Jump to content
Guests can now reply in ALL forum topics (No registration required!) ×
Guests can now reply in ALL forum topics (No registration required!)
In the Name of God بسم الله

Ayat Tatheer (33:33)

Rate this topic


Recommended Posts

  • Advanced Member

Yiligz, I don't think you're here to discuss, but to just spend some of your free time in vain discourse.

Good luck with your research, you have much studying to do.

5:3 was revealed in two different places. Go and research this fact.

- Mansab

Edited by mansab.jafri
Link to post
Share on other sites
  • Replies 100
  • Created
  • Last Reply

Top Posters In This Topic

Top Posters In This Topic

Popular Posts

No the verse after it does not mention wives specifically. Even if you want to argue it is still addressing them, the topic is completely different from staying home and is about remembering the Quran

Salaam. A brother just asked in one of his threads: Salaam. The Qur'an does not say that wives are part of Ahlul'bayt (a.s.). What the Qur'an says is: "O Prophet! say to your wives: If you desire this

only reason the wifes are not in ahlulbayt is because, if there is a divorce between man and wife they r no longer part of the family. so there is always that part that will/might be broken, but ur so

but since someone is already addressed in the preceeding part of the verse it is referring to them.

ok so because it's talking about them to Mohammad (SaW) in 33:55, then switches to them in the verse, it's not strange cause it has then mentioned.

The last word before Inama is Rasool, so Allah (swt) is discussing Rasool (SaW), so why can't he turn to the Rasool (SaW) and tell him about his reality as well as his family (as)? [which also encourages the wives to not prefer world (rijs) over Mohammad (pbuh) who is city of God's treasures.]

no i don't. Thats a single verse and it was definitely addressed as a whole unless you are one of those who say that chronological order of Quran also meant that surahs were all scrambled like a jigsaw puzzle and Imam Ali couldn't even complete the job of completing the puzzle.

Ok wherever an aya is revealed or any part of it, don't you agree at the end it has to come into the Surah, and so who put's it together? Mohammad (SaW) right.. so why can't two parts of a verse be revealed in different contexts?

Also, let's suppose 33:33 was revealed at once, why can't it be seen the first half is for the wives and then 2nd part for Ahlulbayt (as) and hence why he calls them (as) while at wives house.

Can it be possible that first half of 33:33 thus was said to every wife in her home and then ahlul-Kisaa called for the 2nd half?

Why can't you accept hadithal Kisaa and order of Quran?

Edited by Link
Link to post
Share on other sites
ok so because it's talking about them to Mohammad (SaW) in 33:55, then switches to them in the verse, it's not strange cause it has then mentioned.

The last word before Inama is Rasool, so Allah (swt) is discussing Rasool (SaW), so why can't he turn to the Rasool (SaW) and tell him about his reality as well as his family as.gif? [which also encourages the wives to not prefer world (rijs) over Mohammad pbuh.gif who is city of God's treasures.]

bro what are you on about. The verses are clear enough. Rest be assured, these are not sites created by me

http://www.submission.org/suras/sura33.html

[33:55] The women may relax (their dress code) around their fathers, their sons, their brothers, the sons of their brothers, the sons of their sisters, the other women, and their (female) servants. They shall reverence GOD. GOD witnesses all things.

Also, let's suppose 33:33 was revealed at once, why can't it be seen the first half is for the wives and then 2nd part for Ahlulbayt as.gif and hence why he calls them as.gif while at wives house.

The greatness of the house of Ali isn't into question. The thing is that it is the Prophet's house which is being mentioned in this verse.

Link to post
Share on other sites
  • Advanced Member
Can we list the Ayah's that are similar to 33:33. I mean written the same way so we could get a clearer picture

Salaam, bro. What do you mean?

Do you mean the Ayahs that are similar in meaning or the Ayahs which are structured in a way like how this Ayah is in the midst of the verses directed towards the wives, but is referenced to a different group of people?

- Mansab

Link to post
Share on other sites
  • 8 months later...
  • Advanced Member
thanks at lease some shia have some common sense,ask them isnt your mother a part of your family??lol

Looks like Salafi disease of Literalism is extremely contengious :lol:

Imam Abul Hussayn Muslim ibn al-Hajjaj Qushayri al Neyshaburi al Farsi, in his Sahih al Muslimwhich is the scond widely recognized authentic book of Sunnis;

He (Husain Ibn Sabra) said to Zaid ibn Arqam: "Who are the Members of His Household? Aren't his wives the members of his family?Thereupon Zaid ibn Arqam said: His wives are among His Household but here Ahlul Bayt are those for whom acceptance of Zakat is forbidden. And he said: Who are they? Thereupon he said: Ali and the offspring of Ali; Aqil and the offspring of Aqil, and the offspring of Ja'far and the offspring of Abbas."[/color] -- Sahih al Muslim, Chapter of 'Fadha'il al Sahaba', Section of the 'Virtues of Ali (a.s)', Volume 4, page 1873, tradition #36.

Obviously Zaid ibn Arqam is being generous here by adding Aqil and his offsrping, Ja'far and Abbas and their offsprings into the list but the point was to prove from your sources that the wives of Prophet (S) are his Household but they are not included in Ahlul bayt al Nubuwwah.

This problem is that the Wahabis and their ignorant followers are suffering from disease of Literalism, they are unable to differentiate between Literal and Figurative expressions. As a result of literally interpreting the verses of Quran by the Salafi Nasibis (just like Khawarij) we witness them worshipping a God who has feet, arms, fingers, eyes, ears and I think every thursday night come to earth etc.

