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In the Name of God بسم الله

Racism

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  • Advanced Member

(salam)

I was born and raised in Canada. That makes me Canadian, not only by birth but because my family has resided in Canada for hundreds of years.

But because I embraced Islam, and choose to wear a scarf, I lose my Canadian-ness. I have experienced more racial remarks and comments towards me then I could even think of before I was Muslim.

1. "Go back to your country"

2. "Halloween is over"

3. "your people are taking over our country"

4. "it doesn't smell right around here"

5. (my husband is black and I am half white/black..so my complexion is light brown. Everyone thinks im Arab sooo...you can imagine the stares, glares and comments we get when we go out.

I am about to say something that may offend some.....19 out of 20 of these comments are made by white people. Now please don't get me wrong, my mother, brother, aunts, uncles etc are all white, so I am not racist. but I am beginning to feel malice for these so called "Canadian" people, and I am intimidated by them. (The real Canadians are actually Native Indians) If I am around them I am uncomfortable, and I try to avoid especially "white" areas at all costs. Places I used to enjoy are now off limits. I have this fear that everywhere I go they are looking at me and talking about me...and sometimes they are.

Anyway, I continue to be strong and fight this little jihad....I continue to wear my hijab, and sometimes even shalwar kameez (which really throws them off).

Please share..What are your experiences and how do you cope?

Wasalam

Zahra

Edited by Zahra_Islam
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I noticed the same. Hijab cancels out "whiteness". :D

But around here, people are mostly pretty nice. They just don't seem me as white anymore.

(salam)

Hijab does not cancel out whiteness, it just means that white people have the chance to experience a small amount of what POC go through all through their lives.

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  • Advanced Member

Salaam,

The Quran says "Repel evil with that which is better".

Throughout the Prophets lifetime, there was a woman that threw garbage at him every day. Every day he politely spoke with her and went on his way. One day she didnt throw garbage at him and he went to find out why she had stopped. When she spoke to him, he was very nice and polite with her - and she converted to Islam.

These people, despite living in 2007, are living in an age of ignorance.

I pray for you to be strong and not let these ignorant people bother you, in fact, use them to inspire yourself to be like our Holy Prophet (SAW).

I wish you good luck.

-

FG

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Allow me to play devil's advocate.

While I sympathize with your mistreatment, this is not racism.

Muslims are not a race, if people hate you based on your religious preference it is not much different than hating someone for their political views.

If I pranced around wearing a Republican party hat, I'm likely to be hit by a tomato. What your scarf represents for many people is potentially a wide range of views that collide with theirs.

I was born and raised in Canada. That makes me Canadian, not only by birth but because my family has resided in Canada for hundreds of years.

But because I embraced Islam, and choose to wear a scarf, I lose my Canadian-ness. I have experienced more racial remarks and comments towards me then I could even think of before I was Muslim.

1. "Go back to your country"

2. "Halloween is over"

3. "your people are taking over our country"

4. "it doesn't smell right around here"

5. (my husband is black and I am half white/black..so my complexion is light brown. Everyone thinks im Arab sooo...you can imagine the stares, glares and comments we get when we go out.

Now, these are very mean things.

But why do people say these things? Perhaps they are more than a little fearful of what your presence brings. Maybe you could dispel some fears, instead of trying to condemn them for a crime that people round the world are guilty of.

For example, how would my hijab-less female relatives be treated in Iran, or Saudi Arabia?

I could go as far to say some offhanded comments by brutes is better than this : http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Human_rights_...epublic_of_Iran

I am about to say something that may offend some.....19 out of 20 of these comments are made by white people. Now please don't get me wrong, my mother, brother, aunts, uncles etc are all white, so I am not racist. but I am beginning to feel malice for these so called "Canadian" people, and I am intimidated by them. (The real Canadians are actually Native Indians) If I am around them I am uncomfortable, and I try to avoid especially "white" areas at all costs. Places I used to enjoy are now off limits. I have this fear that everywhere I go they are looking at me and talking about me...and sometimes they are.

You know, its a funny coincidence that 19 out of 20 people you will run into in Canada are white, so then it would then be fair to say that 19 out of 20 bad things are said by white people in Canada. Math is a wonderful thing.

As far as the Natives go, they are immigrants just the same, and as much as they would like to believe that things would be "so much better" if white people didn't arrive, they really have no evidence to prove the point.

