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I am a sunni brother...and i was wondering if my shia brothers would help me and tell me where Sheikh Bilal Phillips is correct and where he is incorrect in his speech thanks..............http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0q4NeFH35H8&feature=related

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Seems this "Sheik" bilal is a rather rebellious type within sunnism which hasnt taken the time to study his own faith, that or he has his own interpretation

He says that the Prophet is not infallible but that he also makes mistakes, it is both a sunnite and shiite belief that the Prophet made no mistakes and was in fact infallible because he had to reveal a perfect book without errors to mankind. Infallibility of the Prophet is in the Quran and if he had taken the time to actually read Reda Mozaffar's book (which i honestly dont believe he has) he would've seen that mr Mozaffar also refers to a specific, direct and clear Quranic Ayeh (revelation) about Prophet's infallibility which any rational thinker would accept.

Also Shiites don't believe that Imams can look into every aspect of the future or past, but they have received some knowledge on certain issues. For instance, Imam Hussein knew his martyrdom would come at Karbala and he warned his followers for it, even allowing them to leave the camps while they could. Or Imam Reza's warnings before he was poisoned by Ma'mun. These are all typical.

Also, Bukhari is "equelevant" to kafi in any way. Kafi is not certified as anything reliable. As for Khomeini's book i havent read it.

Edited by Rubaiyat

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Seems this "Sheik" bilal is a rather rebellious type within sunnism which hasnt taken the time to study his own faith, that or he has his own interpretation

He says that the Prophet is not infallible but that he also makes mistakes, it is both a sunnite and shiite belief that the Prophet made no mistakes and was in fact infallible because he had to reveal a perfect book without errors to mankind. Infallibility of the Prophet is in the Quran and if he had taken the time to actually read Reda Mozaffar's book (which i honestly dont believe he has) he would've seen that mr Mozaffar also refers to a specific, direct and clear Quranic Ayeh (revelation) about Prophet's infallibility which any rational thinker would accept.

Also Shiites don't believe that Imams can look into every aspect of the future or past, but they have received some knowledge on certain issues. For instance, Imam Hussein knew his martyrdom would come at Karbala and he warned his followers for it, even allowing them to leave the camps while they could. Or Imam Reza's warnings before he was poisoned by Ma'mun. These are all typical.

Also, Bukhari is "equelevant" to kafi in any way. Kafi is not certified as anything reliable. As for Khomeini's book i havent read it.

Salam Alykom,

Dude, who told you we say such things. Have you read Zira Aljamea. Do you have narrations that say what you have claimed.

I have a lot of narrations and evidences that they know what happend an what is going to happen and what is happening to the day of judgment. ãÇ ßÇä æ íßæä æ ãÇåæ ßÇÆä

I have narratinos that they tell there companions that they will die an that year at that time and we they are in that place.

Besdies ziyara Aljamea ÇáÒíÇÑÉ ÇáÌÇãÚÉ Proofs that they are the storage of knowledge ÎÒÇä ÇáÚáã And this knowledge of everything not something specific. Besides that Quran says that every thing is counnted with Imams (Knowledge, sins, hasanat, etc) in sorat yasin verse 8 or 7 I cannot remeber, æ ßá ÔíÁ ÃÍÕíÇäå Ýí ÅãÇã ãÈíä.

There knowledge is comprehensive.

And Please don't ascribe things that are not true to our faith. Maybe Ahlulbait do not have total knowledge in your faith. But the do have total knowledge in the faith of shia. Unforetunately some members in this forum, speak from their own knowledge and speak what suits there brain. This obviuos in topics suchas ( Is Music Hala or Haram ), (Tatbeer).

When ask people about people about sport, those who do not know about sport, will say that we know nothing about sport.

If asked people about physics, those who do not know anything about physics will say we know nothing about physics.

When you as people about countries, those who do not know anything about countries will say we know nothing about countries.

except Religion. Every one calim that he knows about religion and every one pretend as if he is the Shaikh.

I am not saying do not speak about religion our about your faith. I am not saying do not talk with sunnas about your faith. What I say speak with knoweledge. Otherwise do not talk.

Salam Alykom

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I am a sunni brother...and i was wondering if my shia brothers would help me and tell me where Sheikh Bilal Phillips is correct and where he is incorrect in his speech thanks..............http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0q4NeFH35H8&feature=related

Salaam.

