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What you're quoting is referring to complaining of oppressers (which wouldn't even be an issue with the comments against non-mods/admins since they are not in the position to oppress). The point I quoted is a seperate point and is not invalidated by the point you posted. If you look at the context of the ''gheebah'' posts, it is very clear which of the two points that we have posted applies. The main objective of the posts were to demonstrate to the op (who began the thread with a plea for help) to not bother with MV and give him the advice he asked for, not to complain of oppressors for the heck of it. And as I stated earlier, this is further justified by the fact that they were talking of peoples views rather than character flaws.

I still can't see how comments stating that Jinnbuster and Mother are stealing oxygen is simply talking about their views. I guess we'll just have to agree to disagree on this one as I don't find any shari'ah basis for such comments to be permissible, either way from my perspective I only have a responsibility to point out the gheeba so that I am not held responsible for it on the Day of Judgement, its up to the members here to do something about it if they want or else face the consequences themselves. The reasons why people commit gheeba are well known by scholars: thirst for revenge, to obtain gratification from anger, peer pressure, to exalt one's self by degrading others, jelousy, and so on. Some of those reasons are pretty obvious in this thread. Instead we should remember death often, the day when we will be called to account for those things we say against other people.

Assalamualaykum.

Edited by abu ismail
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Assalam Alaykum,

For those of you who are current or former MV members you will know who I am. I was referred to this forum by someone who knows me and advised that the members here had taken quite a stance against the moderators and admins of MV. I'm not here as a moderator of MV as such but as an individual only. I have to say that after having read this thread I'm extremely disappointed.

For some of you to truly believe that we are as full of hate as you make out or that we actively work against Shia members on MV is appalling. I would ask you to reread the things written in here and truly search your hearts for what the motivation is and what it may reveal about yourselves.

From my perspective I forgive each of you and ask Allah(swt) to also forgive you.

Wasalam

Ghaith

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Assalam Alaykum,

For those of you who are current or former MV members you will know who I am. I was referred to this forum by someone who knows me and advised that the members here had taken quite a stance against the moderators and admins of MV. I'm not here as a moderator of MV as such but as an individual only. I have to say that after having read this thread I'm extremely disappointed.

For some of you to truly believe that we are as full of hate as you make out or that we actively work against Shia members on MV is appalling. I would ask you to reread the things written in here and truly search your hearts for what the motivation is and what it may reveal about yourselves.

From my perspective I forgive each of you and ask Allah(swt) to also forgive you.

Wasalam

Ghaith

Salams Ghaith,

all of the members that have come from MV to check out this thread have dismissed our fundamental concern, that is a perceived lack of impartiality. Thats ok, we need to move on.

I have already noted that the comments calling Sam a Wahabi and meth addict are wrong. As i did not make those comments i can not retract them nor appologise for them. My comments however, regarding MOTP and Jinnbuster are equally as wrong, and were said during a fit of anger. I should learn to control my temper.

As much as both Jinnbuster and MOTP make comments that demean the Shia belief system it gives me no right to slander them. I will make a personal appology to both of them.

wasalam

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I still can't see how comments stating that Jinnbuster and Mother are stealing oxygen is simply talking about their views. I guess we'll just have to agree to disagree on this one as I don't find any shari'ah basis for such comments to be permissible, either way from my perspective I only have a responsibility to point out the gheeba so that I am not held responsible for it on the Day of Judgement, its up to the members here to do something about it if they want or else face the consequences themselves. The reasons why people commit gheeba are well known by scholars: thirst for revenge, to obtain gratification from anger, peer pressure, to exalt one's self by degrading others, jelousy, and so on. Some of those reasons are pretty obvious in this thread. Instead we should remember death often, the day when we will be called to account for those things we say against other people.

Assalamualaykum.

I'm not even sure what exactly that particular oxygen comment is supposed to mean to be honest, but like I said, from the Shia perspective if a comment is made with the intention of warning people then it does not constitute gheebah and this forum is moderated according to Shia standards, not Sunni standards. If anyone was committing gheebah merely for the reasons you cited then may Allah (swt) forgive them but I prefer not to make negative assumptions about peoples intentions particularly when the context suggests otherwise, and accuse them of gheebah. Others still have apologised for their comments so there's no need for me to get involved. Like you said, I guess we will have to agree to disagree.

walaikumasalam wa rahmatullah

Assalam Alaykum,

For those of you who are current or former MV members you will know who I am. I was referred to this forum by someone who knows me and advised that the members here had taken quite a stance against the moderators and admins of MV. I'm not here as a moderator of MV as such but as an individual only. I have to say that after having read this thread I'm extremely disappointed.

For some of you to truly believe that we are as full of hate as you make out or that we actively work against Shia members on MV is appalling. I would ask you to reread the things written in here and truly search your hearts for what the motivation is and what it may reveal about yourselves.

From my perspective I forgive each of you and ask Allah(swt) to also forgive you.

