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In the Name of God بسم الله
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Rawshni

Dialogue With Servidor

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(salam)

A necessary apology

I have been using the salutation, Mademoiselle for you.

A sister just pointed to me that this is not the case, and that I should check out your profile.

So please accept my sincere regrets.

_____________________

I cannot claim to the originator of this type of topic here at ShiaChat, but I do like to think that I have benefitted most from it.

I could well have engaged you in a dialogue via PM's or email, but there is a fond hope hope that more than just one can savaour your thoughts.

So here goes"

1. All I know about you are the few posts in the Personal Library topic, and a couple others that came my way. I'd love a bit more of an introduction. If there are any reservations, just pass.

2. How would you characterize our age:

-- the age of the productivity of information

-- the age of the productivity of misinformation

3. McLuhan said, the medium is the message. Does this hold true today?

4. If one were to assert that Peter Lombard was one of the main formative influences on St. Thomas Aquinas, would one be correct?

5. Your posts have a distinct aroma of philosophy. Could you enlighten me on this triangle: Aristotle -Averroes -Aquinas

More

Later

Edited by Rawshni

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^ could your questions get more philosophical, intellectual, analytical thn this?

u asked questions as if she were doin Phd in philosophy .....

Edited by "HaZeL"

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Servidor, this is gonna be interesting.

1) Why did you leave the religon of Islam? Which argument did you feel didn't satisfy your belief that led you to convert?

- Please state all the religons you converted to, and the reason of conversion.

2) How old were you when you involved your life into religon? Why were you so interested?

3) Your a self induced genius. Where/how did you motivate yourself to gain so much knowledge in so little time?

4) What career do you wish to pursue?

5) What type of things do you like to do in your spare time. Other than browsing ShiaChat.

6) When was the last time you heard from Ali Zaki? You both seem to be good friends?

7) What's the worst situation you had to experience in life?

8) What has been the most stunningly shocking experience in your life?

9) What's your ultimate goal in life?

10) State 10 things you would like to see changed in this world.

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1: from ur few posts that iv read u seem like quite an intellectual , poetic sort of person ... is this something inborn in u or u learnt from life?

2:how old r u exactly..?

3:whts ur educational qualification?

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From the outset, I will apologize for the length of the periods between posts...I try not to say much unless, it is perfectly silly or profoundly serious - in other words; I never want to waste a word. :angel: I wish to, either, make people smile - think - or both. ^_^ And there is no need for an apology of such a colourful caliber my dear---I generally do not feel it necessary to correct people on errors regards gender...till I am a father, it seldom makes a difference. Anyways, onto the questions then. . .

1. All I know about you are the few posts in the Personal Library topic, and a couple others that came my way. I'd love a bit more of an introduction. If there are any reservations, just pass.

2. How would you characterize our age:

-- the age of the productivity of information

-- the age of the productivity of misinformation

I should characterize these times of ours, as the latter. I have always lamented upon the fact, that one may actually commit a sort of "spiritual rape" by way of the mass production of falsehood, as per the loquacity of absolute nunces. It used to be an honour, a token to a man's intellectual sway and reputability, to be published. And to hold an actual audience - Deipara - what a person of paramount learning such a man would have to be, a veritable fountain of wisdom no doubt. . .Not any more. . .You can publish a book spitting on those culturally weaker than yourself, you may publish ads in College Newspapers denying, perhaps, the most horrific genocide known to man; you can revise history, smear her loftiest figures, misrepresent archival sources - but woe betide he who questions "modernity". :o...:dry:... ^_^... :wub:...Anyways; as for holding an audience, simply tape yourself saying precisely what a specific group of people want to hear and you've shamed even Christ upon the Mount.