If you are a Sunni brother, you should take care to stay away from Bilal Philips and his crowd. They are fitnah mongerers and are nothing but ignorant fanatics.

They do not represent Ahlul'sunnah in the least bit (they are Nawasib Salafis, i.e. enemies of Ahlul'bayt (a.s.)), so I suggest you don't fall into the Salafi trap!

Wa'salaam.

- Mansab

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You can just look at them and know that they're misguided.

Anyone else getting real good at smelling a Nasibi before even meeting them? I swear man, I'm reaching Jedi-status with that.

Edited by mansab.jafri

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Guest fatima2003

ok... I will post now on where I am at so far in this video.....

We do believe the Imams (as) to be infallible however, we can also prove the infalibility of the Ahl al-Bayt through sunni sources.... there is no problem in doing so........are you with me?

We do not make the Imams (as) as partner to Allah (swt)... they are not equal to Allah.... but yes they are in fact infallible.... sunni also believe Mariam to be pure and without sin as well.... so how can you say we are wrong to believe that a person can be without sin?

Allah can give His (swt gifts to whomever He swt chooses... and we believe that gifts were given to the Imams (as) if you ay Allah does not have the power to give His gifts to whomever He swt chooses you are saying that Allah is not All Powerful... therefore you are in effect commiting a sin and going outside the bounds of islam.......

sunni infact belive also in the infallibility of the Prophet (pbuh) and it is considered kuffar to say he may have commited sin therefore you again are worng in your judgements.......

ill be back after I watch the rest of the program..........

nope that about coveres it,..........

legitamate questions?

Edited by fatima2003

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...Two Jedis, Mansab and Yiligiz, approach the Nasibi Sith Lord Yusuf Estes...

NOTE: JEDI = Shi'a and SITH = Salafi in this storyline.

Jedi Mansab: "Be careful, Master Yiligz... I sense that the dark side of the force is strong with this one..."

Jedi Yiligiz: "Alas, a Jedi gains power through understanding and a Sith gains understanding through power."

Jedi Mansab: "He is a follower of the teachings of the foolish Ibn Taymiyyah..."

Jedi Yiligiz:: "Who's the more foolish: the fool, or the fool who follows him?"

Sith Lord Yusuf Estes: "MWAHAHA, YOU ARE WAY OVER YOUR HEADS IN COMING TO SAUDI ARABIA, YOUNG JEDIS! Either you become Salafis, OR YOU WILL FACE MY WRATH AND DIE A HORRIBLE DEATH, A DEATH OF SUICIDE BOMBING AND PIN-POINT ACCURATE DAWAH PROGRAMS!"

Jedi Yiligiz: "Only a Sith Lord deals in absolutes..."

And now for a commercial break!

- Mansab

Edited by mansab.jafri

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Your slander of Ibn Tamiyah is flawed.

Please anser me this ; why would Ibn Tamiyah say the folllowing if he is a 'nasibi' ?

Ibn Taymiyyah was so aggrieved by the death of Husayn at Kerbala, that he said the following:

“May Allah curse his killers, and whoever was glad with his murder!”

(Ibn Taymiyyah, Majmoo al-Fatawa, Vol.4, pp.403-404)

“They (the believers) accept what has been reported continuously from the Prince of the Believers Ali Ibn Abi Talib…”

(Ibn Taymiyyah, Al-Aqeedah Al-Wasitiyyah, Chapter 4)

(Ibn Taymiyyah, Al-Aqeedah Al-Wasitiyyah, Chapter 4)

In regards to the Prophetic Household, Ibn Taymiyyah said:

“The Ahlus Sunnah should love the Prophet’s family, give them support, and honor the Prophet’s will in regards to them, as he said at Ghadir Khumm: ‘I ask you by Allah to take care of my family; I ask you by Allah to take care of my family.’”

(Ibn Taymiyyah, Al-Aqeedah Al-Wasitiyyah, Chapter 4)

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Guest fatima2003

you obviouosly do nto care to discuss the poiints of the film you asked us to watch and discuss with you .... you just wish to argue nonsesnse that is nto even a part of the topic so i will leave it to those who are bored and woudl liek to play games with yiou..... since you wish to play games rather than seek knowledge........

though please not i took the time to watch your stupid film and i replied to the film...... it is utter nonsense that you do not care to discuss it,.....

Edited by fatima2003

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Shialife: Why don't you change your name to "ibntaymiyyahlife"?

