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FatimehJ

Sufism And Shia Islam

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did you copy paste that stuff? i would like to know the source if you dont mind.

thank you sister.

May God bless you

>>>>>>>>>>yes we have to be so very careful as to who we curse or this curse will come back upon us but the quran gives us insight as to what kind of a person has the curse of Allah and the malaaikah and all men... did you forget this? that ALL the malaaikah together with all men curse certain people......so many people that the sunni praise daily fit these descriptions given in the quran.... and i do not personally feel that the curse will come back to me if i curse these people.....

.you do not have to curse anyone if you do not feel.... but lets not praise them either...

The name of Ibn 'Arabi remains associated with controversy because of those who criticized him severely for the work attributed to him under the title Fusus al-Hikam ("The Precious Stones of the Wisdoms").

The attribution of this work in its present form[1] to Ibn 'Arabi is undoubtedly incorrect as the Fusus contradicts some of the most basic tenets of Islam[2] expounded by Ibn 'Arabi himself in his authentic works, such as the finality of Prophethood, the primacy of Prophets over non-Prophets, the abrogation of all religious creeds other than Islam, the everlastingness of the punishment of Hellfire and its dwellers, the abiding therein of anyone that does not accept the Prophet after his coming, Pharaoh's damnation, etc....

and rumi was leader of those whirling dervishes.... can you really truly respect this acts? he wrote pretty poetry bit lets not be a whirling dervish anytime soon....

. i will say good things about Al-Ghazalî' though<<<<<<

Assalamu alaikum

I believe it was Ghazali who said to not examine the martyrdom of Imam Husain(as) because it could end up with criticising some of the sahaba.

Rumi I don't believe started the whirling in that order, I believe it was his son after Rumi's death. Alot of Rumi's writings were done BEFORE his meeting of Shams a Din.

No one who ignores the walayat of Imam Ali(as) is going to be totally correct. Some of what these people say are right on, and some of it isn't. But what the Imams had to say is right on.

Curse, don't curse. I suggest those of you interested in this subject open up your mafatee al jinan and go straight to Ziyarat a Aushura and recite it for forty days. Then come back here and discuss how lanat on some people is spiritually detrimental.

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There is a very famious Hadith Qudsi from the Shia that says "I created so I would be known."

That is just another of Ibn Arabi's lies. There is no such hadith.

They say it is "fabricated"..

Ziyarat Ashura isn't the only place where they are cursed.

Oh and how could I forget. My favorite link. :blush:

Scandal of the Sufis.

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(salam)

>>>> but I am not querying whether 'to get too close to sufis or not'. My questioning at the moment is actually to enable me to move closer to shia Islam.<<<<<<<<<<

If you want to move closer to Shia Islam then the best thing is to read the Quran and the Sahiffa Sajadia.

II can definitely curse upon those who insult the Prophet (s.a.w.s) and his family (a.s.) without specifying individuals. I can merely state this is a bad thing to do and ask Allah to forgive them or punish them as he see fit.

>>>>>What about all those beautiful stories we have in Islam of our Prophet (s.a.w.s) and for example Imam Hossein (a.s.) showing so much kindness, forgiveness and patience and refraining from cursing. I like to think of these examples first.<<<<<<

The Imams cursed certain people. That would also be an example.

>>>>My worry I suppose is that the Shia won't accept me!!!! Hence all my questions!<<<<<<

Don't worry about that. It isn't necessary that everyone know everything you think and do and frankly, the shias as a group are not that welcoming to converts anyway.

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SALAAM EVERYONE. I HAD TO CHIME IN ON THIS....

