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Aabiss_Shakari

Hazrat Ali (as) Versus Shaikhain Before Quran

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Well, I happen to believe that the companions would know better than we do since they were there

but the sunni did not start writing ahadeeth until 170 years after the death of the Prophet (saaws) so it is easy to see how things could have easily have been fabricated........

and as you are done with out conversation then i will say goodbye.

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the thing i dont get is that all this arguing, and yet not once, did any of them four Abu Bakr, Umar, Uthman, Ali! ever say they were better then each other, but you can read loads of sources where they praise each other, so why are we arguin lol when they never claimed to be better then anyone else

Hazrat Ali (as) time and again claimed his right of caliphate. This is totally wrong that He (as) praised the Shaikhain who were usurpers and snatched the right of Ahl ul bait (as)

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I apologize brother for derailing your thread.....i was just using some logical arguments trying to give dawah

everyone can go back to posting ayat in the praise of Imam Ali (as) or the shaikhain seeing as sunni brother is finished with the dialogue....

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Hazrat Ali (as) time and again claimed his right of caliphate. This is totally wrong that He (as) praised the Shaikhain who were usurpers and snatched the right of Ahl ul bait (as)

this is from nahjul balagha and its pure praise lol sermon 163

The people are behind me and they have made me an ambassador between you and themselves; but by Allah, I do not know what to say to you. I know nothing (in this matter) which you do not know, nor can I lead you to any matter of which you are not aware. You certainly know what we know, we have not come to know anything before you which we could tell you; nor did we learn anything in secret which we should convey to you. You have seen as we have seen and you have heard as we have heard. You sat in the company of the Prophet of Allah as we did. (Abu Bakr) Ibn Abi Quhafah and (`Umar) ibn al-Khattab were no more responsible for acting righteously than you, since you are nearer than both of them to the Prophet of Allah through kinship, and you also hold relationship to him by marriage which they do not hold.

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You should better start a separate thread for it. I am not inclined to answer it here. Yes if you have any verse of Holy Quran in praise of Shaikhain bring forward and discuss with us here. I have presented many verses of Holy Quran about Hazrat Ali (as). So Ali (as) was more virtuous in the eye of Quran and Shaikhain had no prior right to occupy Khilafat. :). I shall wait for the verses

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æóÅöÐú ÃóÎóÐó ÑóÈøõßó ãöä Èóäöí ÂÏóãó ãöä ÙõåõæÑöåöãú ÐõÑøöíøóÊóåõãú æóÃóÔúåóÏóåõãú Úóáóì ÃóäÝõÓöåöãú ÃóáóÓúÊó ÈöÑóÈøößõãú ÞóÇáõæÇú Èóáóì ÔóåöÏúäóÇ Ãóä ÊóÞõæáõæÇú íóæúãó ÇáúÞöíóÇãóÉö ÅöäøóÇ ßõäøóÇ Úóäú åóÐóÇ ÛóÇÝöáöíäó {172}(Surah Aar'af Ayat 172)

[Pickthal 7:172] And (remember) when thy Lord brought forth from the Children of Adam, from their reins, their seed, and made them testify of themselves, (saying): Am I not your Lord? They said: Yea, verily. We testify. (That was) lest ye should say at the Day of Resurrection: Lo! of this we were unaware;

Allah, the omnipotent creator, after creating Adam from clay, asked him and every soul to be born in his progeny, who, in the infinite knowledge of the almighty Allah, would come on this earth: "Am I not your Lord?" All of them said: "Yes. We bear witness". It was done so that men may not say that they did not know who their Lord-Creator is. The Holy Prophet said that if only men knew when Ali was appointed mawla and amir al muminin, they would not deny his superiority over all other created beings. According to Firdaws al Akhyar by Dayami, chap. 14, p. 274; and Tafsir of al Ayyashi, when the almighty Lord decided to create the universe, He assembled all His creatures together before Himself and asked them: "Who is your Lord?" Thereupon the first to answer was the Holy Prophet, and next was Ali ibna abi Talib, and then all the Imams who were to be his descendants. They all said: "You are our Lord." Then the almighty Lord made them the repositories of divine knowledge and said to the angels: "Behold, these are the repositories of My knowledge and these are the trusted ones from among all My creatures and they shall be the guides of all in everything."

:)

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æóãöãøóäú ÎóáóÞúäóÇ ÃõãøóÉñ íóåúÏõæäó ÈöÇáúÍóÞøö æóÈöåö íóÚúÏöáõæäó {181}(Surah Aa'raaf Ayat 181)

[Pickthal 7:181] And of those whom We created there is a nation who guide with the Truth and establish justice therewith.

