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In the Name of God بسم الله

Lanatollah Upon Muawya And Whoever Loves Him

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al-khoei12

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-everybody knows the hAdith Where it sAys thqt muawya ordered saad about cursing ali(as) and blind salafis keep saying ; oh no the hadith doesn mean that

heres a hadith explaining clearly that indeed muawya himself cursed ali(as)

ÍÏËäÇ ÃÈæ ãÚÇæíÉ Úä ãæÓì Èä ãÓáã Úä ÚÈÏ ÇáÑÍãä Èä ÓÇÈØ Úä ÓÚÏ ÞÇá : ÞÏã ãÚÇæíÉ Ýí ÈÚÖ ÍÌÇÊå ÝÃÊÇå ÓÚÏ ÝÐßÑæÇ ÚáíÇ ÝäÇá ãäå ãÚÇæíÉ ÝÛÖÈ ÓÚÏ ÝÞÇá : [ ÊÞæá åÐÇ ÇáÑÌá ] ¡ ÓãÚÊ ÑÓæá Çááå Õáì Çááå Úáíå æÓáã íÞæá : " áå ËáÇË ÎÕÇá áÇä Êßæä áí ÎÕáÉ ãäåÇ ÃÍÈ Åáí ãä ÇáÏäíÇ æãÇ ÝíåÇ ¡ æÓãÚÊ ÑÓæá Çááå Õáì Çááå Úáíå æÓáã íÞæá : ãä ßäÊ ãæáÇå ÝÚáí ãæáÇå ¡ æÓãÚÊ ÇáäÈí Õáì Çááå Úáíå æÓáã íÞæá : " ÃäÊ ãäí ÈãäÒáÉ åÇÑæä ãä ãæÓì ÅáÇ Ãäå áÇ äÈí ÈÚÏí ¡ æÓãÚÊ ÑÓæá Çááå Õáì Çááå Úáíå æÓáã íÞæá : áÇ ÚØíä ÇáÑÇíÉ ÑÌáÇ íÍÈ Çááå æÑÓæáå "

the part in red says clearly: muawya insulted ali

this hadith is in musannaf ibn abi shaibah volume 7 page 496

- heres some more proof from syar aalam nubalah volume 5 page 147

narrated ibn saad from ali ibn muhammed from loot ibn yahya he said:

THE RULERS OF BANI UMAYYAH UNTILL OMAR IBN ABDULAZIZ USED TO CURSE A MAN RADHIALLAHU ANH

SO WHEN OMAR IBN ABDULAZIZ BECAME RULER HE STOPPED THIS PRACTISE SO A POET CALLED KUTHAIR AZZA ALKHUZAI PRAISED HIM WITH A POEM . IN ARABIC

æáíÊ Ýáã ÊÔÊã ÚáíÇ æáã ÊÎÝ * ÈÑíÇ¡ æáã ÊÊÈÚ ãÞÇáÉ ãÌÑã

ÊßáãÊ ÈÇáÍÞ ÇáãÈíä æÅäãÇ * ÊÈíä ÂíÇÊ ÇáåÏì ÈÇáÊßáã

ÝÕÏÞÊ ãÚÑæÝ ÇáÐí ÞáÊ ÈÇáÐí * ÝÚáÊ ÝÃÖÍì ÑÇÖíÇ ßá ãÓáã

I TRANSLATE THE PART IN RED WHERE IT SAYS :u ruled so u didn,t curse ali....

also read this from alhamawi from (mojam al-boldan) page 38 volume 5

áÚä Úáí Èä ÃÈí ØÇáÈ ÑÖí Çááå Úäå Úáì ãäÇÈÑ ÇáÔÑÞ æÇáÛÑÈ æáã íáÚä Úáì ãäÈÑ ÓÌÓÊÇä ÅáÇ ãÑÉ æÇãÊäÚæÇ Úáì Èäí ÃãíÉ ÍÊì ÒÇÏæÇ Ýí ÚåÏåã: æÃä áÇ íáÚä Úáì ãäÈÑåã ÃÍÏ. æÃí ÔÑÝ ÃÚÙã ãä ÇãÊäÇÚåã ãä áÚä ÃÎí ÑÓæá Çááå Úáì ãäÈÑåã æåæ íáÚä Úáì ãäÇÈÑ ÇáÍÑãíä ãßÉ æÇáãÏíäÉ

it says; ali in abi talib was CURSED FROM EAST TO WEST BUT IN SAJISTAN HE WAS CURSED ONLY ONCE.....AND WHAT MORE HONOUR IS BETTER THAN REFUSING TO CURSE THE BROTHER OF RASOOL FROM THEIR PULPIT(HE MEANS SAJISTAN) WHILE HE WAS CURSED FROM THE PULPITS OF MECCA AND MADINAH

lanatollah upon the enemies of ameer al-momineen(as)