Link to post
Share on other sites
  • 7 months later...
  • Basic Members

The context in which this verse occurs makes it manifest that the word ahl al-bait (people of the house) here implies the wives of the Holy Prophet (upon whom be Allah's peace), because the address begins with: "O wives of the Prophet," and they are the addressees in the whole discourse preceding it as well as following it. Moreover, the word ahl al-bait in Arabic is used precisely in the sense in which the word "household" is used in English, which includes both a man's wife and children. No one would exclude the wife from the "household." The Qur'an itself has used this word at two other places besides this, and at both the wife is included in its sense, rather as the most important member of the family. In Surah Hud, whcn the angels give the Prophet Abraham the good news of the birth of a son, his wife exclaims: "Shall I bear a child now when I have grown too old, and this husband of mine has also become old?" The angels say: What! Are you surprised at Allah's decree, O people of Abraham's household? Allah's mercy and blessings are upon you."

In Surah Al-Qasas, whcn the Prophet Moses reaches the Pharaoh's house as a suckling, and the Pharaoh's wife is in search of a suitable nurse for the child, the Prophet Moses' sister says, "Shall I tell you of a household whose people will bring him up for you and look after him well?" Thus, the Arabic idiom and the usage of the Qur'an and the context of this verse, 'all point clearly to the fact that the Holy Prophet's wives as well as his children are included in his ahl al-bait; rather the more correct thing is that the verse is actually addressed to the wives and the children become included in the household only because of the sense of the word. That is why according to lbn 'Abbas and 'Urwah bin Zubair and `Ikrimah, the word ahl al-bait in this verse implies the wives of the Holy Prophet.

But if somebody says that the word ahl al-bait has been used only for the wives and none else can be included in it, it will also be wrong. Not only this that the word "household" includes all the members of a man's family, but the Holy Prophet has himself explained that this includes even himself. According to Ibn Abi Hatim, once when Hadrat `A'ishah was asked about Hadrat `Ali, she said, Do you ask me about the person who was among the most loved ones of the Holy Prophet and whose wife was the Holy Prophet's daughter and most beloved to him?"

Then she related the event when the Holy Prophet had called Hadrat 'Ali and Fatimah and Hasan and Husain (may Allah be pleased with them all) and covered them all with a sheet of cloth and prayed: "O Allah, these are my household, remove uncleanness from them and make them pure." Hadrat 'A'ishah says, "I said: I also am included among your household (i.e. I may also be covered under the sheet and prayed for). " Thereupon the Holy Prophet replied" You stay out: you, . of course, are already included." A great many Ahadith bearing on this subject have been related by traditionalists like Muslim, Tirmidhi, Ahmad, Ibn Jarir, Hakim, Baihaqi, etc. on the authority of Abu Said Khudri, Hadrat 'A'ishah, Hadrat Anas, Hadrat Umm Salamah, Hadrat Wathilah bin Aqsa' and some other Companions, which show that the Holy Prophet declared Hadrat 'AIi and Fatimah and their two sons as his ahl al-bait. Therefore, the view of those who exclude them from the ahl al-bait is not correct.

Similarly the view of those people also is not correct, who, on the basis of the above-cited Ahadith, regard the wives of the Holy Prophet as excluded from his ahl al-bait. In the first place, anything which has been clearly stated in the Quran cannot be contradicted on the basis of a Hadith. Secondly, these Ahadith also do not have the meaning that is put on them. As related in some traditions that the Holy Prophet did not cover Hadrat 'A'ishah and Hadrat Umm Salamah under the sheet of cloth which he put on the four members of his family, dces not mean that he had excluded those ladies from his "household." But it means that the wives were already included in ahl al-bait, because the Qur'an, in fact, had addressed them as ahl al-bait. The Holy Prophet, however, thought that the apparent words of the Qur'an might cause somebody the misunderstanding about these members that they were excluded from the ahl al-bait. Therefore, he felt the need for clarification in their case and not in the case of his wives.

A section of the people have not only misconstrued this verse to the extent that they have made the word ahl al-bait exclusively applicable to Hadrat `AIi and Fatimah and their children to the exclusion of the holy wives, but have gone even further and concluded wrongly from its words "Allah only intends to remove uncleanliness from you and purify you completely", that Hadrat 'Ali and Fatimah and their children are infallible like the Prophets of Allah. They say that "uncleanliness" implies error and sin, and, as Allah says, these ahl al-bait have been purified of this, whereas the words of the verse do not say that uncleanliness has been removed from them and they have been purified. But the words are to the effect: "Allah intends to remove uncleanliness from you and purify you completely. "

The context also does not tell that the object here is to mention the virtues and excellences of the Holy Prophet's household. On the contrary, they have been advised here what they should do and what they should not, because Allah intends to purify them. In other words, they have been told that if they adopted such and such an attitude and way of life, they will be blessed with cleanliness, otherwise not. However, if the words "Allah intends to remove uncleanliness from yon . . . " are taken to mean that Allah has made them infallible, then is no reason why all the Muslims who perform their ablutions before offering the Prayer are not held as infallible, because about them also Allah says: "But Allah wills to purify you and complete His blessings upon you." (Al-Ma'idah: 6)

http://www.quran.net/

Link to post
Share on other sites
  • Basic Members

Verse # 32 and 33 are clear verses of Holy Quran in which Allah addresses to the wives of the Prophet(PBUH). Since the wives of Prophet(PBUH) are the addressee so it is understood that they are included in 'Alhle Bait'. This point is also discussed in Tafsir ibn Kathir, "This is a clear statement that the wives of the Prophet are included among the members of his family (Ahl Al-Bayt) here, because they are the reason why this Ayah was revealed, and the scholars are unanimously agreed that they were the reason for revelation in this case, whether this was the only reason for revelation or there was also another reason, which is the correct view."

