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Aabiss_Shakari

Hazrat Ali (as) Versus Shaikhain Before Quran

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Guest Zahrah

(bismillah)

I have found sth that I enjoy a lot. I love this. One verse about ImamHussain:

[037:107]and We ransomed him with a great sacrifice.

Suyuti in Dor Almanthur says this cerse ia about Imam Hussain A's being killed in karbala.

I saw a clergy man was talking about this ayah in TV, and learned about it. He said if you pay attention, it does not say ãÐÈæÍò ÚÙیã or the great slaughtered but ÐÈÍò ÚÙیã the great sacrifice, which means the action is great, the way it is slaughtered is great.

Çáåی ˜å ÝÏÇی ÇãÇã ãÙáæãã ÈÔã. :cry:

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Guest Zahrah

(bismillah)

This verse is about 'Aisha and Hafza [66:4]

"Åä ÊÊæÈÇ Çáی Çááå ÝÞÏ ÕÛÊ ÞáæȘãÇ æ Åä ÊÙÇåÑÇ Úáیåö ÝÅäø ÇÇááåó åæ ãæáÇåõ æ ÌÈÑیáõ æ ÕÇáÍ ÇáãÄãäیäó æ ÇáãáÇÆ˜É ÈÚÏ ÐᘠÙåیÑÇð"

"If you two (wives of the Prophet SAWW) turn in repentance to Allah, (it will be better for you) your hearts are indeed so inclined (to oppose what the Prophet SAWW likes), but if help one another against him (Muhammad SAWW), then verily, Allah is his Maula (Lord, or Master, or Protector, etc.), and the Jibrael (Gabriel), and the righteous among believers, and furthermore, the angels are his helpers."1

66:4

{(1) the verses of Tahrim surah indicated that these people who have committed sin(s) are Prophet SAWW's wives}

This verse and preceding and proceeding verses express a sin, or some sins the effect of which won't be cleansed after repentance. The phrase "your hearts are indeed so inclined" clearly confirms that even repentance won't clear the effect of that sin from the heart of these wives; while, if the repentance be not accepted, there will be an extraordinary military expedition, in which God puts Prophet SAWW, Gabriel, the righteous among believers and all the angels against these two wives.

This verse and the proceeding verses prove these two having committed some other sins even Kufr, not an ordinary Kufr, but a kind of Kufr based on which, like wives of Lut A and Saleh A, they have become a symbol of Kufr.

this has been extracted from the book "laylatolmabit" by "Gholamreza Sdeqifard"

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Guest Zahrah

(bismillah)

I have a request. I hope soemone will be able to help me. I have prepared a document on Lady Fatima S's immaculateness and I'd like somebody to translate it to any language other than farsi and English can anyone help me?

thanks

Zahrah

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(bismillah)

I have found sth that I enjoy a lot. I love this. One verse about ImamHussain:

[037:107]and We ransomed him with a great sacrifice.

Suyuti in Dor Almanthur says this cerse ia about Imam Hussain A's being killed in karbala.

I saw a clergy man was talking about this ayah in TV, and learned about it. He said if you pay attention, it does not say ãÐÈæÍò ÚÙیã or the great slaughtered but ÐÈÍò ÚÙیã the great sacrifice, which means the action is great, the way it is slaughtered is great.

Çáåی ˜å ÝÏÇی ÇãÇã ãÙáæãã ÈÔã. :cry:

Jazak Allah

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the dancing monkey finally snapped :!!!:

I was expecting this from you

you made a really stupid claim that the Quran doesn't give names it only explains personalities

well I proved you wrong, it also shows you barely read the Quran, cuz I don't expect anyone who is familiar with the Quran to make this retard claim as you did

Stop whinning like a woman and direct me to a verse of Quran where Sahaba's name have been mentioned.

about me worshiping the Companions

for the record

I don't consider Companions to be infallible

I don't consider Companions to be greater then the Prophet

I don't believe Abu Bakr(RA) taught the angels

I don't believe Caliphs were appointed by Allah just like the angels

I do believe they are mortals, they made mistakes

I don't believe they were present somewhere in the cosmos before the earth was made

I don't believe the earth was made for them

I don't believe they were appointed by Allah, as the Prophets were

That is because you do not have ANY evidence to do so, and if you do it will further reveal your hypocrisy and lies.

so who is worshiping their leaders and who is not stands clear

so keep committing shriek and keep acting like a hypocrite

Suffice to say your leaders are a bunch of rebels who rebelled against the clear orders of Allah and His Messenger (S) and accused Rasulullah (S) of talking no-sense while Quran says 'He speaks nothing but revelation'. Shame on you!

this your counter argument?

its full of [Edited Out]

thats what I have to say

so please come up with constructive argument

That was not counter argument as you call it, it was the clear truth which pissed you off and made you to place the [Edited Out] part (i.e, $h!%) in your mouth alongside your leaders :!!!:

this is what you said you piece of [Edited Out]

another ridiculous claim full of [Edited Out]

come up with constructive argument

I demand the son of adultery to control his anger, if he wants me to have mercy on his bottom :lol:

obey your fallible leaders and stay blind

sums up 'sed_a_L_i

Is that your last answer? go find yourself a homo fella in tora bora :lol:

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obey your fallible leaders and stay blind

sums up 'sed_a_L_i

that is not fair bro,,,,,anything we believe in ,,that they said we proved over and over through Koran,,and sunna ( and am not saying abu hourariarah grabage sunna) i mean real sunna

anything we follow ,,we challenged you guys and gave you our proof.

unlike sunni who follow men with questionable reputation like abu baker ,omar,,,othman and hourairah.

we follow men that you will not find a speck of dirty dust under thier shoes ,,,no matter how far back and deep you search in both sunni and shia books

????

it is dump to say we blidley follow them bec we follow them based on what Allah sawt asked us to do.

where is your proof that abu houRIRAH IS TO be followed in his hadith???or abu baker for that matter

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æóíóÞõæáõ ÇáøóÐöíäó ßóÝóÑõæÇú áóæúáÇ ÃõäÒöáó Úóáóíúåö ÂíóÉñ ãøöä ÑøóÈøöåö ÅöäøóãóÇ ÃóäÊó ãõäÐöÑñ æóáößõáøö Þóæúãò åóÇÏò {7}

[Pickthal 13:7] Those who disbelieve say: If only some portent were sent down upon him from his Lord! Thou art a warner only, and for every folk a guide.

The Quran treats the miracles as subordinate to the moral and spiritual evidences and signs demonstrated by the Holy Prophet, who was sent as a warner.

al Baqarah: 118. "And for every people there is a guide."

Thalabi in his Tafsir relates on the authority of Ibn Abbas that when this verse was revealed the Holy Prophet said: "I am the warner and Ali is the guide. O Ali, through you those who are guided will receive true guidance."

This tradition has also been reported and confirmed by Ibn Marduwayh, Ibn Hatim, Tabarani, Ibn Asakir, Suyuti, Ahmad bin Hambal, Fakhruddin Razi and Abu Nu-aym.

Imam Muhammad bin Ali al Baqir also said that "the warner" means the Holy Prophet and "the guide" means Ali and added "the authority to guide continues among us". This verse also points to the continued existence of a "guide", namely al Mahdi al Qa-im (al Bara-at: 32 and 33); and for "the true guides" Yunus: 35. The Holy Prophet is a warner for all people in all times, so the Imam (guide) in his progeny is also for all people in every age.

The enemies of the Ahl ul Bayt try to conceal their merits, and deny their divine rights, but Allah's plan is always executed and His will invariably takes effect:

They desire to put out the light of Allah with their mouths, but Allah wills to perfect His light, however the unbelievers may dislike it. (Saff: 8)

Allah had willed and thoroughly purified the Ahl ul Bayt (Ahzab: 33) and established them as the only truthfuls at the time of mubahilah (Ali Imran: 61).

Aqa Mahdi Puya says:

There are three interpretations of the last passage of this verse:

(i) The Holy Prophet is a warner and a guide for every nation.

