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In the Name of God بسم الله

Hassan Nasrallah's Message To His Men(english Sub)

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A true soldier of Imam Mahdi(may god hasten his return). This guy(may god reward him the highest of positions in this world and the next) never stops to amaze me.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cLtPWIvYkrg

The Lebanese hezbollah are the pride of all the shia. Mashallah, we have alot to learn from them.

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A true soldier of Imam Mahdi(may god hasten his return). This guy(may god reward him the highest of positions in this world and the next) never stops to amaze me.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cLtPWIvYkrg

The Lebanese hezbollah are the pride of all the shia. Mashallah, we have alot to learn from them.

(salam)

Thanks for the psot.. the Lebanese resistance is really inspiring mashAllah..

I am still trying to form an opinion on the Hizb though.. coz I dont want to get into one sided ghulat/extrme veneration without being absolutely sure..

am reading up some books on their history right now.. coz I admire the resistance but have also heard of the dark side.. which maybe propaganda for all I know..sometimes I feel like a fool sitting on the sidelines.. and sometimes I feel like I nEED to know the truth before jumping to a conclusion.

but thanks for the post anways..

Peace!

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Salaam

Sister try to research about their founder I think his name was Sheik Tusi or somthing like that and find out why he left the organistaion and started a new one because according to him Hezbollah has changed and sold out from its original values and aim. Originally it was set up to Establish Islam in the region and further spread Darul Islam from Iran to Lebonan but now it is taking part in the same system which it came to overthrow and that to some seems a bit odd. Obviousally there is no doubt that the ressiatnce is Islamic but the aoms of the group seem to have changed.

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Sorry the name was Sheikh Subhi al-Tufayli

Sheikh Subhi al-Tufayli is a former secretary-general of Hezbollah.Tufayli was an Islamist ideologue and close follower of Grand Ayatollah Ruhollah Khomeini.

Al-Tufayli spent nine years studying theology in the holy city of al-Najaf, Iraq where he met and was influenced by other Islamist clerics and by the teachings of the Ayatollah Khomeini. Returning to Lebanon, he joined with Abbas al-Musawi to help found the Hezbollah movement/militia in the Beqaa Valley in 1982. Beqaa is one of Hezbollah's three main regions of support in Lebanon.

He was the spokesman for Hezbollah between 1985 and 1989, and then first Secretary-General of Hezbollah from 1989 until 1991. In 1992 he was replaced by Sheikh Abbas al-Musawi when Hezbollah decided to participate in national elections Tufaili opposed. He either quit or was expelled from Hezbollah in 1992. Tufaili is now rumored to lead the splinter group Ansar Allah, which is held responsible for attacks in Lebanon, Panama, and Argentina. He has been backed by Syria as a means of challenging Hezbollah leader Nasrallah, who has remained inflexible to Syrian demands

Tufaili left the movement in 1992 in protest over Hezbollah's participation in the parliamentary elections and its "moderation" toward the Lebanese state. [9] Since then he has been active in fighting Hezbollah and the Lebanese government.

In July 1997 he organized protest against government which has been called "hunger revolution". [10] Tufeili said it is "completely unacceptable that a human being could be humiliated because of poverty or because they were in need."[11]

His breakaway group is known as the "Revolution of the Hungry" (Thawrat al-Jiya), although his support base is largely limited to the villages of Brital and Tarayya.[12]

He is wanted by the Lebanese government for leading a revolution against the country, but has not been arrested.[13]

In January 1998 he attempted with his militia to occupy a Hezbollah religious school and touched off a violent confrontation with the Lebanese army. Lebanese authorities issued a warrant for Tufaili's arrest, while Lebanese army units conducted a massive sweep of the Beqaa. According to Lebanon's army statement in 1998[3]:

"Following the decision of the military prosecutor to order the arrest of Sheikh Sobhi Tufaili and his supporters on charges of forming armed groups, endangering national security and killing soldiers and civilians, the army took control of Sheikh Tufaili's house."

In February 1998 Lebanese troops surrounded a village looking for a Tufaili after two days of clashes that left eight people dead.[14] Tufaili and around 100 of his fighters were allowed to escape to his hometown of Britel when the head of Syrian military intelligence in Baalbeck, Col. Ali Safi, stepped in and forced advancing Lebanese army units to halt.[15]

In April 1999, Tufaili's forces overran a Hezbollah arms depot in the village of Nabichit, near Baalbeck, seizing large numbers of machine-guns, rocket-launchers and other military equipment.[16][17]

He has stated the Hassan Nasrallah implements the agenda of Ali Khamenei of the Islamic Republic of Iran.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Subhi_al-Tufayli

He was hardline and never moderated but stuck to Islamic principles whereas Hezbollah never.

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The ouster of Tufaili from Hezbollah is probably one of the most important events that helped open the path for Hezbollah to evolve as an organization. Tufaili's style of leadership was very narrow minded. He made alot of enemies in Lebanon very quickly and very early on, and instead of unifying Hezbollah as an organization, he created splinters and rivalries within it. Furthermore, his leadership style alienated people within Hezbollah areas, who began to fear that the organization was heading down a path that didn't pursue their interests.

He didn't give any credence to the social, political, economic, millitary, cultural, or denominational factors within the country, and pursued a purely ideological strategy what was completely detached from reality. Thankfully, many within Hezbollah realized this early on, and were successfully able to elect Shaheed Abbass al Musawi as Secretary General.

