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In the Name of God بسم الله

' The Turk Will Occupy The Region Of Al Jazira'

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(bismillah)

'The Turk will Occupy the Region of AlJazira'

Another Sign Begining to Occur?

CNN REPORT FROM THE TURKEY IRAQ BORDER

art.turkey.trucks.afp.jpg

Turkish military trucks carry tanks on a road

in southeastern Turkey on October 10. AFP Picture.

IRBIL, Iraq (CNN) -- Turkish troops shelled farmland around a half-dozen villages in northern Iraq from across the tense border, an Iraqi Kurdish official said Sunday, in what the Turkish military called retaliation for weekend attacks by Kurdish rebels.

A provincial intelligence official in Iraq's Kurdish city of Dohuk said the shelling set orchards and farmland ablaze, but no casualties were reported. Firefighters worked until just before daybreak to put out a blaze that scorched fields on farms near the border.

Turkey's military reported Saturday that Kurdish separatist guerrillas attacked villages on its side of the border late Friday, wounding one soldier near the village of Yemisli.

"The Turkish military responded to these unacceptable attacks and will continue to respond," a military statement said.

The most recent shelling began at 10:30 p.m. Saturday and lasted for more than four hours, striking farmlands and adjacent roads used by villagers. Authorities fear as many as 30,000 people may be displaced from their homes if the bombardment continues, the intelligence official said.

The shelling comes as Turkey's government is threatening to mount a cross-border attack to root out guerrillas from the separatist Kurdistan Worker's Party, or PKK, which has battled Turkish troops in the country's heavily Kurdish southeast since 1984. The United States and the European Union have branded the group a terrorist organization, and Turkish officials say 30 soldiers and civilians have been killed in PKK attacks since late September.

Turkey has about 60,000 on Iraq's northern frontier, and Prime Minister Recep Tayyip Erdogan says he will ask parliament this week to authorize a military incursion -- a move U.S. officials fear could undermine the stability of Iraq's American-backed government. U.S. envoys have urged Iraq to crack down on the rebels and held weekend talks in Ankara to persuade NATO ally Turkey to stay its hand.

Iraqi Defense Ministry spokesman Mohammed al-Askari could not confirm Sunday's reports, but restated that Iraq's official position is to resolve all issues with neighboring countries including Turkey diplomatically, based on Iraq's constitution and law.

Defense Minister Abdel Qader Mohammed Jassim has been involved in diplomatic talks with the Turkish Ambassador in Baghdad and has called for resolving these issues "peacefully" and strengthening ties between Iraq and Turkey, al-Askari said.

CNN's Nic Robertson, Ingrid Formanek and Talia Kayali contributed to this report.

______________________________________________________________________________________________

On one hand the US will squeeze every drop out of its allies and use them to the hilt. On the other it will continue to make calls for their humiliation- accuse them of genocide- while it itself has contributed to and continues to actively assist the systematic genocide of the Palestinians.

Little wonder that a self respecting nation of Muslims has woken up from slumber! Sit back folks and watch another sign unfold.

What implications this will have on the Iraqi stalemate, is anyone's guess.

May Allah (SWT) Hasten the Return of the Living Imam!

Edited by Black Ink
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I find the whole thing unbelievable, not that I’m denying that it is happening. It just that I’m sure every neighbor of Iraq can press some claim to Iraqi territory. Once the process begins, where will it stop? To my mind this can only end with the dissolution of Iraq as a country.

Will the America government allow it?

Will the Iraqi government allow it?

Will the UN even debate it?

BTW: That is an American M60A3 tank being transported forward to save the tread life of the tank. When not in combat this is the most economical way to move armor short of using a rail link. It also shows the Turks know what they are doing. Moving armor on treads wears it out and destroys the road network.

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I find the whole thing unbelievable, not that I’m denying that it is happening. It just that I’m sure every neighbor of Iraq can press some claim to Iraqi territory. Once the process begins, where will it stop? To my mind this can only end with the dissolution of Iraq as a country.

Will the America government allow it?

Will the Iraqi government allow it?

Will the UN even debate it?

BTW: That is an American M60A3 tank being transported forward to save the tread life of the tank. When not in combat this is the most economical way to move armor short of using a rail link. It also shows the Turks know what they are doing. Moving armor on treads wears it out and destroys the road network.

What I suppose defies belief is that this was stated as a fact some 1400 years ago. Following Ahmedinejad's public pleadings to the Divine in three consecutive UN General Assembly meetings- and the consistent prayers of the oppressed Shia for the last 1400 years- it seems like finally the 'deliverance' is in fact not far. Not an End Times fanatic myself, but the writing seems to be so obviously on the wall.

Regardless of weather American or Iraqi governments wanting to allow or disallow this incursion/invasion, Turkey will be unstoppable. I trust it is time for sweet revenge for the Turks against the excesses committed against itself over the recent past hundred years by the West and Arab puppets in the ME.

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Is there a narration about Turks occupying that area?

Yes, there is. In fact detailed ahadith narrate a series of occupations and invasions focused on the Middle East. Turks occupying Al Jazira is one of them.

Was there even a designation "Turk" in that day?

A question worth asking. The narration exists. The language Turkish has existed for a decent while. Perhaps longer than English. So, I wouldn't think the term 'Turk' was invented anytime recently.

Did the Turks not already occupy that area under the Ottoman caliphate?

This was stated some 1400 years ago. The Ottomans ruled over a much more expansive territory than Al Jazira. The 'Turk occupying Al Jazira' seems to me that the reference is to a specific region. Which is what seems to be on the threshold of happening now.

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I had not heard of such a narration. The main problem I am having in hearing it is that the Turks were not, to my knowledge, one of the peoples of the area in that time. What is now Turkey was a Greek area, the Byzantine Empire. Turks did not even arrive in the mideast until the advance of the Mongols, when they swept West out of Central Asia. I'd be surprised if anyone in the early Islamic period in the Mideast had even heard of Turks.

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I had not heard of such a narration. The main problem I am having in hearing it is that the Turks were not, to my knowledge, one of the peoples of the area in that time. What is now Turkey was a Greek area, the Byzantine Empire. Turks did not even arrive in the mideast until the advance of the Mongols, when they swept West out of Central Asia. I'd be surprised if anyone in the early Islamic period in the Mideast had even heard of Turks.

1. Throughout history the Turks have established numerous states in different geographical areas on the continents of Asia, Europe and Africa. Therefore, they encountered different cultures, they influenced these cultures and were influenced by them.

The Chinese records reported that the first appearance of the Turks in history was in the Kö¤men Mountains, where the most ancient remains were found. The culture referred to as Tagar, featuring remains found on the Tagar Island at the Yenisei River on the northern foot of the Köðmen Mountains and dating back to the seventh century B.C., is attributed to the ancient Turks. The Tagar Culture, however, originated from another ancient culture called the Karasuk which flourished on the same shores, which dates back to two thousand B.C.

