefs in wilayah, and Ali (as) is Iman. I also asked Abu Jafar in relation to "and the unbeliever is a partisan against his Rabb"(Furqan:55) he said it's batin tafseer means ALI IS HIS RABB IN WILAYAH AND ITA'A AND THE RABB IS THE CREATOR THAT CANNOT BE DESCRIBED....."

BASA'ER AL-DARAJAT PAGE 98

http://yasoob.com/books/htm1/m012/09/no0974.html

ÞÇá ÇáäÌÇÔí : " ÚÈÏÇááå Èä ÚÇãÑ Èä ÚãÑÇä Èä ÃÈí ÚãÑ ÇáÇÔÚÑí ¡ ÃÈæ ãÍãÏ ÔíÎ ãä æÌæå ÃÕÍÇÈäÇ ¡ ËÞÉ ¡ áå ßÊÇÈ äæÇÏÑ ¡ ÃÎÈÑäÇ ÇáÍÓíä Èä ÚÈíÏ Çááå Ýí ÂÎÑíä ¡ Úä ÌÚÝÑ Èä ãÍãÏ Èä Þæáæíå ¡ ÞÇá : ÍÏËäÇ ÇáÍÓíä Èä ãÍãÏ Èä ÚÇãÑ ¡ Úä Úãå Èå " .

Najashi: Abdullah Ibn Amer, Thiqah (trustworthy)

Tusi: "Muhammed Ibn Khalid,Thiqah (trusworthy)"

Allamah Al-Hilli :"Muhammed Ibn Khalid,Thiqah

(trusworthy)"

Najashi" His weak interms of hadith"

Ibn Ghada'eri: His hadith are ma3room and munka, he narrates from weak narrators"

Muhammed Ibn Khalid has been regarded relaible by both Al-tusi and hilli, however as for the critisim by najashi and Ibn ghada'eri, it was not due to his weakness but because he narrated from the weak,here is what Al-Khoei said:

Ãäß ÞÏ ÚÑÝÊ ãä ÇáÔíÎ ÊæËíÞ ãÍãÏ Èä ÎÇáÏ ÕÑíÍÇ ¡ æáßäå ãÚ Ðáß ÞÏ ÊæÞÝ ÈÚÖåã Ýí ÊæËíÞå ¡ Èá ÊÚÌÈ ÈÚÖåã ãä ÊÑÌíÍ ÇáÚáÇãÉ Þæá ÇáÔíÎ Úáì ÊÖÚíÝ ÇáäÌÇÔí ãÚ Ãäå ÃÖÈØ æÃÊÞä ¡ æáßä ÇáÕÍíÍ Ãä ÇáÚáÇãÉ áã íÑÌÍ Þæá ÇáÔíÎ Úáì Þæá ÇáäÌÇÔí ¡ æÅäãÇ ÐßÑ ÇÚÊãÇÏå Úáì Þæá ÇáÔíÎ ãä ÊÚÏíáå áÇÌá Ãä ßáÇã ÇáäÌÇÔí ÛíÑ ÙÇåÑ Ýí ÊÖÚíÝå ¡ æÅäãÇ ÇáÊÖÚíÝ íÑÌÚ Åáì ÍÏíËå ¡ áÇÌá Ãä ãÍãÏ Èä ÎÇáÏ ßÇä íÑæí Úä ÇáÖÚÝÇÁ æíÚÊãÏ Úáì ÇáãÑÇÓíá ¡ ßãÇ ÕÑÍ Èå ÇÈä ÇáÛÖÇÆÑí ¡ æÍíäÆÐ íÈÞì ÊæËíÞ ÇáÔíÎ ÈáÇ ãÚÇÑÖ

"You now know that the [Edited Out]heeq (declaring Muhammed ibn khaled as thiqah) of the sheikh (i.e tusi) was out certainty, despite the refraining of some from declaring him as thiqah, even some were suprised from Allamah AL-Hilli regarding him prefering the opinion of Al-Tusi over Al-Najashi, despite it being more precise and accurate. But the truth is Allamah did not just prefer the opinion of Al-Tusi over Al-najashi (for no reason), but he based his relaince on the opinion of Al-Tusi because the opinion of Al-Najashi doesn't indicate any his (Muhammed ibn Khaled) weakness, but the weakness only belongs to his narrations, because Muhammed ibn Khaled used to narrate from the weak and depend on Mursals, like how Ibn Ghda'eri declared, and thus the Al-Tusi's tawtheeq remains with no contradition (from other scholars) "