Wasalam

Ghaith

Walaikumasalam wa rahmatullah,

Personally, I do not believe the mods on MV are full of hate for Shia's. What I do believe is that the moderating against Shia on the site is excessive, the censorship is too great and that all of it is counter-productive to unity. I don't think this is because they intend to actively work against Shia's because they hate Shia, I believe it's just a matter of their minds shutting off as soon as their beliefs start to be put into serious doubt and this causing them to make biased moderating decisions. When you have a thread full of people insulting Shia beliefs and making very rude/vulgar comments towards a Shia member and his family, and this person replies (without resorting to insults or offensive statements) in defence of his beliefs and in the course of his defence posts Sunni ahadith in support of the Shia view and points out that Sunni's themselves have a concept called misyar, then gets banned for this and his comment deleted - what does this tell you? When comments like this do not get deleted:

''I stand by my comments, and if it offends, then it should because if you have a sister 2 be, you would not let me do it with her and you know it! Not that I would want to anyway. I can't bring myself to "cheating" somebody for my nafsanic desires.''

and yet 2be's post which simply cites the quran and ahadith from Sahih al Bukhari and Sahih al Muslim that just happen to support the Shia view gets deleted, what does that tell you? When people on that forum go on about mutah being prostitution and haram and a Shia replies by saying that even Ahlul Sunnah have a concept called misyar (which is similar to mutah), why is it that he gets banned? Like I said, it's not a matter of mods having evil intentions and hate for Shia, I believe it's simply a matter of close-mindedness resulting in them censoring anything that seriously puts into doubt Sunni beliefs. I am not talking about you or any other mod in particular, just the general moderating trend on the board.

Brother Sam is adamant that this did not occur despite not remembering the exact circumstances and even though I told him that it did. Then I said to him that ok let's suppose the mods had honest/unbiased intentions every time or that they were all honest mistakes or whatever, then atleast try to be more careful with your moderating in the future and even that he flatly refuses to do. If he refuses to do even that, then there is nothing much left to say.

wasalaam

Edited by ~RuQaYaH~
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Assalam Alaykum,

It is not my intention to go over every moderating decision that has taken place on MV. You may feel that you have been treated unfairly, that is your view after all. But what I will categorically object to is a notion that there is some structured and concerted campaign against our shia brothers and sisters on MV.

I don't know how the admins & mods on shiachat are like in their daily lives but quite frankly we have much more productive things to be doing with out time than implementing such a policy. Firstly, this was what I took objection to in reading the comments on here and secondly, in the whole time frame that you all seem to be referring to not once, not a single time has ANY member contacted me as a moderator on MV with such a complaint. I was not even aware you felt this way until the discussion arose in the last day or so.

We are not omnipotent, astagfirallah, we do not read every single post. If you have a problem report it and it will be dealt with. If you do not agree with the way in which your concern is addressed then seek clarification.

I have spent some time reading this forum today and in all honesty I can see no difference between the approach taken on here and on MV in relation to the material that is allowed to be posted. I can't comment on the moderating and I will not. But there is material on here which I find quite offensive. I understand that this represents the shia view on certain matters and I have no doubt that if I was to challenge some of this without adab I'd be set in my place or if I posted things which are offensive to the Shia brothers and sisters it would be removed.

But despite all that I do not draw the conclusion that there is some conspiracy against sunni members on here. Nor would I seek to cause fitnah by not respecting the prevalent views and beliefs.

In any event I think I have had my say and insha'Allah in future the communication chanels will work a little better.

Wasalam

Ghaith

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and yet 2be's post which simply cites the quran and ahadith from Sahih al Bukhari and Sahih al Muslim that just happen to support the Shia view gets deleted, what does that tell you? When people on that forum go on about mutah being prostitution and haram and a Shia replies by saying that even Ahlul Sunnah have a concept called misyar (which is similar to mutah), why is it that he gets banned?

If your brother wants to post on MV again why doesn't he just join up under a different name? Or else ask the admins to overturn the ban? After all its been some time now, and other people have done so before.

Edited by abu ismail
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If your brother wants to post on MV again why doesn't he just join up under a different name? Or else ask the admins to overturn the ban? After all its been some time now, and other people have done so before.

I think she has previously stated that they also blacklisted his IP address so that he cannot join under a different username.

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Salam - anyone who visits MV would know who I am with the "Green" and "Thai" name.

If people generally "report to moderator" about issues and concerns we would attend to the issues. I know Iman personally and she is an extremely good friend of mine and if i knew there were serious issues with some posts, I would expect a PM at least so that I can attend to it otherwise I would not know as i do not read every single thread. Being Iman's friend has been a personal journey for myself and I reckon you should adopt a Sunni friend as intra-dialogue/friendship helps (especially for RayRayRay, subhanallah what the :unsure: ? )

Iman, you havent been banned, monitored, or reported because you have an excellent posting style not because you have inside support ;). You should all take lessons from Iman :angel: and not RayRayRay (sis we need to talk!).

I have also closed or deleted threads that may offend Shia Muslims so we dont create unecessary frictions.

Remember to "Report" when you have concerns on MV.

Peace

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Eeep i feel like a kid getting busted by their parents lol. I apologise too and have deleted my posts. I still hold my stance about not going back on MV though, doubt anyone will notice though :)

Edited by Shay
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And to jinnbuster too! We should all boycott Al-Safa's

I happened to see this. I'd like to say that Jinnbuster from MV does not own or work at Al-Safa anymore. He hasn't been part of it for around 3 months. Infact 2 of the workers at the restaurant are Shii'as. We should support our brothers and sisters, not the opposite. And their shawarma is delicious!

