Jump to content
Guests can now reply in ALL forum topics (No registration required!) ×
Guests can now reply in ALL forum topics (No registration required!)
In the Name of God بسم الله

Let's Discuss Sayed Fadlullah

Rate this topic


Recommended Posts

  • Advanced Member

Salam Alaikum

As I did not get a response from any of the advocates of Ayatullah Fadhlullah, I emailed him directly asking how he can explain this inconsistency, and have today got a response as attached, and the translation goes as follows:

"The mentioned hadeeth is reported in Shia books, and it expresses the reality, as Imam Al-Sadiq's [a] mother is Umm Farwah, daughter of Mohammad ibn Abi Bakr."

Whoever was at the other end of me email obviously didn't understand my question.

If this hadeeth is established because:

(a) It is mentioned in Shia books, albeit these books refer to Sunni sources and do not say that this hadeeth is established, and no Shia scholar apart from S. Fadhlullah has certified it.

(B) It includes a historical fact, although the tone of the Imam [a] speaking with pride is inaccurate

then Dua-e-Tawassul has further claim to being "established" because:

(a) It is not only mentioned in Shia books, the greatest scholars have relied and believed in this hadeeth from Sheikh ibn Babwayh and Sheikh Tusi, to the Maraje of current days.

(B) Every word and every tone of each word is accurate and factual according to the Shia aqeedah.

I have asked the question again elaborating where they are misunderstanding.

Wassalam

post-671-1199286888_thumb.jpg

Link to post
Share on other sites
  • Replies 137
  • Created
  • Last Reply

Top Posters In This Topic

Top Posters In This Topic

Popular Posts

there is a book called the tragedy of zahraa by ayatullah murtadha amili. he resopnds to sayid fadlallah. i am gogint to copy and paste some of the things written by sayid fadlallah and then show the

Posted Images

  • Basic Members

(salam)

Most people speak out of emotion and not knowledge.

To say that an Imam would not have said this or that because of this and that is not an academic approach. If it is established through a sound isnad, then maybe we should start to re-evaluate some of our former conclusions.

And even if something only is mentioned in Sunni books shouldn't be a problem by definition.

There is an isnad, and there is no reason for us to doubt the sincerity of every single Sunni scholar.

Sunni scholars who have died for their love of Imaam 'Ali (as) and Ahlul Bayt are Imaam Nisa'i (his Sunan is amongst the Sahih sittah), Imaam Abu Hanifa and others. Imaam Muhammad ash-Shafi'i was about to be executed along with several Shi'a, and if it wasn't for Imaam Abu Hanifa's student and companion Imaam Muhammad ibn al-Hasan ash-Shaybani he too would have been martyred for his love for Ahlul Bayt (as) .

Personally i find it pretty outrageous to even deem these people as unrealiable per se. So if a hadith is in Sunan Nisa'i, then one will have to examine the isnad critically from an academic point of view and not reject it due to an emotional outburst.

Link to post
Share on other sites
  • Advanced Member

Salam Alaikum

Most people speak out of emotion and not knowledge.

To say that an Imam would not have said this or that because of this and that is not an academic approach. If it is established through a sound isnad, then maybe we should start to re-evaluate some of our former conclusions.

And even if something only is mentioned in Sunni books shouldn't be a problem by definition.

There is an isnad, and there is no reason for us to doubt the sincerity of every single Sunni scholar.

Sunni scholars who have died for their love of Imaam 'Ali and Ahlul Bayt are Imaam Nisa'i (his Sunan is amongst the Sahih sittah), Imaam Abu Hanifa and others. Imaam Muhammad ash-Shafi'i was about to be executed along with several Shi'a, and if it wasn't for Imaam Abu Hanifa's student and companion Imaam Muhammad ibn al-Hasan ash-Shaybani he too would have been martyred for his love for Ahlul Bayt .

Personally i find it pretty outrageous to even deem these people as unrealiable per se. So if a hadith is in Sunan Nisa'i, then one will have to examine the isnad critically from an academic point of view and not reject it due to an emotional outburst.

Its very easy to interpret any criticism as an "emotional outburst" and unacademic. You speak of people speaking without knowledge, which you yourself have demonstrated. This is a "thinker's discourse", so lets get off our high horse and think.

My issue is not about the Sunni hadeeth itself. My issue is with the inconsistency apparent in his ijtihad, and in his classification of ahadeeth in particular. My points are purely academic, based on the usool of ijtihad.

Different Marjas have different approaches in their ijtihad. But they have to be consistent. If we are going to be very flexible about Sunni transmitters of hadeeth, give them all a benefit of the doubt, then why should we then be so strict on Shia transmissions? This is the very inconsistency that I speak of. If anybody has any response to it, then I am happy to read and understand. If nobody here can, then I will discuss with the Sayyid himself. I have emailed his office, and I await his reply. I know its his office-bearers who are answering the questions, but if I persist I hope to get through to him.

Wassalam

Link to post
Share on other sites
  • Basic Members

Abbas

(salam)

What i wonder is what do you actually know about this so called "inconsistency in ijtihad" of his?

Don't you concider it highly likely that he possess certain knowledge which you don't and judge accordingly?

And i never said that we should be more flexible when it comes to Sunni transmitters of hadith.

But we must keep in mind that not all Sunnis are liars or have a higly flawed memory, and hence a Sunni is not unreliable per se.

Link to post
Share on other sites
  • Advanced Member

Salam Alaikum

What i wonder is what do you actually know about this so called "inconsistency in ijtihad" of his?

Don't you concider it highly likely that he possess certain knowledge which you don't and judge accordingly?

And i never said that we should be more flexible when it comes to Sunni transmitters of hadith.

But we must keep in mind that not all Sunnis are liars or have a higly flawed memory, and hence a Sunni is not unreliable per se.

I have seen a discussion of this hadeeth by other scholars, and I have seen the background of this hadeeth in regards to the isnad from the Sunni books.

There are things about this hadeeth which I have not discussed, because my issue is not with this particular hadeeth and its reliability, but the way the Sayyid has gone about using it and labeling it as “thabit” while labeling more reliable narration as “ghair thabit”.

There is no isnad except a particular isnad through Al-Darqutni, and the full musnad hadeeth is as follows:

“Narrated by Hafs ibn Giyath: I heard Jafar ibn Mohammad saying: “I do seek any intercession from Ali except that I also get the same intercession from Abu Bakr. Surely he begot me twice….”

You say that not all Sunnis are unreliable per se, and I have not said anything to the contrary. Our ahadeeth have many Sunnis and we rely on those ahadeeth. However, a chain may have one or two Sunnis. But when the whole chain is Sunni, and the compiler himself is Sunni, then the probability of everybody in that chain to be reliable Sunnis is so small, that this does not even occur in reality.