(ii) The Holy Prophet is a warner and every nation had a guide.

(iii) The Holy Prophet is a warner and every nation has a guide.

In view of the above-noted tradition reported by a large number of Muslim scholars the last interpretation must be accepted.

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Guest Zahrah
this is a weak hadith

the correct version is

I am going to leave with you two heavy burdens. The first of them is the Book of Allah: in it is the true guidance and the light. Therefore, hold fast to it.� Then he (the Prophet) prompted and induced the Muslims to adhere to the Book of God. Then he said: �And my household. I remind you of Allah in matters relating to my household. I remind you of Allah in matters relating to my household. I remind you of Allah in matters relating to my household.

This has been extracted from the book “shia answers” by “Mr. Ja3far Subhani” and translated By Zahrah

About the Saqalayn Hadithæ we know that they have narrated it in two ways:

ÇáÝ)˜ÊÇÈ Çááå æ ÚÊÑÊی Çåá ÈیÊی God's book and My Ahlolbayt (members of family)

È) ˜ÊÇÈ Çááå æ ÓäÊیGod's book and My sunnah

Shia believes that “and my members of family” is true. Here are the references of this tradition (sunni ones of course):

This text is narrated by 2 great narrators:

  • Muslem in his Sahihayn From Zeyd Ibn Arqam narrates: Prophet (pbuh) one day beside a stream between Mecca and Medina called "Khoum" delivered a speech in which he praised God and advised people then said:

"ÃáÇ ÇیåÇ ÇáäÇÓ¡ ÝÇäøãÇ ÃóäÇ ÈÔÑñ یæÔ˜ Ãä یÃÊی ÑÓæá ÑÈøی ÝÃÌیÈ¡ æ ÂäÇ ÊÇј Ýی˜ã ÇáËÞáیä: ÃæáåãÇ ˜ÊÇÈ Çááå Ýیå ÇáåÏی æ ÇáäæÑ¡ ÝÎÐæÇ È˜ÊÇÈ Çááå æÇÓÊãÓ˜æÇ Èå- ÝÍË Úáی ˜ÊÇÈ Çááå æ ÑÛøÈ Ýیå Ëã ÞÇá:- æ Ãåá ÈیÊی¡ ÃИјã Çááå Ýی Çåá ÈیÊی¡ÃИјã Çááå Ýی Çåá ÈیÊی¡ ÃИјã Çááå Ýی Çåá ÈیÊی"

O people, I’m not but a humankind and it is the time when the ambassador of God come to me and I accept his invitation (I will die soon), I leave 2 precious things among you; one is God's book which is guidance and light in it, take the God's book and grasp it – and he insisted on practicing the God's book then said- and My members of family, For God I remind you of my members of family, and repeated this sentence 3 times.

"ãÓáã¡ ÕÍیÍ¡ Ì4¡Õ1803¡ ÍÏیË 2408¡ ÚÈÏÇáÈÇÞی"

"muslemm Sahis, vol.4, p.1803, No.2408T Abdulbaqi publication.

Also Darami(ÏÇÑãی) In his Sonan has said this tradition and the document of both is completely clear.

ÏÇÑãی¡ Óää¡ Ì2¡ Õ 431-432

Daremi, Sonan, vol.2, pp.431-432

  • Termazi has narrated this with the expression "my relatives, members of family":

äøی ÊÇј Ýی˜ã ãÇ Çä ÊãÓø˜Êã Èå áä ÊÖáøæÇ ÈÚÏیº ÃÍÏåÇ ÃÚÙã ãä ÇáÂÎÑ: ˜ÊÇÈ Çááå ÍÈá ããÏæÏ ãä ÇÓãÇÁ Çáی ÇáÇÑÖ æ ÚÊÑÊی Çåá ÈیÊی¡ áä یÝÊÑÞÇ ÍÊی یÑÏÇ Úáی ÇáÍæÖ¡ ÝÇäÙÑæÇ ˜یÝ ÊÎáÝæäی ÝیåÇ".

"I’m going to leave 2 precious things with you as trust, as long as you take hold of them you wont be misled: one is greater than the other one: God's Book which is “the God's blessing string” and the other “my members of family”, and these 2 wont be separated until they join me at the Houz (pond in heaven), observe how you treat them after me"

ÊÑãÐی¡ Óää¡ Ì5¡ Õ663¡37788

Termazi, Sonan, vol.5, p.663, No.37788

Muslem and Termazi who are the authors of Sehah and Sonan both emphasize on the "members of family', and it is enough for us because both documents are pretty valid and unquestionable.

The document and text of "and my sunnah"

The tradition which has used "and my sunna" instead of” and my members of family” is unreliable in document, it is forged and the agents of Umawy’s have made it:

  • Hakim Nishaburi in Mustadrak narrated this tradition with this documentation:

"abbas Ib Abi Ovays"(ÚÈÇÓ Èä ÇÈی ÇæیÓ), from "Abi Ovays" (ÇÈی ÇæیÓ)from "Thur Ibn Zid Addeylami" (ËæÑ ÇÈä ÒیÏ ÇáÏیáãی) from "Ekramah" (Ú˜Ñãå) from "ibn Abbas"(ÇÈä ÚÈÇÓ) said prophet (pbuh) :

"یÇ ÇیåÇ ÇáäÇÓ Çäی ÞÏ ÊÑ˜Ê Ýی˜ã¡ Çä ÇÚÊÕãÊã Èå Ýáä ÊÖáøæÇ ÇÈÏÇ ˜ÊÇÈ Çááå æ ÓäÊ äÈیå"

O people! I leave among you 2 things, as long as take hold of, you won’t be misled, God's book and the sunna!

Íǘ㡠ãÓÊÏј¡ Ì1¡ Õ 93

Hakim, Mustadrak, vol.1, p.93

Among the narrator of this tradition we observe a name of a father and son who are said to be pest for traditions. They not only are unreliable but also have been found guilty of lying, deduction and forgery.

The Scientists of “Elmol Rejal” has said about them:

Hafez Mazzi (ÍÇÝÙ ãÒøی) in Tahzib Alkamal (ÊåÐیÈ Çá˜ãÇá) quotes from Scientists of Elmol rejal:

Yahya Ibn Mu3in [A great rejal scientist] says: Abu Ovays and His son are untrustworthy in narration, also he has said: these 2 forge hedith. He also has said about the son that one cannot trust him.

ÍÇÝÙ ãÒی¡ ÊåÐیÈ Çá˜ãÇá¡ Ì3¡Õ127.

Hafez mazzi, Tahzib Alkamal, vol.3, p.127

Nesayii (äÓÇÆی) has said: he is unreliable, and not valid.

Abulqasem Lalkayi (ÇÈæáÞÇÓã áÇá˜ÇÆی) has said: Nesayi has said a lot about him, up to he has said his tradition ought to be relinquished.

Ibn Oday(ÇÈä ÚÏی) [one rejal scientist] says: Ibn Ovays narrates some bizarre traditions from his uncle which cannot be accepted by anyone.

ÇÈä ÍÌÑ ÚÓÞáÇäی¡ ãÞÏãå ÝÊÍ ÇáÈÇÑی¡ Õ391¡ ÏÇÑÇáãÚÑÝÊå

Ibn Hujar Asqalani, the preface of Fath Albari, p.391, Narlma3refa publication

Hafiz Sayyed Ahmad bin Sediq (ÍÇÝÙ ÓیÏ ÇÍãÏ Èä ÕÏیÞ) in the book Fatholmaliko3ala (ÝÊÍ ÇáãᘠÇáÚáی) narrates fro Ssalama Ibn Sheyb (ÓáãÉ Èä ÔیÈ): it has been heard from Esmail ibn Ovays: whenever residents of Medina would divide in two about an issue I forged a tradition.