Not only that; but in killing souls, modern tools have given the soulless a means to end those of others as well. The Internet, especially, has handed the threads to fools when it comes to dialectic; to the extent that a new fallacy of logic has been composed just to categorize them and their manner of argumentation: "Hurling the Elephant"...it is a most common intellectual punt of those who have not genuinely taken the time, patience and effort to carry out an honest study into these crucial issues which bear so heavily upon their own Eternity, and on whole - upon the Eternity of all others as well. . .

Thank Christ for peer reviewing, no? :angel:

3. McLuhan said, the medium is the message. Does this hold true today?

No. I don't believe it to have ever held true, as Aesop disproved this notion. :P

4. If one were to assert that Peter Lombard was one of the main formative influences on St. Thomas Aquinas, would one be correct?

Formative as in the manner in which he wrote? Or in terms of the one influencing and forming, in a sense, the others philosophic framework? In regards to the former, from what I have read of the Sentences and St. Thomas' Summa - I should say; that though they have a similar underlying programme, they are not particularly alike. St. Thomas presents questions and objections and then provides answers(usually after providing further objections), while Lombard seems to proceed with his subject quite ordinarily in contrast...As to the latter, I wouldn't suspect so. Though St. Thomas and Peter Lombard had a few commonalities; these can readily be accredited to a common influence(this barring those more obvious shared influences, both being scholastics and devout Roman Catholics and all), that is, Maimonides. It was St. Bonaventura who seems to have held Lombard's thought in such high esteem(he even wrote a massive commentary on Lombard's well hailed Sentences) and hence broken a lance many a time with St. Thomas. The kalaam cosmological argument comes to mind. St. Thomas took a more practical approach to the question of the universes age - whereas St. Bonaventura appears to have been wholly convinced that an actual infinite was impossible...they actually had a rather stimulating exchange on the whole matter...Lottie Kendzierski has offered a wonderful translation of the relevant texts, which is available from Marquette University Press. :)

5. Your posts have a distinct aroma of philosophy. Could you enlighten me on this triangle: Aristotle -Averroes -Aquinas

I contemn modern philosophy. :angel: True philosophy ended with Bergson, Marcel and Blondel(may Christ bless their departed souls). But, all that aside, I may indeed be able to shed some light on this peculiarly mismatched mélange. Aristotle was the first of the three to write and is considered, to this day, as perhaps the greatest philosopher, ever, to find footing under these heavens. Now, Averroes was one of the earliest Islamic(heterodox) theologians to commentate on Aristotle and he, quite strikingly, diverged from his intellectual predecessor on almost every score. Exempli gratia: Averroes held to a theory of human cognitive monism, the ideal of impersonality in immortality, the doctrine of a collective soul for all humankind, with no spatial-temporal presentiality, - all this and many, many, other odd notions which find no real warrant in the work of Aristotle. Thereon, St. Thomas returned to a purer version of Aristotelian thought and thus, not surprisingly, Averroes held no weight in St. Thomas' philosophic system - the only Catholic doctor who supported any of the late Muslim philosopher's ideas was Siger of Brabant and St. Thomas consequently, categorically, refuted all of Averroes metaphysical theories in trouncing Siger. The Saint's "De unitate intellectus contra Averroistas" ensured, with a sting, that the Catholic, and thus the European, strain of Averroism was born dead. So, I suppose the triangle runs as follows:

I) Aristotle authors many philosophical books.

II) Averroes finds them to be inspiring but proffers his own views, markedly contrary to those of Aristotle.

III) St. Thomas comes along, refutes what he takes to be Averroes novelties and thereupon returns to a purer form of Aristotelianism; which he felt confirmed the Catholic faith.

As for the rest of your questions, first and foremost, thank you for asking. :angel: It is truly humbling to see that you are so keen to inquire into this little Impish, Inquisitor Imp ^_^ although I shall have to return to this thread later on, most likely after my daily studies...My apologies once more.

. . .Meilleurs Voeux. . .

Edited by Servidor

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Servidor reminds me of the masked-man in V for Vendetta, the intellectualism, the way he has with words, the mannerisms, the hidden identity... but, what i don't understand is his aim, his purpose. What do you hold and what do you covet?

