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In the Name of God بسم الله

Burning Israel To The Ground

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Frankly I have become quite sick of talking about peaceful resolution. Been trying it for 50 years and it doesn't work.

I am Pakistani but I am bothered that it is only the shias who are putting up a real upfront to the terrorist state of Israel. Its time Iran and Lebanon stopped baring the scars of the slaughter

How many of you buy Coke and other Israeli products. Coke proudly gives 30% of its profits to Israel. We can bankrupt them by letting the public know which products lead to funds for Israel.

the fact is that if muslims united we could destroy any power oppressing us. If all the Muslim countries united then even if they killed a hundred of us for everyone of theirs we would still win. Unity amongst the followers of Muhammed (pbuh) is something we need desperately to win

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^^^^^^

(salam) ,

Ok let's see here, Israel is planning to take over the middle east, kill hundereds of innocent people, are minipulating America's minds and not to mention are the cause of what's happening today between muslims all around the world. If you think we are just going to sit back, relax and pretend like nothing is happening then think again. You obviously don't care what the Israels are doing but we do. So please do us a favor and keep quiet.

Wasalam

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Ok let's see here, Israel is planning to take over the middle east,

Who in the world told you this? Your 60 year old local Imam that doesn't know his head from his legs? How about you talk to normal Israeli people and see if they truly are intending taking over the middle east like you claim?

Edited by ProudAmerican
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(salam) ,

It's funny how all that they are doing still is not enough to prove to you they are trying to take over the middle east. Can you not see what is right infront of your eyes? I guess not. Let me tell you something. They are smart, very smart. They know how to play with the human mind. Why are they attcking Lebanon or Palestine and this whole Iraq and America war is all their doing? Yes they know exactally what their doing. Slowely they are trying to take over what they think is rightfully their own. It's interesting how they are the smallest group of people yet they are the most powerful in all the world. In the end they will not succeed. It's funny how some people have eyes yet they are still blind. Anyways, i would appreciate it if you would not insult our scholars.

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Israel is illegally occupying Palestine, they need to go occupy Germany if they really want payback..

Well to tell you who's bullying who just look at this:

- America gives billions to Israel every year

- Israel has the 2nd or 4th largest army in the world

- Israel has been in a war with nearly ever Arab nation

- Israel kills Palestinians but it never makes the news, but when Palestinians fight back and kill Israelis it makes huge headlines to twist the aggressor

- Israel calls the resistance terrorists because they blow themselves up and kill innocents, but if Israel kills innocents than why can't the resistance?

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Israel is illegally occupying Palestine, they need to go occupy Germany if they really want payback..

Oh really? Then why are you not crying for the Greeks that had half of their country chopped off by the Muslim Turks and took all the Asia Minor land? Its called WAR - the winner gets what they want. Arabs lost, get over it. You should be happy Jews are still letting you have a country even thou you could go to some 20 other Arab nations to live.

- America gives billions to Israel every year

Muslim countries only like to help out Muslim nations.

- Israel has the 2nd or 4th largest army in the world

They have to have a large army because they are surrounded by Muslim nations that could attack them any minute. Do you want them to just grow flowers and give you jiza?

- Israel has been in a war with nearly ever Arab nation

And every single one of those Arab countries where the instigator (the one that started the war)

How each war Began;

1948 war - Rejection of UNGA Res. 181 and Israeli DoI by Arab states

1967 War - Egyptian naval blockade of the Straits of Tiran, its military buildup in the Sinai Peninsula, and its expulsion of UN forces, as well as Syrian support for Fedayeen incursions into Israel.

1973 War - Arabs wanted land back lost from 1967 War

2006 Lebanon - Hizbollah enters Israel and kidnaps Israel soldiers.

- Israel calls the resistance terrorists because they blow themselves up and kill innocents, but if Israel kills innocents than why can't the resistance?

Because when Arab-Muslim-Palestinian goes and blows himself up, he is intending to kill civilians, where as if the Israeli Army kills an innocent, it is usually an accident.

Let me tell you something. They are smart, very smart.

I know! Don't you wish your people were as smart as the Jews?

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Oh really? Then why are you not crying for the Greeks that had half of their country chopped off by the Muslim Turks and took all the Asia Minor land? Its called WAR - the winner gets what they want. Arabs lost, get over it. You should be happy Jews are still letting you have a country even thou you could go to some 20 other Arab nations to live.