Had Tufaili continued to be Secretary General of Hezbollah, the organization would have suffered a fate simular to all of the civil war era militias, and would not exist today. He was leading it down a path of isolation and disaster.

Today, he has resorted to some very childish and politically immature tactics in efforts to demonize Hezbollah. He has made appearances on Hariri and Lebanese-Forces television stations, and attacked the personal character and integrity of SHN as a person, as well as Hezbollah as an organization, accusing them of some of the very things Israel and the US accuse them of. He has also accused Hezbollah of seeking to protect Israel and of blasphemy because they took part in the country's elections.

His actions have lead him to be completely isolated in Lebanon today. Where he still had a few hundred supporters at one point, today he has been completely abandoned by everyone, even those who stood with him before as even they have realized that his personal vedettas and spitefullness are more of drivers for him than even his narrow minded ideological outlook.

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Staying true to a cause is not narrow mindedness and for more discussion on wether or not it is Islamically permissable to participate in an unislamic system there are numerous threads in the general politics sub forum which you can participate in. You named many factors such as military, social, economical e.t.c but does Hezbollah currently use the Islamic aqeedah to solve all those issues or does it use a unislamic system for governing and operating. Note that I do support the ressistance but I also support Tufaili and his attempts to stay true to the Islamic ideology.

Edited by UndercoverBrother
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Staying true to a cause is not narrow mindedness and for more discussion on wether or not it is Islamically permissable to participate in an unislamic system there are numerous threads in the general politics sub forum which you can participate in. You named many factors such as military, social, economical e.t.c but does Hezbollah currently use the Islamic aqeedah to solve all those issues or does it use a unislamic system for governing and operating. Note that I do support the ressistance but I also support Tufaili and his attempts to stay true to the Islamic ideology.

Tufaili did not leave Hezbollah because he wanted to stay true to a cause. He left Hezbollah because he lost the power within the organization that he had enjoyed. He had warned all the members in the Shura council that if he was not re-elected as Secretary General, he would leave the organization. Obviously, he was after personal power more than he was concerned with the cause, because if this wasn't the case he would have not acted towards everyone in such a blunt and arrogant manner (as he did towards everyone outside of Hezbollah as well, which is why he made so many enemies and continues to do so) and would have stayed behind to try and change things.

Tufaili is a person who has not played a constructive role towards the cause. His entire history is marred with blunt, narrow minded, devisive, extremely ideological and destructive behavior.

As for staying true to the cause, Hezbollah's conception as an organization wasn't intended to spur the creation an Islamic state in Lebanon. The ultimate goal isn't an Islamic state. The whole notion of governance is but a means, intended to acheive a goal. The ultimate goal is social, economic, and political justice -- as well as security. And Hezbollah has chosen the most sound path towards acheiving these goals given the internal factors within Lebanon.

This problem with Tufaili is that his very understanding of these essential notions were extremely lacking, and even though, he wasn't willing to even consider any alternative. He witnessed the success of the Islamic revolution in Iran, which inspired and continues to inspire all Shias within Lebnaon not only him, but he assumed -- without thinking twice -- that the same was acheivable in Lebanon. The situation in Lebanon resembles nothing like the situation in Iran. Any effort to create an Islamic state would cause perpetual civil war and lead Shias into marginalization, loss of religous freedoms, political power, social freedoms, economic and millitary security, etc. All of the ultimate goals would be sacrificed because a means has been confused with the goal. This is backwards thinking and represents a poverty of thought. And the danger of such a thinking is greatly expounded considering the occupation of the Zionist regime, whose dominance in Lebanon thrived largely on internal strife and the state of chaos within the country.

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Tufaili condemed hezbollah for taking part in the unislamic politicol process, now I don't want to discuss whether it was the right decision based on what you perceive to be the situation but whether it was Islamically permisable or not. Leaving Tufaili 's personality behind his ideals were Islamic and true to the cause, you tell me how can you Implement a new Islamic system whilst participating in the current unilsmaic one. You are running and keeping alive the thing you set out to destroy and replace he was well known for being hard line and radical but thats what is needed when it comes to Islam we cannot have soft moderates giving in to popular demand.

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Tufaili did not leave Hezbollah because he wanted to stay true to a cause. He left Hezbollah because he lost the power within the organization that he had enjoyed. He had warned all the members in the Shura council that if he was not re-elected as Secretary General, he would leave the organization. Obviously, he was after personal power more than he was concerned with the cause, because if this wasn't the case he would have not acted towards everyone in such a blunt and arrogant manner (as he did towards everyone outside of Hezbollah as well, which is why he made so many enemies and continues to do so) and would have stayed behind to try and change things.

Tufaili is a person who has not played a constructive role towards the cause. His entire history is marred with blunt, narrow minded, devisive, extremely ideological and destructive behavior.

As for staying true to the cause, Hezbollah's conception as an organization wasn't intended to spur the creation an Islamic state in Lebanon. The ultimate goal isn't an Islamic state. The whole notion of governance is but a means, intended to acheive a goal. The ultimate goal is social, economic, and political justice -- as well as security. And Hezbollah has chosen the most sound path towards acheiving these goals given the internal factors within Lebanon.