I ACTUALLY FOUND AHLUL BAYT THROUGH SUFISM (QADRIYYAH). BEFORE SUFISM I WAS A DRY MUSLIM PRACTICING DRY FIQH WITH A DRY UNDERSTANDING OF ISLAM. SUFISM ALLOWED ME TO BREAK DOWN THE DOORS OF PRECONCEIVED NOTIONS AND TO EXPLORE Allah'S DEEN. I LEARNED ABOUT ALI (as) THROUGH SUFISM. ONE OF OUR MAIN DHIKRS WAS SALAWAAT ON MUHAMMAD AND HIS FAMILY (as). WE ALSO WE WERE PRACTICING MALIKI FIQH FOR THE MOST PART AND PRAID WITH OUT HANDS DOWN. MOST PEOPLE WOULD HAVE ASSUMED I WAS A SHIA WHEN I WAS REALLY A SUNNI.

IT WASN'T UNTIL I FOUND A MYSTERIOUS BOOK IN MY HOUSE THAT I HAD NEVER PURCHASED CALLED "KNOW YOUR ISLAM" THAT I STARTED TO LEARN ABOUT SHIA ISLAM. AT FIRST I WAS AFRAID TO READ THE BOOK BUT ONCE I BROKE DOWN THOSE WALLS I BECAME FULLY ENGULFED BY IT AND BEGAN TALKING TO SHIAS. I WAS AMAZED AT HOW SIMILAR MY CURRENT PRACTICES AT THE TIME WERE TO WHAT THE SHIA WERE DOING ALL UNDER ONE NAME (SHI'ISM) INSTEAD OF MANY (SUNNI, MALIKI, SUFISM, ETC.). I NATURALLY GO THE HINT THAT Allah WAS EVOLVING ME INTO SOMETHING AND THAT THIS WOULD BE THE NEXT LOGICAL STEP.

I HAVE NOW BEEN SHIA FOR 10 YEARS AND I HAVE FALLEN BACK IN LOVE WITH SUFISM AFTER BEING AWAY FOR A WHILE. HOWEVER, I DO NOT CONSIDER SUFISM TO BE SEPARATE FROM SHI'ISM IF ONE FOLLOWS THE AHLUL BAYT APPROACH. I FIND THE AHLUL BAYT APPROACH TO BE FAR SUPERIOR THAN ANY ONE TAREEQAH. SHI'ISM IN ITSELF IS A TAREEQAH WITH 12 INFALLIBLE MUREEDS WHO MOST TAREEQAS TRACE THEIR LINEAGES BACK TO. IMAM MAHDI (as) IS THE MUREED OF OUR AGE. ANY MUREED WHO ISN'T IN TUNE WITH THE LIVING IMAM WILL HAVE A LIMITED UNDERSTANDING COMPARED TO WHAT HE COULD HAVE OF COURSE.

MOST PEOPLE WHO CRITICIZE SUFISM HAVE NEVER EMBRACED SUFISM, THE SAME WAY SUNNIS WHO HAVE NEVER EMBRACED SHI'ISM CRITICIZE IT BECAUSE THEY HAVE LITTLE UNDERSTANDING. ANYBODY WHO STUDIES IMAM KHOMEINI'S BOOKS WILL DEFINITELY AGREE HE WAS ONE OF THE TOP SUFIS OF OUR TIME. MANY OF MY SUNNI FRIENDS TOLD ME TO LEAVE THOSE SHIA BOOKS ALONE. IF I HAD LISTENED TO THEM, I WOULD HAVE NEVER DISCOVERED THE TRUTH AND THE WISDOM OF AHLUL BAYT AND I WOULDN'T BE TYPING THIS NOW.

BOTTOMLINE... DO WHAT YOU HAVE TO DO FOR YOU. YOU ARE HERE TO WORSHIP Allah, TO KNOW Allah, AND TO PREPARE FOR THE HEREAFTER. THE BEST WAY TO DO THAT IS THROUGH DHIKR OF Allah AND THAT WILL OPEN DOORS FOR YOU. AHLUL BAYT IS REFERRED TO IN QUR'AN IS AHL ADH-DHIKR. KHALAS!!!