Hafs ibn Giyath, although he is Sunni, he is deemed reliable. However, the rest of the chain to Al-Darqutni contains unknown and uncertified Sunni narrators. Therefore, the isnad cannot be called reliable. The matan – well read above and see whether it conforms to our beliefs in any way, shape or form.

The version of the hadeeth which just mentions “Abu Bakr begot we twice” has no isnad mentioned, and a hadeeth without isnad is the most non-thabit type of hadeeth one can get. Common sense tells us that it is actually part of the longer hadeeth as above.

Hence, its FAR from being “thabit”.

If the Sayyid knows a source of this hadeeth that nobody else picked up, then I have e-mailed him and he should be able to give a reference. Otherwise its clear inconsistency in his ijtihad.

If my marja, Sayyid Sistani, would say something unresponsible like this as what Sayyid Fadhlullah said, and no adequate and academic response is given, then I would change my Taqleed to somebody else.

Wassalam

Link to post
Share on other sites

salam alaikum

fadlalah folows tawheen and doesnt belive in wilayah takweenya

the rest (the mainstream) belive that the imams and infallibles have control over every atom in the creation

and that is shirk

on the other hand the sunnies shape god and partition him which is also shirk

one side gave god the attributes of the creation and the other side gave the creation the attributs of god

one side hates the infallibles to extreme levele where they totaly ingore them in ther hadeeth and narrations and only narrate from and trust thier killers and thier enemies and one group who loved ahlulbait so much to an extreme level where he made Trinity but (14 tinity)

prophet says to imam Ali

oh ali two will be destroyed because of you, an exterme lover and an extreme hater

Link to post
Share on other sites
  • Advanced Member
salam alaikum

fadlalah folows tawheen and doesnt belive in wilayah takweenya

the rest (the mainstream) belive that the imams and infallibles have control over every atom in the creation

and that is shirk

on the other hand the sunnies shape god and partition him which is also shirk

one side gave god the attributes of the creation and the other side gave the creation the attributs of god

one side hates the infallibles to extreme levele where they totaly ingore them in ther hadeeth and narrations and only narrate from and trust thier killers and thier enemies and one group who loved ahlulbait so much to an extreme level where he made Trinity but (14 tinity)

prophet says to imam Ali

oh ali two will be destroyed because of you, an exterme lover and an extreme hater

Please keep your half baked analogies to yourself. Wilayat e Takweenyah is not Shirk, there is a thread in the 'Thinkers Discourse' on it, please enlighten yourself before making such dubious statements.

Sayed Fadullah's view on Wilayat Takweenyah is that there are two schools of opinion, one believes they have this Wilayat while others believe they do not. However, who is in the other school? So far there has been no Shia Scholar who has denied that the Ahlul Bayt [as] have Wilayat Takweenyah so if there are really two schools of opinion then on whose view is Sayed Fadullah basing his view?

Link to post
Share on other sites
  • Advanced Member
the rest (the mainstream) belive that the imams and infallibles have control over every atom in the creation

and that is shirk

With one sentence you have called hundreds of mujtahids, from Al-Kulaini to Al-Khomeini, of being mushriks.

As for the answer of Ayatullah Sistani, the translation is:

"The Kaffarah is wajib, IF the niyyah for his nadhr included the recitation in the manner in which it is narrated and in the way it is familiarised."

This means that if one does a niyyah for his nadhr that he will recite without the cursing (rather than the full uncensored ziyarah), and he recites it without the cursing, then kaffarah will not be wajib on him.

Link to post
Share on other sites
  • Advanced Member
With one sentence you have called hundreds of mujtahids, from Al-Kulaini to Al-Khomeini, of being mushriks.

As for the answer of Ayatullah Sistani, the translation is:

"The Kaffarah is wajib, IF the niyyah for his nadhr included the recitation in the manner in which it is narrated and in the way it is familiarised."

This means that if one does a niyyah for his nadhr that he will recite without the cursing (rather than the full uncensored ziyarah), and he recites it without the cursing, then kaffarah will not be wajib on him.

(I am not directing this towards you Abbas, but towards someone else)

If a niyyah was made to recite ziyarat ashura without the cursing, by a person who does not believe the cursing is part of it, then surely he would have made the intention to read it without the cursing.

Maybe somebody can confirm, but I believe Ayatollah Sistani says that the version of ziyarat ashura which includes the cursing is not authentic, or is weak, but he says its still ok to read it.

What does Sayed Fadhlullah say about the saying of Imam Ali from Naghul Balagha where he says women are weak, deficient in faith etc?

What does Fadhlullah say about the number of wives in mutah a man can have?

This is what i found on Ayatollah Fadlallahs site,

"Question: It is said on the behalf of Imam Ali (p.) that woman is evil, and the most evil in her is that she is indispensable. Is this right?

Answer: I think that the face value meaning of this saying is impossible to be issued by Imam Ali (a.s.), why? Because we have an Islamic standard for all sayings, set by the members of the house (a.s.) to distinguish between the valid & the invalid sayings. This standard suggests that in order to know whether a certain saying is authentic or not, we have to compare it with what is stated in Koran, the book of Allah; if the saying conforms , with the meanings of the Koran, we accept it, but it disaccords with it, then we reject it.

When the Holy Koran talks about women & men, it gives them equal responsibilities, so if the women are evil in their nature, then why she should be given such responsibility. According to the divine justice in Islam, women are like men; she is neither totally good nor completely evil.

Consequently, there is no harmony between the face value meaning of Ali’s (a.s.) saying & the Islamic concept of the divine justice.

It is very possible, as suggested by the interpreters of the «Nahj Al Balagha», that the seduction practiced by women in their deviated relationship with men brings forth evil, or paves the way for it. The history of human societies clearly shows this fact. Some try to relate this saying with the enmity between Imam Ali (a.s.) & Aisha; they claim that enmity caused a psychological complex in him towards woman.

On the other hand, if one understands the Imam’s aspirations and the supreme rank he reached, he knows that Imam Ali (p.) does not judge matters according to personal measures, but he is with the truth & truth is with him. In talking about his experience with truth he says: «truth did not leave me any friends ».

"

http://english.bayynat.org.lb/WomenFamily/q&a.htm

Link to post
Share on other sites
  • Advanced Member

salam alikum ;

my advice is for thsoe who follow him and also thsoe who do not "

1- call fadulallh oofice

2- ask him foor at least min 2 names of famous ,,known ,,ulama that vouch for his marjeie3ah..and agree that he is an ayatulallah.

3- call these 2 ulmama and verify if its ture

brothers and sisters,,lets not go blind and do same as our brothers from diff sects.

ignore the hard proof.

it is shia sharia3ah and full proof aqueeda,,since it began to this date that in "IN ORDER FOR A MARJE3 TO BE ACCPETED AND FOLLOWED AS ONE ,,HE MUST HAVE AT LEAST 2 OTHER HIGHLY PEIPUS AYATOULAAH VOUCH FOR HIM "

get me 2 that vouch for him ,,by phone ,,not email ,,since alot of ulama or peopel might say its fabrictaed..

and take it from there.

the major issue here is not only what he says,,but WHO GAVE HIM THE RIGHT to be a marje3 ,,,what are hsi credentilas and DOES HE MEET THEM .

