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Hadiths Of Twelve Imams In Books Prior To The Ghayba

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I posted this below in another thread, but I thought it should go in it's own thread, as it is important for brothers and sisters to understand this topic.

It is a common objection against the belief in the twelve holy Imams that there were no hadiths recorded prior to the ghayba of the twelfth mentioning that there were going to in fact be twelve Imams. This train of thought has the idea that the many hadiths we find in books regarding their number are later inventions after the fact to explain the situation.

Many Shias are aware of the hadiths in the Sunni books such as that of the twelve amirs. Some will also mention the book Misbah as-Shari`ah. However, what I've not seen mentioned here is mention of the 'usool' works. That is, the early hadith works written by people contemporaneous with the Imams, often numbered at having been 400 (though there may have been more). These sources then became material we find collected and organized by such scholars as Shaykh Kulayni and Shaykh Saduq. One such 'asl' is the one from Abi Sa`eed `Ibad al-`Usfuri ibn Ya`qoob ar-Rawaajani who died in the year 250 A.H.:

http://www.rafed.net/books/hadith/usul-16/02.html#2

Here's some of the hadith from this brief text:

ÚÈÇÏ Úä ÚãÑæ Úä ÇÈì ÍãÒå ÞÇá ÓãÚÊ Úáì Èä ÇáÍÓíä (Ú) íÞæá Çä Çááå ÎáÞ ãÍãÏÇ æÚáíÇ æÇÍÏ ÚÔÑ ãä æáÏå ãä äæÑ ÚÙãÊå ÝÇÞÇãåã ÇÔÈÇÍÇ Ýí ÖíÇÁ äæÑå íÚÈÏæäå ÞÈá ÎáÞ ÇáÎáÞ íÓÈÍæä Çááå æíÞÏÓæäå æåã ÇáÇÆãÉ ãä æáÏ ÑÓæá Çááå

ÚÈÇÏ ÑÝÚå Åáì ÇÈì ÌÚÝÑ (Ú) ÞÇá ÞÇá ÑÓæá Çááå (Õ) ãä æáÏí ÇÍÏ ÚÔÑ äÞíÈÇ äÌíÈÇ ( äÞÈÇÁ äÌÈÇÁ Î Ï ) ãÍÏËæä ãÝåãæä ÇÎÑåã ÇáÞÇÆã ÈÇáÍÞ íãáÇÁåÇ ( ÇáÇÑÖ Î Ï ) ÚÏáÇ ßãÇ ãáÆÊ ÌæÑÇ

( 16 )

ÚÈÇÏ Úä ÚãÑæ Èä ËÇÈÊ Úä ÇÈí ÌÚÝÑ Úä ÇÈíå Úä ÇÈÇÆå ÞÇá ÞÇá ÑÓæá Çááå Õáì Çááå Úáíå æÚáíåã äÌæã Ýí ÇáÓãÇÁ ÇãÇä áÇåá ÇáÓãÇÁ ÝÅÐÇ ÐåÈ äÌæã ÇáÓãÇÁ ÇÊì Çåá ÇáÓãÇÁ ãÇ íßÑåæä æäÌæã ãä Çåá ÈíÊí ãä æáÏí ÇÍÏ ÚÔÑ äÌãÇ ÇãÇä Ýí ÇáÇÑÖ áÇåá ÇáÇÑÖ Çä ÊãíÏ ÈÇåáåÇ ÝÅÐÇ ÐåÈÊ äÌæã Çåá ÈíÊí ãä ÇáÇÑÖ ÇÊì Çåá ÇáÇÑÖ ãÇ íßÑåæä

Translations:

`Ibad from `Umar from Abi Hamza who said: I heard `Ali ibn al-Husayn (as) saying: "Indeed, Allah created Muhammad, ‘Ali, and eleven from his sons from the Light of His Glory. He made them shadows in the radiance of His Light, worshiping Him and Glorifying Him and Sanctifying Him before the Creation of Creation. And these were the Imams from the progeny of the Prophet of Allah."

`Ibad he raised up to Abi Ja`far (as) who said: The Messenger of Allah (pbuh) said: From my sons eleven naqeebs, najeebs, muhadaths, mufahhams, the last of them is the Qa'im b'il-Haqq, he will fill the earth with justice as it had been filled with oppression.