And, as far as Natives go, it is just as likely that they hate Islam as much as they hate the nutjob Christians that threw them into residential schools.

Anyway, I continue to be strong and fight this little jihad....I continue to wear my hijab, and sometimes even shalwar kameez (which really throws them off).

Please share..What are your experiences and how do you cope?

Again, I sympathize with your mistreatment, but it will likely continue as long as some nutters on this forum talk about burning Israel to the ground, or spreading Islam around the world.

Heck, many people here adore converts, and speak highly of the latest rapper or other nobody that converted to Islam. They also contain numbers of Islam's spread in their signatures.

So, from the outside, Islam is on one hand a bunch of nutjobs eager to kill us (Al-Qaeda, etc) and on the other a bunch of people eager to convert us (many on this forum).

Then, there is always the confusion that arises after honour killings, even though it seems to be happening more in the Sikh community. This could be seen by the more narrow minded as something that is allowed in Islam.

As far as the treatment of women goes, you should be lucky that you aren't actually in a muslim nation.

So you can keep complaining about how the whiteys mistreat you, and the most self-hating bleeding heart white people will agree with you. The reality is, however, you don't really have a better place to be when it comes to religious freedom.

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Guest badamjan

kinda expected but with the phrase 'self-hating bleeding heart white' you've taken shiachat to new heights. she's canadian and thats all it matters;the comparison is clear attempt to diminish the significance of her treatment. as a citizen, it is her right to complain against discrimination and what happens somewhere else is of no concern to her. and please, stop pretending to be sympathetic;your post reveals that if a group of people were mistreating zahra, you would join the crowd or remain silent.

Edited by badamjan
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  • Advanced Member
Allow me to play devil's advocate.

Okay.

While I sympathize with your mistreatment, this is not racism.

Muslims are not a race, if people hate you based on your religious preference it is not much different than hating someone for their political views.

I can agree to this for the time being.

If I pranced around wearing a Republican party hat, I'm likely to be hit by a tomato. What your scarf represents for many people is potentially a wide range of views that collide with theirs.

This is where we begin to disagree. To be a Republican, you are not required to wear a “Republican party hat.” To be a Muslim, women must wear hijab (according to 99% of scholars on both the sunni and shi’a side of things- forget Irshad Manji for a little). So these are two very different comparisons. And let’s be honest here- being a republican is very different than being a Muslim. When you are a Republican, in America, you have about at least 30-40% support (and I am seriously underestimating) of people who are like-minded. Muslims? Heh.

Now, these are very mean things.

But why do people say these things? Perhaps they are more than a little fearful of what your presence brings. Maybe you could dispel some fears, instead of trying to condemn them for a crime that people round the world are guilty of.

It goes both ways, my friend. When I get frustrated with people, I’m called anti-American. When I sympathize, I’m an apologist. It seems that people are not always clear on what they want Muslims to do.

For example, how would my hijab-less female relatives be treated in Iran, or Saudi Arabia?

Tell me, what power do any of us have to change the laws in Iran? How is this a comparison at all? You are completely comparing apples and oranges here. Furthermore, Iran is a very different country, based on completely different principles, than Canada or America.

I could go as far to say some offhanded comments by brutes is better than this : http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Human_rights_...epublic_of_Iran

Blah blah, rhetoric rhetoric.

You know, its a funny coincidence that 19 out of 20 people you will run into in Canada are white, so then it would then be fair to say that 19 out of 20 bad things are said by white people in Canada. Math is a wonderful thing.

As far as the Natives go, they are immigrants just the same, and as much as they would like to believe that things would be "so much better" if white people didn't arrive, they really have no evidence to prove the point.

And, as far as Natives go, it is just as likely that they hate Islam as much as they hate the nutjob Christians that threw them into residential schools.

Heh. Are you the representative of the Natives?

Again, I sympathize with your mistreatment, but it will likely continue as long as some nutters on this forum talk about burning Israel to the ground, or spreading Islam around the world.

Heck, many people here adore converts, and speak highly of the latest rapper or other nobody that converted to Islam. They also contain numbers of Islam's spread in their signatures.

You are quite arrogant. I despise rapping, and I still don’t regard humans as “nobody”

So, from the outside, Islam is on one hand a bunch of nutjobs eager to kill us (Al-Qaeda, etc) and on the other a bunch of people eager to convert us (many on this forum).