I ASKED AT LEAST 10 ULAMA ,,BY PHONE:SISTANI,KHOEI,,SHIRAZI,,AL SADR, ,,,they say he IS NOT AN AYATOLAAAH.or to be followed.

but thsoe who follow him need to come forth and give us names of those who do ,,and let us call them to verify.

then lets talk as to why.

Link to post
Share on other sites
  • Advanced Member

(salam)

I have been following debate and am in fix as to arrive at certainty......the arguments and counter-arguments both are creating a difficult situation......

In this regard, i have some questions that i wud like to be answered by the respected members here.....

Kindly confirm such references are right and also i wud be obliged if someone cud confirm the statements of the Ayatollahs regarding Syed fadhlullah.......

Below are some of the things which Sayyid Fadhlullah has written along with the references:

(1)There is mistake in the Quran- Min Wahi al-Quran, Vol 7, Pgs 539-540.

(2)In the speech on the day of Ghadeer, Rasoolallah(saw) indicated the preference of Imam Ali's(as) khelafa and didnot make it obliatory.-Al-Ensan wa Al-Hayat, Pg.257.

(3)We can use qiyas where we do not have another way of finding islamic law. -Ta'ammolat fi Afaq al-Imam-al-Kadim, Pg.94.

(4)Performing the Friday Prayer in a Sunni Mosque, behind a Sunni Imam is permissable and there is no need to perform it again. Fekr waa Thaqafah magazine,No.8, 10th May 1996.

(5)Placing the right hand on the left hand and vice versa (al-takfeer) during salat, with the purpose of submisiveness to Allah, is permissible, unless it is done as a part of the Salat.- Al Masael Al-faqhiyyah, Vol. 1, Pg 91.

(6)The sins of Ali, which he asked Allah to forgive, are so serious that anyone of them is enough to break a strong back. If Allah judges Ali (on the judgement day) on the basis of his actions, he will derserve none other than the torture (of hell). -Fi-Rehab Doa al-Komayl, Pgs. 94 & 275.

(8)Ali drank wine. - Min Wahi al-Quran, Vol 7, Pg.182.

(9)There is no definite proof to the fact that Fatemah was an extraordinary woman.-Ta'ammolat Ismamiyyah Hawl al-Mar'ah, Pg.9.

(10)The urges of Ali overcome his intellect, so he commits sins. The heart of Ali acquired sins.-Fi rehab Doas al-Komayl, Pg.159 & 169.

(11)Prophet Sulayman's action is not justifiable in God's law.-Min Wahi al-Quran, Vol. 19, Pg.289.

[edited - member has been warned for slandering a scholar]

Some of the fatwas given by alims against Fadhlullah(la) are mentioned below with references:

(1)Shaykh Mohammed Fadil Lankarani:

Surely denying Fatemah's suffering is such as denying the self evident history, and noone denies it other than an obstinate hater of Ahlebait.Reading Fadhlollahs books and selling them are not allowed, exceot for those who want to respond to them.

-Al-Howzah Al-Elmiyyah Toden Al-Enheraf/Al-Mashedi, Pg.378.

(2)Sayyed Ali Seestani:

I donot support Fadlollah and donot support Hezb al-Dawah. He (Fadlollah) is not a Mujtahid an dis not a representative rfom me, and he should not be given religious dues.

-Fetna Fadlollah/Al-Safi, Pg.53.

(3)Sayyid Mahdi Marashi:

Whoever says these things and is insistent on what he says.... he is "Dal" and "Modal', (a person who himself is deviant and who also deviates others) and one cannot rely on what he (Fadlollah) believes and writes, because his books are "books of aberration"; and it is not permitted to publish them. It is mandatory for scolars....to stand against such persons and to warn people about them.

-Al-Howzah Al-Elmiyyah Toden Al-Enheraf/Al-Mashedi, Pg.392.

(4)Shaykh Jawad Tabrizi:

We have repeatedly announced that it is not permissable to support, strenghten or promote him (fadlollah) in any possible way.

-Al-Howzah Al-Elmiyyah Toden Al-Enheraf/Al-Mashedi, Pg.470.

We have mentioned that it is not permissable to follow him or to support him in any way or to support whosoever supports him.

-Al-Howzah Al-Elmiyyah Toden Al-Enheraf/Al-Mashedi, Pg.472.

These are some of the fatwas given against Sayyid Fadlollah.

Wassalam

Edited by Talib-e-Ilm
Link to post
Share on other sites
  • Advanced Member

salam alikum.

I apologize for all my spelling mistakes :blush:

I usualy am more carefull but it was ahsura night i was in a hurry ,,

to correct some of my mistakes:

pipuies,,=pious

in sum:get us hard proof that sayed mouhammed is a marje3 according to shia shari3a,a and lets dissect it and validate it.

peace.

Link to post
Share on other sites
  • Advanced Member

There's an anti-fadlallah mania on this forum. It's scary. You guys are missing out on the important : shiism is different from sunnism especially because it permits contradiction, dialogue and diverse interpretations. So keep it this way.

And God bless Fadlallah.

Link to post
Share on other sites
  • Advanced Member

Those are mostly ignorant statements. Aside from 4, 5, they are all false or taken out context. Four and Five are his own deductions of the law. By posting such [Edited Out], I'm forced to waste vaulable time responding to nonsense when you could have just as easily went to his website.

(6)The sins of Ali, which he asked Allah to forgive, are so serious that anyone of them is enough to break a strong back. If Allah judges Ali (on the judgement day) on the basis of his actions, he will derserve none other than the torture (of hell). -Fi-Rehab Doa al-Komayl, Pgs. 94 & 275.

(8)Ali drank wine. - Min Wahi al-Quran, Vol 7, Pg.182.

(10)The urges of Ali overcome his intellect, so he commits sins. The heart of Ali acquired sins.-Fi rehab Doas al-Komayl, Pg.159 & 169.

(2)In the speech on the day of Ghadeer, Rasoolallah(saw) indicated the preference of Imam Ali's(as) khelafa and didnot make it obliatory.-Al-Ensan wa Al-Hayat, Pg.257.

It seems you have either made fabrications or taken things several out of context. Funny, this style of yours resembles that of an ignorant wahabi bashing Shias and Shia Ulemah.

From His Eminence's website:

http://english.bayynat.org.lb/infallibles/imamali.htm There is plenty more on his site about the goodness of Imam Ali and never once did he deny his "INFAILABILITY" which is clearly stated on his website.

Ali (a.s.) is the man who spent his life near Allah and was spiritually with Him. His life was not a Sufi one; it was an open one that makes you live with people to feel their pains and sufferings and to create a new thought in their minds by Allah?s inspiration.