Now the question arises whether Hadrat ALi, Fatima, Hassan and Hussain Radi Allah Anhum are included or not. For this purpose we need to consult to Hadiths which prove that these pious personalities are also included.

So please don't make things difficult to comprehend which are clear by Allah.

Link to post
Share on other sites
  • Advanced Member

The context in which this verse occurs makes it manifest that the word ahl al-bait (people of the house) here implies the wives of the Holy Prophet (upon whom be Allah's peace), because the address begins with: "O wives of the Prophet," and they are the addressees in the whole discourse preceding it as well as following it. Moreover, the word ahl al-bait in Arabic is used precisely in the sense in which the word "household" is used in English, which includes both a man's wife and children. No one would exclude the wife from the "household." The Qur'an itself has used this word at two other places besides this, and at both the wife is included in its sense, rather as the most important member of the family. In Surah Hud, whcn the angels give the Prophet Abraham the good news of the birth of a son, his wife exclaims: "Shall I bear a child now when I have grown too old, and this husband of mine has also become old?" The angels say: What! Are you surprised at Allah's decree, O people of Abraham's household? Allah's mercy and blessings are upon you."

In Surah Al-Qasas, whcn the Prophet Moses reaches the Pharaoh's house as a suckling, and the Pharaoh's wife is in search of a suitable nurse for the child, the Prophet Moses' sister says, "Shall I tell you of a household whose people will bring him up for you and look after him well?" Thus, the Arabic idiom and the usage of the Qur'an and the context of this verse, 'all point clearly to the fact that the Holy Prophet's wives as well as his children are included in his ahl al-bait; rather the more correct thing is that the verse is actually addressed to the wives and the children become included in the household only because of the sense of the word. That is why according to lbn 'Abbas and 'Urwah bin Zubair and `Ikrimah, the word ahl al-bait in this verse implies the wives of the Holy Prophet.

But if somebody says that the word ahl al-bait has been used only for the wives and none else can be included in it, it will also be wrong. Not only this that the word "household" includes all the members of a man's family, but the Holy Prophet has himself explained that this includes even himself. According to Ibn Abi Hatim, once when Hadrat `A'ishah was asked about Hadrat `Ali, she said, Do you ask me about the person who was among the most loved ones of the Holy Prophet and whose wife was the Holy Prophet's daughter and most beloved to him?"

Then she related the event when the Holy Prophet had called Hadrat 'Ali and Fatimah and Hasan and Husain (may Allah be pleased with them all) and covered them all with a sheet of cloth and prayed: "O Allah, these are my household, remove uncleanness from them and make them pure." Hadrat 'A'ishah says, "I said: I also am included among your household (i.e. I may also be covered under the sheet and prayed for). " Thereupon the Holy Prophet replied" You stay out: you, . of course, are already included." A great many Ahadith bearing on this subject have been related by traditionalists like Muslim, Tirmidhi, Ahmad, Ibn Jarir, Hakim, Baihaqi, etc. on the authority of Abu Said Khudri, Hadrat 'A'ishah, Hadrat Anas, Hadrat Umm Salamah, Hadrat Wathilah bin Aqsa' and some other Companions, which show that the Holy Prophet declared Hadrat 'AIi and Fatimah and their two sons as his ahl al-bait. Therefore, the view of those who exclude them from the ahl al-bait is not correct.

Similarly the view of those people also is not correct, who, on the basis of the above-cited Ahadith, regard the wives of the Holy Prophet as excluded from his ahl al-bait. In the first place, anything which has been clearly stated in the Quran cannot be contradicted on the basis of a Hadith. Secondly, these Ahadith also do not have the meaning that is put on them. As related in some traditions that the Holy Prophet did not cover Hadrat 'A'ishah and Hadrat Umm Salamah under the sheet of cloth which he put on the four members of his family, dces not mean that he had excluded those ladies from his "household." But it means that the wives were already included in ahl al-bait, because the Qur'an, in fact, had addressed them as ahl al-bait. The Holy Prophet, however, thought that the apparent words of the Qur'an might cause somebody the misunderstanding about these members that they were excluded from the ahl al-bait. Therefore, he felt the need for clarification in their case and not in the case of his wives.

A section of the people have not only misconstrued this verse to the extent that they have made the word ahl al-bait exclusively applicable to Hadrat `AIi and Fatimah and their children to the exclusion of the holy wives, but have gone even further and concluded wrongly from its words "Allah only intends to remove uncleanliness from you and purify you completely", that Hadrat 'Ali and Fatimah and their children are infallible like the Prophets of Allah. They say that "uncleanliness" implies error and sin, and, as Allah says, these ahl al-bait have been purified of this, whereas the words of the verse do not say that uncleanliness has been removed from them and they have been purified. But the words are to the effect: "Allah intends to remove uncleanliness from you and purify you completely. "

The context also does not tell that the object here is to mention the virtues and excellences of the Holy Prophet's household. On the contrary, they have been advised here what they should do and what they should not, because Allah intends to purify them. In other words, they have been told that if they adopted such and such an attitude and way of life, they will be blessed with cleanliness, otherwise not. However, if the words "Allah intends to remove uncleanliness from yon . . . " are taken to mean that Allah has made them infallible, then is no reason why all the Muslims who perform their ablutions before offering the Prayer are not held as infallible, because about them also Allah says: "But Allah wills to purify you and complete His blessings upon you." (Al-Ma'idah: 6)

http://www.quran.net/

how many times we have to discredit the notion that the wives are excluded from Ahlul Bayt and Bibi Sarah was included because she had a blood relationship with the Prophethood (through her sons).