Muslim countries only like to help out Muslim nations.

They have to have a large army because they are surrounded by Muslim nations that could attack them any minute. Do you want them to just grow flowers and give you jiza?

And every single one of those Arab countries where the instigator (the one that started the war)

How each war Began;

1948 war - Rejection of UNGA Res. 181 and Israeli DoI by Arab states

1967 War - Egyptian naval blockade of the Straits of Tiran, its military buildup in the Sinai Peninsula, and its expulsion of UN forces, as well as Syrian support for Fedayeen incursions into Israel.

1973 War - Arabs wanted land back lost from 1967 War

2006 Lebanon - Hizbollah enters Israel and kidnaps Israel soldiers.

Because when Arab-Muslim-Palestinian goes and blows himself up, he is intending to kill civilians, where as if the Israeli Army kills an innocent, it is usually an accident.

I know! Don't you wish your people were as smart as the Jews?

Jews and muslims co existed peacefully before the europeans began their interference. Since then the zionists have occupied arab lands through force, terror and intimidation (eg 1956 war) backed by its allies europe and the US. It is only natural for the arabs to fight back and try to reclaim what is rightfuly theirs. unfortunatley due to several factors including disunity and unproportional logistical and financial support for israel in comparison to the arabs israel has no doubt come out victorious in several of these encounters. But what we saw last summer was the tide turning, the begining of the end for israel....when israel came up against true muslims. Israel is built on myths: "we are the chosen people", "we never instigated the wars, it was the arabs", "israel is a tiny state amongst its enemies trying to survive" and exaggerations constantly perpetuated by the media and western govs. This is what bro yaimamali was reffering to, not smart but cunning, sly, able to minipulate to reache their goals, but with the revival of the shia these myths will be exposed.

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Frankly I have become quite sick of talking about peaceful resolution. Been trying it for 50 years and it doesn't work.

Thanks for the proof that Islam isn't about peace and understanding.

I am Pakistani but I am bothered that it is only the shias who are putting up a real upfront to the terrorist state of Israel. Its time Iran and Lebanon stopped baring the scars of the slaughter

Last time I heard, the only one slaughtering innocents was Hamas.

How many of you buy Coke and other Israeli products. Coke proudly gives 30% of its profits to Israel. We can bankrupt them by letting the public know which products lead to funds for Israel.

This isn't true.

But what is true that parts of your computer were designed in Israel.

And much of the software developed came from an Israeli.

So.... get off the internet! Thanks.

the fact is that if muslims united we could destroy any power oppressing us. If all the Muslim countries united then even if they killed a hundred of us for everyone of theirs we would still win. Unity amongst the followers of Muhammed (pbuh) is something we need desperately to win

Israel isn't oppressing Islam.

What do you wish to win? The Negev Desert? Will that make you happy? A bunch of arid land?

Or Jerusalem? Will that make you happy? An ancient, worthless city of religious wingnuts?

Is that worth the blood?

It's nice to hear that you value dirt more than people.

Some faith you have.

^^^^^^

(salam) ,

Ok let's see here, Israel is planning to take over the middle east, kill hundereds of innocent people, are minipulating America's minds and not to mention are the cause of what's happening today between muslims all around the world. If you think we are just going to sit back, relax and pretend like nothing is happening then think again. You obviously don't care what the Israels are doing but we do. So please do us a favor and keep quiet.

Wasalam

You seem to be sitting back and relaxing right now.

Or are you typing with a gun in your hand?

Israel is illegally occupying Palestine, they need to go occupy Germany if they really want payback..

Germany lost 2 wars, and lost territory. Arabs lost more than 2 wars, and they lost territory.

There was no state of Palestine. Israel's land came from the mandate, and before that, the ottomans.

Well to tell you who's bullying who just look at this:

- America gives billions to Israel every year

America also funds the Palestinian government

- Israel has the 2nd or 4th largest army in the world

So? Are you jealous?

- Israel has been in a war with nearly ever Arab nation

And the Arab nations started them.

- Israel kills Palestinians but it never makes the news, but when Palestinians fight back and kill Israelis it makes huge headlines to twist the aggressor

Simply untrue, you're a conspiracy theorist and a paranoid nutjob.

