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In the Name of God بسم الله

Pope To Apologise For Sex Scandal

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Pope Benedict XVI has begun a nine-day visit to Australia, where he is due to apologise for decades of sexual abuse of children by priests.

As he began the longest foreign trip of his papacy, he said paedophilia was "incompatible" with being a priest.

Australian abuse victims have said they will hold protests during his visit.

Climate change will also be a leading theme at a major Catholic youth festival, World Youth Day, which the Pope is heading in Sydney.

The event is expected to draw some 200,000 young Catholics to the city.

But the six-day event has been overshadowed by the launch of an investigation into sexual abuse allegations.

The leader of Australia's Catholics, Cardinal George Pell, has come under criticism for his handling of a 1982 case allegedly involving the sexual abuse of 29-year-old man by a priest.

The BBC's Nick Bryant in Sydney says that many victims want the Pope to directly criticise the Australian Catholic hierarchy for its handling of abuse allegations.

Lifestyle change

"It is essential for the Church to reconcile, to prevent, to help and to see guilt in this problem," Pope Benedict told reporters during his 20-hour flight to Sydney.

We have to face up to this great challenge... to change the situation of the environment for the good

Pope Benedict XVI

In pictures: Pope in Australia

"It must be clear... that being a real priest is incompatible with this (sexual abuse) because priests are in the service of our Lord," he said.

As the Pope arrived in Sydney, Australian Prime Minister Kevin Rudd said he was "an honoured guest among us".

During his trip, the Pope will also meet Aborigine groups, and is likely to repeat an apology made by Pope John Paul to Australia's indigenous people for injustices carried out by Catholic missionaries.

He also told reporters he wanted to wake up consciences, to make politicians and experts respond to environmental issues.

"We have to face up to this great challenge and find the ethical capacity to change the situation of the environment for the good," said Pope Benedict.

But he made it clear he had no intention of addressing any specific political or technical questions about climate change.

Open-air Mass

The 81-year Pope's medical advisers have taken elaborate steps to protect his health during the gruelling 20-hour flight from Italy, says the BBC's David Willey in Rome.

A special sleeping compartment has been prepared on the Alitalia plane and the German pontiff will spend three full days resting at a Catholic study centre before appearing at the head of a Sydney Harbour flotilla on Thursday.

He was met by Australian prime minister Kevin Rudd on his arrival at Sydney airport.

Pope Benedict will close his trip by presiding over an open-air Mass on 20 July at Sydney's Randwick Racecourse, which is expected to draw hundreds of thousands of pilgrims.

The Pope's visit - his ninth outside Italy - has created controversy with demonstrators vowing to protest against the Church's stand on homosexuality and birth control.

In response, authorities in the state of New South Wales have introduced new laws bringing the threat of heavy fines to anyone causing annoyance to pilgrims.

Civil liberty groups have denounced such sanctions as unnecessary and repugnant.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/asia-pacific/7503246.stm

Edited by Yiligiz
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Pedophilia represent Catholic Christianity. They introduced the law of celibacy by reversing a previous law where priests were allowed to marry. So we must blame Catholic Christianity for this crime.

But I dont what purpose will an apology serve since the act itself will prevail as long the idiot doctrine of celibacy sustains.

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Pope sorry for priests' sex abuse

Pope Benedict XVI gives a mass in Sydney

Pope Benedict XVI has told Australians he is deeply sorry for the sexual abuse of children by some Catholic priests.

Speaking at a gathering of bishops during his visit to Australia, the Pope spoke of the "shame we have all felt" and called for abusers to face justice.

He said the deeds of abusive clergymen were a great betrayal of trust, which damaged the Catholic Church.

A campaign group has criticised the speech, saying the Pope should have met some victims to apologise in person.

"Sorry is not enough. Victims want action, not just words," the Broken Rites group said in a statement.

'Misdeeds'

There was no immediate confirmation of whether the pontiff would meet abuse victims - as he did during a US trip in April, when he also expressed shame for the scandal.