Even sons can be excluded from Family or Ahlul Bayt

[11:45]

And Noah called upon his Lord, and said:

"O my Lord! surely my son is of my family!

and Thy promise is true,

and Thou art the justest of Judges!"

Allah's answer is:

[11:46]

He said: "O Noah! He is not of thy family:

For his conduct is unrighteous.

So ask not of Me that of which thou hast no knowledge!

I give thee counsel, lest thou act like the ignorant!"

Link to post
Share on other sites
  • Basic Members

how many times we have to discredit the notion that the wives are excluded from Ahlul Bayt and Bibi Sarah was included because she had a blood relationship with the Prophethood (through her sons).

Even sons can be excluded from Family or Ahlul Bayt

[11:45]

And Noah called upon his Lord, and said:

"O my Lord! surely my son is of my family!

and Thy promise is true,

and Thou art the justest of Judges!"

Allah's answer is:

[11:46]

He said: "O Noah! He is not of thy family:

For his conduct is unrighteous.

So ask not of Me that of which thou hast no knowledge!

I give thee counsel, lest thou act like the ignorant!"

Preceding and following verses are being addressed to the wives of the prophet(PBUH) (since they are being asked what should be their exemplary character) and they are not included. Its amazing....By the way! This is not my interpretation but the interpretation of 85% of Muslim scholars.

Also, What can one say if one gives his own interpretation and rejects the interpretation of majority. May Allah guide us all.

Link to post
Share on other sites
  • Advanced Member

Preceding and following verses are being addressed to the wives of the prophet(PBUH) (since they are being asked what should be their exemplary character) and they are not included. Its amazing....By the way! This is not my interpretation but the interpretation of 85% of Muslim scholars.

Also, What can one say if one gives his own interpretation and rejects the interpretation of majority. May Allah guide us all.

Please read your own sahihs and they will show that this verse was not for the wives.

Narrated Aisha:

One day the Prophet (PBUH&HF) came out afternoon wearing a black cloak (upper garment or gown; long coat), then al-Hasan Ibn Ali came and the Prophet accommodated him under the cloak, then al-Husain came and entered the cloak, then Fatimah came and the Prophet entered her under the cloak, then Ali came and the Prophet entered him to the cloak as well. Then the Prophet recited: "Verily Allah intends to keep off from you every kind of uncleanness O' People of the House (Ahlul-Bayt), and purify you a perfect purification (the last sentence of Verse 33:33)."

Sunni reference:

Sahih Muslim, Chapter of virtues of companions, section of the virtues of the Ahlul-Bayt of the Prophet (PBUH&HF), 1980 Edition Pub. in Saudi Arabia, Arabic version, v4, p1883, Tradition #61.

-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Another version of the "Tradition of Cloak" is written in Sahih al-Tirmidhi, which is narrated in the authority of Umar Ibn Abi Salama, the son of Umm Salama (another wife of Prophet), which is as follows:

The verse "Verily Allah intends to ... (33:33)" was revealed to the Prophet (PBUH&HF) in the house of Umm Salama. Upon that, the Prophet gathered Fatimah, al-Hasan, and al-Husain, and covered them with a cloak, and he also covered Ali who was behind him. Then the Prophet said: "O' Allah! These are the Members of my House (Ahlul-Bayt). Keep them away from every impurity and purify them with a perfect purification." Umm Salama (the wife of Prophet) asked: "Am I also included among them O Apostle of Allah?" the Prophet replied: "You remain in your position and you are toward a good ending."

Sunni reference: Sahih al-Tirmidhi, v5, pp 351,663

Link to post
Share on other sites
  • Basic Members

Please read your own sahihs and they will show that this verse was not for the wives.

Narrated Aisha:

One day the Prophet (PBUH&HF) came out afternoon wearing a black cloak (upper garment or gown; long coat), then al-Hasan Ibn Ali came and the Prophet accommodated him under the cloak, then al-Husain came and entered the cloak, then Fatimah came and the Prophet entered her under the cloak, then Ali came and the Prophet entered him to the cloak as well. Then the Prophet recited: "Verily Allah intends to keep off from you every kind of uncleanness O' People of the House (Ahlul-Bayt), and purify you a perfect purification (the last sentence of Verse 33:33)."

Sunni reference:

Sahih Muslim, Chapter of virtues of companions, section of the virtues of the Ahlul-Bayt of the Prophet (PBUH&HF), 1980 Edition Pub. in Saudi Arabia, Arabic version, v4, p1883, Tradition #61.

-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Another version of the "Tradition of Cloak" is written in Sahih al-Tirmidhi, which is narrated in the authority of Umar Ibn Abi Salama, the son of Umm Salama (another wife of Prophet), which is as follows:

The verse "Verily Allah intends to ... (33:33)" was revealed to the Prophet (PBUH&HF) in the house of Umm Salama. Upon that, the Prophet gathered Fatimah, al-Hasan, and al-Husain, and covered them with a cloak, and he also covered Ali who was behind him. Then the Prophet said: "O' Allah! These are the Members of my House (Ahlul-Bayt). Keep them away from every impurity and purify them with a perfect purification." Umm Salama (the wife of Prophet) asked: "Am I also included among them O Apostle of Allah?" the Prophet replied: "You remain in your position and you are toward a good ending."

Sunni reference: Sahih al-Tirmidhi, v5, pp 351,663

You people give references from Sahih bukhari and muslim but don't give its underlined sharah(explanation) which makes it half truth and the other half remains hidden. Just like some verses of Quran need explanation, so is necessary for some hadith. What i m trying to say is that what is understood needs not to be mentioned, thats why the hadith does not include the wives of prophet (pbuh) because it is clearly mentioned by Allah in the ayat(so it is not mentioned in hadith). The confusion was whether the other pious personalities were included or not, so prophet cleared this misunderstanding.