Then, there is always the confusion that arises after honour killings, even though it seems to be happening more in the Sikh community. This could be seen by the more narrow minded as something that is allowed in Islam.

As far as the treatment of women goes, you should be lucky that you aren't actually in a muslim nation.

Have you lived in a Muslim nation? Have you spoken to women from Muslim nations who are not “self hating” (your term, not mine)? On what authority do you say this?

So you can keep complaining about how the whiteys mistreat you, and the most self-hating bleeding heart white people will agree with you. The reality is, however, you don't really have a better place to be when it comes to religious freedom.

You are quite right- I do enjoy my religious freedoms here. Though, I do wonder how this will change in the not-so-distant future.

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While I sympathize with your mistreatment, this is not racism.

Muslims are not a race, if people hate you based on your religious preference it is not much different than hating someone for their political views.

The sister said:

5. (my husband is black and I am half white/black..so my complexion is light brown. Everyone thinks im Arab sooo...you can imagine the stares, glares and comments we get when we go out.

I would contend that this treatment - the intention behind it - is largely racist in nature (even though I don't personally believe in the current popular concept of race, I'll ride with it for the sake of discussion). While muslim is not a race, many of the ignoramuses we (as head-scarf-wearing women) encounter on the mean streets see us as a race. Many of them don't know any better. They assume, because of a headscarf, that we are members of a particular race or ethnicity (i.e. Arab, like the sister clarified in her post, Desi, Irani, and Slavic (eastern european) are the main races we are commonly mistaken) ... even if it is a misconception, in the eyes of many, I would say they do see a race, mistakenly, and make such racist remarks because of this ignorance.

If someone mistakes me for Arabiyya simply because I wear a headscarf and he/she mistakenly believes that indicates I am a certain race, and then proceeds to make slurs about that race (or their stereotypes of that race), then I would have to say that is racism, in intent. At the very least, it is ethnocentric/supremacist.

Edited by Muslimah_IBe
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Salams Sis,

what part of Canada do you live in? I've never had any problems being "darker" or middle eastern coloured in all my 15 years I've been in Canada, this is what makes me proud of being a Canadian. I do notice a little change in attitude when I travel outside of large cities with a big immegrant population such as Toronto, Montreal and Ottawa. It's not really racism, more like ignorance because these people have not yet accepted the salad bowl that is Canada.

Ever thought of moving to such a place (if you're not already) if its affecting you that much?

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But why do people say these things? Perhaps they are more than a little fearful of what your presence brings. Maybe you could dispel some fears, instead of trying to condemn them for a crime that people round the world are guilty of.

For example, how would my hijab-less female relatives be treated in Iran, or Saudi Arabia?

I could go as far to say some offhanded comments by brutes is better than this : http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Human_rights_...epublic_of_Iran

You know, its a funny coincidence that 19 out of 20 people you will run into in Canada are white, so then it would then be fair to say that 19 out of 20 bad things are said by white people in Canada. Math is a wonderful thing.

As far as the Natives go, they are immigrants just the same, and as much as they would like to believe that things would be "so much better" if white people didn't arrive, they really have no evidence to prove the point.

And, as far as Natives go, it is just as likely that they hate Islam as much as they hate the nutjob Christians that threw them into residential schools.

Again, I sympathize with your mistreatment, but it will likely continue as long as some nutters on this forum talk about burning Israel to the ground, or spreading Islam around the world.

Come on Freedom. This is like a young frustrated man in Zimbabwe saying "If you white christian farmers want us to stop assaulting you, then perhaps you should tell white Caucasian dirty cops in New York City to stop selling drugs to black youths in Bed-Stuy."

Does that make sense? No. It's reaching, is what it is; and it doesn't excuse anything ... so are these excuses attempting to justify the racist remarks this sister is experiencing. :dry:

Edited by Muslimah_IBe
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kinda expected but with the phrase 'self-hating bleeding heart white' you've taken shiachat to new heights. she's canadian and thats all it matters;the comparison is clear attempt to diminish the significance of her treatment. as a citizen, it is her right to complain against discrimination and what happens somewhere else is of no concern to her. and please, stop pretending to be sympathetic;your post reveals that if a group of people were mistreating zahra, you would join the crowd or remain silent.

It is unfortunate this happens. I only wish for some perspective and correctness.