Edited by o0o0o
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Salam - anyone who visits MV would know who I am with the "Green" and "Thai" name.

If people generally "report to moderator" about issues and concerns we would attend to the issues. I know Iman personally and she is an extremely good friend of mine and if i knew there were serious issues with some posts, I would expect a PM at least so that I can attend to it otherwise I would not know as i do not read every single thread. Being Iman's friend has been a personal journey for myself and I reckon you should adopt a Sunni friend as intra-dialogue/friendship helps (especially for RayRayRay, subhanallah what the :unsure: ? )

Iman, you havent been banned, monitored, or reported because you have an excellent posting style not because you have inside support ;). You should all take lessons from Iman :angel: and not RayRayRay (sis we need to talk!).

I have also closed or deleted threads that may offend Shia Muslims so we dont create unecessary frictions.

Remember to "Report" when you have concerns on MV.

Peace

Salams sis,

When I saw the 'newmember' on the main page was 'GreenThai' I couldnt help but laugh :lol:

I know that you are 'just' sis and I have no doubt that these are the similar intentions of other mod/admins on MV.

GreenThai, from a psychological perspective how would you expect a group of people who collectively feel an injustice has been done to them to act and feel? And lets not get into whether or not there was an injustice or not.. this is the groups perception. There's no way they'd approach the mods/admins - previous experiences has shown (to them) that nothing has been done and the experiences of others has shown that perhaps they are at risk of being banned if they even do question an admin/mod.

From a psychological perspective again sis what would be the best response to the group? What about the group itself? Is it understandable that the group would 'vent' in another 'forum' either to family/friends (or literally in the case here)?. If the reverse happened, I wouldnt be surprised if i saw a similar thread on MV.

It must be extremely difficult to be an admin/moderator - I personally dont think I could do it. We will all be judged on our hukm - day to day, on both small and large scale issues.

I'm not excusing anything, but please keep in mind that we, as muslims, are not infallible (unlike our beloved a'immah (as) whom Allah swt has blesssed us with as examples to emulate).

We are all the sum of our experiences - good and bad. I have had experiences that I never thought I would have with 'Sunni's' that have left a very sour taste in my mouth, but because I have grown up around Sunni's I know that not all are lke this. Perhaps the Shia's on MV have been countlessly down-trodden and ridiculed and 'oppressed' that their experience on MV was no surpise to them - almost like the straw that broke the camels back. I think for some it's completely understandable. And I'm not excusing anything.. just giving reasons (around 69 others to go ;) )

What we have seen here I think is a result of our 'human-ess'. As we know to err is human.. I doubt it has anything to do with Shia vs Sunni aqeeda but rather personalities and life experiences all contributing to what we think, perceive and therefore how we act and feel.

Inshallah we can call forget and forgive and move on for the better

Edited by Iman
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I happened to see this. I'd like to say that Jinnbuster from MV does not own or work at Al-Safa anymore. He hasn't been part of it for around 3 months. Infact 2 of the workers at the restaurant are Shii'as. We should support our brothers and sisters, not the opposite. And their shawarma is delicious!

I concur. And for RayRay, I cannot stress enough that shi'as and sunnis are brothers and sisters.

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ok Taste of Thai it is then. :lol:

i will drag your sister-in-law to join us.

No No No... you're coming down Hurstville way!! Everyone.. GreenThai thinks that Hurstville is too far from Bankstown :o :!!!:

I concur. And for RayRay, I cannot stress enough that shi'as and sunnis are brothers and sisters.

What makes you think she thinks otherwise? I wont speak on her behalf but if ray's experiences has been negative, maybe there needs to be shown proper sister/brotherhood from others ;)

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Eeep i feel like a kid getting busted by their parents lol. I apologise too and have deleted my posts. I still hold my stance about not going back on MV though, doubt anyone will notice though :)

Some already did sis. Don't worry though....parents in Islam are always forgiving. :D

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Assalam Alaykum,

For those of you who are current or former MV members you will know who I am. I was referred to this forum by someone who knows me and advised that the members here had taken quite a stance against the moderators and admins of MV. I'm not here as a moderator of MV as such but as an individual only. I have to say that after having read this thread I'm extremely disappointed.

For some of you to truly believe that we are as full of hate as you make out or that we actively work against Shia members on MV is appalling. I would ask you to reread the things written in here and truly search your hearts for what the motivation is and what it may reveal about yourselves.

From my perspective I forgive each of you and ask Allah(swt) to also forgive you.

Wasalam

Ghaith

Alaykam Salaam,

A funny post indeed. Why Ghaith do you not ask why we feel this way, or what has bought us to this conclusion? What we are saying is not just being said out of boredom or just for the sake of saying it, there are strong valid reasons behind our statements, all of which you totally disregarded and instead chose to put the "guilt trip" on us.