It is accepted that Turkish political history in Asia starts with the Huns. The Hun State , which first appeared in the third century B.C., became a significant and powerful state during the reign of its founder, Mete Khan, and passed through fundamental changes, economically and socially, due to her relations with China. Having a defined and certain strategy, Mete first of all defeated the Mongolians and then the Yuechis, and thereafter, having taken the western gates and trade routes of China under his control, he gained significant economic power. This systematic expansion policy resulted in the seizure of Eastern Turkestan, the wheat and provisions granary, by the Huns.

After the collapse of the Asian Hun State, a new state called the Göktürk was founded by the Turkish tribes who adopted the traditions and administrative experiences of the Huns. The Göktürk State (552-740) is the second great state established by the Turks. Unlike the Huns, the Göktürks attached particular importance to urbanization, realized agricultural reforms and seed improvement and "sagacity" was the foremost concept.

http://www.enjoyturkey.com/info/history_turkey/outline.htm

2. When first known to history, the Turks were a nomadic people living in what is now Russian Siberia. They moved west, adopted Islam as their religion, again moved west, and built one of the world's great states. At its apogee in the sixteenth century, the Ottoman Turkish State stretched from the borders of Morocco to the borders of Iran, and from southern Poland to southern Yemen. It then entered two centuries of slow decline, followed by a century of efforts to reverse the decline by a process of westernization. Finally it collapsed at the close of World War I. From its ruins sprang the Turkish Republic.

The Rise of Turkish Power

It is not certain when the Turks first used that name to describe themselves. The earliest known writing in a Turkish tongue dates from the eighth century A.D.; it was found in the Orhon inscriptions near Lake Baykal. Yet Byzantine records of two centuries earlier refer to Turks, and Chinese chronicles mention them in 1300 B.C. Nor is it clear whether the word Turk first designated one tribe or a group of tribes. The latter was true at least by the late seventh and early eighth centuries, when the expanding forces of Islam came into contact with tribal groups they called Turks. Presumably at about the same period Turks also began to call themselves collectively by that name.

The designation is primarily linguistic: Turks are speakers of Turkish. Turkish, the language spoken by western Turks in Turkey today, is one of a large family of closely related Turkic languages; its tens of millions of speakers also inhabit parts of Iran, areas of the Russian Caucasus, and most of Russian and Chinese Turkestan. The Turkic tongues in turn are a part of the Altaic group, whose relationships are not so clear, but which includes Mongolian and perhaps Korean. Place names in Turkish are sprinkled in a vast belt from central Mongolia and western China across inner Asia through Iran, the Caucasus and Black Sea regions, and Turkey, into the Balkans as far as Yugoslavia. This indicates the route of migration and expansion of Turks in past centuries. Early in the Christian era Turkish tribes living on the fringes of Mongolia seem to have been bumped westward by stronger tribal confederations. They migrated to new homes near the Syr Darya (Jaxartes) in Central Asia. Some established urban centers. For a time in the sixth century there was an organized state in the area, which sent ambassadors to Constantinople, the Byzantine capital, and received tribute and ambassadors from the Byzantines. This little kingdom controlled the silk route from China to the West-not a road, of course, but a series of merchants and caravan stops. But the kingdom soon broke into smaller tribal units or incipient city-states.

http://killeenroos.com/4/Turkeyre.htm

____________________________________________________________________________________

The question asked about the word 'Turk' identifying this ethnic group is thought provoking. Here is what I found in a brief surf on the net. The twelve Infallible Imams lived between 7th and 9th centuries AD before the 12th Imam's major occultation began. I am not sure as to which Infallible this hadith is attributed to. I have seen it several times in a collection of ahadith in which milestone signs of End Times are narrated.

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Alright, I guess the Turks had had contact with the mideast by the time of the Imams, and the term was known there. But it is strange that there would be mention of Turks occupying an area in Iraq, given that Turks had no presence in the area at the time. I'd be curious to seeing the original Arabic and the translation side by side, to see whether they actually use the word "Turk" or whether it's an interpretation.

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Alright, I guess the Turks had had contact with the mideast by the time of the Imams, and the term was known there. But it is strange that there would be mention of Turks occupying an area in Iraq, given that Turks had no presence in the area at the time. I'd be curious to seeing the original Arabic and the translation side by side, to see whether they actually use the word "Turk" or whether it's an interpretation.

Well, all the more impressive if the Turks had no presence in the region and the hadith stated this fact we see unfolding before our eyes. Perhaps someone can quote the original hadith in Arabic to remove cynical skepticism from the minds of those who are capable of asking informed and interesting questions.

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(salam)

Can you please post the English translation of this hadith? Thank you.

Wa alaikum Salam,

Following are from three online sources with links:

1. http://www.al-islam.org/masoom/bios/12thimam.html

The Signs of the Reappearance (Qiyam) of the (Imam) who

undertakes the Office (al-Qa'im), Peace be on him, the

Period of Time of his Appearance, an Explanation of his

Life and an Extract of what is revealed about his State.

Traditions have been reported mentioning the signs for the time of

the appearance of the Imam who will arise (qa'im), peace be on him,

and the events which will take place before his appearance, together

with the indications and features of it. Among them are: The Sufyani

will come out in revolt; the Hasanid will be killed; the Abbasids will

dispute over worldly kingdom; there will be an eclipse of the sun in

the middle of the month of Ramadan; there will be an eclipse of the

moon at the end of that month in contrast to ordinary happenings;

the land will be swallowed up at al-Bayda'; it will be swallowed in the

east-it will be swallowed up in the west; the sun will stay still from the

time of its decline to the middle of the time for the afternoon prayer; it

will rise from the west; a pure soul (nafs zakiyya) will be killed in the

outskirts of Kufa with seventy righteous men; a Hashimite will be

slaughtered between the corner (of the Ka'ba) and the station of

Abraham); the wall of the mosque of Kufa will be destroyed; black

standards will advance from Khurasan; al-Yamani will come out in

revolt; al-Maghribi will appear in Egypt and take possession of it

from Syria; the Turk will occupy the region of al-Jazira; the

Byzantines will occupy Ramla; the star will appear in the east giving

light just like the moon gives light; then (the new moon) will bend

until its two tips almost meet; a colour will appear in the sky and

spread to its horizons; a fire will appear for a long time in the east

remaining in the air for three or seven days; the Arabs will throw off

the reins and take possession of their land, throwing out the foreign

authority; the people of Egypt will kill their ruler and destroy Syria;

and three standards will dispute over it (Syria); the standards of Qays

and the Arabs will come among the people of Egypt; the standards of

Kinda (will go) to Khurasan; horses will come from the west until

they are stabled in al-Hira; the black standards will advance towards

them from the east; the Euphrates will flood so that the water comes

into the alleys of Kufa; sixty liars will come forward, all of them

claiming prophethood, and twelve will come forward from the family

of Abu Talib, all of them claiming the Imamate; a man of important

rank of the supporters of the 'Abbasids will be burnt between Jalula'