{And there is the type of man who gives his life to earn the pleasure of Allah ; and Allah is full of kindness to (His) devotee} (2:207).

{Your (real) friends are (no less than) Allah, His Messengers, and the Believers, those who establish regular prayers and pay Zakat and they bow down humbly (in worship)} (5:55).

These two verses talk about the good conduct of Imam Ali (a.s) ... The first one was revealed in the first night of Al-Higra, when Ali (a.s) slept in the Prophet?s (p.) bed to cover his leaving of Mecca. So, Allah witnessed the Imam?s loyalty to His Messenger being also a loyalty to Allah.

(9)There is no definite proof to the fact that Fatemah was an extraordinary woman.-Ta'ammolat Ismamiyyah Hawl al-Mar'ah, Pg.9.

When we study the personality of this lady whom Allah has purified, and made a role model for Muslim women, we find out that she is infallible, being one of the five members of the House that Allah cleansed as cited in the Ayah above? She was the absolute purity and the absolute good whom the Quran talked about in three different Surahs: The verse cited above, The Man surah in which Allah talked about the spirit of giving that she shared with her Husband (Imam Ali)?When they were fasting and gave the break fast dinner for a poor man, an orphan and a prisoner and remained fasting {And they feed, for the love of Allah, the indigent, the orphan and the captive * (Saying), ?We feed you for the sake of Allah alone: No reward do we desire from you, nor thanks}[76:8-9].

http://english.bayynat.org.lb/se_002/frida.../ke30082002.htm There is much more about Fatimah

Al Zahra on the website.

As it is the day of Ashura, I must leave. I'm sure someone else if they have time to waste can continue to respond to the post.

Edited by YaZahraa`
I just removed somebody elses post from yours, as it has been edited out.
Link to post
Share on other sites
  • Advanced Member
it is shia sharia3ah and full proof aqueeda,,since it began to this date that in "IN ORDER FOR A MARJE3 TO BE ACCPETED AND FOLLOWED AS ONE ,,HE MUST HAVE AT LEAST 2 OTHER HIGHLY PEIPUS AYATOULAAH VOUCH FOR HIM "

What is the basis for that system of requiring two marja' to vouch for someone? Where did that start? Is there textual evidence to support it?

(1)There is mistake in the Quran- Min Wahi al-Quran, Vol 7, Pgs 539-540.

(2)In the speech on the day of Ghadeer, Rasoolallah(saw) indicated the preference of Imam Ali's(as) khelafa and didnot make it obliatory.-Al-Ensan wa Al-Hayat, Pg.257.

(3)We can use qiyas where we do not have another way of finding islamic law. -Ta'ammolat fi Afaq al-Imam-al-Kadim, Pg.94.

(4)Performing the Friday Prayer in a Sunni Mosque, behind a Sunni Imam is permissable and there is no need to perform it again. Fekr waa Thaqafah magazine,No.8, 10th May 1996.

(5)Placing the right hand on the left hand and vice versa (al-takfeer) during salat, with the purpose of submisiveness to Allah, is permissible, unless it is done as a part of the Salat.- Al Masael Al-faqhiyyah, Vol. 1, Pg 91.

(6)The sins of Ali, which he asked Allah to forgive, are so serious that anyone of them is enough to break a strong back. If Allah judges Ali (on the judgement day) on the basis of his actions, he will derserve none other than the torture (of hell). -Fi-Rehab Doa al-Komayl, Pgs. 94 & 275.

(8)Ali drank wine. - Min Wahi al-Quran, Vol 7, Pg.182.

(9)There is no definite proof to the fact that Fatemah was an extraordinary woman.-Ta'ammolat Ismamiyyah Hawl al-Mar'ah, Pg.9.

(10)The urges of Ali overcome his intellect, so he commits sins. The heart of Ali acquired sins.-Fi rehab Doas al-Komayl, Pg.159 & 169.

(11)Prophet Sulayman's action is not justifiable in God's law.-Min Wahi al-Quran, Vol. 19, Pg.289.

I have looked into such lists before. Invariably, they are WAHABI STYLE mistranslations, out of context misquotes, etc. I have to ask what has happened to the iman and akhlaq of some of our community that they resort to the propaganda techniques of unbelievers and modern day khawarij to attack one of their own scholars. Subhanallah. Although Fadlallah is not my marja,' I make tabarra from these slandering liars from the depths of my soul.

Link to post
Share on other sites
  • Advanced Member
What is the basis for that system of requiring two marja' to vouch for someone? Where did that start? Is there textual evidence to support it?

That's how you get the Ijaza (permission) to perform Ijtihad. Two other Marja's have to vouch for you.

I have looked into such lists before. Invariably, they are WAHABI STYLE mistranslations, out of context misquotes, etc. I have to ask what has happened to the iman and akhlaq of some of our community that they resort to the propaganda techniques of unbelievers and modern day khawarij to attack one of their own scholars. Subhanallah. Although Fadlallah is not my marja,' I make tabarra from these slandering liars from the depths of my soul.

Although you're intentions may be good, but can you seriously prove he didn't say/mean those things ?

It seems to me that is more likely he did actually say those stuff, because (1) The sources are given (his books) (2) Other major Marja's condemn him.

Link to post
Share on other sites
  • Advanced Member
Interesting..

I did not know that we condemned as a Marja-e Taqlid by the other Grand Ayatullahs..

Thanks for enlightening us..

dear bro,,I sewar to you,,I am leb ,,,last thing I want is create shia-shai fitnah ,,on a LEBANEASE MARJE3,,that I used to follow and prayed behind him in dahiyah beirut,,

I never make claims,,,,but I did call lots of offices of ayatoylaah ,,and I advise you and need you to do same,,,for you and us in case my job was not enough....the list is here :

[Note from Mod: We do not encourage members to advertise that website.]

