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Does God Has The Ability To Do Evil?

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attributes such as the Seeing, the Hearing, the Wise, the Preceding One - these are attributes of essence but linked to the world of creation

Actually, they aren't linked to the created world.

Chapter On Attribute Of Essence (Sifat al-DhDhat) Of Allah

H 284, Ch. 12, h 1

Ali ibn Ibrahim has narrated from Muhammad ibn Khalid al-Tayalisi from Safwan ibn Yahya from ibn Maskan from abu Basir who has said the following.

"I heard abu ‘Abdallah (a.s.) saying, ‘The Exalted, the Glorious, Allah, our Lord, is Eternal. Knowledge is His self even if there is nothing to be known. Hearing is His self even if there is nothing to be heard. Seeing is His-self even when there is nothing to be seen. Power is His self even if there is nothing to feel the power. When He brought things into existence the perceptible objects became the objects of His knowledge, His hearing applied to audible objects, His seeing to visible objects and His power to the objects that feel power.’"

Abu Basir adds; "I further asked, ‘Has Allah always been in motion?" He replied, "Allah is High Exalted above that. Motion is an attribute that is created through action." I asked, "Did Allah always have the ability to speak?" He replied, " Speech is a created attribute and not an eternal one. Allah, the Majestic, the Glorious, existed when there was nothing able to speak."

http://www.al-shia.com/html/eng/books/hadi.../part3-ch12.htm

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I have seen that hadith b4.. That explanation is necessary because those are listed as essential attributes. I am not denying that they are attributes of essence. What I want to know is how He was Hearing, Seeing, Wise when there was nothing but Him. Hearing, Seeing what? If it was His own self, then yes, I understand. And although i cn to some extent understand that wisdom ought to b zaati, it too is always reflected in action. Also for qadeem, there has to be a second, which would make that attribute seem like an attribute of Action but it is listed under Sifat e Zaat.

I have been shown other explanations. It is when the Imam was asked if Allah was always seeing, hearing (and even knowing was added, which only confuses things further), he replied: No, how could He and there was nothing to be seen, heard (for the respective attributes) and how is it possible that there be knowledge but the known isnt? Rather He has always been the Aleem, Samee and Baseer, and -Now if you can understand urdu, then good because I wasn't able to get a very good translation in English of the folllowing sentence- Imam continued: "Woh allama, sameea, baseera wali zaat hai".

And another hadith where the Imam said something similar, that it is proper to say that He has been Baseer 4ever but it is not correct to say that He was always seeing (in Urdu, "yeh kehna durust nahi ki Woh hamesha se dekhne wala hai").

n another where Imam says that by Samee is meant that voices arent hidden from Him and by Baseer that all that which can b seen by the eyes is not hidden from Him.

And then there is the hadith which has the Imam explaining to the narrator what is meant by Hearing and Seeing. He says by Seeing is meant that He was seeing those things which cant be seen but could be heard. And by Hearing, v.v.

^^The above 2 I have understood. And so I said that they are attributes linked to creation. If there was to be no creation, nothing to be ever heard or seen, then what is meant by their being attributes of essence?

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And so I said that they are attributes linked to creation. If there was to be no creation, nothing to be ever heard or seen, then what is meant by their being attributes of essence?

They are attributes of essence because Allah has always possessed the ability to hear/see. Even when there was nothing to be seen or heard. This ability to see/hear is not distinct from His self ("Allah is All-hearing, All-seeing. He hears without any organ and sees without any instrument. He Himself hears and He Himself sees." and "Allah, the Most High, indeed is above all things. He is All-hearing and All-seeing. He hears with what He sees, and sees with what He hears." source). So even before creation, He possessed this ability, and hence He was always hearing/seeing. After creation, this ability just applied to the created things. ("When He brought things into existence the perceptible objects became the objects of His knowledge, His hearing applied to audible objects, His seeing to visible objects and His power to the objects that feel power.") So these attributes being those of essence is a result of the fact that Allah has always possessed these attributes. But He was not eternally hearing or seeing things, since before creation there was nothing to hear or see.