This problem with Tufaili is that his very understanding of these essential notions were extremely lacking, and even though, he wasn't willing to even consider any alternative. He witnessed the success of the Islamic revolution in Iran, which inspired and continues to inspire all Shias within Lebnaon not only him, but he assumed -- without thinking twice -- that the same was acheivable in Lebanon. The situation in Lebanon resembles nothing like the situation in Iran. Any effort to create an Islamic state would cause perpetual civil war and lead Shias into marginalization, loss of religous freedoms, political power, social freedoms, economic and millitary security, etc. All of the ultimate goals would be sacrificed because a means has been confused with the goal. This is backwards thinking and represents a poverty of thought. And the danger of such a thinking is greatly expounded considering the occupation of the Zionist regime, whose dominance in Lebanon thrived largely on internal strife and the state of chaos within the country.

(salam)

Well said.. I am reading a couple of bios right now.. will get bk on them soon..

my journalist's nose at it..:)

Peace!

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Tufaili condemed hezbollah for taking part in the unislamic politicol process, now I don't want to discuss whether it was the right decision based on what you perceive to be the situation but whether it was Islamically permisable or not. Leaving Tufaili 's personality behind his ideals were Islamic and true to the cause, you tell me how can you Implement a new Islamic system whilst participating in the current unilsmaic one. You are running and keeping alive the thing you set out to destroy and replace he was well known for being hard line and radical but thats what is needed when it comes to Islam we cannot have soft moderates giving in to popular demand.

Salaam,

I don't think Hizbullah is moderate as such, but they do have to look at the reality of their situation. At the same time, they have attempted to implement Islamic principles in various areas - including social economic and cultural - this in a place like Lebanon is in itself an important achievement. However, I do agree with you that Hizbullah's participation in what is inherently a colonial set up is fruitless, and can end up severely diluting Hizbullah's effectiveness in these areas (the colonial powers set up the present sectarian system in Lebanon, so that it would be a Christian outpost in the mid-east - the demographic and political change of-course has ended that project).

Of-course, any Islamic movement has to take into consideration ground realities - but there is a difference between taking reality into consideration, and giving credibility to the status quo, and thus perpetuating that status quo. If Hizbullah goes too far (and, i think in some cases it might have) in not recognizing the political bankruptcy of the Lebanon's sectarian set up, then it will fail to achieve its goals.

The question really is (and there are no easy answers to this, because this is a question of strategy and tactics) how can Hizbullah aid in the transformation of Lebanon away from sectarianism, without such moves resulting in (re)igniting a civil war - and also how to not participate in the present set up - whose logical conclusion can also be yet another civil war (a sectarian set up really cannot last in "peace" for very long - it will inevitably lead to civil war).

This is where there is a responsibility to spell out an Islamic view that goes beyond and transcends the notions of sectarian tribalism that plagues so much of the world -and esp. Muslims. (How to do that is an important question, and needs further serious thought, of-course).

Edited by skylight1
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Tufaili condemed hezbollah for taking part in the unislamic politicol process, now I don't want to discuss whether it was the right decision based on what you perceive to be the situation but whether it was Islamically permisable or not. Leaving Tufaili 's personality behind his ideals were Islamic and true to the cause, you tell me how can you Implement a new Islamic system whilst participating in the current unilsmaic one. You are running and keeping alive the thing you set out to destroy and replace he was well known for being hard line and radical but thats what is needed when it comes to Islam we cannot have soft moderates giving in to popular demand.

He'd probably condemn Imam Hasan for forming a treaty with Muawiya, or the Prophet for forming a treaty with the mushrikeen of Mecca. No one needs extremists thank you very much, we aren't living in cloud cookoo land, we are living in the real world, and in the real world, only about 40% of Lebanon is Shia, you have to deal with the rest on common terms. Hezbollah has done that astonishingly well. They are the single most succesful Islamic organisation I can think of in contemporary history.

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Salaam,

I don't think Hizbullah is moderate as such, but they do have to look at the reality of their situation. At the same time, they have attempted to implement Islamic principles in various areas - including social economic and cultural - this in a place like Lebanon is in itself an important achievement. However, I do agree with you that Hizbullah's participation in what is inherently a colonial set up is fruitless, and can end up severely diluting Hizbullah's effectiveness in these areas (the colonial powers set up the present sectarian system in Lebanon, so that it would be a Christian outpost in the mid-east - the demographic and political change of-course has ended that project).

Of-course, any Islamic movement has to take into consideration ground realities - but there is a difference between taking reality into consideration, and giving credibility to the status quo, and thus perpetuating that status quo. If Hizbullah goes too far (and, i think in some cases it might have) in not recognizing the political bankruptcy of the Lebanon's sectarian set up, then it will fail to achieve its goals.

The question really is (and there are no easy answers to this, because this is a question of strategy and tactics) how can Hizbullah aid in the transformation of Lebanon away from sectarianism, without such moves resulting in (re)igniting a civil war - and also how to not participate in the present set up - whose logical conclusion can also be yet another civil war (a sectarian set up really cannot last in "peace" for very long - it will inevitably lead to civil war).

This is where there is a responsibility to spell out an Islamic view that goes beyond and transcends the notions of sectarian tribalism that plagues so much of the world -and esp. Muslims. (How to do that is an important question, and needs further serious thought, of-course).