Al-Khoei decalared him relaible

æÞÇá ÇáäÌÇÔí : Åäå ÖÚíÝ ÇáÍÏíË ¡ æÇáÇÚÊãÇÏ ÚäÏí Úáì Þæá ÇáÔíÎ ÃÈí ÌÚÝÑ ÇáØæÓí ãä ÊÚÏíáå

"Al-najashi said he is weak in his narration,and I depend according to the opinion of Al-Tusi that is grading him as Adil"

"Muhammed Ibn Al-Fadeel, he is thiqah he is same as Muhammed Ibn Al-Qasim Bin Al-Fadeel, Al-khoei did a discussion on this guy and said he is thiqah" He even authenticated 2 chians from Al-Kafi having Muhammed Ibn Al-Fadeel in them"

ÝÞÏ Ñæì Çáßáíäí ÈÓäÏ ÕÍíÍ ¡ Úä ÇáÍÓíä Èä ÓÚíÏ ¡ Úä ãÍãÏ Èä ÇáÝÖíá ¡ Úä ÃÈí ÌÚÝÑ ÇáËÇäí Úáíå ÇáÓáÇã .

ÇáßÇÝí : ÇáÌÒÁ 2 ¡ ßÊÇÈ ÇáÏÚÇÁ 2 ¡ ÈÇÈ ÇáÞæá ÚäÏ ÇáÇÕÈÇÍ æÇáÇãÓÇÁ 48 ¡ ÇáÍÏíË 36 .

æÑæì ÈÓäÏå ÇáÕÍíÍ ÃíÖÇ Úäå ¡ Úä ãÍãÏ Èä ÇáÝÖíá ¡ Úä ÃÈí ÌÚÝÑ ÇáËÇäí

åæ ãÍãÏ Èä ÇáÞÇÓã ÇÈä ÇáÝÖíá ÇáËÞÉ

æÑæì Úäå ãÍãÏ Èä ÇáÝÖíá ßËíÑÇ : æíÍÊãá Ãä íßæä ãÍãÏ Èä ÇáÝÖíá åÐÇ ¡ åæ ãÍãÏ ÇÈä ÇáÞÇÓã Èä ÇáÝÖíá ÇáËÞÉ ¡ áÇä ÇáÔíÎ ÇáÕÏæÞ ãÍãÏ Èä Úáí Èä ÈÇÈæíå ¡ Ñæì ßËíÑÇ Ýí ÇáÝÞíå ¡ Úä ãÍãÏ Èä ÇáÝÖíá ¡ Úä ÃÈí ÇáÕÈÇÍ ÇáßäÇäí ¡ Ëã ÞÇá Ýí ãÔíÎÊå : æãÇ ßÇä Ýíå ãä ãÍãÏ Èä ÇáÞÇÓã Èä ÇáÝÖíá ÇáÈÕÑí ¡ ÕÇÍÈ ÇáÑÖÇ Úáíå ÇáÓáÇã ¡ ÝÞÏ ÑæíÊå Úä ÝáÇä ¡ Úä ÝáÇä ( Åáì ÂÎÑå ) æáã íÐßÑ Ýí ÇáãÔíÎÉ ØÑíÞå Åáì ãÍãÏ Èä ÇáÝÖíá ÃÕáÇ ¡ ÅáÇ Ãä íÞÇá : Åä ÇáÔíÎ ( ÇáÕÏæÞ ) áã íÐßÑ Ýí ÇáãÔíÎÉ ØÑíÞå Åáì ãÍãÏ Èä ÇáÝÖíá ¡ ßãÇ áã íÐßÑ ØÑíÞå Åáì ÃÈí ÇáÕÈÇÍ ÇáßäÇäí ¡ æÛíÑå ¡ ãÚ Ãä ÑæÇíÊå Ýí ÇáÝÞíå Úäå ßËíÑÉ ¡ æÇááå ÃÚáã " .

ÝÞÏ Ñæì Çáßáíäí ÈÓäÏ ÕÍíÍ ¡ Úä ÇáÍÓíä Èä ÓÚíÏ ¡ Úä ãÍãÏ Èä ÇáÝÖíá ¡ Úä ÃÈí ÌÚÝÑ ÇáËÇäí Úáíå ÇáÓáÇã .

