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FatimehJ

Which Marja Allows Music

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I apologize for initially posting this in the wrong section but still getting used to the site!

(salam)

I would like to know which marja allows music. Obviously I don't mean music that is anti Islamic or encourages bad behaviour, but soothing music or traditional music.

I have heard that some scholars suggest this is ok and would like further information on this.

many thanks

Allah hafez

Fatimeh

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(salam) I think most allow classical and music which would not be included in gatherings of "merrymaking and sin". Here's an answer I got from the office of Imam Khamenei (HA):

Asalaamu alaykum,

There is a Muslim musician named Yusuf Islam (formerly known as Cat Stevens). He produces wonderful Islamic hymns and anasheed. His recent albums can be played in gatherings of amusement, however, they are basically about RasulAllah (sas) and Islam. Is the music of Yusuf Islam permissble to listen to?

Salamun `alaykum wa Rahmatullahi wa Barakatuhu.

The answer is as follows:

Bismihi Ta`ala

If it is in the form of ghina’ or mutrib lahwi music which is suitable for the gatherings of merrymaking and sin, it is impermissible to listen to it.

With prayers for your success,

Webmaster

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(salam) I think most allow classical and music which would not be included in gatherings of "merrymaking and sin". Here's an answer I got from the office of Imam Khamenei (HA):

Asalaamu alaykum,

There is a Muslim musician named Yusuf Islam (formerly known as Cat Stevens). He produces wonderful Islamic hymns and anasheed. His recent albums can be played in gatherings of amusement, however, they are basically about RasulAllah (sas) and Islam. Is the music of Yusuf Islam permissble to listen to?

Salamun `alaykum wa Rahmatullahi wa Barakatuhu.

The answer is as follows:

Bismihi Ta`ala

If it is in the form of ghina’ or mutrib lahwi music which is suitable for the gatherings of merrymaking and sin, it is impermissible to listen to it.

With prayers for your success,

Webmaster

(wasalam)

so by the answer do you understand that Yusef Islam's music is NOT allowed?

Allah hafez

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(salam) ,

Fadlallah, with the answer you received from Agha khamenei, to me it seems like you become the judge and decide whether the music is in the form of ghina or not. I find most of the the marja's in their replies give a very generic answer and at the end you have to make the decision.

What if you made the wrong judgement and listened to music that was intended for merrymaking while you thought it was ok, is that considered a sin?

Personally I still don't understand what kind of music these marjas allow, maybe they should post a sample music on their website lool

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(bismillah)

(salam)

Sister, please don't mind me sharing a small piece of advice. While I appreciate that your question might have various possible motives (maybe its for a research paper, or something else), if this is the method you are using in selecting a marja then I think most would advice against it, because the aim of taqleed is to follow the one you feel (or are advised) is most qualified, rather than the one who suits your situation the best.

What if you made the wrong judgement and listened to music that was intended for merrymaking while you thought it was ok, is that considered a sin?

Not something for me to judge, but as a precaution I would avoid listening to something if it isn't clearly halal.

At the end of the day, halal and haram aside, sometimes we should question the importance/benefit of such things. I think the aim of the follower of the Ahlulbayt should be beyond halal and haram, and rather to reach levels of piety and purity that justify the adherence to the Shia school of thought.

Types of Taqwa According to Allama Majlisi:

According to Allama Majlisi (r.a.) there are four types of ‘Taqwa’ :

1. “Wara at-Ta’bīri”, which means to abstain from the prohibited things.

2. “Wara as-Salihīn”, to abstain from doubtful things so that one may not commit a Harām act.

3. “Wara al-Muttaqīn”, to abstain from permissible things so that one is absolutely protected from ‘Harām’.

4. “Wara as-Sādiqīn”, to avoid everything that is not religious so that one may not waste precious time in useless acts, even though there may not be any risk of committing a sin.

Taken from Greater Sins by Ayatullah Dastaghaib Shirazi

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(wasalam)

so by the answer do you understand that Yusef Islam's music is NOT allowed?