ÇáÔåíÏ ÇáÓÚíÏ ÂíÉ Çááå ÇáÚÙãì ÇáÓíÏ ãÍãÏ ÈÇÞÑ ÇáÍßíã ÞÏÓ ÓÑøå ÇáÔÑíÝ

ÓãÇÍÉ ÇáãÑÌÚ ÇáÏíäí ÇáÓíÏ ãÍãÏ ÇáÔÇåÑæÏí

ÂíÉ Çááå ÇáÚáÇãÉ ÇáãÍÞÞ ÇáÓíÏ ÌÚÝÑ ãÑÊÖì ÇáÚÇãáí

ÂíÉ Çááå ÇáÚÙãì ÇáÓíÏ ÇáÎÇãäÆí

ÂíÉ Çááå ÇáÚÙãì ÇáÓíÏ ÇáÍÇÆÑí

ÍÌÉ ÇáÅÓáÇã æÇáãÓáãíä ÇáÔíÎ Úáí ÇáßæÑÇäí ÇáÚÇãáí

ÂíÉ Çááå ÇáÓíÏ ÃÍãÏ ÇáãÏÏí

ÂíÉ Çááå ÇáÓíÏ Úáí ãßí ÇáÚÇãáí

ÂíÉ Çááå ÇáÓíÏ ãÍãÏ ÇáãÏÏí ÇáäÌÝí

ÂíÉ Çááå ÇáÔíÎ ÈÇÞÑ ÔÑíÝ ÇáÞÑÔí

ÂíÉ Çááå ÇáÔíÎ ãÍãÏ ãåÏí ÔãÓ ÇáÏíä

ÇáãÑÌÚ ÇáÏíäí ÇáÔåíÏ ãÍãÏ ãÍãÏ ÕÇÏÞ ÇáÕÏÑ

ÓãÇÍÉ ÇáãÑÌÚ ÇáÏíäí ÇáÔíÎ ÃÈæ ÇáÝÖá ÇáÎæäÓÇÑí ÇáäÌÝí

ÓãÇÍÉ ÇáãÑÌÚ ÇáÏíäí ÇáÓíÏ ÊÞí ÇáÞãí

ÓãÇÍÉ ÇáãÑÌÚ ÇáÏíäí ÇáÓíÏ ÕÇÏÞ ÇáÑæÍÇäí

ÓãÇÍÉ ÇáãÑÌÚ ÇáÏíäí ÇáÓíÏ Úáí ÇáÎÇãäÆí

ÓãÇÍÉ ÇáãÑÌÚ ÇáÏíäí ÇáÓíÏ Úáí ÇáÓíÓÊÇäí

ÓãÇÍÉ ÇáãÑÌÚ ÇáÏíäí ÇáÓíÏ ßÇÙã ÇáÍÇÆÑí

ÓãÇÍÉ ÇáãÑÌÚ ÇáÏíäí ÇáÓíÏ ßÇÙã ÇáãÑÚÔí

ÓãÇÍÉ ÇáãÑÌÚ ÇáÏíäí ÇáÓíÏ ãÍãÏ ÇáÍÓíäí ÇáÔíÑÇÒí

ÓãÇÍÉ ÇáãÑÌÚ ÇáÏíäí ÇáÓíÏ ãÍãÏ ÈÇÞÑ ÇáÔíÑÇÒí

ÓãÇÍÉ ÇáãÑÌÚ ÇáÏíäí ÇáÓíÏ ãÍãÏ ÓÚíÏ ÇáÍßíã

ÓãÇÍÉ ÇáãÑÌÚ ÇáÏíäí ÇáÓíÏ ãÍãÏ Úáí ÇáãÏÑÓí

ÓãÇÍÉ ÇáãÑÌÚ ÇáÏíäí ÇáÓíÏ ãåÏí ÇáãÑÚÔí

ÓãÇÍÉ ÇáãÑÌÚ ÇáÏíäí ÇáÓíÏ íæÓÝ ÇáãÏäí ÇáÊÈÑíÒí

ÓãÇÍÉ ÇáãÑÌÚ ÇáÏíäí ÇáÔíÎ ÇáãíÑÒÇ ÌæÇÏ ÇáÊÈÑíÒí

ÓãÇÍÉ ÇáãÑÌÚ ÇáÏíäí ÇáÔíÎ ÈÔíÑ ÇáäÌÝí ÌÏíÏ

ÓãÇÍÉ ÇáãÑÌÚ ÇáÏíäí ÇáÔíÎ ÍÓíä ÇáäæÑí ÇáåãÏÇäí ÌÏíÏ

ÓãÇÍÉ ÇáãÑÌÚ ÇáÏíäí ÇáÔíÎ ÍÓíä ÇáæÍíÏ ÇáÎÑÇÓÇäí

ÓãÇÍÉ ÇáãÑÌÚ ÇáÏíäí ÇáÔíÎ ãÍãÏ ÇáÝÇÖá ÇááäßÑÇäí

ÓãÇÍÉ ÇáãÑÌÚ ÇáÏíäí ÇáÔíÎ ãÍãÏ ÊÞí ÈåÌÊ

ÓãÇÍÉ ÇáãÑÌÚ ÇáÏíäí ÇáÔíÎ äÇÕÑ ãßÇÑã ÇáÔíÑÇÒí

all these in arabic I will translate in shlaah ,,,but the website yougfo and you can see thier hand written stapped fatwas,,,if youread arabic these are known ,,,there is nooo issues about thier ayatolaah degrees.

but do as I did when I follwed sayed mouhammed,,,lets assume thenet is fabricated,,,and has lies,,,lets pick 5 our of tehse and CALL thier offces,,and ask,,

I called :

sayed sistani

sayed shirazi

sayed khowie

sayed al hakim

offices

reply was clear:

he is not a marje3.

you do same.

What is the basis for that system of requiring two marja' to vouch for someone? Where did that start? Is there textual evidence to support it?

I have looked into such lists before. Invariably, they are WAHABI STYLE mistranslations, out of context misquotes, etc. I have to ask what has happened to the iman and akhlaq of some of our community that they resort to the propaganda techniques of unbelievers and modern day khawarij to attack one of their own scholars. Subhanallah. Although Fadlallah is not my marja,' I make tabarra from these slandering liars from the depths of my soul.

dear bro,,,I do not use internet for my religoues techings

I sit in gathering where a vouched for representative of sayed fadullah in past

or saye dsistani

or any shiek in our shia scholl site and teachs.

this does not need a text

if you do nto belive me call your marje3 and ask him ,,

call sayed sistani and ask him

call sayed alhakim office and ask him

call office of sayed al khoie ,,,and al khomieni ,,,,

and ask them

they knwo best...

lets not be like other sects ,,,base our belife on what those informed tell us,,,and I am less informed

but i did my homework,,,you do not need to trust me,,,

I am asking you to call those who you can trust ,,and millions had faith in.

let me know

Edited by YaZahraa`
Link to post
Share on other sites
  • Advanced Member

(salam)

qudsi_rizvi, im not going to answer all of your accusations because im not going to waste my time looking up every single piece of evidence against the nonsense accusations, im just going to answer the ones i know off the top of my head. Just know that many lies have been spread.

(salam)

Below are some of the things which Sayyid Fadhlullah has written along with the references:

(2)In the speech on the day of Ghadeer, Rasoolallah(saw) indicated the preference of Imam Ali's(as) khelafa and didnot make it obliatory.-Al-Ensan wa Al-Hayat, Pg.257.

Some excerpts from Ayatollah Fadlallahs ghadeer speech, and I encourage you to read it all:

http://english.bayynat.org.lb/FridaySpeeches/ke28122007.htm

Thus all Muslims knew that the Messenger named Ali as his successor, especially that this story is agreed upon by both Sunnis and Shiites, although that some Sunni's have tried to interpret the word mawla as meaning the one whom I love or support. But such an interpretation is naive, because it is meaningless for the Prophet to gather the Muslims in that very hot day just to tell them this, especially that he began his address by saying: "Do not I have none right over the believers than themselves", and went on to say if I do than Ali does, meaning I am your ruler than Ali is too.