and Khaniqin; the bridge next to Karkh in the city of Baghdad will be

established; a black wind will raise it at the beginning of the day and

then an earthquake will occur so that much of it will be swallowed up;

fear will cover the people of Iraq and Baghdad; swift death (will

occur) there and there will be a loss of property, lives and harvests;

locusts will appear at their usual times and at times not usual so that

they attack agricultural land and crops and there will be little harvest

for what the people planted; two kinds of foreigners will dispute and

much blood will be shed in their quarrel; slaves will rebel against

obedience to their masters and kill their masters (mawali); a group of

heretics (ahl al-bida) will be transformed until they become monkeys

and pigs; slaves will conquer the land of their masters; a cry (will

come) from the sky (in such a way) that all the people will hear it in

their own languages; a face and a chest will appear in the sky before

the people in the centre of the sun; the dead will arise from their

graves so that they will return to the world and they will recognize one

another and visit one another; that will come to an end with twenty-

four continous rainstorms and the land will be revived by them after

being dead and it will recognize its blessings; after that every disease

will be taken away from those of the Shia of the Mahdi, peace be on

him, who believe in the truth; at that time they will know of his

appearance in Mecca and they will go to him to support him.

(These signs) are as the reports have mentioned. Among the total of

these events are some which are bound (to happen) and other which

are conditional. God knows best what will take place. We have only

mentioned them on the basis of what is recounted in basic sources of

tradition (usul) because of their inclusion in traditions which have

been handed down. From God we seek help and Him do we ask for

success.

2. http://www.themahdi.org/downloads/Signs%20...-appearance.pdf

3. http://www.lanuevacuba.com/nuevacuba/notic-06-04-2272.htm

THE INFALLIBLE

THE 12TH IMAM

EL MAHDI

The Signs of the Reappearance (Qiyam) of the (Imam)

who undertakes the Office (al-Qa'im),

Peace be on him,

the Period of Time of his Appearance,

an Explanation of his Life

and an Extract of what is revealed about his State.

Kitab al Irshad

Chapter: The Twelfth Imam (Peace be on him)

Page (s): 541 - 548

Published by:

Tehrike Tersile Qura'n

Contributed by Dr. Ali Abbas

George Washington University

Infosearch:

José F. Sánchez

Jefe de Buró

Cuba

Dept. de Investigaciones

La Nueva Cuba

Abril 22, 2006

Traditions have been reported mentioning the signs for the time of the appearance of the Imam who will arise (qa'im), peace be on him, and the events which will take place before his appearance, together with the indications and features of it.

Among them are:

The Sufyani will come out in revolt; the Hasanid will be killed; the Abbasids will dispute over worldly kingdom;

there will be an eclipse of the sun in the middle of the month of Ramadan; there will be an eclipse of the moon at the end of that month in contrast to ordinary happenings; the land will be swallowed up at al-Bayda'; it will be swallowed in the east-it will be swallowed up in the west; the sun will stay still from the time of its decline to the middle of the time for the afternoon prayer; it will rise from the west;

a pure soul (nafs zakiyya) will be killed in the outskirts of Kufa with seventy righteous men; a Hashimite will be slaughtered between the corner (of the Ka'ba) and the station of Abraham); the wall of the mosque of Kufa will be destroyed; black standards will advance from Khurasan; al-Yamani will come out in revolt; al-Maghribi will appear in Egypt and take possession of it from Syria; the Turk will occupy the region of al-Jazira; the Byzantines will occupy Ramla;

the star will appear in the east giving light just like the moon gives light; then (the new moon) will bend until its two tips almost meet; a colour will appear in the sky and spread to its horizons; a fire will appear for a long time in the east remaining in the air for three or seven days;

the Arabs will throw off the reins and take possession of their land, throwing out the foreign authority; the people of Egypt will kill their ruler and destroy Syria; and three standards will dispute over it (Syria); the standards of Qays and the Arabs will come among the people of Egypt; the standards of Kinda (will go) to Khurasan; horses will come from the west until they are stabled in al-Hira; the black standards will advance towards them from the east;

the Euphrates will flood so that the water comes into the alleys of Kufa; sixty liars will come forward, all of them claiming prophethood, and twelve will come forward from the family of Abu Talib, all of them claiming the Imamate; a man of important rank of the supporters of the 'Abbasids will be burnt between Jalula' and Khaniqin; the bridge next to Karkh in the city of Baghdad will be established; a black wind will raise it at the beginning of the day and then an earthquake will occur so that much of it will be swallowed up;

fear will cover the people of Iraq and Baghdad; swift death (will occur) there and there will be a loss of property, lives and harvests; locusts will appear at their usual times and at times not usual so that they attack agricultural land and crops and there will be little harvest for what the people planted; two kinds of foreigners will dispute and much blood will be shed in their quarrel; slaves will rebel against obedience to their masters and kill their masters (mawali); a group of heretics (ahl al-bida) will be transformed until they become monkeys and pigs; slaves will conquer the land of their masters;

a cry (will come) from the sky (in such a way) that all the people will hear it in their own languages; a face and a chest will appear in the sky before the people in the centre of the sun; the dead will arise from their graves so that they will return to the world and they will recognize one another and visit one another; that will come to an end with twenty- four continous rainstorms and the land will be revived by them after being dead and it will recognize its blessings; after that every disease will be taken away from those of the Shia of the Mahdi, peace be on him, who believe in the truth; at that time they will know of his appearance in Mecca and they will go to him to support him.

(These signs) are as the reports have mentioned. Among the total of

these events are some which are bound (to happen) and other which

are conditional. God knows best what will take place. We have only

mentioned them on the basis of what is recounted in basic sources of

tradition (usul) because of their inclusion in traditions which have

been handed down. From God we seek help and Him do we ask for

success.

[Abu al-Hasan 'Ali b. Bilal al-Muhallabi informed me:

Muhammad b. Jafar al-Mu'addib told me on the authority of

Ahmad b. Idris, on the authority of 'Ali b. Muhammad b. Qutayba,

on the authority of al-Fadl b. Shadhan, on the authority of Ismaeil b.

al-Sabbah, who said: I heard an old man among our colleagues

mention on the authority of Sayf b. Umayra, who said:]

I (i.e. Sayf b. 'Umayra) was with Abu Jafar al-Mansur and he said

to me of his own accord: "There will certainly be a voice calling from

the sky the name of a man from the descendants of Abu Talib."

"May I be your ransom, Commander of the faithful," I said, "do

you relate that?"

"Indeed, by Him in Whose hands is my life," he replied, "because

my own ears have heard it."

"Commander of the faithful," I said, "this tradition which you

have heard is before my time."

"Sayf, it is the truth," he told me. "When it happens, we will be the

first to answer it. Indeed the call will be for a man from the

descendants of our uncle."

"A man from the descendants of Fatima, peace be on her?" I

asked.