Allah hafez

(salam) I think the Ulema sort of leave that part up to us to interpret what is included in such musical categories because I don't think scholars would sit there and listen to the music to judge for themselves, it is not proper nor efficient. By the answer of Imam Khamenei(HA), I understand it to mean that Yusuf Islam's music is allowed. Why? His music is not suitable for gatherings of sin and they don't incite a person to commit haraam. Rather they encourage me to become closer to Allah and appreciate His bounties. If you go to Yusuf Islam's website, it's interesting... He says that people have written to him telling him that his music/anasheed has prevented them from committing suicide (Audhubillah)! Allah knows best.

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(bismillah)

(salam)

Sister, please don't mind me sharing a small piece of advice. While I appreciate that your question might have various possible motives (maybe its for a research paper, or something else), if this is the method you are using in selecting a marja then I think most would advice against it, because the aim of taqleed is to follow the one you feel (or are advised) is most qualified, rather than the one who suits your situation the best.

Not something for me to judge, but as a precaution I would avoid listening to something if it isn't clearly halal.

At the end of the day, halal and haram aside, sometimes we should question the importance/benefit of such things. I think the aim of the follower of the Ahlulbayt should be beyond halal and haram, and rather to reach levels of piety and purity that justify the adherence to the Shia school of thought.

Types of Taqwa According to Allama Majlisi:

Taken from Greater Sins by Ayatullah Dastaghaib Shirazi

(wasalam)

If it seems it is necessary to follow a marja then I need to make some initial inquiries. As the topic of music is hotly debated I thought it a good place to start as it might indicate the attitude of a marja I thought. Personally I think music can be very spiritual and used to bring a person closer to Allah so it is in fact a very important issue for me. If I then select a marja that is totally opposed to music in its entirety - then this would not make sense. this is really why I asked the question.

Thank you for taking the trouble to reply

Allah hafez

Fatimeh

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(wasalam)

If it seems it is necessary to follow a marja then I need to make some initial inquiries. As the topic of music is hotly debated I thought it a good place to start as it might indicate the attitude of a marja I thought. Personally I think music can be very spiritual and used to bring a person closer to Allah so it is in fact a very important issue for me. If I then select a marja that is totally opposed to music in its entirety - then this would not make sense. this is really why I asked the question.

Thank you for taking the trouble to reply

Allah hafez

Fatimeh

Sister, the Marj'a you chose should be the one that you believe to be most knowledgable. Other than the usool-el-deen (Tawheed, Adl, Nubawah, Imamah, Ma'aath which you must understand through your own research) you need a Marj'a as a guide on issues of Fiqh and Jurisprudence; you must then follow the rulings of the Marj'a you choose. It is most certainly a neccessity rather than an optional choice. Look at the differences between the Maraji3, but be careful not to let your decision be influenced by a Marj'a who makes music permissible. Living in the UK I will not deny that I do not always close my ears to music when I hear it, but most scholars say music is not permissible because of its effects to revel in your mind, a form of escapism.

I refer to (as I have in a previous post) the lecture by Sayyid Ammar Nakhshwani about why we are much better off without music: http://www.cyconline.co.uk/lectures/naksha...50_nak_lec.html (Lecture 25 - Examining Music in islam)

May Allah (swt) guide us all to Al-Siraat Al-Mustakeem

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IMO i think music could be used as a tool of da'wa. my country is very apreciated if someone religious spread their knowledge of islam via music. and anything regarding relaxing ur mind and many can be permitted. i found some marja who allows this and unfortunately i doesn't remember nor save his website in my bookmark

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(salam)

There is no need to make our own opinions about this topic when we have our scholars. And al 7amdulillah in the school of Ahlul Bayt (as) we don't make our own fiqh.

The rules of music have been clearly laid down.

Please check http://www.sistani.org/local.php?modules=n...53&pid=2808 very carefully.

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Pay close attention to the "if" statements in fatwas.

Ayt. Sistani says classical, some folk, and Islamic hymns are allowed, so long as they don't consist of ghina (I'm still unsure what is ghina) or lead one away from Islam. I am also unsure what is a gathering of amusement. A classical concert is a gathering, and I don't know why anyone would go except for amusement, but classical music is allowed. I believe "gathering of amusement" should more accurately be stated as "gathering of debauchery".