I can give u lot of references from other hadiths which include that this ayah was only about the wives of prophet(PBUH). Should we accept it? The need is to understand that Quran is the primary source and hadith is secondary. We have to go to Quran first and then hadith. If we will try to reverse the order then our discussions will never end.....

Edited by truthseeker08
Link to post
Share on other sites
  • Advanced Member

You people give references from Sahih bukhari and muslim but don't give its underlined sharah(explanation) which makes it half truth and the other half remains hidden. Just like every verse of Quran needs explanation, so is necessary for every hadith. What i m trying to say is that what is understood needs not to be mentioned, thats why the hadith does not include the wives of prophet (pbuh) because it is clearly mentioned by Allah in the ayat(so it is not mentioned in hadith). The confusion was whether the other pious personalities were included or not, so prophet cleared this misunderstanding.

I can give u lot of references from other hadiths which include that this ayah was only about the wives of prophet(PBUH). Should we accept it? The need is to understand that Quran is the primary source and hadith is secondary. We have to go to Quran first and then hadith. If we will try to reverse the order then our discussions will never end.....

Sahihs are sahih but when they say something that establishes Shia perspective the hadith becomes ghareeb or weak. Bukhari, et al refuses to quote from people wiht shia leanings but quotes with ease from nasibis with hatred for Ali and Ahlul Bayt.

Sunnis are the most amazing contortionist. They twist words around and have explanation for every verse which is always in such cases exact opposite of what is written in the hadith.

The purity is for panjatan alone and this verse is for Panjatan alone. PLease feel free to throw your twisted interpretations and watch them burn and die out

Link to post
Share on other sites
  • Basic Members

Sahihs are sahih but when they say something that establishes Shia perspective the hadith becomes ghareeb or weak. Bukhari, et al refuses to quote from people wiht shia leanings but quotes with ease from nasibis with hatred for Ali and Ahlul Bayt.

Sunnis are the most amazing contortionist. They twist words around and have explanation for every verse which is always in such cases exact opposite of what is written in the hadith.

The purity is for panjatan alone and this verse is for Panjatan alone. PLease feel free to throw your twisted interpretations and watch them burn and die out

Oh brother! Why are you getting so rude. I did not say anything out of respect for u or shia brothers,why r u doing so? Pointing finger towards anyone and sending curse and abusing is really very easy and attractive as well, but it is not a proper way to talk to your Muslim brothers or sisters.

By the way I did not say that the hadith discussed above was weak or gharib. I know sahi hadith is sahi, Iwas just pointing your attention towards the underline explanation of the hadith. 'Sahih is sahih', in fact u need to understand this fact because u people call sahi bukhari and muslim as a pile of rubbish, hand written etc etc.But at the same time u like to give references from it and then call the books'sahih', so its really contradictory.

And let me clear one thing:except a small fraction of people, a large number of sunnih Muslims love and respect alhay bait. But the question is what is the criteria for the love of alhlay bait in shia perspective?

a) Is it to abuse and curse the great sahaba and the holy wives of the prophet (pbuh)?

B) Is it limited to impure the heart and tongue with hatred, prejudice and grudge for all others except ahle bait?

c) Is it to infer your own meaning of Holy Quran and to refute the 'ijma' of the ummah?

d) Is it to make fun of the intellect of 85 % Muslim scholar and to accept 15% scholar views as'hujjat" and error free interpretation?

e) Is it to disassociate yourself from those shia scholars who dare to agree with sunni perspective in some matters?

The list is never ending but I would like to go now for what love and adherence with any holy personality requires from us: the love demands to follow the character of your beloved personality and to lead your life by following their life style.

There is no denying the fact that the lives of Panjtan Pak was exemplary. They used to stay in prayers whole night and spend their days in the service of humanity. They were chosen people by Allah but still they used to offer farz and nafil ibadat and reciting Quran to please their Almighty Allah. Their hearts were pure, without any hatred,prejudice and grudge for anyone.

Now see what we, the so-called adherent of these pious personalities are doing. Most of us don't forget to abuse a fellow Muslim but we often forget to offer regular prayers (or we carry on both these works, I don't know how?) We love those personalities but don't love what they loved to read whole nights i.e. Holy Quran.

Our hearts are filled with hatred, prejudice and grudge.

We are unable to understand a simple fact and that is: Whatever be the reason, Hadrat Ali (radi Allah anhu)took bait from abu bakr, umar and uthman (radi Allah anhum) and settled the issue finally, but we are fighting over it for centuries. Isn't it absurd?

Hadrat Ali(radi Allah anhu)gave the name Abu bakr to his son (shia reference: jalalul uyoon) but shia brothers dislike this name and don't like it for their kids.

The grandmother of Imam Jafaro sadiq (Radi Allah anhu) Hadrat Isma was the grand daughter of Abu bakr(radi Allahanhu) (usool e kafi-shia reference) but you still question the merit of Abubakr(RA).

There are lots and lots of examples but I know u r not interested…

You know what? The four pious caliphs must be enjoying each other's company in paradise inshAllah, but we will fight with each other till our last breath….it is really pathetic.

I don't intend to hurt anyone's feelings, but if I did so then I apologize.

May Allah guide us all towards the right path…Ameen

Link to post
Share on other sites
  • 4 months later...
  • Basic Members

Sahih Muslim Hadith Number 5955.

------------------------------

'Aisha reported that Allah's Apostle (may peace be upon him) went out one morning wearing a striped cloak of the black camel's hair that there came Hasan b. 'Ali. He wrapped him under it, then came Husain and he wrapped him under it along with the other one (Hasan). Then came Fatima and he took her under it, then came 'Ali and he also took him under it and then said: Allah only desires to take away any un-cleanliness from you, O people of the household, and purify you (thorough purifying)....