Edited by al-khoei12
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Ahlussunah say that it is a weak hadith and that Muwaiyah may have made mistake because he was human and may have repented on his deathbed.

May he(Lanati) burn in hell. He was a dushman of Qaseem ul Jannah wa Naar, he must be in the lowest portion of hell.

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the sunnis do not believe that amir muawiyah cursed ali (ra) . the hadih in sahih muslim asks saad (ra) why didnt he curse ali (ra).

yes amir muawiyah was a sahabi and hence in sunni eyes he is loved and respected. you have to remember what sunnis believe;

that the sahabah were the best generation of muslims, hence the lowest sahabi is better than the best of the rest.

so even if amir muawiyah was the lowest sahabi (only Allah knows);

the sunnis still believe that amir muawiyah was still better than

the 4 sunni imams

the 9 shia imams (who were not sahabi i.e. ali,hassan,hussain)

umar bin abdul aziz

ibne taymiah

abdul qaadir jaylaani

muhammad bin abdul wahab

ahmad reza khan

or any other non sahaabi scholar in sunni school of thought

i hope this helps you to understand

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the sunnis still believe that amir muawiyah was still better than

the 4 sunni imams

the 9 shia imams (who were not sahabi i.e. ali,hassan,hussain)

Better than Al Sajjad (as), Al Baqir (as) and As Sadiq (as)? Better than Abu Hanifa and Anass ibn Malik (ra)? Sorry to tell you but.. that is absolutely not what sunni's believe. Sunni's hold the Imams (as) in very high regard, as well as the 4 sunni Imams. What are you? One of the Khawaridj? Pretty much sums up your wicked belief. Go read books. If Barrack Obama can, so can you.

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the sunnis do not believe that amir muawiyah cursed ali (ra) . the hadih in sahih muslim asks saad (ra) why didnt he curse ali (ra).

yes amir muawiyah was a sahabi and hence in sunni eyes he is loved and respected. you have to remember what sunnis believe;

that the sahabah were the best generation of muslims, hence the lowest sahabi is better than the best of the rest.

so even if amir muawiyah was the lowest sahabi (only Allah knows);

the sunnis still believe that amir muawiyah was still better than

the 4 sunni imams

the 9 shia imams (who were not sahabi i.e. ali,hassan,hussain)

umar bin abdul aziz

ibne taymiah

abdul qaadir jaylaani

muhammad bin abdul wahab

ahmad reza khan

or any other non sahaabi scholar in sunni school of thought

i hope this helps you to understand

It's unbelievable how much garbage comes out of your mouth. You speak on no one's behalf, so just keep quiet and stop spreading lies. You just slandered your entire sect, do you realize that? Mu'awiyah? Better than the Imams of Ahlul'bayt? May the curses be upon you and whoever thinks like you do, and may you be raised with your master Mu'awiyah (LA) on the Day of Judgment.

- Mansab

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the sunnis do not believe that amir muawiyah cursed ali (ra) . the hadih in sahih muslim asks saad (ra) why didnt he curse ali (ra).

yes amir muawiyah was a sahabi and hence in sunni eyes he is loved and respected. you have to remember what sunnis believe

This is just not true. Brother you are giving a blatantly untrue generalization

sunnis are divided on Muawiya, some curse him, some love him and some just don't form an opinion on him because they purposely have never been taught about him.