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If I am not mistaken, the type of music that is haram is the music that promotes "debauchery", and any such music of that type (even if the actual music does not promote debauchery).

The best analogy I can think of is:

- Just as alcohol is forbidden, visiting the places where alcohol is drunk (pubs) is also forbidden.

- Just as gambling is forbidden, so is using the tools of the gamblers - even if you do not use it for gambling.

This is my understanding of the situation.

EDIT: Confirmed:

The expression “the music or the song that is suitable for entertainment and amusement gatherings†does not mean that the music or the song’s tune amuses the heart or changes the mental state because there is nothing wrong in it. The expression actually means that the person listening to the music or the song’s tune —especially if he is an expert in these matters— can distinguish that this tune is used in the entertainment and amusement gatherings or that it is similar to the tunes used therein. (See the question-answer section below.)

http://sistani.org/local.php?modules=nav&a...53&pid=2808

Edited by The Persian Shah

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I am not following any maja but my believe is that music is the strongest weapon of Shaytan.

Music would lose your conentration and devotion toward Maarfat e Ilahi.

Music would waste your mind creativity and broad thinking.

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There are two marjas who do not use this traditional criteria of ghina (which is to do with the form of the music as ghina is a specific type of singing) and suitability for gatherings: Ayatullah Yusuf Saanei and Ayatullah Fadlallah. Ayatullah Saanei says explicitly that you should judge music according to its content only,the form is irrelevant. In my understanding, Ayatullah Fadlallah's fatwa comes very close to this although he does not say it as explicitly as Ayatullah Saanei. Look at their websites for the fatawa.

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In addition, according to the late Imam Khomeini [QS] and Ayatullah Mutahhari [QS], the thing that destroys your willpower the most, is music.

This might have been a contextual statement. In the context of Iranian Revolution, popular Western music certainly broke anti-Western sentiments which were needed at the time. In other contexts, many types of music can actually boost your willpower.

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This might have been a contextual statement. In the context of Iranian Revolution, popular Western music certainly broke anti-Western sentiments which were needed at the time. In other contexts, many types of music can actually boost your willpower.

By music, I meant the music that is haram -_- Although, my bad, as I wasn't explicit enough..

Indeed, there is a lot of types of music, with various consequent effects. In one place where Ayatullah Mutahhari [QS] speaks of music, he speaks of the "music of the Qur'an", and the effects it produces on the heart, as opposed to other types of music, and it's effects..

There are two marjas who do not use this traditional criteria of ghina (which is to do with the form of the music as ghina is a specific type of singing) and suitability for gatherings: Ayatullah Yusuf Saanei and Ayatullah Fadlallah. Ayatullah Saanei says explicitly that you should judge music according to its content only,the form is irrelevant. In my understanding, Ayatullah Fadlallah's fatwa comes very close to this although he does not say it as explicitly as Ayatullah Saanei. Look at their websites for the fatawa.

Interesting. Yet another fatwa by the "liberals" which opposes he ijma'. With all due respect, Saanei, Fadhlallah & Jannati - these three are known as the "liberal Ayatullahs", who are reputed for they "liberal" edicts. For example, Fadhlallah allows the use of pornography, under some circumstances, whereas it is haram mutlaqan (absolutely forbidden) amongst all other scholars.

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Interesting. Yet another fatwa by the "liberals" which opposes he ijma'. With all due respect, Saanei, Fadhlallah & Jannati - these three are known as the "liberal Ayatullahs", who are reputed for they "liberal" edicts. For example, Fadhlallah allows the use of pornography, under some circumstances, whereas it is haram mutlaqan (absolutely forbidden) amongst all other scholars.

With all due respect, one of the three you mentioned here is my marja, so I care deeply about his verdicts.

All due respect, of course.

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With all due respect, one of the three you mentioned here is my marja, so I care deeply about his verdicts.

All due respect, of course.