ÇáßÇÝí : ÇáÌÒÁ 2 ¡ ßÊÇÈ ÇáÏÚÇÁ 2 ¡ ÈÇÈ ÇáÞæá ÚäÏ ÇáÇÕÈÇÍ æÇáÇãÓÇÁ 48 ¡ ÇáÍÏíË 36 .

æÑæì ÈÓäÏå ÇáÕÍíÍ ÃíÖÇ Úäå ¡ Úä ãÍãÏ Èä ÇáÝÖíá ¡ Úä ÃÈí ÌÚÝÑ ÇáËÇäí .

æÇáÍÓíä Èä ÚËãÇä ¡ åÐÇ ãÔÊÑß Èíä ÌãÇÚÉ ÇáÊãííÒ ÅäãÇ ÈÇáÑÇæí æÇáãÑæí Úäå ¡ æÅä áã íßä ááÇÔÊÑÇß ÃËÑ ¡ ÝÇä ÇáãÓãíä ÈåÐÇ ÇáÇÓã ßáåã ËÞÇÊ

"Al-Husain Ibn Uthman, Al-khoei declared him Thiqah"

"Abu hamzah = Thabit Ibn denaar, Saduk, tusi and najashi said he is Thiqah"

ËÇÈÊ Èä ÏíäÇÑ ÇáËãÇáí .

ÞÇá ÇáÔíÎ ( 138 ) : " ËÇÈÊ Èä ÏíäÇÑ íßäì ÃÈÇ ÍãÒÉ ÇáËãÇáí ¡ æßäíÉ ÏíäÇÑ ÃÈæ ÕÝíÉ .

ËÞÉ ¡ áå ßÊÇÈ ¡ ÃÎÈÑäÇ Èå ÚÏÉ ãä ÃÕÍÇÈäÇ ¡ Úä ãÍãÏ Èä Úáí Èä ÇáÍÓíä ¡ Úä ÃÈíå ¡ æãÍãÏ Èä ÇáÍÓä æãæÓì Èä ÇáãÊæßá ¡ Úä ÓÚÏ Èä ÚÈÏÇááå ¡ æÇáÍãíÑí ¡ Úä ÃÍãÏ Èä ãÍãÏ ¡ Úä ÇáÍÓä Èä ãÍÈæÈ ¡ Úä ÃÈí ÍãÒÉ .

æÃÎÈÑäÇ ÃÍãÏ Èä ÚÈÏæä Úä ÃÈí ØÇáÈ ÇáÇäÈÇÑí ¡ Úä ÍãíÏ Èä ÒíÇÏ ¡ Úä íæäÓ Èä Úáí ÇáÚØÇÑ Úä ÃÈí ÍãÒÉ æáå ßÊÇÈ ÇáäæÇÏÑ ¡ æßÊÇÈ ÇáÒåÏ ¡ ÑæÇåãÇ ÍãíÏ Èä ÒíÇÏ ¡ Úä ãÍãÏ Èä ÚíÇÔ Èä ÚíÓì ÃÈí ÌÚÝÑ ¡ Úä ÃÈí ÍãÒÉ " .

ÞÇá ÇáäÌÇÔí : " ËÇÈÊ Èä ÃÈí ÕÝíÉ ÃÈæÍãÒÉ ÇáËãÇáí ¡ æÇÓã ÃÈí ÕÝíÉ : ÏíäÇÑ ¡ ãæáì : ßæÝí ¡ ËÞÉ .

æÞÇá ÇáÕÏæÞ Ýí ÇáãÔíÎÉ ¡ ÚäÏ ÐßÑ ØÑíÞå Åáíå : " ÃÈæÍãÒÉ ËÇÈÊ Èä ÏíäÇÑ ÇáËãÇáí ¡ æÏíäÇÑ íßäì ÃÈÇ ÕÝíÉ ¡ æåæ ãä Íí ( Øí ) ( ãä ) Èäí ËÚá ¡ æäÓÈ Åáì ËãÇáÉ ¡ áÇä ÏÇÑå ßÇäÊ Ýíåã ¡ æÊæÝì ÓäÉ ( 150 ) ¡ æåæ ËÞÉ ¡ ÚÏá ¡ ÞÏ áÞí ÃÑÈÚÉ ãä ÇáÇÆãÉ Úáí Èä ÇáÍÓíä ¡ ãÍãÏ Èä Úáí ¡ æÌÚÝÑ Èä ãÍãÏ ¡ æãæÓì Èä ÌÚÝÑ Úáíåã ÇáÓáÇã " .