You know me quite well from MV, and being banned is not the issue (it would be extremely childish of us to be crying over something that petty) rather it is the encouraged anti-shia sentiments that are actively encouraged on MV. You may not see it as you are Sunni and not a "rafidha" but being on the other side of the fence, yes Ghaith, this is the reality of MV. It is extremely secterian. It is the ugly face of Muslims. Subhan'Allah a thread dedicated to Fatima Zahra, the Prophet's daughter was locked because it offended MV forum-users...Subhan'Allah, does this not scream out to you that something is seriously wrong there? What would be so offensive about such a thread dedicated to one of the four promised ladies of Paradise? Could it have possibly been because it was started by a Shia, and as we know Shia's hold Fatima Zahra (a.s) very high in status.

The recurring patterns on MV paint an ugly picture, so rather than coming here and telling us that we should search our hearts and whatnot maybe you could reflect on what has been said here by many former and current MV users (and they are only current as they keep their Shia identity hush-hush). I say this with no disrespect, and I am actually glad that you are here, but I do believe that the onus should not be put on us ShiaChatters but back onto MV. The Shia's made a huge step by joining MV and involving themselves in discussion, befriending many of the members there, we have done our part, it is time for you guys to do yours.

Fi aman Allah,

RayRay

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If your brother wants to post on MV again why doesn't he just join up under a different name? Or else ask the admins to overturn the ban? After all its been some time now, and other people have done so before.

Salaams,

It is not about being a member of MV, this is not what the discussion is about, it is about silencing the Shia members, the inconsistency in their moderating, allowing horrible things to be said about the Shia as I have already stated in an earlier post such as Imam Al-Mahdi the Awaited Prince (atf) is a myth, female Shia's are prostitutes, slandering our Scholars with no reprimand, this is what the discussion is about.

The amount of lies I read about Shia's on MV was incredible, yet we were given no room to correct these false lies and stereotypes as:

1) it is a Sunni forum and they do not want to promote Shia beliefs (though they are more than happy to have Shia stereotypes and lies there)

2) any link you offer to the person questioning or add to a thread is deleted...what the???? How can we fix this stereotype/lie if we cannot even engage in dialogue with the users and guide them to links which go in-depth about our beliefs, why we believe in what we believe etc etc

Plus her brother was so sweet, so well-spoken, almost pansy-like :P seriously why would anyone want to ban him?

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I concur. And for RayRay, I cannot stress enough that shi'as and sunnis are brothers and sisters.

I take quite offense at this statement.

Let me tell you something about my life TDGO.

I recently put MY life on hold to volunteer overseas in the West Bank Palestine for a year. I was ready to risk my own life even though I have a serious health condition, leave my family behind and dedicate myself to helping MY brothers and sisters in Islam.

If I did not think that Shia's and Sunni's were brother and sister I would have chosen a destination where it is richly populated with Shia's. I could have volunteered at Ayatollah Fadlallah's (a Shia) many orphanages scattered around South Lebanon or gone to Afghanistan but I didn't, I chose Palestine, why, because they ARE my brothers and sisters and it is our duty to help.

What have you done for "unity" TDGO other than come on here and tell us that we should respect their views?

If this post comes across to strong, that is my intention as I am greatly offended by your assumption.

Edited by RayRay
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Alaykam Salaam,

A funny post indeed. Why Ghaith do you not ask why we feel this way, or what has bought us to this conclusion? What we are saying is not just being said out of boredom or just for the sake of saying it, there are strong valid reasons behind our statements, all of which you totally disregarded and instead chose to put the "guilt trip" on us.

You know me quite well from MV, and being banned is not the issue (it would be extremely childish of us to be crying over something that petty) rather it is the encouraged anti-shia sentiments that are actively encouraged on MV. You may not see it as you are Sunni and not a "rafidha" but being on the other side of the fence, yes Ghaith, this is the reality of MV. It is extremely secterian. It is the ugly face of Muslims. Subhan'Allah a thread dedicated to Fatima Zahra, the Prophet's daughter was locked because it offended MV forum-users...Subhan'Allah, does this not scream out to you that something is seriously wrong there? What would be so offensive about such a thread dedicated to one of the four promised ladies of Paradise? Could it have possibly been because it was started by a Shia, and as we know Shia's hold Fatima Zahra (a.s) very high in status.

The recurring patterns on MV paint an ugly picture, so rather than coming here and telling us that we should search our hearts and whatnot maybe you could reflect on what has been said here by many former and current MV users (and they are only current as they keep their Shia identity hush-hush). I say this with no disrespect, and I am actually glad that you are here, but I do believe that the onus should not be put on us ShiaChatters but back onto MV. The Shia's made a huge step by joining MV and involving themselves in discussion, befriending many of the members there, we have done our part, it is time for you guys to do yours.

Fi aman Allah,

RayRay

Assalam Alaykum RayRay,

I was going to do a detailed response but have decided to sleep on it rather than respond with my initial thoughts - advice I often give to people on forums. Let me just say that I have not asked why you feel this way because between this thread and the one on MV it is clear why you feel this way. I just don't happen to agree with your fundamental premise that the actions you complain of are grounded in a deliberate campaign against our Shia members or that we harbour hatred towards any of them.

I'll put aside the rest of my response until the cool light of day insha'Allah.

Wasalam

Ghaith

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Salam - anyone who visits MV would know who I am with the "Green" and "Thai" name.