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Sufism is beyond stupid opinions, and rheotoric. Sufism compared to regular mainstream Dogma would be considered the ultimate shirk. The difference between a Shia and a Sufi is a Sufi will find Allah in this life, while a Shia will just talk about Allah. And follow dead traditions, and make up statements about Allah.

Your Imam's are of no use in this moment, and their opinions are irrelevant in the path of devotion, and knowing.

Edited by Aboo Fatimah

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Sufism is beyond stupid opinions, and rheotoric. Sufism compared to regular mainstream Dogma would be considered the ultimate shirk. The difference between a Shia and a Sufi is a Sufi will find Allah in this life, while a Shia will just talk about Allah. And follow dead traditions, and make up statements about Allah.

Your Imam's are of no use in this moment, and their opinions are irrelevant in the path of devotion, and knowing.

Most Sufi chains go through Imam 'Ali, and one also goes back to the Prophet and the Imams through Imam 'Ali Rida. If Sufism is alive today it is because of the influence of the Imams through the chains that reach contemporary shuyukh and their disciples. To say that they are of no use is to say that the Prophet's influence is of no use.

Further, the current Imam of the Time, Al-Mahdi, also has an initiatic influence on both Shi'ite 'urafa and some Sufis, not unlike Khidr. This uwaysi connection is as real as the more normative chains of transmission and will manifest to the greater Ummah at the end of time.

To try to marginalize the influence of the Imams, even if you think they were Sunnis, goes against the great reverence classical Sunnis had for the Imams and also betrays their living influence. There would be no Sayyid Haydar Amuli, Mulla Sadra, Allamah Tabataba'i, and many Sunni Sufi orders without the barakah of the blessed Prophet as transmitted through the Imams, may God's Peace and blessings be upon the Prophet and his family.

Wa Salam,

Nur Muhammad

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Sufis in Iran are persecuted by the theocratic shia regime for the only reason that Sufism is historicaly deeply related to Sunnism.True intellectuals of Iran are more interested in Ibn Arabi, Jalal Din Rumi,Attar,Sohrawardi ,Iqbal than the hypocrite and repulsive slogans of the regime.

http://www.payvand.com/news/07/nov/1148.html

Ask yourselves ,What would remain of the Sufi litterature if we remove all the gems written by the Sunni shouyoukh from Al Andalus to the borders with China.Add to them ,the works of reverted western Sufis from Europe and America ,like the french Sheikh:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ren%C3%A9_Gu%C3%A9non

http://www.worldwisdom.com/public/authors/Rene-Guenon.aspx

and:Sheikh Abu Bakr SirajAlDin(Martin Lings)

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Martin_Lings

Edited by Omar Khayyam

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(salam)

I am a revert to Islam and have been for many many years now and have been chugging along quite nicely not really belonging to any group.

I initially converted with Sunni Moslems when very young, then spent the majority of my adult life amongst Shia Moslems and the last 7 or 8 years with Sunni Moslems again.

I feel like a child of a mixed race marriage!

I also felt over the years that everyone wanted a piece of me as a convert and loved to tell me the 'right way'.

Anyway 7 or 8 years ago I found a Sufi Tariqat - Naqshbandi - these people were extremely open minded and tolerant and it didn't seem to matter what group you belonged to. They are mostly Sunni, but I have met a few Shia in the tariqat. Amongst the Sunnis there are members of different Sunni groups. It is never an issue. They all share an aim to get closer to Allah and be good practising Moslems. Everything seemed simple when I joined the tariqat. I had a sheikh to turn to - to answer any doubts or questions I had (just like Shia Moslems seem to ask Ayatollahs).

I now consider myself mainly Shia in belief but belonging to this sufi tariqat which has honestly helped me become more spiritual.

So after finding this forum I was very happy too - a group of people from the school of thought I identify most with and discussing issues I want to discuss - BUT I found some discussions stating sufism isn't acceptable in Shia Islam and wanted to discuss this further.