(salam)

Well said.. thats the whole purpose of Islam.. to UNify differences without distorting them.. very refreshing to hear your views.

Peace!

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Salaam,

I don't think Hizbullah is moderate as such, but they do have to look at the reality of their situation. At the same time, they have attempted to implement Islamic principles in various areas - including social economic and cultural - this in a place like Lebanon is in itself an important achievement. However, I do agree with you that Hizbullah's participation in what is inherently a colonial set up is fruitless, and can end up severely diluting Hizbullah's effectiveness in these areas (the colonial powers set up the present sectarian system in Lebanon, so that it would be a Christian outpost in the mid-east - the demographic and political change of-course has ended that project).

Of-course, any Islamic movement has to take into consideration ground realities - but there is a difference between taking reality into consideration, and giving credibility to the status quo, and thus perpetuating that status quo. If Hizbullah goes too far (and, i think in some cases it might have) in not recognizing the political bankruptcy of the Lebanon's sectarian set up, then it will fail to achieve its goals.

The question really is (and there are no easy answers to this, because this is a question of strategy and tactics) how can Hizbullah aid in the transformation of Lebanon away from sectarianism, without such moves resulting in (re)igniting a civil war - and also how to not participate in the present set up - whose logical conclusion can also be yet another civil war (a sectarian set up really cannot last in "peace" for very long - it will inevitably lead to civil war).

This is where there is a responsibility to spell out an Islamic view that goes beyond and transcends the notions of sectarian tribalism that plagues so much of the world -and esp. Muslims. (How to do that is an important question, and needs further serious thought, of-course).

bro,,,you do not know what your talking about,,,this is utter nonesense...

I lived where they live

I come from THE SAME AREA...

your first post is utter ,,,ignorance

how dare you voice an opinion that has not even been adopted by the west to attack them??

brother ,,

go to suther lebanon now

or dahiya

and see if someon tries to impliment anything on you

just bec they built more osques,,,more housaaniyat ,,,and their own " hospitals that only allaows femailes in patinets rooms)

does not mean they are implimenting anything

we have houses,,building and family ,,

no one forces or implimenst anything on you,

they have their won school,,,

they shout and screeam yaaa shoussainnn,,,we will never forget you and they want peopel to have soem dignity as to fight what is wrong,

these arethemen of hizb

bec their women weit veiles and practice muslim ( as all msulims should) sharia..

no one will beat you on the head if you chose to go the other way.

they live their life ,,and apply their belifes in their community ,,they do not oem to you,,

people goto them

now where the heck did you get you idea from???

please do not tel me cnn :(

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The point the brother was trying to make was that Hezbollah now have decided to take part and knowingly or unkowingly have accepted the unislamic system of government which they were formed to destroy and replace.

If your against Hizbullah then your against the only means within the last decade which allowsed shias to walk proud

No one is attacking Hezbollah infact many times the people rasing the issues have stated they support the ressistance but the dispute or disagreement is with the Ideology and staying true to the original goal of the Hizb, please re-read the full thread to understand what we are saying.

Edited by UndercoverBrother
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The point the brother was trying to make was that Hezbollah now have decided to take part and knowingly or unkowingly have accepted the unislamic system of government which they were formed to destroy and replace.

No one is attacking Hezbollah infact many times the people rasing the issues have stated they support the ressistance but the dispute or disagreement is with the Ideology and staying true to the original goal of the Hizb, please re-read the full thread to understand what we are saying.

ohh and was not imam ali sa ,,a great fighter for justice and against hypocracy and stealing people money ?

so if lebanon is rueld by killers (ja3ja3_ and theives al signora ( 42 billion dollars vanished in his kingdoms rein )

so you think true islam is only holdinga shot gon and shooting at oprresors and fighting for land?

for years they have been jugded bec they " let thives rule the country and they stayed quiet)

but they had their hands full rescuing the southern part from the animals that were ruling it .

they did the best to help people who were robbed and it is all over in lebanon their aid society ,,only those who lived there woudl knwo that they have banks,,orphanages,,and help pay shcooling and books for poor.

but YOU DO NTO KNOW THAT ,,you sit on you high heels and bark out what you knwo nothing off.

42 billions have diaapeared,,and peopel do not have money to buy a bag of bread that costs 2$ ,,it used to be 1$.

and you say they went into politics???

why not use your head and see that they were begged by their own to do something

no elextricity in thsi cold weather no watre

no gaz

man where do you live,,do you wacvth th enews?

do you knwo that there are aculayy sunni out there on teh street now on strike bec they can not afford gaz??

sunni ,chriostain shia..

alll when the signora and al hariri have 4 or 6 houses to keep warm in and 3 or 5 cars ,,

do not consider me a shia

I just called my cousin ,,she has a baby girl ,,here husband works for the goverment ,,he has not been payed in the last 3 months,,and baby food for their 8 montsh old is way over their heads..

my sisters house is all in the dark and cold NO ELECTIRCITY.

and you argue why hizb fight in politics?and argue in senates?

what are they going to do ,,hold their guns and shoot the goverment to get what they want ?

WAKE UP .

and feel the cold.

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but YOU DO NTO KNOW THAT ,,you sit on you high heels and bark out what you knwo nothing off.