Of course. Although I don't think I said anything bad. Just highlighted on the fact that they differ in both methodology and conclusions with all the other Marja's. With all due respect of course :P

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Interesting. Yet another fatwa by the "liberals" which opposes he ijma'. With all due respect, Saanei, Fadhlallah & Jannati - these three are known as the "liberal Ayatullahs", who are reputed for they "liberal" edicts. For example, Fadhlallah allows the use of pornography, under some circumstances, whereas it is haram mutlaqan (absolutely forbidden) amongst all other scholars.

It is their right as scholars to have their own methodologies, thats what research and scholarship is all about, walking in the footsteps of previous scholars or conforming to majority opinion is not a priority in research and scholarship (it might be a priority politically for example, to keep the masses unified but thats a different story). And if the outcome of those methodologies seems 'liberal' then so be it. I dont think you are suggesting that its actually the goal of these scholars to make the religion more loose? I mean its not like in their ijtihad right next to the principles of bara'a or ihtiyat they have the principle of liberalism. And anyway, why do we usualy think that if something is not harsh or rigid then its somehow less Islamic?

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It is their right as scholars to have their own methodologies, thats what research and scholarship is all about, walking in the footsteps of previous scholars or conforming to majority opinion is not a priority in research and scholarship (it might be a priority politically for example, to keep the masses unified but thats a different story). And if the outcome of those methodologies seems 'liberal' then so be it. I dont think you are suggesting that its actually the goal of these scholars to make the religion more loose? I mean its not like in their ijtihad right next to the principles of bara'a or ihtiyat they have the principle of liberalism.

From the scores of threads on this issue on this very forum, and the from the people that have met him, Ayatullah Fadhlullah's [HA] methodology is to place his own views above that of some ahadeeth. Compare this to Ayatullah Khoei [QS], who would even rank a weak hadeeth above his own opinnion. Now take into account what happens if your opinnion is tainted with the love of Sunni/Shia Unity. Just read Hadeeth-e Thaqalayn, to know that your opinnion dose not count for anything.

And anyway, why do we usualy think that if something is not harsh or rigid then its somehow less Islamic?

That is not the issue. The issue is that some of his fatwa's opposes all other sources (ahadeeth, Qur'an, mantiq, ijma, etc), and he doesn't even explain his reasoning in some cases. If someone goes agaisn't all these, then you ask for their reasons. If no reason is given, then rational dictates that you reject the notion.

Tell me, if it was to be said that Praying 5 times a day is "too much", and you now only have to pray once a day, would you accept it immediately ? Because it is more "liberal" ? Because it favours you're own idea of "Islam" better ?

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I am not really aware of any Fadlallah's ruling, or any other marja's ruling for that matter, that would directly oppose the Qur'an. As for ahadith, i am also not aware of any marja believing a hadith to be sahih and hujja (authoritative) but ignoring that hadith because of his personal 'opinion' without any basis. They might believe, based on their examination of isnad and matn, that a hadith believed to be authentic by most other people is not strong or authoritative enough or maybe they are not convinced of the authoritativenes of a khabar al wahid (solitary narration) while others believe it to be authoritative,or he can have an interpretation of a hadith different form other scholars' interpretation, etc. - again, thats what research is all about, as a scholar it is your prerogative to develop your methodology of research. Please provide an example of Ayatullah Fadlallah giving a ruling contradictory to the Qur'an or to a hadith that he himself believes to be strong or to mantiq. It would be interesting to see where this supposed contradiction lies.

As for explaining the reasoning, Im sure his students are aware of it as it is only them who have a real insight into his methodology, similarly to all other marjas. A marja publishes a risala for everyone to see which includes only the masala (ruling) and some of them also write an istidlali book (explaining the basis for the rulings) which is only really available to study for hawzah students. Personally I dont think I have ever seen a clear and complete explanation of the basis and the methodology behind any marjas rulings apart from one istidlali book that I have studied.