Even ibn Hajar al-Asqalani and ibn Hajar al-Haythami and many others declared that he was completely out of line and many have declared KUFAR ON HIM. These are your own scholars, clever guy.

Many people declared him to be Kafir because he believed that Allah had hands and a physical body.

- Mansab

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you obviouosly do nto care to discuss the poiints of the film you asked us to watch and discuss with you .... you just wish to argue nonsesnse that is nto even a part of the topic so i will leave it to those who are bored and woudl liek to play games with yiou..... since you wish to play games rather than seek knowledge........

though please not i took the time to watch your stupid film and i replied to the film...... it is utter nonsense that you do not care to discuss it,.....

Shialife: Why don't you change your name to "ibntaymiyyahlife"?

Even ibn Hajar al-Asqalani and ibn Hajar al-Haythami and many others declared that he was completely out of line and many have declared KUFAR ON HIM. These are your own scholars, clever guy.

Many people declared him to be Kafir because he believed that Allah had hands and a physical body.

- Mansab

Im not discussing what the Sunni scholars said or am i playing games.

It isnt realted to the subject but yo one of your posts that Ibn Tamiyah is 'foolish'.

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Stop acting like a child or I will pummel you with your own sources regarding the infidelity of Ibn Taymiyyah.

Stop reading things on the internet and regarding them as fact. Go read classical books.

- Mansab

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Guest fatima2003

did youi see my post say anything about Ibn Taymiyyah?????? NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO

JUND AL MAHDI I WAS WRONG AND YOU WERE RIGHT!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! im oging ot put this in my signature for a month...... thank you for proving me worng shialife!!!!!

Edited by fatima2003

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Brother i have said this before and i will say this again.

I only wanted to counter your saying that Ibn Tamiyah is 'foolish'. In another thread it is said he is 'nasibi' ; when clearly i provided proofs he loved ahlel bayt.

Also say he is a kaffer right ?

Cant a kaffer love Ahlel Bayt ?!

Simple counter i posted : you took this too far.

did youi see my post say anything about Ibn Taymiyyah?????? NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO

JUND AL MAHDI I WAS WRONG AND YOU WERE RIGHT!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! im oging ot put this in my signature for a month...... thank you for proving me worng shialife!!!!!

I was talking to mansab... lol.

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Bro, if someone believes Allah has a physical body, he is guilty of Shirk. That's the bottom line. Let's forget Ahlul'bayt (a.s.), because his hatred for Ahlul'bayt (a.s.) is WELL-documented and understood not only by the Shi'i but by the Sunnis as well.

- Mansab

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...Two Jedis, Mansab and Yiligiz, approach the Nasibi Sith Lord Yusuf Estes...

NOTE: JEDI = Shi'a and SITH = Salafi in this storyline.

Jedi Mansab: "Be careful, Master Yiligz... I sense that the dark side of the force is strong with this one..."

Jedi Yiligiz: "Alas, a Jedi gains power through understanding and a Sith gains understanding through power."

Jedi Mansab: "He is a follower of the teachings of the foolish Ibn Taymiyyah..."

Jedi Yiligiz:: "Who's the more foolish: the fool, or the fool who follows him?"

Sith Lord Yusuf Estes: "MWAHAHA, YOU ARE WAY OVER YOUR HEADS IN COMING TO SAUDI ARABIA, YOUNG JEDIS! Either you become Salafis, OR YOU WILL FACE MY WRATH AND DIE A HORRIBLE DEATH, A DEATH OF SUICIDE BOMBING AND PIN-POINT ACCURATE DAWAH PROGRAMS!"

Jedi Yiligiz: "Only a Sith Lord deals in absolutes..."

And now for a commercial break!

- Mansab

lool..

thats too much respect man... "Master yiligizizziziziz" haha.

------------

ibn taimiyah

Minhaj al-Sunnah, Volume 8 page 230:

æÚáí íÞÇÊá áíØÇÚ æíÊÕÑÝ Ýí ÇáäÝæÓ æÇáÃãæÇá ÝßíÝ íÌÚá åÐÇ ÞÊÇáÇ Úáì ÇáÏíä

“Ali fought to secure obedience and rule the people and money, so how can that be deemed as fighting for sake of religion?”