Those who have been thoroughly purified by Allah (Ahzab: 33), the Ahl ul Bayt of the Holy Prophet, are the people who guide mankind with truth.

Aqa Mahdi Puya says:

Since the creation of man there had been and should always be a person, present in this world, to guide others with truth. In view of this fact the Holy Prophet has said: "Whosoever dies without recognising the Imam (guide) of his age (in order to follow his guidance) dies the death of an ignorant pagan." According to many authentic traditions this condition remains valid up to the reappearance of the last Imam of the house of the Holy Prophet, the al Qa-im, because after the Holy Prophet, the number of such persons was restricted to twelve by the Holy Prophet himself.

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Surah At Tawba Ayat 19

ÃóÌóÚóáúÊõãú ÓöÞóÇíóÉó ÇáúÍóÇÌøö æóÚöãóÇÑóÉó ÇáúãóÓúÌöÏö ÇáúÍóÑóÇãö ßóãóäú Âãóäó ÈöÇááøåö æóÇáúíóæúãö ÇáÂÎöÑö æóÌóÇåóÏó Ýöí ÓóÈöíáö Çááøåö áÇó íóÓúÊóæõæäó ÚöäÏó Çááøåö æóÇááøåõ áÇó íóåúÏöí ÇáúÞóæúãó ÇáÙøóÇáöãöíä

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[9:19] What! do you make (one who undertakes) the giving of drink to the pilgrims and the guarding of the Sacred Mosque like him who believes in Allah and the latter day and strives hard in Allah's way? They are not equal with Allah; and Allah does not guide the unjust people.

It is with reference to the superiority of Ahl ul Bayt, the ideal believers, as compared with those who boasted about their customary privileges that these verses were revealed.

Wahidi and Suyuti and other commentators have reported that one day Abbas ibn Abd al Muttalib and Talhah ibn Shaybah boasted with one another about their special privileges and honours. Talha said: "I am the keeper of the sacred Ka-bah and I have its keys in my charge." Abbas said: "I am the trustee of the sacred well of Zamzam, and the privilege of supplying water to the pilgrims belongs to me." Ali said: "I do not understand why you take pride in these things. I started saying my prayers seven years before you and I am a warrior who fights for the cause of Allah." On that occasion verse 19 was revealed.

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Since u brothers thought of this beautifull thread and are doing such a fantastic jon of keeping this thread going and more importantly no sunnis have brought anything about the shaikheen (coz there is nothing good about them). i thought of asking some sunnis same question. I only gave one ayat with tafseer, and this what one of them had to say

"don't you have anything better to do? Why you wanna debate something that is undebatable for both of us, I mean you're a shi'a and we are sunnis(muslims), there are countless of differences between you and us, so unless you love debating and writing long posts, getting excited, and showing your superiority, I wonder why you still post on these issues?"

Just one ayat in the shan of Imam Ali (a.s) was enough to make em run :).

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ßóãóÇ ÃóÎúÑóÌóßó ÑóÈøõßó ãöä ÈóíúÊößó ÈöÇáúÍóÞøö æóÅöäøó ÝóÑöíÞÇð ãøöäó ÇáúãõÄúãöäöíäó áóßóÇÑöåõæäó {5}(Surah Anfaal Ayat No. 5)

[Pickthal 8:5] Even as thy Lord caused thee (Muhammad) to go forth from thy home with the Truth, and lo! a party of the believers were averse (to it).

The Holy Prophet learnt that a caravan of the Quraysh laden with merchandise, under Abu Sufyan, was coming from Syria. Abu Sufyan sent a message to Abu Jahl that the Muslims were planning to attack his caravan in order to seize the merchandise he was bringing from Syria. The Holy Prophet, as guided by Allah, decided to leave the caravan and march out boldly against the well-armed and well equipped Quraysh army coming from Makka under the command of Abu Jahl in order to destroy the Muslims in Madina, even though some of the very close companions opposed this policy. There was a party which was not wholeheartedly submissive to the divine order, but Sad bin Ma-adh and Miqdad said: "We will do as the Holy Prophet commands." The Quraysh army, full of zeal and fury, advanced to annihilate from the face of the earth the meagre band of 313 ill-fed and poorly equipped Muslims. The Holy Prophet met the advancing army of Quraysh at Badr situated at a three day's journey from Madina.