ÍÇÝÙ ÓیÏ ÇÍãÏ¡ ÝÊÍ ÇáãᘠÇáÚáی¡ Õ 15

Hafiz Sayyed Ahmad, Fatholmalekol3la, p.15

Therefore, the son is guilty for forging traditions and Ibn Mu3inn has given him the label of mendacity. Besides, his tradition has been narrated in neither Muslem’s Sehah, nor in Termazi’s Musna.

About Abu Oveys (ÇÈæÇæیÓ) it suffices that Abu Hatam Raxi (ÇÈæÍÇÊã ÑÇÒی) in his book, jarh and ta3dil (ÌÑÍ æ ÊÚÏیá), says: his tradition are written down but cannot be argued with, and his traditions are unreliable.

ÇÈæÍÇÊã ÑÇÒی¡ ÇáÌÑÍ æ ÇáÊÚÏیá¡ Ì5¡ Õ 92

Abu Hatam, Aljarh vatta3dil, vol.5, p.92

Also he has narrated from Mu3in that Abu ovays is not valid. Traditions with documentations under his name are never verified. Besides it is in contrast with the correct and proved tradition.

It is notable to say that the narrator of the tradition (Hakim Nishaburi), has confessed the infirmity of the tradition, hence he has not worked on modifying it rather he brings a testimony which is by itself unverified so instead of proving the tradition has ruined its validity. This is his testimony:

The second document of “and my sunnah”:

  • Hakim Nishaburi in a MARFU3 manner of quoting(not from a Ma3sum) narrates from Abu Hurayreh:

"Çäی ÞÏ ÊÑ˜Ê Ýی˜ã ÔیÆیä áä ÊÖáøæÇ ÈÚÏåãÇ: ˜ÊÇÈ Çááå æ ÓäÊی æ áä یÝÊÑÞÇ ÍÊی یÑÏÇ Úáیø ÇáÍæÖ"

“Verily I have left with you 2 things after which you won’t be misled: God’s book and my sunna. And they won’t be separated until they join me at Houz”

Íǘ㡠ãÓÊÏј¡ Ì1¡ Õ 93

Hakim, Mustadrak, vol.1, p.93

The documentation that Hakem represents for this text is this:

Azzabi (ÇáÖÈی), from Saleh Ibn Musa Talhi (ÕÇáÍ Èä ãæÓی ÇáØáÍی) from Abdol Aziz ibn rafi3 (ÚÈÏ ÇáÚÒیÒ Èä ÑÝیÚ) from Abi Sleh (ÇÈی ÕÇáÍ) from Abu Hurayrah(ÇÈæ åÑیÑå).

This tradition, like the previous one, is forged and there is Saleh Ibn Musa talhi among the rejal, about whom Rejal scientists say:

Yahya Ibn Mu3in : Saleh Ibn Musa is not trustworthy. Abuhatam Raxi says: his tradition is unreliable and dissent, a lot of traditions from him quote dissents from verified people. Nesayyi says: his tradition is not written down, and also says: his tradition rejected.

ÍÇÝÙ ãÒی¡ ÊåÐیÈ Çá˜ãÇá¡ Ì13¡ Õ96

Hafiz Mazi, Tahzib Alkamal, vol.13, p.96

In Tahzib Astahzi, Ibn Hujar writes: Ibn Hebban says: Saleh Ibn Musa attributes things to verified people which are not like their sayings. At last he says: His tradition is not argument and Abu Na3im says: his tradition is rejected and he keeps narrating dissents.

ÇÈä ÍÌÑ¡ ÊåÐیÈ ÇáÊåÐیÈ¡ Ì4¡ Õ355

Ibn Hujar, Tahzib Atahzib, vol.4, p.355

Again he says in Taqrib: his tradition is rejected (1) and Zahbi, in Kashef Alqeta3(2) says: his tradition is unreliable. Until Zahbi in Almizanole3tedal(3) narrated the former tradition from him and says it is one of dissent traditions.

(1ÇÈä ÍÌÑ¡ ÊÞÑیÈ¡ ÊÑÌãÉ¡ ÑÞã 2891

Ibn Hujar, taqrib, translation, No.2891

(2ÐåÈی¡ Çá˜ÇÔÝ¡ ÊÑÌãÉ¡ ÑÞã 2412

Zahbi, Alkashef, translation, No.2412

(3ÐåÈی ãیÒÇä ÇáÇÚÊÏÇá¡ Ì2¡ Õ302

Zahbi, Mizanole3tedal, vol.2, p.302

The third document of “and my sunnah”

  • Ibn Abd Alber (ÇÈä ÚÈÏ ÇáÈÑ) in his book Tamhid (ÊãåیÏ¡ Ì24¡ Õ331) narrates this tradition with the following documentation:

Aborrahman Ibn Yahya (ÚÈÏ ÇáÍãä ÇÈä یÍیی), from Ahmad Ibn Saeid (ÇÍãÏ ÇÈä ÓÚیÏ), from Muhmmed Ibraham Addabili (ãÍãÏ ÇÈÑÇåیã ÇáÏÈیáی), from Ali Ibn Zayd Alfaraezi (Úáی ÇÈä ÒیÏ ÇáÝÑÇÆÖی) from Alhonayni (ÇáÍäیäی) from Kasir Ibn Abdullah Ibn Amr Ibn Ouf (˜ËیÑ Èä ÚÈÏÇááå Èä ÚãÑæ Èä ÚæÝ) from his father from his grandfather.

Imam Shafeii (ÇãÇã ÔÇÝÚی) says about Kasir Ibn Abdullah: he is a pillar of lie(1). Abu dawood says: he is one of the liars (2). Ibn Habban writes: Abdullah Ibn Kasir narrates tradition book from his father and grandfather the base of which is forgery that narrating from which is HARAM but for marvel and wonder.(3)

1) ÇÈä ÍÌÑ¡ ÊåÐیÈ ÇÊåÐیÈ¡ Ì8¡Õ373¡Ø ÏÇÑáݘѺ ÊåÐیÈ Çá˜ãÇá¡ Ì24¡ñ138

Ibn Hujar, Tahzib Attahzib, vol.8, p.377; Tahzib Alkamal, vol.24, p.138

2) The same source

3) ÇÈä ÍÈÇä¡ ÇáãÌÑæÍیä¡ Ì2¡ Õ221

Ibn Haban, Almajruhin, vol.2, p.221

Narration without Documentation

MAlik (ãÇá˜) in Almouta3 (ÇáãæØáÕ889¡Í3) narrates this tradition without referring to the document that everybody knows is not a valid way of narration.

Is our hadith weak or your? I bet if I had not uploaded the very text in another thread u didnt have anything to say here. what should I call u now? when revert our words and tell them back to us??

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Guest Zahrah

(bismillah)

Hey Guys I have found this one. This story from Tafsir Alnemoune by Allameh Haji Sayyed Ebrahim Broojerdi, vol.5, pp. 165-167, under the interpretations of Qesas Surah, tells us that Amiralmo3menin was not only referred to in Qur'an but he was also referred to in previous holy books:

During Amiralmo3menin's journey to Seffeyn, one day the Muslim army stayed in a place which did not have any water. The companions of Hazrat said: we and our mounts are terribly thirsty, we have searched for water every where but we haven?t found any, what are we to to?

Amiralmo3menin A departed from the army along with some companions, until they got to an abbey of a Christian priest's. Hazrat asked the priest: is any water found around near here? He responded: more than 2 parasangs (12 kilometers) must be gone, until one finds water. Companions asked Hazrat for permission to bring water, but he said it is not necessary, he walked a little bit further toward Qiblah and ordered them to dig that place. The did it until they got to a big stone. The more they tried the less they were able to take that stone out. Hazrat took the stone out, himself and solely. There was a string under it the water of which was limpid, sweet as honey, and cold as snow. Then he ordered them to drink as much as they want and give water to the horses and fill their water-skins and then put the stone back on its place.

