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In the Name of God بسم الله
Anonymous-Male

Define "fear Of Falling Into Sin"

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Salam,

The famous Islamic rule, so often repeated on ShiaChat is that "if there is fear of falling into sin, it becomes obligatory to get married".

Well, I'm already married...but nevertheless I find this law vague and unclear.

How do you define "fear" in this law? How do you really know whether you have fear of falling into sin or not? Does one need to have a guarantee of sexual infallibility to make sure that marriage is not obligatory on him?

Can marriage become obligatory instantaneously? For example, if a young unmarried person wants to go the supermarket, but he has fear that he wont be able to lower his gaze, does it become wajib on him to get married immediately- before he goes to the market? That would be highly impracticable. But if this is not how it is meant to be, then how does one clearly define what "fear" makes marriage wajib...and when it does become wajib, what time period is allowed to fulfil this wajib act?

Edited by Anonymous-Male

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Very good question.

This applies to the question of polygamy as well. One of the ways polygamy is justified by males on this forum is that marriage is obligatory upon those who fear they will fall into sin. By this logic, if after one wife you fear that you will fall into sin, then you must take another wife. I personally think that there will always be fear of falling into sin, even if you have the maximum number of wives. After a certain point the male just has to examine himself and realize that the problem is with him (if he is not satisfied after however many wives he gets). Temptation always exists, and people have to learn to control themselves. Some people are just never happy with what they have, and everything they see makes them fear that they will fall into sin. This applies to wealth as well. There is legitimate fear of falling into sin, and then there is taking advantage of fear of falling into sin (and using that as an excuse and a shield behind which to hide).

In all this rambling, I want to make the point that there must be a balance between self-control and using the "fear of falling into sin" to attain multiple wives.

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If one is unmarried and he feels it is likely that he will sin owing to his not having a wife then it becomes obligatory to get married. I guess when to get married depends on when you think it is likely you will sin. Sometimes people say that by the time I become 20 I dont think I will be ble to avoid sin because of being unmarried. So my guess is that in order to prevent the imminent haram you ahve to be married in time.

For the married people they ahve to lower their gaze and go to their wife/wives. It is unlikely IMO that a married man has the fear of sinning except in extraordinary circumstances like while traveling or the man makes a mistake by getting a bit too close to some non mahram. If the halal second marriage can avoid haram then I guess yes it also becomes wajib but this is taking into consideration that the man has no other option.

So for example if the man is strong and he gets too close to a non mahram then he has two halal options. One is to get married with the non mahram and make it halal and the other is to turn to his wife and control his lower self. In this case I guess its his wish.

But if the strong man is traveling and has no wife and it is likely he will sin and he doesnt have the option of his wife nor the option of holding off then I guess it becomes wajib for him to marry just like for an unmarried man.

You talked about the impracticality of marrying before supermarket :lol: well its no surprise that the ma'sooms (as) recommended young people to marry young (emphasis on the word young). Yes if the young man thinks that it is likely that owing to not being married he is likely to sin again and again until he gets married, it becomes wajib on him to marry and he has to strive to get married.

The core concept is that if a halal act prevents a haram act, logically speaking that halal act becomes wajib. Avoiding haram is wajib logically so one can avoid haram through multiple ways.

Edited by dingdong

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Thankyou for your replies.

I am looking at this law from the very literal aspect. You said that if a person thinks he is likely to sin again and again, then he must strive to get married. But technically speaking, the law does not actually state this. The law says if one is likely to sin, it is obligatory to get married. It does not mention the "frequency" of the likelihood of sinning and it also does not mention "how soon" does the obligation need to be fulfilled.

Now this may sound confusing...

Should a man assume that if he has "repeated" episodes of fear of sinning (eg, fornication) , then he should start looking for a spouse. Or should it be assumed that if a person has only a very short, brief, momentary fear that he might not be able to lower his gaze immediately and instantaneously as soon as he sees a non-mehrum, only on one particular occasion (not repeatedly), on one specific day, then it is still a must for him to get married - immediately - within minutes - one way or the other - to any woman, of any sort, that he can find, as soon as possible - even if she is a prostitute!

The rule does not elaborate which of these two lines of actions needs to be taken. The first one seems sensible and practical, but can we assume this is what Islam really wants from unmarried people? How do we know that it is not obligatory for a person to get married "instantaneously" - I mean the same day - however difficult it may be - when he develops even the slightest bit of thought in his mind that he just might not be able to keep his gaze lowered that specific day?

Suppose it is obligatory for a person to get married because he has the fear of sin. Suppose he doesnt get married, but he also doesnt fall into the sin either. Would he still be punished because he didnt get married when it was obligatory for him to do so (regardless of whether he actually fell into the sin or not)?

If someone doesnt have the means to get married, does it then become obligatory for him to have no fear of falling into sin (as otherwise he could be punished for making marriage wajib upon him when he didnt have the means to fulfil this wajib act)?

Moreover, is it really possible for someone to have "No fear of falling into sin". I believe even the Prophet(s) - who were actually infallible - never claimed that they didnt have even the fear of falling into sin. For example, Prophet Yousaf (as) said [non-verbatim] that he feared he would have fallen into sin, but it was only Allah Talla who saved him. This is in the Quran too. And yet he didnt get married for a very long time!

So how do you know when exactly do you have the fear and when you do not?