Ya Ali Madad

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Calling Ali Rabb is like calling him Allah?

LA ILAHA ILLALLAH

MUHAMMADAN RASOOLALLAH

ALIYYAN WALIYALLAH

WASIYYE RASOOLALLLAH

Edited by Hraza

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Why you put your faith at stake? Please avoid such things which caste doubt about Shia faith. We are already facing enemies and you people bring forward things which further cause doubts in people's mind. Whenever the word "Rabb" is used for some one other than Allah then you have to put "Harf e Izzafat" like "Rab e Fann Sipah Garii" (means he is master in fighting with sword). Hazrat Yousaf (as) has used the word "Rabb" for Aziz e Misr (Egypt) but here the word Rabb means (One who grows you up). The word "Rabb" is base of "Tarbiyat" .

Regards.

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Why you put your faith at stake? Please avoid such things which caste doubt about Shia faith. We are already facing enemies and you people bring forward things which further cause doubts in people's mind. Whenever the word "Rabb" is used for some one other than Allah then you have to put "Harf e Izzafat" like "Rab e Fann Sipah Garii" (means he is master in fighting with sword). Hazrat Yousaf (as) has used the word "Rabb" for Aziz e Misr (Egypt) but here the word Rabb means (One who grows you up). The word "Rabb" is base of "Tarbiyat" .

Regards.

Thanks for the explanation bro. Is that your image in your avatar?

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It's beyond me some of the terms and usages people on this board use. Yes, the term rabb, or "lord" as an english equivalent, does not always refer to God, but I nevertheless cannot understand how people throw around these words with no qualification. The opening post is talking about how Imam Ali is my rabb. This is very problematic, even in words. Why not say that Ali is our mawla? To be honest with you, if this was my first exposure to Shi'ism, I'd be running the other way.

If, for whatever reason, you want to refer to Ali as your "rabb," use it with qualification and explain the qualification because the term "rabb" is generally associated with God, whether in the Qur'an or in every day arabic usage.

Imagine if a Christian or a Sunni walked into this thread. Why be so insistent on using "rabb" to refer to our first imam? Why be so insistent on causing this sort of semantic confusion - one that puts your faith at risk? Subhanallah. Like Br. Aabiss said, why cast doubt on the Shi'a faith? If someone wants to doubt Shi'ism, that's fine. I just hope to God that he doesn't doubt it based on a thread like this. To be honest, Sunnis are much better at avoiding these sorts of problems than are Shi'a.

Edited by Philosopher

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siraatoaliyinhaq...

The deviant that doubts in the quran.

"I belief the quran has been distorted"

Let me quote some clear deviance from this clown.

"They a.s. were created by their creator and they are the creators of everything after that can be proven"

"When I was taught Ayat Al Kursi and I heard the word Ali al Azeem, I thougt it is about my Moula Ali a.s. I now cannot compare him a.s. with "Ya(*) or Nahno(Allahumma)" anymore as he is well above and that which is uncomprehendable."

"There have been many things done by aghiar and doing tehreef in Quran is just nothing for them. When Usman can allow to burn Quran which Hafsa had, he can always change the Quran and circulate it."

"Ali Is Omnipresent"

"If being omnipresent is Allah swt's sifath then Imam Ali a.s. should also posses it"

"Akhbaris don't believe Ali is Allah but they believe Allah is Ali."

this is just a small sample of the devilish chat of this deviated monkey.

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Guys, relax!

I am well aware that siraatoaliyinhaqqun is a hadith manipulator and a liar, but for once he has actually produced a valid hadith. Obviously Imam Ali [a] is our rubb in guardianship and obedience! All twelver shia's believe that. It's the whole point of the event of Ghadeer.

The problem it appears is in the usage of the particular word 'Rubb' in relation to Imam Ali [a], since it might imply to some that the hadith is referring to Imam Ali [a] as God, nadzobillah. But 'Rubb' does not mean 'God' in Arabic. It just means 'lord'. In fact, the Qur'an has used this word 'Rabb' in reference to ordinary persons (like Prophet Yousuf's master), and our parents as well, because it simply means 'lord'. So Imam Ali is certainly every Shi'as 'Rubb', but obviously so is Allah.