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5. Your posts have a distinct aroma of philosophy. Could you enlighten me on this triangle: Aristotle -Averroes -Aquinas

Maybe you wanted them to all start with As.... but, you should've said Ibn Sina instead of Aquinas in my opinion. He is generally thought of as the 'greatest Peripetatic (of Aristotle's tradition) Muslim philosopher'. However, to my understanding, it would be better said that he was the greated expounder of Aristotle's ideas (Al-Shifa). He did have his own independent ideas, but is perhaps not as famous for them.

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It was Karl Marx who said:

"Philosophers so far have attempted to to define the world; the point, however, is to change it."

and Mahtama Gandhi said:

"Be the change you want to see"

The Marxian pronouncement seems to allude to collective social effort. The Gandhian seems to point towards self realization.

Do you concur?

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2. How would you characterize our age:

-- the age of the productivity of information

-- the age of the productivity of misinformation

I would state that our age is filled with a mix of information as well as misinformation, these two ideas go hand in hand. we have the believers that try to prove their point religiiously, academically, through rhyme and reason, and on the other hand we have propaganda artists that benefit from the confused public and jump unto band wagons all in their favor. Now more so then before i think misinformation is the name of the game it is a dismal outlook but being a Muslim nowadays is not easy. (not physically but more so ideologically, one has to constantly prove that the religion is not about oppression and violence).

3. McLuhan said, the medium is the message. Does this hold true today?

Very much so. the medium in this particular case is the Western thought as well as the media. with neo zionists in power throughout the U.S and with most other influential countries backing them, their way is so to speak the right way. an average person does not even know what a Muslim is. most adolescents are busy with everyday life as well as pop culture to care about anything else, their only source of information is the news, and that is biased alot of times to confuse people. The slogan, "the medium is the message", is best understood in light of Mcluhan's colleague Lonergan, his further articulation of this statement leads one to believe that: at the empirical level of consciousness, the medium is the message, whereas at the intelligent and rational levels of consciousness, the content is the message. In the last few years there has been a resurgence of intelligent thought the true message is leaking out there slowly but surely.

4. If one were to assert that Peter Lombard was one of the main formative influences on St. Thomas Aquinas, would one be correct?

Peter Lombards most famous work was the Four Books of Sentences, which became the standard textbook of theology no work of Christian literature, except for the Bible itself, was commented upon more frequently. Lombard did influence Aquinas no doubt, notably because from the 1220s until the 16th century no other christian text was as complete as his. Aquinas believed that truth is known through reason and faith. he was more of a Aristotelian then anything else.

5. Your posts have a distinct aroma of philosophy. Could you enlighten me on this triangle: Aristotle -Averroes -Aquinas

If one was to break down the three via time, Aristotle would be at the top of the pyramid and the two offshoots would be Averroes and Aquinas. Aristotle first came up with the idea of metaphysics as "the knowledge of immaterial being", or of "being in the highest degree of abstraction". this was before the time of the spread of Christianity.

looking next at Averroes as a leg of the triangle he came about after Aristotle's time. he wrote commentaries on most of the surviving works of Aristotle. He tried to integrate, Aristotle's system of thought with Islam. According to him, there is no conflict between religion and philosophy, rather that they are different ways of reaching the same truth. He believed in the eternity of the universe. He also held that the soul is divided into two parts, one individual and one divine; while the individual soul is not eternal, all humans at the base level share one and the same divine soul.

Aquinas as mentioned above also started writing long after Aristotle, Aquinas believed "that for the knowledge of any truth whatsoever man needs Divine help, that the intellect may be moved by God to its act." This divine help was produced by the self-revelation of God to individuals. Like Averroes Aquinas tried to reconcile Christianity and philosophy by suggesting that rational thinking and the study of nature, like revelation, were valid ways to understand God.