Those who were averse to fighting were not convinced that it was a wise or prudent decision, therefore, they felt as if they were being driven to death while death was staring them in the face. They were frightened and perturbed. It was the first trial Muslims were put to in order to prove their faith in the truth. It was also a clear proof that the Holy Prophet was the true messenger of Allah, because unless it was so he would have not risked total annihilation of the handful of Muslims, certain to take place if Allah had not assured him that they would win the battle. By Allah's help they won a splendid victory and the standard of truth was established, never to be lowered again.

Hamza, Ubaydah and Ali were sent by the Holy Prophet to fight against Utbah, Shaybah and Walid in single combat. Ali and Hamza killed all the three combatants but Ubaydah was seriously wounded and succumbed to his injuries. He is the first martyr. Then the general combat began. Ali and Hamza destroyed the army of Quraysh beyond recovery. They ran away to Makka. While Ali and Hamza were in the battlefield, a large number of the Holy Prophet's companions, acclaimed as the heroes of Islam, after his departure from this world, watched the fighting from a safe distance as unconcerned spectators.

In addition to the decision the Holy Prophet took (not to attack the caravan and take possession of the rich booty but to fight against the Quraysh army), the other facts which clearly show that it was the pagans of Makka who took the initiative to attack the Muslims are: the 13 days distance between Makka and Madina-the Muslim travelled 3 days to meet the pagans of Makka at Badr, who had already left Makka 10 days before with full readiness to destroy the Muslims; and the material as well as the mental condition of the Muslims who were so unprepared for such an encounter that they saw nothing but death waiting for them.

An Important Question: Were Shaikhain also included in those who fought in the battle of Badr? If yes then please name the Kufaar they killed :) and also give references from history. I think Shaikhain were among those who opposed Prophet (pbuh) and were not willing to fight. I shall wait for your reply Shaikhain lovers :D

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[Pickthal 8:7] And when Allah promised you one of the two bands (of the enemy) that it should be yours, and ye longed that other than the armed one might be yours. And Allah willed that He should cause the Truth to triumph by His words, and cut the root of the disbelievers;

These verses refer to the two alternatives mentioned in the commentary of verse 5 and 6-the merchandise of the caravan or to face the Makkan army in self-defence. Some of the companions desired to capture the caravan with merchandise guarded by only 40 unarmed men, instead of confronting the strong army of 1000 fully equipped warriors, but the Lord willed otherwise. He desired to put to test their faith and cut off the roots of the infidels.

So some of the companions were behind the caravan with merchandise. Please Shia brothers let the Sunni brothers answer the question i have put in this post about the role of Shaikhain in Badr with references. :)

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íóÇ ÃóíøõåóÇ ÇáøóÐöíäó ÂãóäõæÇú ÃóØöíÚõæÇú Çááøåó æóÑóÓõæáóåõ æóáÇó ÊóæóáøóæúÇ Úóäúåõ æóÃóäÊõãú ÊóÓúãóÚõæäó {20}(Surah Al-Anfar Ayat No. 20)

[Pickthal 8:20] O ye who believe! Obey Allah and His messenger, and turn not away from him when ye hear (him speak).

It is a warning to those who participated in the battle of Badr that the promise made in the preceding verse (Allah is with the believers) will not save them from punishment if they ever turn away from the Holy Prophet and his commands, because as soon as any one turns away from the Holy Prophet he becomes a disbeliever or a hypocrite.

Whenever the Holy Prophet made known Ali's special relationship with Allah and himself, all his notable companions were present, particularly in Ghadir Khum where he declared: "Of whomsoever I am mawla Ali is his mawla " , yet they paid no attention to his last and final call which completed and perfected the religion of Allah, although verse 24 again ordains that the call of Muhammad is the call of Allah. The call of the Holy Prophet invited the people to follow the divinely commissioned Imams among his Ahl ul Bayt who alone were chosen to guide the people unto the right path. It is the duty of every believer to answer the call of the Holy Prophet or any of the Imams of his Ahl ul Bayt to strive in the way of Allah to defend the faith (Jihad).

Aqa Mahdi Puya says:

Every person responds to the call of his desires, but when he submits to the call of Allah or the Holy Prophet his act of submission is due to "the coming of Allah in between a man and his desires", and thus he is prevented from going astray on account of the dictates of his vain desires.

In verse 25 it is made clear that the consequences of social, political and religious deviation will not only harm those who have done injustice to themselves but also equally jeopardise the well-being of those who have done no wrong, therefore all the believers should safeguard themselves against evil by observing the laws made by Allah.