I think emotion needs to be left aside here, no one is saying that muslims are not going through pain and suffering but what was the root cause to this suffereing and pain. Capitalism is what is holding the ummah back and we need Islam to liberate the ummah and by taking part in Capitalism you make further problems. Mulsims don't only sufer in Lebonan but all over the world and the aid is provided mujahideen are provided and even on the streets of London protests are held but has the situation changed in the last 20-30 years for muslims if it has then you are right and if it hasn't i rest my case, we need to revive Islam first and foremost.

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I think emotion needs to be left aside here, no one is saying that muslims are not going through pain and suffering but what was the root cause to this suffereing and pain. Capitalism is what is holding the ummah back and we need Islam to liberate the ummah and by taking part in Capitalism you make further problems. Mulsims don't only sufer in Lebonan but all over the world and the aid is provided mujahideen are provided and even on the streets of London protests are held but has the situation changed in the last 20-30 years for muslims if it has then you are right and if it hasn't i rest my case, we need to revive Islam first and foremost.

exactly. Just because you're living tough, doesn't mean you're living wrong! Imam Ali(a.s) said: "The ummah will always live under harsh circumstances if they follow us" And that is true, want to live halal?? Expect to be in a constant fight. With government, with neighbors, with outside forces, with enemies in general and last but not least with yourself(Jihad Akbar).

Imam Khomeini said it best: "We do not care about results, we care about our responsibility to Allah"

Just like what Imam Hussein did.

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Just because one's mind is dry does not mean those thoughts, which they fail to appreciate, are lacking in moisture. What is this "Islamic Ideology" you speak of?? From who does it come? Hamas?? This is neither the ideology of Imam Khomeini nor Ahle Bait (as). This is the thought--or lack thereof--of certain dull minds. Shall we reduce the pre-eternal most sublime divine wisdom of the Holy Infallibles into some 'political ideology' with laughable spiritual/religious gift wrappings?? This is absurd how certain over-zealous, and mostly uneducated, Shiites think they know better about when to go forward and backward better than those knowledgeable about their theater of operation. May God save us from these mischief of these illiterate and ignorant people.

I think emotion needs to be left aside here, no one is saying that muslims are not going through pain and suffering but what was the root cause to this suffereing and pain. Capitalism is what is holding the ummah back and we need Islam to liberate the ummah and by taking part in Capitalism you make further problems. Mulsims don't only sufer in Lebonan but all over the world and the aid is provided mujahideen are provided and even on the streets of London protests are held but has the situation changed in the last 20-30 years for muslims if it has then you are right and if it hasn't i rest my case, we need to revive Islam first and foremost.

In order to do that, you would have to educate yourself first. Then, think of others.

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In order to do that, you would have to educate yourself first. Then, think of others.

In what exactly ? you dont know me and I have never claimed to have knowledge or called myself well educated. If people acyually read the full thread instead of just the last few posts maybe they wouldn't jump to conclusions and baring in mind the person who I am defending/siding with is the former secretery general of Hezbollah doesn't that mean I support Hezbollah. The Ideology I speak of is the one he spoke of first then i affirmed it and tried my best which is limited knowledge to portray to a sister Ifatima who wanted to learn about Hezbollah.

From who does it come? Hamas??

I dont know where you got that from I think you need to re read the thread Ayatollah Cyan_Garamond.

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Just because one's mind is dry does not mean those thoughts, which they fail to appreciate, are lacking in moisture. What is this "Islamic Ideology" you speak of?? From who does it come? Hamas?? This is neither the ideology of Imam Khomeini nor Ahle Bait . This is the thought--or lack thereof--of certain dull minds. Shall we reduce the pre-eternal most sublime divine wisdom of the Holy Infallibles into some 'political ideology' with laughable spiritual/religious gift wrappings?? This is absurd how certain over-zealous, and mostly uneducated, Shiites think they know better about when to go forward and backward better than those knowledgeable about their theater of operation. May God save us from these mischief of these illiterate and ignorant people.

Leaving perosnal attacks aside I have gone through the thread for the sake of brother Cyan Graramond and found a comment maybe if he read then he would undertsand my position.

The point the brother was trying to make was that Hezbollah now have decided to take part and knowingly or unkowingly have accepted the unislamic system of government which they were formed to destroy and replace.

No one is attacking Hezbollah infact many times the people rasing the issues have stated they support the ressistance but the dispute or disagreement is with the Ideology and staying true to the original goal of the Hizb, please re-read the full thread to understand what we are saying.

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I think Cyan clarified his ideology here:

"Shall we reduce the pre-eternal most sublime divine wisdom of the Holy Infallibles into some 'political ideology' with laughable spiritual/religious gift wrappings?? "

There are number of shias who go about preaching to those who attempt to apply the teachings of Islam in the contemporary context, including resisting imperialism, and neo-colonial capitalism - what Cyan says above. What is interesting about Cyan is that he even brings in Imam Khomeini to justify his statement.

Islam is very much of an ideology - a religious ideology or framework that when implemented can and has defeated imperialism. Infact, it is not possible to move forward without a framework - those who suggest that Islam has nothing to do with politics, or with a political ideology would like to see Muslims move backwards and just remain in "sufi" shrines (khanaqa islam).

Edited by skylight1
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^^^The thing is brother everyone has an opinion and InshAllah the stronger ideas will always prevail with the daleel but personal attacks are somthing which need to be stomped out I mean a few threads about these themes of Islamic Ideology have turned ugly and particularly by the people who are arguing against the promoters of these ideas.