The priest was witnessing this from the topof the abbey. He came down and asked Amiralmo3menin A: are you the messenger of God? He answered :no. the he asked: are you of angels? He said: no, im the successor of the last prophet of God Muhammad bin Abdollah saww. he said: my mowla, give your blessed hand to me so that I acknowledge my faith to you (conver to your Din), then he grasped and shaked his hand and said: I declare there is no God Bbut Allah; and Muhammed saww was His messenger and you are his successor and after the prophet you are the most deserved to be followed. Amiralmo3menin asked hin why did you convert?

The reason of building this abbey was only meeting you. Before me, there has been many priests in this abbey only to visit you, but they did not have this honor and died. I received this honor and our proof for making this abbey and waiting for you here was that it is written in our books that, in a place near this abbey, there is a spring on which is a stone. It wont be found and opened but with hands of a wali (master) of Awlia3allah (a God chosen master) and sine the spring was opened with your hands I got to knowhat you are the very wali, so I accept Islam and accepted you walayat.

Amiralmo3menin got so impressed that he cried. He cried so much that his beared got wet, then said: I thank God, who hasn?t forgotten me, and has reminded (recalled) me in predecessors' books. Then he turned to companions and said: did you here what this man said? They said: Yes, and we are happy that God has bestowed us a blessing as you.

The newly converted to Islam went to Saffayn war and fought and was martyred. Hazrat prayed at his body and asked God to forgive his sins, then said: he was a friend of ours, ahlolbayt's.

:yaali: :yaali: :yaali: :yaali: :yaali: :yaali:

Edited by Zahrah

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'To all my "Sunni" brothers...I am "sunni" and I have been doing my research for the past year and 2 months.....PLEASE READ! I HOPE this helps everyone! look at the verses in the Qu'ran and relate them back to our hadith...and trust me you'll find the truth!

Salaam' Alaikum, I have no bad intentions in sharing the knowledge that is in "Our Books of Sahih" because if i had used any other sources it would not have been trusted and would be used against me..Inshallah by doing our research in our own books we can come to the truth that is so hidden from us that have to deeply look into our books ourselves; it deeply hurts me that even the holy Qu'ran states these truths...but we as muslims never look into it...and hopefully this can make us more closer to Allah and to follow the true way of the Prophet Mohammad (S.A.W.)

The following are some hadith that I have done my research on and found also in the Qu'ran...please give me your feedback!

I have also listed my sources for each and everyone of the hadith and Qu'ranic verses...I did this so we can see this for ourselves...

After reading this why do we follow other than that of the Prophet's family because it is clearly stated in the Qu'ran (it states that they are pure....The Holy Quran, (4:59): O you who believe! Obey Allah and obey the Messenger and those vested with authority from among you..Allah only desires to keep away the uncleanness from you, O people of the House (Ahl al-Bayt), and to purify you a thorough purifying. (33:33).”) ?..

Who where the people that were truly vested with authority amongst us by our Prophet (S.A.W.)??

ÅöäøóãóÇ íõÑöíÏõ Çááøóåõ áöíõÐúåöÈó Úóäúßõãú ÇáÑøöÌúÓó Ãåá ÇáúÈóíúÊö æóíõØóåøöÑóßõãú ÊóØúåöí.

Allah only desires to keep away the uncleanness from you, O people of the House (Ahl al-Bayt), and to purify you a thorough purifying. (33:33).”

Sahih Muslim, Vol. 7, p. 130:

Úóä ÚÇÆöÔóÉó ÞÇáóÊ: ÎóÑÌó ÇáäÈí Õáøì Çááåõ Úáíåö æÓáøóã ÛÏÇÉ æÚóáóíå ãöÑØñ ãõÑÌøóáñ ãöä ÔÚÑ ÃÓæóÏó¡ ÝÌÇÁ ÇáÍÓäõ Èä Úóáíøò ÝÃÏÎóáóåõ Ëãøó ÌÇÁó ÇáÍõÓíäõ ÝóÏÎáó ãÚå Ëãø ÌÇÁóÊ ÝÇØöãÉõ ÝÃÏÎóáóåÇ Ëãø ÌÇÁó Úóáíøñ ÝÃÏúÎóáóåõ¡ Ëãø ÞÇáó: ﴿ÅöäøóãóÇ íõÑöíÏõ Çááøóåõ áöíõÐúåöÈó Úóäúßõãú ÇáÑøöÌúÓó Ãåá ÇáúÈóíúÊö æóíõØóåøöÑóßõãú ÊóØúåöíÑðÇ.﴾

Aishah says: One morning, the Holy Prophet (a.s) came out of his house wearing a cloak made of black hair. Hasan (a.s) came in and the Prophet (a.s) placed him under the cloak. Then Husayn (a.s) came and went in there. Then came Fatimah (a.s) who was placed there by the Prophet (a.s). Next Ali (a.s) came and the Prophet took him under his cloak and recited, Allah only desires to keep away the uncleanness from you, O people of the House (Ahl al-Bayt), and to purify you a thorough purifying. (33:33).”

Sahih Muslim:

Book 31, Number 5920:

Yazid b. Hayyan reported, I went along with Husain b. Sabra and 'Umar b. Muslim to Zaid b. Arqam and, as we sat by his side, Husain said to him: Zaid. you have been able to acquire a great virtue that you saw Allah's Messenger (may peace be upon him) listened to his talk, fought by his side in (different) battles, offered prayer behind me. Zaid, you have in fact earned a great virtue. Zaid, narrate to us what you heard from Allah's Messenger (may peace be upon him). He said: I have grown old and have almost spent my age and I have forgotten some of the things which I remembered in connection with Allah's Messenger (may peace be upon him), so accept whatever I narrate to you, and which I do not narrate do not compel me to do that. He then said: One day Allah's Messenger (may peace be upon him) stood up to deliver sermon at a watering place known as Khumm situated between Mecca and Medina. He praised Allah, extolled Him and delivered the sermon and. exhorted (us) and said: Now to our purpose. O people, I am a human being. I am about to receive a messenger (the angel of death) from my Lord and I, in response to Allah's call, (would bid good-bye to you), but I am leaving among you two weighty things: the one being the Book of Allah in which there is right guidance and light, so hold fast to the Book of Allah and adhere to it. He exhorted (us) (to hold fast) to the Book of Allah and then said: The second are the members of my household I remind you (of your duties) to the members of my family. He (Husain) said to Zaid: Who are the members of his household? Aren't his wives the members of his family? Thereupon he said: His wives are the members of his family (but here) the members of his family are those for whom acceptance of Zakat is forbidden. And he said: Who are they? Thereupon he said: 'Ali and the offspring of 'Ali, 'Aqil and the offspring of 'Aqil and the offspring of Ja'far and the offspring of 'Abbas. Husain said: These are those for whom the acceptance of Zakat is forbidden. Zaid said: Yes.

Sahih Muslim:

Book 31, Number 5919:

Salama b. Akwa' reported that it was 'Ali whom Allah's Apostle (may peace be upon him) left behind him (in the charge of his family and the Islamic State) on the occasion of the campaign of Khaibar, and his eyes were inflamed and he said: Is it for me to remain behind Allah's Messenger (may peace be upon him)? So he went forth and rejoined Allah's Apostle (may peace be upon him) and on the evening of that night (after which) next morning Allah granted victory. Allah's Messenger (may peace be upon him) said: I will certainly give this standard to a man whom Allah and His Messenger love. or he said: Who loves Allah or His Messenger and Allah will grant him victory through him, and, lo, we saw 'Ali whom we least expected (to be present on that occasion). They (the Companions) said: Here is 'Ali. Thereupon Allah's Messenger (may peace be upon hin) gave him the standard. Allah granted victory at his hand.

WHY THE WIVES OF THE PROPHET (AISHA OR UMM SALAMA) ARENT PART OF THE "AHLUL-BAYT" --->> HERE IS YOUR CLEAR ANSWER FOR ANYONE WHO ASKS THIS QUESTION

Sahih Muslim, Kitab Fadha’il Al-Sahabah, No. 4425.