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(salam)

On one occasion a man from the Shaam district came across Imam Hassan (A). In a massive disinformation campaign by Mu’awiyah, the self-imposed ruler of that district the people of the Shaam have been def with hatred towards Ali and his descendants. As soon as the man realised that Imam Hassan (A) was nearby, he started verbally assault and curse the Imam. Imam Hassan (A) remained silent and calm knowing that the Shaami man doesn’t know Imam Ali (A) and his household except trhough the picture of Mu’awiyah son of Hind has painted for them. After the man finished his assault and name calling, Imam Hassan smiled to him and in a calm manner, while totally ignoring what he saw and hear, said:

’May peace be with you ”O’ Sheikh! I guess you are a stranger in this territory, and you might have mistaken me. If you seek contentment we would gratify you, and if you ask us anything we shall give it to you, and if you sought any guidance from us we shall guide you, if you sought any help from us we shall help you, and if you were hungry we shall feed you, if you needed any clothing we shall give you them, and if you were poor we shall give you money, if you have been expelled (from your home town) we shall accommodate you, and if you had any need we shall fulfil your need . . .’

The Imam continued to offer all the help he could offer the Shaami man showing him grace and kindness. The Shaami man was baffled and totally actonished by the response of the Imam, and he was so ashamed of his conduct that broke in tears saying: "Allah knows best as to whom He entrust

His message with.”

'Cursed is he who burdens others with his responsibilities and lives off them.' - Prophet Muhammad (S)

Imam Ali (A) was the first person to believe in the Messenger of Allah (S). He never worshipped any idols. In all wars victory depended on his participation and contribution. He never turned his back to the enemy. As a judge, he received this compliment from the holy Prophet (S), "Ali is the best judge among you." In relation to his adherence to the Truth the Prophet (S) has said, "Ali is with the Truth and Truth is with Ali.".

Wa Sallal Allaahu alaa Muhammad wa Aale Muhammad

(wasalam)

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i am sorry to say this but my shia brothers are living on cloud 9.

to say sunnis hate muawiyah and are divided upon him is just untrue.

go to sunniforum.com which a mixture of deobandi/salafi/braelwi/jamati islami site and type muawiyah and see for yourself

or go to yanabi.com which is a brealwi site and type muawiyah and see yourself

and here is a sunni sufi view of amir muawiyah

http://www.yanabi.com/mediabank/Ameer%20Mu...hmi%20Miyaan.rm

the reality is that sunnis believe muawiyah was a sahabi, and that the sahabhs were the best of muslims and hence they are better than any of those who came after them.

what is the difficulty in understanding this?

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(salam)

whether he was a sahabi or wahabi , he was a man of evil. ok so all sahabi are excellence in their belief ? because they saw , spoke and even prayed with the holy prophet (pbuh) . Then why could muawiya (la) not brought his corrupt son well up ? can muawiya himself not distinguish right from wrong ? yazeed, the drunked ? and why was sura 63 revealed ?

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i am sorry to say this but my shia brothers are living on cloud 9.

to say sunnis hate muawiyah and are divided upon him is just untrue.

go to sunniforum.com which a mixture of deobandi/salafi/braelwi/jamati islami site and type muawiyah and see for yourself

or go to yanabi.com which is a brealwi site and type muawiyah and see yourself

and here is a sunni sufi view of amir muawiyah

http://www.yanabi.com/mediabank/Ameer%20Mu...hmi%20Miyaan.rm

the reality is that sunnis believe muawiyah was a sahabi, and that the sahabhs were the best of muslims and hence they are better than any of those who came after them.

what is the difficulty in understanding this?

I have never in my life met a sunni who thinks positively of Muawiya, aside from forums

Every sunni that I have ever met denounced Muawiya

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I have never in my life met a sunni who thinks positively of Muawiya, aside from forums

Every sunni that I have ever met denounced Muawiya

maybe they are doing taqqiyya on you. infact alot of sunnis dont even know who amir muawiyah was coz we dont bother on these issues.

I will challenge any shia to find me a sunni website/forum that hate on amir muawiyah.

i will help you start on yanabi.com and sunniforum.com - they dont hate on amir muawiyah infact they love him.

i did not realise how naive my shia brothers and sister are on this issue

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im sorry very very much to write this here so please do not get angry with me for this....... but here is sunni position on muwaiyah... their version of history in a few paragraphs.......

as taken from islamicity.org........

But they were not always at the forefront and from the time of Mu'awiyah the caliph's role as "Defender of the Faith" increasingly required him to devote attention to the purely secular concerns which dominate so much of every nation's history.

Muiawiyah was an able administrator, and even his critics concede that he possessed to a high degree the much-valued quality of hilm - a quality which may be defined as "civilized restraint" and which he himself once described in these words:

I apply not my sword where my lash suffices, nor my lash where my tongue is enough. And even if there be one hair binding me to my fellowmen, I do not let it break: when they pull I loosen, and if they loosen I pull.