- Israel calls the resistance terrorists because they blow themselves up and kill innocents, but if Israel kills innocents than why can't the resistance?

Israel doesn't blow up coffee shops with bombs strapped to brainwashed grandmothers.

Jews and muslims co existed peacefully before the europeans began their interference. Since then the zionists have occupied arab lands through force, terror and intimidation (eg 1956 war) backed by its allies europe and the US. It is only natural for the arabs to fight back and try to reclaim what is rightfuly theirs. unfortunatley due to several factors including disunity and unproportional logistical and financial support for israel in comparison to the arabs israel has no doubt come out victorious in several of these encounters. But what we saw last summer was the tide turning, the begining of the end for israel....when israel came up against true muslims. Israel is built on myths: "we are the chosen people", "we never instigated the wars, it was the arabs", "israel is a tiny state amongst its enemies trying to survive" and exaggerations constantly perpetuated by the media and western govs. This is what bro yaimamali was reffering to, not smart but cunning, sly, able to minipulate to reache their goals, but with the revival of the shia these myths will be exposed.

"It's the media, It's the media"

Beginning to sound like a broken record dude.

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Proud American/freedomfromreligion

Israel doesn't respect peace in general

phil-shot3.jpg

I know how frustrating it must be to have to put up with terrorist protesters

b2copy.jpg

Lets shoot up some peace activists they sponsor terror

b1copy.jpg

They might get the truth out to the world get them too

At the end of these

israeli-girls-shells.jpg

..........

Are scenes like this :cry:

lebanon-mother-and-child.jpg

Courageous_israeli.jpg why don't your legitimate unbiased friends stop this hate crime????

israeli%20child%20abuse.jpeg

Israelis aren't hateful just opinionated

Through all this we still stand united

palestine.JPG

Proof^

Edited by Ya Aba 3abdillah
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Proud American/freedomfromreligion

Israel doesn't respect peace in general

I know how frustrating it must be to have to put up with terrorist protesters

Lets shoot up some peace activists they sponsor terror

They might get the truth out to the world get them too

At the end of these

..........

Are scenes like this :cry:

why don't your legitimate unbiased friends stop this hate crime????

Israelis aren't hateful just opinionated

Through all this we still stand united

Proof^

Would you change your mind if I put a picture of every jew that Hamas has killed?

You seem to scour the internet for pictures of dead people, then take them out of context and say the Israelis were at fault.

If your "stand" against Israel is some images of a hormonal teenager throwing rocks, instead of some sort of intellectual argument, then I am not impressed.

Edited by Ya Aba 3abdillah
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Salaam,

You know what ProudAmerican and Freedomforreligion, I guess you're right....

yaimamali and IraqMuslim, they are right I mean c'mon why are we bothering about Israel I mean, lets, as ProudAmerican put it,

live you life man

And I'm pretty sure that both him and Freedomformreligion wouldn't mind if we went into their house, maybe kill a few of their family members, kick them out into the streets and then

live 'our' life man (in thir house)
, I'm sure since they seem to have no problem against someone else doing that to somebody, I mean what possible objection could they have against our doing it, oh...wait, I got an even better idea, if a bunch of us do this together, in one area, we could then even call it our very own country!!!!! :) amazing isn't it, oh, I've even got an awsome idea for a flag, man, I love this idea.....

And, then if, God forbid, ProudAmerican/Freedomfromreligion decide to protest against this, we'll simply kidnap them, keep them 'inside' for a few days, dunno, maybe torture them, threaten them, maybe kill a few other protesters and if they still continue to defy us, and are forced to fight for what belongs to them, we'll call them a group of filthy terrorists and use this excuse to attack them.

C'mon, Iraqmuslim and yaimamali, amazing isn't it!!!!!

bush_israel_flag.jpg

^^^My suggestion for the flag of our very own country built on 'our destined' land^^^

I think I've made my point very clear..........

Did you know, that nearly 1/3rd of Israel is built on Palestinian private land, do you know of how many resolutions have been passed against Israel by the United nations which no one 'felt' like enforcing, oh, but if any resolution is passed against any country that opposes the occupation of Israel like Iran, oh, then everyone goes running like rats to enforce that resolution. If you want, you tell me and I'll get you an entire list of the resoltuions passed by the United Nations against Israel, oh and thats just the cream of the top, there are a lot more reasons why we oppose the existence of Israel which I'll post later.