Pay considerable attention to the fact that the honorable Prophet (a.s) has separated Ummu-Salamah, his wife, from his Household (a.s). Hence when Zayd Ibn Arqam was asked, “Who are the Ahl al-Bayt? Are the Prophet’s wives among them?” He answered, “No! A wife lives with her husband for a while, then her husband divorces her and she returns to her father’s and her tribe.”

Sahih Muslim:

Book 31, Number 5920:

Who are the members of his household? Aren't his wives the members of his family? Thereupon he said: His wives are the members of his family (but here) the members of his family are those for whom acceptance of Zakat is forbidden. And he said: Who are they? Thereupon he said: 'Ali and the offspring of 'Ali, 'Aqil and the offspring of 'Aqil and the offspring of Ja'far and the offspring of 'Abbas. Husain said: These are those for whom the acceptance of Zakat is forbidden. Zaid said: Yes.

Sahih Muslim on Aisha'

Book 9, Number 3510:

Ibn Abbas (Allah be pleased with them) is reported to have said: I intended to ask Umar about those two ladies who had pressed for (worldly riches) during the lifetime of the Holy Prophet (may peace be upon him), and I kept waiting for one year, but found no suitable opportunity with him until I happened to accompany him to Mecca.And as he reached Marr al Zahran he went away to answer the call of nature, and he said (to me): Bring me a jug of water, and I took that to him.After having answered the call of nature, as he came back, I began to pour water (over his hands and feet), and I remembered (this event of separation of Allah's Apostle [may peace be upon him] from his wives).So I said to him: Commander of the Faithful, who are the two ladies (who had pressed the Holy Prophet [may peace be upon him] for providing comforts of life) and I had not yet finished my talk when he said:They were 'A'isha and Hafsa.

The Holy Qur'an also addresses Ladys:'A'ishah and Hafsa exclusively: "If you two (wives of the Prophet) turn in repentance to Allah - but your hearts are so inclined (to oppose what the Prophet likes). But if you help one another against him, then verily Allah is his Protector - and Jibril, and the righteous among the believers, and the angels are also his helpers. It may be that if he divorced you, his Lord would give him, instead of you, wives better than you - Muslims submitting to Allah, believers, women obedient to Allah, who turn to Allah in repentance, worship Allah sincerely, given to fasting, or emigrants (for the cause of Allah) - previously married and virgins."(66:4-5)These verses of the Holy Qur'an prove that the wives of the Holy Prophet (pbuh&hf) were not the best of the companions. However, for political, social, and economic causes as well as to spread the word of Allah, the Holy Prophet (pbuh&hf) married this number of wives and was patient with their mischief and rebellion.

Sahih Al-Tirmidhi, Kitab Al-Manaqib:

Úóä Ããø ÓóáóãóÉ: Ãäø ÇáäÈíø Õáøì Çááåõ Úáíåö æÓáøóã Íóáøóáó Úóáì ÇáÍóÓóäö æÇáÍõÓíäö æóÚóáöíøò æóÝÇØöãóÉó ßöÓÇÁð Ëãø ÞÇá: Çááøåõãø åÄáÇÁö Ãåáõ ÈóíÊí æóÎÇÕøóÊíº ÃÐúåöÈú Úóäåãõ ÇáÑøÌúÓó æóØóåøÑåõã ÊóØåíÑÇð. ÝÞÇáóÊ Ããøõ ÓóáóãÉ: æÃäÇ ãóÚóåõã íÇ ÑóÓæáó Çááå¿ ÞÇá: Åäøß Åáì ÎóíÑò.

Ummu-Salamah has quoted that the Holy Prophet (a.s) covered Hasan, Husayn, Ali and Fatimah (a.s) with his cloak and then stated: “O Lord! These are my Household (Ahl al-Bayt) and my chosen ones. Take wickedness away from them and make them pure!”

Ummu-Salamah says, “I asked the Prophet (a.s), ‘O Messenger of Allah! Am I among them?’ He replied, ‘You are into goodness (but not among them).’”

Tirmidhi writes under this tradition: “This tradition is true and well-documented and the best one quoted in this regard.”

Ÿ Sahih Al-Tirmidhi, Vol. 13, p.200:

…áãøÇ äóÒóáóÊú åÐå ÇáÂíóÉõ Úáì ÇáäøÈí Õáøì Çááåõ Úáíåö æÓáøóã : ﴿ÅöäøóãóÇ íõÑöíÏõ Çááøóåõ áöíõÐúåöÈó Úóäúßõãú ÇáÑøöÌúÓó Ãåá ÇáúÈóíúÊö æóíõØóåøöÑóßõãú ÊóØúåöíÑðÇ.﴾ Ýí ÈóíÊö Ãõãøö ÓóáóãÉó ÏóÚÇ ÇáäøÈíøõ Õáøì Çááåõ Úáíåö æÓáøóã ÝÇØöãóÉó æóÍÓóäÇð æóÍõÓíäÇð æÚóáíøñ ÎóáÝó ÙóåúÑöå ÝóÌóáøóáóåõã ÈößöÓÇÁò¡ Ëãøó ÞÇá: Çááøåõãø åÄáÇÁö Ãåáõ ÈóíÊí ÝóÃÐúåöÈú Úóäåãõ ÇáÑøÌúÓó æóØóåøÑåõã ÊóØåíÑÇð. ÞÇáóÊ Ãõãøõ ÓóáóãÉ: æÃäÇ ãóÚóåõã íÇ äóÈíøó Çááå¿ ÞÇáó: ÃäúÊö Úóáì ãóßÇäößö æÃäúÊö Åáì ÎóíÑò.

Umar Ibn Salamah, the Holy Prophet’s stepchild, says: The honorable verse of “Purification” was revealed in the house of Ummu-Salamah, the Holy Prophet’s wife. The Holy Prophet (a.s) called Fatimah, Hasan and Husayn (a.s), and Ali (a.s) was behind him. Then he covered them with a cloak (kisa’) and stated: “O Allah! These are my Household, so banish wickedness from them and make them pure!” At this moment, Ummu-Salamah asked: “O Prophet of God! Am I among them?” He answered, “You are in your own place and you are into goodness, too.”

12 Imams/leaders/caliphs in Sahih Bukhari...Sahih Muslim...Sahih Tirmidhi

Sahih Al-Bukhari, Vol. 4.p. 168:

ÓãÚÊõ ÇáäÈíø Õáøì Çááåõ Úáíåö æÓáøóã íÞæá: íóßæäõ ÇËúäÇ ÚóÔÑó ÃãíÑÇð¡ ÝÞÇáó ßóáãóÉð áã ÃÓúãóÚúåÇ¡ ÝÞÇá ÃÈí Åäøå ÞÇá: ßõáøõåõã ãöä ÞõÑíÔ

Jabir says: I heard the Prophet (a.s) saying: “There will be twelve leaders and Caliphs.” Then he added something I could not hear. My father said that the Prophet said: “All of them are from Quraysh.”[33]

Ÿ Sahih Muslim, Vol. 6, p. 3:

ÞÇá ÇáäÈí Õáøì Çááåõ Úáíåö æÓáøóã : Åäøó åÐÇ ÇáÃãúÑó áÇ íóäúÞóÖí ÍóÊìø íóãÖí Ýíåã ÇËäÇ ÚóÔóÑó ÎóáíÝóÉð. ÞÇá: Ëã Êßáã ÈßáÇã ÎÝöíó Úáíø¡ ÝÞáÊõ áÃÈí: ãÇ ÞÇá¿ ÞÇá: ßõáøõåõã ãöä ÞõÑóíúÔò.