On several occasions the Muslims were put to test and trial (Ahzab: 11). Abu Ayyub Ansari narrates that once the Holy Prophet said to Ammar: "After me you will encounter many troubles. My followers will kill each other. They will sow the seeds of discord among themselves. In such events adhere to Ali, even if all of my followers form an alliance against him. Follow Ali and leave the people to follow whichsoever way they desire. Ali will not turn you away from the right path shown by me. To obey Ali is to obey me, and to obey me is to obey Allah."

Hakim Abul Qasim Asqani says, when this verse was revealed, the Holy Prophet said:

To oppose Ali's successorship after me is to deny my prophethood and the prophethood of all the prophets before me.

According to Imam Hasan bin Ali al Mujtaba verse 25 gives report of the battle of Jaml engineered by Talha, Zubayr and A-isha against Ali. Tafsir al Khashshaf says that once Zubayr asked the Holy Prophet as to how much he loved Ali. The Holy Prophet said:

I love him as no man has ever loved any other man, not even his own son. How evil it will be when you will go to fight against him?

Edited by Aabiss_Shakari

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íóÇ ÃóíøõåóÇ ÇáäøóÈöíøõ ÍóÓúÈõßó Çááøåõ æóãóäö ÇÊøóÈóÚóßó ãöäó ÇáúãõÄúãöäöíäó {64}

[Pickthal 8:64] O Prophet! Allah is Sufficient for thee and those who follow thee of the believers.

In Tafsir Durr al Manthur, Jalal al Din al Suyuti quotes Ibn Asakir for reporting the following sentences, written on the arsh, on the authority of the Holy Prophet:

Allah! I am alone. There is no partner with Me. Muhammad is My servant and messenger. I help him with Ali.

The history of Islam fully confirms this declaration.

Aqa Mahdi Puya says:

Ali played a decisive role in Badr, Khandaq, Uhad, Khaybar, Hunayn and other battles, but Allah attributes the actions of the Holy Prophet and Ali to Himself because both of them were the hands of Allah, and through them He made effective His will. On this basis the Holy Prophet declared before the conquest of the fort of Khaybar:

Ali will not come back until Allah wins victory for us through his hands.

Mulla Abdur Razzaq Muhaddith Hanbali says that this verse was particularly revealed about Ali.

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äøóãóÇ íóÚúãõÑõ ãóÓóÇÌöÏó Çááøåö ãóäú Âãóäó ÈöÇááøåö æóÇáúíóæúãö ÇáÂÎöÑö æóÃóÞóÇãó ÇáÕøóáÇóÉó æóÂÊóì ÇáÒøóßóÇÉó æóáóãú íóÎúÔó ÅöáÇøó Çááøåó ÝóÚóÓóì ÃõæúáóÜÆößó Ãóä íóßõæäõæÇú ãöäó ÇáúãõåúÊóÏöíäó {18}(Surah Towba Ayat No. 18)

[Pickthal 9:18] He only shall tend Allah's sanctuaries who believeth in Allah and the Last Day and observeth proper worship and payeth the poor-due and feareth none save Allah. For such (only) is it possible that they can be of the rightly guided.

ÃóÌóÚóáúÊõãú ÓöÞóÇíóÉó ÇáúÍóÇÌøö æóÚöãóÇÑóÉó ÇáúãóÓúÌöÏö ÇáúÍóÑóÇãö ßóãóäú Âãóäó ÈöÇááøåö æóÇáúíóæúãö ÇáÂÎöÑö æóÌóÇåóÏó Ýöí ÓóÈöíáö Çááøåö áÇó íóÓúÊóæõæäó ÚöäÏó Çááøåö æóÇááøåõ áÇó íóåúÏöí ÇáúÞóæúãó ÇáÙøóÇáöãöíäó {19}

[Pickthal 9:19] Count ye the slaking of a pilgrim's thirst and tendance of the Inviolable Place of Worship as (equal to the worth of) him who believeth in Allah and the Last Day, and striveth in the way of Allah? They are not equal in the sight of Allah. Allah guideth not wrongdoing folk.

It is with reference to the superiority of Ahl ul Bayt, the ideal believers, as compared with those who boasted about their customary privileges that these verses were revealed.

Wahidi and Suyuti and other commentators have reported that one day Abbas ibn Abd al Muttalib and Talhah ibn Shaybah boasted with one another about their special privileges and honours. Talha said: "I am the keeper of the sacred Ka-bah and I have its keys in my charge." Abbas said: "I am the trustee of the sacred well of Zamzam, and the privilege of supplying water to the pilgrims belongs to me." Ali said: "I do not understand why you take pride in these things. I started saying my prayers seven years before you and I am a warrior who fights for the cause of Allah." On that occasion following verse 19 was revealed.