Edited by mkazmi

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I liked servidor's answers better for the record, i came up with these off the cuff, no research or anything, (im sure he did to.. :blush: ) therefore they are not to in depth.

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Maybe you wanted them to all start with As.... but, you should've said Ibn Sina instead of Aquinas in my opinion. He is generally thought of as the 'greatest Peripetatic (of Aristotle's tradition) Muslim philosopher'. However, to my understanding, it would be better said that he was the greated expounder of Aristotle's ideas (Al-Shifa). He did have his own independent ideas, but is perhaps not as famous for them.

It wasn't the alliteration. It was the polemic.

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1) Why did you leave the religon of Islam? Which argument did you feel didn't satisfy your belief that led you to convert?

. . .There is an already existing thread which covers this issue, quite, sufficiently to my mind. Click Here.

- Please state all the religons you converted to, and the reason of conversion.

Islam: Now, I believe it to be the militancy of Islam which attracts young men such as myself. Being a troubled youth, addicted to anger, self-hating - all hating - and in our furthest feelings: lonely and scared. We long, I feel, for justice. We thirst for it and at the slightest taste of it, like a homeless man sipping cheap wine for the first time in a decade, it goes straight to our head and we become tipsy thereon. Nevertheless, one may only remain tipsy for so long, till thirst's intrusive sister makes herself known and O how lady hunger arrests one's attention, almost, immediately after they have quenched their thirst. Naturally, don't you know, "It is dull, Son of Adam, to drink without eating." For fine wine, you see, goes with bread; and, I must say, there is more than enough for everyone. Moreover, Islam, as I was alluding to afore, provides young individuals such as myself, who, heretofore, pride ourselves upon being good "soldiers"; with an able army. Not in the modern media, "anti-Islamic", type sense - rather, in the elemental sense of a strict disciplinary system, whereby virtue isn't attained through reciprocal act with God, on the contrary, instead it is founded on stringent submission thereto. It is hard for a career criminal to pray to a crucified Man-God who admonished men to, of all the quaint notions, Love one another. On the same token it is easy, if not perfectly natural, for just such a man, to follow an individual who taught a supremely pragmatic regime and whose doctrine was not rooted within a mutual love which, marvelously enough, makes a man fall to his knees without thought; but rather, who based his programme upon the same principle behind a prizefighters instinct - like a boxer who goes head up, pound per pound, fist for fist, with a mighty opponent and who, after being put on his back, stays down - not because he thinks himself weak, but because he sees his opponent is stronger...

Roman Catholicism: See link provided above.

I also had a terse touch of atheism and, unfortunately, took a terrible tumble into agnosticism; although, as I pointed out elsewhere, the aforesaid are not religions - they are belief systems. Now, my atheism was a brief loss of my critical faculties. A veritable victory for my base burnings of society induced sensuality. I ran back to the dire denizens of my past and satiated every lust you could imagine (every lust :donno: ). Whereas my agnosticism was a sort of profound sorrow...I wasn't angry with God...I was simply saddened, this is true of most agnostics. It is not so much an indecision as to whether or not God exists, rather, it is an indecision as to whether we believe in Him(I can know well enough that my brother exists, it is another issue entirely as to whether or not I believe in him) and, further, as to whether we actually should. I maintain, as every Catholic does, that the reason for this confusion, is owing to a misstep of humanity - something is amiss and we are in desperate need of aid in getting back in proper pace and sound step, with the Catholic (Latin for "Universal") Symphony.

Our Christ is Help, and then some. . .

2) How old were you when you involved your life into religon? Why were you so interested?

To be perfectly honest...I spent my nights, at age fourteen, in my last refuge center crying, while crestfallenly dreaming my days away; I told myself that everything would get better and I sought solace in a mission of some sort. Gangs first, boxing second, basketball third and finally national, or counter-national, service --- I considered it all; that is until one night, of a sudden: I lost it. I thought I was going insane. My room seemed darker, my chest pushed in on itself and I became ever afraid of myself: I saw nothingness.

