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In the Name of God بسم الله

Should We Allow Men Without Beard In Hussainiyah?

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There is a debate going on for a while that “women without hijaab should be allowed in Hussainiyah or not?”

After reading responses from people with different perspective, I thought hat it would be interesting to see what brothers & sisters would say on the issue that “would men without beard be allowed in Hussainiyah?” or “would men who have committed adultery or have had a shot or two should be allowed in Hussainiyah?” How about “Should we allow a sinner to be in Hussainiyah?”

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how about "should anyone who isnt as holy as us be allowed in the imambargah"

cos, u know. people that wag fingers never commit any sins at all do they :dry: the level of smug self-riteous arrogance is disgusting on this board sometimes.

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There is a debate going on for a while that “women without hijaab should be allowed in Hussainiyah or not?”

After reading responses from people with different perspective, I thought hat it would be interesting to see what brothers & sisters would say on the issue that “would men without beard be allowed in Hussainiyah?” or “would men who have committed adultery or have had a shot or two should be allowed in Hussainiyah?” How about “Should we allow a sinner to be in Hussainiyah?”

LOL.

You would have to define the word "beard". Do you mean hair on the cheeks? the face? box beard? gotee? line beard?

Please be more specific.

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LOL.

You would have to define the word "beard". Do you mean hair on the cheeks? the face? box beard? gotee? line beard?

Please be more specific.

Whatever is allowed as per Shariah.

Beard's rulings, as per almost every Marjaa, are under Ihtiyaat e Wajib, so brother with gotee are fine too. Agha Khoi and Agha Jawwad Tabraizi allowed it. I dont know who among the recent Marjaas allows it. But anyway, the point is something else.

My transformation tells me a lot about reality of religion. For six years I qadha my salaat (O Allah (SWT), you are greatest, Please forgive me ba haq e Fatima Zehra (Salam Allah Alaiha)), but then I went to Ziarat of Imam e Reza (as) and in Qom ul Muqaddas a religious student brother told me good things which I heard previously thousands of time, but at that time those good words actually played their role. Probably because of the qubooliyat e Ziarat. Then I changed drastically. Never shaved after that day. Seventeen years have gone by, very few salaats have been qadha, and only unintentionally. If that religious student would have thought that “Oh, this man is without beard, why bother telling him a good thing, he already have heard so may majalis/dars/lectures, he should know how much punishment he will receive by disobeying Allah (SWT) etc etc” I would have not be a member of shiachat. I might have a member of love.com or date.com etc (By the way I just made up these sites, brothers are requested to not take them literally for browsing purpose).

My point is that what “love and Husn e Zunn and polity will achieve, nothing else can”. Please don’t look down upon a sister or a brother who is without hijaab or beard. We don’t know they might ask forgiveness in the future with so much repentance that they go to Jannah and we still find ourselves busy with Munkir Nakir.

There would have been few muslims, if Prophet Muhammad (pbuh) would have been strict. It was love which made him (pbuh) the most influential man in the history of mankind (even as per non-muslim writers).

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bro toronto theres an ayat for all these finger pointers, it always makes me laugh

[31.19] And pursue the right course in your going about and lower your voice; surely the most hateful of voices is braying of the asses.

:lol:

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bro toronto theres an ayat for all these finger pointers, it always makes me laugh

[31.19] And pursue the right course in your going about and lower your voice; surely the most hateful of voices is braying of the asses.

:lol:

Jazakallah :) This is a very quotable verse mashallah :) :)

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If sinners were stopped from entering Hyssayniah's, then the whole point of the Hussayniah is bogus.

Dont we go there to learn?

I think even non-Muslims should be allowed in the Hussayniah... if they wish to learn more about Islam and Shi'ism

Edited by sk00n
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i dont think anyone should be turned away from entering a Hussainiyah. but maybe out of respect, they should try to come covered. you may see them as a sinner for not coming in with a beard or hijab, but in Allah swt's view, they may be the best momin.

we should not judge for Allah swt is the ultimate judger.