Edited by fyst

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Guys, relax!

I am well aware that siraatoaliyinhaqqun is a hadith manipulator and a liar, but for once he has actually produced a valid hadith. Obviously Imam Ali [a] is our rubb in guardianship and obedience! All twelver shia's believe that. It's the whole point of the event of Ghadeer.

The problem it appears is in the usage of the particular word 'Rubb' in relation to Imam Ali [a], since it might imply to some that the hadith is referring to Imam Ali [a] as God, nadzobillah. But 'Rubb' does not mean 'God' in Arabic. It just means 'lord'. In fact, the Qur'an has used this word 'Rabb' in reference to ordinary persons (like Prophet Yousuf's master), and our parents as well, because it simply means 'lord'. So Imam Ali is certainly every Shi'as 'Rubb', but obviously so is Allah.

Mashallah brother you have hit the target.

Ali is our rabb in wilaya and Ita'aa. Why should there be a problem.

I believe that Imam Ali a.s. has a creator who is La Isma La.

La Ilaha Illallah, Mohammadan Rasool Allah, Ali an Wali Allah Wasiye Rasool Allah Khalifata Hu Bila Fasl.

Ya Ali Madad

Don't doubt Ahadith and if the narrators are weak then turn it towards Allah, Rasool Allah or Aimma. What would you do if I also present a hadith where it says Imam Ali a.s. is Rabb of this earth?

Edited by siraatoaliyinhaqqun

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Asak

Farajahu Ila Min Ruwate Hadisena.

Is it a Hadith or a Fatwa which they give. If they give hadith then you have imitated the saying of Masoom, if fatwa then there are chance that his own reasoning and qiyas is involved so it is Ehtiyaatan Wajib to stay away from him. And you did not say what does saying Ulil Amr to a Marja or Naib e Imam would imply in the eyes of Allah swt who has made Ali Rabb in Wilayath and Itaat.

I don't want to make it another usooli Akhbari thread as I want to spread the true message of Ghadir to People who claim to be shias.

Ya Ali Madad

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Why you put your faith at stake? Please avoid such things which caste doubt about Shia faith. We are already facing enemies and you people bring forward things which further cause doubts in people's mind. Whenever the word "Rabb" is used for some one other than Allah then you have to put "Harf e Izzafat" like "Rab e Fann Sipah Garii" (means he is master in fighting with sword). Hazrat Yousaf has used the word "Rabb" for Aziz e Misr (Egypt) but here the word Rabb means (One who grows you up). The word "Rabb" is base of "Tarbiyat" .

Excellent post bro Aabiss.

Aliyyun Wali Allah, as the descriptive words of my faith, are sufficient for me. I do not need to twist words for the pleasure of the ignorant, because "Islam is practised by actions, not words" - Ali (as).

If I use cannabis 24/7, act haughty, having not a single particle of relevance to Ali 's commands or actions in my entire character or self, and then I preach the greatness of Ali with my cleverly chosen words to please like-minded souls, then I can't call myself a Muslim by virute of Ali's own statements. Or can I?

Edited by Abu Dujana

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siratunaliyuhaqqun: A hadith can be for a different issue and different person and different circumstance. The marjas understand the essence behind the hadith and apply it to current situations. Your argument about their reasoning being flawed is not correct. Even though it is possible, but practically speaking it makes no difference. When YOU listen to a ma'soom (as) you are also using your reasoning and applying his words to your situation. So this proves that reasoning is actually necessary. Our chances of misunderstanding the hadith is higher than the marja misunderstanding the hadith. Think of it as specialization of labour. You will only be making fun of the ma'soom (as) if you take his words literally and not understand the message the ma'soom (as) is giving. I can further prove this.

Edited by dingdong

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If I use cannabis 24/7, act haughty, having not a single particle of relevance to Ali (as)'s commands or actions in my entire character or self, and then I preach the greatness of Ali (as) with my cleverly chosen words to please like-minded souls, then I can't call myself a Muslim by virute of Ali's (as) own statements. Or can I?

bro,

how are you so sure that the person whoever has said such words uses cannabis 24/7 and is arrogant?