What I think is that scholars do not elaborate this law and thus every individual is left for himself to make his own interpretation of what this rule actually means. It is just very general, vague and unclear and perhaps intentionally left without any elaboration - so that people can judge for themselves what is Islamically best for them...either rushing into a spontaneous, instantaneous marriage with any woman at all (on the slightest hint of sexual desire)............OR....to think that when staying chaste is hard, then a person should gradually strive for marriage, search for a religious spouse and to not think that an instantaneous, on-the-spot marriage to the first person walking on the street, is what Islam demands from him.

But I guess there is no real way to know which line of action is the one which is actually required...simply because the rule gives no clear elaborations.

Edited by Anonymous-Male

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If you go out and see a non mahram with lust, you are supposed to lower your gaze. You have to fight your nafs to gain that control. If you are unable to lower your gaze then will marriage make it possible for you to do so? If yes marriage will prevent you from sinning then it becomes wajib and a religious duty.

Its quite logical. There are multiple ways of avoiding sins. One is abstention and controlling yourself. Another is marriage. Marriage is highly mustahab. If marriage is the only way to prevent sin then yes it becomes obligatory to get married.

You asked about instantaneous fear. Firstly will that instant marriage with whoever actually prevent the sin? Yes or no? If yes and there is no other way to prevent the sin, it becomes wajib. If no marriage is available immediately, then it is compulsory on you to control yourself. There is no other way. Dont tell me you 'cant' because you CAN. Allah doesnt test you with something you cant handle. So yes you CAN do it. I can tell you some dhikr if you want. Oh and if you think remaining indoors will prevent you sinning and theres no other way to prevent sin then dont you think you should remain indoors?

Theres this story I heard about a girl during the Iranian Revolution. Wearing hijab was not allowed and you would be shot at sight for doing so. The girl had a choice of either remaining indoors to maintain hijab and give up on univeristy and everything outdoors or give up her hijab. She chose remainging indoors. After 20 years she passed away. When her body was brought out people remembered her and during her namaz e janaza a very bright and illuminated person came from somewhere and lead that salat. After the salat he left just as he had come adn know one knew where he had come form. People say that man was Imam Mahdi (as). An alim over had recognized him and asked why He (as) hadnt come to meet him. The Imam (as) replied that if you had been our follower like the girl I would have come. Now I have HEARD this story so dont take it as authentic. But I hope you understand the message behind it.

When marriage is compulsory, it is a religious duty like Salat is a religious duty. Regardless of whether you actually fall into sin or not its wajib. Non fulfillment is a sin. It is upto Allah to punish you or forgive you. Ask for forgiveness and and give sadaqah etc.

Edited by dingdong

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Thanks for your reply. I'm already married, and Im not asking this question for any personal reason. As I pointed out in the earlier post, this law is oft-repeated on this forum, without any clear elaborations and people give varied opinions regarding the action that needs to be taken when there is fear of falling into sin. It was thus that I came up with thread. Your comments are welcome, however I pesonally am not in need of a specific advice that I should get married - because I already am. However, the majority of the people here are not married and I believe some of them do seem confused over the very exact meaning of this rule and how to balance an obligation of getting married to the general recommendations of an islamic spouse. Hence, this thread, to show my personal opinion that since there is no clear elaboration of this law, every individual would have to decide for himself when it has actually become obligatory for him to get married, and how urgent it needs to be. The law is not specific - it is general.

When marriage is compulsory, it is a religious duty like Salat is a religious duty. Regardless of whether you actually fall into sin or not its wajib. Non fulfillment is a sin

Is there any evidence to suggest that if someone has fear of falling into sin (but does not get married, and yet does not fall into the sexual sin either) he could still be punished for not getting married while having that fear? If a person has fear of sinning, but he doesnt get married the same day that he developed that fear, is that a sin in its own right? If not, then how long would it be allowed for him to get married before it becomes a sin for him to stay unmarried? I know you dont have an answer to this question........

Remember that "fear" of falling into sin, is not a sin in its own right. You cannot be punished for having the fear of falling into sin (if you do not fall into sin).

Imam Ali (as): "One who is tempted to sin does not deserve to be punished"

This shows that if a person has fear of falling into sin, and yet despite having the fear, he continue to remain patient, and doesnt get married either (for whatever reason), then it would be unjust that he gets punished - since he committed no sexual sin and remained patient.

In short, the rule actually gives us a general recommendation to get married early, but it is not exactly specific regarding that actual "frequency" of fear, the type of fear, the urgency of marriage and the selection of spouse - when there is fear of falling into sin. So each individual would have to make up the conclusion for his own self as to what Islam actually requires from him...as there can be no specific rules pointing to the exact situation of every person's life.

I hope you get what Im saying.

Edited by Anonymous-Male

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Is there any evidence to suggest that if someone has fear of falling into sin (but does not get married, and yet does not fall into the sexual sin either) he could still be punished for not getting married while having that fear?

The proof is logical.

Fear of sinning = obligatory marriage

obligatory marriage = religious duty

religious duty not fulfilled = sin

sin = POSSIBLE punishment

Allah is Merciful. Insha Allah He will forgive generously.

If a person has fear of sinning, but he doesnt get married the same day that he developed that fear, is that a sin in its own right? If not, then how long would it be allowed for him to get married before it becomes a sin for him to stay unmarried?