And your last remark completely missed the point - first of all it is exactly what Im trying to show; that no marja, including the three so called liberal ones, issues verdicts with the aim of these verdicts being liberal and none of them includes a rule stating 'i will make my rulings as liberal as i can' in their methodologies. They just have a unique methodology of usul al fiqh, to which they are entitled to as scholars and if the outcome of this methodology seems 'liberal' then so be it, who says Islamic rulings must be radical and strict and if theyre not then they are liberal and thus somehow less Islamic. And the 5 time a day salat example is a false analogy and ilustrates nicely why qiyas (analogy) is generally not accepted by Shia scholars. In order for your analogy to be valid you would have to provide us with a ruling by Ayatullah Fadlallah, Saanei or Jannati stating that something that was made explicitly wajib in the Qur'an is not wajib based on the principle that the Qur'an is too strict for us and we have to apply liberalism instead of the Qur'an. You are accusing three Ayatullahs of a very serious thing dear brother, you better have evidence to back it up.

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As for ahadith, i am also not aware of any marja believing a hadith to be sahih and hujja (authoritative) but ignoring that hadith because of his personal 'opinion' without any basis.

http://www.shiachat.com/forum/index.php?sh...36835&st=25

Read Brother Abbas's post in the start of the thread. There are many other such ahadeeth cases also, dotted around this forum.

I am not really aware of any Fadlallah's ruling, or any other marja's ruling for that matter, that would directly oppose the Qur'an.

http://www.shiachat.com/forum/index.php?sh...36835&st=25

Read on the pornography issue, or Wilayah-e Takweenya.

Actually, with regards to the pornography issue, I am interested in your view of it, in light of Ayah 33:52

As for explaining the reasoning, Im sure his students are aware of it as it is only them who have a real insight into his methodology, similarly to all other marjas. A marja publishes a risala for everyone to see which includes only the masala (ruling) and some of them also write an istidlali book (explaining the basis for the rulings) which is only really available to study for hawzah students. Personally I dont think I have ever seen a clear and complete explanation of the basis and the methodology behind any marjas rulings apart from one istidlali book that I have studied.

Interesting, I did not know about these istidlali's. Thanks for telling me. In light of this, it would be inappropiate to continue this discussion, until I have obtanied a copy of Fadlullah's one. Only then can we know what his methodology is exactly, and whether it is opinnion-based or not.

And your last remark completely missed the point - first of all it is exactly what Im trying to show; that no marja, including the three so called liberal ones, issues verdicts with the aim of these verdicts being liberal and none of them includes a rule stating 'i will make my rulings as liberal as i can' in their methodologies. They just have a unique methodology of usul al fiqh, to which they are entitled to as scholars and if the outcome of this methodology seems 'liberal' then so be it, who says Islamic rulings must be radical and strict and if theyre not then they are liberal and thus somehow less Islamic. And the 5 time a day salat example is a false analogy and ilustrates nicely why qiyas (analogy) is generally not accepted by Shia scholars. In order for your analogy to be valid you would have to provide us with a ruling by Ayatullah Fadlallah, Saanei or Jannati stating that something that was made explicitly wajib in the Qur'an is not wajib based on the principle that the Qur'an is too strict for us and we have to apply liberalism instead of the Qur'an. You are accusing three Ayatullahs of a very serious thing dear brother, you better have evidence to back it up.

[a] Actually, that's exactly what the problem is. The fact that liberalism lies in _many_ of their fatwa's. Music, Porn, Beard, Sunni's, etc, etc. Had there been only a few such cases, there would be no problem. Hence, this impies that the issue lies within the methodology, rather than individual fatwa cases.

"who says Islamic rulings must be radical and strict and if theyre not then they are liberal and thus somehow less Islamic"

Brother, you completely ignored what I said. I do not reject some of his fatwa's on the basis that they are "liberal". In my first post, I merely stated that some people call them such, as the majority of their fatwa's reflect that. In fact, I didn't even say I called them that. Even after clarification that I said I reject them because they do not conform with any other valid sources and I am unaware of his reasons, and not due to "liberalism", you still repeated this statement.

Just to note, rather than just defending the personality, if you actually have any information on his methodology or reasons for any fatwa, then that would be better to discuss.

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Firstly, the reason why i repeated myself was that you seemed to have ignored what i said in the first place - i said that its not like theyre changing or ignoring things because they want to be liberal and you asked me would i ignore wajibat for the sake of being liberal.