Edited by YaSiN51214
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We go 2 Hussainiyah 2 rectify ourselves if we have a good look ourselves every morning and started 2 find faults in ourselves kasam Allah we aint going 2 find tym 2 worry about the way other ppl look. Importantly we should be trying 2 purify our soul. We all do things in our own time. I mean growing a beard wearing hijab we all do it when we are ready not when its forced.

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I think a more important question is: should women without beards be allowed into mosques?

If, as some Shiachat posters claim, God is offended by the sight of an uncovered female head, then doesn't it follow that he would also be offended by the sight of a woman who doesn't have a beard?

Perhaps muslims should pattern themselves after the Jews who lived in the time of Jesus, when it was the practice for Jewish women to wear fake beards (as documented in the movie "The Life of Brian"):

life_of_brian_allstar-5468.jpg

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how about "should anyone who isnt as holy as us be allowed in the imambargah"

cos, u know. people that wag fingers never commit any sins at all do they :dry: the level of smug self-riteous arrogance is disgusting on this board sometimes.

Seconded.

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I think a more important question is: should women without beards be allowed into mosques?

If, as some Shiachat posters claim, God is offended by the sight of an uncovered female head, then doesn't it follow that he would also be offended by the sight of a woman who doesn't have a beard?

Are you eloquently hinting that the practice of veil is an act of oppression on women ?

To the Op:

Beard is not compulsory in religion.

Hijab is.....

Sure we don't have to force it upon others by banning women to enter Imam Bargah, but there is nothing wrong in encouraging it.....

Fi-Amanillah

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Are you eloquently hinting that the practice of veil is an act of oppression on women ?

To the Op:

Beard is not compulsory in religion.

Hijab is.....

Sure we don't have to force it upon others by banning women to enter Imam Bargah, but there is nothing wrong in encouraging it.....

Fi-Amanillah

wisest reply in the thread!

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Are you eloquently hinting that the practice of veil is an act of oppression on women ?

To the Op:

Beard is not compulsory in religion.

Hijab is.....

Sure we don't have to force it upon others by banning women to enter Imam Bargah, but there is nothing wrong in encouraging it.....

Fi-Amanillah

As per all every Marjaa, shaving of beard is considered Haraam.

exactly in the same way, a women without Hijaab is committing Haraam.

They both are compulsory/wajib.

As per Agha Khoi, woman has to cover her every part of the body (1) so that it should not be visible to any naa mehram (2) it should not arouse men

Some Ayatullah, eg, Agha Khomeini, allows woman to open her face from the middle part of the forehead to the chin. Because Agha Khoi and Ayatullahs of his thinking puts ihtiyaat e wajib, therefore even their muqalideen can follow the fatawas of Agha Khomeini and Ayatullahs of same thinking.

Edited by Toronto110
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As per all every Marjaa, shaving of beard is considered Haraam.

exactly in the same way, a women without Hijaab is committing Haraam.

They both are compulsory/wajib.

Right, but how do you determine if a man has shaved, or just has no facial hair? Some men don't grow any. On the other hand, any woman can put on a scarf, she doesn't even have to be Muslim or have hair - all she needs is a head and a scarf.

If sinners were stopped from entering Hyssayniah's, then the whole point of the Hussayniah is bogus.

Dont we go there to learn?

I think even non-Muslims should be allowed in the Hussayniah... if they wish to learn more about Islam and Shi'ism

I agree.

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Right, but how do you determine if a man has shaved, or just has no facial hair? Some men don't grow any. On the other hand, any woman can put on a scarf, she doesn't even have to be Muslim or have hair - all she needs is a head and a scarf.

I agree.

One of the most famous hadith in Islam.

“Innamal Aamaal o bin Niayyat”

“translation: the basis of Aamaal is one’s niyah”

If a brother is without facial hairs and he is not cleaning his face with razor etc, then it will not be haraam.

As for sisters who don’t wear hijaab, it is considered haraam. Obviously, Haraam will only be considered by a Muslim. Any other religion’s follower has to do nothing with haraam. Although there are many other religions who require woman to cover her head etc. If that woman will wear a scarf (or a like) she will not go to Jannah as she is a non-beleiver in Allah (SWT) and HIS tawheed.