`Ibad from `Umar ibn Thaabit from Abi Ja`far from his father from his fathers, he said: The Messenger of Allah (pbuh) said: "The stars in the heavens are what secure the people of the heavens; if the stars were destroyed, the people of the heavens would have to face that which they hate [i.e. apparently destruction]. And the stars from the people of my house, those Noble ones from my eleven children, they are what secure the people of the Earth, and keep it from shaking with its inhabitants. If the stars from the people of my family were destroyed, the people of the earth would have to face that which they hate."

These hadiths from a work _prior_ to the ghayba clearly demonstrate the existence of the belief in there being twelve Imams, and as having been taught by the Imams themselves.

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persianseyed Newbie

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in general this is a retarded objection. Its like saying "because Sunni hadiths were compiled in large volumes years after the Prophet passed away, there are no evidences of massive parts of the Sunnah being in existence prior to the compilation of these works" Whoever comes up with objections such as these needs to reevaluate their own hadith history. ALL hadith books are based on earlier works. these anti shias, assume that every one our ulama lied or something naudhibillah. But they cannot prove the reliability of Imam Bukhari, unless they resort to the words of their own scholars of Rijaal. Same as us with Shaykh Kulayni, Shaykh Saduq etc.... why the double standard?

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Aquib Rizvi Newbie

Aquib Rizvi

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Have seen similar hadith in Kamal al-Deen :)

I hope you mean this , It is Saheeh Inshallah!!

6 - حدثنا محمدبن على ما جيلويه، ومحمدبن موسى بن المتوكل رضي الله عنهما قالا: حدثنا محمدبن يحيى العطار، عن محمدبن الحسن الصفار، عن أبي طالب عبدالله ابن الصلت القمي، عن عثمان بن عيسى، عن سماعة بن مهران قال: كنت أنا وأبو بصير ومحمدبن عمران مولى أبي جعفر عليه السلام في منزل بمكة، فقال محمدبن عمران: سمعت أبا عبدالله عليه السلا م يقول: نحن اثنا عشر مهديا(3) فقال له أبوبصير: تالله لقد سمعت ذلك من أبي عبدالله عليه السلام؟ فحلف مرة أو مرتين أنه سمع ذلك منه.

فقال أبوبصير: لكني سمعته من أبي جعفر عليه السلام.

وحدثنا بمثل هذا الحديث محمدبن الحديث بن أحمد بن الوليد رضي الله عنه قال: حدثنا محمد بن الحسن الصفار، عن أبي طالب عبدالله بن الصلت القمي، عن عثمان بن - عيسى، عن سماعة بن مهران مثله سواء.

6 - Narrated to us Muhammad bin Ali Majilaway and Muhammad bin Musa bin Mutawakkil - May Allah be pleased with them - they said: Narrated to us Muhammad bin Yahya al-Attar from Muhammad bin Hasan as-Saffar from Abi Talib Abdullah Ibne Salt Qummi from Uthman bin Isa from Sama-a bin Mehran that he said:

“I, Abu Baseer and Muhammad bin Imran, slave of Abu Ja’far (a.s.) were in a house in Mecca. Muhammad bin Imran said: I heard Abi Abdullah (a.s.) say: We are the Twelve Mahdis. Abu Baseer asked: Did you really hear this from Abi Abdullah (a.s.)? He swore once or twice that he had heard it from him. Abu Baseer said: But I have heard it from Abu Ja’far (a.s.).”

A similar tradition is narrated to us by Muhammad bin Hasan bin Ahmad bin Walid (r.a.) that he said: Narrated to us Muhammad bin Hasan as-Saffar from Abi Talib Abdullah bin Salt al-Qummi from Uthman bin Isa from Samaa-a bin Mehran.

Source: KamaaludDin by Sheikh Sadooq,Vol 2,Ch 33,H 6

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Rasul Newbie

Rasul

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I hope you mean this , It is Saheeh Inshallah!!

6 - حدثنا محمدبن على ما جيلويه، ومحمدبن موسى بن المتوكل رضي الله عنهما قالا: حدثنا محمدبن يحيى العطار، عن محمدبن الحسن الصفار، عن أبي طالب عبدالله ابن الصلت القمي، عن عثمان بن عيسى، عن سماعة بن مهران قال: كنت أنا وأبو بصير ومحمدبن عمران مولى أبي جعفر عليه السلام في منزل بمكة، فقال محمدبن عمران: سمعت أبا عبدالله عليه السلا م يقول: نحن اثنا عشر مهديا(3) فقال له أبوبصير: تالله لقد سمعت ذلك من أبي عبدالله عليه السلام؟ فحلف مرة أو مرتين أنه سمع ذلك منه.

