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In the Name of God بسم الله
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Maula Dha Mallang

Sayeds Of South Asian Descent

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salams and ya ali madat all

its been an interest of mine for a while to ask if we could possibly gather some info as to the history of shia sayyeds who class themselves as paki/indian/bengali in origin?

i want to possibly (if people can provide shajras) see which key sayyed people, after the imams, migrated from arabia/ iran and settled in south asia, from which the south asian sayyed families descended from, there must be many overlapping people in all shajrahs?

also it would be very interesting to see a timescale of when this migration happened, how long it took and why the ancestors settled in the places they did and what they got up2 after they did

like i said, its just an interest. if its too personal to add sharjarahs then by all means just miss out the latest 2 or 3 generations so we cant find out who u are :)

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I'd like to stay anonymous so no shajrahs.

My forefather migrated from Iran during the time of the moghul king Babar who had ties with the Iranian royal family and called for reinforcements to take care of his rebel general Sher Shah Suri. I am a descendant of Imam Musa Kazim (as).

Edited by Abu Dujana

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thanks bro, if possible could you provide a single name of an ancestor who emigrated, and where he emigrated to?

i have a theory that all the sayeds shajras from the region will, at some point, converge at a single point/ few people who were responsible for the shia sayed nation in that region.

to be honest i got the idea of this thread from ghenghis khan - if something like 1 in 6 people in the world descend from him it would be interesting to see if a few key people in history founded all the sayed families we see today

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salam new here interesting discussion . i am hasan abidi descendant of imam abid zainulabideen Ali ibn Husayn (as) originally from arabia moved to mashad iran then pakistan area now its part of pakistan current resident in united states.

thats all i know. fee amanillah.

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salam new here interesting discussion . i am hasan abidi descendant of imam abid zainulabideen Ali ibn Husayn (as) originally from arabia moved to mashad iran then pakistan area now its part of pakistan current resident in united states.

thats all i know. fee amanillah.

salams brother. welcome to shiachat :) how are you finding it so far?

thanks for the info. i believe that pretty much EVERY sayed family can trace its emigration pattern from arabia -> iran -> south asia, thats what makes this so interesting to find out...could there be a few families who founded an entire nation?

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salams brother. welcome to shiachat :) how are you finding it so far?

thanks for the info. i believe that pretty much EVERY sayed family can trace its emigration pattern from arabia -> iran -> south asia, thats what makes this so interesting to find out...could there be a few families who founded an entire nation?

salams again. its nice am getting used to it. that is interesting information that you have given that almost all sayeds can be traced from the same itinerary chart and are possibly a single family as such. i didnt gather from your messages whether you were a sayed yourself or not.

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(wasalam) hopefully this thread will shed some light on whether i am right and there is a single couple/ family who are responsible for the descent of the sayeds. i think we would need a pretty significant input from members tho, so im a bit cautious with my hopes of its success, what with people not wanting to post personal info and so on. still, talking about ancestors centuries ago would not really give potential stalkers enough info to stalk anyone lol

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Salaam

We are Naqvi Syeds from Imam Ali Naqi (as) and we are also known as Bukhari I was told that this is because of a place we settled in called Bukhar and that is located in Azerbaijaan formely part of Russia. I think In Pakistan however the first place was Uch Sharif were the darbaar is and that Awliyah buried there was our forefather. I do not know much more information but will try to find out.

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Ofcourse there could be few families who resulted into generations of nations. Adam (as) ? I'm not really sure though of this syed thing.. I recently found out through this very forum that my family name is actually a region in Iran.. I was stunned

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Ofcourse there could be few families who resulted into generations of nations. Adam (as) ? I'm not really sure though of this syed thing.. I recently found out through this very forum that my family name is actually a region in Iran.. I was stunned

LOL...what, theres an area called "ease"?? lol do you have a shajra/ family history?

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My Forefathers came from Afghanistan, Allah knows our entire lineage from the times of Adam but my forefathers, great grandfather, grand father, father carried the title of Sayyid. Our lineage records was never kept from sometime due to various factors during pre independence time of India, maybe to hide our Muslim identity and being killed by religious fanatics. And please note that all Sayyids did not come from the Persian side called Iran.

Edited by hyderabadi

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Well now my forum name is obviously not my real name maula, actually the region is Khalkhal.

lol yeah bro...it was a joke...obviously one that crashed and burned :( no one ever gets my sense of humour!

on a serious not tho bro, one thing ive noticed is that, apart from the obvious "shah", most of the sayeds who have their shajras to hand usually have a surname which relates back to either a place in iran or generally somewhere near where an imam lived, or failing that a surname which matches their imam eg kazmi, abidi, jaffri and so on.