Maybe I'm sick of white people labelled as the only group that is racist or hateful. If you talk about white people hating or "oppressing" (whatever the hell that is supposed to mean) then you have a wide audience.

But if you talk about ill-will between different groups in India, or ill-will between Chinese and Japanese, you may find something exponentially more disturbing yet nobody will listen.

Haven't the Christians been ordered to leave Iraq?

How do i put members on my ignore list? I think it's about time to put one on there.

If you think clearing up some language is worse and more offensive than trying to convince the world that Americans and Jews conspired to kill their own on 9/11, then by all means block me.

This is where we begin to disagree. To be a Republican, you are not required to wear a “Republican party hat.” To be a Muslim, women must wear hijab (according to 99% of scholars on both the sunni and shi’a side of things- forget Irshad Manji for a little). So these are two very different comparisons. And let’s be honest here- being a republican is very different than being a Muslim. When you are a Republican, in America, you have about at least 30-40% support (and I am seriously underestimating) of people who are like-minded. Muslims? Heh.

Republicans may disagree on a lot of things. The Iraq War, for instance.

I don't see very much disagreement between muslims on this forum on issues of Israel, homosexuality, etc.

Islam contains everything from economic policy to sexual freedoms. For this, it is more politically bent than most political parties.

Tell me, what power do any of us have to change the laws in Iran? How is this a comparison at all? You are completely comparing apples and oranges here. Furthermore, Iran is a very different country, based on completely different principles, than Canada or America.

Yes, but I merely wished to illustrate what my treatment would be if I went to a non-white country.

For as much complaining people do about white people, they are pretty damn understanding in comparison.

So, here is a discussion about Canada, talking of racism.

I just have flashbacks to the many Iran supporters on this forum, that seem to believe that it is heaven on earth, while the west is morally corrupt and full of evil people. They could point to this thread and say "Yes, we muslims are mistreated in Canada, damn secular oppressors!" even though that is complete BS.

Heh. Are you the representative of the Natives?

No, but:

1) I've met quite a few

2) I don't generalize and accept they are better than other race.

She implied that white people are merely immigrants that crashed the native's show, which is basically true, but she hoped this would further illustrate how white people beat up everybody.

Natives aren't any more understanding or tolerant than anybody else. It is true that what happened to them was bad, but that doesn't mean they will start loving you just because your skin color is somewhat similar.

Have you lived in a Muslim nation?

No.

Have you spoken to women from Muslim nations who are not “self hating” (your term, not mine)?

Yes.

On what authority do you say this?

With the same authority she has to make these allegations.

You are quite right- I do enjoy my religious freedoms here. Though, I do wonder how this will change in the not-so-distant future.

This is a huge "what if". "What if Al-Qaeda blows up Parliament?" "What if it turns out the perpetrators were from Toronto?"

"What if I was a Dane in Saudi Arabia, when people at home published some cartoons?"

FFR is suffering from a terminal case of self-hate. He can't be cured through reason alone. He needs extensive therapy. FFR you may want to pick up a lil Frantz Fanon. He could help you, really.

If I hated myself, I would have already apologized for a crime I did not commit.

The sister said:

I would contend that this treatment - the intention behind it - is largely racist in nature (even though I don't personally believe in the current popular concept of race, I'll ride with it for the sake of discussion). While muslim is not a race, many of the ignoramuses we (as head-scarf-wearing women) encounter on the mean streets see us as a race. Many of them don't know any better. They assume, because of a headscarf, that we are members of a particular race or ethnicity (i.e. Arab, like the sister clarified in her post, Desi, Irani, and Slavic (eastern european) are the main races we are commonly mistaken) ... even if it is a misconception, in the eyes of many, I would say they do see a race, mistakenly, and make such racist remarks because of this ignorance.

If someone mistakes me for Arabiyya simply because I wear a headscarf and he/she mistakenly believes that indicates I am a certain race, and then proceeds to make slurs about that race (or their stereotypes of that race), then I would have to say that is racism, in intent. At the very least, it is ethnocentric/supremacist.

If this was about her skin color, she would have had this treatment all her life. But her post seems to be talking about after she started wearing the scarf.

The scarf is a big factor. Like I said, it's a political banner.