Let me to tell you form what I understand of the law. If you fear sinning in the short term, then avoidance of the sin is wajib in short term thus get married in short term. The point is if your fear is sinning after a few years, then get married in within a few years time. The aim is avoiding sin. So depending on how quickly you think the sin will take place, thats how quickly you should get married. In short get married in time.

Remember that "fear" of falling into sin, is not a sin in its own right. You cannot be punished for having the fear of falling into sin (if you do not fall into sin).

True. But non fulfillment of the religious duty is a sin. Committing sins and Allah punishing you for those sins are two different things. We ahve to avoid sinning regardless of whether Allah punishes us or not.

This shows that if a person has fear of falling into sin, and yet despite having the fear, he continue to remain patient, and doesnt get married either (for whatever reason), then it would be unjust that he gets punished - since he committed no sexual sin and remained patient.

Falling into a sexual sin and not marrying when its wajib are two different sins. To avoid sins, one can be patient or he can marry or whatever. He can choose any of these. But the end result should be no sins.

Simply put brother, this ruling isnt very confusing. Its very logical. You HAVE to avoid sins. HOW you avoid sins is upto you. When the only way of avoiding sins is marriage then logically it becomes compulsory.

If you are already married, then you should lower your gaze and turn to your wife. One should have enough control over himself that he can atleast lower his gaze. What if the person is staring at an already married lady. The person can not marry her so the only way to avoid the sin of looking is to lower the gaze or avoid getting into such situations or whatever. Marriage in this case is not a valid method of avoiding sins.

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Define "fear Of Falling Into Sin", What does it really mean?

In simple words, wanting to masturbate and.or fornicate, with the possibility that one will not be able to resisit the urge.

The same intensity of urge would apply to stealing, robbery, murder, etc, etc.

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Assalam o elikum,

Fear of sinning = obligatory marriage

This law is based on the assumption that it is possible for that person to get married. But in this world, it is not possible for everyone to get married. Islam acknowledges this fact and it does not enforce marriage upon a person who has no means to do so. The Quran says...

And let those who do not find the means to marry......(24:33)

The Prophet(s) too acknowledges that marriage is not possible for everyone. His statement is a proof that not everyone can afford marriage:

"O young people! Those of you who can afford it, should get married..."

So one interpretation of this ruling would be that if a person who cannot get married develops the fear of sinning, then it ofcourse not obligatory for him to get married, rather it is obligatory for him to be patient.

Another point in this rule would be that although marriage can become an obligation, there is no maximum time limit set by Islam to complete the obligation, rather a generalized recommendation is to get married early. This is a major difference between salat and marriage - both can be obligatory, but the prior has to be read within a specified time, while in case of marriage - the obligation would be to get married as soon as one is able to get married and is able to find an Islamically suitable match - but without any time restrictions.

If a person is pious, he would have fear of sinning on one hand, but he would also have the hope of Allah's protection on the other hand. Now, although marriage would be incumbent upon him by law (since he has the fear), he cannot actually be held responsible for any crime until and unless he actually falls into sin. It would be against Allah mercy and justice that He would punish someone only because he had the fear of sinning and didnt/couldnt get married and yet didnt fall in that sin either.

Different individuals can interpret this ruling in differnet manners. Some very pious people would consider even the desire to sin as being equivalent to the fear of sinning. They would consider getting married as compulsory for themselves, even though in reality they are so poius that they would never even venture close to any sin. On the other hand, are the not-so-pious people, would after falling into the sins repeatedly, would consider that marriage has become necessary for them. At the fartheset extreme would be those who fall into sin so often that neither do they have any fear, nor would they care if marriage is an obligation for them. Therefore, when and how soon and to whom you should get married to, when marriage becomes obligatory would vary from person to person and every individual would have to make his own personal, unbiased decisions in this case. Allah Talla would look at your intention, and then look at your actions.

It is just possible that an individual could be rewarded by Allah for delaying his marriage (to find the right spouse) and continuing to show patience, despite having the constant fear of sin that had made marriage incumbent upon him in the first place!

One more point: Marriage and sexual patience are not mutually exclusive. And fear of sinning is something independant of marital status. Married individuals may find themselves just as vulnerable to the pangs of devil as any unmarried person does. Patience is therefore a part and parcel of a muslim's entire lifetime, irrespective of his marital status.

In the end, Allah Talla is aware of the condition of his people and He is not unjust and will not punish anyone for crime he hasnt committed. Plus He has himself told us that "actions are judged by intentions", so if the intention is right, you could highly be rewarded even if you continue to remain unmarried (despite having the fear), or you could be punished even if you get married early (for unislamic reasons). It is all subjective - and Allah is the best of the judges!

Edited by Miqdad Zaidi

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Hey why is it only talking about sexual sin here.Masturbating and fornication....What about if one fear to do ANOTHER big sin if she or he doesn't get married.....Leaving islam f.ex.For a convert it's kinda hard to be muslim alone without muslim family.A husband and having kids with him will be only muslim family she has.Family of origin will not help her with anything.If she has weak iman and fear losing it and leave islam isn't it then kinda wajib on her to get married..I have this problem and feel it sooooo haaaaaard to practice islam totally alone.Being with sisters doesn't help me cause they don't LIVE with me.Besides those in hussainia ignore me anyway.I feel only chance i have to continue being muslim is to get married.I know to be a muslim has nothing to do with having a muslim husband or not,but the relationship with Allah.The problem is that it is very haaard to be muslim alone.Nobody to fast with,celebrate eid with,pray with....One who is born as muslim and raised as one doesn't have same problem as a convert.Many have left islam cause of divorce causwe it has been difficult for them to go on by themselves.Some manages it yes but all are not the same.I don't have same knowledge as those in hussainia to raise my daughter to be a good mo'min. :cry: To that i need help from a husband who knows more than me...