If people generally "report to moderator" about issues and concerns we would attend to the issues. I know Iman personally and she is an extremely good friend of mine and if i knew there were serious issues with some posts, I would expect a PM at least so that I can attend to it otherwise I would not know as i do not read every single thread. Being Iman's friend has been a personal journey for myself and I reckon you should adopt a Sunni friend as intra-dialogue/friendship helps (especially for RayRayRay, subhanallah what the :unsure: ? )

Iman, you havent been banned, monitored, or reported because you have an excellent posting style not because you have inside support ;). You should all take lessons from Iman :angel: and not RayRayRay (sis we need to talk!).

I have also closed or deleted threads that may offend Shia Muslims so we dont create unecessary frictions.

Remember to "Report" when you have concerns on MV.

Peace

Salaams Hanan,

Do you expect me to say something positive about MV after my experience there?

It is quite funny (and nice!) to see all these MV'ers coming on here and making it sound so easy..."just remember guys, press report" when the reality is far different. That avenue was tried, and failed. The concerning post may have been edited, but suspensions and bans were out of the question, yet to ban or suspend a Shia, looool, MV Admins/Moderators are quite experienced at that (for offences which are minute in comparison to what was reported), and THIS is the issue.

P.S Hanan I wasn't Shia my whole life, only the past 2-3 years. Adopting a Sunni friend...I have an entire family whom is Sunni, and when I look at them I don't see SUNNI, no, I see 1) Muslim and 2) Family (or friend). What I speak of in regards to MV is the truth, which as yet has been no apologies for, or even an admission that "yes this unfortunately does happen and Insha'Allah in the future we can tackle this" by any MV user.

(funnily enough the only Shias I do know are the ones I met off MV - there you go, something positive! :D )

Fi aman Allah,

RayRay

Edited by RayRay
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Assalam Alaykum,

It is not my intention to go over every moderating decision that has taken place on MV. You may feel that you have been treated unfairly, that is your view after all. But what I will categorically object to is a notion that there is some structured and concerted campaign against our shia brothers and sisters on MV.

I don't know how the admins & mods on shiachat are like in their daily lives but quite frankly we have much more productive things to be doing with out time than implementing such a policy. Firstly, this was what I took objection to in reading the comments on here and secondly, in the whole time frame that you all seem to be referring to not once, not a single time has ANY member contacted me as a moderator on MV with such a complaint. I was not even aware you felt this way until the discussion arose in the last day or so.

We are not omnipotent, astagfirallah, we do not read every single post. If you have a problem report it and it will be dealt with. If you do not agree with the way in which your concern is addressed then seek clarification.

I have spent some time reading this forum today and in all honesty I can see no difference between the approach taken on here and on MV in relation to the material that is allowed to be posted. I can't comment on the moderating and I will not. But there is material on here which I find quite offensive. I understand that this represents the shia view on certain matters and I have no doubt that if I was to challenge some of this without adab I'd be set in my place or if I posted things which are offensive to the Shia brothers and sisters it would be removed.

But despite all that I do not draw the conclusion that there is some conspiracy against sunni members on here. Nor would I seek to cause fitnah by not respecting the prevalent views and beliefs.

In any event I think I have had my say and insha'Allah in future the communication chanels will work a little better.

Wasalam

Ghaith

Walaikumasalam wa rahmatullah,

The issue I have raised is not about mods failing to take action, it's more about mods taking biased actions hence reporting is not the issue.

As stated above, I agree with you that there's no cencerted campaign against Shia's.

If you can honestly see no difference between the approach taken on here and MV in relation to the material that is allowed to be posted then you either have not been exposed to the site enough or you're in denial. For one thing, this forum has a whole sub-forum dedicated to sunni-shia dialogue whereas MV does not allow that. For another, the Sunni's on here can defend their views till the cows come home and they will not be banned, warned or their posts deleted merely for doing so. Heck, we get plenty of Sunni's coming here promoting their views without mods taking action, let alone disallowing them to defend their views when their views are being attacked.

As for causing fitnah, the ones who initiate attacks on another persons beliefs are the ones causing fitnah, not the one who defends his beliefs.

Having said all that, I do commend you, greenthai, abu ismail and TDGO for you guys atleast taking the concerns raised seriously and taking the time to come here and discuss.

If your brother wants to post on MV again why doesn't he just join up under a different name? Or else ask the admins to overturn the ban? After all its been some time now, and other people have done so before.

Coz this isn't about my brother. I don't think he even cares whether he posts on MV again, he was just an example. The issue here is biased moderating policies/trends against Shia on the board.

Salam - anyone who visits MV would know who I am with the "Green" and "Thai" name.

If people generally "report to moderator" about issues and concerns we would attend to the issues. I know Iman personally and she is an extremely good friend of mine and if i knew there were serious issues with some posts, I would expect a PM at least so that I can attend to it otherwise I would not know as i do not read every single thread. Being Iman's friend has been a personal journey for myself and I reckon you should adopt a Sunni friend as intra-dialogue/friendship helps (especially for RayRayRay, subhanallah what the :unsure: ? )

Iman, you havent been banned, monitored, or reported because you have an excellent posting style not because you have inside support ;). You should all take lessons from Iman :angel: and not RayRayRay (sis we need to talk!).

I have also closed or deleted threads that may offend Shia Muslims so we dont create unecessary frictions.

Remember to "Report" when you have concerns on MV.