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Thats how all such people are that I have come across. Its an extremely consistent observation in my life. But I wasn't pointing at this guy, just a general statement. Perhaps he is not a fraud like them, or perhaps not. *yawn*

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Thats how all such people are that I have come across. Its an extremely consistent observation in my life. But I wasn't pointing at this guy, just a general statement. Perhaps he is not a fraud like them, or perhaps not. *yawn*

i was abt to post a reply but i got high :D

or because i am high all the time.. i love that stuff.. ;)

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siratunaliyuhaqqun: A hadith can be for a different issue and different person and different circumstance. The marjas understand the essence behind the hadith and apply it to current situations. Your argument about their reasoning being flawed is not correct. Even though it is possible, but practically speaking it makes no difference. When YOU listen to a ma'soom (as) you are also using your reasoning and applying his words to your situation. So this proves that reasoning is actually necessary. Our chances of misunderstanding the hadith is higher than the marja misunderstanding the hadith. Think of it as specialization of labour. You will only be making fun of the ma'soom (as) if you take his words literally and not understand the message the ma'soom (as) is giving. I can further prove this.

I know there are contexts which you need yo understand and a momin can only understand it. I seriously believe that and Allah is the only guide and He guides whom He wills. You dont need specialist skill as it is suggested by Quran that This book is a hidayath only for mutaqeen. And you know what, love of Imam Ali a.s is taqwa.

Get in to the Akbari thread for further discussion in general.

Ya Ali Madad

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(salam)

I bear witness that there is no god except Allah, and I bear witness that Muhammed is His servant and His messenger.

'Aliyun waly Allah, simple as that.

But what would you do when the rijaal is Sahih

Ya Ali Moula you are my Rabb in Wilayat and Itaat

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Of course Ali(as) is Rab of the universe

Every Imam is Rab which means He has control of the universe Every thing is in His control

He is the one who distributes Rizq, Life, Death and every matter related to universe.

Allah is Al-Rab. which means He has control over all the universe and on the Imams as well.

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He is the one who distributes Rizq, Life, Death and every matter related to universe.

Allah (swt) is the One who controls over these matters, and as Ahlulbayt (as) teach us to say:

My Lord, whatever You have destined for me up to tbe end of my life, whether concerning the open aspect of my life or the hidden aspect of it, is bound to come. What is to my advantage and what is to my disadvantage - all my losses and gains are in Your hand, not in the hand of anybody else.

My Lord, if You deprive me, who else will provide me; and if You let me down, who else will help me?

This is going to extreme, to prove this view, you have to show proof from Quran and Mutawatir hadiths, otherwise, no one can adopt such a view, this Ghul (going to extreme) in the deen and is not out of love of Imams (as) but out of love of self which is the source of Ghul.

I guess you also pray to Ali (as) to change your heart, etc???

Edited by Link

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we have some hadiths that mention that people who thought just like you, and called Ali rabb etc.

Imam Ali AS burned them, all of them and the Imams AS cursed them.

it is reported that Imam Ali Ibn Husain (as) said:

"May the curse of Allah be upon those who tell lies about us. I

mentioned Abdullah Ibn Saba and each hair in my body stood up, Allah

cursed him. Ali (as) was, by Allah, a proper servant of Allah, the

brother of the Messenger of Allah (PBUH&HF). He did not earn the

graciousness/honor from Allah except with the obedience to Allah and

His Messenger. And (similarly) the Messenger of Allah (PBUH&HF) did

not earn the honor from Allah except with his obedience to Allah."

(Rijal, by al-KuShshi)

"As he (Aba Abdillah - Ja'far al-Sadiq) was telling his companions in

the subject of Abdullah Ibn Saba and that he claimed in Godness of The

Commander of Believers, Ali Ibn Abi Talib. He said: When he claimed

that in Ali, he asked him to repent and he refused, so he burnt him

with fire." (Rijal, by al-Kushshi)

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This thread is just waiting to be read by a Wahabi.

And then they use the contents of this thread to represent Shi'ism, as if the filth spewed here represents Shi'a Islam. Everything from Ali is rabb to Ali is the distributor of life, death and all matters of the universe. Some of you really need to go back to Islam. This exaggeration led to the execution of people who held similar beliefs.

