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nor21

Ibn Kathir Is Mistaken

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selam

i have read the book from ibn kathir called "the signs before the day of judgment" and this is what it says:

"The Mahdi

THE Mahdi will come at the end of time; he is one of the Rightly-Guided

Caliphs and Imams. He is not the Mahdi who is expected by the Shiah, who

they claim will appear from a tunnel in Samarra. This claim of theirs has

no basis in reality nor in any reliable source. "

source http://islamworld.net/docs/hour/Two.txt

the books source : http://islamworld.net/docs/hour/index.htm

Shia unfortunately for him do not claim that imam Mahdi a.s. will appear from the tunnel of Samara rather he a.s. will appear in mecca , so I doubt his level of knowledge regarding this issue.

for those who do not know ibn kathir , here is some infomation about him :

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ibn_Kathir

ibn kathirs teacher was the "great Shayk ul islam" ibn taymiay la.

May Allah guide People, Ameen

ws

Edited by inshaAllah

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Such baseless slander. Ofcourse he didnt hate ahlel bayt. Open your eyes people; dont be 'typical Shia' :

They (the believers) accept what has been reported continuously from the Prince of the Believers Ali Ibn Abi Talib

(Ibn Taymiyyah, Al-Aqeedah Al-Wasitiyyah, Chapter 4)

In regards to the Prophetic Household, Ibn Taymiyyah said:

The Ahlus Sunnah should love the Prophets family, give them support, and honor the Prophets will in regards to them, as he said at Ghadir Khumm: I ask you by Allah to take care of my family; I ask you by Allah to take care of my family.

(Ibn Taymiyyah, Al-Aqeedah Al-Wasitiyyah, Chapter 4)

Ibn Taymiyyah was so aggrieved by the death of Husayn at Kerbala, that he said the following:

May Allah curse his killers, and whoever was glad with his murder!

(Ibn Taymiyyah, Majmoo al-Fatawa, Vol.4, pp.403-404)

Edited by Shialife

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''According to this hadith, one day a woman brought a gift of a roasted bird to the Prophet. Before eating it, the Prophet, raising his hands, invoked Allah thus: "O Allah! Of your whole creation, send the person who is the dearest to you and to me, so that he may partake of this roasted bird with me."

Ali then came in and ate the roasted bird with the Holy Prophet.

''

And this proves HOW ? That Ibn Tamiyah is a nasibi ?

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''According to this hadith, one day a woman brought a gift of a roasted bird to the Prophet. Before eating it, the Prophet, raising his hands, invoked Allah thus: "O Allah! Of your whole creation, send the person who is the dearest to you and to me, so that he may partake of this roasted bird with me."

Ali then came in and ate the roasted bird with the Holy Prophet.

''

And this proves HOW ? That Ibn Tamiyah is a nasibi ?

Who the hell is talking about ibn Taymiyyah? I'm talking about ibn Kathir.

I don't even bother with ibn Taymiyyah, he was a friend of Shaytan and even many Sunni scholars have called him kafir, so just quit your whining.

- Mansab

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Guest fatima2003

I need to apologize to Jund al mahdi and tell him i was worng.... i actrually thought for a breif moment that this person shialife might have been sincere and i requested of him to stop and be nice so we could teach him....

PLEASE EVERYONE NOTE I WAS WRONG!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

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Seeign as the teacher of Ibn Kathir is Tamiyah...... now answer how the hadith makes him a nasibi.

Oh and sister, becasue i challenge some Shia i am suddenly a nasibi ?

I love Ahlel bayt (as).

Have you ever read the hadith?

the Hadith states that Rasoolullah (a.s.) was given a roasted bird as a gift, and he prayed to Allah to send the greatest of creation and the one whom is near to both him and Allah, and only Imam Ali (a.s.) came in to eat the bird, the others were not even able to get through the door (abu bak'r, umar, etc.).

This hadith is narrated by over 20 chains, and 30 companions, if my memory serves correct. al-Hakim in Mustadrak says "Sahih on the standards of Bukhari and Muslim."

But why don't you go look and see what Ibn Kathir says about this hadith in bidaya wal-nihaya.

- Mansab

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''According to this hadith, one day a woman brought a gift of a roasted bird to the Prophet. Before eating it, the Prophet, raising his hands, invoked Allah thus: "O Allah! Of your whole creation, send the person who is the dearest to you and to me, so that he may partake of this roasted bird with me."

Ali then came in and ate the roasted bird with the Holy Prophet.

slm brothers,

:lol: you just proved that abu bakr, umar and uthman are liars

marshAllah a sunni coming in this forum from studentroom naming him self shialife .

ws

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Please post....

Ibn Kathir knew he couldn't weaken the tradition by using Ilm al-Rijal, so he resorted to this... he said:

"MY HEART has something which WEAKENS this hadith."

If that's not hate for Mawla Ali (a.s.), I don't know what is. It's sheer jealousy that this incident didn't involve those whom the Ahlul'sunnah regard as the most superior.

- Mansab

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Maybe that was his feeling ?

Seeing as he called Ali (as) the prince of the believers, it is unlikely he is a nasibi.

Bro... that means nothing. He clearly showed his jealousy.

In his Tafseer, under the Tafseer of 5:55, he seeks to weaken the MUTAWATIR incident of Imam Ali (a.s.) giving the ring to the beggar whilst in ruku. He just doesn't give up. He is jealous of Imam Ali (a.s.), and this is just hypocrisy.

- Mansab

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(salam)

About the Mahdi re-appearing from a tunnel(i believe it should be cave), now this may not be the belief of the mainstream Ithna Asharis today, but it has surely been the belief of atleast certain Ithna Asharis in previous times. And one can not deny the fact that this is reported in certain of the Ithna Ashari books.