Yet the events that took place after the Prophet's death, denied Ali his right in being a caliph. But we do not want to talk about that to preserve the Muslim unity. Nevertheless, we want to wonder why he chose Ali. Certainly it was not a personal wish, for Allah told him. O Messenger! Deliver what bas been revealed to you from your Lord; and if you do it not, then you have not delivered His message, and Allah will protect you from the people; surely Allah will not guide the unbelieving people.

The Messenger used to say to the Muslims who asked him to marry Fatima. Were it not for Ali no one would have been qualified to (marry) Fatima. They were both the students of the Messenger, with Fatima learning what Ali was learning. Thus Ali was the only one qualified to be the successor of the Prophet for he was the most pious, the most willing to sacrifice and struggle for the cause of religion.

Then after the Messenger, when he was denied his right he felt that he was responsible for Islam outside the caliphate, just as if he were a caliph, that is why he gave those who came before him and denied him his right all assistance and advice for he wanted them to stay on the course of the straight path to the extent that the second caliph said: Were not for Ali, Omar would have been doomed. He shouldered the responsibility of Islam as a child and continued to shoulder it, through out his life. That is why he said: I will keep the peace as long as the affairs of Muslims are maintained and the only injustice believes on me.

Ali was born in Kabah and martyred in a house of Allah. That is why, when we celebrate the anniversary of his Wilayat, we should be linked with him through our minds, and souls, and inspire his teachings and consider him a role model for our spirits and life, for Ali does not take us except to God. He represents in every thing he did, what Allah wants Islam to do and adopt.

In the light of this, we have to stand in this day, the day of Ghadir, to pledge our loyalty to the line of Imam Ali, and on all the knowledge, thought perseverance and patience he taught us or gave us. We should thank God for making us of those who believe in his wilayah. We should thank him for completing our religion and His Grace.

We should say to the Imam: we are with you. We ask God to make us succeed in emulating you to help us be patient as he was, to uphold Islam as hid, and be faithful to Allah as he was. For he loved Allah, as His Messenger did. Was it not the Messenger who said: "I will give the banner tomorrow a man who loves Allah and his Messenger and who is loved by Allah and His Messenger.

You have loved Allah and was loved by Him, for you dedicated your life to Allah. O Commander of the faithful, intercede for us, for you are close to Allah. May peace be on you the day you were born, the day you were martyred and the day you will be brought back to life.

(4)Performing the Friday Prayer in a Sunni Mosque, behind a Sunni Imam is permissable and there is no need to perform it again. Fekr waa Thaqafah magazine,No.8, 10th May 1996.

This is another lie. I dont know how this one came about. He says the same thing as all maraja3, which is that you can pray behind them but you must say the prayer with the intention of an individual prayer, and inshallah you will recieve the reward of a congregational prayer. I myself sent the question, and i got a 2 page response on it! Even for jum3a prayer he says you can pray it with them but you must pray duhr. I have attatched the fatwas from the email i recieved if you dont believe me.

(5)Placing the right hand on the left hand and vice versa (al-takfeer) during salat, with the purpose of submisiveness to Allah, is permissible, unless it is done as a part of the Salat.- Al Masael Al-faqhiyyah, Vol. 1, Pg 91.

I've never heard that one before, but you said it yourself, 'unless it is done as part of the salat' i dont know if he really said that, but dont other scholars say the same thing about saying ameen after the fatiha? they must be sunnis right? but if you really want to know, just send a question to his office.

(6)The sins of Ali, which he asked Allah to forgive, are so serious that anyone of them is enough to break a strong back. If Allah judges Ali (on the judgement day) on the basis of his actions, he will derserve none other than the torture (of hell). -Fi-Rehab Doa al-Komayl, Pgs. 94 & 275.

nonsense, May Allah guide the liars.

(8)Ali drank wine. - Min Wahi al-Quran, Vol 7, Pg.182.

(9)There is no definite proof to the fact that Fatemah was an extraordinary woman.-Ta'ammolat Ismamiyyah Hawl al-Mar'ah, Pg.9.

(10)The urges of Ali overcome his intellect, so he commits sins. The heart of Ali acquired sins.-Fi rehab Doas al-Komayl, Pg.159 & 169.

(11)Prophet Sulayman's action is not justifiable in God's law.-Min Wahi al-Quran, Vol. 19, Pg.289.

more nonsense.

Sister (i hope im right) karbala, i think you have been given the wrong information from whoever you asked. I have asked heard from representatives of Sayyid Sistani (ha) that he does not give his own opinion on it. If you send a question to sistani.org they will not answer you. Maybe a certain office does answer this question, but most of them do not.

sayid khoei doesnt have an opinion on him, if you heard an opinion it was representatives and not his own, since sayid khoei r.a. passed away around the time sayid fadlallah first became a marja.

post-13146-1200799403_thumb.jpg

post-13146-1200799416_thumb.jpg

Link to post
Share on other sites
  • Advanced Member

I have attatched a file with some of the names of mujtahids who have approved of the taqleed of sayid fadlallah. The list posted is not the complete list. One marja who is not on the list is Ayatollah Yaqoobi, if you email him about the sayid you will only get the kindest words for the sayid in reply.

You can try to contact the people on this list to confirm, however I can say for sure that 2 have confirmed already. I used to have a signed ijaza from Ayatollah montzeri, and I have already mentioned a confirmed email from Ayatollah Yaqoobi. And im sure the others on that list will also confirm.

It is true that there are marjas who do not approve of his marja3iya, but this doesnt mean that we should forget about the ones who do approve of his marja3iya. If we want to have an opinion when negatively saying something about someone, we should make sure we know what we're saying is true. This is very important, it effects our akhira, if you slander this man, or anybody, you will be reminded about it on the day when an atoms weight of good and bad deeds are judged.

I strongly advise everybody who has any problem with the sayids views to talk to him about it, and to get as much information about it as they can before speaking, so that they do not speak the wrong words. This means that if you really want to say something about his beliefs, you should study them in depth, one simple email doesnt always answer the question fully, offices are busy and may not always give you the most in depth answer in an email. And if you decide its too much work to take another step in getting more information then i suggest keeping things to yourself.

Sayid_permission2.bmp

Link to post
Share on other sites
  • Advanced Member
That's how you get the Ijaza (permission) to perform Ijtihad. Two other Marja's have to vouch for you.

That's not an answer to the question. What is the basis for this system?

Although you're intentions may be good, but can you seriously prove he didn't say/mean those things ?

It seems to me that is more likely he did actually say those stuff, because (1) The sources are given (his books) (2) Other major Marja's condemn him.