Come on Freedom. This is like a young frustrated man in Zimbabwe saying "If you white christian farmers want us to stop assaulting you, then perhaps you should tell white Caucasian dirty cops in New York City to stop selling drugs to black youths in Bed-Stuy."

Does that make sense? No. It's reaching, is what it is; and it doesn't excuse anything ... so are these excuses attempting to justify the racist remarks this sister is experiencing. :dry:

Was she assaulted? No. Was she raped? No. Was she forced to remove the scarf? No.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Zahra_Kazemi would the RCMP do this?

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If this was about her skin color, she would have had this treatment all her life. But her post seems to be talking about after she started wearing the scarf.

The scarf is a big factor. Like I said, it's a political banner.

No one said this was solely about skin color. But as she mentioned, her skin color coupled with her headscarf have been misconstrued by onlookers to somehow indicate her race/ethnicity. If they knew she was a biracial Canadian, I doubt they would be telling her to "go home". They made an assumption about her ethnicity/race (i.e. Arabiyya, as she mentioned) because of her headscarf, and proceeded to make remarks based on that. That's sounds strangely racist to me.

Was she assaulted? No. Was she raped? No. Was she forced to remove the scarf? No.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Zahra_Kazemi would the RCMP do this?

Ummm, Ok, thanks for the link. Now, could you plainly just say what you are trying to imply? What's the point here? Would things change if she had been assaulted? 'Cause that has happened to some muslim women donning a headscarf. too. How does that change things? And, how does this excuse the excuses you have made above?

Edited by Muslimah_IBe
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  • Advanced Member

(salam)

But why do people say these things? Perhaps they are more than a little fearful of what your presence brings. Maybe you could dispel some fears, instead of trying to condemn them for a crime that people round the world are guilty of.

How do I dispel some fears?? By not wearing hijab? Talking to them? What do you suggest?

You know, its a funny coincidence that 19 out of 20 people you will run into in Canada are white, so then it would then be fair to say that 19 out of 20 bad things are said by white people in Canada. Math is a wonderful thing.

Do you live in Canada? You must live in the country because here in the city, whites are no longer 19 out of 20. In fact, my workplace alone has about a 60/1 ratio...and everyone is different. From the Phillipines to Saudi Arabia.

Heck, many people here adore converts, and speak highly of the latest rapper or other nobody that converted to Islam. They also contain numbers of Islam's spread in their signatures.

Nobody is a nobody.

So, from the outside, Islam is on one hand a bunch of nutjobs eager to kill us (Al-Qaeda, etc) and on the other a bunch of people eager to convert us (many on this forum).

You forgot about the ones who just want to peacefully serve Allah.

So you can keep complaining about how the whiteys mistreat you, and the most self-hating bleeding heart white people will agree with you. The reality is, however, you don't really have a better place to be when it comes to religious freedom.

There is no religious freedom.

Maybe I'm sick of white people labelled as the only group that is racist or hateful. If you talk about white people hating or "oppressing" (whatever the hell that is supposed to mean) then you have a wide audience.

But if you talk about ill-will between different groups in India, or ill-will between Chinese and Japanese, you may find something exponentially more disturbing yet nobody will listen.

I never said whites were the only people, I said mostly.

She implied that white people are merely immigrants that crashed the native's show, which is basically true, but she hoped this would further illustrate how white people beat up everybody.

No. I implied that Natives were here first, not that white people beat up everybody. FFR, I am half white, in fact I have never even met my "black side" of the faimliy. Maybe thats why it hurts me when "whites" ridicule me. The fact is, it is almost always whites who make these remarks. Im not attacking the white race, it just so happens that it is them who do it.

Natives aren't any more understanding or tolerant than anybody else. It is true that what happened to them was bad, but that doesn't mean they will start loving you just because your skin color is somewhat similar.

Who said they were more anything? Who said they would love me?

If this was about her skin color, she would have had this treatment all her life. But her post seems to be talking about after she started wearing the scarf.

The mis-treatment I had as a child was nothing in comparison to this.

FFR I heard ignorance is bliss. Is it? Maybe you should read the posts before replying to them.

Other shiacat members, honestly, should I waste my time replying to FFR?

Edited by Zahra_Islam
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  • Veteran Member

(salam)

Canada is the one place I have always felt safe and accepted - and I dont see this changing any time soon... I find if I, myself, am open, friendly and accepting, I usually get a positive response.