Link to post
Share on other sites
  • Basic Members

Assalaam Brother.

I am trying to right few replies to you... Dont wish to hurt any one's feelings..

Let me try to put them into points.

Quran says about munafekins (Hypocrates).....

So now if quran is talking about hypocrates then all the sahabas are bilievers and none is hypocrate is a question.

2ndly 85% of muslim aalemaas you are talking .. In the world 85% are christians... so is a number of followers any day a criteria....

Also one famous hadith which all the sects agree is that there will be only one saved sect from all the muslim sects...

Also

Sahih Muslim Hadith Number 5955.

------------------------------

'Aisha reported that Allah's Apostle (may peace be upon him) went out one morning wearing a striped cloak of the black camel's hair that there came Hasan b. 'Ali. He wrapped him under it, then came Husain and he wrapped him under it along with the other one (Hasan). Then came Fatima and he took her under it, then came 'Ali and he also took him under it and then said: Allah only desires to take away any un-cleanliness from you, O people of the household, and purify you (thorough purifying)....

This is from sahih muslim telling that this aayat is for ahlul bait...

If you agree this so atleast we both come to a point that Imaam ali a.s is away from sins and cannot lie and cannot kill innocent people...

Do u know islamic history. Ummul momeninn Ayesha fought a battle with imaam ali a.s (Jange jamal) and many died.. Know do ummul momeneen love imaam ali a.s who is infallable by quran....

if she loves why she fought a battle and who is responsible for people who died form both the sides....

and if you say that u love imaam ali a.s Can you also love his enemies and such enemies who came to fight a battle.

Also can you love mauwaayia who faught jange a siffin with ali a.s

Who are those hypocrates amongst the sahabis which quran is mentioning ???

..

ayate mawaadat -- In that quran says to rasul to tell people to love his near relatives.. and these near relatives by all the sources are proved that they are panjatan.....

..

Also hazrat abu bakar didnot hurt janaabe zehara s.a by not giving the land which she asked her right... Again can janaabe zehraa s.a be wrong or can she lie when quran itself says about her being pure...from aaye tatheer....Now dont you doubt the injustice done by hazrat abu bakar ?

Rasul e khuda sa. in number of places forced people to write a will and can he pass away from this world wiht out wrting a will ? CAn a prophet not do something what he has always been preaching for???

Didnot rasul khuda a.s said that i m leaving behind two weighty things , one is quran and another is ahlul bait.... if you leave any one of them you would go astray....

By having a battle with ali a.s Didnot mawaaya and hazrat aayesha leave ali a.s , infact they fought a battle ..... ? still are they worthy of being called as bilievers?

Now brother many places you have talked aobut relationships... Do not u know the son of prophet Noah's a.s was killed in the punishment.. Has relation been ever a critera of poiusity or being a believer...

Who are those hypocrates who are mentioned in quran.. remember it is munafekin not mushrekin.....

Doesnot quran say that u will not find change in the method of Allah.. Doesnt Allah appoint harun a.s as moosa's a.s .vazir

and again doesnt sahih bhukarh and sahih muslim says that "o ali you are to me what harun was to moosa"

And agin how was hazrat abu bakar bcame the first caliph when ali a.s was busy ath the time of rasul khuda s.a ... Why ali a.s was not present when hazrat abu bakar was elected?

is election by the people method of Allah ever ? and if it is at all , we never agree to it thought but if at all then why it was not followed for the reamining successors like hazrat umar was not elected but was selected by hazrat abu bakar and hazrar usman was neihter elected nor selcted but was chosen by a commiteed called surah....

Also to conclude...

One more aayat of quran quoting here is

"Allah is your wali, rasul a.s is your wali and he who gives zakat while bowing is your wali.. (haalat ruku mein zakaat denaa)

Strangely when i was refereeing few sunni tafseers i foud one correctly agreeing shia tafseers that this aayat is for hazrat ali a.s.. That hazrat ali a.s giave zakat while he was in ruku...

But one sunni tafseer syas tht it was for hazrat abu bakar

Does anything strike you brother ?

If it was for hazrat abu bakar , then why he didnot claim it bcoz this ayaat came at the time of prophet a.s and why they needed to election...........????

MAy Allah guide the non guided muslims and keep them on guidance till death to the guided muslims aameenn

MAy Allah gu

Link to post
Share on other sites
  • 10 months later...
  • Basic Members

033.028 O Prophet! say to your wives: If you desire this world's life and its adornment, then come, I will give you a provision and allow you to depart a goodly departing

Nabi (pbuh) being addressed right?

033.029

And if you desire Allah and His Messenger and the latter abode, then surely Allah has prepared for the doers of good among you a mighty reward.

033.030

O wives of the prophet! whoever of you commits an open indecency, the punishment shall be increased to her doubly; and this IS easy to Allah.

033.031

And whoever of you is obedient to Allah and His Messenger and does good, We will give to her her reward doubly, and We have prepared for her an honorable sustenance.

033.032

O wives of the Prophet! you are not like any other of the women; If you will be on your guard, then be not soft in (your) speech, lest he in whose heart is a disease yearn; and speak a good word.

033.033

And stay in your houses and do not display your finery like the displaying of the ignorance of yore; and keep up prayer, and pay the poor-rate, and obey Allah and His Messenger. Allah only desires to keep away the uncleanness from you, O people of the House! and to purify you a (thorough) purifying.

So addresses Mohammad (pbuh) again in last line of 33:33 along with his family, how is off-topic?