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(salam)

its been an interest of mine for a while to ask if we could possibly gather some info as to the history of shia sayyeds who class themselves as paki/indian/bengali in origin?

The writing on our Shajara - letters written - are in Farsi so I don't know much what exactly is written. Maybe someone who can read Farsi, translate it. This is the 2nd half of the writing where it ends. The date recorded is 6th Safar, 1303 Hijri.

From what I can make out it says they travelled from this city to that city. I can see the name Kashmir and Pothwaar. It says at the bottom that some of the people from this family are still in Kashmir. There are a few other scanned pages which are filled with writing as well, maybe I can get them translated by someone.

shajra-6.jpg

Anyways, so the tree starts from Imam Ali (as):

shajra-7.jpg

Then goes till Imam Naqi (as) and to his son Jafar:

shajra-P5.jpg

Then there is this one name at the bottom, looks big and colourful, I think he was one of the people who moved from one place to another and settled there:

shajra-P7.jpg

Then moving along the years, you see the name at the bottom Syed Anwar Shah, I believe he was the one who moved to the village - which doesn't exist any more, in present day Islamabad, the village was called "Narala". His grave is there still beside some of my other ancestors.

shajra-P9.jpg

The tree continues till my dad's dad and also my mom's dad. I want to continue it, good thing we have it scanned and saved now. Maybe some of the other pieces of writing describe where these people went. It seems as if they migrated to Bukhara first and then to Kashmir and then from Kashmir some of them came to Islamabad area.

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^^LOLZ someone told me that nearly every poor family in Karachi is now claiming to be Syed just to get money or respect and it is slowly becoming common that people come from Pakistan for example and when they get here they claim to be Syed so they might get more respect and get a JOB e.t.c so obviousally there is 'fake' syeds around but I heard there was some kind of sceintific way to prove if you are Syed it had to do with a DNA test but it was too contravercial for Pakistan.

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(salam)

^^LOLZ someone told me that nearly every poor family in Karachi is now claiming to be Syed just to get money or respect

Don't really want to start a Syed vs Non-Syed thing here, as the OP is asking a totally different question but, many Punjabi Syeds who believe in the fact that Syeds can't marry Non-Syeds actually don't give the rishta of their daughters to many Karachi or Indian Syeds because they are not able to produce a credible family tree and say they are fake. At times there are actually ulema invited to review the family trees, as these trees when made are stamped and have a seal on them, they are used like a certificate. It is a big deal for many people in that culture and society.

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Bro Ali Imran THANK YOU for the scans, they are EXACTLY what i was looking for :D

personally i find it fascinating, and these shajras, more than any hadith, prove that our imams really existed, really breathed, really walked the earth (not that i doubted it, but you know what i mean)...its as close as you can get to a snapshot of them lol. i dont think for a second you are a "fake sayed" - you just cant fake a shajra like that man. and youre right, thats not what im asking and im not interested in the "whose a real sayed and whose fake" argument.

just briefly tho, the brothers do have a point, but it wasnt to do with money it was the partition- and the migration of people when those who wanted to start a new life "became" sayeds where they settled as there was no one who could say they werent.

i hope we can get your shajra translated, especially the bit with the colourful name at the bottom. maybe he is the one im lookin for? hopefully if inshallah some more people post their shajras we can cross reference the key names and find the forefathers of the shia south asian nation!!!

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I don't have my family shajrah here but I do know that my ancestors were from Iran who migrated to India and we are descendants from Hazrat Zaid (as) the son of Imam Zain -ul - Abideen (as) BUT we are twelvers and our fifth Imam is Imam Mohammad Baqar (as) !

I can try to get the names from my Dad but the detailed shajrah was with my late Grandfather who recently passed away. I'll have to find out what happened to it..

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yes please do...im assuming that your shajra will look very similar to bro ali_imrans to begin with, maybe your two trees intermarried? there could be all kinds of similarities between you both.

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^ I don;t know.. His traces to Kashmir where he still has some relatives there. We were never in Kashmir.. I'm Zaidi syed from both my mom's side as well as my dad's though they are not related. My dad's side traces back to Delhi while my mom's side traces itself to Lucknow. I'll check if they trace to different places in Iran as well.

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no i mean originally, at the start haina? the first few pages must be the same for both of you as you both start from maula ali but while yours goes off at imam zainul abideen his carries on for a bit longer.

should be interesting :)

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My family tree just got rebuilt and an alim (Maulana Mohammad Ali Naqi) helped my relative make it. So yeah i think its authentic. But from my charachter I really doubted being Syed before the family tree was made.

