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In the Name of God بسم الله

Muslims Grooming White Girls

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Haji 2003

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http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/news/uk/c...icle2237940.ece

This story in the Sunday Times reports:

A hidden world in which Asian men “groom” young white girls for sex has been exposed with the jailing yesterday of two men for child-abuse offences.

What's very interesting is the reaction of the readers:

1. Hindus saying we don't want to be lumped with Muslims, so don't refer to these people as Asian.

2. Hindus saying that this is all because of deviant Muslim culture and this sort of thing is not practised by us

3. White Britons saying that Muslims are raping girls around the country and its due to their repressive religion.

4. White Britons saying that this sort of story is not often reported.

5. Now and again someone says that just because a few people have been convicted does not mean you can label the entire community the same way.

Reminds me of the early years of the Nazi party in Germany, slow but relentless demonisation of a community.

This is heading in one direction and Muslims should be aware of it.

The irony is that when the prejudice genie is let out of the bottle it does not discriminate and the Hindus and Jews who are so happy to put the boot in to the Muslims now will also feel its effects.

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Im not sure why they need to put a label on the race of the pair. Two people hardly constitutes an ethnic group.

Every other week there is a (white) paedeophile ring exposed in the UK.

Let's think this through.

If an observant Muslim were to suddenly rape someone you could with a massive stretch of the imagination say that because his desires had been repressed by religion for so long they needed a sudden release.

But these men, handing out ecstasy and alcohol over a period of time, are hardly observant Muslims. I am sure they would not worry too much about buying the services of a prostitute, or getting a girlfriend, so how can Islamic oppression be used to describe their actions - as a lot of Times readers seem to be suggesting.

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What's very interesting is the reaction of the readers:

1. Hindus saying we don't want to be lumped with Muslims, so don't refer to these people as Asian.

Not Muslims in general, but Pakistanis in particular.

Hindus and Sikhs from India do not like to be lumped along with Pakistanis as "Asians" or even "South Asians" because of the negativity associated with Pakistanis in UK.

Reminds me of the early years of the Nazi party in Germany, slow but relentless demonisation of a community.

Is it not a fact that Pakistani community in the UK occupies the bottom rung in the society, in terms of unemployment, illiteracy, crimes and proportion in jails etc ?

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/uk_news/4434146.stm

Half of children from Indian working class families went into professional or managerial posts, compared with 43% of white children, it found.

But Pakistani and Bangladeshi children did worse than some white children.

..

The study found proportionally more ethnic minority children appeared able to do better than their parents.

The report attributed this to their parents encouraging them to stick at education.

'Under-performance'

However, those from Pakistani and Bangladeshi communities were found to under-perform compared with white children from working class families.

"The Pakistanis [tracked in the figures] were less likely to end up in professional/managerial families even when taking their backgrounds and their own educational level into account," said the report.

http://www.dailytimes.com.pk/default.asp?p...25-4-2007_pg3_1

In the United Kingdom the situation is alarming. Because Pakistanis are the majority community among the British Muslims, they make headlines more often for their behaviour. Since they have dual nationality Pakistan cannot be exempted from responsibility. Here, too, a new policy about who should visit the UK for purposes of preaching, and what kind of orientation he should be encouraged to have before setting out, has to be put in place.

Whether we like it or not, Pakistan gets a bad reputation when it is announced in the UK that there are more Pakistanis in prison there than Indians who form a larger community.

This being the case why should a hindu/sikh Indian get painted with the same brush as "Asian" along with Pakistanis who commit most of the crimes that "Asians" commit?

The irony is that when the prejudice genie is let out of the bottle it does not discriminate and the Hindus and Jews who are so happy to put the boot in to the Muslims now will also feel its effects.

Not muslims. Not even Indian muslims who apparently do quite well for the most part.

In the UK, it is specifically Pakistanis who the other "south Asians" try not to get associated with.

And I am sure, without even reading your article, bet that the offenders were of Pakistani descent. There is no unfair stereotyping here. It has become a truism.

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Im not sure why they need to put a label on the race of the pair. Two people hardly constitutes an ethnic group.

Every other week there is a (white) paedeophile ring exposed in the UK.

Very true. This has been the case for many past decades.