Isn't before discussing their duty due to being wives of Mohammad (pbuh), isn't it really about him, isn't wanting God and his Messenger about his reality, and "obey God and his Messenger" about his Wilayah, again so mentioning those who share with him in that right and position and authority, in mist of that, what's off-topic, what's not to do with 33:6. After they are the Ulil-Arham in 33:6, who too have more right over the believers then themselves.

O wives of the prophet! whoever of you commits an open indecency, the punishment shall be increased to her doubly; and this IS easy to Allah.

this verse by Allah addressed to only the wives, opens a door of expectation of a sin by the wives who will not obey the said orders..as we can see that reward and punishment are both mentioned which confirm that the wives will act upon this verse according to their capacity of obediance because if Allah himself leads their way of submission then the question of punishment would not be there...learning this we assume that the wives will have to act upon the verse according to thier capacity of obeying Allah, which confirms that it can be fullfilled as completly as well as partially , and the rewards will be accordingly...and this expectation of disobediance aparts the wives from being purified..but further when Allah talks of the purification, which he intend to do himself, should not leave any expectations of a committed sin by the ones who were purified..coz if it happened, the lack of submission of the obeyers in doing so has to be blamed towards Allah himself coz it creates a feeling of awe that mazallah, Allah was not succesfull in purifying them, thats y they committed a sin, which is impossible.

there fore the warning of increased punishment has only been mentioned for wives and not for rasool Allah himself or the purified ones because a sin is not expected from them...because masoomeen donot behave according to their capacity of obidiance but according to what Allah desires.

have u ever seen a verse of Allah communicated to rasool Allah that(mazallah) o rasol, if u commit a sin ur punishment will be increased...?? it is not because such an act is not expected from rasool as he has been purified by Allah himself and does not behaves according to his own capacity of wisdom but according to what Allah desires...

and jamal was no doubt a sin

Link to post
Share on other sites

Whoever tries to understand this verse should first understand the difference between Ahl ul-Bayt and Ahl ul-Bayt at-Tahireen. The first is a generally family, and inclusion in it is based on contractual and biological ties. The second is a spiritual family, and inclusion in it is based on spiritual ties. Sayeda A'isha is part of Ahl ul-Bayt because she is the Prophet's wife, but the Verse of Light isn't referring to this Ahl ul-Bayt. It is referring to Ahl ul-Bayt at-Tahireen, as the grammatical analyses confirm, and Sayeda Fatima is part of the Spiritual Family because she has a similar relationship with Allah 'azza wa jal as the Prophet. In light of all this, the fact that Allah has kept the spiritual families of each Prophet, to my knowledge, within their biological families is inconsequential. In fact, a closer analysis of this would even reinforce our point about the fallacy of assuming that all the Companions were just.

By the way, there are very few Sunni scholars who accepted that the Verse of Light shows that the four in addition to the Prophet are ma'soom. However, plenty have said that it does mean they are mahfuz. I think there is a slight difference between the two terms, but the other understanding shows that the Shi'ite understanding isn't far off, even by the standards of some Sunni scholars.

Edited by al-Irshad
Link to post
Share on other sites
  • 10 years later...
  • Advanced Member
On 9/17/2009 at 9:07 AM, truthseeker08 said:

 implies the wives of the Holy Prophet (upon whom be Allah's peace and blessings as well as his his family), because the address begins with: "O wives of the Prophet," and they are the addressees in the whole discourse preceding it as well as following it. 

No the verse after it does not mention wives specifically. Even if you want to argue it is still addressing them, the topic is completely different from staying home and is about remembering the Quran and Hikma (wisdom).

وَٱذْكُرْنَ مَا يُتْلَىٰ فِى بُيُوتِكُنَّ مِنْ ءَايَـٰتِ ٱللَّهِ وَٱلْحِكْمَةِ ۚ إِنَّ ٱللَّهَ كَانَ لَطِيفًا خَبِيرًا

And keep to mind what is recited in your houses of the communications of Allah and the wisdom; surely Allah is Knower of subtleties, Aware. (shakir)

[Surah 33 verse 34]

The wives are not addressed for another 20 verses afterword's even then they are not directly addressed. 

Link to post
Share on other sites
  • Advanced Member
On 5/14/2021 at 6:27 PM, TryHard said:

No the verse after it does not mention wives specifically. Even if you want to argue it is still addressing them, the topic is completely different from staying home and is about remembering the Quran and Hikma (wisdom).

Your point doesn't have an iota of weight brother. 

Can you please let us know whom the words وَٱذْكُرْنَ &  بُيُوتِكُنَّ pointing to, if not the wives? 

 

Link to post
Share on other sites
Guest Psychological Warfare

يَا أَيُّهَا النَّبِيُّ قُلْ لِأَزْوَاجِكَ إِنْ كُنْتُنَّ تُرِدْنَ الْحَيَاةَ الدُّنْيَا وَزِينَتَهَا فَتَعَالَيْنَ أُمَتِّعْكُنَّ وَأُسَرِّحْكُنَّ سَرَاحًا جَمِيلًا {28}

[Pickthal 33:28] O Prophet! Say unto thy wives: If ye desire the world's life and its adornment, come! I will content you and will release you with a fair release.

وَإِنْ كُنْتُنَّ تُرِدْنَ اللَّهَ وَرَسُولَهُ وَالدَّارَ الْآخِرَةَ فَإِنَّ اللَّهَ أَعَدَّ لِلْمُحْسِنَاتِ مِنْكُنَّ أَجْرًا عَظِيمًا {29}

[Pickthal 33:29] But if ye desire Allah and His messenger and the abode of the Hereafter, then lo! Allah hath prepared for the good among you an immense reward.