My dad told me that his grand mother used to tell him of our ancestors. They were military (Muslim army I hope :angry:) commanders and in the 1800 something mutiny against the British they got owned big time :P and slowly after several years started resurfacing. We still got some properties in some place in India BUT by now I guess some kuffar have already taken it up :dry:

My Zaidi cousins were given a whole city by Aurangzeb or some wahabbi mughal because their ancestor taught him the Quran. They are the 21st descendants.

Insha Allah when I get my family tree, I shall give you the names but will leave out 4 generations or so.

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(salam)

i hope we can get your shajra translated, especially the bit with the colourful name at the bottom. maybe he is the one im lookin for? hopefully

That name that I pointed out is of Makhdoom Hassan Jahanian Jahangasht. Jahangasht is a title I believe meaning someone who travels a lot. And from the looks of it, he seems more known with the name Syed Jalaludeen Bukhari. He is also mentioned in texts in Pakistan and I guess you can read more here. His history and pedigree are given in extend in such works as the Mazher-i-Jalali, the Akber-ul-Akhyar, the Rauzat-ul-Ahbab, Maraij-ul-Walayat, Manaqabi Qutbi, the Siyar-ul-Aqtar, the Siyar-ul-Arifeen, the Manaqib-ul-Asifya etc. These books only exist in manuscript and are generally found in the position of Bukhari Sayyids.

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We are from one of the oldest Sadat populations in Northern India .. Jais (my native place) has been a Sadat town since around 410 Hijri.

We are Sabzvari Sayyids and our ancestor who migrated from Sabzvar in Iran to India were lead by Syed Najmuddin Sabzwari, a revered Alim. Momineens settled and inhabited this land in 1027 A.D. After some time adjacent Patakpur, 4 mile from Jais, was also inhabited by Momineens and rechristened as Naseerabad after the name of Syed Naseerudin Jaisi.

Jais is the native land of Khandan e Ijtihad and multitude of very high ranking scholars have come from there. The 1st Mujtahid from India, Ayatullah il Uzma Sayyid Dildar Ali Naqvi 'Gufraanmaab (ar)' was from here and later his family came to be called Khandan e Ijtihad due to the heavy presence of high ranking scholars. Some other notable names who come from Jais - Naseerabad are Syedul Ulama Naqqan sb, Aqa Hasan sb, Sibte Hasab sb, Kalbe Hussain sb and his progeny

We trace our lineage to Imam Ali ibn Mohammad Al Hadi (as) and have our Shajra preserved. I am out of India and hence cannot share it with you now.. but if you really need that so urgently you can probably contact Noor e Hidayat Foundation in Lucknow and they would be able to help you in detail. Infact the Incharge of Noor e Hidayat Foundation has done extensive work on Shajra's of Indian Shia community especially of Ulema and had it printed in much details in their yearly magazine ' Khandan e Ijtihad number' and its monthly issue ' Shua e Amal'

Edited by shabib_jaisi

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thanks for the info bro ali_imran...bro dingdong gave me the idea to buy some family tree software/ website thingummy and use it for all the sayeds with shajras to hand to upload what they can to build up a map of the lineage and how it relates to each other/ the major events at the time.

if enough people are cool with it ill inshallah buy the stuff next week and either gift it to shiachat or work out a way so everyone can contribute?

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We are Naqvi Bhakari Syeds. Very brief history which I know is that our ancestors migrated

From Arabia to Iran

From Iran to Bhakar (now called Sukkur) in Sindh.

(One of our famous ancestors Syed Sadruddin Bhakari's tomb is adjacent to the Sukkur Barrage.)

From Bhakar, Sind to Uch Sharif, Punjab

(Syed Badruddin Bhakari's tomb is in Uch Sharif)

From Uch Sharif, Punjab to Jalandhar, Punjab

(It is in Jalandhar, where our grand-grandfather Maulana Manzoor Hussain Naqvi started writing the famous Tuhfa tul Awam)

From Jalandhar, Punjab to various parts of Pakistan (Alipur, Lahore, Karachi, PakPatan, Muzaffergarh, etc)

Our complete Shajrah has also been published, I can produce further information by consulting that book ...

I agree with bro Ali Imran Naqvi, that our elders considered majority of Urdu speaking Syeds and Seraiki speaking Syeds as fake Syeds, who proclaimed themselves Syeds after Partition. However, our elders knew many Urdu speaking Syeds even before partition, e.g. we have a number of relationships with the family of Tanzeem Naqvi (ex Chief of KESC) and the family of Agha Zameer ul Hassan, who used to visit Maulana Manzoor Hussain Naqvi in Jalandhar, Indian Punjab.

Wassalam

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bro kalbehaidair ill tell you what, ill give you a week or so to get the info if you can and inshallah when i buy the family tree software everyone with a shajrah can upload them?

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