"Yes," he replied. "Sayf, if it was not for the fact that I have heard

from Abu Jafar Muhammad b. Ali (al-Baqir), who told me about it,

even though all the people of the earth have told me about it, I would

not accept it from them. However it was Muhammad b. Ali (al-

Baqir), peace be on them, (who told me)."

[Yahya b. Abi Talib reported on the authority of Ali b. Asim, on

the authority of Ata' b. al-Sa'ib, on the authority of his father on the

authority of Abd Allah b. Umar, who said:]

The Apostle of God, may God bless him and his family, said: "The

hour (of the end of the world) will not arise until the Mahdi from my

descendants comes forth. The Mahdi will not come forth until sixty

liars come forward, all of them declaring: 'I am a prophet.' "

[al-Fadl b. Shadhan reported on the authority of one who reported

it on the authority of Abu Hamza al-Thumali, who said:]

I (i.e. Abu Hamza al-Thumali) asked Abu Jafar (al-Baqir), peace

be on him: "Is the revolt of the Sufyani one of the things which must

happen?"

"Yes," he replied. "The call is one of the things which must happen

as is the rising of the sun from the west one of the things which must

happen. The dispute of the Abbasids over the state is also one of

them and the killing of the pure soul (al-nafs al-zakiyya). The

appearance of the one who will arise (al-qa'im) from the family of

Muhammad, may God bless him and his family, is another of the

things which must happen."

"How will the call be?" I asked.

"There will be a call from the sky at the beginning of the dayù

indeed the truth is with Ali; and his Shia,'' he said. "Then at the end

of the day, Satan will call from the earth - indeed the truth is with

Uthman and his supporters. At that the false one will feel doubt."

[al-Hasan b. Ali al-Washsha' (reported) on the authority of

Ahmad b. A'idh, on the authority of Abu Khadija, on the authority

of Abu Abd Allah (Ja'far al-Sadiq, peace be on him:]

(Jafar al-Sadiq) said: "The one who will arise (al-qa'im) will not

come forth until twelve of the Banu Hashim come forth before him,

all of them summoning men to themselves."

[Muhammad b. Abi al-Bilad (reported) on the authority of Ali b.

Muhammad al-Azdi, on the authority of his father, on the authority

of his grandfather, who said:]

The Commander of the faithful, peace be on him, said: "Before the

one who will arise (al-qa'im), there will be red death and white death;

there will be locusts at their usual time and at their unusual time like

the colours of blood. As for red death that is (from) the sword,while

white death is (from) plague."

[al-Hasan b. Mahbub (reported) on the authority of 'Amr b. Abi

Miqdam, on the authority of Jabir al-Jufi on the authority of Abu-

Jafar (al-Baqir), peace be on him:]

(Al-Baqir) said: "Stay close to the ground. Don't move an arm or a

leg until you see the signs which I will mention to youùI don't think

that you will live until that time. The Abbasids will dispute; a voice

will call from the sky; one of the villages of Syria called

al-Jabiyya will

be swallowed up; the Turks will occupy the region of al-Jazira; the

Byzantines will attack al-Ramla; at that time there will be much

conflict throughout the land until Syria is destroyed. The cause of its

destruction will be the meeting of three standards there: the standard

of the Red, the standard of the Spotted and the standard of the

Sufyam."

[Ali b. Abi Hamza (reported) on the authority of Abu al-Hasan

Musa, peace be on him:]

Concerning the words of Him, the Mighty and High: We will show

them our signs on the horizons and in themselves so that it will become

clear to them that it is the truth [XLI 53], (Musa) said: "(There will be)

a disturbance on the horizons and the enemies of truth will be

changed in form."

[Wahb b. (Abi) Hafs (reported) on the authority of Abu Basir, who

said:]

I (i.e. Abu Basir) heard Abu Jafar (al-Baqir) speak concerning the

words of Him, the Exalted: If We wish, We will send down on them

signs from the sky, and their necks will remain bent submissively to

them (XXVI 4). He said: "God will do that to them."

"Who are they?" I asked.

"The Umayyads and their supporters," he answered.

"What is the sign?" I asked.

"Between the decline of the sun (at noon) and the time of the

afternoon prayer, the sun will remain still," he said. "The chest and

face of man will appear in the centre of the sun, who will be

recognized by his standing and genealogy. That will occur in the time

of the Sufyani. At that moment his destruction will occur and the

destruction of his people."

[Abd Allah b. Bukayr (reported) on the authority of Abd al-

Malik b. Ismail, on the authority of his father, on the authority of

Said b. Jubayr:]

(Sa'id b. Jubayr) said: "In the year in which the Mahdl will rise,

twenty rain storms will rain on the earth. You will see their effects and

benefits."

[al-Fadl b. Shadhan (reported) on the authority of Ahmad b.

Muhammad b. Abi Nasr , on the authority of Thalaba al-Azdi, who

said:]

Abu Jafar (al-Baqir), peace be on him, said: "Two signs will come

before the one who will arise (al-qa'im), peace be on him: there will be

an eclipse of the sun in the middle of the month of Ramadan and an

eclipse of the moon at the end of it."

"Son of the Apostle of God," I said, "usually the eclipse of the sun

occurs at the end of the month and the eclipse of the moon occurs in

the middle of it?"

"I know what I have said," replied Abu Jafar (al-Baqir), peace be

on him. "They are signs which have not occurred since Adam came

down."

[Thalaba b. Maymun (reported) on the authority of Shuayb al-

Haddad, on the authority of Salih. b. Maytham, who said:]

I (i.e. Salih b. Maytham) heard Abu Jafar (al-Baqir), peace be on

him, say: "There is no longer than fifteen nights between the

appearance of the one who will rise (al-qa'im), peace be on him, and

the killing of the pure soul (al-nafs al-zakiyya)."

[Amr b Shamir (reported) on the authority of Jabir (al-Jufi) who

said:]

I (i.e. Jabir al-Jufi) said to Abu Ja'far (al-Baqir), peace be on him:

"When will this event occur?"

"Jabir, that will occur at a time when the killing between al-Hira

and Kufa is considerable," he replied.

[Muhammad b. Sinan (reported) on the authority of al-Husayn b.

al-Mukhtar, on the authority of Abu Abd Allah (Jafar al-Sadiq),

peace be on him:]

(Ja'far al-Sadiq) said: "When the wall of the mosque of Kufa,

which adjoins the house of Abd Allah b. Masud is destroyed, then at

that time the ruler of the people will disappear. At his disappearance,

the one who will rise (al-qai'im), peace be on him, will come forth."

[sayf b. 'Umayra (reported) on the authority of Bakr b.

Muhammad, on the authority of Abu 'Abd Allah (Jafar al-Sadiq),

peace be on him:]

(Jafar al-Sadiq) said: "There will be three appearances in one year,

one month and one dayùthe Sufyani, the Khurasani and the

Yamam. The standard of guidance will not be among them, except

the standard of the Yamani, because he will summon (people) to the

truth."