However, if the ethnicity of the accused was put across as Asians, all Asians who wanted to distance themselves from the accused were justified in this. They should, however, not have labeled any sub group of Asians as one who would do such things and not all Asians. This is a racist and myopic stance.

The correct and legitimate thing to do is condemn the alleged crime [alleged; until proven beyond doubt in a competent court] from various community platforms, without vilifying anybody else.

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Is it not a fact that Pakistani community in the UK occupies the bottom rung in the society, in terms of unemployment, illiteracy, crimes and proportion in jails etc ?

That's because a lot of the early migrants were from rural communities in Pakistan, e.g. the Mirpuris came because of the problems caused by the Mangla Dam:

Over 280 villages and the towns of Mirpur and Dadyal were submerged and over 110,000 people were displaced from the area as a result of the dam being built. Some of those affected by the dam were given work permits for Britain by the Government of Pakistan, and as a result, in many cities in the UK over 80% of the 'Pakistani' community actually originated from the Mirpur area of Azad Jamuu Kashmir.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mangla_Dam

This is in contrast to Hindu immigrants, many of whom were middle class businesspeople, e.g. those from East Africa.

If Britain had imported people from Indian slums you would have seen the same about them.

As I said in my first post, people like you can carry on belittling the Pakis, thinking that in some way you are superior, but when the prejudice genie is out of the bottle remember this.

Those underachieving Pakis, in the UK, are relatively poor and don't have too much to lose.

On the other hand when right-wing Britons look for scapegoats for their own underachievement, the Hindu run businesses are going to be a pretty juicy target.

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As I said in my first post, people like you can carry on belittling the Pakis, thinking that in some way you are superior,

STOP putting words into my mouth. Now you are openly accusing me of having superiority over Pakistanis. Classic siege mentality. Blame others of prejudice and bigotry to avoid introspection.

but when the prejudice genie is out of the bottle remember this.

Those underachieving Pakis, in the UK, are relatively poor and don't have too much to lose.

On the other hand when right-wing Britons look for scapegoats for their own underachievement, the Hindu run businesses are going to be a pretty juicy target.

I notice that you have posted on this theme twice already in this thread itself. It's almost as if you WANT it to happen.

"Hum doobega to tum ko bi le ke doobega", eh ?

That's because a lot of the early migrants were from rural communities in Pakistan

NONE of the 7/7 bombers were poor or uneducated.

Also, your theory is false because of the comparison with afro-caribbeans who are basically descendants of SLAVES and even THEY are doing better than the Pakistani community in UK.

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^

How come the illiteracy and other undesirable traits are being handed down from generation to generation like cherished family heirlooms?

For the same reason why parts of London, Glasgow, Liverpool etc. are characterised by low levels of economic and educational achievement, decade after decade.

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STOP putting words into my mouth. Now you are openly accusing me of having superiority over Pakistanis

You originally said:

Is it not a fact that Pakistani community in the UK occupies the bottom rung in the society, in terms of unemployment, illiteracy, crimes and proportion in jails etc ?

Seemed like a feeling of superiority to me. Given you took no account of their background.

NONE of the 7/7 bombers were poor or uneducated.

So? This thread has nothing to do with terrorism.

Also, your theory is false because of the comparison with afro-caribbeans who are basically descendants of SLAVES and even THEY are doing better than the Pakistani community in UK.

Not according to this research:

Chinese and Indian pupils are most successful in avoiding low achievement. Afro-Caribbean pupils are the least successful on average, though their results have been improving

http://www.jrf.org.uk/knowledge/findings/s...policy/2095.asp

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You originally said:

Is it not a fact that Pakistani community in the UK occupies the bottom rung in the society, in terms of unemployment, illiteracy, crimes and proportion in jails etc ?

Seemed like a feeling of superiority to me. Given you took no account of their background.

What superiority ? You confound me. Why would I feel superior over some community in a country that I have not even visited ?

Please stop throwing accusations around and stick to facts. Keeping emotion laden words aside helps in debates.

So? This thread has nothing to do with terrorism.

Well part of the problem is lack of "assimilation" which is related to some of those in that community hating UK so much that they are willing to blow themselves up just so that they can kill a few non-combatants.