Peace

Salam,

As I stated above, the issue here (atleast the one I have raised) is not about mods failing to take action which I completely understand is not always in your hands since people do not always report. The issue is biased mod decisions. As for adopting Sunni friends, I agree with that and would also encourage people to befriend Sunni's if they haven't already done so. In any case, I appreciate your coming here and attempting to make peace. May Allah (Swt) bless you sis.

wasalaam

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Assalaamu Alaikumm,

While I think that there are many on MV who are anti Shia I do not believe that this is a policy of the admin nor are all like this.

RayRayRay, you could attest to the fact that I myself were banned from MV for continuously saying (may God forgive me) that all Shia, like yourself are Kafirs who worship their Imams (alhumdulillah now I have done my thorough research over time and I am now Ithna'Ashariyya by the Grace of God). Perhaps it may be the case that they were too patient with me in warning me many times before banning me but I believe it was not because my comments were anti-Shia and they agreed with them, rather they were because I was ignorant and stupid and they wanted the softly softly approach to get me to change instead of just kicking me out without trying to change me.

I agree that in the past, sometimes it appears that some of the moderators themselves have been biased and not acted because something in their heart or have acted too quickly in an attempt from things going overboard while not allowing a proper right of reply by Shia, but that is not all of MV. I think that there is more room for improvement and MV needs to do more work to ensure that anti-Shia statements and threads are not created and allowed on the forums and when they are delete it and short ban those responsible, or at least let the dialog continue and allow the Shia to respond and clarify and challenge those anti-Shia threads and statements. Sometimes it appears that someone is allowed to say something malicious and the Shia are not allowed to respond which leaves us with a feeling that justice was not allowed to occur.

This however is not always the case!

People like AhmedK who is one of the Admins do not accept any sort of Shia bashing at all and in a recent discussion in the Brothers section regarding Shia/Sunni AhmedK was very firm and also threatened to permanently ban someone for their comments that were trying to defame and incite hate against Shia. The discussion which was in created by someone in an attempt to discuss converting Shia to Sunni (as one Sunni brother liked a Shia sister he knew). I believe that some peoples intentions who participated were not sincere.. And Some felt sorry for Shia and wanted to help guide them to a better way, but they saw Shia as muslims and just needed some misconceptions set up too. No doubt on this thread there are many efforts of Shia trying to show the beauty of the School of Ahlul Bayt, to debate the Sunni and get them to join us in our madhab. This thread turned into a very good dialog where many misconceptions were clarified on both sides and the Admins including both Sam and AhmedK were very clear that they consider Shia as Muslims, they may not agree with everything that Shia believe but they see them as Muslims and as brothers and said that such an attempt at trying to convert Shia-Sunni is a waste of time because Shia are already Muslims and daw'ah is better given to non-Muslims instead of arguing. We respectfully discussed this issue and many Sunni's defended me against personal attacks and encouraged me to keep going.. So far the thread has gone on for 7 pages and it may still be going!

I believe that MV is working towards being more just and fair and applaud their efforts.

Massalaama,

Adonis

Edited by Malik.Shakur
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As a side note also I think that if there has been any insulting or lies spoken of members of MV that those responsible should be warned and their posts moderated.. It's not a good example of the beauty of the School of Ahlul Bayt to behave in this way..

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Assalaamu Alaikumm,

While I think that there are many on MV who are anti Shia I do not believe that this is a policy of the admin nor are all like this.

RayRayRay, you could attest to the fact that I myself were banned from MV for continuously saying (may God forgive me) that all Shia, like yourself are Kafirs who worship their Imams (alhumdulillah now I have done my thorough research over time and I am now Ithna'Ashariyya by the Grace of God). Perhaps it may be the case that they were

People like AhmedK who is one of the Admins do not accept any sort of Shia bashing at all

Alaykam Salaam,

You did it??????!!!!!! :!!!:

WOW, Masha'Allah, congratulations! May Allah (swt) reward you! This is great news to hear first thing in the morning! :)

And yes I agree 100% with your commenting regarding ahmedK. May Allah (swt) reward him.

In any case, I appreciate your coming here and attempting to make peace.

I reiterate that point. It is nice seeing you guys come on here.

Fi aman Allah,

RayRay

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Alaykam Salaam,

You did it??????!!!!!! :!!!:

WOW, Masha'Allah, congratulations! May Allah (swt) reward you! This is great news to hear first thing in the morning! :)

Fi aman Allah,

RayRay

Assalaamu Alaikumm sis :)

Alhumdulillah.. I took quite a long time to study.. The first thing I did was to get rid of any preconceived notions that what I had been previously taught was correct.. And I looked with critical thinking, logic, reasoning and praying to God for guidance.. I researched it thoroughly first finding out all of the criticisms of Shia from Sunni's.. I took that to Shia scholars and did research and found that the concerns Sunni's had were either fabricated, taken out of context or things which could be justified with Qur'an and Sunnah. I then researched historical accounts and other hadith to see..

After all of this I realized that I was heading the right way, alhumdulillah and now I am ithna'Ashariyya.. I also sent you an email the other day btw..