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^^^The thing is brother everyone has an opinion and InshAllah the stronger ideas will always prevail with the daleel but personal attacks are somthing which need to be stomped out I mean a few threads about these themes of Islamic Ideology have turned ugly and particularly by the people who are arguing against the promoters of these ideas.

(salam)

OK Ppl.. Peace!

This is wot a I love about SC.. evreryone's so opinionated..:) in a good way and has such strong views..

its doesnt take anything to start a headted debate.

IN Bengal/ Bangladesh they called 'Adda'..

get 2 Bongs togther and u have a political debate.. three you have a conference and four.. you have a naxalite/ political guerilla parry! :angel:

Peace!

Edited by lfatima
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I think emotion needs to be left aside here, no one is saying that muslims are not going through pain and suffering but what was the root cause to this suffereing and pain. Capitalism is what is holding the ummah back and we need Islam to liberate the ummah and by taking part in Capitalism you make further problems. Mulsims don't only sufer in Lebonan but all over the world and the aid is provided mujahideen are provided and even on the streets of London protests are held but has the situation changed in the last 20-30 years for muslims if it has then you are right and if it hasn't i rest my case, we need to revive Islam first and foremost.

yes but dear bro,,,,

Allah sawt did not only ask us to do jihad and figh

proof look at imam ali sa,,,al hassan sa and the 10 imams,,,

not all held thier guns and took the jihad part to fight whais wrong,

read najgh al balaghah,,,for imam ali,,sa,,,

jihad is not only war on oprression

jihad is education on ignorance

jihad is a good word to someone who needs it or a good deed,,like helping a blind cross a street.

jihad is fighting poverty with knowledge

jihad is standing up for what is wrong ,,,not by holding guns to thier heads,,,,but some poeple do it thru marches,,,stires

writting exposing the stale stinch...

bro,,,I lived in leb 7 yrs ago.

my goverment did not do anything for me,,except steal money thru elec,,water,,cell phones,,

a leading christian leader,,,( not orange color:),,in financesaid 43 billion dollors we got in aid for july war are gone

man lebanon is less that 5million now,,,

1000 $ to a family would still leave billions for thievs..

yet poeple have no elect??????????

water bill doubled?(ask sunni who live downtown beirut,,not just shia)

my sister said parsely is 1.50$ used to be 0.50$,,funny,,,everything is expensive,,,and the gov is doing nothing.

if I todl you the standards of leaving is tanznani,a country out of this world,,and told you people went on strike ,,you'd node your head.

but if it is in a country where there are shia major opposition joined by some suni and christ

and that shia opposition is also the only one in the universe who defeated zionist and fighting them along with some gps in oocupied palest

people say they shoudl not be in politics..

if men who gave their blood,lives family and freedom ,to this country have no right to fight thives that rules it from inside?

who does????

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I think Cyan clarified his ideology here:

"Shall we reduce the pre-eternal most sublime divine wisdom of the Holy Infallibles into some 'political ideology' with laughable spiritual/religious gift wrappings?? "

There are number of shias who go about preaching to those who attempt to apply the teachings of Islam in the contemporary context, including resisting imperialism, and neo-colonial capitalism - what Cyan says above. What is interesting about Cyan is that he even brings in Imam Khomeini to justify his statement.

Islam is very much of an ideology - a religious ideology or framework that when implemented can and has defeated imperialism. Infact, it is not possible to move forward without a framework - those who suggest that Islam has nothing to do with politics, or with a political ideology would like to see Muslims move backwards and just remain in "sufi" shrines (khanaqa islam).

and obviously you are not a muslim since you do not know what you are talking about.

you know nill on the infallibles,,and you obviously have never felt the need to rise and cry out when you see palest kid shot 14 times,,,or a lebanease home blown up,,

or a "muslim goverment" who wants to step over those fighting isreal to further their greedy ,,soon to be in hell,,,,bellies.

bro,,,,I advice you to go and meditate on islam,,,

no really ,,,if islam is an ideology to be followed on ideological basses,,then you might as well creat a free country that allows you to marry your sister,,,kill your brother bec he stole to feed himself,,,ohh and yes,,,kill all the orphanes and poor,,since nothing but your good hearted nature if incllined goos feed them.

islam gave us science

islam gave us economy

islam gave us human rights

islam gave us biology

islam gave us human nature

and islam gave you ,,your dignity,,if you can really see it.

it is all their in koran,,,and al el biet teachings...

go learn bro,,,it is such a waste when someon ignorant on islam ,,presumes that islam is an ideology to be refred to,,,not to be lived and applied in your every day living.

Allah created you for a reason,,,may Allah sawt help YOU FIND it1 :wacko:

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and obviously you are not a muslim since you do not know what you are talking about.

you know nill on the infallibles

,,and you obviously have never felt the need to rise and cry out when you see palest kid shot 14 times,,,or a lebanease home blown up,,

or a "muslim goverment" who wants to step over those fighting isreal to further their greedy ,,soon to be in hell,,,,bellies.

bro,,,,I advice you to go and meditate on islam,,,

no really ,,,if islam is an ideology to be followed on ideological basses,,then you might as well creat a free country that allows you to marry your sister,,,kill your brother bec he stole to feed himself,,,ohh and yes,,,kill all the orphanes and poor,,since nothing but your good hearted nature if incllined goos feed them.

islam gave us science

islam gave us economy

islam gave us human rights

islam gave us biology

islam gave us human nature

and islam gave you ,,your dignity,,if you can really see it.

it is all their in koran,,,and al el biet teachings...

go learn bro,,,it is such a waste when someon ignorant on islam ,,presumes that islam is an ideology to be refred to,,,not to be lived and applied in your every day living.