But a sister in Islam will face Allah’s Wrath while her time in grave. Same goes for the brother in Islam.

We all know that if anyone believes in Allah (SWT) as Creator of everything, Prophet Mohammad (pbuh), Imam Ali (as) and their Ahl e Bayt (as), s/he will ultimately go into Jannah. No question about it. The reason why we are trying to save ourselves from refraining from haraam acts is to keep our sins as low as possible, because they will create hardship for us in the grave.

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Thats ridiculous some men dont grow beards untill a certains age because they are not HAIRY , what are they gonna do dont let them come in.

And you can't grow a beard at anytime it takes time, whereas a skarf can be put on anytime...

And those without hijab should be also be let in, because what about if you had a NoN-muslim who wants to know something about islam and doesnt feel comfortable with wearing a hijab ?? You stop her from being guided???

Secondly we are all sinners, therefore none should be allowed, even the lecturer..

As for Adulters , you must still let them, how are they gonna be inspired again and come back to the straight path?? ..

you leave them out in the cold they will get more cold NOT warmer...

Conclusion dont change anyting ...

Edited by albaqyr
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(salam)

Interesting topic actually which only highlights the hypocrisy of our "men". Hijab is wajib in Islam and it seems our sisters who come to the mosque do respect it in various ways (some strictly and some less) but the men are a disgrace: count the men who come to the mosque without a beard!!! It's of course a different deal for beardless men but for the others there simply is no excuse at all. Again a clear demonstration of male hypocrisy.

kind regards

Bahadur Ali Shah

Edited by Bahadur Ali
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With due respect to the brothers, a bread is meant to reveal a male's "attraction" and the hijab/veil is meant to cover the woman's "attraction". These are two different matters. If a brother doesn't grow a beard, it is totally his affair and has little effect on others. If a woman being uncovered does infact arouse and disturb others, especially males, it does affect others.

Personally, I don't have a beard and I don't see it as a major issue, whether the self-righteous Taliban here call me a sinner or what--it makes no difference and they will never judge or hinder me.

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(salam)

As Shi'a we are to follow our Prophet and Imams (as) as the source of imitation and when in doubt refer to a scholar. It so happens that our Imams (as) have CLEARLY settled the debate about beards.

The following quotes are from this book:

http://al-islam.org/Islamic_perspective_beard/

"In Tafsir al-Qummi, Imam Ja’far al-Sadiq (as) gives an explanation which refers to the exemptions to the rule.

Allah’s words:

“Who is finer in religion than someone who submits himself to Allah while he acts kindly and follows the sect of Abraham, the Upright one? Allah adopted Abraham as a bosom friend”.Chapter 4 (The Women / al-Nisa) Verse 125

The Imam Ja’far al-Sadiq (as) explained that Allah, the Blessed, granted ten things to Abraham (p.b.u.h) (al-Hanif) [things that purify], five were for the head and five were for the body.

Those for the head were:

1. Trimming the moustache

2. Wearing the beard

3. Trimming the hair of the head

4. Brushing the teeth

5. Flossing the teeth

And those for the body were:

1. Circumcision

2. Trimming the nails

3. Cleansing the body with water

4. Shaving the under arm and pubic hair

5. Ceremonial bath (after sexual intercourse etc.)

These ten things which Allah, the Exalted, granted Abraham (p.b.u.h) were similar to what He granted Prophet Adam (p.b.u..h) in the form of the beard.

The important point we should bear in mind here is, that those things which were granted to Abraham (p.b.u.h) and Adam (p.b.u.h) were not abrogated nor will they be abrogated till the day of reckoning.

This verse is evidence of the fact that whatever Allah, the Exalted, granted Abraham (as) remained so for Prophet Muhammad (p.b.u.h) also. This is the reason why we as Muslims still (try to) adhere to the same practices.