And another thing, we don't and I repeat WE DON'T HAVE ANYTHING AGAINST JEWS, through out the previous debate you kept referring to Jews, well we don't have anything against them, they are brothers for us, it is the government of Israel that we are against and if they happen to be Jews, well, sorry, but whether they are Muslims, Christians, or Muslims, or Hindus, or Buddhists or Zorastrians, or Atheists, or anything else, if they are with Israel and are supporting it, well then, even they are our enemies, because, perhaps, you didn't know, but there are many many Jews themselve who are against Israel because of the inhumane crimes that it has commmitted.

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If your "stand" against Israel is some images of a hormonal teenager throwing rocks, instead of some sort of intellectual argument, then I am not impressed.

I'm not looking for your approval but since a picture=1000 words i went with the picture. There is a reason a teenager is throwing rocks in a war zone, he is justified

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By that logic America should not exist (remember the Native Americans?)

no offense, but Native Americans still live here and are greatly respected ........

... and about 1,000 of these same Native American Indians risk their lives today as Americans in Iraq

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no offense, but Native Americans still live here and are greatly respected ........

So what when they were living under Muslim rule they were greatly respected.

.. and about 1,000 of these same Native American Indians risk their lives today as Americans in Iraq

So what when they were living under Muslim rule they were greatly respected.

Doesnt change the fact that thier land was stolen from them by deceit and force.

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Doesnt change the fact that thier land was stolen from them by deceit and force.

..but their descendants are afforded certain rights that other Americans are not (scholarships, tax advantages among others)....my great grandmother was American Indian, but I'm not crying about some dirt in the pan handle of Texas. I respect my ancestors , but don't feel i'm entitled to anything because of them. i'll make my own way.

...the sooner Palestinians realize they are just being used as pawns by the likes of Iran, the sooner they can establish a state and give their children a chance at a peaceful, normal life

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Thanks for the proof that Islam isn't about peace and understanding.

Peace and understanding is all good in Islam but Islam does not say apply peace and understanding when people are oppressing you, read up on the battle of Karbala and you will see what Islam says about oppression and tyranny.

Islam teaches us to be free from oppression, are you suggesting that the Palestinians as a whole are not subjected to oppression? Their houses demolished, they have been beaten up randomly so is that not oppression? Note here wiseguy I am not talking abt Hamas I am referring to Palestinians, not all Palestinians are members of Hamas and Hamas is not all of Palestine either so dont try to play that card!

^ Jews lived in Israel before it was a state. They didn't have to kick out anybody, and if they did, it was probably to do with the three wars that the Arabs started.

So by that assumption I can even justify the Shias removing Sunnis from Iraq since Salahuddin removed all Shias when he came into power and banned all faiths apart from Sunnism does that make it right? I think not!

Israelis and Palestinians co-existed way before the Zionists came and started spreading their ideology. If Palestinians represented all the Arab world then sure kick them out but was that the case? No it was not hence on what assumption does Israel justify kicking Palestinians out of their land?

There was no state of Palestine. Israel's land came from the mandate, and before that, the ottomans.

David Ben Gurion would disagree with you abt the above statement :)

“Let us not ignore the truth among ourselves … politically we are the aggressors and they defend themselves… The country is theirs, because they inhabit it, whereas we want to come here and settle down, and in their view we want to take away from them their country.”

David Ben Gurion

America also funds the Palestinian government

Did the fund the democratically elected Hamas government?

And the Arab nations started them.

Did Egypt start a war too with Israel or was it the other way around, care to verify that?

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(salam) ,
I know! Don't you wish your people were as smart as the Jews?

Actually i was refering to how smart they are when they want to play America's mind. Jews are controling America. America is just stupid and dosen't know it. One day America is going to go down so bad and it will be because of Israel.

But I dont get it! If we Americans are so stupid then how come Muslims can't control us? Why the Jews control us? Their are more Muslims then Jews in America.

Confused American :unsure:

Did the fund the democratically elected Hamas government?

Would you fund a terrorist organization that is out to destroy your ally? Of course not!