We read in Minhaj al-Sunnah, Volume 8 page 205:

æÃãÇ ÅÓáÇã Úáí Ýåá íßæä ãÎÑÌÇ áå ãä ÇáßÝÑ Úáì Þæáíä

There are two opinions as to whether Ali's conversion to Islam released him from kufr or not"

Minhaj al-Sunnah, Volume 4 page 137:

æÚáí ÑÖí Çááå Úäå ßÇä ÞÕÏå Ãä íÊÒæÌ ÚáíåÇ Ýáå Ýí ÃÐÇåÇ ÛÑÖ

“Ali intended to marry so as to hurt her (Fatima) on purpose.”

Minhaj al-Sunnah, Volume 7 page 172:

æÞÏ ÃäÒá Çááå ÊÚÇáì Ýí Úáì íÇ ÃíåÇ ÇáÐíä ÂãäæÇ áÇ ÊÞÑÈæÇ ÇáÕáÇÉ æÃäÊã ÓßÇÑì ÍÊì ÊÚáãæÇ ãÇ ÊÞæáæä áãÇ Õáì ÝÞÑÇ æÎáØæÇ

“Allah had revealed for Ali {O ye who believe! Draw not near unto prayer when ye are drunken, till ye know that which ye utter,} when he prayed and recited and then got mixed up.”

Minhaj al-Sunnah, Volume 7 page 172:

ÞÇá ÇáäÈí Õáì Çááå Úáíå æÓáã æßÇä ÇáÅäÓÇä ÇßËÑ ÔíÁ ÌÏáÇ áãÇ ÞÇá áå æáÝÇØãÉ ÅáÇ ÊÕáíÇä ÝÞÇáÇ ÃäãÇ ÃäÝÓäÇ ÈíÏ Çááå ÓÈÍÇäå æÊÚÇáì.

The prophet said to them '{but man is more than anything contentious}'. When he said to him (Ali) and Fatima, 'Wont you pray?' They replied: 'Our souls are in the hands of Allah (swt)'

Minhaj al-Sunnah, Volume 3 page 53:

ÝÅäå áãÇ ÃãÑåã ÈÞíÇã Çááíá ÝÇÚÊá Úáí ÑÖí Çááå Úäå ÈÇáÞÏÑ æÃäå áæ ÔÇÁ Çááå áÃíÞÙäÇ Úáã ÇáäÈí Õáì Çááå Úáíå æÓáã Ãä åÐÇ áíÓ Ýíå ÅáÇ ãÌÑÏ ÇáÌÏá ÇáÐí áíÓ ÈÍÞ ÝÞÇá æßÇä ÇáÅäÓÇä ÃßËÑ ÔíÁ ÌÏáÇ.

"When he (the Prophet) ordered them to offer the night prayer, Ali [ra] came up with the prepared excuse that ‘if Allah wants he will wake us up’, the prophet realized that this was merely an argument that was not right, therefore he recited {but man is more than anything contentious}".

Minhaj al-Sunnah, Volume 8 page 161:

æÚáí ÞÏ ÇÎÊáÝ Ýíå åá ÍÝÙ ÇáÞÑÂä ßáå Ãã áÇ

“Ali, there is disagreement about him as to whether he had memorized the whole Quran or not.”

Minhaj al-Sunnah, Volume 6 page 67:

æáã íÍÕá ÈÞÊáåã ãÕáÍÉ ááãÓáãíä áÇ Ýí Ïíäåã æáÇ Ýí ÏäíÇåã Èá äÞÕ ÇáÎíÑ ÚãÇ ßÇä æÒÇÏ ÇáÔÑ

“Their fighting served no benefit for the Muslims in their religion nor in their life, on the contrary the good had been decreased and the evil had been increased.”

Minhaj al-Sunnah, Volume 4 page 20:

Þæáå Ýí Úáì Åäå ßÇä íÕáí ÇáÝ ÑßÚÉ ÝÅä åÐÇ áÇ ÝÖíáÉ Ýíå

“His (Allamah Heli’s) statement that Ali would pray one thousand raka, surely there is no virtue in it”

It is interesting that Ibn al Hashimi had argued that Ibn Taimiyah loved the Ahl’ul bayt (as). But the reality was comments like the above that we cited that were so outrageous that we read in Lisan al-Mizan, by ibn Hajar, Volume 6, page 320:

æßã ãä ãÈÇáÛÉ áÊæåíä ßáÇã ÇáÑÇÝÖí ÃÏÊå ÃÍíÇäÇ Åáì ÊäÞíÕ Úáí ÑÖí Çááå Úäå

"The exaggeration in refuting the Rafidhi text has sometimes taken him to towards belittling Ali [ra]"

Sunni scholar from Morocco Hafiz Ahmad bin Sidiq (d. 1354 H) records in 'Fath al-Malik al-Ali' page 109:

"The extremist Nawasib such as ibn Taimiyah and whoever is similar to him."