I think youre right in your conclusion that this discussion will not lead us anywhere unless we know the details of these so-called liberal scholars' methodologies. Im quite interested in this so i wil try to get some more insight into it and maybe it will be possible to continue this discussion one day. It will however be difficult because as i said such details are only really available to people who study directly under these Ayatullahs. Until that day i guess you will have to admit that by saying that these scholars include a principle of liberalism in their ijtihad you are merely stating your own opinion. Personally i think that such opinion is not more grounded that an allegation that all other Ayatullahs include some 'principle of strictness' in their ijtihad. I dont believe neither to be true.

But what I do want to say is that it is all too easy to narrow this discussion down to Fadlallah as he seems to be an easy target for everyone due to some other factors (like his alleged lack of ijtihad authorisation by other scholars, some of his non-fiqhi ideas being criticised by other scholars, etc.). But the fact is that we have a small group of 3 top marjas that produce rulings that seem quite 'liberal'. Im actually pretty sure that we would be able to find a few less known Ayatullahs who also seem 'liberal'. Myself, I would add Ayatullah Montazeri to this list (at least to some extent, hes not as liberal as Saanei but still more liberal than the majority). So the question (and the core of my objection) is: do you really think that all of them just decided 'im gonna change some stuff in this strict and rigid religion, i will be liberal based on nothing but my opinion'? Or maybe you could accept the possibility that within the framework of ijtihad there is room for methodologies which still base themselves in textual evidences but their outcome is just different at times and happens to seem 'liberal'? And if your opinion is still that some scholars just decided to be liberal for the sake of liberalism, why do you think this is so? With the exception of Fadlallah, their credentials are not disputed, they are top scholars, would they even get their marjaiyat endorsed by any other scholars if they merely followed personal opinion and liberalism?

On a side note, where exactly is the belief that Imams control every atom of the universe expounded in the Qur'an? And as far as pornography is concerned i fail to see how Fadlallahs ruling contradicts the verse you mentioned, unless we base ourselves on false analogy again. On one hand we have a prohibition of looking at naked women with the exception of when it could overcome frigidity in marital relations, on the other hand we have a prohibition of changing your wife based on your attraction to a new woman. Somehow i fail to see any apparent contradiction. Looking at some pictures for a quasi-medical reason (the effectiveness of such a procedure is irrelevant in our discussion) is nowhere near changing your wife for someone else.

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Pay close attention to the "if" statements in fatwas.

Ayt. Sistani says classical, some folk, and Islamic hymns are allowed, so long as they don't consist of ghina (I'm still unsure what is ghina) or lead one away from Islam. I am also unsure what is a gathering of amusement. A classical concert is a gathering, and I don't know why anyone would go except for amusement, but classical music is allowed. I believe "gathering of amusement" should more accurately be stated as "gathering of debauchery".

(salam)

This is where I am still confused.

My interpretation of what I have read in the various Marja's is this:

Maybe classical music and music that is soothing and relaxing and calms the nerves is ok. Music that children sing along to is OK. Maybe local folk music that brings communities together i.e. Scottish music where people play traditional instruments together at community gatherings is OK as well as nashids and Islamic music especially that which brings people to Islam. But music used at clubs, pubs, parties and music with haram lyrics is bad.

This is only my interpretation using common sense too. Living as a westerner, Moslem revert in an non-Moslem society you have to take account of the fact that 1) you cannot avoid music completely if you play a role in society as it is everywhere 2) you were brought up with music 3) because you were brought up with and around music it is quite easy to differentiate which music leads you to bad behaviour and which actually lifts your mood, is relaxing, not harmful.

I think what we have to be aware of and what is very dangerous is the mass pop culture, MTV type thing that is brainwashing the minds of young people and creating a very negative image for them to strive towards and is taking them away from Islam. Classical and folk music does not have this effect on people. It has its place in society but does not take over. I suppose if you look at alcohol - alcohol itself is not 'bad', it can be used in medicines and for cleaning wounds e.g. It is 'how' alcohol is used that is bad when it is drunk to become intoxicated.