Jabir narrates: My father and I went to the Prophet (a.s). We heard him saying: “This issue (Caliphate) will not be completed until twelve Caliphs come.” Then he added something I did not get. I asked my father what the Prophet had said. He said: “All are from Quraysh.”[34]

Ÿ Sahih Muslim, Vol. 6, p.4 (Nawawi’s exposition):

ÓãÚÊõ ÑÓæá Çááå Õáøì Çááåõ Úáíåö æÓáøóã íÞæá: áÇ íóÒÇáõ ÇáÏøíä ÞÇÆöãÇð ÍÊìø ÊóÞæãó ÇáÓøÇÚóÉõ Ãæ íóßæäó Úóáíßõã ÇËúäÇ ÚóÔóÑó ÎóáíÝóÉð ßõáøõåõã ãöä ÞõÑíÔò.

The Holy Prophet (a.s) has said: The religion (Islam) remains established until twelve Caliphs, all of whom from Quraysh, rule over you.[35]

Again the same tradition is quoted in “Sahih Muslim” in different words.

Ÿ Sahih Muslim, Vol. 6, p. 3:

ÓãÚÊõ ÑÓæá Çááå Õáøì Çááåõ Úáíåö æÓáøóã íÞæá: áÇ íóÒÇáõ ÇáÅÓáÇãõ ÚóÒíÒÇð Åáì ÇËäóí ÚóÔÑó ÎóáíÝóÉð. Ëãø ÞÇáó ßóáãóÉð áã ÃÝúåóãúåÇ¡ ÝÞõáÊõ áÃÈí: ãÇ ÞÇá¿ ÝóÞÇáó: ßõáøõåõã ãöä ÞõÑíÔò.

Jabir narrates: I heared the great Prophet (a.s) saying: “Islam will always remain mighty until twelve Imams come.” Then he said something I did not understand. I asked my father: “What did he say?” He replied: “All are from Quraysh.”

Ÿ Sahih Al-Tirmidhi, Vol 2, p. 45 :

ÞÇá ÑÓæá Çááå Õáøì Çááåõ Úáíåö æÓáøóã : íóßæäõ ãöä ÈóÚÏöí ÇËúäÇ ÚóÔÑó ÃãíÑÇð. Ëãø Êóßóáøã ÈöÔíÁò áã ÃÝåóãúå¡ ÝÓÃóáúÊõ ÇáÐí íóáíäí ÝÞÇá: ßõáøåõã ãöä ÞõÑíúÔò.

Jabir says that the Prophet (a.s) said: “There will be Twelve Imams and leaders after me.” Then he said something I did not get. I asked the person beside me about it. He said: “All of them are from Quraysh.”[36]

Tirmidhi writes after this tradition, “This is a fine and true tradition which is narrated from Jabir in different chains.”

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you can not compare gold with silver and a sword with a stick.

You can not compare Imam Ali (as) the Sword and the Gold, and made from light ...with sticks.

Why do we even engage in such a comparison. they can never prove abu bkar and umar except with their fabricated books.

Brother Asslamoalaikum, I fully respect your faith and emotions. But i feel sorry about those minor brains who think that Abu Bakar, or Umer Or Uthman were superior to Ali (as) while they were not even comparable with the soil under the feet of my Imam (as). This is just a challange. I have told this time and again in this thread that there is no comparison but a challenger for them. If they fail in this challange they should embrace the right path and desert the faith revolving around power and state and materialism.

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Guest Zahrah
I don't believe Abu Bakr(RA) taught the angels

(bismillah)

Guys! I' like to correct his misspelling here, he means devils by angles.

I don't believe Caliphs were appointed by Allah just like the angels

I do believe they are mortals, they made mistakes

I don't believe they were present somewhere in the cosmos before the earth was made

I don't believe the earth was made for them

I don't believe they were appointed by Allah, as the Prophets were

ur califas or ours? remember Tatheer and wa 3etrati?

so who is worshiping their leaders and who is not stands clear

so keep committing shriek and keep acting like a hypocrite

r u sure u understand the difference between respectiing the respect that God orders and worshipping?

same goes to Suyuti and Tabari and many other sunni hadiths books

many Shia

an example is Aabiss_Shakari in this thread

he is quoting Imam Suyuti, who himself never authenticated his tafsir collections

Suyuti compiled as many narrations as he can for each verse without even giving his opinion or authenticating them

we've said many from Bukhari is that the case with Bukhari as well?

in Al-Mizan tabaeti barely gives references

:!!!: Almizan is rational; it is based on substantion on a claim more. so it does not need references. it is phylosophical.

but what I found amusing in your reply is that even hadiths need interpretations lolzzzzzzz

and who is interpreting them?

you fallible Shia scholars

obey your fallible leaders and stay blind

sums up 'sed_a_L_i

it's not strange that u laugh at this. bc u've got scholars like Tabari that says "ta3wil" is done and understoosd by God, and again at the very plcae he says "but my Ta3wil on this verse is..."

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æóíóÞõæáõ ÇáøóÐöíäó ßóÝóÑõæÇú áóÓúÊó ãõÑúÓóáÇð Þõáú ßóÝóì ÈöÇááøåö ÔóåöíÏðÇ Èóíúäöí æóÈóíúäóßõãú æóãóäú ÚöäÏóåõ Úöáúãõ ÇáúßöÊóÇÈö {43}

[Quran 13:43] They who disbelieve say: Thou art no messenger (of Allah). Say: Allah, and whosoever hath knowledge of the Scripture, is sufficient witness between me and you.

Similarly in Quran Surah Hud Ayat No. 17 Allah almighty Says:-

[Quran 11:17] Is he (to be counted equal with them) who relieth on a clear proof from his Lord, and a witness from Him reciteth it, and before it was the Book of Moses, an example and a mercy? Such believe therein, and whoso disbelieveth therein of the clans, the Fire is his appointed place. So be not thou in doubt concerning it. Lo! it is the Truth from thy Lord; but most of mankind believe not.

There are several traditions reported on the authority of Ahl ul Bayt, and also narrated by well-known Muslim scholars like Jalal al Din al Suyuti in Durr al Manthur, Muhammad bin Ahmad Qartabi in Tafsir Qartabi, Sayyid Hashim Bahrayni in Tafsir Burhan, Abd Ali bin Jumah Hawyazi in Tafsir Nur al Thaqalayn, Abu Ali al Tabrasi in Tafsir Majma al Bayan, Abu Ishaq al Thalabi in Tasir al Kabir, and Abu Nu-aym in Hilyatul Awliya that shahid in this verse refers to Ali ibn abi Talib (as).

In reply to a question Imam Ali said that in "Is he then (like unto him) who has a clear proof from his Lord, and a witness, from Him, follows him," the Holy Prophet is the divine "bayyanah" and I am the witness, guide and mercy.

Allah has declared Ali to be the Imam who alone testifies the truth about Allah and His Prophet, and like the Holy Prophet who is "mercy unto the world", he is also "mercy'? because both of them are from one and the same divine light, therefore, Ali is the only true successor of the Holy Prophet whom all the Muslims should follow if they have truly and sincerely surrendered themselves to the will of Allah.

Aqa Mahdi Puya says:

In this verse (Quran 11:17) yatlu means to follow, and to translate it "to recite" is incorrect as there is no mention of anything to be recited. On the contrary a "person" has been mentioned, who is with clear evidence from his Lord. Therefore "to recite" is meaningless. It is clearly said that there is a person who has come with clear evidence from Allah and there is another who immediately follows and bears witness to the truthfulness of the first; and before him the book of Musa had borne witness.

All commentators agree that the person with the clear evidence from Allah is the Holy Prophet.

The person who follows him is next to him, none come between these two.

The Holy Prophet is the first person. His witness is the second person.

The same testimony was borne by the book of Musa before.

Both are "Imam" and "Rahmah" (also refer to Ahqaf: 12).

The witness is Ali ibn abi Talib as has been mentioned by a large number of Muslim scholars mentioned above.