Allamah Hasan bin Ali al-Saqqaf (born in 1961) is a contemporary Sunni scholar of modern day. He is the chief of Imam Nawawi center in Jordan. He has been the student of some esteemed Sunni scholars such as al-Azeemi (the margin writer of the book Sahih Ibn Khuzaima), Hafiz Ghemari and Sheikh Bouti. Allamah Saqqaf in the margin of the book 'Sahih Sharh Aqida Tahawya' page 651 states:

"From those who followed the path of Bani Ummaya and practiced Nasb against Ali, Lady Fatima, Alulbayt and assaulting them is Ibn Taimiyah al-Harani and his Nasibi companions."

---

Ibn Taimiyah’s views of Sayyida Fatima Zahra (as)

Minhaj al-Sunnah, Volume 5 page 522:

ÝÅä ÃÈÇ ÈßÑ ÅãÇã áÇ íÊÕÑÝ áäÝÓå Èá ááãÓáãíä ¡ æÇáãÇá áã íÃÎÐå áäÝÓå Èá ááãÓáãíä ¡ æÝÇØãÉ ÊØáÈ áäÝÓåÇ

Verily Abu Bakr is an Imam who did not act for himself but for the Muslims and as for the money, he did not take it for himself but for the Muslims whilst Fatima was demanding it for herself.

Minhaj al-Sunnah, Volume 4 page 132:

Ãæ áíÓ Çááå ÞÏ Ðã ÇáãäÇÝÞíä ÇáÐíä ÞÇá Ýíåã æãäåã ãä íáãÒß Ýí ÇáÕÏÞÇÊ ÝÅä ÃÚØæÇ ãäåÇ æÑÖÇ æÅä áã íÚØæÇ ãäåÇ ÅÐÇ åã íÓÎØæä æáæ äåã ÑÖæÇ ãÇ ÇÊÇåã Çááå æÑÓæáå æÞÇáæÇ ÍÓÈäÇ Çááå ÓíæÊíäÇ Çááå ãä ÝÖáå æÑÓæáå ÅäÇ Åáì Çááå ÑÇÛÈæä ÝÐßÑ Çááå ÞæãÇ ÑÖæÇ Åä ÇÚØæÇ æÛÖÈæÇ Åä áã íÚØæÇ ÝÐãåã ÈÐáß

Hasn’t Allah (swt) condemned the hypocrites those who said about them {And of them is he who defameth thee in the matter of the alms. If they are given thereof they are content, and if they are not given thereof, behold! they are enraged. If only they had been content with what Allah and His Messenger gave them, and had said, "Sufficient unto us is Allah! Allah and His Messenger will soon give us of His bounty to Allah do we turn our hopes} Allah mentioned people that if they are given they will be pleased, but if they are not given they get angry, and Allah condemned them.

Such blasphemy lead to Sunni scholar Mahmoud Subaih in his book Akhta ibn Taimiyah, page 63 commenting:

ÎØà ÌÓíã áÇÈä ÊíãíÉ áÇ íÛÊÝÑ ÅáÇ ÅÐÇ ÊÇÈ ãäå ÞÈá ÑÍíáå æåæ ÊÔÈíåå ÛÖÈ ÇáÓíÏÉ ÝÇØãÉ ÇáÒåÑÇÁ ÑÖí Çááå ÚäåÇ ãä ÇáÕÏíÞ ÑÖí Çááå Úäå ÈÛÖÈ ÇáãäÇÝÞíä

A huge mistake by Ibn Taimiyah that is unforgivable, unless he repented prior to death, was his likening the anger of Lady Fatima az-Zahra (may Allah be pleased with) towards as-Siddiq (may Allah be pleased with) with the anger of hypocrites.