Speaking during mass at St Mary's Cathedral in Sydney, he said: "I am deeply sorry for the pain and suffering the victims have endured.

"These misdeeds, which constitute so grave a betrayal of trust, deserve unequivocal condemnation.

"Those responsible for these evils must be brought to justice."

Broken Rites, which had wanted the Pope to meet some of the victims in person, says there have been 107 convictions against Catholic clergymen on sex charges in Australia.

But the campaigners estimate the number of victims to be in the thousands.

The BBC's Nick Bryant, in Sydney, says victims have complained that the Church in Australia has tried to stall compensation claims and cover up certain cases.

The Pope is visiting Australia to mark World Youth Day, which is drawing Catholics from around the world to the country.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/asia-pacific/7515079.stm

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So we must blame Catholic Christianity for this crime.

Sexual aberration is not limited to Catholics. Protestants have similar problems. They have had to contend with victims of sexual abuse and of gay clergy in America, Australia as well as other countries. The Anglican bishop of New Hampshire, Gene Robinson, is gay.

The extraordinary thing is that sex abuse is not prevalent among the clergy of other faiths - Jewish, Muslim, etc ___ at least not to this extent.

Recently, the Catholic Church has paid 750 million dollars to victims of sex abuse in the Los Angeles area. Protestant churches are also suffering from the stigma of unlawful sexual activity by their clergy.

And while the Pope keeps hopping around he globe apologising to victims of abuse, there is no research being done as to why sex crimes are far more prevalent among Christian priests than among others.

Also, no strategy appears to be in the pipeline, to prevent or at least contain this malaise in future.

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Also, no strategy appears to be in the pipeline, to prevent or at least contain this malaise in future.

I dont know if you ever watched a BBC documentary aired a few years back on this issue amongst others. It was called Sex and the Holy City. What really alarmed me was a non priestly related case in South America where a Catholic man raped his very young daughter and she got pregnant. Naturally not only did it cause some furore in the local community but the family's desire for an abortion was adamantly declined by the "Church".

And you are right on the skewed Christian ethics on sexuality. A book (In God's Name by D Yallop) written about the murder of the Pope who reigned for 33 days which then installed the then John Paul as Pope. In that book it detailed the Vatican's dodgy financial dealings and relations with the Mafia. There were 2 claims in that book that i still remember

1 - The Vatican has shares in a condom factory

2 - The author has a picture of John Paul at a private pool side party sitting nude.

I am wondering how grounded to reality the Vatican really is?

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And while the Pope keeps hopping around he globe apologising to victims of abuse, there is no research being done as to why sex crimes are far more prevalent among Christian priests than among others.

The reason why sexual morality among Christian clergy is lowest in the world, in comparison to other religions, is that the Church has always treated sex very lightly.

When Hollywood was clawing its way into the lives and values of people all over the world, the Church watched quietly.

After the second world war, as unlawful sexual activity was on the increase in America and Europe, the Church watched silently.

As Christian women wore less and less and exposed more and more of their bodies, the Church watched without a flutter.

And as more and more couples have been living together out of wedlock, the Church continues to watch, with a word of admonishment or reprimand.

What morals can you expect from a people whose moral leadership is so weak ?

Take any country with an overwhelming Christian population, the estimate is that less than 0.01 % of the people have refrained from unlawful sex - pre-marital sex, fornication, adultery, sodomy, living together etc., as opposed to a much higher proportion in countries which have other religions in the majority.

Yes, it is quite true that in terms of sexual morality, the morals of the Christain clergy and the Christian people are the lowest in the whole wide world.

I am wondering how grounded to reality the Vatican really is?

The Church will have to wage full scale war against sexual immorality, if it can ever hope for improving the morality of its people and its clergy.

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I agree. But i wonder if they will ever wake up and attack the false doctrine of celibacy.

Well, the Catholic Church is the only one that requires celibacy from its priests. And it does not seem like it is not going to abandon its approach.

But sexual immorality exists not only among Catholic but also the non-Catholic priests. According to Christian teachings, Jesus said that even if you look at a woman lustfully, you have already committed sin.