Is this really true or just some hardliner view? Surely Hafez, Attar and Rumi and such are acceptable. Surely the desire to conquer your ego, live simply and worship Allah cannot be wrong?

I am bitterly disappointed if it is true that I cannot follow Shia Islam and remain part of my tariqat.

I would be really grateful for any insight from members on this issue.

Allah hafez

Fatimeh

I added you. Pls leave a private message from your profile. I am Naqshabandhi. I think I can tell you something which some of these fellow brothers doesnt know. I am not letting them down but as someone who share the similar belief as you are, I have more insights in to what you are looking for. May Allah bless you!

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Assalamou alaikoum

The reason that I told myself a sunni is because only the sunni sect accept Sufism and without practicing tassawuf(inner cleaning) no one can become a wali Allah. Even the great Wali Allah (ghaws e azam, sheikh Abdel Qadir Jilani (ra) who was wali Allah in the cradle(i.e from birth) follows the footsteps of Sufism. The muslims at his time will know whether or not the month of Ramadan has started by finding out if the baby(sheikh Abdel Qadir Jilani (ra)) has taken milk from his mother.

Let me mention some of the names who has attained wilayat and all of them has practiced Sufism.

• wali Allah Ali Hujweri (ra)

• baba Faridudin(ra)

• Kwaja Garib nawaz(ra)

• Baba Kalandar(ra)

• Sheikh Abdel Qadir Jilani (ra)

• Sheikh Junaid Baghdadi (ra)

• Sheikh Nazim Haqani(ra)

• And among others.

Wali Allah are the true inheritors of the prophet(saw) and true islam is with them. They are the one who knows the path and without their help we cannot attain closeness to Allah. If Allah want to guide you, you will definitely met one of them.

I am also a murid of sheikh Nazim Haqani(ra). He shows much of tolerance and he has even said that he is a bin because he accepts all the bad things of his mureeds. The tolerance is like that of the prophet(saw) who converted the lady who were throwing dirt on him. Their only task is to make dawah(invitation to islam), Allah has given them the wisdom and authority which they used to bring (those people who Allah want to guide)to sirat al mustakeem. The are the true vicegerent of Allah.

There are also wali Allah who are hidden, that is Allah has not allowed them to be known, and it is only because of them Allah is sending rain to the earth. Their main task is to ask dua from Allah and it is only because of their duas that we are still living.

These wali Allah mentioned above and among others have made lots of miracles(qaramat). For example, Sheikh Nazim Haqani (ra)has already get the knowledge from the prophet that one of his mureed is going to die, he come just in time to wash him, shroud him and bury him.

All the teachings of the Wali Allah are almost the same, they incite you to enter islam completely. Allah has made them to become the door of knowledge (ilm e laduni i.e the secret of Allah). If Allah want to guide you , Allah will make you have love to the Wali Allah and will make you take bayat on their hands, else you will have hatred for them and you will be ruined. Its high time to read about these personalities

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I have the same issue as the person who posted above. I am also a Muslim revert who joined a Shadhilli Sufi order in Michigan (USA) because I felt like I needed something more intellectual and spiritually enlightening than the general Islamic community I live in. I'm from Dearborn Michigan, and I don't know how many people are familiar with this place but it's one (if not the most) concentrated Muslim population outside of the Middle East and we are predominantly Shia here. But there is a huge level of ignorance in Dearborn and just a general lack of depth. The sufi order I joined however was filled with deep wisdom and spiritual enlightenment and it made me feel so much more at home with my faith and provided so much clarity. It helped me to understand the wisdom of the shia imams when ironically I was not understanding it in my own shia community. Much like the member who started this post, I was happy going to my sufi group and also engaging in the Islamic community here but then I started hearing from some scholars that Sufism was deviant and haraam. I've talked to one scholar about my situation and he told me to repent to Allah and turn back to the Shia tradition. And another scholar told me it's ok to be their friend but don't engage in their practices.