Ibn Taimiyah’s views of Imams Hasan (as) and Hussain (as)

Minhaj al-Sunnah, Volume 4 page 19:

æÃãÇ ßæäåãÇ ÃÒåÏ ÇáäÇÓ æÃÚáãåã Ýí ÒãÇäåã ÝåÐÇ Þæá ÈáÇ Ïáíá

“To be deemed as the most ascetic and knowledgeable people of their time, this is a proofless claim.”

ah well just read the rest here :

http://www.answering-ansar.org/answers/ibn...ah/en/chap6.php

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Guest fatima2003

i think this is the point shialife..... that i took the time to watch your film and respond in a thread you had quesiotns concerning and you do not care to discuss it.... you only wish to play games.... so go play games.....

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Guest fatima2003
ok... I will post now on where I am at so far in this video.....

We do believe the Imams to be infallible however, we can also prove the infalibility of the Ahl al-Bayt through sunni sources.... there is no problem in doing so........are you with me?

We do not make the Imams as partner to Allah (swt)... they are not equal to Allah.... but yes they are in fact infallible.... sunni also believe Mariam to be pure and without sin as well.... so how can you say we are wrong to believe that a person can be without sin?

Allah can give His (swt gifts to whomever He swt chooses... and we believe that gifts were given to the Imams if you ay Allah does not have the power to give His gifts to whomever He swt chooses you are saying that Allah is not All Powerful... therefore you are in effect commiting a sin and going outside the bounds of islam.......

sunni infact belive also in the infallibility of the Prophet and it is considered kuffar to say he may have commited sin therefore you again are worng in your judgements.......

ill be back after I watch the rest of the program..........

nope that about coveres it,..........

legitamate questions?

this is my response to htis topic shia life if you are interested to discuss it ever..........

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Guest fatima2003

Sinlessness of our beloved Prophet (pbuh)

the sunni view is that all the anbiya (as) are sinless, there is no sunni who holds a different view.

mistakes is a different story, some sunnis believe that the anbiya (as) doesn't make mistakes while others believe that they can make mistakes, the latter view is the majority view, as is portrayed in 80:1, that is a mistake and not a sin, however this is just a matter of aqeedah, so if a person goes around saying this prophet made this mistake and that mistake etc thereby trying to disparage a nabi then it will be taken as if he's insulting the nabi (as) and the shari hadd will be carried out on him.

(the above is a quote from a sunni aalim and i had 3 other sunni aalim confim this statement to be true....)

now here is where the sunni differ from shi3a in this matter, shi3a believe that no nabi (as) can even to make a mistake but even this veiw is also held by many sunni also as 80.1 was a nabi (as) working it out and not making a mistake in aqeedah......

33:33 can be used as proof for both the sinlessness od our beloved prophet (pbuh) as well as the ahl ulbayt (as)

18:110 this ayah is to prove that Rasulullah (pbuh) was a human being that slept/ate/drank/walked etc like everyone else, that ayah can be used as proof against people who say that Rasulullah (pbuh) was not a human, but it cannot be used to prove anything about sins.

47:19 is teaching Rasulullah (pbuh) about istighfar, the ayah doesn't mean that Rasulullah (pbuh) sinned and now has to ask forgiveness.

if you really wanted an ayah to prove that Rasulullah (pbuh) was a sinner (auothobillah) like we are, then you should use, �48:2 �� �������� ��� ���� �����������

but even that can be refuted, because that very ayah says that Rasulullah (pbuh) is forgiven of all sins, and how can 'forgiven of all sins' means anything but 'sinless'?

I pray Allah (swt) that this clears things up about the staus of our beloved prophet ......... remember the quran has no contradicitons in it... when ever something is not clear to us it is simply in our misunderstanding of the ayat and not a contradiciton......whenever we think there is one we simply need to ask questions and study further........ I will leave you now with the ayah that proves the sinlessness of our beloved Prophet (pbuh)

�53:2 �������

Your companion does not err, nor does he go astray

definition of "mistake"

. An error or fault resulting from defective judgment, deficient knowledge, or carelessness.

therefore a mistake is something that totally and completely 100% goes against the quran insofar as the character of the anbiyah (as) is concerned......... let me to explain.......