I think the issue here is what one means by "Hearing"/"Seeing" when we use these terms. Do we mean that Allah has always possessed the ability to Hear/See? Or do we mean that He has always been hearing/seeing things? The first meaning related to the essential attribute of "Hearing/Seeing", so if we are referring to the first meaning, then, yes, Allah is eternally "Hearing/Seeing". But if we are referring to the action of hearing/seeing, as stated in the second meaning, then, no, Allah is not eternally hearing/seeing, since before creation there was nothing to hear or see.

Also for qadeem, there has to be a second,

Not really. "Qadeem" simply means "eternal", not "first", so there does not have to be a second if we describe Allah as "qadeem".

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Evil is absence of goodness

Well that depends. Imagine a world where there was only bad stuff. Raping, stealing, lying all the time.

Evil would lose its meaning. Evil is only bad compared to good.

Same way as good would lose it's meaning without evil :angel:

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Well that depends. Imagine a world where there was only bad stuff. Raping, stealing, lying all the time.

Evil would lose its meaning. Evil is only bad compared to good.

Same way as good would lose it's meaning without evil :angel:

when we establish that God exist and the debate is on His attribute (wether He have the ability to do Evil), then goodness of God is a ratioanal fact. Since God in his entireity exist with all the perfections hence absence of the perfection is evil.

Hence he do not posses the capacity to do evil.

It is same as God cannot have a child. niether he is born out any parents.

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Roughly the definition of God is....

God is omniscience, omnipotence, omnipresence, perfect goodness, divine simplicity, and eternal and necessary existence (absolute existence).

As God is omnipotence i.e. He is all powerfull.. Though he wont do evil but Does he has the ability to do Evil????

Wassalam and Khuda Hafiz

Qaseem

Lol brother, your answer is in your question itself. You just defined God through many of his titles, and tell me who is God? The one who is all powerful and have the full authority over everything? Right? If so, then why ask if he has the ability to do evil? Ofcourse he can lol...God is the one who has the ultimate authority over everything, from the tiniest to the largest.

But if he doesnt do evil, is because hes All Merciful! But that doesnt mean, he doesnt have the ability to not do evil, but he wont. Evil are caused by ourself. Wanna get rid of evil, come to the door of Allah(swt) and ask for some mercy from the bottom of your heart...your prayers will be accepted, Guaranteed!

GOD IS LISTENING!

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In religious debate we have two kinds of world; real one (takween) and legislation world (tashree). First one is God's act area and second related to human deeds.

Most of oppose views on both sides derives of replacing of two areas.

Good and evil related to our deeds not God; it's meaningless to judge about God's acts by good and evil. All beings in the universe even our juridical practices are counted God act, and according to this view point there aren't any evil in the world, for instance; matrimony is legal and good, adultery is unlawful and evil but if we compare both, they are as same as each other; desire, power to do sex by male, acceptance by female and feel pleasure. There is only one thing that is evil, disobey of God's command that belongs to legislation world. God is wise and sheer good; if He decides to do evil it needs to a source in inherent of God, while He is wise and sheer good; an explicit antithesis!

Yea there is another fact that must to be justified; one of God's names is "seducer"; (mozil) and Satan is its showing!

___________________________

http://kowthar.blogspot.com/

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Bismillahi Irrahman Irrahiim

Allahumma sallialaa Muhammed wa Aaali Muhammed wa Aazjel farajazhum

Assalamu aleikum wa rahmatulahi wa barkatuh Dear Sisters and Brother

"Can Allah do evil"? Allah can not do evil, beacouse evil is rejection of Allahs will, and Allah can not reject His own will. Undertanding this person must ponder, and understand where all good is coming from, and that all good is coming from Allah. And person must understand that there is always possibilyt to place thing is a right way, which means justice, and understand that Allah has created everything whit inner purpouse and given humans and jinns free will to put things in right place, or wrong place. Allah can not do evil, but men and jinn can, beacouse men and jinns can reject the merciful and just good will of Allah.

Fii iman Allah.

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That is like asking if water can make a thing dry. The nature of water is wetness, hence water, by its nature, makes things wet, not dry. Similarly, God, by His nature, is Good, hence He can do only Good, not evil.

beautiful answer, mashaallah

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Some things are beyong the logical boundaries of power....

as brother "fyst" has given all the intro I will only give some examples...