Edited by ummleyla

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This law is based on the assumption that it is possible for that person to get married. But in this world, it is not possible for everyone to get married. Islam acknowledges this fact and it does not enforce marriage upon a person who has no means to do so. The Quran says...

And let those who do not find the means to marry......(24:33)

Your translation is false and illogical and contrary to the other sources. The translation can be like this:

And let those who cannot find a match keep chaste till Allah give them independence by His grace.....

The ayah means that you have to remain chaste if you cant find a match not that you dontahve money to marry. The money argument is probably the weakest in trying to delay marriage.

The Prophet(s) too acknowledges that marriage is not possible for everyone. His statement is a proof that not everyone can afford marriage:

"O young people! Those of you who can afford it, should get married..."

Even this is incorrect. AFAIK the real hadith says Those of you who can bear the responsibility NOT afford marriage.

So one interpretation of this ruling would be that if a person who cannot get married develops the fear of sinning, then it ofcourse not obligatory for him to get married, rather it is obligatory for him to be patient.

It becomes obligatory on him to avoid sin but how he does that is upto him. He can be patient or if marriage stops the sin then he can do marriage if he chooses. It is only obligatory to be patient when one can not find a match as the ayah above says.

Another point in this rule would be that although marriage can become an obligation, there is no maximum time limit set by Islam to complete the obligation, rather a generalized recommendation is to get married early. This is a major difference between salat and marriage - both can be obligatory, but the prior has to be read within a specified time, while in case of marriage - the obligation would be to get married as soon as one is able to get married and is able to find an Islamically suitable match - but without any time restrictions.

The rulings clearly says WAJIB but you say its a recommendation. :wacko: It can be confirmed with the mujtahideen that this is a general wajibat and it is upto the person how he does but logically speaking its obvious that the wajib marriage should be done before the sin occurs.

If a person is pious, he would have fear of sinning on one hand, but he would also have the hope of Allah's protection on the other hand. Now, although marriage would be incumbent upon him by law (since he has the fear), he cannot actually be held responsible for any crime until and unless he actually falls into sin. It would be against Allah mercy and justice that He would punish someone only because he had the fear of sinning and didnt/couldnt get married and yet didnt fall in that sin either.

Not fulfilling a *religious duty* is a sin by itself. Whether or not he actually sins, the marriage is still wajib on him as the person doesnt know the future. Failure to do the wajib marriage is a sin but whether or not Allah takes us to task for it is upto Him and it is not for us to judge whether He will or not.

Different individuals can interpret this ruling in differnet manners. Some very pious people would consider even the desire to sin as being equivalent to the fear of sinning. They would consider getting married as compulsory for themselves, even though in reality they are so poius that they would never even venture close to any sin.

The ma'sooms (as) were extremely pious but they had desires. They didnt think there desires were equal to fear of sinning. Also becoming pious doesnt mean a person becomes blind in the head. The person clearly knows that he has the desire but its not possible for him to go near the sin so there is no likelihood of him sinning so theres no fear of sinning.

On the other hand, are the not-so-pious people, would after falling into the sins repeatedly, would consider that marriage has become necessary for them.

Again a person just needs to think clearly and logically.

It is just possible that an individual could be rewarded by Allah for delaying his marriage (to find the right spouse) and continuing to show patience, despite having the constant fear of sin that had made marriage incumbent upon him in the first place!

If a person is able to practice patience, then HOW does marriage become wajib on him in the first place? If he has th constant fear in the short term then he is sinning by not marrying when he has the opportunity even if the spouse is loose or Ahlul kitab etc. On the other hand if the fear of sinning is long term then that means that in the short term patience is allowed and marriage isnt wajib in the short term.

One more point: Marriage and sexual patience are not mutually exclusive. And fear of sinning is something independant of marital status. Married individuals may find themselves just as vulnerable to the pangs of devil as any unmarried person does. Patience is therefore a part and parcel of a muslim's entire lifetime, irrespective of his marital status.

For those with a wife, the masooms (as) have AFAIK recommended the men to turn to their wives when they see a non mahram or something.

In the end, Allah Talla is aware of the condition of his people and He is not unjust and will not punish anyone for crime he hasnt committed. Plus He has himself told us that "actions are judged by intentions", so if the intention is right, you could highly be rewarded even if you continue to remain unmarried (despite having the fear), or you could be punished even if you get married early (for unislamic reasons). It is all subjective - and Allah is the best of the judges!

Yes He wont punish us for a crime not committed. But is refraining from a wajib marriage not a sin? How can one be rewarded for not doing the wajib? And would you please tell me what these unIslamic reasons are for early marriage?

ummeleyla:

Your case is interesting. You know what? Its possibly wajib on you to migrate to somewhere else. Read this and the next two pages:

http://sistani.org/local.php?modules=nav&a...53&pid=2239

Try reading some books and stuff. I recommend Essence of Life by Allamah Majlisi. I think the english translation is a simplified form maybe. If you cant find a hardcopy, I can give you a digital copy online.