But the Church never never never tries to press home this point. Paying lip service is about the most it will care to do. The result is what you see - Christian society is the most permissive and promiscuous in the whole wide world.

As I said, it is hard to find a Christian who could be labelled as chaste. They defy and disobey the teachings of Christ in matters of sex, to the fullest.

That does not mean that Christians are a bad people. There are the good and the bad among them just like every other group. But in matters of sex, thanks to the laxity of their churches, their morality is the lowest in the whole wide world.

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As I said, it is hard to find a Christian who could be labelled as chaste. They defy and disobey the teachings of Christ in matters of sex, to the fullest.

That does not mean that Christians are a bad people. There are the good and the bad among them just like every other group. But in matters of sex, thanks to the laxity of their churches, their morality is the lowest in the whole wide world.

Not that i disagree but there are 2 kinds of immorality in this regard. The first one is promiscuity which is consensual. With dirty priests and kids, for me thats the worst kind cos the prey is abused by a figure of trust. They are young and impressionable. They remain silent for years owing to fear and stigma.

Thats the one they have to get rid of first and soon by reversing the celibacy laws. The need is dire.

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Certain professions attract certain types of deviants. A sadist is more likely to be found in uniform because this position puts him in power over those of lesser rank. This person can easily inflict physical and psychological pain and still stay just inside the rules. Of course they always find a ways to cross the line until they go to far. They somebody dies.

Sexual predators just wear a different type of sheep’s skin in their hunt for prey. In all denominations the clergy put these predators in a position of trust and in contact with the young and socially unguarded. Catholics are not anymore liable then any other religion.

The only reason Catholics have a reputation is that this organization have wealth that government organizations can go after in legal procedures. Now that the Catholic Church is trying to limit its liability by screening out the deviants, I would say this church may have fewer monsters in its ranks then other denominations. That is a big maybe, because in some places the rot goes right through the heart wood. The Pope does not have the control that many people think he has. As one American Bishop said, "I'm not a branch manager for the Pope." This just shows the extent of the rot in the American Catholic Church.

Edited by Spriglief
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This just shows the extent of the rot in the American Catholic Church.

The rot exists also in other Catholic churches. For example, Australia is just as bad. And indeed, it exists in other denominations as well.

As other posters have noted, the Church has always ignored its responsibility in pressing the point of unlawful sexual activity being sinful and the importance of the need to avoid sin. That, I think, has been the biggest problem.

And as I mentioned earlier, it is worth pondering why Christian priests (Catholic and non-Catholic) are more promiscuous and more likely to be guilty of sexual abuse than priests of other religions.

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The rot exists also in other Catholic churches. For example, Australia is just as bad. And indeed, it exists in other denominations as well.

As other posters have noted, the Church has always ignored its responsibility in pressing the point of unlawful sexual activity being sinful and the importance of the need to avoid sin. That, I think, has been the biggest problem.

You are tremendously misinformed. I don't know where you are getting these bizarre impressions. There's nothing ambiguous about Catholic teachings against pre and extramarital sex.

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Baqar, I think I have already answered that question. The Catholic Church is like a large corporation with assets that can be gone after by a government. I'm not talking about one church, or Mosque. I'm talking about a large organization with stock, pay roll, employee's, land, all of which can be held hostage if the organization can be held complicit in the crime of one of it members.

A Baptist sexual predator’s minister is just going to move the next state if things get hot for him and the church committee and the little piece of land they own is not worth the effort of a big time lawyer. When a Catholic Bishop orders a priest to another parish, a case can be made that the Bishop and all that districts property is liable. So you are going to see more public criminal cases in the news with Catholics then you are with other religions.

Edited by Spriglief
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You are tremendously misinformed.

About what ? Please be specific. What in my posts constitutes a piece of misinformation ?

I don't know where you are getting these bizarre impressions.

Which bizarre impressions ?

There's nothing ambiguous about Catholic teachings against pre and extramarital sex.

Did I say there was ? If you think I did, please provide reference where, you think, I have made that assertion.