First, you can't prove a negative.

Second, in the past I have seen such lists (particularly at the main anti-Fadlallah site, which I will leave nameless so as not to in any way accidentally promote it as a side effect), have looked up the quotes, and found them to be flat out mischaracerizations of what was said. These sites and these lists do the same [Edited Out] that Wahhabis do to us; they play games with words.

I have heard that some scholars are involved with these sites; if they are, they should be strung up for their willing slander of another scholar, particularly one doing so much valuable work for the community.

When I first found out about this stuff, as a relatively new convert of a few years, it really broke my heart, and when I heard that scholars, maraja even, knew about this and approved it, it soured a lot of my respect for the institution of the marjaiyyat (my respect for the institution as a whole has only recently healed fully) and made me much more critical of what I hear.

Edited by kadhim
Link to post
Share on other sites
  • Advanced Member
(salam)

qudsi_rizvi, im not going to answer all of your accusations because im not going to waste my time looking up every single piece of evidence against the nonsense accusations, im just going to answer the ones i know off the top of my head. Just know that many lies have been spread.

Some excerpts from Ayatollah Fadlallahs ghadeer speech, and I encourage you to read it all:

http://english.bayynat.org.lb/FridaySpeeches/ke28122007.htm

This is another lie. I dont know how this one came about. He says the same thing as all maraja3, which is that you can pray behind them but you must say the prayer with the intention of an individual prayer, and inshallah you will recieve the reward of a congregational prayer. I myself sent the question, and i got a 2 page response on it! Even for jum3a prayer he says you can pray it with them but you must pray duhr. I have attatched the fatwas from the email i recieved if you dont believe me.

I've never heard that one before, but you said it yourself, 'unless it is done as part of the salat' i dont know if he really said that, but dont other scholars say the same thing about saying ameen after the fatiha? they must be sunnis right? but if you really want to know, just send a question to his office.

nonsense, May Allah guide the liars.

more nonsense.

Sister (i hope im right) karbala, i think you have been given the wrong information from whoever you asked. I have asked heard from representatives of Sayyid Sistani (ha) that he does not give his own opinion on it. If you send a question to sistani.org they will not answer you. Maybe a certain office does answer this question, but most of them do not.

sayid khoei doesnt have an opinion on him, if you heard an opinion it was representatives and not his own, since sayid khoei r.a. passed away around the time sayid fadlallah first became a marja.

dear bro,,,,

Pleasse please read what I wrote,,,

I said DO NOT WRITE ,,,CALL THEM.!!!!

i CAN GIVE YOU SISTANI TEL /# IN LEBANON,,YOU CAN GET OFFICE NUMBER for many maraje3,,,,and CALL ,,CALL,,do not write,,,I tld you not to write ,,bec they do not want to cause whats almost happening here betwn shia,,,,

I was in leb in june 2007 and I called his office and I asked him if fadullah is a marje3

your in lbe I can give you the sistani office number and you can validate it and get you answer,,,

no emails,,I sent an email 2 yrs ago and they say exatly the reply you got,,,but ask yourself,,,if you ask sayed sistani about any otehr marje3,,,they will say yes,,,,why this obscure reply??

1- bro do me a favour,,,,,or 3 actually

1- call sayed fadullah office and get me now ,,today or tomm monday names of 2 ulama that vouch for him as marje3 for taqleed

2- call sayeD sistani BY PHONE...AND ask them and GO TO THIER OFFICE IN SOUTHERN DAHIYAH IN BEIRUT ,,AND GET BAYANAT.

3- LETS call these 2 ulama that vouch for him PHONE NUMBERS ,,and call their offices and validate.

meanwhile I ask all the dear shia brotehrs and sisters here to refrain from posting WHY we shoudl not folllwo himm,,what he said or wrote,,

Let us get proof first that he is a VALID MARJE3 ACCORDING TO SHIA SHARIAH..

now BEFORE someon jumps and does like sunni's ,,or other sects and ask me for text and valid notes on "WHAT IT TAKES TO BE A MARJE3"

please go and ask those who knwo better than I do.ask you rmarje3 the criteria ,,and rules for being moukaled,,doNOT ONLY ASK YOUR MRJE3 ASK AT LEAST 3 ,,,

CALL,,,DO NOT MAIL,,,

lets settle this,,,,

dear sayed fadullah followers,,,,please get us 2 ulama names that vouch for him,,and call them and validate and come bakc to us,

dear non fadullah followers,,,no more he said he wrote as to stay on main stream one point one solution.

dear moderators,,if anyone can get us direct fatwas from various knwon UNdisputable ,,,maraje3,,,on what it takes to be a amarje3 and post it.

peace to all you al el beit followers,,,,,

3-

Link to post
Share on other sites
  • Advanced Member
I have attatched a file with some of the names of mujtahids who have approved of the taqleed of sayid fadlallah. The list posted is not the complete list. One marja who is not on the list is Ayatollah Yaqoobi, if you email him about the sayid you will only get the kindest words for the sayid in reply.

You can try to contact the people on this list to confirm, however I can say for sure that 2 have confirmed already. I used to have a signed ijaza from Ayatollah montzeri, and I have already mentioned a confirmed email from Ayatollah Yaqoobi. And im sure the others on that list will also confirm.

It is true that there are marjas who do not approve of his marja3iya, but this doesnt mean that we should forget about the ones who do approve of his marja3iya. If we want to have an opinion when negatively saying something about someone, we should make sure we know what we're saying is true. This is very important, it effects our akhira, if you slander this man, or anybody, you will be reminded about it on the day when an atoms weight of good and bad deeds are judged.

I strongly advise everybody who has any problem with the sayids views to talk to him about it, and to get as much information about it as they can before speaking, so that they do not speak the wrong words. This means that if you really want to say something about his beliefs, you should study them in depth, one simple email doesnt always answer the question fully, offices are busy and may not always give you the most in depth answer in an email. And if you decide its too much work to take another step in getting more information then i suggest keeping things to yourself.

dear bro,,,,I Went thru the list one by one ,,,the 1st name :

1-al moutazeri:

I have a valid bayant from his office,,with his stamp ,,if your interested i CAN PM YOU his stand .

2- al hashtaroudi does not exsit it is al hashROUDI,,,AND his bayan is also available,on where he stands,I can mail it .

3- bro ,,,I coudl not find half of these maraje3,,there is another website that proved half of them do not exist I will not giv eit but can you get me contact NUMBERS OF 2 OF THEM ONLY.

i WILL CALL iraq or Iran ,,and validate ,,

thank you

Link to post
Share on other sites
  • Advanced Member

(salam)

Firstly, I dont live in lebanon. Just because you did not find the listed scholars online doesnt mean they do not exist, actually you should try typing in arabic for some. But not all mujtahids have enough followers or attention to have a website. This does not mean they studied any less though. Email Ayatollah Yaqoobi. Call him, do what you wish. Email or call Ayatollah Janaati. You're sitting telling me to call marjas, did you try to call anybody on that list yet before you told me that? Since you dont believe they exist why dont you try calling Sayyid Fadlallah and asking him, since this is what you tell us to do. Ask him about the people who you say dont exist.