Not according to this research:

Chinese and Indian pupils are most successful in avoiding low achievement. Afro-Caribbean pupils are the least successful on average, though their results have been improving

well, at least it is improving.... :blush:

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For the same reason why parts of London, Glasgow, Liverpool etc. are characterised by low levels of economic and educational achievement, decade after decade.

Areas are one thing; people quite another. Can you prove, if it is the same FAMILIES living in those areas, and their successive generations who are underperforming generation after generation?

When you do that, we will attempt to examine this "same reason" which you mention so vaguely.

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Can you prove, if it is the same FAMILIES living in those areas, and their successive generations who are underperforming generation after generation?

When you do that, we will attempt to examine this "same reason" which you mention so vaguely.

The 'Sons and Daughters Scheme' of the Liberal Democrats gave special preference to the children of parents who had lived in the borough a certain time and was widely criticised as being indirectly discriminatory against Bengali families. This was, in effect, resurrecting old practices which had been thrown out as discriminatory. (The authors of The New East End imply that white resentment arose, understandably, out of the way in which housing priorities changed. According to them, housing allocation under the new welfare state was first made as a kind of recompense for what people had given to their community. Second, tenancies were also seen as something that could be passed on to one's children (ie like the Sons and Daughters Scheme).

http://www.irr.org.uk/2006/february/ha000021.html

Now why would the indigenous white population of Tower Hamlets want a 'sons and daughters' housing policy if they did not have family ties to a deprived part of London going back many years?

Not only were these white residents in an 'under-performing' part of London, they were proud of it and wanted it to continue.

When you do that, we will attempt to examine this "same reason" which you mention so vaguely.

That's mighty generous of you.

At least there's one person around here who thinks you know something.

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The scale of the street grooming crisis in the UK almost defies belief. Hundreds of girls and young women were raped in the city of Rotherham, and hundreds by similar exploitation rings in Rochdale, Peterborough, Newcastle, Oxford, and Bristol. Now, up to a thousand girls are thought to have been drugged, raped, and beaten in Telford between the 1980s and the 2010s.

To some extent, this fact has been influenced by the disproportionate amount of British Pakistanis and Bangladeshis who make their living in the night-time economy, driving taxi cabs and working in restaurants, which gave the perpetrators access to girls, and hours away from home. This is not the sole factor, though, as other nations with significant night-time economies do not have comparable street grooming crises.

Some have pointed the finger at Islam. I support the criticism of Islamic texts where appropriate but think this factor can be over-egged. Quite apart from being abusively adulterous, these criminals drank, did drugs, and made their victims have abortions. These were not, in other words, devout Muslim men. Yet Taj Hargey of the Oxford Islamic Congregation has observed that “the view of some Islamic preachers towards white women” and “an attitude where women are seen as nothing more than personal property” might have been contributing factors in the stew of thought processes that characterised these men, along with provincial machismo, clannish contempt, and degenerate sexual appetites.

 

https://quillette.com/2018/03/14/britains-grooming-gang-crisis/

https://www.theguardian.com/society/2018/feb/23/northumbria-police-operation-sanctuary-newcastle-grooming-gangs-case-review

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31 minutes ago, starlight said:

What's does it even mean? When I read the title I imagined burly unkempt men sitting in a row being given free hair cuts and beard trims. 

:blush::confused:

Nah apparently it means to sexually exploit people. It's mainly perpetrated by men who target young girls.

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1 hour ago, ali_fatheroforphans said:

Salam,

I don't live in the UK, so I don't know much about this issue of 'grooming gangs'. Why is this happening in England so frequently? Also is it true that majority of it is perpetrated by Pakistani men?

This may be an explanation, usually money trumps most other factors:

 

 

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On 8/12/2007 at 3:40 PM, Haji 2003 said:

http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/news/uk/c...icle2237940.ece

This story in the Sunday Times reports:

A hidden world in which Asian men “groom” young white girls for sex has been exposed with the jailing yesterday of two men for child-abuse offences.

What's very interesting is the reaction of the readers:

1. Hindus saying we don't want to be lumped with Muslims, so don't refer to these people as Asian.

2. Hindus saying that this is all because of deviant Muslim culture and this sort of thing is not practised by us

3. White Britons saying that Muslims are raping girls around the country and its due to their repressive religion.

4. White Britons saying that this sort of story is not often reported.

5. Now and again someone says that just because a few people have been convicted does not mean you can label the entire community the same way.