Nevertheless, Mu'awiyah was never able to reconcile the opposition to his rule nor solve the conflict with the Shi'is. These problems were not unmanageable while Mu'awiyah was alive, but after he died in 680 the partisans of 'Ali resumed a complicated but persistent struggle that plagued the Umayyads at home for most of the next seventy years and in time spread into North Africa and Spain.

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maybe they are doing taqqiyya on you. infact alot of sunnis dont even know who amir muawiyah was coz we dont bother on these issues.

I will challenge any shia to find me a sunni website/forum that hate on amir muawiyah.

i will help you start on yanabi.com and sunniforum.com - they dont hate on amir muawiyah infact they love him.

i did not realise how naive my shia brothers and sister are on this issue

Which country are you from.......Saudi?

In Pakistan I have never met any sunni who thinks positively of muawiya, and by that I mean those who actually practice their religion and know their faith. I would argue the same is true in India, as I have never heard any of my friends speak about him the way you are doing. I have never even met such a sunni here in Canada. Just yesterday I had a talk with my arab culture professor on muawiya, and he is a very knowledgeable sunni.

Edited by koroigetsuga
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here is an exerpt from sunniforum

http://www.sunniforum.com/forum/search.php...p=25&page=3

HADHRAT MUAWIYYAH (radhiallahu anhu)

Among the greatest excellences of Ameerul Mu`mineen Hadhrat Ameer Muawiyyah (radhiallahu anhu) is the fact that he was one of Rasulullah’s (sallallahu alayhi wasallam) scribes who wrote the Wahi of the Qur`aan under the instructions of Nabi-e-Kareem (sallallahu alayhi wasallam). This unique position of trust assigned to him by Rasulullah (sallallahu alayhi wasallam) is sufficient to refute the crude and vulgar Shi`i slander and abuse directed against this noble and illustrious Sahaabi.

Another fact which bears out his proximity to Rasulullah (sallallahu alayhi wasallam) and his lofty rank among the Sahaabah is his appointment as commander of the Muslim army by Rasulullah (sallallahu alayhi wasallam). Stressing the lofty rank of Ameerul Mu`mineen Hadhrat Muawiyyah radhiallahu anhu), Sheikh Waliyullah Muhaddith Dehlwi (rahmatullahi alayh) says in Izaalatul Khifaa:

“Know that Muawiyyah Bin Sufyaan (radhiallahu anhuma) was a Sahaabi of Rasulullah (sallallahu alayhi wasallam). In the general group of the Sahaabah , he held a distinguished position and rank. He is a Sahaabi of outstanding virtue and excellence. Beware! Never revile him. Never commit the Haraam act of abusing him.”

Shiahs claim that if Hadhrat Abu Bakr (radhiallahu anhu) had possessed the qualities of leadership, Rasulullah (sallallahu alayhi wasallam) would have appointed him commander of the army. This false assertion has already been rebutted earlier in the discussion on Hadhrat Abu Bakr (radhiallahu anhu). It was shown that Hadhrat Abu Bakr (radhiallahu anhu) was in fact made commander of the army in several battles.

If Shiahs honestly believe that only one who has been appointed commander possesses the qualifications of leadership, then let them accept the leadership of Hadhrat Muawiyyah (radhiallahu anhu) who was appointed commander of the army by Rasulullah (sallallahu alayhi wasallam).

Bearing testimony to the rank of Hadhrat Muawiyyah (radhiallahu anhu), Hadhrat Ali (radhiallahu anhu) says: “O People! Do not revile the reign of Muawiyyah. I swear by Allah! When he lives no longer, anarchy will spread wildly on earth.” [izaalatul Khifaa]

Hadhrat Ali (radhiallahu anhu) said:

“The best of the Ummah after its Nabi are Abu Bakr and Umar.” [bukhaari]

This statement of Hadhrat Ali (radhiallahu anhu) has been narrated by eighty persons.

Ibn Umar (radhiallahu anhu) said:

“ During the lifetime of Rasulullah (sallallahu alayhi wasallam) we used to say: ‘The noblest of the Ummah of Nabi (sallallahu alayhi wasallam) after the Nabi (sallallahu alayhi wasallam) is Abu Bakr, then Umar and then Uthmaan.”