On analysing this narration and many more like it, one may find that some of the actions mentioned in one single narration may be categorised as actions that are recommended, while other actions mentioned in the same narration may be categorised as actions which are obligatory. This is only possible when a jurist refers to many other similar narrations, and after his painstaking research, he categorises them accordingly. "

"In the book al-Ja’fariyyat a narration of the Holy Prophet (p.b.u.h) has been quoted in which the Prophet (p.b.u.h) states:

“The shaving of the beard is indeed considered an unjust action, may the curse of Allah befall those who are unjust”.

Thus, if the shaving of the beard is considered an “injustice” and its subject deserving to be cursed by Allah, the Mighty, then this would indeed point to the fact that Allah, the Mighty, is displeased with the person who commits an injustice, so much so that he becomes deserving of His wrath. This would not in any way whatsoever contradict logic. The other fact is that we do not find any verdict, of any jurist which considers an unjust action to be lawful.

Hence, if the shaving of the beard is compared to an action which is unjust, then it is clear that the shaving of the beard, based on the narration of the Holy Prophet (p.b.u.h), is indeed unlawful.

al-Saduq sites a narration of the Holy Prophet (p.b.u.h) in which he states: “Trim your moustaches and let your beards grow and do not emulate the Jews”

This narration is considered authentic by the Shi’ah and the Sunni schools of thought. Based on one of the principles of the science of jurisprudence (Usul al-Fiqh), the indication of a sentence with the imperative construction (al-Amr) usually implies that an action is obligatory and the prohibitive construction (al-Nahy) of a sentence usually implies that an action is unlawful.

This is especially the case when the action in question refers to the emulation of the enemies of Islam, i.e. the Jews and the infidels. Thus, the result which a jurist may derive based on this would be that the shaving of the beard or letting it grow to the extent that the Jews let it grow to, would certainly be considered unlawful and the trimming of the moustache would be considered an action which was recommended[2].

In the book al-Muntaqa the following has been reported: “Chosroe (Kasra the king of Persia) once sent two of his ambassadors to the Holy Prophet (p.b.u.h). When they approached him, he looked at their moustaches and saw that they were very lengthy and they had no beards, thus, he turned to them and said:

“Woe, be to you regarding what you have performed” (i.e. having shaved their beards). They said: “Our master commanded us to do this”, the Holy Prophet (p.b.u.h) then said: “My Master, the Blessed, the Exalted, commanded me to wear my beard and trim my moustache”.

It is clearly understood from this narration that Allah, the Blessed, the Exalted, commanded His Prophet (p.b.u.h) to wear a beard.

Allah, the Mighty, the Wise, mentions the authority of the utterances of His Prophet Muhammad (p.b.u.h) in the Qur’an as:

“Whatever the Messenger gives you, accept it and from whatever he forbids you (from doing) keep back”. Chapter 53 (The Banishment / al-Hashr) Verse 3-4

It is reported in Bihar al-Anwar in the chapter concerning the beard (Kitab al-Mahasin) in which Imam Musa b. Ja’far, al-Kazim (as) was asked: “Is it recommended to wear the beard?” he said: “Yes”, then he was asked: “Is it permissible for one to shave one’s beard?”, Imam (as) replied: “It is permissible to shave the sides of the face where the beard grows, however, to shave the front (chin) is not permissible”[3]. "

The scriptural proof suffices. I wonder why some people think they know better than Ahl ul Bayt (as)...

kind regards

Bahadur Ali Shah

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(salam)

Kya mlng hona haram hai? wrote:

MAM,

Man this is ridiculous. Men without beards are allowed in to the hussainiyah no prob, but women without their head scarves are considered some kind of prostitutes by many.