the Prophets came to convey to people the Message of God. If we liken this Message or the Divine Revelation to light or pure water, as the Qur�an itself does (al-Ra�d, 13. 17; al-Nur, 24.35), it is absolutely necessary and indispensable to the nature of the Revelation that both the Archangel Gabriel who brought the Revelation, and the Prophet himself who conveyed it to people, should be absolutely pure. Otherwise, that Divine light, the Revelation, would have been extinguished or dimmed, or that �pure water� polluted. Every falling off is an impurity, a dark spot, in the heart. Like Gabriel, the heart or soul of the Prophet is like a �polished mirror� through which the Divine Revelation is reflected to people, or a �cup� from which people quench their thirst for that pure �Divine water�. Any black spot on the mirror would absorb a ray of that light; a single drop of mud would be enough to make the water unclear. This would mean that the Prophets did not � God forbid such a thought! � convey the whole of God�s Message. Whereas, in truth, they performed their duty perfectly and left nothing of the Message not conveyed. This is clear from the following verses of the Qur�an:

O Messenger! Convey what has been sent to you from your Lord. If you did not, you would not have fulfilled His mission. And God will defend you from people. Certainly, God guides not the unbelieving people. (al-Ma�ida, 5.67)

Today I have perfected your religion for you, and I have completed My favour upon you, and I have chosen and approved for you Islam as religion. (al-Ma�ida, 5.3)

Secondly, people learn from the Prophets all the commandments and principles concerning belief and conduct. In order that people should learn these commandments in their pristine purity and truth and as perfectly as possible to secure their happiness and prosperity in both worlds, the Prophets must, first, represent, and, then, present them without any faults or defects, for they are guides and good examples for people to follow, as explicitly stated in the Qur�an:

You have indeed in the Messenger of God a beautiful pattern, an excellent example, for anyone who aspires after God and the Last Day, and who engages much in the remembrance of God. (al-Ahzab, 33.21)

There is for you an excellent example in Abraham and those with him � there was indeed in them an excellent example for you � for those who aspire after God and the Last Day. (al-Mumtahana, 60. 4,6)

the Qur�an commands believers to obey all the orders or prohibitions of the Prophet without exception, and emphasizes that: it is not fitting for a believer, man or woman, when a matter has been decided by God and His Messenger, to have any option about their decision (al-Ahzab, 33.36). It also warns believers that what falls to them when God and His Messenger have given a judgment is only to say, �We have heard and obeyed� (al-Nur, 24.51). Absolute obedience to a Prophet means that the Prophet is right in all his commands and prohibitions.

Prophethood is so great a favor that all the Prophets bore unbearable pains in fulfilling the duty of thanksgiving and were always worried about not having worshipped God sufficiently. The Prophet Muhammad, upon him be peace and blessings, often implored God using the following words:

Glory be to You, we have not been able to know You as Your knowledge requires, O Known One.

Glory be to You, we have not been able to worship You as Your worship requires, O Worshipped One.

so to say that the prophets make mistakes is severely false and a lie against our anbiya (as)

there are no contradicitons in the quran so when there appears to be a contradiction in the quran the fault then lies with us and our interpretaiton thereof.......

please ask yourself this:

1)If the Prophet Sallallahu 'Alayhi Wasallam was able to make mistakes then he was fallible authobillah.

2)If the Prophet Sallallahu 'Alayhi Wasallam was fallible then what is Islam?

3)if any prophet (as) was fallible what does say about Allah (swt) ? cannot Allah is great enough to make sure that his message was given to the people without error? authobillah!!!!! Allah swt is soooo greater than this...... it is a sin to say otherwise about our anbiyah (as)

Edited by fatima2003

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well thanks guys for your help......another question, well i heard that shias believe sunnis as muslims but not momineen but what about a sunni who believes in the 12 imams and that they should've been leaders of the islamic caliphate.....but at the same time believe the rashidun khalifas were good muslims....please don't answer with any negative respones towards me thanks guys

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Guest fatima2003

a man does not have 2 hearts within one breast........

you are either one or the other... you can never be both.... if you have true love for the Ahl al-Bayt (as) and the Imams (as) then you cannot love those who murdered them.........

if you love those who killed Them (as) nd deprived them of their right then you do not truely LOVE Them (as)

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but see the thing is i don't believe that they did murder them or usurped Hazrit Ali a.s, according to hadith which i believe....but i do believe that after the rashidun the imamate should have taken hold since they were the greatest leaders during that time and would've led the caliphate properly

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Guest fatima2003

we have to fix you.......

what you are lacking in is simple knowledge however..... this is easy......

so...... lets go from this point...... do you believe in the sunni ahadeeth? or the shi3a? I can prove it both ways.......