[bukhaari]

After the assassination of Hadhrat Uthmaan (radhiAllaahu anhu) there brewed a strong difference of opinion between the Sahaabah (radhiAllaahu anhum) when some people demanded the retribution of the murderers. This difference between the Sahaabah (radhiAllaahu anhum) finally led to many battles that took place between them, like The Battle of Jamal and Siffeen, etc. This is what is called Mushaajaraat-e-Sahaabah. When Hadhrat Ali (radhiAllaahu anhu) was chosen as Khalifah everyone accepted his Khilaafat and all testified to his virtue and worthiness. Nevertheless, the retribution for the assassination of Hadhrat Uthmaan (radhiAllaahu anhu) became the point of contention. On the one Hadhrat Zubair and Talha (radhiAllaahu anhuma), who took Ba`it at Hadhrat Ali’s (radhiAllaahu anhu) hands, demanded the revenge for the assassination of Hadhrat Uthmaan (radhiAllaahu anhu). Hadhrat Ali (radhiAllaahu anhu) told them that the opportunity was not right and that the Ummat was yet in turmoil. He told them that as soon as the Khilaafat comes under control and matters were under his hand, he would most certainly bring the guilty ones to book.

At that time, Hadhrat Aishah (radhiAllaahu anhu) went for Hajj. Whilst returning the news of the assassination of Hadhrat Uthmaan (radhiAllaahu anhu) reached her and she also demanded the retribution of the guilty. Hadhrat Zubair and Talha (radhiAllaahu anhuma) were not satisfied with the reply they got from Hadhrat Ali (radhiAllaahu anhu), so they went and teamed up with Hadhrat Aishah (radhiAllaahu anhu) and their argument was thus bolstered. They though that Hadhrat Ali (radhiAllaahu anhu) did not want to avenge the assassination of Hadhrat Uthmaan (radhiAllaahu anhu), so they prepared to carry out this Shar`i duty by themselves.

Hadhrat Muaawiyah (radhiAllaahu anhu), who at that stage had not yet taken the Ba`it of Hadhrat Ali (radhiAllaahu anhu) was also demanding the revenge of the assassination of Hadhrat Uthmaan (radhiAllaahu anhu). Hadhrat Ali (radhiAllaahu anhu) told him to first take Ba`it to his Khilaafat and then he should present his complaint about the Qisaas for Hadhrat Uthmaan (radhiAllaahu anhu). He also though that Hadhrat Ali (radhiAllaahu anhu) was not prepared to take Qisaas. He also had this thought that since he and the people of Syria had not as yet taken Ba`it at the hands of Hadhrat Ali (radhiAllaahu anhu), they were within their rights to differ with him.

The battles and differences that took place between Hadhrat Ali (radhiAllaahu anhu) and Hadhrat Muaawiyah (radhiAllaahu anhu) was not for the Khilaafat, rather it was due to an error of judgement.

It is stated in Haashia Khiyaali, “Indeed Muaawiyah and his troop turned away from obeying and following Ali, notwithstanding their admittance and acknowledgement that he was the most worthy and rightful for Khilaafat for that era. Their difference with him was due to an error in judgement as they thought that he was not prepared and willing to take the Qisaas of Uthmaan (radhiAllaahu anhu).”

The Ahle Sunnat Wal Jamaat are unanimous on this fact that Hadhrat Ali (radhiAllaahu anhu) was on the right in these matters and that the others had made an error in their judgements. Although there is possibility of error and correctness in Ijtihaad, nevertheless, we say that Hadhrat Ali (radhiAllaahu anhu) was correct owing to the credence lent to this view which is found in the Ahaadith.

Which country are you from.......Saudi?

In Pakistan I have never met any sunni who thinks positively of muawiya, and by that I mean those who actually practice their religion and know their faith. I would argue the same is true in India, as I have never heard any of my friends speak about him the way you are doing. I have never even met such a sunni here in Canada. Just yesterday I had a talk with my arab culture professor on muawiya, and he is a very knowledgeable sunni.

i am pakistani and i have many indian muslim friends - i have never met any sunni who hates amir. muawiyah.

the only sunni guy i know who slightly hates muawiyah is sheikh nonwy from alhaqq.net - thats coz he thinks he is a sayyid and he hated the ummayads. even then he doesnt mentions amir muawiyahs name.

here is the link from yanabi.com

http://www.yanabi.com/forum/messageview.cf...yword1=muawiyah

"(Rasullilah :saw: was reported to have said) Allah, make him (Muawiya :ra: ) guided, a guider, and guide people through him." [Tirmidhi 3824, 3018]

I'm not looking for a debate, if you want to debate I'm not interested, a discussion is fine, but not a debate lest there be Fitnah or Sin involved. If you don't want to agree with this than don't, that is your choice.