فقال أبوبصير: لكني سمعته من أبي جعفر عليه السلام.

وحدثنا بمثل هذا الحديث محمدبن الحديث بن أحمد بن الوليد رضي الله عنه قال: حدثنا محمد بن الحسن الصفار، عن أبي طالب عبدالله بن الصلت القمي، عن عثمان بن - عيسى، عن سماعة بن مهران مثله سواء.

6 - Narrated to us Muhammad bin Ali Majilaway and Muhammad bin Musa bin Mutawakkil - May Allah be pleased with them - they said: Narrated to us Muhammad bin Yahya al-Attar from Muhammad bin Hasan as-Saffar from Abi Talib Abdullah Ibne Salt Qummi from Uthman bin Isa from Sama-a bin Mehran that he said:

“I, Abu Baseer and Muhammad bin Imran, slave of Abu Ja’far (a.s.) were in a house in Mecca. Muhammad bin Imran said: I heard Abi Abdullah (a.s.) say: We are the Twelve Mahdis. Abu Baseer asked: Did you really hear this from Abi Abdullah (a.s.)? He swore once or twice that he had heard it from him. Abu Baseer said: But I have heard it from Abu Ja’far (a.s.).”

A similar tradition is narrated to us by Muhammad bin Hasan bin Ahmad bin Walid (r.a.) that he said: Narrated to us Muhammad bin Hasan as-Saffar from Abi Talib Abdullah bin Salt al-Qummi from Uthman bin Isa from Samaa-a bin Mehran.

Source: KamaaludDin by Sheikh Sadooq,Vol 2,Ch 33,H 6

Salam,

This also, but there is one in beginning of book (long hadith) similar to this :)

عباد عن عمرو عن ابى حمزه قال سمعت على بن الحسين (ع) يقول ان الله خلق محمدا وعليا واحد عشر من ولده من نور عظمته فاقامهم اشباحا في ضياء نوره يعبدونه قبل خلق الخلق يسبحون الله ويقدسونه وهم الائمة من ولد رسول الله

`Ibad from `Umar from Abi Hamza who said: I heard `Ali ibn al-Husayn saying: "Indeed, Allah created Muhammad, ‘Ali, and eleven from his sons from the Light of His Glory. He made them shadows in the radiance of His Light, worshiping Him and Glorifying Him and Sanctifying Him before the Creation of Creation. And these were the Imams from the progeny of the Prophet of Allah."

Beautiful Hadith :wub:

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Islamic Salvation Newbie

Islamic Salvation

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I hope you mean this , It is Saheeh Inshallah!!

6 - حدثنا محمدبن على ما جيلويه، ومحمدبن موسى بن المتوكل رضي الله عنهما قالا: حدثنا محمدبن يحيى العطار، عن محمدبن الحسن الصفار، عن أبي طالب عبدالله ابن الصلت القمي، عن عثمان بن عيسى، عن سماعة بن مهران قال: كنت أنا وأبو بصير ومحمدبن عمران مولى أبي جعفر عليه السلام في منزل بمكة، فقال محمدبن عمران: سمعت أبا عبدالله عليه السلا م يقول: نحن اثنا عشر مهديا(3) فقال له أبوبصير: تالله لقد سمعت ذلك من أبي عبدالله عليه السلام؟ فحلف مرة أو مرتين أنه سمع ذلك منه.

فقال أبوبصير: لكني سمعته من أبي جعفر عليه السلام.

وحدثنا بمثل هذا الحديث محمد بن أحمد بن الوليد رضي الله عنه قال: حدثنا محمد بن الحسن الصفار، عن أبي طالب عبدالله بن الصلت القمي، عن عثمان بن - عيسى، عن سماعة بن مهران مثله سواء.

6 - Narrated to us Muhammad bin Ali Majilaway and Muhammad bin Musa bin Mutawakkil - May Allah be pleased with them - they said: Narrated to us Muhammad bin Yahya al-Attar from Muhammad bin Hasan as-Saffar from Abi Talib Abdullah Ibne Salt Qummi from Uthman bin Isa from Sama-a bin Mehran that he said:

“I, Abu Baseer and Muhammad bin Imran, slave of Abu Ja’far (a.s.) were in a house in Mecca. Muhammad bin Imran said: I heard Abi Abdullah (a.s.) say: We are the Twelve Mahdis. Abu Baseer asked: Did you really hear this from Abi Abdullah (a.s.)? He swore once or twice that he had heard it from him. Abu Baseer said: But I have heard it from Abu Ja’far (a.s.).”