Reminds me of the early years of the Nazi party in Germany, slow but relentless demonisation of a community.

This is heading in one direction and Muslims should be aware of it.

The irony is that when the prejudice genie is let out of the bottle it does not discriminate and the Hindus and Jews who are so happy to put the boot in to the Muslims now will also feel its effects.

That's true and evident all across India. 

You see the media, you see the govt, opposition corrupt and ruling party has strong 'nationalist' sentiments. 

All is done by RSS, BJP, hindu Mahasabha, VHP etc. They are responsible for promoting hate sentiments against muslims. In India situation is terrible for muslims, christians and some other minorities as well. Though, I won't exaggerate. Still we are living, their are flaws within muslims too and their is not much difference between the situation of India and Pakistan with regards to muslims (specially shias).

What worries me the most is Kashmir. 

May Allah help the people of Kashmir. 

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I remember there was a video some years ago filmed in london that was named something like "Muslim pedofile caught and confronted" and then when i actually watched the video the pedofile was of south asian descend but he had a hindu name. So it was basically propaganda taking someone who isnt muslim but using it to ruin muslim's reputation.

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We have had this debate before brother @Haji 2003

Yes, the far right exploits the issue to make it looks like it is exclusively a British Pakistani Muslim problem. This is true.

However, while anyone can see that the problem isn't exclusive to one community, I do think that there is definitely a problem out there. 

It isn't a case of one or two random muslims doing this, sadly there really have been numerous cases where entire gangs of muslim youth have done such things. 

We have tried to explain it away by saying 'they aren't religious'. I agree that anyone who truly fears Allah (سُبْحَانَهُ وَ تَعَالَى) would not participate in such activities. However, from the outward perspective we aren't talking about non practicing muslims, rather these are bearded mosque-going youth. 

There is definitely a double standard out there. If these girls were the sisters of the perpetrators, their parents and other community members wouldn't be as passive as they are on the subject. There would be riots in the streets of Rotherham and Rochdale. 

Until this isn't taken seriously by British Muslims (who are rather quick to play the victim card, even though ironically the UK is probably the country that gives more rights to Muslims than any other country, including Saudi Arabia and Iran), the problem will probably not be solved (nor will other law and order related issues among Muslims in the UK).

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1 minute ago, Mahdavist said:

We have had this debate before brother

Of course, that's why I added this to the existing thread and as a point of information posted the Home Office report on the matter.

If anyone were to look at the thread it's important they should be aware of an authoritative document about it - which does not support the simplistic Islamophobic narrative that we are familiar with.

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1 hour ago, Haji 2003 said:

Of course, that's why I added this to the existing thread and as a point of information posted the Home Office report on the matter.

If anyone were to look at the thread it's important they should be aware of an authoritative document about it - which does not support the simplistic Islamophobic narrative that we are familiar with.

Essentially you're saying 'its not only Muslims doing this.' 

Correct. But this doesn't address the real issue (from a Muslim perspective at least) which is that there has been a defensive, hypocritical and complacent attitude towards this problem by British Muslims in general. 

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3 minutes ago, Mahdavist said:

Essentially you're saying 'its not only Muslims doing this.

Essentially you're the Home Office is saying 'its not only Muslims doing this.

Fixed it for you.

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Just now, Haji 2003 said:

Essentially you're the Home Office is saying 'its not only Muslims doing this.

Fixed it for you.

Correct, muslim youth are not the only ones drugging girls and gang raping them. 

One has to ask how low our standards have fallen when this is the kind of conclusion we satisfy ourselves with. 

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A trial in the U.S. has just ended where the accused was British. People are commenting about how favourably a convicted sex offender is being treated by the British press. A comparison has been made with the Muslim grooming gangs.

 

 

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On 2/22/2021 at 4:00 PM, Mahdavist said:

We have had this debate before brother @Haji 2003

Yes, the far right exploits the issue to make it looks like it is exclusively a British Pakistani Muslim problem. This is true.

However, while anyone can see that the problem isn't exclusive to one community, I do think that there is definitely a problem out there. 