يَا نِسَاءَ النَّبِيِّ مَنْ يَأْتِ مِنْكُنَّ بِفَاحِشَةٍ مُبَيِّنَةٍ يُضَاعَفْ لَهَا الْعَذَابُ ضِعْفَيْنِ ۚ وَكَانَ ذَٰلِكَ عَلَى اللَّهِ يَسِيرًا {30}

[Pickthal 33:30] O ye wives of the Prophet! Whosoever of you committeth manifest lewdness, the punishment for her will be doubled, and that is easy for Allah.

وَمَنْ يَقْنُتْ مِنْكُنَّ لِلَّهِ وَرَسُولِهِ وَتَعْمَلْ صَالِحًا نُؤْتِهَا أَجْرَهَا مَرَّتَيْنِ وَأَعْتَدْنَا لَهَا رِزْقًا كَرِيمًا {31}

[Pickthal 33:31] And whosoever of you is submissive unto Allah and His messenger and doeth right, We shall give her her reward twice over, and We have prepared for her a rich provision.

يَا نِسَاءَ النَّبِيِّ لَسْتُنَّ كَأَحَدٍ مِنَ النِّسَاءِ ۚ إِنِ اتَّقَيْتُنَّ فَلَا تَخْضَعْنَ بِالْقَوْلِ فَيَطْمَعَ الَّذِي فِي قَلْبِهِ مَرَضٌ وَقُلْنَ قَوْلًا مَعْرُوفًا {32}

[Pickthal 33:32] O ye wives of the Prophet! Ye are not like any other women. If ye keep your duty (to Allah), then be not soft of speech, lest he in whose heart is a disease aspire (to you), but utter customary speech.

وَقَرْنَ فِي بُيُوتِكُنَّ وَلَا تَبَرَّجْنَ تَبَرُّجَ الْجَاهِلِيَّةِ الْأُولَىٰ ۖ وَأَقِمْنَ الصَّلَاةَ وَآتِينَ الزَّكَاةَ وَأَطِعْنَ اللَّهَ وَرَسُولَهُ ۚ إِنَّمَا يُرِيدُ اللَّهُ لِيُذْهِبَ عَنْكُمُ الرِّجْسَ أَهْلَ الْبَيْتِ وَيُطَهِّرَكُمْ تَطْهِيرًا {33}

[Pickthal 33:33] And stay in your houses. Bedizen not yourselves with the bedizenment of the Time of Ignorance. Be regular in prayer, and pay the poor-due, and obey Allah and His messenger. Allah's wish is but to remove uncleanness far from you, O Folk of the Household, and cleanse you with a thorough cleansing.

-----

There is a issue of Punishment and reward in the preceding verses. Kindly, read 33:33 in light of 33:28-29.

Punishment/Reward. ...Keeping You clean....? (REFLECT!)

Link to post
Share on other sites
  • Advanced Member
Posted (edited)
11 hours ago, Cool said:

Your point doesn't have an iota of weight brother. 

Can you please let us know whom the words وَٱذْكُرْنَ &  بُيُوتِكُنَّ pointing to, if not the wives? 

 

fair enough those two words seem to be referring to females though I can't confirm that it is the wives specifically as I have not found Shia tafsir on it. It could be referring to women in general to remember the word of Allah and the prophet (صلى الله عليه وآله وسلم) but allahu a3lam. That is why I said it does not mention the wives specifically. 

In any case the verses after do not mention the wives nor are they referring to them specifically until many verses later. 

The verse before is ayat tattheer and it is clearly referring to males and females with yathihaba ankum ya ahlulbayt wa yutahirukum tatthirat specifically the ahlulbayt (عليه السلام) Fatima (عليه السلام) with the holy prophet (صلى الله عليه وآله وسلم) and Imam Ali (عليه السلام) as well as Imam hassan (عليه السلام) and Imam hussayn (عليه السلام)

Edited by TryHard
Link to post
Share on other sites
  • Advanced Member
Posted (edited)
13 hours ago, TryHard said:

fair enough those two words seem to be referring to females though I can't confirm that it is the wives specifically as I have not found Shia tafsir on it.

Let me present you one:

Quote

وَاذْكُرْنَ مَا يُتْلَىٰ فِي بُيُوتِكُنَّ مِنْ آيَاتِ اللَّهِ وَالْحِكْمَةِ ۚ إِنَّ اللَّهَ كَانَ لَطِيفًا خَبِيرًا {34}

[Shakir 33:34] And keep to mind what is recited in your houses of the communications of Allah and the wisdom; surely Allah is Knower of subtleties, Aware.
[Pickthal 33:34] And bear in mind that which is recited in your houses of the revelations of Allah and wisdom. Lo! Allah is Subtile, Aware.
[Yusufali 33:34] And recite what is rehearsed to you in your homes, of the Signs of Allah and His Wisdom: for Allah understands the finest mysteries and is well-acquainted (with them).
[Pooya/Ali Commentary 33:34]

In this verse the gender (feminine plural) again refers to the wives of the Holy Prophet and to "houses", not to the people of the house (Ahl ul Bayt) of verse 33. The wives of the Holy Prophet are commanded (as an admonition) to pay attention to the teachings of the Quran and the Holy Prophet, the fountain of wisdom, so that they might not go astray as some of them did (see commentary of verses 28 to 32 of this surah.

https://quran.al-islam.org/

Edited by Cool
Link to post
Share on other sites

Join the conversation

You are posting as a guest. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.
Note: Your post will require moderator approval before it will be visible.

Guest
Reply to this topic...

×   Pasted as rich text.   Paste as plain text instead

  Only 75 emoji are allowed.

×   Your link has been automatically embedded.   Display as a link instead

×   Your previous content has been restored.   Clear editor

×   You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL.


×
×
  • Create New...