A similar tradition is narrated to us by Muhammad bin Hasan bin Ahmad bin Walid (r.a.) that he said: Narrated to us Muhammad bin Hasan as-Saffar from Abi Talib Abdullah bin Salt al-Qummi from Uthman bin Isa from Samaa-a bin Mehran.

Source: KamaaludDin by Sheikh Sadooq,Vol 2,Ch 33,H 6

Indeed it is Mu'tabar due to Uthman and Sam'ah who were from the Waqifah (I wonder how they could stop at 7 whilst still narrating this Hadith).

al-Kulayni narrates it in al-Kafi

محمد بن يعقوب، عن محمد بن يحيى وأحمد بن محمد، عن محمد ابن الحسين، عن أبي طالب، عن عثمان بن عيسى، عن سماعة بن مهران، قال: كنت أنا وأبو بصير ومحمد بن عمران مولى أبي جعفر عليه السلام في منزله بمكة،

فقال محمد بن عمران: سمعت أبا عبد الله عليه السلام يقول: نحن اثنا عشر محدثا، فقال له أبو بصير سمعت من أبي عبد الله عليه السلام؟ فحلفه مرة أو مرتين أنه سمعه، فقال أبو بصير: لكني سمعته من أبي جعفر عليه السلام

الكافي: الجزء 1، كتاب الحجة 4، باب ما جاء في الاثني عشر والنص عليهم عليهم السلام 126، الحديث 20

Muhammad bin Yaqub from Muhammad bin Yahya and Ahmad bin Muhammad from Muhammad bin al-Husayn from Abi Talib (Abdallah bin as-Salt) from Uthman bin Isa from Sam'ah bin Mihran who said: I, Abu Basir and Muhammad bin Imran - the client of Abu Ja'far عليه السلام were at his (Muhammad's) house in Makkah, so Muhammad bin Imran said: I heard Aba Abdillah عليه السلام saying: we are twelve Muhadaths, so Abu Basir said to him: did you hear it from Aba Abdillah عليه السلام? so he made him swear once or twice that he heard him (Aba Abdillah عليه السلام) saying it, then Abu Basir said: but I had heard it from Abi Ja'far عليه السلام (Muwathaq)

Edited by Islamic Salvation
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pyaro Newbie

pyaro

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Indeed it is Mu'tabar due to Uthman and Sam'ah who were from the Waqifah (I wonder how they could stop at 7 whilst still narrating this Hadith).

al-Kulayni narrates it in al-Kafi

محمد بن يعقوب، عن محمد بن يحيى وأحمد بن محمد، عن محمد ابن الحسين، عن أبي طالب، عن عثمان بن عيسى، عن سماعة بن مهران، قال: كنت أنا وأبو بصير ومحمد بن عمران مولى أبي جعفر عليه السلام في منزله بمكة،

فقال محمد بن عمران: سمعت أبا عبد الله عليه السلام يقول: نحن اثنا عشر محدثا، فقال له أبو بصير سمعت من أبي عبد الله عليه السلام؟ فحلفه مرة أو مرتين أنه سمعه، فقال أبو بصير: لكني سمعته من أبي جعفر عليه السلام

الكافي: الجزء 1، كتاب الحجة 4، باب ما جاء في الاثني عشر والنص عليهم عليهم السلام 126، الحديث 20

Muhammad bin Yaqub from Muhammad bin Yahya and Ahmad bin Muhammad from Muhammad bin al-Husayn from Abi Talib (Abdallah bin as-Salt) from Uthman bin Isa from Sam'ah bin Mihran who said: I, Abu Basir and Muhammad bin Imran - the client of Abu Ja'far عليه السلام were at his (Muhammad's) house in Makkah, so Muhammad bin Imran said: I heard Aba Abdillah عليه السلام saying: we are twelve Muhadaths, so Abu Basir said to him: did you hear it from Aba Abdillah عليه السلام? so he made him swear once or twice that he heard him (Aba Abdillah عليه السلام) saying it, then Abu Basir said: but I had heard it from Abi Ja'far عليه السلام (Muwathaq)

Salaam Alaykum,

Thank you for the addition.

btw bro hope you will continue with your mutabaralkafi blog.

I just cannot stress how beneficial your blog is

Wassalaam

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