Allah hafez

Fatimeh

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Until that day i guess you will have to admit that by saying that these scholars include a principle of liberalism in their ijtihad you are merely stating your own opinion.

Yes, of course. However, what can one do but speculate ? There is no evidence to show that an opinion-based methodology has not been used (and no, "credentials" do not hold any water), - no, rather, there is only favourable evidence in support of it. Until we are aware of his reasoning, then ihtiyat should be practiced.

But what I do want to say is that it is all too easy to narrow this discussion down to Fadlallah as he seems to be an easy target for everyone due to some other factors (like his alleged lack of ijtihad authorisation by other scholars, some of his non-fiqhi ideas being criticised by other scholars, etc.). But the fact is that we have a small group of 3 top marjas that produce rulings that seem quite 'liberal'. Im actually pretty sure that we would be able to find a few less known Ayatullahs who also seem 'liberal'. Myself, I would add Ayatullah Montazeri to this list (at least to some extent, hes not as liberal as Saanei but still more liberal than the majority). So the question (and the core of my objection) is: do you really think that all of them just decided 'im gonna change some stuff in this strict and rigid religion, i will be liberal based on nothing but my opinion'? Or maybe you could accept the possibility that within the framework of ijtihad there is room for methodologies which still base themselves in textual evidences but their outcome is just different at times and happens to seem 'liberal'? And if your opinion is still that some scholars just decided to be liberal for the sake of liberalism, why do you think this is so? With the exception of Fadlallah, their credentials are not disputed, they are top scholars, would they even get their marjaiyat endorsed by any other scholars if they merely followed personal opinion and liberalism?

You are seriously mistaken and reversed the measure! Truth and false hood are not measured by the worth of persons. Firstly find out what is truth and which is falsehood, then you will see who stands by truth and who with falsehood.

Imam Ali [AS] - Nahj Balagha (http://www.al-islam.org/al-tawhid/glimpses/)

"Credentials" are not a measure of the truth. Just because their names are prefixed with "Ayatullah" - and have been for some time now - that does not prove anything. Your situation is exactly as described by Imam Ali [AS] in this hadeeth.

Or maybe you could accept the possibility that within the framework of ijtihad there is room for methodologies which still base themselves in textual evidences but their outcome is just different at times and happens to seem 'liberal'?

Osama Bin Laden interprets the Qur'an in such a way to support is ideology of terrorism too. Do you accept the possibility that he uses a valid methodology also ?

...A Third effective source of error pointed out by the Qur'an is

Selfish motives tarnish virtue and merit,

A cascade of curtains gallops from the heart towards vision.

Unless one maintains objectivity and neutrality in every matter, he is unlikely to think correctly. Reason can function properly only in an atmosphere that is free of selfish desires and motives. A well-known anecdote of al-Allamah al-Hilli, can illustrate this point...

Understanding the Uniqueness of the Qur'an (http://www.al-islam.org/al-tawhid/unique-quran.htm)

If a fatwa contradicts all other sources (especially if the person is known to have a vested interest), it is then rationally questioned. If no valid reasoning is given, then it is rejected - Ayatullah or not. We do not sit around and accept out of ignorance every fatwa that is thrown at us, on the mere idea that since he is an Ayatullah, he is also infalliable.

PS Please keep me updated if you manage to obtain a copy of the istadlali book.

With Prayers For Your Success,

The Persian Shah

Edited by The Persian Shah

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PS Please keep me updated if you manage to obtain a copy of the istadlali book.

Well, with regards to Shaykh Saanei, if you go in the Persian and Arabic sections there's a lot of such works online, such as the series Fiqh-o-Zendegi which goes over a number of issues in the istidlali manner. There's also at least some of his dars-e-kharaj in both usul and fiqh.

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Well, with regards to Shaykh Saanei, if you go in the Persian and Arabic sections there's a lot of such works online, such as the series Fiqh-o-Zendegi which goes over a number of issues in the istidlali manner. There's also at least some of his dars-e-kharaj in both usul and fiqh.

Thank you very much. :)

IIRC, you currently reside in Qom ?

In short......NONE.....

Well said :P

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