And from my life experience as a person of mixed ethnicities, whites are not the only racists; racism has no direction. They are more subtle though, and effectively have more power.

However, try travelling alone through the airports in Europe if you are in for an adventure. :Hijabi:

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Salaam,

There is so much ignorance-based fear in the world. People fear what they don't understand. What is happening with you is unfair, and I am sorry that you are experiencing that. Perhaps there is a lesson you are meant to grasp from this situation? Or perhaps you are meant to help bring someone to a better understanding?

I feel sorrow for people who make those type of comments. Can you imagine how far they must be from God? It pains me to see so many lost souls in the world. Only through educating them can we eradicate this type of thinking.

Continue to stand strong sister. I pray for many blessings your way.

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(salam)

Canada is the one place I have always felt safe and accepted - and I dont see this changing any time soon... I find if I, myself, am open, friendly and accepting, I usually get a positive response.

And from my life experience as a person of mixed ethnicities, whites are not the only racists; racism has no direction. They are more subtle though, and effectively have more power.

However, try travelling alone through the airports in Europe if you are in for an adventure. :Hijabi:

(salam)

Sis , where in Canada do you live? I agree that Canada is safe, meaning I don't think anyone is going to blow up my house.....but the "racists" still exist.....if you're open and friendly or not. I work as a manager of a multi million dollar industry. I probably see about between 1000 - 5000 people per day. Sometimes they ask for the manager, and when I come out....they say "You're a manager???!??" like its unbelievable...one time a lady asked for someone else. Anyway, I am very open and friendly...in fact I make it a point to be extra nice and helpful, so people will see how "kind" Muslims are.

Thank you everyone for your replies. I have not heard of any other experiences...is it only me?? Maybe I'm in the wrong part of town.

No matter what happens, Alhamdulillah Allah (SWT) keeps me strong and patient. Inshallah maybe one day people will become more educated about Islam. The true Islam...not the stereotype.

Wasalam

Zahra

Edited by Zahra_Islam
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You'll all be glad that I was banned, for one reason or another. It is very difficult to reply, and I'm expecting another ban unfortunately.

Maybe I'm stubborn and opinionated, but I just felt the need to answer a few things...

No one said this was solely about skin color. But as she mentioned, her skin color coupled with her headscarf have been misconstrued by onlookers to somehow indicate her race/ethnicity. If they knew she was a biracial Canadian, I doubt they would be telling her to "go home". They made an assumption about her ethnicity/race (i.e. Arabiyya, as she mentioned) because of her headscarf, and proceeded to make remarks based on that. That's sounds strangely racist to me.

And Arabs aren't racist as well? Is this some sort of one way street, "let's criticize the whites" hour?

Ummm, Ok, thanks for the link. Now, could you plainly just say what you are trying to imply? What's the point here? Would things change if she had been assaulted? 'Cause that has happened to some muslim women donning a headscarf. too. How does that change things? And, how does this excuse the excuses you have made above?

Maybe I'm just tired of the amounts of duplicity in this forum in general.

Reading threads, I grew tired of people talking about the depravity of the west, yet in this thread we are holding westerners up to a higher standard of judgment.

Maybe my bitterness about this has surfaced here.

(salam)

How do I dispel some fears?? By not wearing hijab? Talking to them? What do you suggest?

I wish I could answer that question.

Maybe point out that Al-Qaeda and many other terrorist groups are mainly Sunni, you are not a foreigner, etc. (Don't mention Hizbullah or Iran at all :) )

Do you live in Canada? You must live in the country because here in the city, whites are no longer 19 out of 20. In fact, my workplace alone has about a 60/1 ratio...and everyone is different. From the Phillipines to Saudi Arabia.

While these Saudis at work might be nice, what I'm trying to say is the average Canadian isn't any less tolerant - even legally required to be more tolerant - than the average Saudi.

I don't know why you would expect a homosexual Canadian, or a female Canadian to tolerate your views.

You may as well wear a t-shirt to work saying "Women should have a dress code and I believe gays deserve eternal punishment".

You talk about other's intolerance, but I think you should really take some time on what you are asking people to swallow.

You forgot about the ones who just want to peacefully serve Allah.

Many see "Serving Allah" as "Serving Allah by building an environment Allah would like". Many people don't want to live in that environment.

There is no religious freedom.