If Palestinians represented all the Arab world then sure kick them out but was that the case? No

Umm yes it was. Why do you think all Arab states fought on behalf of the Palestinians?

Islam teaches us to be free from oppression, are you suggesting that the Palestinians as a whole are not subjected to oppression? Their houses demolished, they have been beaten up randomly so is that not oppression?

I can show you a thousand example of Muslim oppression on Christian in todays time. Why don't you go cry about that? Hypocrite.

Edited by ProudAmerican
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The main problem we have is how the leaders of many arab countries are in the financial pockets of the US. They keep the shia-sunni conflict burning because a united ummah can destroy both the terrorist state of Israel and beat the US as well

oh and proud american go type burning american flag on youtube. over 140 of the 175 countries in this world burn american flags. your keep on using capitalism to exploit the world which is why you are hated so much; even by us Canadians every sitcom we have shows out contempt of you.

even today the capitalists of the US have forced Cuba into economic depression because you fear their socialist policies them effecting you. big corporations and the rich getting richer; that's what america is about

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Would you fund a terrorist organization that is out to destroy your ally? Of course not!

Hamas was elected democratically and were the Palestinian Government period! You can cry and label them as terrorists all you want but that does not change facts that they came through the right means to power. More to that why is Israel and US freezing Hamas assets and at the same time allow weaponary to go through to Fatah? Hypocrites!

Umm yes it was. Why do you think all Arab states fought on behalf of the Palestinians?

Behalf of Palestinians? Which Arab states? Egypt? Jordon? Which ones and whom did they fight? As I asked in my post who attacked Egypt?

I can show you a thousand example of Muslim oppression on Christian in todays time. Why don't you go cry about that? Hypocrite.

Dont try to change the subject by making a personnal attack on me. We are talking abt Palestine, if you cannot keep with the topic then avoid posting. Simple as that!

Edited by A follower
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Hamas was elected democratically and were the Palestinian Government period! You can cry and label them as terrorists all you want but that does not change facts that they came through the right means to power. More to that why is Israel and US freezing Hamas assets and at the same time allow weaponary to go through to Fatah? Hypocrites!

They came through the right means to power? By promising Palestinians that they would burn Isreal to the ground. my, my empty promises and unwillingness to honor any previous agreements by Palestinian leadership and you expect the world to take them seriously. Fatah leadership is at least looking for a solution other than violence and that is why the west is trying to work a solution with them for the benefit of Palestinian peoples that deserve some peace. Hamas will not be rewarded for their violent stance (Except from Iran of course)

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They came through the right means to power? By promising Palestinians that they would burn Isreal to the ground. my, my empty promises and unwillingness to honor any previous agreements by Palestinian leadership and you expect the world to take them seriously. Fatah leadership is at least looking for a solution other than violence and that is why the west is trying to work a solution with them for the benefit of Palestinian peoples that deserve some peace. Hamas will not be rewarded for their violent stance (Except from Iran of course)

Promising Palestinains that they would burn Israel to the ground? In which speech did you heard that from the Hamas leader before the elections or where did he state that in his manifesto can you please point that out to me?

Fatah is only singing along with the US lines is because of the support they are getting via Israel. They know themselves that if they go against Israel then they would lose out US and Israel both and hence be in a same situation as Hamas so they would prefer to lick the shoes of Israel and US and live off what is thrown to them.

Benefit of Palestinian people? Oh yea definitely US and the West are keen on giving benefits to them by freezing their assests and by taking away the funds Hamas government received eh? Wow those sure are brilliant benefits!

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Frankly I have become quite sick of talking about peaceful resolution. Been trying it for 50 years and it doesn't work.

It has just dawned on me - when have you ever talked about a peaceful resolution? You have 19 posts my friend.

Other people have been talking of peace, you've been talking about mass murder.

So you can go to hell with your hatred.

"Islam - a religion of peace" and genocide, apparantely.

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Promising Palestinains that they would burn Israel to the ground? In which speech did you heard that from the Hamas leader before the elections or where did he state that in his manifesto can you please point that out to me?

One just needs to take a look at the charter of Hamas. Here's a few highlights:

The Covenant of the Islamic Resistance Movement (Hamas)

18 August 1988

Israel will exist and will continue to exist until Islam will obliterate it, just as it obliterated others before it."