I wanted to make out a few points in relation to the false propaganda that has been spread on many occassions regarding Caliph Muawiya ibn Abu Sufyan (ra); one of the scribes who would write the Revelation. I know some amongst the Ahl-ul-Sunnah dislike him, perhaps curse him as well, while some praise him. But we should be aware of any lies that are spread against a particular individual, even if you still dislike such a person.

Allah reminds us:

"O you who believe! Stand out firmly for Allâh as just witnesses; and let not the enmity and hatred of others make you avoid justice. Be just: that is nearer to piety; and fear Allâh. Verily, Allâh is Well-Acquainted with what you do." (Qur'an 5:8)

1. Muawiya's :ra: position was wrong in regards to Ali's :ra: decision not to punish those who assassinated Caliph Uthman :ra: this we know is a fact, however if we curse him for that that should then include Aisha :ra: , Talha :ra: and Zubair :ra: . Remember, Muawiya :ra: did not partake in the Siege of Basrah and the Battle of the Camel.

2. Though Muawiya :ra: did not recognize the Caliphate and defended himself at the Battle of Siffin (though seen as a wrong way to wage war in defense, perhaps out of desperation) did end up with a peace agreement with Ali :ra: and this resulted in the Kharijites to seperate from Ali :ra: and eventually the Revolt of the Kharijites under Muawiya's :ra: rule.

3. Muawiya :ra: in fact considered Ali :ra: above himself:

"Ali is better and more virtuous than me and I differ from him only in the matter of qisaas of Uthman and if he takes the qisaas of the blood of Uthman I will be the first of the people of Syria to make bayah to him" [al-Bidayatu wan-Nihaayah, vol 7 page 129,259]

In fact there is one occasion where Muawiya :ra: seeked advice from Ali :ra: under his government [eg. Muwatta of Imam Malik 36.19.18]

4. The Great Cursing Ali :ra: Lie: Some have this belief based on a Hadith that Muawiya :ra: used to curse Ali :ra: . However one has to read the Hadith in Sahih Muslim carefully, where Muawiya :ra: was ASKING "What prevents you from abusing Abu Turab". All it was was a question to Sa'd bin Abi Waqqas :ra:, and there was no response from Muawiya :ra: no flogging, no cursing of Sa'd :ra: for his decision.

Commentary from Imam Nawawi (ra) regarding the Hadith: "Mu'awiyah's saying does not declare that he ordered Sa'ad to insult Ali, but asked him for the reason that prevented him from insulting. As if Mu'awiyah was saying to him: "Have you refrained from insulting Ali as a result of piety, fear or anything like that? If it was as a result of piety and veneration to refrain from insulting, then you are rightful and if it were other than that, then there would be another answer."

5. The "May Allah not fill his belly." Lie: The Shiites like to use the hadith in Sahih Muslim whereby Rasullilah (salalahu alahi wasalam) called for Muawiya :ra: and found that he was busy eating, from this Rasllilah (salalahu alahi wasalam) replied "May Allah not fill his belly!". This is in fact what you might call an example in the English language of someone saying "Go break a leg", and in reality the meaning behind the Arabic of "May Allah not fill his belly" is "May your sustenance be without end".

6. Ali :ra: and Muawiya's :ra: groups were in fact MUSLIMS. This is proven by the Prophecy of Rasullilah :saw: as it states in Sahih Bukhari as Rasullilah :saw: spoke about Hassan ibn Ali :ra: : "This son of mine is a leader, and through him, Allah will bring together two huge groups of MUSLIMS." In fact this came true after Hasan :ra: united the Ummah after feeling betrayed by the Shiat'Ali by handing the Caliphate over to Muawiya :ra: (Shia texts confirm this as well in al Ihhtijaj vol. 2 page. 290-291, Abou Mansoour al-Tabarsi).