How is there not? There is every Christian denomination under the sun, plus a lot of New Age [Edited Out]. You can believe what you want, and advertise it. It is both the best and worst thing about the west.

Other shiacat members, honestly, should I waste my time replying to FFR?

Well I think that has been decided for you because they are going to make it ever more difficult for me to voice my opinion.

I understand and I'm sorry that my view of the situation seems incredibly blunt, but what are you expecting?

An apology on behalf of all the white people in the world?

Or some people to join in and say "Yes, the west oppresses us!"? (The Iran fans just love this)

You're just going to tough it out, and hope that the extremists don't blow up more stuff.

You're in a minority, you will find prejudice. White people don't like white people, if you haven't noticed. Between european ethnicities there isn't very much friendship.

So as much as this seems like a sad story, most everyone is screwed in this way in many parts of the world. I don't know why we have to isolate white Canadians as some sort of "problem people".

(salam)

Canada is the one place I have always felt safe and accepted - and I dont see this changing any time soon... I find if I, myself, am open, friendly and accepting, I usually get a positive response.

And from my life experience as a person of mixed ethnicities, whites are not the only racists; racism has no direction. They are more subtle though, and effectively have more power.

However, try travelling alone through the airports in Europe if you are in for an adventure. :Hijabi:

Thank you!

I feel sorrow for people who make those type of comments. Can you imagine how far they must be from God? It pains me to see so many lost souls in the world. Only through educating them can we eradicate this type of thinking.

This sounds like you're implying that believing makes you nicer.

I think you'll find the most prejudiced are believers, buying tickets to Mel Gibson bible stories, waving the flag of any political party that cites scripture, and hating jews because it's the in thing to do.

(salam)

Sis , where in Canada do you live? I agree that Canada is safe, meaning I don't think anyone is going to blow up my house.....but the "racists" still exist.....if you're open and friendly or not. I work as a manager of a multi million dollar industry. I probably see about between 1000 - 5000 people per day. Sometimes they ask for the manager, and when I come out....they say "You're a manager???!??" like its unbelievable...one time a lady asked for someone else. Anyway, I am very open and friendly...in fact I make it a point to be extra nice and helpful, so people will see how "kind" Muslims are.

Thank you everyone for your replies. I have not heard of any other experiences...is it only me?? Maybe I'm in the wrong part of town.

No matter what happens, Alhamdulillah Allah (SWT) keeps me strong and patient. Inshallah maybe one day people will become more educated about Islam. The true Islam...not the stereotype.

Wasalam

Zahra

Well admittedly I probably am only aware of the stereotype.

I am not exposed to open-minded managers. Maybe I'm jaded because of all I see in my day to day is news of nutty attacks and prejudiced political views in disputes on this forum.

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(salam)

I have not heard of any other experiences...is it only me?? Maybe I'm in the wrong part of town.

Wasalam

Zahra

I can't speak to experiences as a Muslim, but I have a few friends who are indigenous(as in aboriginal/native tribes) to Canada and they tell HORRIBLE stories of racism. So, obviously you aren't alone.

Edited by AnotherUmmAli
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(salam)

I live in the greater Toronto area and I don't experience any of these remarks. In fact there are a lot of Muslims here, and most of the population is very open to learning about Islam. I've had a Greek Orthodox friend ask if he could pray with me in the Muslim way :P

Anyways sister, this is something that a lot of us are experiencing. There are Muslim reverts in every country suffering in the same way... like all the Muslim reverts in the Philippines who are being neglected by their community and forced to live in Muslim areas.

Try to hold tight... be close to the Muslim community, and best of all, have your faith in Allah. Read the du'a "Allahuma Yasser, wala tu 'asser" which means Allah make it easy, not difficult. Remember that every hardship is followed by ease, and surely Allah is rewarding you.

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This sounds like you're implying that believing makes you nicer.

I think you'll find the most prejudiced are believers, buying tickets to Mel Gibson bible stories, waving the flag of any political party that cites scripture, and hating jews because it's the in thing to do.

Well admittedly I probably am only aware of the stereotype.

LOL....it did for me, however, i was pretty nice to start with so it just strengthened something that was already there.

but that is not what I was intending to convey.

I just meant that for me personally, by keeping in mind how lost these type of people truly are, it helps me to be able to deal with these kinds of situations better.

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And Arabs aren't racist as well? Is this some sort of one way street, "let's criticize the whites" hour?