"The Islamic Resistance Movement believes that the land of Palestine is an Islamic Waqf consecrated for future Moslem generations until Judgement Day. It, or any part of it, should not be squandered: it, or any part of it, should not be given up. "

"There is no solution for the Palestinian question except through Jihad. Initiatives, proposals and international conferences are all a waste of time and vain endeavors."

"After Palestine, the Zionists aspire to expand from the Nile to the Euphrates. When they will have digested the region they overtook, they will aspire to further expansion, and so on. Their plan is embodied in the "Protocols of the Elders of Zion", and their present conduct is the best proof of what we are saying."

"This is the law governing the land of Palestine in the Islamic Sharia (law) and the same goes for any land the Moslems have conquered by force, because during the times of (Islamic) conquests, the Moslems consecrated these lands to Moslem generations till the Day of Judgement."

....as such where is there room left for a peaceful two state solution?

.... Hamas will not renounce violence, not honor previous Palestinian agreements and with the most recent killing of their own proves they are no more than the anchor that continues to weigh down the Palestinian people

Fatah is only singing along with the US lines is because of the support they are getting via Israel. They know themselves that if they go against Israel then they would lose out US and Israel both and hence be in a same situation as Hamas so they would prefer to lick the shoes of Israel and US and live off what is thrown to them.

Yes, the all to often used technique of trying to shame those that work for a moderate solution. it's like dealing with a spoiled kid that cant have his way. nobody is asking for anybody to bend over. It's about negotiating a a peaceful solution and building trust

Benefit of Palestinian people? Oh yea definitely US and the West are keen on giving benefits to them by freezing their assests and by taking away the funds Hamas government received eh? Wow those sure are brilliant benefits!

People of the West Bank will benefit for their efforts to work toward peace and those in Gaza that are stuck being the spearhead for hamas and Iran will unfortunatly reap the products of violence and war. Either hamass will change, the people will change who they choose to support or it will continue to be a sad situation for some Palestinians

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One just needs to take a look at the charter of Hamas. Here's a few highlights:

The Covenant of the Islamic Resistance Movement (Hamas)

18 August 1988

Israel will exist and will continue to exist until Islam will obliterate it, just as it obliterated others before it."

"The Islamic Resistance Movement believes that the land of Palestine is an Islamic Waqf consecrated for future Moslem generations until Judgement Day. It, or any part of it, should not be squandered: it, or any part of it, should not be given up. "

"There is no solution for the Palestinian question except through Jihad. Initiatives, proposals and international conferences are all a waste of time and vain endeavors."

"After Palestine, the Zionists aspire to expand from the Nile to the Euphrates. When they will have digested the region they overtook, they will aspire to further expansion, and so on. Their plan is embodied in the "Protocols of the Elders of Zion", and their present conduct is the best proof of what we are saying."

"This is the law governing the land of Palestine in the Islamic Sharia (law) and the same goes for any land the Moslems have conquered by force, because during the times of (Islamic) conquests, the Moslems consecrated these lands to Moslem generations till the Day of Judgement."

....as such where is there room left for a peaceful two state solution?

Before talking about two peaceful states why should the Palestinian land be divided first into two states? Are you indirectly justifying the existence of Israel on occupied Palestinian lands if so then please tell me on what basis are you making that justification? So if tomorrow I come to your backyard and set up a camp and live there would my existence be justified?

.... Hamas will not renounce violence, not honor previous Palestinian agreements and with the most recent killing of their own proves they are no more than the anchor that continues to weigh down the Palestinian people

Has Israel honoured any of the previous agreements? Or carried out the previous UN resolutions? So if Hamas is rebelling against the agreements is not because its their wish more like its the only choice they have on occasions.

Yes, the all to often used technique of trying to shame those that work for a moderate solution. it's like dealing with a spoiled kid that cant have his way. nobody is asking for anybody to bend over. It's about negotiating a a peaceful solution and building trust

Negotiating a peaceful solution? So where was US and Israel when Hamas got elected democratically to negotiate a peaceful solution and build trust? Who was the spoiled kid then?

And as for you saying nobody is asking for anybody to bend over that is just false. Mahmood Abbas and his group of militants were supplied with arms while Hamas' assets were frozen and their funds taken off them. Those very arms that were allowed by the Israelis to get through were used to over throw the Hamas government. So please enlighten me why did Israelis allow this [the movement of the arms]? Why did Mahmood Abbas in return put a government in place which is Pro Israeli? Did he not bend over to help the Israelis and in return the Israelis bend over and supplied the arms?