Edited by Aabiss_Shakari

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Ãóáóãú ÊóÑó ßóíúÝó ÖóÑóÈó Çááøåõ ãóËóáÇð ßóáöãóÉð ØóíøöÈóÉð ßóÔóÌóÑÉò ØóíøöÈóÉò ÃóÕúáõåóÇ ËóÇÈöÊñ æóÝóÑúÚõåóÇ Ýöí ÇáÓøóãóÇÁ {24}

[Quran 14:24] Seest thou not how Allah coineth a similitude: A goodly saying, as a goodly tree, its root set firm, its branches reaching into heaven,

Aqa Mahdi Puya says:

Kalimatan tayyibah (a goodly word) is usually interpreted as the divine word, thought or deed, but, in a more general sense, it may be interpreted as a thought, word or deed of goodness of any other good and noble agency, other than Allah, which emanates from a true understanding and application of the religion of Allah-it is like a goodly tree which is firmly rooted and grows higher and higher with ever green branches, always yielding fruit; and the heavens is the limit.

Kalimatin khabithah (an evil word), likened to an evil tree, is the opposite of the goodly tree.

The Holy Prophet said:

"Islam is the goodly tree. Belief in Allah is its root. Salat, sawm, zakat, khums and jihad are its branches. Reliance upon Allah, good manners, piety and abstinence from whatever is forbidden are its leaves."

According to Imam Jafar bin Muhammad al Sadiq, the Holy Prophet also said:

"I am the root of the goodly tree. Ali is its trunk, my divinely chosen Ahl ul Bayt are its branches and the pious followers of my Ahl ul Bayt are its leaves."

Imam Ali bin Musa al Rida has quoted lmam Ali to say that root, trunk and branches are the essential parts of a tree, likewise (if Islam is compared to a goodly tree) sincere belief in the true faith, ingrained in the heart and mind of a believer, is the root, declaration is the trunk and practice of the prescribed religious laws is the leaves.

The Holy Prophet said:

"The parable of the evil tree refers to Bani Umayyah."

Aqa Mahdi Puya says:

The opposite of the goodly tree mentioned in verse 24 of this surah is the evil tree which has no root, no growth and no utility at all.

The parable of the goodly tree refers to Islam, the Holy Prophet and his Ahl ul Bayt, and the evil tree refers to enemies of Islam, the Holy Prophet and his Ahl ul Bayt.

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æóãóÇ ÃóÑúÓóáúäóÇ ãöä ÞóÈúáößó ÅöáÇøó ÑöÌóÇáÇð äøõæÍöí Åöáóíúåöãú ÝóÇÓúÃóáõæÇú Ãóåúáó ÇáÐøößúÑö Åöä ßõäÊõãú áÇó ÊóÚúáóãõæäó {43}

[Quran 16:43] And We sent not (as Our messengers) before thee other than men whom We inspired - Ask the followers of the Remembrance if ye know not! -

Dhikr refers to the Quran, and it is also one of the names of the Holy Prophet. As is mentioned in Surah Talaq Ayat 10 and 11

ÚóÏøó Çááøóåõ áóåõãú ÚóÐóÇÈðÇ ÔóÏöíÏðÇ ÝóÇÊøóÞõæÇ Çááøóåó íóÇ Ãõæúáöí ÇáúÃóáúÈóÇÈö ÇáøóÐöíäó ÂãóäõæÇ ÞóÏú ÃóäÒóáó Çááøóåõ Åöáóíúßõãú ÐößúÑðÇ {10}

[Quran 65:10] Allah hath prepared for them stern punishment; so keep your duty to Allah, O men of understanding! O ye who believe! Now Allah hath sent down unto you a reminder,

Rasulan, in appositional case, qualifies dikr. The function stated here is that the signs of Allah are recited by him, therefore Jibrail is not referred to, but anzala is mostly used for the Quran, though in wider sense it can be used for other things as in Hijr: 21. The internal evidence suggests that it refers to the Holy Prophet. So dhikr is another divine title of the Holy Prophet whose life is a perfect example of remembering Allah.

Ahl ul dhikr (the people of dhikr) are the Ahl ul Bayt.

Aqa Mahdi Puya says:

Dhikr literally means to call back to memory, or in other words to have something in conscious mind. It has been used figuratively for a stimulus which brings an object into the focus of consciousness. To be conscious of Allah, the Quran, the other scriptures and the Holy Prophet has been described as dhikr.

Some commentators hold that here dhikr refers to the previous scriptures and ahlul dhikr refers to the Jews and the Christians, but it is certainly a bad example of misinterpretation because even an ordinary teacher of Islamic ideology would not command a Muslim to refer to the Jewish and Christian scholars to remove his doubts, leave alone the all-wise Lord of the worlds. Dhikr means to be conscious of Allah and ahl refers to those who are always conscious of Allah as asserted in An Nur: 37. Also dhikr means the Quran or the Holy Prophet and ahl refers to the people identified with the Holy Prophet and the Quran, thoroughly purified by Allah (Ahzab: 33) and are always with the Quran as per hadith al thaqalayn.

Allahuma Salae Ala Muhammadin Wa Aalae Muhammad

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íóÚúÑöÝõæäó äöÚúãóÊó Çááøåö Ëõãøó íõäßöÑõæäóåóÇ æóÃóßúËóÑõåõãõ ÇáúßóÇÝöÑõæäó {83}

[Quran 16:83] They know the favour of Allah and then deny it. Most of them are ingrates.

Ni-mat means bounty, favour, blessings.

Imam Jafar bin Muhammad as Sadiq said:

"The ni-mat of Allah was completed and perfected when the wilayah of Ali ibn abi Talib was confirmed at Ghadir Khum by the Holy Prophet by appointing him as the mawla (master) of the believers, just like him, to represent him in all affairs, after his departure from this world."

If Ma-idah: 5, 55 and 67 is studied carefully, it becomes clear and obvious that ni-mat, in this verse, refers to the Holy Prophet and his Ahl ul bayt; and "they deny it" refers to those who deprived them of their divine rights, harassed, persecuted and killed them.

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[Quran 16:83] They know the favour of Allah and then deny it. Most of them are ingrates.

Ni-mat means bounty, favour, blessings.

Imam Jafar bin Muhammad as Sadiq said:

"The ni-mat of Allah was completed and perfected when the wilayah of Ali ibn abi Talib was confirmed at Ghadir Khum by the Holy Prophet by appointing him as the mawla (master) of the believers, just like him, to represent him in all affairs, after his departure from this world."

If Ma-idah: 5, 55 and 67 is studied carefully, it becomes clear and obvious that ni-mat, in this verse, refers to the Holy Prophet and his Ahl ul bayt; and "they deny it" refers to those who deprived them of their divine rights, harassed, persecuted and killed them.

While on this verse, sunni/salafi claim is Prophet pbuh by saying mawla meant "friend" ... fair enough.... however two things if you guys can rationalize:

1) was hazrat ali (as) an enemy of Muslims before this order?????? if not then where is this friendship coming from :)

2) why hazrat umar was the first person to go up to him (as) and say " congradulations, from today you are not only mawla of all momins but also my mawla too" (so if i was to go with the meaning of "friend" it certainly shows either he (as) wasn't friend of hazrat umar or :)

i guess we can't simply it for you any more than this ..... wake up

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(salam)

(bismillah)

Rules of the thread

Please follow the following rules while this thread progresses.

1. First paste a holy verse of holy Quran which you believe is in the praise of Ali (as) or Shaikhain (ra).

2. Then paste any reference "Sunni" or "Shia" which proves your point. I have intentionally allowed this to both schools of thought because Shia may present many references from Sunni sources but it will be difficult for Sunnis to present from Shia sources so it is allowed to them to rely on their own sources for proving that Shaikhain were higher in status than Ali (as) from their own sources of interpretation of Holy Quran.

3. Please start from the very beginning of Holy Quran meaning thereby from Surah Al-hamd or Surah Al-baqra to prove their point and then the next poster will post from the subsequent ayat of the same surah or any verse of very next surah.

4. Please avoid name calling only prove your point through Quranic verses and sayings of Holy Prophet (sawaw).

Inshallah this thread will continue while making many pages. At last we shall analyze than whose status was higher Hazrat Ali (as) or "Shaikhain" (ra). That also from both sources. As i said earlier i am not posing condition on Sunnis to present Shia sources. They can present both :)

Thank you and enjoy this thread

(salam)

I dont really want to get involved in this thread - but i want to add one thing.