The Blame of Muawiya :ra: handing over the Caliphate to his son is one that is actually disputed. One historical account has it that when Muawiya :ra: died in fact it was his son who took power unlawfully, and it wasn't necessarily handed over to him. This of course is left for debate, and best for historians to analyze the situation thoroughly.

It is a known fact that under the rule of Muawiya :ra: did Muslims found a just rule for around twenty years according to Historians and is sometimes regarded as one of the best statesmen in Muslim History. Of course his son on the other hand...is another story.

Allah knows best.

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al-Hasan al-Basri said:

Muawiyah had four flaws, and any one of them would have been a serious

offense:

1. His appointment of trouble makers for this community so that he

stole its rule without consultation with its members, while there

was a remnant of the Companions and possessors of virtue among

them.

2. His appointment of his son as his successor after him, a drunkard

and a winebibber who wears silk and plays tunburs.

3. His claim about Ziyad (as his son), while the Messenger of God

(PBUH&HF) has said: 'The child belongs to the bed, and the

adulterer should be stoned.'

4. His killing of Hujr and his companions. Woe unto him twice for Hujr

and his companions.

Sunni references :

- History of al-Tabari, English version, The Events of Year 51 AH, v8, p154

- History of Ibn al-Athir, v3, p242

- al-Bidayah wa al-Nihayah, by Ibn Kathir, v8, p130 who mentions the first

crime as: "His fighting Ali."

- History of Ibn Kathir, v3, p242

- Khilafat Mulukiyat, Syed Abul Ala Maududi, pp 165-166

The very first head that was amputated from the body during the

Islamic period was of Ammar Ibn Yasir (ra), the famous companion of

the Messenger of Allah (PBUH&HF). Ahmad Ibn Hanbal in his Musnad

narrates a tradition as follows, that has also been mentioned in the

Tabaqat of Ibn Sa'd that:

In the Battle of Siffin, when the head of Ammar Yasir (ra) was

cut off and was taken to Muawiyah, two people were arguing over

it, each one claiming that he had killed Ammar.

Sunni references:

- Musnad Ahmad Ibn Hanbal, Traditions #6538, #6929 Printed in Dar al-

Maarif, Egypt 1952

- al-Tabaqat, by Ibn Sa'd, v3, p253

The same atrocity was committed against Muhammad Ibn Abi Bakr (ra) who

was the Governor for Imam Ali (as) in Egypt. When Muawiyah captured

Egypt, he was arrested and was killed. His dead body was placed in a

belly of a dead donkey and then was brutally burnt.

Sunni references:

- al-Isti'ab, by Ibn Abd al-Barr, v1, p235

- History of al-Tabari, v4, p79

- History of Ibn Kathir, v3, p180

- History of Ibn Khaldoon, v2, p182

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M4L are them quotes from sunni sites??

if so what site is it?

here is abit more from yanabi.com

Most importantly, the quote by Hasan Al-Basri has been falsely attributed by him. The quote came from Abu Makhaf, who has been confirmed by Ibn Hajar (ra) and At-Thahabi (ra) to be a liar. Al-Darqutnay, Ibn Mu'een, Marrah, Ibn Uday, Al-Aqeelay (may Allah be pleased with them) confirm that Abu Makhaf is not trustworthy/weak narrator.
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No sites.

Sunni references :

- History of al-Tabari, English version, The Events of Year 51 AH, v8, p154

- History of Ibn al-Athir, v3, p242

- al-Bidayah wa al-Nihayah, by Ibn Kathir, v8, p130 who mentions the first

crime as: "His fighting Ali."

- History of Ibn Kathir, v3, p242

- Khilafat Mulukiyat, Syed Abul Ala Maududi, pp 165-166

- Musnad Ahmad Ibn Hanbal, Traditions #6538, #6929 Printed in Dar al-

Maarif, Egypt 1952

- al-Tabaqat, by Ibn Sa'd, v3, p253

- al-Isti'ab, by Ibn Abd al-Barr, v1, p235

- History of al-Tabari, v4, p79

- History of Ibn Kathir, v3, p180

- History of Ibn Khaldoon, v2, p182

Are you blind?

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At Tabari and Kathir are both in my closet, yes. I don't have the rest. But who cares. These stories are confirmed, as facts, in our history. Now go ahead if you like to take Muawiyah as your hero. Your hero, who kills just people, puts them in donkeys and burns the donkey along with their body.