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Your translation is false and illogical and contrary to the other sources. The translation can be like this:

The ayah means that you have to remain chaste if you cant find a match not that you dontahve money to marry. The money argument is probably the weakest in trying to delay marriage.

Even this is incorrect. AFAIK the real hadith says Those of you who can bear the responsibility NOT afford marriage.

It becomes obligatory on him to avoid sin but how he does that is upto him. He can be patient or if marriage stops the sin then he can do marriage if he chooses. It is only obligatory to be patient when one can not find a match as the ayah above says.

The rulings clearly says WAJIB but you say its a recommendation. :wacko: It can be confirmed with the mujtahideen that this is a general wajibat and it is upto the person how he does but logically speaking its obvious that the wajib marriage should be done before the sin occurs.

Not fulfilling a *religious duty* is a sin by itself. Whether or not he actually sins, the marriage is still wajib on him as the person doesnt know the future. Failure to do the wajib marriage is a sin but whether or not Allah takes us to task for it is upto Him and it is not for us to judge whether He will or not.

The ma'sooms (as) were extremely pious but they had desires. They didnt think there desires were equal to fear of sinning. Also becoming pious doesnt mean a person becomes blind in the head. The person clearly knows that he has the desire but its not possible for him to go near the sin so there is no likelihood of him sinning so theres no fear of sinning.

Again a person just needs to think clearly and logically.

If a person is able to practice patience, then HOW does marriage become wajib on him in the first place? If he has th constant fear in the short term then he is sinning by not marrying when he has the opportunity even if the spouse is loose or Ahlul kitab etc. On the other hand if the fear of sinning is long term then that means that in the short term patience is allowed and marriage isnt wajib in the short term.

For those with a wife, the masooms (as) have AFAIK recommended the men to turn to their wives when they see a non mahram or something.

Yes He wont punish us for a crime not committed. But is refraining from a wajib marriage not a sin? How can one be rewarded for not doing the wajib? And would you please tell me what these unIslamic reasons are for early marriage?

ummeleyla:

Your case is interesting. You know what? Its possibly wajib on you to migrate to somewhere else. Read this and the next two pages:

http://sistani.org/local.php?modules=nav&a...53&pid=2239

Try reading some books and stuff. I recommend Essence of Life by Allamah Majlisi. I think the english translation is a simplified form maybe. If you cant find a hardcopy, I can give you a digital copy online.

I was thinking about that too but it is a bit difficult for me at the moment cause of my 2 oldest kids...Was thinking about Iran or Egypt(I have been in Egypt twice and love it there).But despite where I am,Norway,Iran or Egypt if I am not married it will be dificult anyway.Don't know enough to teach my youngest daughter anything.And how to teach her.Even I try to teach my oldest daughter that it is haram to watch High school musical cause it encourage to have boyfriends and stuff and has a lot of music she doesn't listen to me.She uses hijab though but that's all thanks to her dad who is deeply religious. We are not married now.We divorced 6 years ago.I wish i could have possibility to move.I will marry soon inshallah but...I am afraid that when he comes here he will be western.He isn't as strict as he was before and I fear it will be worse if he comes here.......I fear it cause of something he has said...

Edited by ummleyla

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AFAIK the real hadith says Those of you who can bear the responsibility NOT afford marriage

You are quite mistaken if you believe that Islam gives no importance to financial stability in regards to marraige. Ofcourse, one should not avoid marriage out of fear of poverty. However, this doesnt mean that a person who has absolutely no means of even supporting himself, should go and get married. For example, if a person is homeless, Islam would not advice him to get married. Instead, he first has to find a home and then get a spouse.

When Imam Ali(as) wanted to marry Hazrat Fatima(as), the Prophet(s) first asked him to arrange for a separate house. Uptil that time, Imam Ali(as) used to share a house with someone else. It is therefore very logical that "finances", "mahr" etc. are a very important consideration in marriage. So you are mistaken in ignoring this important aspect.

Failure to do the wajib marriage is a sin

Deliberately avoiding marriage when there is fear of sin, may be a sin in its own right. But many people who dont get married, are not those who delibaretly avoid marriage. Is this point too hard for you too understand. The Quran and the Prophet(s) acknowledge and highlight to us that "many" people really cannot get married. Their reasons are genuine and Islamically acceptable. Islam does not hold such people responsible for not getting married because it is not something in their own control.

If you cannot bare the responsiblity of marriage...then you cannot be punished for not getting married.

If none will accept your proposal, then you cannot be punished for staying unmarried.

These things are beyond human control and it is against divine justice to make something wajib upon a person who is not able to perform that act.

If these people sin, they cannot be punished for not getting married, rather they may be punished for not being patient.

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SalamAlikum,

Interesting topic.

I think logically speaking, if a person has fear of falling into sin, he has to "TRY" to get married. Whether he can get married or not, is a separate issue because like everything, our marriage is also in Allah's hands and in the end it is He who decides when we can get married.

As long as one one makes the effort to find a life-partner, then he/she is inshaAllah as good as a married person himself, even if he is unable to get married for a long time. If he sins while being unmarried, then Allah (swt) will surely take into account that he had been "trying" to get married (but was as yet unmarried due to unavoidable circumstances).