I just hope that a Wahhabi doesn't hate Shi'a Islam because of a thread like this. I have no problem with someone hating me for my beliefs, but they should at the very least understand what my beliefs are without associating me with such filth.

we have some hadiths that mention that people who thought just like you, and called Ali rabb etc.

Imam Ali AS burned them, all of them and the Imams AS cursed them.

it is reported that Imam Ali Ibn Husain (as) said:

"May the curse of Allah be upon those who tell lies about us. I

mentioned Abdullah Ibn Saba and each hair in my body stood up, Allah

cursed him. Ali (as) was, by Allah, a proper servant of Allah, the

brother of the Messenger of Allah (PBUH&HF). He did not earn the

graciousness/honor from Allah except with the obedience to Allah and

His Messenger. And (similarly) the Messenger of Allah (PBUH&HF) did

not earn the honor from Allah except with his obedience to Allah."

(Rijal, by al-KuShshi)

"As he (Aba Abdillah - Ja'far al-Sadiq) was telling his companions in

the subject of Abdullah Ibn Saba and that he claimed in Godness of The

Commander of Believers, Ali Ibn Abi Talib. He said: When he claimed

that in Ali, he asked him to repent and he refused, so he burnt him

with fire." (Rijal, by al-Kushshi)

Thank you for separating the Shi'a Muslims from the Ghulat.

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And then they use the contents of this thread to represent Shi'ism, as if the filth spewed here represents Shi'a Islam. Everything from Ali is rabb to Ali is the distributor of life, death and all matters of the universe. Some of you really need to go back to Islam. This exaggeration led to the execution of people who held similar beliefs.

I just hope that a Wahhabi doesn't hate Shi'a Islam because of a thread like this. I have no problem with someone hating me for my beliefs, but they should at the very least understand what my beliefs are without associating me with such filth.

Thank you for separating the Shi'a Muslims from the Ghulat.

Yes Yes. I agree with you and I also thank our brother form seperateing Shi'as from the Ghulaat.

Remember brothers and sisters! Ashhduanna la ilaha illullah wahdahu la shareekala wa ashhaduanna Muhammadin abduhu wa rasooloo

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This thread is just waiting to be read by a Wahabi.
We don't change our belief for fear of a wahabi.

Ya Ali Madad

Cowardly Wahabi militants, the illegitimate sons of Muawiyah and Yazid, when they kill innocent and peaceful Shia civilians, realize that its deviated extremists like yourself who have the biggest role in giving them the cause for it. While you are mostly unharmed, since you're such a small minority anyway.

This is why my cousin always says that such false Malangism was created by Muawiyah to slander Ali (as) and his followers. Who wouldn't get disgusted by an unruly bunch who don't even comb their hair, smoke/drink cannabis, keep talking about Ali all day, miss all prayers and fasts and not follow shariah, while having extremist ideas like these. They'll think the followers of Ali (as) are such. And this'll also belittle Ali's image in their naive minds.

Perhaps you really are infiltrators.

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Cowardly Wahabi militants, the illegitimate sons of Muawiyah and Yazid, when they kill innocent and peaceful Shia civilians, realize that its deviated extremists like yourself who have the biggest role in giving them the cause for it. While you are mostly unharmed, since you're such a small minority anyway.

This is why my cousin always says that such false Malangism was created by Muawiyah to slander Ali (as) and his followers. Who wouldn't get disgusted by an unruly bunch who don't even comb their hair, smoke/drink cannabis, keep talking about Ali all day, miss all prayers and fasts and not follow shariah, while having extremist ideas like these. They'll think the followers of Ali (as) are such. And this'll also belittle Ali's image in their naive minds.

Perhaps you really are infiltrators.

Brother, you have got it spot on.

Take this guy as an example of the "false shia", he calls Ali Rabb, but doesnt beleive Allah has kept the quran safe, and he doesnt beleive in the quran!

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Asalaamalaikum

Believing in tahreef doen't mean I don't believe in Quran. Al hamdollillah I believe in the book of Allah that is Al Quran.

Imam Ali a.s. is Rabb in Wilaya and Ita'a. You are similar to wahabis because they misunderstood the same way as you did.

Imam Ali a.s. is Abd Allah and me saying Imam Ali a.s. is Rabb in Wilaya and Ita'a doesn't mean that he a.s. does not have a creator.

Bunch of Fools trying to represent Shiasm

Ya Ali Madad

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