Digression: This imp can hardly touch upon such a point without emphasizing its, all but, Catholicity (universality) in itself. My kindred spirits on this score are an army of souls ranging from St. Thérèse of Lisieux to Mother Theresa; a fact whose truth is owed, I believe, to the very seed of modernity. Jacques Rivière, who is already a veritable father for me, indeed, in the most literal sense of the word - is yet, a more than personal connection in this respect; so much so that I feel he alone affords us, in himself, with a most striking paragon of the depth of this spiritual conditions hold on those isolated in intelligencia and or those, poor souls, to be later affected, - afflicted rather -, by it. His "disease" is, more than less, identical to my own here described --- for more on this see: Correspondance avec Paul Claudel, Gallimard (1926); published in English as: Letters to a Doubter, Roman Catholic Books (?) as translated, wonderfully, by Henry Longan Stuart.

End of digression.

I couldn't believe anything at all. My scientistic upbringing had tied me to the notion that there is no "100%" certainty, just approximation. I still shudder at one of the more vivid of my childhood memories, wherein my stepfather, a wonderful British fellow and a Professor of English in Sydney, avowed his atheism to me and spoon fed me modernity (age twelve) ...Bertrand Russel's response to solipsism and Mackie's to nihilism, was, quite simply, that though these, horrid, world views are irrefutable - they are monumentally improbable. Life was a probability calculus, according to wise men such as my esteemed stepfather, and I was quite brave enough to admit as much; and yet, quite sharp enough, at least in my cage of self reflection, to see that there is no point in perpetuating the pointless. I saw ready razor blades on the cupboard and purposeless probabilities everywhere else. I was torn between insanity, shaking and wishing for light; or suicide, shivering and wanting darkness.

Until one evening, it hit me.

Why should I suffer to swallow the Western ideal of fallibilistic empiricism? If we are, as per evolution, geared toward survival - then why would the truth hurt me so? If natural selection teaches us anything it is that our innermost instinctual desires find, full blooded, warrant in reality and such expectancy is naturally met in nature. Man hungers, food grows from the soil. Man thirsts, water is found in rivers. If we incline toward a purposive universe and have such an abysmal lust for God, why the fear to admit as much and find that Supersubstantial bread and Divine wine? I at long last, gorged upon what my Mamo would call: "Freisinn" - "Free Thought". Religion was thus a necessity. I lived for a question; whose power alone, thank Christ and every Saint to breath in his Name, saved my wrists from the last cold, calculated, kiss of stainless steel - this, the solitary query, alone worth answering. I dedicated my life from that moment, up until my conversion to Roman Catholicism, duteously so, to that particular question. Not, "does God exist", rather, "who is, God?". I, for all practical purposes, worshiped it, till I found God; not as a pie in the sky, but as an unconsoled consoler. . .While I fixed my eyes upon the heavens searching Him out; I grew altogether frustrated, so much so that I crossed my arms and swore never to raise my eyes from the ground ever again. Until, to my breathless surprise, I found at my feet ... this very same God whom I had sought in all else; except myself: Humanity.

I uncrossed my arms and made the Sign of the Cross - been doing so every day, ever since.

3) Your a self induced genius. Where/how did you motivate yourself to gain so much knowledge in so little time?

No. I am not a genius, I am a child - a perennial child and my Crown is Simplicity, adorned with the threefold jewels which we know as; Honesty, Certainty and Sympathy. Regards the fountainhead of my motivation, I believe my answer to the previous question shall suffice, presently, as an answer as well. . .

4) What career do you wish to pursue?

I am a poet by vocation, hence writing is written on the wall---and I intend to dedicate my life to France, by way of politics...My Mamo named me Rémy after St. Remigus: the Saint who made France - in my heart's, pulsing, initiative, I feel I have no right not to attempt the very best that lay in my powers, however meagre that may be. I see Europe falling not from Grace, but from Humanity. I see the exact opposite of what my namesake saw from his lonely window as night imbued the hiemal hues of dawn and I hold it as my inherited devoir, my destiny, to take up, this, my shared Cross...though I can only bear it under the darkened depths of Navy lined, Grey, storm clouds...