Allah created you for a reason,,,may Allah sawt help YOU FIND it1 :wacko:

(salam)

First of all, please dont judge whethere anyone is Muslim or not. Only Allah SWT has that right.

You are not a maraja or aalim and even they dont behave like Christian crusaders and the Church which used to 'excommunicate' ppl at the drop of a hat.

You say "there is gravity" - " Apostate! out of christianity!'

read the stories of hat happened to hundreds of scientists in medieval Eruope.

I get frightened when I hear Muslims talking like Middle age christians.

Also, I dont see wots anti-Islamic about wot the brother said.

Yes Islam is a complete way of life.. a faith...a belief IE = Imaan with a framework..

He never said its 'just another political school of thought'. I DONT see that anywhere in his comments.

And you jump the gun and start calling someone 'anti Muslim'.

This tendency really distrubs me on SC.

There are hundreds of maraje in the world today...and they all ( with a few exceptions) are genuine aalims..I dont see anyone of calling each other names like this. Syed Sistani always had a diff. of opinion about the political process from Ayt KHomeini..did they call each names ( nauzubillah) or non Muslims??

Personally speaking non Muslims also have a right to exist in this world.

Thast why we are different from the Nazi camps of Auschwitz- and a billion ppl follow this Deen.

(NOt every non Muslim is an infidel/ idol worshipper; please read the definition of a disbeliever from a NOn Muslim- very different). are we more knowlegabe than Allah SWT and His Nabi ( nauzbillah)- who NEVER called people anything like this???

Btw, this kind of extremist tendency in Muslims and its subsequent wiping out is one of the signs of the Zahoor e Imam AJF

YOu made some good points but your name calling and insults just left a bad taste.. it takes away the credibility of wot you are saying bro.. Please be a lil less emotional when u r makeing a point..

the Imams AS want calm and not jazbaati followers making extrme/ ghulat statements for such trivial things.

Hope you will take this email in the spirit with which it was intended.

Iltemas e Dua!

Edited by lfatima
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I think Cyan clarified his ideology here:

"Shall we reduce the pre-eternal most sublime divine wisdom of the Holy Infallibles into some 'political ideology' with laughable spiritual/religious gift wrappings?? "

There are number of shias who go about preaching to those who attempt to apply the teachings of Islam in the contemporary context, including resisting imperialism, and neo-colonial capitalism - what Cyan says above. What is interesting about Cyan is that he even brings in Imam Khomeini to justify his statement.

The interesting thing about reactionary people like yourself and the other poster is that you believe you are the spokespersons of Imam Khomeini and Ayatollah Khamenei, and think you know what they were all about. What's even more ridiculous is that you believe you are so well versed in all matters 'Islam' that you can easily label anyone with or against it.

Islam is very much of an ideology - a religious ideology or framework that when implemented can and has defeated imperialism. Infact, it is not possible to move forward without a framework - those who suggest that Islam has nothing to do with politics, or with a political ideology would like to see Muslims move backwards and just remain in "sufi" shrines (khanaqa islam).

Ideology is limited in time and situational and contextual, as the word is commonly understood and used nowadays. Islam is, as I said, pre-eternal and sublime. It is beyond your feeble mind and beyond Palestine, Lebanon, Iran, etc. Furthermore, looking at the examples of the Imams and Prophets (as), there are many methods, means and ways of approaching various situations. It is not all about 'fighting imperialism'; that is only one thing, and in our times. Promoting good and striving against evil is far broader than that.

They thought Imams Sajjad, Baqer, Sadiq, etc. also to be 'quietists' and such. However, it was merely the most appropriate course of action, which cannot have been known to any but those Imams. Their relatives and certain supporters, who were very zealous, engaged in various uprisings, for better or worse.

However, in this article, Hezbollah is an Islamic freedom-fighting and resistance organization well attuned to their context and some arrogant blind Shiites criticize them for maneuvering in their own arena, as they know how to do best. This is beyond me. Why don't you do the forums a favor, and keep your ignorance to yourself?

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(salam)

First of all, please dont judge whethere anyone is Muslim or not. Only Allah SWT has that right.

You are not a maraja or aalim and even they dont behave like Christian crusaders and the Church which used to 'excommunicate' ppl at the drop of a hat.

You say "there is gravity" - " Apostate! out of christianity!'

read the stories of hat happened to hundreds of scientists in medieval Eruope.

I get frightened when I hear Muslims talking like Middle age christians.

Also, I dont see wots anti-Islamic about wot the brother said.

Yes Islam is a complete way of life.. a faith...a belief IE = Imaan with a framework..

He never said its 'just another political school of thought'. I DONT see that anywhere in his comments.

And you jump the gun and start calling someone 'anti Muslim'.

This tendency really distrubs me on SC.