That is precisely the issue. A woman who doesn't wear hijab is looked at badly whereas men who shave get away with it. It clearly how lany men in our community behave in a hypocritical way. It is a matter of deep shame to see young and old men follow the effeminate custom of shaving and yet claiming to be Shi'a. What kind of Shi'as are they giving into pressure from effeminate modern Western culture or fear of not fitting into Western society so as "not to look like a Taliban". I have no words to describe how it disgusts me. The heart of Shi'ism is javanmardi (chivaly) and the heart of javanmardi is wilaya. Part of the ethos of Shi'ism is for men to behave as knights in service of their Imam and to be virile. Children don't have beards and women don't have beards and yet it is a mystery to see so many "Shi'a men" shave in order to look like a child or a woman. As I have clearly shown in my previous post having a beard is wajib. It's about time we start implementing this in our community. I'd love to see men get stopped in the streets of Tehran for that instead of it just being women with bad hijab. The Islamic Republic stands for equality and justice: if women with bad hijab are to be bothered then men who shave should as well. As much as I think violence against women is disgusting I do think that these men need a few slaps to bring them back to their senses: no you can't call yourself Shi'a and shave like Boy George!!!

kind regards

Bahadur Ali Shah

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In regards to men without beards, Bahadur Ali wrote: I'd love to see men get stopped in the streets of Tehran for that instead of it just being women with bad hijab.

A couple of questions for you.

Q1: do you think non-muslim men in Iran should be forced to grow beards?

Q2: do you think non-muslim women in Iran should be forced to wear hijab?

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In regards to men without beards, Bahadur Ali wrote: I'd love to see men get stopped in the streets of Tehran for that instead of it just being women with bad hijab.

A couple of questions for you.

Q1: do you think non-muslim men in Iran should be forced to grow beards?

Q2: do you think non-muslim women in Iran should be forced to wear hijab?

They are already forced to wear hijab there.

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(salam)

I think there should be justice. If women are imposed a specific dress code then men should also be expected to respect equivalent rules. I do think that men in Iran should be expected to at least wear a goatie and if they work in any governmental position they should be required to have a proper beard. If women in government positions are asked to wear correct hijab then men should also be asked to keep a beard.

As for non-Muslim women, the overwhelming majority of them belong to religions that require women to cover anyway. Regarding the Ahl e Haqq men and their uncut moustaches the IRI has shown great respect for this section of Shi'ism and there are many Ahl e Haqq in the army who keep their mpustaches uncut without this causing any problem. Most of them actually keep a beard (trimmed) or a goatie.

There simply are no excuses.

As for women being "forced" to wear hijab I would like to remind you that the people of Iran voted for an Islamic republic. The country as a whole made a life choice. Hijab in Iran has enabled girls from conservative families to get an education, something that would have been impossible if hijab had just been a personal option implying that rich middle class girls wouldn't wear it thus preventing conservative families to send their daughters to schools where they could catch ill behaviour. Imposing hijab was a necessity and now Iranian women are among the most educated in the world.

kind regards

Bahadur Ali Shah

Allaho Akbar Khomeini Rahbar!

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There is a debate going on for a while that “women without hijaab should be allowed in Hussainiyah or not?”

After reading responses from people with different perspective, I thought hat it would be interesting to see what brothers & sisters would say on the issue that “would men without beard be allowed in Hussainiyah?” or “would men who have committed adultery or have had a shot or two should be allowed in Hussainiyah?” How about “Should we allow a sinner to be in Hussainiyah?”

(salam)

As the stand I have taken there, sohere. Why should anyone be deprived of any chance to be exposed to some "hidayeh"

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Salaam,

While it's evident that Islam generally emphasises both the hijab for women and the beard for men, I don't believe that Islam deems the hijab and the beard to be of equal level of importance, nor do I personally believe they are. A man without a beard is certainly not the same as a woman without a head covering, which by the way conceals the hair as well as the ears and the neck. There is a qualitative difference between the two in terms of the effect of the resulting stimulus on the opposite gender. An effect which depends on the natural and innate differences between the two genders and their response to certain stimuli. I think we should always remember, as Mutahhari [qs] said, that while men and women are equal they are not identical (i.e. in nature; physiology, psychology, etc.) and as such the laws that apply to them may vary qualitatively and quantitatively.

On this basis I think that refusing the non-muhajaba entry into the mosque - unless she temporarily wears the headscarf - does not warrant excluding the non-beared man from entry to the mosque. Again, this is NOT to endorse or give a green light for the clean shave but to acknowledge that the matter is not as black and white and simplistic as some people have viewed it.

Edited by MajiC
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