Count ye the slaking of a pilgrim's thirst and tendance of the Inviolable Place of Worship as (equal to the worth of) him who believeth in Allah and the Last Day, and striveth in the way of Allah? They are not equal in the sight of Allah. Allah guideth not wrongdoing folk. (Surah Towba Ayat 19)

:)

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ÞóÏú äóÕóÑóßõãõ Çááøåõ Ýöí ãóæóÇØöäó ßóËöíÑóÉò æóíóæúãó Íõäóíúäò ÅöÐú ÃóÚúÌóÈóÊúßõãú ßóËúÑóÊõßõãú Ýóáóãú ÊõÛúäö Úóäßõãú ÔóíúÆðÇ æóÖóÇÞóÊú Úóáóíúßõãõ ÇáÃóÑúÖõ ÈöãóÇ ÑóÍõÈóÊú Ëõãøó æóáøóíúÊõã ãøõÏúÈöÑöíäó {25}

[Pickthal 9:25] Allah hath given you victory on many fields and on the day of Huneyn, when ye exulted in your multitude but it availed you naught, and the earth, vast as it is, was straitened for you; then ye turned back in flight;

Immediately after the conquest of Makka, the pagan idolaters, under the command of Malik bin Awf, organised a great gathering of 4000 soldiers near Hunayn which is on the road to Tayf from Makka to make plans for attacking the Holy Prophet. The Holy Prophet, with a force of 12000, marched towards Hunayn. For the first time the Muslims had tremendous odds in their favour. On leaving the narrow oasis of Hunayn the road enters winding gorges, suitable for ambuscades. As soon as the Muslim vanguard entered the hilly country, the enemy fell upon them with full fury and caused havoc with their arrows from their places of concealment. Many were slain, and many ran away from the battle as they had done in the battle of Uhad. Those who were acclaimed as the heroes of Islam, after the departure of the Holy Prophet from this world, were among the deserters.

Abu Qatada says:

"The Muslims took to flight. I was also among them. Suddenly I saw Umar ibn Khattab among those who were running away. I asked him: 'What has happened?' He said: 'It is the will of Allah.'"(Sahih Bukhari Vol. 3, p. 45.) :)

According to some traditions Ali ibn abi Talib, Abbas ibn Abd al Muttalib, Abu Sufyan ibn Harith and Abdullah ibn Masud were the only four persons who stayed with the Holy Prophet. Some say there were ten persons who did not run away. Ali stood in front of the Holy Prophet and stopped every attack made by the enemy to slay him. The Holy Prophet called those who were deserting to come back. Some of them returned and joined Ali to launch a counter attack on the enemy. When Ali killed Abu Jarul, the standard bearer of the enemy army, a general retreat began to take place among the invaders, which soon turned into chaos and then flight. In this way a most crushing defeat was inflicted on the enemy.

After the battle, on the instructions of the Holy Prophet, the spoils of war taken by the Muslims, were returned to those who embraced Islam. Some refused to comply with his orders. In such cases the Holy Prophet compensated them.

When one companion protested that the Holy Prophet had not done justice in the matter of distributing the spoils of war, some people wanted to kill him, but the Holy Prophet stopped them and said: "Wait. Such people, on their own, one day will go out of the true faith, then the best of men among you will kill him." And that man was killed by Ali in the battle of Nahrawan.

Aqa Mahdi Puya says:

The believers who stayed with the Holy Prophet on the day of Hunayn also received the divine tranquillity (sakinah), along with the Holy Prophet. In verse 40 of this surah it is said that the companion of the Holy Prophet in the cave was deprived of this tranquillity.

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íõÑöíÏõæäó Ãóä íõØúÝöÄõæÇú äõæÑó Çááøåö ÈöÃóÝúæóÇåöåöãú æóíóÃúÈóì Çááøåõ ÅöáÇøó Ãóä íõÊöãøó äõæÑóåõ æóáóæú ßóÑöåó ÇáúßóÇÝöÑõæä(Surah Towba Ayat 32)}

[Pickthal 9:32] Fain would they put out the light of Allah with their mouths, but Allah disdaineth (aught) save that He shall perfect His light, however much the disbelievers are averse.

False teachers and preachers try to distort the message of Allah by the false words (conjectures) of their mouths, so that they may put out the "light", for they are people of darkness and ignorance, but Allah has perfected His light- light implies the light of guidance completed and perfected at Ghadir Khum by declaring the wilayah of Imam Ali.