5) What type of things do you like to do in your spare time. Other than browsing ShiaChat.

Read, tend to Tawdry, :wub: (my cat) write, walk. . .I also love Ballets O, and I listen to plenty of music - I am always on the lookout for a Symphony to drown myself in for a few hours...As you can imagine ^_^ I am painfully shy, so I don't have many friends and I fear for my soul should I ever incline towards my past disposition, again, in order to gain some.

. . .Mamo, Mary - Church and Christ, more than enough for this Impish Inquisitor Imp. For now. . . :angel:

6) When was the last time you heard from Ali Zaki? You both seem to be good friends?

:cry: Months ago, every now and then I check his profile to see if he has been on...he hasn't written me in ages...I'm sorry, I am just as unsure as yourself in this respect...

7) What's the worst situation you had to experience in life?

Loving my father and yet realizing that to ever return to him, was to doom myself to a life of abuse. I have a surprisingly sharp retention regards my childhood, I can conjure up memories from as early as age two...One of the earliest such memories, was my father throwing me across the room and thereupon seeing that I had hit my head on the wooden frame and then coming to my comfort, telling me, quite solemnly, that he loved me - and promising that he would never do it again. That night, my mom took me away. . .There was a wisping overhead. I tightened my eyelids till they bled tears - softly seeping from the lightless cracks and sharply piercing the blurred blinds to these windows of this broken man of just two years of age. . .I couldn't tell if I was alive or if I was dead. . .it becomes more and more sporadic from then on. . .

8) What has been the most stunningly shocking experience in your life?

My Epiphany of Christ, '. . .autem beati oculi, quia vident - blessed are your eyes, because they see. . .'

9) What's your ultimate goal in life?

To be an example, though one of anonymity like my dearest Alma Mater. I am a road to Rome. Follow me, and forget me.

And finally; I have declined to answer your final question, principally, due to the fact that I have not the time to do it justice. That, and I am not, precisely, confident that I have any real idea as to how I should possibly array the proper priorities of all humankind. . .I, with the first Catholic poet St. John, shall simply say:

Carissimi, non mandatum novum scribo vobis sed mandatum vetus,

quod habuistis ab initio: mandatum vetus est verbum, quod audistis. . .

Quoniam haec est annuntiatio, quam audistis ab initio, ut diligamus alterutrum. -

Dearly beloved, I write not a new commandment to you,

but an old commandment which you had from the beginning. . .

For this is the declaration which you have heard from the beginning,

that you should love one another.

As our Christ has said,

Si praecepta mea servaveritis, manebitis in dilectione mea,

sicut ego Patris mei praecepta servavi et maneo in eius dilectione. . .

Hoc est praeceptum meum, ut diligatis invicem, sicut dilexi vos. -

If you keep my commandments, you shall abide in my love:

as I also have kept my Father's commandments and do abide in his love. . .

This is my commandment, that you love one another,

as I have loved you.

I will be back soon, I hope. :angel:

. . .Meilleurs Voeux. . .

Edited by Servidor

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3) Your a self induced genius. Where/how did you motivate yourself to gain so much knowledge in so little time?
No. I am not a genius, I am a child - a perennial child and my Crown is Simplicity, adorned with the threefold jewels which we know as; Honesty, Certainty and Sympathy. I

You either forgot to mention Curiosity, or presumed that without Curiosity there can be no child?

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Do you have dissociative identity disorder? (No offense intended in this question, just that you have the intelligence and creativity, coupled with the traumatic childhood which tend to preclude this disorder.)

If you were to die today, God forbid, would you consider your life to have been fulfilling?

Besides knowledge and understanding, what do you seek most in life?

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