There are hundreds of maraje in the world today...and they all ( with a few exceptions) are genuine aalims..I dont see anyone of calling each other names like this. Syed Sistani always had a diff. of opinion about the political process from Ayt KHomeini..did they call each names ( nauzubillah) or non Muslims??

Personally speaking non Muslims also have a right to exist in this world.

Thast why we are different from the Nazi camps of Auschwitz- and a billion ppl follow this Deen.

(NOt every non Muslim is an infidel/ idol worshipper; please read the definition of a disbeliever from a NOn Muslim- very different). are we more knowlegabe than Allah SWT and His Nabi ( nauzbillah)- who NEVER called people anything like this???

Btw, this kind of extremist tendency in Muslims and its subsequent wiping out is one of the signs of the Zahoor e Imam AJF

YOu made some good points but your name calling and insults just left a bad taste.. it takes away the credibility of wot you are saying bro.. Please be a lil less emotional when u r makeing a point..

the Imams AS want calm and not jazbaati followers making extrme/ ghulat statements for such trivial things.

Hope you will take this email in the spirit with which it was intended.

Iltemas e Dua!

ok sis or bro,,I do not knwo what you are yapping about bec I did not call anyoen names ,,,

all I have to reply to you is it seems you too need a heads up on islam ,,extrmisim and IDEOLOGY.

if you think you knwo so much about alims ,,( and I do bec I live between them and I am very close to some of them ),,WRITE AND ASK THEM WHAT THEY THINK ABOUT ISLAM BEING PRACTICED AS AN IDEOLOGY.

if you want to discuss this more so you can learn somthing open your own post and some of the good brothers and sisters here can help guide you.

I never said he was a sinner,,I said he NEEDS TO KNOW ABOUT ISLAM BEC ISLAM IS NOT AN IDEOLOGY ,,NOR IS IT EXTREMISM.

those who are extremists do not practice the true islam.

hint hint = if islam is an ideology then ,,WHO IS GOING TO FOLOW OUR MAHDI SA AND HOW IS HE GOING TO RULE IF ALL YOU BELIVE IN IS ideology ???????

get it?

Ok guys, this has gone far enough. No more off-topic posts.

dear bro,,I deeply apologize you are 100% right ,,,it went way off and I seem to let some of what the brothers and sisters here lead me off themain topic.

I do not know why I feel and some people here too ,,feel that every time we go into a topic and hizb we NEED to defend them and what they stand for!!!!!

I was merely replying to this post :

Shall we reduce the pre-eternal most sublime divine wisdom of the Holy Infallibles into some 'political ideology' with laughable spiritual/religious gift wrappings??

which hist on hizb own ideology and what they follow and believe in.

for all ,,these men come from school of karablah and al houssain saa..

I saw them bleed and one myrtr after the other pic hang up on our walls and in our villages

these men did not die for some "POLITICAL IDEOLOGY "

they died for a cause

and I am not going to waste time explaining ...it is all said in their actions and how they died ,,and what made them belive it is worth it.

"

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Tufaili did not leave Hezbollah because he wanted to stay true to a cause. He left Hezbollah because he lost the power within the organization that he had enjoyed. He had warned all the members in the Shura council that if he was not re-elected as Secretary General, he would leave the organization. Obviously, he was after personal power more than he was concerned with the cause, because if this wasn't the case he would have not acted towards everyone in such a blunt and arrogant manner (as he did towards everyone outside of Hezbollah as well, which is why he made so many enemies and continues to do so) and would have stayed behind to try and change things.

Tufaili is a person who has not played a constructive role towards the cause. His entire history is marred with blunt, narrow minded, devisive, extremely ideological and destructive behavior.

As for staying true to the cause, Hezbollah's conception as an organization wasn't intended to spur the creation an Islamic state in Lebanon. The ultimate goal isn't an Islamic state. The whole notion of governance is but a means, intended to acheive a goal. The ultimate goal is social, economic, and political justice -- as well as security. And Hezbollah has chosen the most sound path towards acheiving these goals given the internal factors within Lebanon.

This problem with Tufaili is that his very understanding of these essential notions were extremely lacking, and even though, he wasn't willing to even consider any alternative. He witnessed the success of the Islamic revolution in Iran, which inspired and continues to inspire all Shias within Lebnaon not only him, but he assumed -- without thinking twice -- that the same was acheivable in Lebanon. The situation in Lebanon resembles nothing like the situation in Iran. Any effort to create an Islamic state would cause perpetual civil war and lead Shias into marginalization, loss of religous freedoms, political power, social freedoms, economic and millitary security, etc. All of the ultimate goals would be sacrificed because a means has been confused with the goal. This is backwards thinking and represents a poverty of thought. And the danger of such a thinking is greatly expounded considering the occupation of the Zionist regime, whose dominance in Lebanon thrived largely on internal strife and the state of chaos within the country.

Exactly Right!

The problem is when others want to establish a government and say 'thats it, the state is Islamic now and that is that'. Without any analysis of the FACTS ON THE GROUND.

Iran suffers from this exact problem because the govt is too worried about what people are doing in their private lives and not enough focus is given to their economic woes. Shiism without the social justice is just a label. It is Hezbullahs exemplary record with the poor and needy which makes them the only legitimate contemporary islamic movement, not their declaration of Islam, although that is obviously one part.

In my opinion the student has surpassed his teacher in many ways.

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