All people who are unmarried despite having the "fear of sinning" cannot be categorized into one single group of people who are sinning simply by staying unmarried. Only Allah (swt) can decide whether someone is at fault by staying unmarried after developing the fear of sin. This is not for us to decide because only Allah (swt) knows the exact conditions and intentions of a person.

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You are quite mistaken if you believe that Islam gives no importance to financial stability in regards to marraige. Ofcourse, one should not avoid marriage out of fear of poverty. However, this doesnt mean that a person who has absolutely no means of even supporting himself, should go and get married. For example, if a person is homeless, Islam would not advice him to get married. Instead, he first has to find a home and then get a spouse.

Whether or not Islam places an importance on financial stability (define it), it is quite wrong to use the financial argument in todays world.

Rizq has been guaranteed by Allah. What more basic stability are you looking for? Its wrong to say financial stability is defined as having a large luxurious house, permanent six figure salary job, two or more cars etc.

Are you suddenly going to end up on the streets if you get married? Surely Allah has given YOU rizq. Allah also gives rizq to the girl. Both of you receive rizq through different sources. Is it so hard for Allah to give you both rizq through one source?

Secondly from the Economics point of view, we are specialized in our work. Meaning that we humans as a whole are producing more than we did years ago. This means that each person has more resources and buying power. So that clearly means that financial worry is less of a problem.

Most shias IMO have a house, food and the basics. Surely they can accommodate one extra person. So the financial stability thing is very rare or unlikely in todays world. If a person is in extreme poverty (which will be due to wrong distribution done by humans not Allah), that person I doubt will be thinking of marriage. Heck even the folk in third world countries get married even though they are below the poverty line.

When Imam Ali(as) wanted to marry Hazrat Fatima(as), the Prophet(s) first asked him to arrange for a separate house. Uptil that time, Imam Ali(as) used to share a house with someone else. It is therefore very logical that "finances", "mahr" etc. are a very important consideration in marriage. So you are mistaken in ignoring this important aspect.

Yes Imam Ali (as) was very poor and that didnt stop him from marrying. His example is actually against the money argument. Everyone has SOME resources which he can use to get married and if he doesnt, what are we shias doing sitting at home in luxury?

Deliberately avoiding marriage when there is fear of sin, may be a sin in its own right. But many people who dont get married, are not those who delibaretly avoid marriage. Is this point too hard for you too understand. The Quran and the Prophet(s) acknowledge and highlight to us that "many" people really cannot get married. Their reasons are genuine and Islamically acceptable. Islam does not hold such people responsible for not getting married because it is not something in their own control.

I understand this point perfectly. I am one such example. Yes the ayah even says that those who cannot find a match. When marrige is wajib a person should go out of the way and against the norms if he has to. So many arguments against marriage have to be ignored as one does not ahve a choice in the matter.

If you cannot bare the responsiblity of marriage...then you cannot be punished for not getting married.

I guess one reason why Allah made muta halal is for such situations. And I wonder how Allah is testing us with a test we can not bear? It sounds illogical.

Allah does not test us more than we can bear.

Allah does not make the impossible wajib.

You say that marriage is impossible if you cant bear the responsibility. (you do right?)

So if you cant bear the responsibility and marriage is wajib so that means something impossible is wajib. Which is just plain illogical.

Surely something is wrong with how WE perceive marriage not with Allah's command.

If none will accept your proposal, then you cannot be punished for staying unmarried.

True. In that case patience becomes wajib. And surely Allah helps those who do jihad an nafs.

As long as one one makes the effort to find a life-partner, then he/she is inshaAllah as good as a married person himself, even if he is unable to get married for a long time.

You dont need to find a life partner. In dangerous cases muta should be used if necessary.

If he sins while being unmarried, then Allah (swt) will surely take into account that he had been "trying" to get married (but was as yet unmarried due to unavoidable circumstances).

Wont patience become wajib in these cases?

All people who are unmarried despite having the "fear of sinning" cannot be categorized into one single group of people who are sinning simply by staying unmarried. Only Allah (swt) can decide whether someone is at fault by staying unmarried after developing the fear of sin. This is not for us to decide because only Allah (swt) knows the exact conditions and intentions of a person.

Tell me is a person not praying wajib salat a sinner or is it for Allah to decide? Allah can forgive his sin but the fact remains he is a sinner. Similarly wajib marriage is a 'religious duty' according to Ayatollah Sistani and not fulfilling it IS a sin and whether or not Allah forgives it is a separate issue. Yes Allah is the one to decide whether something is a sin or not and he has told us it is a sin. :)

Edited by dingdong

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Similarly wajib marriage is a 'religious duty' according to Ayatollah Sistani and not fulfilling it IS a sin

Yes, but first you also have to know the reason why he is "not fulfilling" this duty. For example, if he is trying hard to find a match, but he has not been successful uptil yet, then he would still be unmarried. So would you say he is sinning because he is unmarried? I have seen also people who are so poor that they dont even have enough money for a single meal. There are also people in this world who are homeless and cannot even afford living under shelter. People like that do exist in this world.

A person having such a miserable life cannot be guilty of any sin, soley because he is unmarried. Ofcourse, the majority of people we know are not of this type. Allah has blessed them with all the necessaties of life, however, it would wrong to assume every single person on this earth is capable of marriage. People who are disabelled or have some terminal illnesses can find it hard to find anyone who will agree to marry them. Do you think these people are sinning by not getting married, if they have fear of sin?