It isn't a case of one or two random muslims doing this, sadly there really have been numerous cases where entire gangs of muslim youth have done such things. 

We have tried to explain it away by saying 'they aren't religious'. I agree that anyone who truly fears Allah (سُبْحَانَهُ وَ تَعَالَى) would not participate in such activities. However, from the outward perspective we aren't talking about non practicing muslims, rather these are bearded mosque-going youth

There is definitely a double standard out there. If these girls were the sisters of the perpetrators, their parents and other community members wouldn't be as passive as they are on the subject. There would be riots in the streets of Rotherham and Rochdale. 

Until this isn't taken seriously by British Muslims (who are rather quick to play the victim card, even though ironically the UK is probably the country that gives more rights to Muslims than any other country, including Saudi Arabia and Iran), the problem will probably not be solved (nor will other law and order related issues among Muslims in the UK).

@Mahdavist @Haydar Husayn @Marbles @Ali_Hussain

As a Westerner facing this issue, I am interested in understanding its roots more fully. Among some of these Sunni Muslims, is there a mentality that they are entitled to take their share of “wh*res” from among the “infidels,” so to speak? I have also noticed that some wealthy Zionist Jews in the West and/or Israel (i.e., Soros) are heavily involved in financing pro-immigration and pro-Sunni groups such as various fronts of the Muslim Brotherhood (MB). These Jews, who have played a significant role in promoting Wahhabi–Salafi ideology among Sunnis via the Saudis et al., even call mass Sunni migration to the West a good thing and chortle at the prospect of revenge for Christendom’s past attitudes toward Judaism. The Sunni extremists-cum-“migrants” complain about Western “racism” despite being treated much more leniently by pro-Zionist Western governments than by many regimes in the MENA. By contrast, Hezbollah’s leadership has called Takfiri extremism a greater threat to Islam than secularism. My point is, Are there traditions within Sunni Islam that entitle Sunnis, or at least Semites, to unlimited numbers of female slaves from among non-Semitic serfs or enslaved peoples, like the Jewish traditions that entitle the Messiah to thousands of slave-girls whom he shares with his devotees? If so, would these account for the mentality of some of these “migrants” in the West?

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2 hours ago, Northwest said:

@Mahdavist @Haydar Husayn @Marbles @Ali_Hussain

As a Westerner facing this issue, I am interested in understanding its roots more fully. Among some of these Sunni Muslims, is there a mentality that they are entitled to take their share of “wh*res” from among the “infidels,” so to speak? I have also noticed that some wealthy Zionist Jews in the West and/or Israel (i.e., Soros) are heavily involved in financing pro-immigration and pro-Sunni groups such as various fronts of the Muslim Brotherhood (MB). These Jews, who have played a significant role in promoting Wahhabi–Salafi ideology among Sunnis via the Saudis et al., even call mass Sunni migration to the West a good thing and chortle at the prospect of revenge for Christendom’s past attitudes toward Judaism. The Sunni extremists-cum-“migrants” complain about Western “racism” despite being treated much more leniently by pro-Zionist Western governments than by many regimes in the MENA. By contrast, Hezbollah’s leadership has called Takfiri extremism a greater threat to Islam than secularism. My point is, Are there traditions within Sunni Islam that entitle Sunnis, or at least Semites, to unlimited numbers of female slaves from among non-Semitic serfs or enslaved peoples, like the Jewish traditions that entitle the Messiah to thousands of slave-girls whom he shares with his devotees? If so, would these account for the mentality of some of these “migrants” in the West?

so the pro zionist are supporting sunnis and salafis, do they equally see shia islam as a threat?

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13 hours ago, Lion of Shia said:

so the pro zionist are supporting sunnis and salafis, do they equally see shia islam as a threat?