Maybe I'm just tired of the amounts of duplicity in this forum in general.

Reading threads, I grew tired of people talking about the depravity of the west, yet in this thread we are holding westerners up to a higher standard of judgment.

Maybe my bitterness about this has surfaced here.

And where in my responses did I say only "whites" are racist? Where in this whole thread did anyone say only "whites" are racist? I have never in my life witnessed "racism" to be the exclusive fault of any particular ethnicity. The reason we are talking about the "depravity of The West" is because a sister mentioned her experience in "The West". It's called trying to stay-on-topic. Nobody mentioned their experiences with arabs because that wasn't the topic of the thread; but that doesn't mean it doesn't exist. Had she mentioned her experience in "The East" I am absolutely positive MANY would have a lot of trashing talking about that as well. How are we holding "Westerners" to a higher standard? Where is the duplicity? Maybe your bitterness that has surfaced, is because you are reading into things that are not there; that you assume are there because of your past experiences here and elsewhere.

It is my sincere hope that your "bitterness" is addressed before it surfaces again; and please let us know if we can help dispel some of the assumptions or sources of your bitterness, GOD willing.

Wishing you peace and contentment.

Edited by Muslimah_IBe
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(salam)

Sis , where in Canada do you live? I agree that Canada is safe, meaning I don't think anyone is going to blow up my house.....but the "racists" still exist.....if you're open and friendly or not.

(salam)

I go to school in Vancouver and have lived in Toronto.

There are jerks everywhere, in every country - racism is only part of their misguided makeup but not always the presenting feature of their sparkling personalities. But, I find people fear and react to the unknown - this is not primarily racism -it is fear and confusion often from media garbage.. I make the first move to introduce myself, meet their eyes, dont step into their space - in other words I behave in as non threatening, accepting of them, way as I can - I look for and usually get a positive response - in Canada.

I know the difference. I have been openly threatened by people in airports in Germany (in Frankfurt by big men) - with people looking on silently (including men I knew were Muslim) - and there was no mistaking the intent. I have had comments made to me about my intent to travel on a plane - sarcastic remarks - sometimes with a smile. I dont think I am physically threatening - I am 5'5" and about 118 pounds.

There are mean people everywhere, who are mean to anyone - I am not going to assume it is racism unless I have a clear indication. I dont recall ever feeling that in Canada - really!! I can only speak for my situation and life experience - perhaps in the work world it is different. Universities and schools are perhaps more embracing of different cultures. However, generally, Canada to me is a tolerant friendly country, I am sorry you experienced something much different.

ws

Edited by Maryaam
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Wouldn't life be so easy if we were christian heterosexual white males? :P

You bring up a good point, Zahra. Although, I'm wondering where you're hanging out? I never have any problems with hijab in Toronto. I cannot really think of one incident off hand. It just goes to show how our experinces can vary greatly living in the same place.

And while I love the diversity here, I don't think we can call Canada a salad bowl just yet bro Ali. If we go outside of Toronto by just an hour to places like Georgetown there is loads of racism. I hear stories from a few that live there and it makes me think I'm back in Tomball, Texas!! I travelled from northern Alberta through Saskatewan, Manitoba, and Winnipeg and many small towns in Ontario. Almost all them were all white towns or white and native. Then there is huge amounts of racism and conflicts between the white ppl and the aboriginal.

As for the 5th issue, I don't know what to say Zahra. I think this perhaps one of the sorest spots for me and for the people I know. I would have to be here all night to relate to you the stories that I've been through and the stories of the Afro-Carribean community (which btw, they're all waiting to meet you!!). I guess it hurts more then hearing Anti-Islamic racism because this racism is from MUSLIMS! Muslims, our brothers, our protecters, our friends.... or so they're supposed to be. From my own experince, I haven't really found a place that is all that welcoming to black people. I find Al-Mahdi Centre to be one of the best though. That would be my centre if I had a car to get there.

Edited by Madre de Zahra
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You know, its a funny coincidence that 19 out of 20 people you will run into in Canada are white, so then it would then be fair to say that 19 out of 20 bad things are said by white people in Canada. Math is a wonderful thing.

I didn't know white people even existed in Canada until I went to Wonderland :!!!:.

Sis I guess these kind of remarks are expected. I personally haven't faced anything like this and I've been living here for 7 years.

Edited by Ali_Imran
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