[al-Fadl b. Shadhan (reported) on the authority of Ahmad b.

Muhammad b. Abi Nasr, on the authority of Abu al-Hasan al-Rida,

peace be on him:]

(Al-Rida) said: "What you stretch your necks for will not occur

until you are able to discern and to be tested. Only a few of you will

remain."

Then he recited: Alif Lam. Do the people consider that they can

abandon saying " We believe whenever they are tempted? [XXIX 1-2].

He said: "Among the signs of the relief is an event which will occur

between the two mosques (of Mecca and Medina). So-and-so from

the descendants of so-and-so will kill fifteen leaders of the Arabs."

[Al-Fadl b. Shadhan (reported) on the authority of Muammar b.

Khallad, on the authority of Abu al-Hasan (al-Rida), peace be on

him:]

(Al-Rida) said: "(It is as if I see) standards, dyed green, coming

from Egypt until they come to the Syrian (standards). Then they will

be guided to the descendant of the one who gave the testamentary

bequests of authority (to the Imams)."

[Hammad b. Isa (reported) on the authority of Ibrahim b. Umar

al-Yamani on the authority of Abu Basir, on the authority of Abu

Abd Allah (Jafar al-Sadiq), peace be on him:]

(Jafar al-Sadiq) said: "The kingdom of these men will not

disappear until they slaughter people in Kufa on Friday. It is as if I

was looking at heads falling between the Gate of al-Fil and (the place

of) the soap-sellers."

[Ali b. Asbat (reported) on the authority of (Abu) al-Hasan b. al-

Jahm, who said:]

A man asked Abu al-Hasan (Musa), peace be on him, about the

relief. He asked: "Do you want most of it or shall I give you a

summary?"

"Would you give me a summary?" he said.

"(It will be) when the standards of Qays are carried in Egypt and

the standards of Kinda in Khurasan," he replied.

[Al-Husayn b. Abi 'Ala' (reported) on the authority of Abu Basir,

on the authority of Abu Abd Allah (Ja'far al-Sadiq), peace be on

him:]

(Jafar al-Sadiq) said: "Because of the sons of so-and-so there will

be a battle at your mosqueùmeaning the mosque of Kufa. On one

Friday four thousand will be killed between the Gate of al-Fil to (the

place of) the soap-sellers. Beware of this street. Avoid it. Those who

are in the best situation will take the street of the Ansar."

[Ali b. Abi Hamza (reported) on the authority of Abu Basir, on

the authority of Abu 'Abd Allah (Jafar al-Sadiq), peace be on him:]

(Jafar al-Sadiq) said: "Before (the coming of) the one who will rise

(al-qa'im), peace be on him, there will be a year of abundant rain in

which the fruits and the dates on the palms will be destroyed. But

don't complain of that."

[ibrahim b. Muhammad (reported) on the authority of Ja'far b.

Sad, on the authority of his father, on the authority of Abu Abd

Allah (Jafar al-Sadiq), peace be on him:]

(Jafar al-Sadiq) said: "In the year of the Conquest (by the Mahdi)

the Euphrates will flood so that the water goes into the alleys of

Kufa."

[it is reported in the account (hadith) of Muhammad b. Muslim,

who said:]

I (i.e. Muhammad b. Muslim) heard Abu Abd Allah (Jafar al-

Sadiq), peace be on him, say: "Before (the coming) of the one who

will rise (al-qaim) there will be a trial from God."

"May I be your ransom, what is that?" I asked him.

He recited: Let Us test you with fear, with hunger, and with lack of

money, of lives and of harvests. Good news will come to those who are

steadfast [iI 55]. Then he said: "The fear will be from the kings of the

Banu so-and-so; the hunger will be as a result of exorbitant prices; the

lack of money will be due to the failure of trade and the scarcity of

surplus (goods) in it; the lack of lives will be because of swift death;

the lack of harvest will be due to the great rains and the little benefit

they bring to the crops." Then he continued: "The good news for

those who are steadfast is that the one who will rise (al-qa'im) will

soon come forth."

[Al-Husayn b. Sa'id (reported) on the authority of Mundhir al-

Jawzi, on the authority of Abu Abd Allah (Jafar al-Sadiq), peace be

on him:]

(Mundhir al-Jawzi) said: I heard (Ja'far al-Sadiq) say: "Before the

coming of the one who will rise (al-qa'im), peace be on him, the people

will be chided for their acts of disobedience by a fire which will appear

in the sky and a redness which will cover the sky. It will swallow up

Baghdad, it will swallow up Kufa. There blood will be shed and

houses destroyed. Death (fana) will occur amid their people and a

fear will come over the people of Iraq from which they shall have no

rest."

_______________________________________________________

The usual criteria applies to the signs. Some are conditional, some are definite, some are literal, some are symbolic.

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I find the whole thing unbelievable, not that I’m denying that it is happening. It just that I’m sure every neighbor of Iraq can press some claim to Iraqi territory. Once the process begins, where will it stop? To my mind this can only end with the dissolution of Iraq as a country.

Will the America government allow it?

Will the Iraqi government allow it?

Will the UN even debate it?

BTW: That is an American M60A3 tank being transported forward to save the tread life of the tank. When not in combat this is the most economical way to move armor short of using a rail link. It also shows the Turks know what they are doing. Moving armor on treads wears it out and destroys the road network.

This blog is worth reading:

http://kavips.wordpress.com/2007/08/01/his...raq-iran-syria/

'With the possibility of full-scale Turkish military operations beginning in northern Iraq in the coming weeks, both U.S. and Turkish strategists must realize that any clash between the Turkish military and U.S.-supported Iraqi Kurds who back their PKK brethren, is a political disaster in waiting'.

Beauty in the Beast

While our focus has been on impeachment, the US is gearing up for what may be the beginning of the final war of Armageddon. Despite sounding like a generous dish of hyperbole, there are some reported points of view that this administration is hell bent on maintaining control over its Evangelical base by orchestrating a WWIII that originates in the Middle East. Not only will it originate in the Middle East, mind you, but in the very location of the Garden of Eden itself. That should provide a convenient full circle…………

We should be concerned because no one talks about it, for just in its concept, it is way too bizarre of a belief to be taken seriously. Historically it can be compared to the outlandish inner sanctum whispers in and around the Third Reich during the late 30’s, “psst…..there are rumors that he plans to exterminate every one of them that is alive today in Europe.”

For if the above ridiculous assertion were to be proven true, then perhaps we could then have at least some motive as to why the middle administration officials are stymied and blocked from making real progress, while the captains of the Titanic, retire to their quarters after ordering a “full steam ahead.”

The Titanic actually provides a very good metaphor for this administration. Everyone on deck can see a collision is eminent. Meanwhile those unconcerned drink and dance in the staterooms below. Those in charge, the senior officials under the sway of the republican mantra, prance around completely unworried about real events even as their administration unravels around them?