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If you can honestly see no difference between the approach taken on here and MV in relation to the material that is allowed to be posted then you either have not been exposed to the site enough or you're in denial. For one thing, this forum has a whole sub-forum dedicated to sunni-shia dialogue whereas MV does not allow that. For another, the Sunni's on here can defend their views till the cows come home and they will not be banned, warned or their posts deleted merely for doing so. Heck, we get plenty of Sunni's coming here promoting their views without mods taking action, let alone disallowing them to defend their views when their views are being attacked.

Just because two forums have different approaches doesn't mean one is right and one is wrong. MV has a very strict approach to discussing Islamic topics on its forums, as it's the owners view that one needs to have proper scholarly qualifications to be in the position to do so. From my observation, most sunni-shi'a dialogues involve trying to prove each others point of view by quoting Hadiths and Qur'an verses, which unfortunately means that its almost impossible to include a sunni-shia dialogue forum on MV and remain within the rules, which is why they don't have such a forum.

Now you can certainly argue that you don't agree with their approach and have the right to, however I don't think its fair to accuse them of being biased simply because this forum takes a different view.

And in regards to defending views, I haven't spent a lot of time on this forum but I do note it has some pretty strict rules regarding what a person can say about Mu'awiya (ra), and if a Sunni wanted to defend his or her belief in a manner that exceeded the limits of what the forum moderators felt was acceptable, then you would expect them to moderate it here, and similarly on MV. That person might feel they were being discriminated against, or that there was some bias going on, but in fact that is not the case here nor is it the case on MV.

Coz this isn't about my brother. I don't think he even cares whether he posts on MV again, he was just an example. The issue here is biased moderating policies/trends against Shia on the board.

Sorry, its just that the way you keep going on about your brother I thought it was about him. I guess my suggestion goes for anyone that feels they have been unfairly treated, they always have the option of contacting the mods on MV and ask if their access can be given back. Like I said, they're not ones to hold grudges.

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Alaykam Salaam,

A funny post indeed. Why Ghaith do you not ask why we feel this way, or what has bought us to this conclusion? What we are saying is not just being said out of boredom or just for the sake of saying it, there are strong valid reasons behind our statements, all of which you totally disregarded and instead chose to put the "guilt trip" on us.

You know me quite well from MV, and being banned is not the issue (it would be extremely childish of us to be crying over something that petty) rather it is the encouraged anti-shia sentiments that are actively encouraged on MV. You may not see it as you are Sunni and not a "rafidha" but being on the other side of the fence, yes Ghaith, this is the reality of MV. It is extremely secterian. It is the ugly face of Muslims. Subhan'Allah a thread dedicated to Fatima Zahra, the Prophet's daughter was locked because it offended MV forum-users...Subhan'Allah, does this not scream out to you that something is seriously wrong there? What would be so offensive about such a thread dedicated to one of the four promised ladies of Paradise? Could it have possibly been because it was started by a Shia, and as we know Shia's hold Fatima Zahra (a.s) very high in status.

The recurring patterns on MV paint an ugly picture, so rather than coming here and telling us that we should search our hearts and whatnot maybe you could reflect on what has been said here by many former and current MV users (and they are only current as they keep their Shia identity hush-hush). I say this with no disrespect, and I am actually glad that you are here, but I do believe that the onus should not be put on us ShiaChatters but back onto MV. The Shia's made a huge step by joining MV and involving themselves in discussion, befriending many of the members there, we have done our part, it is time for you guys to do yours.

Fi aman Allah,

RayRay

Assalamu alaykum sister,

There are a couple of points in your post that I would like to respond to insha'Allah. Firstly, I'm not here to put anyone on any guilt trip. With all due respect, and despite some recent comments to the contrary, this discussion and the recent one on MV started off very clearly on the basis that the Admins/Mods of MV had a hatred towards Shia's and deliberately discriminated against them. It was these comments that brought me to this forum and my asking you to look into your heart was and is nothing more than a naseeha for people to consider their motives AND the basis for making those comments. If you still believe that to be the case then there is nothing I or anyone else can do except leave you to your thouhts on that one. I am not going to continue to deny something that never existed in the first place.

Secondly, the thread in relation to Sitna Fatimah Zahra(ra), would not have been locked on the basis you mentioned nor is it offensive to Sunnis in any way. Without being able to go back and look at the thread I expect that comments were exchanged which went beyond that and probably from both sides - this is why it would have been locked. It was NOT deleted because there is absolutely nothing wrong with the thread or its original intentions.

Thirdly, I'm actually quite offended by the assertion that the only reason why current members have not been banned is because they have kept their status as Shia secret. How do you know this? There are at least 2 people who have posted in this thread who are known to me 100% from MV. The thought has never crossed my mind to ban either of them and it has nothing to do with them being Shia or not. It has EVERYTHING to do with them being sisters of adab and akhlaq. I would be extremely disappointed if they shared your same view on this point.

Salaams,

It is not about being a member of MV, this is not what the discussion is about, it is about silencing the Shia members, the inconsistency in their moderating, allowing horrible things to be said about the Shia as I have already stated in an earlier post such as Imam Al-Mahdi the Awaited Prince (atf) is a myth, female Shia's are prostitutes, slandering our Scholars with no reprimand, this is what the discussion is about.