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Sister Aliya, isn't this guy supposed to be banned?

- Mansab

why am i gonna be banned. ive not broken any rules.

At Tabari and Kathir are both in my closet, yes. I don't have the rest. But who cares. These stories are confirmed, as facts, in our history. Now go ahead if you like to take Muawiyah as your hero. Your hero, who kills just people, puts them in donkeys and burns the donkey along with their body.

so where did you get your quotes from?? sunni or shia sites

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You want me to take yanabi.com seriously? The admins and mods don't even correct the members who come up with these garbage ideas?

Asalaam Alaikum

No one can deny the fact that Ameer Muawiya was a sahabi. This is in effect an accolade he gained whilst being in the presence and gatherings of the Blessed Prophet pbuh. However, one should not be afraid of distinguishing between right and wrong and being a sahabi without a doubt increases ones status but, it has to be understood that he cannot be classified as infallible or masoom. This means even the blessed sahaba were prone to making mistakes. Some more than others.

Also bro Fahid H Ameer Muawiya was the first King and not a Caliph. In terms of the Battle of Siffin he faught against Haqq. In regards to the Hazrat Uthman bin Affan problem, Maula Ali as was in a better position to judge and his reasons not to punish the assassinators would have concurred with the Sunnah and Quran. In the era of Ameer Muawiya wide spread cursing of Maula Ali as before Juma prayers was established as a religious norm. One of the biggest political blunder in Islamic History was also seen in the transfering of power to yazeed lanti.

Therefore, Ameer Muawiya did commit mistakes and some grave mistake however, one must remember he is a sahabi and no one can take that away from him. Not even 100 wali Allahs can overtake the status of a sahabi.

p.s. Bro Fahid H as a matter of developing my knowledge can you provide the verses that Ameer Muawiya wrote down and any book wherein this is claimed.

Ali is with Haq and Haq is with Ali

100 Waliullahs CAN NOT TAKE THE STATUS OF MUAWIYAH?

You want me to take yanabi.com seriously? The site that has a person like this on their moderating team?

dear brother fahid H sahib, i pray to Allah(S) that May God almighty raise you with hazrat Muawiya bin abi sufyaan on the day of judgement and May Allah(S) keep you in Hazrat Muawiya's presence in the hereafter. Ameen.

To shi'is.. bear in mind that the brother I quoted is actually making A SERIOUS DUA.

Now ofcourse this is not aimed at everyone on yanabi, because I know there are members there who have a profound knowledge.

so where did you get your quotes from?? sunni or shia sites

The quotes are from real, handmade, handwritten books. No sunni site will ever quote them, because it would destroy their whole system of belief, so OF COURSE it is from a shi'a site. But it doesn't CARE, because I can confirm these stories in my own books.

Wa Sallaam

Edited by M4L
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Tabari writes: (Salafi version of translation by the way)

"On his deathbed, Muawiya's two daughters would help him change his side and he said: 'You realize you are turning the man who used to turn the whole world while in his day'. Then he proceeded to say: 'I gathered wealth of this world from my youth to my elderly age. How can I not deserve the hellfire'. His daughters said:'But you will live'. To that he said: 'Alas you say that to a man who is in the grip of death and by it's arduous agonies knows that you only wish, being my daughters'."

When Muawiya himself is saying that he deserves hellfire, and that from a Sunni book known for it's various injustices in translation, what more can you and I say?

Edited by Abu Dujana
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Sister Aliya, isn't this guy supposed to be banned?

- Mansab

asalaamu aleikom

i beleive that he was banned but came back under different name.....

btw,,, i think its great that you all actally ban those who are rude!!!!!!!!

ma3salaama

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listen

i dont see why peple are calling for me to be banned unless if they are bitter. I have not broken any rules and i have read them.

now we are not debating the virtues of muawiyah - if you re read the thread you will now realise that we are debating whether sunnis love muawiyah. the shias have said sunnis hate muawiyah, however i have disproved this with quoting from 2 other sunni forums to prove that sunnis love muawiyah.

the reason is coz he was a sahabi - and in sunni islam the sahabah were the best of muslims. hence the lowest sahabi is still better than the 4 sunni imams, the last 9 shia imams, imam ghazzali etc etc etc.

i think that i have proved that i am correct on this issue.

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