So I did this, but I've never felt more devoid of wisdom; it feels like the light has left both my heart and mind; I feel depressed, constricted, and tired with my faith. Whereas before, I liked following the shia path with my sufi wisdom, now I feel like I'm just following shi'ism because it's the "halal thing to do" and not because I truly love and am connected to it's inner message within my heart. I feel like I'm doing it against my will. I feel like a hypocrite. But then I have a dillema because I know as shia we shouldn't disobey our scholars

And to be fair, I had also felt a lot of red flags go up about my sufi situation, and was also having my doubts about it. It was like my heart was in it, but my mind was like "there's something strange about this." So I apologize for blaming scholars (astaghfir Allah) because I also felt something strange about the situation too. I feel like a person who has been through a bad relationship and can't get over it.lol

But I love the Sufi teachings of unity and seeing the connections between all people and seeing Islam as a universal, primordial religion; the religion of human nature, beyond sectarianism. It fits well with the Imam Ali's (Alayhi, Salaam) saying "If he is not your brother in faith, he is your brother in humanity." But I'm just not getting that Truth from the community I'm in, or from any shia Muslims for that matter. I don't feel like a shia; I don't feel like a sufi; or a sunni or anything really. I don't feel like I can identify with any group, And to be honest, I wonder, why can't I just be Muslim?

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I have the same issue as the person who posted above. I am also a Muslim revert who joined a Shadhilli Sufi order in Michigan (USA) because I felt like I needed something more intellectual and spiritually enlightening than the general Islamic community I live in. I'm from Dearborn Michigan, and I don't know how many people are familiar with this place but it's one (if not the most) concentrated Muslim population outside of the Middle East and we are predominantly Shia here. But there is a huge level of ignorance in Dearborn and just a general lack of depth. The sufi order I joined however was filled with deep wisdom and spiritual enlightenment and it made me feel so much more at home with my faith and provided so much clarity. It helped me to understand the wisdom of the shia imams when ironically I was not understanding it in my own shia community. Much like the member who started this post, I was happy going to my sufi group and also engaging in the Islamic community here but then I started hearing from some scholars that Sufism was deviant and haraam. I've talked to one scholar about my situation and he told me to repent to Allah and turn back to the Shia tradition. And another scholar told me it's ok to be their friend but don't engage in their practices.

So I did this, but I've never felt more devoid of wisdom; it feels like the light has left both my heart and mind; I feel depressed, constricted, and tired with my faith. Whereas before, I liked following the shia path with my sufi wisdom, now I feel like I'm just following shi'ism because it's the "halal thing to do" and not because I truly love and am connected to it's inner message within my heart. I feel like I'm doing it against my will. I feel like a hypocrite. But then I have a dillema because I know as shia we shouldn't disobey our scholars

And to be fair, I had also felt a lot of red flags go up about my sufi situation, and was also having my doubts about it. It was like my heart was in it, but my mind was like "there's something strange about this." So I apologize for blaming scholars (astaghfir Allah) because I also felt something strange about the situation too. I feel like a person who has been through a bad relationship and can't get over it.lol

But I love the Sufi teachings of unity and seeing the connections between all people and seeing Islam as a universal, primordial religion; the religion of human nature, beyond sectarianism. It fits well with the Imam Ali's (Alayhi, Salaam) saying "If he is not your brother in faith, he is your brother in humanity." But I'm just not getting that Truth from the community I'm in, or from any shia Muslims for that matter. I don't feel like a shia; I don't feel like a sufi; or a sunni or anything really. I don't feel like I can identify with any group, And to be honest, I wonder, why can't I just be Muslim?

But you don't have to follow the "ulema" at your local mosque. Apparently God has given you a vocation that you ought to live up to. You would be doing injustice to yourself if you ignore your spiritual calling that not "everyone" has. :)

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