Through the Holy Prophet and his Ahl ul Bayt, Allah made His (true) religion a signal success. For the men of understanding the true teaching of Islam is the best code of law for human society. The ultimate triumph of Islam will be witnessed when Imam Muhammad bin Hasan al Mahdi al Qa-im, the last true successor of the Holy Prophet, will come in this world, with the permission of Allah, to unite the whole mankind as a single community, to live in peace and harmony, doing away with injustice, exploitation and polytheism, guided by the divine laws made by Allah. The divine laws have been perfected and completed and named Islam, after which the laws given to other people in the days of earlier prophets, preceding the Holy Prophet, became inoperative and subservient to Islamic laws. In theory and practice Islamic laws and teachings surpass all creeds. However much the polytheists and the hypocrites may try to stop the ultimate victory of Islam under the guidance of the living Imam, the al Qa-im, it is certain to take place. Verse 28 of Fat-h and verse 9 of Saff also give the glad tidings of the ultimate victory of Islam when al Qa-im comes in this world.

Abu Dawud, Tirmidhi, Ahmad ibn Hanbal, Abu Yula, Hakim, Suyuti, Tabarani, Darqatni, Abu Nu-aym, Khatib and Ibn Asakir and many others have accepted the fact of the ultimate rule of Imam Mahdi, who is the last of the twelve successors of the Holy Prophet from among his Ahl ul Bayt. Even the precursor of Wahabi sect, Ibn Taymiyah, has accepted as true all the traditions pertaining to the "reign of Imam Muhammad bin Hasan al Mahdi" (refer to his book "Majmu-atul Fatawa".)

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æóãöäúåõã ãøóä íóáúãöÒõßó Ýöí ÇáÕøóÏóÞóÇÊö ÝóÅöäú ÃõÚúØõæÇú ãöäúåóÇ ÑóÖõæÇú æóÅöä áøóãú íõÚúØóæúÇú ãöäåóÇ ÅöÐóÇ åõãú íóÓúÎóØõæäó {58}(Surah Towba Ayat No. 58)

[Pickthal 9:58] And of them is he who defameth thee in the matter of the alms. If they are given thereof they are content, and if they are not given thereof, behold! they are enraged.

On the authority of Bukhari, Nisa-i and other traditionists, it has been reported in Tafsir Durr al Manthur that while the Holy Prophet was distributing some spoils of war a man from the Banu Tamim, Dhul Khuyasarah, came and said: "O Messenger of Allah, please do justice." The Holy Prophet replied: "Woe to you. Who would do justice if I am doing injustice?" Umar bin Khattab said: "O Messenger of Allah, give me permission to kill him." The Holy Prophet said: "Leave him alone. There are men like him among you whose observance of prayers and fasting will make you feel small, but one day they will go out of the faith as an arrow leaves the bow. They are called mariqin. There will be discord among the Muslims and these men will revolt under the leadership of a man with one breast like a woman." Abu Sayeed Khudhri says: "When Ali killed such people in the battle of Naharwan, I was with him. I saw the slain body of the man described by the Holy Prophet lying on the ground."

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My dear brothers,

Kuffar are riding on muslims all over the world. Prophet Muhammad (pbuh) said standing in front of Ka'abah "you are the most valuable thing for Allah but there is just one thing more valuable for you - one drop of a muslim blood".

With this, you can see the west charging on us from everywhere and all muslim rulers across the world are bowing down to America. Pakistan which can become the centre of a true Islamic state is being ruined by the coward and tyrant rulers and US army is invading in Pakistan and Afghanistan using the Pakistani govnment. Have you ever thought and discussed about these issues rather than discussing Shia and Sunniis?

If you think that in the current situation, we should be discussing shia and sunniism instead of thinking and discussing about the kuffar and their growing involvement in muslim world, you should mentor your thoughts immediately and close these useless chat seesions.

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The object of the thread is not to create hatred among the muslim ummah. The only intention to check the status of Shaikhain and Hazrat Ali (as) on the touchstone of Holy Quran and to seek the truth. I highly appreciate, if you can take part in this good work :).

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I want active participation from other Shia brothers. I shall be thankful to you guys :)

Dear Aabiss Shakari and all others, I want to draw your attention towards an interesting fact:

Earlier, a sunni brother posted a sunni hadith that RasulAllah (s) loved Hazrat Ayesha most, then Abu Bakr and then Umar. However, within sunni hadith literature, there are hadiths which speak the same for Syedna Imam Ali (a) and Sayida Fatima (a). So according to other versions in sunni hadith literature, Imam Ali (a) and Sayida Fatima (a) were the most beloved of RasulAllah (s).