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Guest fatima2003

assalaamu al3ikom

what is your understanding of the events of Ghadeer khum?

please allow me these questions as I need to know where you are in your learning and understanding in order to proceed to teach you without reiterating facts you may already know.....

I also apologize for the time it took me to respond.....I had work etc.

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that a group of soldiers were severely criticizing Hazrit Ali and Prophet Muhammad S.A.W defended Hazrit Ali against the slander that was being said against Hazrit Ali

Salaam.

The problem with this story is that it doesn't make any sense. Rasoolullah (a.s.) didn't mention this at all in the sermon, nor is this story authentic. If you have the authentic narrations, bring them and we can discuss it. But read the sermon, and you will see clearly that there is no mention or even hinting at such an incident.

Also, do you know of the Holy Verses that were revealed on that day?

Before the appointment of Ali ibn Abi Talib (a.s.):

"O Messenger! deliver what bas been revealed to you from your Lord; and if you do it not, then you have not delivered His message, and Allah will protect you from the people; surely Allah will not guide the unbelieving people." (5:67)

After the appointment:

"This day have those who disbelieve despaired of your religion, so fear them not, and fear Me. This day have I perfected for you your religion and completed My favor on you and chosen for you Islam as a religion;" (5:3)

I'd like for you to read through this:

http://almizan.org/Tafseer/Volume11/11Maida2.asp

and then this:

http://al-islam.org/ghadir/

It is very clear through the context of the sermon and the Ayahs which were revealed that this was the clear appointment of Mawla Ali (a.s.) as the successor of the Prophet (a.s.). Here is a narration which puts the word "mawla" into context ,and shows that it cannot mean friend:

ÎÑÌäÇ ãÚ ÑÓæá Çááå Õáì Çááå Úáíå æÓáã ÍÊì äÒáäÇ ÛÏíÑ Îã ÈÚË ãäÇÏíÇ íäÇÏí ÝáãÇ ÇÌÊãÚäÇ ÞÇá : ÃáÓÊ Ãæáì Èßã ãä ÃäÝÓßã ¿ þÞáäÇ : Èáì íÇÑÓæá Çááå ¡ ÞÇá : ÃáÓÊ Ãæáì Èßã ãä ÇãåÇÊßã ¿ ÞáäÇ : Èáì íÇ ÑÓæá Çááå ¡ ÞÇá : ÃáÓÊ Ãæáì Èßã ãä ÂÈÇÆßã ¿ ÞáäÇ : þÈáì íÇ ÑÓæá Çááå ¡ ÞÇá : ÃáÓÊ ¿ ÃáÓÊ ¿ ÃáÓÊ ¿ ÞáäÇ: Èáì íÇÑÓæá Çááå ¡ ÞÇá : ãä ßäÊ ãæáÇå ÝÚáí ãæáÇå ( 1 ) Ãááåã æÇá ãä þæÇáÇå ¡ æÚÇÏ ãä ÚÇÏÇå ¡ ÝÞÇá ÚãÑ Èä ÇáÎØÇÈ : åäíÆÇ áß íÇÈä ÇÈí ØÇáÈ ÃÕÈÍÊ Çáíæã æáí ßá ãÄãäý ý

Traveling with the Messenger of Allah , we stopped at the pond of Khumm and the Prophet sent someone to call upon people to gather. When we came together he said: ‘Do I not have more right with you than your own selves?’ We said: ‘Yes indeed, O Messenger of Allah!’ He continued: ‘Do I not have more right with you than your mothers?’ We said: ‘Yes indeed, O Messenger of Allah!’ He continued: ‘Do I not have more right with you than your fathers?’ We replied: ‘Yes indeed, O Messenger of Allah!’ He kept asking ‘Do I not have’, and we kept answering ‘Yes indeed, O Messenger of Allah!’ He concluded: ‘To whoever I am his master, ‘Ali is his master. O' God, love those who love him, and be hostile to those who are hostile to him.’ 'Umar b. al-Khattab said: ‘Congratulations O Ibn Abi Talib, today you have become the master of every believer.’ - Bidayah wal-Nihaya by Ibn Kathir

There are many more like this, where Rasoolullah (a.s.) puts the word into context by showing that it is directly related to his authority (awla). Just go through the al-islam link, and you will find a lot of them.

Wa'salaam!

- Mansab

Edited by mansab.jafri

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