So if you cant bear the responsibility and marriage is wajib so that means something impossible is wajib. Which is just plain illogical. Surely something is wrong with how WE perceive marriage not with Allah's command.

Allah's command is that if you have fear of sinning, then get married. And if you cannot get married, then stay chaste. This proves that if someone cannot get married, Allah will not blame him for his unmarried life.

In short, my point of view: When a person truly cannot get married (due to inevitable conditions), then it is not a sin for him to be unmarried, even if he has the fear of falling into haram. His duty is to try to get married and be patient till marriage is possible. But if he is unsuccessful in getting married for any reason, then it is not his fault and we should not consider that it is a sin for him to be unmarried (especially when he is being patient and not falling into any sexual haram). I think we can agree to this!

Edited by How strange

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Yes, but first you also have to know the reason why he is "not fulfilling" this duty. For example, if he is trying hard to find a match, but he has not been successful uptil yet, then he would still be unmarried. So would you say he is sinning because he is unmarried? I have seen also people who are so poor that they dont even have enough money for a single meal. There are also people in this world who are homeless and cannot even afford living under shelter. People like that do exist in this world.

A person having such a miserable life cannot be guilty of any sin, soley because he is unmarried. Ofcourse, the majority of people we know are not of this type. Allah has blessed them with all the necessaties of life, however, it would wrong to assume every single person on this earth is capable of marriage. People who are disabelled or have some terminal illnesses can find it hard to find anyone who will agree to marry them. Do you think these people are sinning by not getting married, if they have fear of sin?

I agree completely with you. What is wrong is people (upon whom marriage is wajib) trying to crush their desires and not get married for false reasons.

Allah's command is that if you have fear of sinning, then get married. And if you cannot get married, then stay chaste. This proves that if someone cannot get married, Allah will not blame him for his unmarried life.

True.

In short, my point of view: When a person truly cannot get married (due to inevitable conditions), then it is not a sin for him to be unmarried, even if he has the fear of falling into haram. His duty is to try to get married and be patient till marriage is possible. But if he is unsuccessful in getting married for any reason, then it is not his fault and we should not consider that it is a sin for him to be unmarried (especially when he is being patient and not falling into any sexual haram). I think we can agree to this!

yup I agree. But surely Allah wont test someone with something impossible so a person should not think he cant control his desires.

Edited by dingdong

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Some things, like this for instance, are left vague for a reason. The person themselves is the only one who really knows how a certain situation will affect him.

There is such a wide range of reactions amoung brothers, that it is practically impossible to give a hard and fast (i didn't mean it like that :angry: ) rule for everyone. Sin is a downward spiral. Once you commit one sin, it is easier to commit the next one and the next, until you become fasiq (a sinful person).

No man, except a masoom, is perfect with regards to lowering the gaze. There are just so many spectacularly beautiful women around, you would have to constantly be looking at the floor in order to follow this order of Allah(s.w.a) perfectly, and then you would constantly be bumping into things.

From what I have learned, 'fear of falling into sin' means fear of being sucked into the whirlpool of sin, the downward spiral, not an isolated incident of sin which is not intentional. Some people can stand on the edge of the whirlpool (or a better description is a black hole) and feel like their ok (even though in actuality they are not). Some don't feel ok, even standing on the edge. It is personal judgement and common sense. Noone can give you an exact formula.

You have to know yourself (I know you said you're not asking for yourself, I'm just talking in general).

I was told once by someone much more knowledgeable than myself that once you begin to think of major sins like looking at pornography, masturbation, zina, etc as 'not that big of a deal' (whether you are actually doing them or not), then it's wajib for you to get married. Having that opinion means one's taqwa is reduced to a dangerous level, a level where becoming fasiq is a good possibility.

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alsalam alaikum

Miqdad Zaidi:

you have brought a hadeeth and a verse, the verse is mistranslated and the hadeeth i also hihgy suspect that you mistranslated also////

And let those who do not find the means to marry......(24:33)

the propr translation is "and let those who do not find marriage be clean"

The Prophet(s) too acknowledges that marriage is not possible for everyone. His statement is a proof that not everyone can afford marriage:

"O young people! Those of you who can afford it, should get married..."

also this hadeeth the prophet is not talking about affording money but he is talking abuot the ability to get marriied , the version i have is like this:

"O' young people! If one of you is capable of marrying, then do it, because it is good for your eyes (not to stare at women) and protects your private parts (to remain more pious). Reference: Mustadrak Wasa'il-ush Shi'ah, vol.14, p.153

As you see the hadeeth is not talkign about financial ability or supporting the finanncial and material dogma that our culture has created. whenh you say "can not afford" you give that impression and that impression would contradict the hadeeth of the prophet:

" whoever left marriage afraid from financial stress then they he made an evil suspecion about gods generousity"

Abu hadi:

No man, except a masoom, is perfect with regards to lowering the gaze. There are just so many spectacularly beautiful women around, you would have to constantly be looking at the floor in order to follow this order of Allah(s.w.a) perfectly, and then you would constantly be bumping into things.