So how does the end of the world pan out? It starts with our support for Turkey’s elimination of the PKK, the Kurdish terrorist organization that has been responsible for 35,000 Turkish deaths since its beginning in 1984.

Common knowledge says that Green Berets, CIA, or both have already been inserted into the Kurdistan region and are now actively pursuing “intel” on the 3500 of the estimated PKK guerrillas living near the Turkish-Iranian border region.

The first question to pop up is this: why would we invest more time and money to suppress the Kurds who were the most supportive of our Iraqi adventure, and who controlled the most stable of those three regions of Iraq? Why?

First, for the Cheney opponents, the regional Kurdish government has NOT been supportive of the Bush/Cheney Oil grab. They have independently made two oil deals themselves(with Norway and Turkey even) that have NOT been sanctioned by the US provisional government’s Iraqi parliament. Kurdistan will stand to make a much larger percentage off of the profits from each well, then would any of other provinces if the Iraqi HydroCarbons Act, the Oil bill, ever gets passed.

By bringing hostilities into an area previously tame by comparison to say, the Sunni province, we are effectively using the military to put a hold on any oil deal previously made, even if we were ineffective in stopping it politically. As long as there are hostilities occurring in that region, no oil company can capitalize on its contract,and rush in and invest, no matter how lucrative the oil revenues might be………

Armageddon in the Garden of Eden

Another difficulty for the US position, is that the Kurds tend to provide the most reliable units in the reformed Iraqi national army. The Kurdish section of the local police bureau has taken part in recent counter-terrorism operations in Baghdad and other parts of the country that are dominated by Sunni or Shiite political factions. To have the US either sponsor or carry out attacks on Kurds within the Kurd’s homeland, could alienate our staunchest domestic ally, right there in Iraq.

Another interesting development is the new alignment occurring as we speak within the Middle East that is occurring as a direct result of US military involvement in Iraq. Turkey as alway been considered as one of our staunchest allies ever since the advent of the cold war……Iran has been considered one of our most vilified enemies ever since the fall of the Shah. But currently Turkey and Iran are working together to eliminate the PKK in the US controlled northern Iraq.

What? Screech. Halt. Bang. Crash………

Turkey and Iran have quietly worked out a reciprocal security arrangement, whereby Iran’s military will engage Kurdish separatists whenever encountered, in exchange for Turkey’s cooperation against the Iranian Mujahideen-e-Khalq movement (MEK), a well-armed and cult-like opposition group that previously found refuge in Saddam Hussein’s Iraq.

Both Iranian officials and Turkey’s prime minister have alluded to “mechanisms” (likely to involve intelligence-sharing) already in place to deal with security issues of mutual interest. Neither Turkey nor Iran has any desire to see an independent Kurdish state established in northern Iraq. For the moment, Turkey’s cooperation with Iran is achieving better results than its frustrating inability to persuade the United States to help eliminate a designated terrorist group in northern Iraq.

Stock footage of a future war zone?

In a recent interview, Erdogan vowed that Turkey would not allow attacks on its neighbors from its territory, adding, in an obvious allusion to Iran, that all countries had a right to pursue the development of a peaceful nuclear energy program (Milliyet, March 12).

One can remember the reports that Israel and the U.S. Department of Defense were providing clandestine support to Kurdish PJAK “terrorists,” operating in the northwestern Iranian border region, questioning the usefulness of such a policy in countering Iran’s nuclear ambitions or destabilizing the country in advance of a military strike. Since then, there have been further allegations that the CIA is using its classified budget to support terrorist operations by disaffected members of Iran’s ethnic minorities, including Azeris, Baloch, Kurds and Arabs (Sunday Telegraph, February 25).

Iran may be expected to continue aggressive military operations against Kurdish militants to keep its border region secure in a politically volatile period, while continuing to demonstrate to Turkey its usefulness as a security partner in contrast to U.S. reluctance to undertake anti-Kurdish military activities. U.S. intervention in northern Iraq’s Kurdistan region could create a new wave of destabilization in Iraq, as well as diverting U.S. resources from a confrontation with Iran (a result no doubt desired by Tehran).

A Turkish incursion will likely have limited scope and objectives, although it will likely include at least two divisions (20,000 men each) with support units. The last major cross-border operation 10 years ago involved 40,000 Turkish troops. With the greater distance to PKK bases at Mount Qandil from the Turkish border, a first wave of helicopter-borne assault troops might follow strikes by the Turkish Air Force. An assault on Mount Qandil will prove difficult even without opposition from Iraqi Kurdish forces. More ambitious plans are likely to have been drawn up by Turkish staff planners for a major multi-division offensive as far south as Kirkuk if such an operation is deemed necessary.

A Turkish newspaper has reported that General Ralston has already negotiated a deal with the KRG to permit a Turkish attack on Mount Qandil in April (Zaman, March 25).

Conclusion

While tensions peak on the border, the time has in many ways never been better for a resolution to the Turkish-Kurdish conflict. From captivity, Abdullah Ocalan appears ready to concede Turkey’s territorial unity in exchange for stronger local governments. He recently stated, “The problems of Turkey’s Kurds can only be solved under a unitary structure. This is why Turkey’s Kurds should look to Ankara and nowhere else for a solution” (Zaman, March 26). Turkish investment in northern Iraq is far preferable to having Turkish tanks and artillery massed menacingly along the border. If the KRG was intending to keep the PKK as a card to use in coercing Turkish support for Kurdish autonomy, it may be time to play it. PKK morale is low and prolonged inactivity under the aging leadership will ultimately send many fighters back to their villages. The movement is hardly in a position to mount an effective offensive. Without state sponsorship, the PKK is poorly armed and supplied. The KRG’s limited hospitality is hardly a replacement for Syrian patronage. Massoud Barzani has urged face-to-face talks on the PKK problem with Turkish leaders, who have also recently indicated openness to discussion (NTV, February 26). Turkey’s continuing conflict with the Kurds in turn,jeopardizes its candidacy for European Union membership. With the possibility of full-scale Turkish military operations beginning in northern Iraq in the coming weeks, both U.S. and Turkish strategists must realize that any clash between the Turkish military and U.S.-supported Iraqi Kurds who back their PKK brethren, is a political disaster in waiting.

Whereas common sense says to stand down, and wait for possible provocation, the Cheney arm of the Bush administration has pushed for a full steam ahead affront on the Kurdish guerrillas. The Turkish troops are there, at least in Cheney’s eyes, to intimidate the Kurds to support the Hydrocarbon Oil deal.

“Look you Kurds. If you don’t stand behind my oil bill you won’t have an semiautonomous region to call your home. You will be under Turkish control! Got it?”

Why the flames are being fanned, and why the administration stands by with cans of gasoline, they are not saying. However to most rational people, this oil piece of the puzzle offers some sincere motive behind the otherwise insane mechanizations of this administration.