Unfortunately Sayid Sistanis offices have not been consistant in their answers.

no emails,,I sent an email 2 yrs ago and they say exatly the reply you got,,,but ask yourself,,,if you ask sayed sistani about any otehr marje3,,,they will say yes,,,,why this obscure reply??

A better question is why is there no reply? With all due respect to Sayid Sistani, may Allah protect him, his opinion is not the only opinion, whatever his opinion may be.

Link to post
Share on other sites
  • Advanced Member

bro jnoub ,,,

I called sayed sistani office in beirut ,,,and got a STRAIGHT REPLY.I posted it but the moderators did not allow it.

I asked sayed sistani office why they do not reply to emails. and they say becuase there are "those sects" that will abuse and use to destore and separate us shia. so....

sayed sistani and al khoie and al hadkim ,,all said same things.

the truth is there for you to find but you have too look for it not "google or email it"

there are stampped ,,actual ,,not interent scanned bayant that give STRAIGHT REPLY TO THIS ISSUE "from at least 15 didff famous shia marje3 and sayed khaminie ,included.

I did call sayed fadulaah office for that list ,,,but as I said half of thes people I coudl not find,,I apologize I take back " do not exist"

1-the fist one I AM 100 % SURE SHOUDL NOT BE ON LIST ANDi CAN GIVE YOU PROOF.

2-THE THRID ONE SAID " SAYED MOUFTI AL SHIA "= NO NAME ONLY LCATION.

3- AL HASHTAROUDI I am 100 % sure does not exist it is al Hashroudi and I can give you his tel number and location and full adreess..

so here we go three.

I will verify them for you and me and anyoen who is interested. since none have interent site inorder for me to get tell number I will try to get some help .

I just wanted to tell you :

1- lets not act like other sects and wait fo others to proove thinsg for us and give us proof when we can go and search for it ourselves.

that is what makes shia AL EL BEIT diff,,,we seek the truth.

do not ask me why DO NOT I CALL his office ,,and get NUMBERS FOR your MARJE3,,when its something you as Imam ali sa folwer should jump and seek and either proove us wrong ,,or chnage.

it is only a sister advice for this issue or any issue. its what I did when I followed sayed fadullah at one time. and when someon thru these thinsg at me I did not ask them to go prove it ,,I want and found enough info with not doubt to convince me . it is a serious issue.

on the other hand,,,being lebannease and one who sent friday days ,,,al qader nights living and praying behind this man , I REFUSE TO ALLOW ANYONE BAD OUTH OR WRITE BAD STUFF ABOUT HIM.

it is not shia way .,,I have to let those who do not follwo him know ,,that if you listend to syaed fadullah ,,,you'll have no doubt he is an educated , beliver ,lover of all el biet ...

never in any of his sermons did I feel that he is to be doubted.,,and I heard him for 10 yrs .

I do not want to black or bad label him . I only want those who follwo him to hvae valid reason to do that instead of follwing thsoe MORE KNOWLGBLE.( which is how taqleed is done)

meanhwile ,,,giveme some time then I will try to valdiate it thru help and get at ;east 2 ulama that voush for him that have a pious degree.

the reason i isnit on verification is bec a peice of paper should not be enough to convicne me when there are 15-20 otheres and I gave you names with THIER OWN papers with stamps saying otehres.

next step is to locate 2 on you papaer and call.

peace

Link to post
Share on other sites
  • Advanced Member

(salam)

Firstly, i wud like to apologise for my post and it seemed to me that besides hurting many of the respected members here it also got me a an issued warning for breaching the rules in here..... I am sorry for any inconvenience but with due respect my post was not to be posted in this forum unless it got approved by a moderator........

Secondly, i dont have any such beliefs about Sayyid Fadhlullah and i dont question his marjaiiat.....

Whatever i posted was an email attachement that was sent to me by someone unknown.....

My intention purely was to know the truth...... I too know that the things quoted from the books have been culled out of context and also such things cud not have remained hidden and uncensored so easily............. I just wanted to have the whole context for me and for others to clear the doubts and manifest the reality......

It was not slandering as it was not my opinion........ it was someone else's being forwarded to me...... I put it here to clarify the issue and expose the fallacies of the enemies of Marjaiiat......

I ask the respected moderator to recheck such type of posts before giving them green signal......

w/s

Link to post
Share on other sites
  • Advanced Member
salam brother

here's the fatwa of sayed fadlullah regarding du3a tawassul

áã äÑó ÃÛáÈ ÇáÚáãÇÁ íæÕæä Èå¡ æåæ ãä äÇÍíÉ ÇáÓäÏ ÛíÑ ËÇÈÊ æãä äÇÍíÉ ÇáãÖãæä íáÇÍÙ Úáíå ÇáÊæÌå ÈÇáÎØÇÈ áÛíÑ Çááå ÊÚÇáì æåÐÇ áíÓ ÑÇÌÍÇ æÅä ßÇä ÇáãÑÇÏ ÇáÇÓÊÔÝÇÚ ÈÇáäÈí æÇåá ÈíÊå (Ú) áßä ÇÓáæÈå ÛíÑ ãÚåæÏ Ýí ÃÏÚíÊåã (Ú) æáÇ ãíÒÉ ááíáÉ ÇáÃÑÈÚÇÁ Ýíå ÝÅä Ðáß áíÓ äÇÔÆÇð ãä ÇáÓäÉ æÇáãÃËæÑ.

i translate

he said it's not confirmed by a strong sanad(chain) and regarding it's content it gives the impression that we are asking other than Allah and this is unlikely even though it's used as mean of intercession but the style of this hadith is not the style of the prophet or ahlbait and there's no proof that it was read every wednesday night according to sunnah or legacy

but tawassul in itself is deemed good by sayed fadlullah and there's no problem with using the intercession of ahlbait

it's not the fault of sayed fadlullah the hadith is weak in sanad

i myself dont see anything wrong with using this hadith even if it's not really from masoom but that's myt opinion

what makes its sanad weak?

Link to post
Share on other sites
  • Advanced Member

I ASKED THIS QUESTION BEFORE, YOUR REPLY WOOULD BE MOST APPRECIATED.....THERE ARE TOO MANY RUMOURS AND I WANT TO MAKE SURE THIS ONE IS NOT CORRECT!

SALAAM BROTHER....

Is is true that Sayed Fadhlullah agrees according to traditions found in Sunni Kitabs, that Imam Ali gave bayah (Allegiance) to Abu Bakr after 6 months?

Link to post
Share on other sites
Guest
This topic is now closed to further replies.

×
×
  • Create New...