People of the West Bank will benefit for their efforts to work toward peace and those in Gaza that are stuck being the spearhead for hamas and Iran will unfortunatly reap the products of violence and war. Either hamass will change, the people will change who they choose to support or it will continue to be a sad situation for some Palestinians

Some people would prefer to lives as slaves and be treated as slaves while others prefer to live as free men with their independence. That is what will happen in West Bank and Gaza given the current situation. People of West Bank will always have to bend over on the demands of Israeli counterparts while Gaza will stay firm continue to fight for their land.

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Before talking about two peaceful states why should the Palestinian land be divided first into two states? Are you indirectly justifying the existence of Israel on occupied Palestinian lands if so then please tell me on what basis are you making that justification? So if tomorrow I come to your backyard and set up a camp and live there would my existence be justified?

No, i'm not going back to 1948, 100 yrs ago or 1000 years ago. I'm talking about today and now. If peace is not wanted, then don't turn around and whine about the evils of war. I might add, you may want to grab a one way to Gaza before you and Hamas condemn Palestinians to another generation of suffering.

..as far as you in my backyard, sure. I live in a country of immigrants. Native American lineage is far and few between. As a product of both, I try to respect those born here and admire those that takevthe leap of faith to come here for a better life.

Has Israel honoured any of the previous agreements? Or carried out the previous UN resolutions? So if Hamas is rebelling against the agreements is not because its their wish more like its the only choice they have on occasions.

Negotiating a peaceful solution? So where was US and Israel when Hamas got elected democratically to negotiate a peaceful solution and build trust? Who was the spoiled kid then?

I agree Israel has made its share of mistakes, but again we live in the present and control the future. Hamas was given the option of renouncing violence and recognizing israel.

Instead they choose all or nothing, no negotiations (except concerning hostages of course).

.. are you trying to tell me that Hamas ran on a platform that they were the best to bring a peaceful solution with isreal? not funny,but laughable

And as for you saying nobody is asking for anybody to bend over that is just false. Mahmood Abbas and his group of militants were supplied with arms while Hamas' assets were frozen and their funds taken off them. Those very arms that were allowed by the Israelis to get through were used to over throw the Hamas government. So please enlighten me why did Israelis allow this [the movement of the arms]? Why did Mahmood Abbas in return put a government in place which is Pro Israeli? Did he not bend over to help the Israelis and in return the Israelis bend over and supplied the arms?

Some people would prefer to lives as slaves and be treated as slaves while others prefer to live as free men with their independence. That is what will happen in West Bank and Gaza given the current situation. People of West Bank will always have to bend over on the demands of Israeli counterparts while Gaza will stay firm continue to fight for their land.

bend yes,bend over no. Its called compromise. isreal and the west is helping Abbas because he appears to be honestly trying to work towards ending violence and a peaceful 2 state solution.

hamas on the other hand recieves their handouts from iran and is proving to be just another puppy for the iranian regime at the expense of their people. Sadly resembling the many lebanese that died as a result of hezzie's attack last summer

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No, i'm not going back to 1948, 100 yrs ago or 1000 years ago. I'm talking about today and now. If peace is not wanted, then don't turn around and whine about the evils of war. I might add, you may want to grab a one way to Gaza before you and Hamas condemn Palestinians to another generation of suffering.

..as far as you in my backyard, sure. I live in a country of immigrants. Native American lineage is far and few between. As a product of both, I try to respect those born here and admire those that takevthe leap of faith to come here for a better life.

To talk about today and now one has to look what ticked this conflict off. If you are saying just forget what has happened in the past and move on then you have just angered hundreds of Palestinians who had their homes destroyed for no reason what so ever.

If you wanna talk about peace is not wanted then you need to re read my posts again. Peace for Palestinians would mean that all the land taken from them is given back to them, all the families who have suffered destroyed houses, martyred relatives compensated and then only they will agree for peace. Do you expect them to forget everything the Israelis did for the last 50 years and shake hands and play happy families? Lets be realistic here if I oppress you for 50 years, take away your land, your property, capture your relatives for no apparent reason would you be willing to move on in a blink of an eye without asking for compensation or those possessions back? I think not you would at the least ask for what is important to you and that would be many things given the period we are relating to.