That when the Wa7y came to Sayidina Mu7ammad SAWAS Imam Ali r.a. was a boy and not Baaligh yet or Mukalaf .

Where as the First two khalifs were .

I dont know if that makes a difference to any of you .

shukran

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(salam)

I dont really want to get involved in this thread - but i want to add one thing.

That when the Wa7y came to Sayidina Mu7ammad SAWAS Imam Ali r.a. was a boy and not Baaligh yet or Mukalaf .

Where as the First two khalifs were .

I dont know if that makes a difference to any of you .

shukran

Yes it does make a difference to us brother.

Because he was a boy (muslim) and first two Khalifa's were among NON MUSLIMS at that time (and for a long time after that too)

Edited by mimran

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Yes it does make a difference to us brother.

Because he was a boy (muslim) and first two Khalifa's were among NON MUSLIMS at that time (and for a long time after that too)

Negative - If he was a boy it means the deeds really dont count in addition to the fact that Islam erases all past deeds . \

So i think entire argument is rather weak .

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Negative - If he was a boy it means the deeds really dont count in addition to the fact that Islam erases all past deeds . \

So i think entire argument is rather weak .

You are forgetting we believe Imam Ali (as) is muslim by birth, just like how Prophet pbuh is Prophet at the time of birth not at the age of 40.

Just do me a very small favor, and stay true to your word after this, what is the age of Blaghat according to your knowledge?

Edited by mimran

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You are forgetting we believe Imam Ali (as) is muslim by birth, just like how Prophet pbuh is Prophet at the time of birth not at the age of 40.

Just do me a very small favor, and stay true to your word after this, what is the age of Blaghat according to your knowledge?

I think It differs in males like from 11 to 15 ? correct me if i am wrong .

It still doesnt matter Bro - whether Born muslim and reverted Muslim - a muslim is a Muslim .

But Imam Ali r.a. was from Ahlulbayt a.s. thats the only difference the way i see it.

Allahu A3lam

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I think It differs in males like from 11 to 15 ? correct me if i am wrong .

It still doesnt matter Bro - whether Born muslim and reverted Muslim - a muslim is a Muslim .

But Imam Ali r.a. was from Ahlulbayt a.s. thats the only difference the way i see it.

Allahu A3lam

I can't make any sense out of what you have said above, so if he (as) was a born muslim but since under the age of blaghat his deeds do not count? or he (as) himself don't count?

And who gives you this authority? to make a judgment of this sort?

Your original claim were he was under age and the other two were old enough at the time of first WAHI. FINE.

But he as was a believer and the other two were not.

So what is your point?

I mean make sense out of it please!

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I can't make any sense out of what you have said above, so if he (as) was a born muslim but since under the age of blaghat his deeds do not count? or he (as) himself don't count?

And who gives you this authority? to make a judgment of this sort?

Your original claim were he was under age and the other two were old enough at the time of first WAHI. FINE.

But he as was a believer and the other two were not.

So what is your point?

I mean make sense out of it please!

He a.s. was not Mukalaf .

Can you define the terms Baaligh or Mukalaf for us please ?

Edited by s@jaad

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I understand he as was not Mukalaf but what has this got to do with first wahi and other two khalifa's?

That comparing that period makes no sense like you are doing . in this thread.

Allah knows best wont post in the thread again shukran.

Edited by s@jaad

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That comparing that period makes no sense like you are doing . in this thread.

Allah knows best wont post in the thread again shukran.

No please do post if your intention is to gain knowledge.

however i would like you to do one very simple thing. Please pick up Sahih Bukhari and find out who are the top three hadith narrators e.g. hazrat Abu Hureera, Hazrat ibn Abbas etc etc

then please find out their ages and when they saw the Prophet pbuh the last time.

once you have done that apply YOUR LOGIC which you have just suggested above, and please tell me what happens.

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(salam)

I dont really want to get involved in this thread - but i want to add one thing.

That when the Wa7y came to Sayidina Mu7ammad SAWAS Imam Ali r.a. was a boy and not Baaligh yet or Mukalaf .

Where as the First two khalifs were .

I dont know if that makes a difference to any of you .

shukran

You took it wrong in the very begining. Age had never been imporant when it comes to "Hidayat" (Guidance from Allah). When Hazrat Isa (as) was born and people did "Takzeeb" of Syeda Maryam (as), then Isa (as) (while in the lap of his (as) mother) told to them that "I am prophet and i have brought a book". So this is the problem for those who brought Islam afterwards while Ali (as) was muslim from his birth.

One more important thing is here that Ali (as) is that personality who remained with the Prophet (pbuh) since the begining. Evenso in "Dawat-e-Zulasheera" Prophet (pbuh) asked who will help me in this regard and whosoever will do so will be my "Khalifah" and my "Wasi". Ali (as) stood up and said "O Prophet (pbuh), I shall be your helper. I shall break the hands who will oppose you. I shall remove the eyes who will have bad sight on you". He (as) said though "I am a boy and my arms and legs are weak but i shall support you". Imam Ali (as) was one of first persons who offered prayer along with Hazrat Muhammad (pbuh). Your whole argument is baseless and frivolous and shows that you do not have "Ma'arfat" of Ahl ul bait (as).

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That comparing that period makes no sense like you are doing . in this thread.

Allah knows best wont post in the thread again shukran.

Only Shia muslims are posting here since long. Few of the posts are made by Sunnis. Reason is that they know they will be easily defeated on this issue. THIS IS A CHALLANGE FOR THEM AND THEY RARELY ACCEPT THE CHALLANGE. :)

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Only Shia muslims are posting here since long. Few of the posts are made by Sunnis. Reason is that they know they will be easily defeated on this issue. THIS IS A CHALLANGE FOR THEM AND THEY RARELY ACCEPT THE CHALLANGE. :)

Brother they are not familiar with the term "challenge", the only belief they have is in "blind following"

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Only Shia muslims are posting here since long. Few of the posts are made by Sunnis. Reason is that they know they will be easily defeated on this issue. THIS IS A CHALLANGE FOR THEM AND THEY RARELY ACCEPT THE CHALLANGE. :)

I am not your normal Sunni :)

And i came to you with a small argument that makes your whole argument amount to NOTHING .

You took it wrong in the very begining. Age had never been imporant when it comes to "Hidayat" (Guidance from Allah). When Hazrat Isa (as) was born and people did "Takzeeb" of Syeda Maryam (as), then Isa (as) (while in the lap of his (as) mother) told to them that "I am prophet and i have brought a book". So this is the problem for those who brought Islam afterwards while Ali (as) was muslim from his birth.

One more important thing is here that Ali (as) is that personality who remained with the Prophet (pbuh) since the begining. Evenso in "Dawat-e-Zulasheera" Prophet (pbuh) asked who will help me in this regard and whosoever will do so will be my "Khalifah" and my "Wasi". Ali (as) stood up and said "O Prophet (pbuh), I shall be your helper. I shall break the hands who will oppose you. I shall remove the eyes who will have bad sight on you". He (as) said though "I am a boy and my arms and legs are weak but i shall support you". Imam Ali (as) was one of first persons who offered prayer along with Hazrat Muhammad (pbuh). Your whole argument is baseless and frivolous and shows that you do not have "Ma'arfat" of Ahl ul bait (as).

Age does count - since he was Not baaligh there are no way you can compare .

Define the Word Mukalaf or Baaligh please .

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I am not your normal Sunni :)

And i came to you with a small argument that makes your whole argument amount to NOTHING .

Age does count - since he was Not baaligh there are no way you can compare .

Define the Word Mukalaf or Baaligh please .

we asked you to do research and find out the ages for us for the most contributors of hadiths in bukhari .... once you have done that come and argue otherwise you don't stand a point

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