One can only wonder why sunnis accept one and reject the other.

I recommend all sunnis to pick up a copy of Khasais -i- Ameerul Momineen written by one of the grreat Sunni Imams, Imam Nasai. And you will find that the merit of hadiths on Imam Ali (a) is far greater than those related for anyone else.

For example, one of the hadith related in the same book has RasulAllah (s) telling Imam Ali (a) that "Oh Ali... Allah has granted me whatever I've asked from Him in Salat. And whatever I've asked for myself, I have asked for you too"

SubhanAllah! The above is a sunni hadith. And its easy to see that Imam Ali (a) is the greatest after RasulAllah (s) - provided one is truthful, objective and not prejudiced.

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Mashallah nice brother Al-Zulfiqar. We are moving ahead of verse 58 of Surah Towba while discussing the merits of Ali bin Abi talib (as) in Holy Quran. I hope that some one proceed and discuss verse praising Ali (as). Still i hope my Sunni brothers may present a verse of Holy Quran praising Shaikhain. Hoping against hope :)

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æóáóÆöä ÓóÃóáúÊóåõãú áóíóÞõæáõäøó ÅöäøóãóÇ ßõäøóÇ äóÎõæÖõ æóäóáúÚóÈõ Þõáú ÃóÈöÇááøåö æóÂíóÇÊöåö æóÑóÓõæáöåö ßõäÊõãú ÊóÓúÊóåúÒöÆõæäó {65}

[Pickthal 9:65] And if thou ask them (O Muhammad) they will say: We did but talk and jest. Say: Was it at Allah and His revelations and His messenger that ye did scoff?

Tirmidhi, Nisa-i and other traditionists relate that the Holy Prophet said: "O Ali, none will love you save a believer and none will bear ill-will against you save a hypocrite." It is also reported by them that in the lifetime of the Holy Prophet people used to identify the true believers by their love for Ali and the hypocrites by the ill-will they showed against Ali.

According to Fat-hul Bari (Sharha Sahih Bukhari), Musnad ibn Hambal, Tarikh al Tabari and others A-isha hated Ali so much that she did not like to mention his name whenever she wanted to make a reference to him, nor she liked any one mentioning his name. At last she organised a revolt against him, fought a battle at Jaml but lost it miserably.

Love of Shaikhain or enmity with them does not seem so important before Islam :)

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salam,

hazrat fatima,ali,hasan and hussainn no comparison period.

but companions are worthy of respect to.

dont need quranic evidence to prove this as no comparisons cannot be made so i dont know why teh purpose of thos thread.

waslam

oh dear copy and pasting??lol

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Salaam

salam,

hazrat fatima,ali,hasan and hussainn no comparison period.

but companions are worthy of respect to.

dont need quranic evidence to prove this as no comparisons cannot be made so i dont know why teh purpose of thos thread.

waslam

oh dear copy and pasting??lol

Alhumdulillah you see this! This thread exists because most Sunnis believe that Abu Baker is superior to Imam 'Ali (a).

Salawaat.

Wasalaam.

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first of all

who the hell claimed that Sahabas are superior when compared to Hazrat Ali(Ra)

this itself makes it clear that the topic starter(Aabiss_Shakari) has no idea what he talking about

plus it also makes it very clear that all of his material is copy pasted with, he has not even gone through the sources making sure if they are reliable or not

last time I was debating this guy maula dha mallang

he quoted an arabic dictionary as a source

lolzzz

lets go with the common sources they are using

al-Kamil fi al-Tareekh by Tabari

this is what Tabari has to say in his introduction

I shall likewise mention those (narrators) who came after them, giving additional information about them. I do this so that it can be clarified whose transmission (of traditions) is praised and whose information is transmitted, whose transmission is to be rejected and whose transmission is to be disregarded�The reader should know that with respect to all I have mentioned and made it a condition to set down in this book of mine, I rely upon traditions and reports which have been transmitted and which I attribute to their transmitters. I rely only very rarely upon (my own) rationality and internal thought processes. For no knowledge of the history of men of the past and of recent men and events is attainable by those who were not able to observe them and did not live in their time, except through information and transmission produced by informants and transmitters. This knowledge cannot be brought out by reason or produced by internal thought processes. This book of mine may contain some information mentioned by me on the authority of certain men of the past, which the reader may disapprove of and the listener may find detestable, because he can find nothing sound and no real meaning in it. In such cases, he should know that it is not my fault that such information comes to him, but the fault of someone who transmitted it to me. I have merely reported it as it was reported to me.