I agree Israel has made its share of mistakes, but again we live in the present and control the future. Hamas was given the option of renouncing violence and recognizing israel.

Instead they choose all or nothing, no negotiations (except concerning hostages of course).

.. are you trying to tell me that Hamas ran on a platform that they were the best to bring a peaceful solution with isreal? not funny,but laughable

Again you expect Hamas to forget the last 50 years and play happy families. If that is not bending over then what is it? Hamas will only recognize Israel if Israel returns the captured ones from their prisons, pays compensation for the amount of land destroyed by them. On one hand you expect Hamas to renounce violence but on the other hand you are not condemning Israel for their acts where they are destroying the houses of Palestinian people who are innocent civilians and not members of Hamas or Fatah. Sorry to say that is double standards!

If Israel wants to implement the two state solution then it is simple release the captured ones, give compensation to the families, provide material for rebuilding houses that were destroyed without any justification and then see how Palestinians themselves would push for a peaceful treaty too. At this rate you expect Palestinians to give up everything just to have peace but what is the guarantee that Israel would do the same? What is the guarantee that Israel would in return fulfil their promises?

bend yes,bend over no. Its called compromise. isreal and the west is helping Abbas because he appears to be honestly trying to work towards ending violence and a peaceful 2 state solution.

hamas on the other hand recieves their handouts from iran and is proving to be just another puppy for the iranian regime at the expense of their people. Sadly resembling the many lebanese that died as a result of hezzie's attack last summer

Compromise? You kidding me right?! If Israel and West were really helping Abbas because he is honestly working to stop violence and bring peace then where is the notion from Abbas to have the Palestinians released from the Israeli prisons? Where is the conditions from Abbas to bring peace to the people of Palestine by ensuring their safety? Abbas and his militants are just living off what Israel and West throws at them, they are afraid to make demands. They know themselves that living off the pieces thrown at them is better rather than making demands for a good life. If they were really seeking a compromise then it would be two way benefits ie Israelis and Palestinians both benefits but so far the only people that are benefitting are Israelis.

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"Palestine" is no more occupied by Israelis than "Persia" is occupied by Iranians. When the time came to separate two peoples who seemed to be at each other's throats -- and primarily Palestinians attacking Jews who'd lived in what is now Israel for millenia -- some Arabs believed that other Arab states were going to wipe the Jews out.

So they fled what is now Israel.

After the 1948 wars was over, and the Arab states lost, those Arabs who had lived in the land, and were hostile to the Jews who also lived there, wanted to return.

So they could cause trouble.

Instead, countless Arabs who lived there before the 1948 war, stayed where they lived and benefitted from the creation of the State of Israel. The only people who have a claim to Israeli soil are those who supported her from 1948 until today. The ones who opposed a peaceful settlement in 1948 still oppose a peaceful settlement.

There are "Palestinians" living in Israel today -- except they are called "Arab Israelis". I believe it's well over a million, and I'm not sure of the numbers, but I suspect more "Palestinians" live peacefully inside Israel, than unpeacefully outside. Hamas is waging war on Palestinians in the Gaza Strip, not the IDF. You want the bloodshed to stop? Explain to Hamas that brother killing brother is a bad idea.

Israel is the only country I can spot from satellite photos. The borders between Israel and its neighbors are very plain. The war against Israel has nothing to do with the land, it has everything to do with this insane belief that if "Palestine" takes over the land, it will maintain its fertility. Up until Jews moved onto the land it was relatively barren. Photographs from the early 20th century bear that out. Jews have had a relationship with that piece of land for 4,000 years.

Burning Israel to the ground won't help anyone, but the political leadership of the countries that surround Israel who are too corrupt to do anything for their own people. Do you think the Saudi royalty will suddenly become concerned about the Saudi working class? Will Sunnis and Shi'a in Iraq stop killing each other? Or killing Kurds? Will Hezbollah in Lebanon stop waging wars? Will Syria stop its meddling? No. Destroying Israel will make more room for more interfaction violence in the Middle East. Once the great excuse of destroying Israel is gotten rid of, how much more sectarian violence do you think is going to happen?

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