To others; those whose defections most worry this administration, these actions double as proving that the Armageddon’s scenario is taking shape

_________________________________________________________________________

Armageddon Scenario it is! ;) Foretold centuries ago by the Infallible Shia Imams (as) ! Accurately!

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Ahemdinejadaidjad (cant spell his name lol) said he thinks the world will end in around 2 years. Is it wrong to feel excited? I know it is, but hey, since this prophecy is already becoming fulfilled, we know the good guys will prevail! :D GO IRAN

SUBHANALLAH!

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Ahemdinejadaidjad (cant spell his name lol) said he thinks the world will end in around 2 years. Is it wrong to feel excited? I know it is, but hey, since this prophecy is already becoming fulfilled, we know the good guys will prevail! :D GO IRAN

SUBHANALLAH!

Ahmedinejad never said that the world will end in two years. He publicly prays for the return of the Imam (atf) and has stated that the aim/purpose of his government is to pave the way for the Imam's return. Which should be every momin's hope and prayer. We all hope and pray however, that with every passing day we are getting close to the event. However, no one can place a time frame on the event and claim that it will happen in so many years or any specific year. The knowledge of that it only with the Almighty, though we can eagerly identify and tick off the signs we have been given preceding the Holy Imam's (atf) return.

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(salam)

Alright thank you. Seems like you are correct. This prophecy is about to be fulfilled.

The USA is trying very hard to talk the Turks out of making this incursion. Though the sentiment in Turkey is very strong for some decisive action against the PKK. We live in interesting times, as the Chinese say.

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Another part of that hadith about the Turk attracted my attention: that the Arabs will regain Palestine from the foreign entity Israel. If this is true, then ALLAHU AKBAR.

Get ready and get others ready. Spread awareness and raise a flag in your house. Prepare, prepare, prepare.

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Another part of that hadith about the Turk attracted my attention: that the Arabs will regain Palestine from the foreign entity Israel. If this is true, then ALLAHU AKBAR.

Get ready and get others ready. Spread awareness and raise a flag in your house. Prepare, prepare, prepare.

The 'foreign authority' is now present not just in Palestine but in Iraq as well. Not to speak of the military bases in other Arab lands from Egypt through to Muscat. Perhaps there would be a general uprising against the 'foreign authority'- a widespread revolution.

Seems like a far cry for now, but then it seemed the same way when the Shah of Iran was in full glory not that long ago.

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The 'foreign authority' is now present not just in Palestine but in Iraq as well. Not to speak of the military bases in other Arab lands from Egypt through to Muscat. Perhaps there would be a general uprising against the 'foreign authority'- a widespread revolution.

Seems like a far cry for now, but then it seemed the same way when the Shah of Iran was in full glory not that long ago.

According to the sources above, nowhere does it say that this event is certain or conditional, right? Therefore, we must remain on our toes.

I swear by Allah that for the past month, I have felt more anxious about the Zuhoor than I have ever felt in my life. I truly believe the time is near. Masjid e Kufa is going through renovation "to prepare for his coming", President Ahmadinejad is doing what he can for that eventful day, and the signs are continuing to be fulfilled, one by one. We must not wait, but anticipate.

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According to the sources above, nowhere does it say that this event is certain or conditional, right? Therefore, we must remain on our toes.

I swear by Allah that for the past month, I have felt more anxious about the Zuhoor than I have ever felt in my life. I truly believe the time is near. Masjid e Kufa is going through renovation "to prepare for his coming", President Ahmadinejad is doing what he can for that eventful day, and the signs are continuing to be fulfilled, one by one. We must not wait, but anticipate.

Not that I am aware- about it being conditional or definite. Given the ground realities as they appear to be, it seems more than likely for now that the Turks do intend to venture beyond the border to take on the PKK. The US is strongly opposed to it. The Turkish population is yelling out for revenge. The Turkish government is caught between obliging its own people versus the USA. Will be interesting to watch how the events pan out.

Who's renovating the Masjid e Kufa?

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Not that I am aware- about it being conditional or definite. Given the ground realities as they appear to be, it seems more than likely for now that the Turks do intend to venture beyond the border to take on the PKK. The US is strongly opposed to it. The Turkish population is yelling out for revenge. The Turkish government is caught between obliging its own people versus the USA. Will be interesting to watch how the events pan out.

Who's renovating the Masjid e Kufa?

I don't know who is, but a relative of mine recently went for Ziyarat to Iraq. She told me it's being renovated for the purpose of preparation for the Zuhoor.

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I don't know who is, but a relative of mine recently went for Ziyarat to Iraq. She told me it's being renovated for the purpose of preparation for the Zuhoor.

May the innocent and oppressed be avenged and vindicated. May the Awaited return soon! May the world be rid of all forms of tyranny. May the tyrants be dispatched to Hell.

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Turks discuss attacks inside Iraq

Turkey's political and military leaders are to meet to discuss the details of a possible offensive into northern Iraq against Kurdish PKK rebels.

Earlier on Wednesday, Turkish artillery resumed their shelling of PKK positions across the Iraqi border.

There have also been reports of air strikes against guerrilla camps - though Turkish officials denied this.

Turkey has said it will use force unless Iraq takes action against rebels on its territory.

Iraqi Prime Minister Nouri Maliki said on Tuesday he would work to limit the PKK's activities, adding that the group's offices in Iraq would be closed.

In the past week, Turkey has been building up its military presence on the border with Iraq, while PKK rebels have stepped up their attacks against Turkish troops.

Nato defence ministers are due to discuss the situation at a meeting in the Netherlands.

Public pressure

Turkish President Abdullah Gul is expected to chair a meeting of the National Security Council, attended by military top brass and senior ministers, to discuss their next steps in the crisis.

Meanwhile Hurriyet newspaper quoted Deputy Prime Minister Cemil Cicek as saying that Turkish F-16 bombers had flown at least 20km (12.4 miles) into Iraqi territory and struck guerrilla training camps.

Other Turkish officials later denied the reports.

There are thought to be about 3,000 PKK rebels based in Iraq. They have been blamed for a number of cross-border raids.

The rebels claim to have captured several troops following an attack on Sunday that left 12 soldiers dead. The Turkish military says eight soldiers are missing.

Since the attacks, Turkish leaders have come under intense pressure from the public and the media to use force.

Foreign Minister Ali Babacan said on Tuesday that Turkey would put an emphasis on a diplomatic solution, but rejected a ceasefire with the rebels.

Turkey, along with the US and EU, describes the PKK as a terrorist organisation.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/europe/7059721.stm

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"Without good intelligence, just sending large numbers of troops across the border (from Turkey) or dropping bombs doesn't seem to make much sense to me," Gates said.

Open your big mouth, humiliate a supposed ally and prompt them into making a full fledged invasion into Iraq!

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I'm sorry to burst you bubble but.... even if this is a true prophecy.... hasn't it already been fulfilled? Back during the Ottoman Empire?