Your interpretation of the religious law is wrong… the law doesn’t say "you must not look" but it says "you must not look with Shahwa (pleasure and desire) "

If you look at naked people without desire because they made their self naked infront of you then you don’t get sins

If you are not satisfied you would never be able to look at naked women without desire… so you have to stop looking….

Imam baqir was being set up where two people conspired to fornicate in front of him and make it look like a rape and then he gets called in and says it’s a rape then you show that its fornication and make him a false witness

When he was called he said “ I saw a stomach pulling and a back pushing and I don’t know which information is more useful”

This means he was looking….

I tell you how you can look at naked people without desire and sin??? You get married… one two three and four wives

The prophet says:

"O' young people! If one of you is capable of marrying, then do it, because it is good for your eyes (not to stare at women) and protects your private parts (to remain more pious). Reference: Mustadrak Wasa'il-ush Shi'ah, vol.14, p.153

I recently sent a fatwa to khaminae’s office:

Alsalaam alaikum

1) The Holy Prophet said:

"O' young people! If one of you is capable of marrying, then do it, because it is good for your eyes (not to stare at women) and protects your private parts (to remain more pious). Reference: Mustadrak Wasa'il-ush Shi'ah, vol.14, p.153

Now the question is as follows: For a man who is married to one wife but keeps committing the fornication of the eyes (looking at other women other than his wife) and he does not stop this action until he takes another wife or wives, does polygyny become wajib (obligatory) on him as a protection measure in this case?

2) The Common Known rule is that if the man is afraid from falling into sin or actually falls into sin without the marriage then marriage becomes wajib (compulsry) on him... Is this rule talking about the first marriage only or it includes the second to fourth marriage as well having in mind that he is still afraid from potential sin or is actually indulged in sin ?

3) If you answered No to both of the above questions then can you please tell us under which circumstances does the second and/or the third marriage becomes wajib (compulsry) ?

Answer:

Salamun `alaykum wa Rahmatullahi wa Barakatuhu.

The answer is as follows:

Bismihi Ta`ala

In general, if the only way to avoid committing a sinful act is to marry, it becomes obligatory and in this regard there is no difference between first and second marriage.

With prayers for your success,

wassalam.

Reference picture below

post-20842-1218596899_thumb.jpg

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"O' young people! If one of you is capable of marrying, then do it...

This hadith shows that the Prophet(saw) knew that not everyone is capable of marriage. Now the question is, what sort of people did the Prophet(saw) have in mind who would fit the criterion of incapability to get married? You say the Prophet(s) did not mean financial aspect. Ok, then what sort of people are those whom the Prophet considers incapable of marriage.

Whenever a person who fits the Prophet's criterion of incapability of marriage, develops fear of sinning, it cannot be wajib upon him to get married. Otherwise, it would mean that on one hand Islam makes it wajib on him to get married, and on the other hand the Prophet knows that person is incapable of getting married. This is a dillema, but there are no dillemas in Islam. So the only way out is to believe that if one is unable to get married (with a genuine reason that the Prophet would accept), then it is wajib on him to be patient, and not wajib to get married.

When a man complained to the Prophet of his inability to get married, he did not order him to get married no matter what. Instead, he asked him to fast and be patient. This too shows not everyone can get married.

And would you please tell me what these unIslamic reasons are for early marriage?

Getting married early, but for the wrong reasons is very unislamic. It is better to wait for a religious spouse than to get married to a non-religious spouse and for such un-islamic reason, as depicted in the Hadith of the Prophet:

"Whoever marries a woman solely for her power and position, Allah will only increase him in humiliation. Whoever marries a woman solely for her wealth, Allah will only increase him in poverty. Whoever marries a woman because of her beauty, Allah will only increase him in ugliness."

Edited by Miqdad Zaidi

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(salam)

If a person has "fear of falling into sin", it may partly be his own fault, because Allah (swt) has given us the strength to control our fear by remaining patient. As long as one follows the guidelines for unmarried people, he will have no fear because Allah (swt) will Himself protect him.

It is better for us to have no fear of falling into haram, by remaining patient, and then to marry someone who is religious - rather than disregarding the laws of Islam, thus developing the fear of sinning, and then being forced to marry in a haste, to someone not religious.

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On 8/7/2008 at 9:40 PM, dingdong said:

When the only way of avoiding sins is marriage then logically it becomes compulsory.

If a man thinks that marriage is the only way for him to avoid sins, but he is unable to get married, does it become permissible for him to commit some sexual sins? Of course not. 

This means that Islam tells us that we must never think that marriage is the only way to avoid sins. It is one of the ways, not the only. Anyone who thinks he has fear of falling into sin because of being married is required to adopt either marriage or patience - he is still not allowed to sin at all - no matter how big his fear may be. This means marriage is not considered as the only way to remain chaste in Islam. Sexual patience before marriage is an achievable target and anyone who thinks he cannot avoid sins before marriage is questioning the law of Allah. 

Edited by Anonymous-Male

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On 8/13/2008 at 4:08 AM, alimohamad40 said:

In general, if the only way to avoid committing a sinful act is to marry, it becomes obligatory

If an unmarried person feels that marriage is the only way for him to avoid sin, but he is unable to get married,  would he be permitted to sin? If not, then it means his original feeling that marriage was the only way to avoid sin is not valid. 

Islam tells us there are two ways to avoid sin: either marriage or patience. So, are unmarried people even allowed to think that patience is not an option for them and marriage is the only option? 

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