Like if someone would say write your name on water u would say I have the power to write but the water does not have the ability to let anything be written on it....

or A man who is very good at sewing clothes... Give him rock and sand and tell him to sew u a dress..

what would he say.... The rock and sand do not have the power to be sewed. It does not imply that the man is not good at sewing....

Can u chew water????? No... If someone questions ur ability to chew then he is mad because the water lacks the ability to be chewed.

Wassalam and kHudahafiz.

Beautiful response, brother! but can you explain to me the relation between Gods ability to the good or evil with that analogy?

Thank you

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Roughly the definition of God is....

God is omniscience, omnipotence, omnipresence, perfect goodness, divine simplicity, and eternal and necessary existence (absolute existence).

As God is omnipotence i.e. He is all powerfull.. Though he wont do evil but Does he has the ability to do Evil????

Wassalam and Khuda Hafiz

Qaseem

by Evil you probably mean Wrath as opposed to Mercy, if we use Quranic jargon. are you saying that God is not Wrathful? He surely is! God is both Merciful and Wrathful.

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What kind of question is that bro? God created hell man. wth.

hell is not evil. its one of the manifestations of god's justice system: punishments and rewards. evil men end in hell.

is prison evil?

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is prison evil?

Yes.

God created light and the lack of it (darkness)

Similarly, God created goodness and the lack of it (evil)

and in the same vein (?)..

God created happiness (e.g. Paradise) and the lack of it (hell)

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(salam)

If God didn't create evil then who did? Its like saying that someone else took part in creation, like say, Iblees.

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no brother

god did not create evil. evil is injustice, oppression, rejection of god's guidance etc. man creates evil through his misuse of his faculty of freewill which is why the angels objected when god presented to them his vicegerent on earth "'Will you place in it one who would spread corruption in it and shed blood while we proclaim Your praise and sanctify You?'"

The universe is based on natural laws that are all good. Man, the vicegerent placed on Earth above all creatures, can through his freewill either use these laws to do good or bad. God created man with certain powers, which he could exercise under certain limitations, and it is the exercise of these powers in one way or another that produces good or evil. For instance, God has gifted man with the power of speech, which he can use either to do good or evil to humanity, either to tell a truth and say a good word, or to utter falsehood and slander. Similarly man has been endowed with numerous other powers which may be used either for good or for evil. For example science can be applied for mankind's benefits as well as for its destruction, a knife can be used for peeling fruits or for killing people etc. Evil is created through the misuse of man's faculty of free will.

the idea of an evil god or a god being the source of evil is more of a christian idea with their concept of a sinful nature unwillingly placed in them which makes them lean towards sin and they are accountable when sinning while its the natural result of this defect placed in them in the first place! this is injustice or evil.

they also believe in predetermination meaning that god predetermined criminals' faiths..very strange

if by "absence of good" you mean hardships, then this is not evil

and your analogy of light & darkness with good and evil is flawed as god created both light and dark

28:73"And out of His mercy He has made for you the night and the day, that you may rest therein, and that you may seek of His grace, and that you may give thanks"

Edited by Nad_M

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Shiavites Creed

Belief number ten

Regarding the goodness of all.

Shiva’s followers all believe there is no intrinsic evil. Evil has no source, unless the source of evil’s seeming be ignorance itself. They are truly compassionate, knowing that ultimately there is no good or bad. All is Shiva’s will. Aum

Peace

Satyaban

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Here is the exact wording of the Haddith Qudsi:

And when he thinks that good is from Me and evil is from satan, he has denied My Lordship and made Iblis (satan) My partner.

Here is Quranic support of the Haddith:

Al-Baqara 102 ÈöÓۡãö ٱááåö ٱáÑøóÍۡãóÜٰäö ٱáÑøóÍöíãö

They followed what the evil ones gave out (falsely) against the power of Solomon; the blasphemers were not Solomon but the evil ones, teaching men magic and such things as came down at Babylon to the angels Harut, and Marut. But neither of these taught anyone (such things) without saying: "We are only for trial; so do not blaspheme." They learned from them the means to sow discord between man and wife. But they could not thus harm anyone except by Allah's permission. And they learned what harmed them not what profited them. And they knew that the buyers of (magic) would have no share in the happiness of the Hereafter. And vile was the price for which they did sell their souls, if they but knew! (102)

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