And when it comes to Ibn Katheer weakening a hadeeth, that doesn't make him a nasibi. No matter what one feel towards a scholar, there is no reason to be unjust in ones judgement.

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Salaam.

Ibn Kathir tries many times to degrade Imam Ali (a.s.), he is clearly jealous of him, and he is clearly a dishonest person. That's pretty much the truth of the matter, bro. He hated the excellent narrations regarding Ahlul'bayt (a.s.).

- Mansab

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Salaam.

Ibn Kathir tries many times to degrade Imam Ali (a.s.), he is clearly jealous of him, and he is clearly a dishonest person. That's pretty much the truth of the matter, bro. He hated the excellent narrations regarding Ahlul'bayt (a.s.).

- Mansab

(salam)

That's another thing which can be discussed on itself. But to make such a judgement out of the weakening of a hadeeth or two is unfair. Let's not be so judgemental. Yes many that claimed to be from Ahl-us-Sunnah were straight out Nawasib or had Nasibi leanings, but that's another thing in itself.

Edited by Nafs-uz-Zakiyyah

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(salam)

That's another thing which can be discussed on itself. But to make such a judgement out of the weakening of a hadeeth or two is unfair. Let's not be so judgemental. Yes many that claimed to be from Ahl-us-Sunnah were straight out Nawasib or had Nasibi leanings, but that's another thing in itself.

Agreed.

- Mansab

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Salams

Can we all avoid slandering each other and calling scholars of other sects of Islam, Liars.

As much as we would hate a sunni muslim coming over here and calling a shia scholar, liar, we should expect same reaction from sunni muslims.

Kindly avoid such provocative styles of discussions. The topic is interesting but we can continue discussing it without getting aggressive. For example, rather than having a thread title, Ibn Kathir the liar, we could have simply said, Ibn Kathir is mistaken or if we want to prove a point that Ibn Kathir intentionally and knowingly hated Ahl-ul-bayt, we can mention it in our post in a way which is not mocking or offensive to other muslims, rather our point of view should refer to the individual only. This is to ensure that we have healthy and meaningful debates.

Thankyou for your understanding. I will be editing anything I find offensive to sunnis as well as shias. If any member continues to proceed with this behaviour, he/she will receive an official warning followed by suspension.

Kind Regards,

InshaAllah

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(salam)

No reason to throw accusations like "he hated Ahlul Bayt!", because he probably meant that the Mehdi is not ibn al-Askari but rather ibn Abdullah (Sunni Muslim view of the Mehdi). He may be a Sunni scholar and this does not make him a liar or kafir or whatever.

Edited by Qa'im

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Ibn Kathir was a great scholar, even though I don't believe in any religion I have to respect those who have put effort into it.

His books are well written and they're quite thorough.

To which book are you refering to exactly? I've read Stories of the Prophets and that book is a joke, then how will the rest be?

Ibn Kathir shares quite a few beliefs and opinions with ibn taymiyyah (LA) his master so it isn't surprising he says and quotes stupid and nasibi things.

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if we look at the abridged version of ibn kathir's tafsir. in his tafisr of 3:42 we see no mention of the hadith that fatimah is the best woman.

http://www.tafsir.com/default.asp?sid=3&tid=8214

The Two Sahihs recorded this Hadith. Ibn Jarir recorded that Abu Musa Al-Ash`ari said that the Messenger of Allah said,

«ßóãõáó ãöäó ÇáÑøöÌóÇáö ßóËöíÑñ¡ æóáóãú íóßúãõáú ãöäó ÇáäøöÓóÇÁö ÅöáøóÇ ãóÑúíóãõ ÈöäúÊõ ÚöãúÑóÇäó æó ÂÓöíóÉõ ÇãúÑóÃóÉõ ÝöÑúÚóæúä»

(Many men achieved perfection, but among women, only Maryam the daughter of `Imran and Asiah, the wife of Fir`awn, achieved perfection.)

The Six -- with the exception of Abu Dawud - recorded it. Al-Bukhari's wording for it reads,

«ßóãõáó ãöäó ÇáÑøöÌóÇáö ßóËöíÑñ¡ æóáóãú íóßúãõáú ãöäó ÇáäøöÓóÇÁö ÅöáøóÇ ÂÓöíóÉõ ÇãúÑóÃóÉõ ÝöÑúÚóæúäó¡ æóãóÑúíóãõ ÈöäúÊõ ÚöãúÑóÇäó¡ æóÅöäøó ÝóÖúáó ÚóÇÆöÔóÉó Úóáóì ÇáäøöÓóÇÁö ßóÝóÖúáö ÇáËøóÑöíÏö Úóáì ÓóÇÆöÑö ÇáØøóÚóÇã»

(Many men reached the level of perfection, but no woman reached such a level except Asiah, the wife of Fir`awn, and Maryam, the daughter of `Imran. The superiority of `A'ishah (his wife) to other women, is like the superiority of Tharid (meat and bread dish) to other meals.)

We mentioned the various chains of narration and wordings for this Hadith in the story of `Isa, son of Maryam, in our book, Al-Bidayah wan-Nihayah, all the thanks are due to Allah.

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Kitab Al Bidayah wal Nihaya is a good one.

His heart couldn't accept Ahul Al Bayt. so what? you don't choose what you believe.

You're missing the point - maybe that's why you are who you are these days... no offense.

Anyway, it would've been more appropriate to have refuted the authenticity of the ahadith narrating the merits of Ali ibn Abi Talib (a.s.) using Ahlul'sunnah Ilm al-Rijal. He knew that couldn't be done. Therefore, he had to resort to just blatantly saying that he won't accept it - even if the authenticity was at an unsurpassed caliber. It shows cowardice and lack of intellect. But if you're impressed with people like that, then so be it.

- Mansab

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