The amount of lies I read about Shia's on MV was incredible, yet we were given no room to correct these false lies and stereotypes as:

1) it is a Sunni forum and they do not want to promote Shia beliefs (though they are more than happy to have Shia stereotypes and lies there)

2) any link you offer to the person questioning or add to a thread is deleted...what the???? How can we fix this stereotype/lie if we cannot even engage in dialogue with the users and guide them to links which go in-depth about our beliefs, why we believe in what we believe etc etc

Plus her brother was so sweet, so well-spoken, almost pansy-like :P seriously why would anyone want to ban him?

I think I've said enough on the issue of silencing shia members. If that does not satisfy you then I'm sorry but nothing further I say on that will. In relation to the specific points you raised about comments in relation to shia beliefs, I would say the following:

1. As it is a Sunni forum there is clearly going to be material allowed on there which goes directly against some of the Shia beliefs and which you would find offensive. There is not getting around this. But this was my point about this site being similar. There is material on here in relation to Sitna Aisha(ra) which I, as a Sunni, find extremely offensive. If I was to ask for this to be removed, what is the likely response? I'm reasonably sure I know what it would be.

2. Calling female shia's prostitutes would be very much against our rules and would not be permitted to remain. Are you saying these comments were allowed and left on?

3. Also the slandering of any scholar is also against our rules. People are entitled to put their view about what the scholar says but it should be done with proper adab. We get the same complaints from all groups on this one, salafis, sufis, etc. We are not perfect and sometimes it does happen but we try and deal with it when it comes to our attention.

Walaikumasalam wa rahmatullah,

The issue I have raised is not about mods failing to take action, it's more about mods taking biased actions hence reporting is not the issue.

As stated above, I agree with you that there's no cencerted campaign against Shia's.

If you can honestly see no difference between the approach taken on here and MV in relation to the material that is allowed to be posted then you either have not been exposed to the site enough or you're in denial. For one thing, this forum has a whole sub-forum dedicated to sunni-shia dialogue whereas MV does not allow that. For another, the Sunni's on here can defend their views till the cows come home and they will not be banned, warned or their posts deleted merely for doing so. Heck, we get plenty of Sunni's coming here promoting their views without mods taking action, let alone disallowing them to defend their views when their views are being attacked.

As for causing fitnah, the ones who initiate attacks on another persons beliefs are the ones causing fitnah, not the one who defends his beliefs.

Having said all that, I do commend you, greenthai, abu ismail and TDGO for you guys atleast taking the concerns raised seriously and taking the time to come here and discuss.

Coz this isn't about my brother. I don't think he even cares whether he posts on MV again, he was just an example. The issue here is biased moderating policies/trends against Shia on the board.

Salam,

As I stated above, the issue here (atleast the one I have raised) is not about mods failing to take action which I completely understand is not always in your hands since people do not always report. The issue is biased mod decisions. As for adopting Sunni friends, I agree with that and would also encourage people to befriend Sunni's if they haven't already done so. In any case, I appreciate your coming here and attempting to make peace. May Allah (Swt) bless you sis.

wasalaam

I hope I have explained my point in relation to the similarities issue above. You are right about my not being exposed to this site for long enough though and that is why in my initial post I said I could not comment on the moderating of sunni members on here. I was referring to the approach to allowing content generally.

I do not agree though that our shia members are not allowed to defend their views or beliefs but there are rules that apply when doing this. As a sunni forum we will NOT allow the slandering of any of the sahaba or sitna Aisha(ra) for example. Now I'd hope that our shia members would be able to engage in the discussion without doing this but unfortunately sometimes that is not the case. We make no apology for shutting down those discussions or deleting that material. As brother Malik has noted above however, when the rules are adhered to then the discussion can be quite fruitful. The particular discussion he refers to has been going on and off since April this year - well before this latest issue arose. At various points people, on both sides, have been warned that they are starting to encroach on the boundaries and have corrected their behaviour. That discussion continues.

I'm really not sure where all of this gets us however. People are obviously still quite upset about their percieved treatment and in the absence of them re-engaging in the discussion there is not going to be an opportunity for any perceptions to change. I would hope that we could at least put to bed this issue of bias and discrimination though. But if not then I'm sorry to leave you still feeling that way.

Wasalam

Ghaith

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I take quite offense at this statement.

Let me tell you something about my life TDGO.

I recently put MY life on hold to volunteer overseas in the West Bank Palestine for a year. I was ready to risk my own life even though I have a serious health condition, leave my family behind and dedicate myself to helping MY brothers and sisters in Islam.

If I did not think that Shia's and Sunni's were brother and sister I would have chosen a destination where it is richly populated with Shia's. I could have volunteered at Ayatollah Fadlallah's (a Shia) many orphanages scattered around South Lebanon or gone to Afghanistan but I didn't, I chose Palestine, why, because they ARE my brothers and sisters and it is our duty to help.

What have you done for "unity" TDGO other than come on here and tell us that we should respect their views?

If this post comes across to strong, that is my intention as I am greatly offended by your assumption.

(salam)

Fair enough to call it an assumption and but what I assumed was based on nothing more than your last post addressed at me.

"I was all for unity and respecting each others differences, I had to my bro-in-law is Sunni, but after seeing how off-course these people are there is nothing to respect, nothing!"

"And the more I read and learn and interact with these people the less respect I have."

(wasalam)

these-days-go-on

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