Possibly. But then 'the Turk' had occupied far more than the region of just Al Jazira. Much, if not all of Arab lands were ruled by the Ottomans. The prophecy- if referring to the Ottaman rule- would have been more apt in saying that the 'Turk would occupy/rule the Arab'.

Anyway, I tended to relate that hadith to the potential invasion and occupation of Kurdistan as it seems to be in the offing now. But then, maybe this has already been fulfilled. That would please me all the more. The sooner the Faraj occurs the better.

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Possibly. But then 'the Turk' had occupied far more than the region of just Al Jazira. Much, if not all of Arab lands were ruled by the Ottomans. The prophecy- if referring to the Ottaman rule- would have been more apt in saying that the 'Turk would occupy/rule the Arab'.

Anyway, I tended to relate that hadith to the potential invasion and occupation of Kurdistan as it seems to be in the offing now. But then, maybe this has already been fulfilled. That would please me all the more. The sooner the Faraj occurs the better.

I agree. I gotta get my act together.

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I dont recall any turks being in the middle east region in the time of the prophet (s) to speak about turks to some arabs which didnt even know that killing their children was wrong

but i do recall some turkish slaves during the time of emam Zeinol Abidin (a)

there were many fabricated hadiths during ottoman times about turks, some of the famous ones are

"Satan pees in the ear" (popular turkish saying)

"Do not fight the turks" (refering to the arabs under the ottoman empire)

and i think this one would fit in the category?

Really when prophet (s) spoke about other people he was not always direct

sometimes he would say "Seek knowledge even if it takes you to the east" (people believe this is china)

or

If he would refer to persians (who were present in mohamads S time) he would point to salman and say "his people"

we can make it out to be anything we believe

Edited by Rubaiyat
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I had not heard of such a narration. The main problem I am having in hearing it is that the Turks were not, to my knowledge, one of the peoples of the area in that time. What is now Turkey was a Greek area, the Byzantine Empire. Turks did not even arrive in the mideast until the advance of the Mongols, when they swept West out of Central Asia. I'd be surprised if anyone in the early Islamic period in the Mideast had even heard of Turks.

I always think of the Turks as Middle Eastern invaders. They arent "real" or "genuine" Middle Easterners. They migrated to the Middle East from Central Asia after the expansion of the Ummayad Islamic/Arab Empire. Persians, like their other Aryan/Iranic counter-affiliates, are native to this region. They belong to the Iranian plateau, which is now predominantly known as the Islamic Republic of Iran and Azerbaijan. The Arabs and Jews, like their other Semitic counter-affiliates (Assyrians, etc), also are native to this region. They originated from the Arabian Peninsula and the Levant. The Kurds, also Iranic, are native to these lands. However, the Turks (alongside other Turkic tribes) are typically Central Asian. They are, until today, regarded as invaders by certain scholars. Technically speaking they arent native to their proclaimed homeland, Turkey. Turkey, otherwise known as Anatolia in ancient history, belongs to the Hittites, a Hellenic group of people who share similar cultural backgrounds to Greeks and Macedonians.

The Turks began their invasion into the Middle East before the Mongol Empire. The Seljuk Turk Empire was the first Turkic empire in the Middle East, which ruled over Persian territories. It wasnt native to the Iranians, so technically speaking the Iranians were under occupation during that time. However, the empire was very "Persianized", culturally and linguistically, therefore many people mistakenly considered the Seljuk Empire to be a Persian Empire. It was infact Turkic, but had been heavily influenced by Persian art, culture and language. Therefore today many scholars call it a "Persianate" dynasty, to "pretend to resemble Persianism". :)

Yep, thats a history lesson for 'ya lol. The Middle East is such a rich cultural entity, I love it! :!!!:

================

Black Ink: It may or may not be a prophecy. First of all, these may refer to the Seljuk Turks, or the Ottomans, or the many other Turkic dynasties which were established and collapsed hundreds of years ago. Or this could refer to the late Turkish empire.

If not, then it still isnt a prophecy. Technically speaking Northern Iraq, Kurdistan, is NOT Al-Jazera or part of Al-Jazera. Its part of Mesapotamia.

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I always think of the Turks as Middle Eastern invaders. They arent "real" or "genuine" Middle Easterners. They migrated to the Middle East from Central Asia after the expansion of the Ummayad Islamic/Arab Empire. Persians, like their other Aryan/Iranic counter-affiliates, are native to this region. They belong to the Iranian plateau, which is now predominantly known as the Islamic Republic of Iran and Azerbaijan. The Arabs and Jews, like their other Semitic counter-affiliates (Assyrians, etc), also are native to this region. They originated from the Arabian Peninsula and the Levant. The Kurds, also Iranic, are native to these lands. However, the Turks (alongside other Turkic tribes) are typically Central Asian. They are, until today, regarded as invaders by certain scholars. Technically speaking they arent native to their proclaimed homeland, Turkey. Turkey, otherwise known as Anatolia in ancient history, belongs to the Hittites, a Hellenic group of people who share similar cultural backgrounds to Greeks and Macedonians.

The Turks began their invasion into the Middle East before the Mongol Empire. The Seljuk Turk Empire was the first Turkic empire in the Middle East, which ruled over Persian territories. It wasnt native to the Iranians, so technically speaking the Iranians were under occupation during that time. However, the empire was very "Persianized", culturally and linguistically, therefore many people mistakenly considered the Seljuk Empire to be a Persian Empire. It was infact Turkic, but had been heavily influenced by Persian art, culture and language. Therefore today many scholars call it a "Persianate" dynasty, to "pretend to resemble Persianism". :)

Yep, thats a history lesson for 'ya lol. The Middle East is such a rich cultural entity, I love it! :!!!:

================

Black Ink: It may or may not be a prophecy. First of all, these may refer to the Seljuk Turks, or the Ottomans, or the many other Turkic dynasties which were established and collapsed hundreds of years ago. Or this could refer to the late Turkish empire.

If not, then it still isnt a prophecy. Technically speaking Northern Iraq, Kurdistan, is NOT Al-Jazera or part of Al-Jazera. Its part of Mesapotamia.

Thank you for that history lesson.

The region Al Jazira, according to Wikipedia, includes parts of today's northern Iraq and eastern Syria.

The sign quoted is a part of a series of events foretold as precursors to the return of the Imam (atf). It seems on the face of it that if the Turks invade and occupy parts of northern Iraq- whether you chose to call that part Kurdistan or Mesopotamia or Al Jazira- this 'sign' would appear to be executed.

The return of the Imam is an inevitable event. The signs are sometimes a matter of interpretation. The Faraj does not hinge on some of these 'signs' occurring. It doesn't worry me in the least if the Turkish army crosses the border and occupies that region or it does not. However, if it does, it would appear that this sign- as recorded and reported for over 10 centuries- has come to pass.

Either way, we are a day closer to the return of the Mahdi (atf) with each glorious and majestic spin of the earth. In whatever direction. Watch out for the Sun rising from the West! That would be something, wouldn't it?

Edited by Black Ink
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