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The local Baptist church in Delco had a child molester as their youth director. Nobody sued the Baptist church or even held it to blame. If anything, the Baptist Church not twenty miles up the road should have been held accountable as this was his second conviction. The Baptist minister did quit his job a few months later, probably because he was about to be fired by the church committee. (Note: he was a wonderful person and an inspiration to his congregation and can be counted as one of the victims of the criminal)

I know this is antidotal evidence, but I maintain that child molesters will gravitate to positions that allow them to prey on their victims. You will find them wherever there is a position of trust and power over children and the Catholic Church has assets and money that lawyers can get their hands on. A Baptist church cannot be held accountable because of the way they are structured. Every Baptist minister is essentially an independent contractor and this protects their assets.

Soon we will see other large organized chuches in the courts.

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Did I say there was ? If you think I did, please provide reference where, you think, I have made that assertion.
the Church has always ignored its responsibility in pressing the point of unlawful sexual activity being sinful and the importance of the need to avoid sin.
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And as I mentioned earlier, it is worth pondering why Christian priests (Catholic and non-Catholic) are more promiscuous and more likely to be guilty of sexual abuse than priests of other religions.

It happens in our own religion, so we should look to preventing that before worrying about others.

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BintAlHoda is right. The churches shield these criminals because they know that the criminal courts are not interested in prosecuting the deviant so much as they are interested in going after the churches wealth. If the church could give these men and women up to the criminal courts, and not be held liable, the church would lose it incentive to shield these predators.

Then they should be executed, jailed forever, or given psychological medical aid and then released with a GPS monitoring device attached to their ankle, forever. Some say their condition is incurable and can give statistical evidence to prove it. The X youth minister/choir director I mention in prior post was later found with children's pictures on his computer after he was released from jail from his second offense. I believe his suffering wife was the one who turned him in. He will not be out for a very long long time.

Note: When he come out he better not come back here or they might or might not find his body in the Green Swamp.

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It happens in our own religion, so we should look to preventing that before worrying about others.

Something to keep in mind is that many of these scandals are documenting abuses which happened decades ago. They may appear to be massive amounts of sexual impropriety going on, but one must remember that many of these cases are several decades old. Some jurisdictions have extended the statute of limitations to allow cases to proceed.

That said, I agree to an extent with Spriglief's assessment -- if it were just a matter of the criminal aspects of these cases, I suspect that many of these priests would have been handed over to the authorities years ago. One of the reasons given for celibacy for Catholic priests concerned the loss of church property to spouses and children -- it was not always the cases that religious / spiritual leaders of the Catholic church were celibate.

The Catholic sex scandals are made all the worst by several facts.

The first is that the Catholic Church is more monolithic in organizational structure than any other religion at present. There are very few countries in which the Catholic Church has no presence (I'm aware of none -- someone can correct me if they are aware of any) and in all those instances, the church, however small, has a connection back to the Vatican. This leads to all sexual offenses by Catholic clergy being a part of the overall problem of sexual abuse by Catholic clergy. This is not the case for any other Christian denomination as most have schisms at some level, or have political or geographical divisions. Even if it were the case, the Catholic Church accounts for more than half of all Christians, thus making it impossible for any other Christian group to be larger.

The second is that coverup by the Catholic Church has been particular egregious. Because of its size and geographical scope, the Catholic Church has been able to move offending priests from one parish to the next. There is significant evidence, much of it gathered at trial, that clergy sex abuse was known by church leadership. It is unimaginable that any other organizational structure, besides what exists within the Catholic Church, would have facilitated this conduct. There is no reason to believe that, for example, a Baptist church would knowingly accept a Presbyterian minister who'd been guilty of sexual abuse.

The third is that even if the organizational structure of the Catholic Church is ignored, the sheer size of the Catholic Church, over 1 billion members, means that it will have more total cases of sexual abuse, all other things being equal. Meaning, even if all instances of Jewish, Muslim and Protestant Christian sexual abuses were reported, there would still be more reported instances of Catholic sexual abuses simply because there are more Catholics than Jews, Muslims or Protestants.

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