@Lion of Shia

My understanding is that “Jewish” Zionist elites in the financial and other leading sectors are attempting to implement their so-called “New World Order” (one-world regime) via the “Great Reset” and the “Great Replacement.” This multi-pronged strategy involves contrived crises such as foreign intervention (wars), economic collapse, demographic displacement, demoralisation, so-called “viral infection,” depopulation, man-made disaster (via HAARP, earthquake-weaponry, etc.), and so on. Many of the “Jewish” Zionist elites are cabalists who attempt to “force God’s hand” by causing absolute demoralisation worldwide; inverting moral values, semantic meanings, and entire societies; and otherwise “turning things inside out/upside down,” reasoning that since the End Times mark the nadir of the so-called “Kali Yuga” (age of degeneration/darkness) it is incumbent upon the “chosen few” to bring about the End via “redemption through sin,” thereby accelerating the collapse and the arrival of the messianic Age to Come.

The elites help bring about this outcome by bribing or forcing “nonwhite” and Sunni masses, especially criminal and/or terrorist elements, to leave their lands and emigrate to the West. The said elites also expedite the process by attacking, sanctioning, invading, and otherwise destabilising foreign countries. At the same time, the elites finance attacks on the traditions, customs, and cultures of indigenous populations, whether in the East or the West. In the West these attacks consist of support for sexual degeneracy; anti-white/anti-Christian, “woke” ID politics (i.e., ANTIFA, BLM, and so on); pro-“migrant,” open-borders grandstanding; SARS-CoV-2-derived hysteria; misandry; attacks on the family; and so on. In the East the attacks consist of support for religious extremism/sectarianism, terrorism, drug trafficking, organ harvesting, economic warfare, invasion, “strategy of tension,” and so on. You are correct in that the “Jewish” Zionists support anti-Shia and anti-Christian forces such as Sunni extremists (Wahhabi–Salafi).

Just look at the following link. One can easily see that these Zionists are happy about the displacement of white Christians and Shias by Sunni terrorists.

Someone may blame me for being “racist.” No, I am not racist; the Zionists are, and I am merely restating their perspective on current and future events.

There are rumours that these Zionists’ ultimate endgame is a microchipped world (linked to 5G?) with a population of at most five hundred million people.

Edited by Northwest
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On 1/24/2022 at 10:10 AM, Northwest said:

Someone may blame me for being “racist.” No, I am not racist; the Zionists are, and I am merely restating their perspective on current and future events.

The first part of your post comes across as being anti-semitic and there are places elsewhere that contain assertions and conspiracies.

The only place in your post where you give any evidence is the link to ynet news and even there, the content of the link barely supports what you have to say.

Quote

 

Following the election of a hijab-wearing Muslim woman as the mayor of the Bosnian city of Visoko for the first time in continent's history, the student asked the rabbi on the Kipa website: "How do we fight the Islamization of Europe and return it to the hands of Christians and moderates?" 

Efrati wrote in response that the Islamization of Europe was better than a Christian Europe for ethical and theological reasons – as a punishment against Christians for persecuting the Jews and the fact that Christianity, as opposed to Islam, is considered "idolatry" from a halachic point of view.

 

https://www.ynetnews.com/articles/0,7340,L-4299673,00.html

 

The above link does NOT support the idea that Jews/Zionists are 'behind' the Islamisation of Europe. What it does is to give one seemingly junior rabbi's view that in terms of promoting modesty and God consciousness an Islamised Europe is better than a Christian Europe. 

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On 1/24/2022 at 1:40 PM, Northwest said:

Someone may blame me for being “racist.” No, I am not racist; the Zionists are, and I am merely restating their perspective on current and future events.

There are rumours that these Zionists’ ultimate endgame is a microchipped world (linked to 5G?) with a population of at most five hundred million people.

 

Hi certainly  they have a well planned  project for near future but they use conspiracy theories  as ruse of war likewise distraction of mind of people by conspiracy theories  likewise  5G & microchips which everyone  swallows  like a piece  of cake but even until now we don't  have a strong & real clue about their dirty plans .

45 minutes ago, Haji 2003 said:

The above link does NOT support the idea that Jews/Zionists are 'behind' the Islamisation of Europe. What it does is to give one seemingly junior rabbi's view that in terms of promoting modesty and God consciousness an Islamised Europe is better than a Christian Europe. 

Salam their Islamisation is based just focusing  on rituals & promoting self religion for modesty which has no interaction with real world so therefore their Islam a copycat  of Ummayids  & Abbasids which any corrupt & tyrant ruler can rule over people while people in mosques & their homes are neutral about their tyranny  & corruption  & they are praying  for going to paradise.

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