(Tareekh at-Tabari, Vol.1, Introduction)

Tabari himself never claimed his book is full of authentic narrations

but he wanted us to authenticate the material by looking at the chain of narrators

maula dha mallang favorite source

Musnad ibn Hanbal

full of fabricated hadiths

even Hanbalis rejected this book

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Musnad_Ahmad_ibn_Hanbal

In Dur al-Manthur, Imam Suyuti compiled all the reports and narrations that he could gather for each particular passage

he never authenticated anything neither in this book he gave his personal view of the narrations if they are authentic or not

his other book Tafsir al-Jalalayn which he gives his own opinion, indicating his understanding of the verses

here is an example

Tafsir al-Jalalayn tafsir on 5:55 which shia believe refers to Ali(ra)

When [�Abd AllÄh] Ibn SalÄm said, �O Messenger of God, our people have shunned us�, the following was revealed: Your patron is God only, and His Messenger, and the believers who establish prayer and pay the alms, bowing down, humble, or performing voluntary prayers.

Suyuti does not believe this verses refers to Ali

the truth is Shias have no idea about how Sunnis preserve the hadiths

many sunni scholars preserved even those hadiths which they themselves thought were weak or fabricated

they gave us the chians of narrations so we can differentiate Sahih Hadiths from Fabricated Hadiths

thats why Bukhari and Muslim are the only two considered Sahih because they consisted only authentic hadiths, in other word hadiths with reliable narrators

Salaam

Alhumdulillah you see this! This thread exists because most Sunnis believe that Abu Baker is superior to Imam 'Ali (a).

Salawaat.

Wasalaam.

are you kidding me :!!!:

for the last time we don't believe Abu Bakr is superior to Ali

this shows your ignorance of our faith

Edited by HassanKhan

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thats why Bukhari and Muslim are the only two considered Sahih because they consisted only authentic hadiths, in other word hadiths with reliable narrators

are you kidding me :!!!:

for the last time we don't believe Abu Bakr is superior to Ali

this shows your ignorance of our faith

Hassan Khan, please stop either plain lying or at least try to unfuddle the cloud in your brain.

Sahih Bukhari, 57; Companions Of The Prophet:

Narrated Ibn 'Umar: We used to compare the people as to who was better during the lifetime of Allah's Apostle . We used to regard Abu Bakr as the best, then 'Umar, and then 'Uthman .

Narrated Muhammad bin Al-Hanafiya: I asked my father ('Ali bin Abi Talib), "Who are the best people after Allah's Apostle ?" He said, "Abu Bakr." I asked, "Who then?" He said, "Then 'Umar. " I was afraid he would say "Uthman, so I said, "Then you?" He said, "I am only an ordinary person.

Narrated Ibn 'Abbas: The Prophet said, "If I were to take a Khalil, I would have taken Abu Bakr, but he is my brother and my companion (in Islam)."

... and countless other similar fabrications manufactured by Saqifa Publications © to bolster the 3 Kings usurpation of Imam Ali's (as) right.

Now in your first sentence above you asserted both Bukhari and Muslim are 100% authentic - so tell me, why is it you don't consider Abu Bakr superior (naudhobillah) to Imam Ali (as)? Are these hadeeth not enough for you? Or are you a shiah in disguise, planted here to heap more ridicule on the Umari madhab?

ALI

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first of all

who the hell claimed that Sahabas are superior when compared to Hazrat Ali(Ra)

this itself makes it clear that the topic starter(Aabiss_Shakari) has no idea what he talking about

plus it also makes it very clear that all of his material is copy pasted with, he has not even gone through the sources making sure if they are reliable or not

I appreciate your admission of truth that Umer, Abu Bakar and Usman were not superior to Ali (as) in every aspect. But ask the Wahabis before admitting this. Definitely they will mind it :).

Now let me ask you when they were not superior as compared to Ali (as) then why they usurped Khilafah from Ali (as) when Imam (as) was busy in the funeral of Hazrat Muhammad (pbuh). Was not this injustice with the institution of Khilafah? It means they are rightly termed as "Khayan" "Kazib" and "Munafiq"?

This admission will take you far away dear.....

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are you kidding me :!!!:

for the last time we don't believe Abu Bakr is superior to Ali

this shows your ignorance of our faith

Walaikum

Dude, born and raised Sunni. Now Shi'a, alhumdulillah. Always taught, EVERYYEAR of islamic school, that the order of great people after Rasulullah (sawaw) was conveniently in the order of their political khulafa: Abu Baker, Umar, Uthman and THEN Imam 'Ali (as).

Wasalaam

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