Men's Past = Experience:woman's Past=bad Past

[karbalah]

(salam)

lets say you meet, you fall in love then

men=you discover she had a past and no longer " virgin"....let's say she deeply repented. and now is truly pure.

would you marry her?

ladies=and I know what80% of you will say rare is the one that will say I'd rather have a virgin male.

still would you marry a man with a "past"/( should there exist one that does not have one!)?

men's past is considered experience

women's is considered a mistake.

Edited July 10, 2007 by karbalah

[Bonafide Hustler]

id marry her why not

[alimohamad40]

men's past is considered experience

women's is considered a mistake.

wether man or woman if that past experience was fornication then its Evil and is not an advantage and nothing to be proud of and it should put that person as a second preference if there is one who didnt do that

but a man who allways getts married is good, because if he intentionally stays "vergin" it means he is most likely either gay or something unhealthy

Just listen how gay this statement sounds:

I am a 35 year old who intentionally stayed VERGIN

(Mate your a priest mate)

Unfotunatly most girls prefer these priest-style pure-singles who claim they never married before , These girls will almost guarantee that they will end up with one or a combination of the following:

1) a gay who doesnt like women

2) a fornicator who doesnt marry but fornicates

3) a liar who was married but hides it and made it secret

4) An unhealthy person who has no desire and will not be able to give her her right

The good men who folow the prophets advise and imitate the lifestyle of the Infalibles and the prophets and allways try to get married or actually get married (like me lol) are hated and isolated and demonized and labelled womanizers and regarded as plaayers or whatever

So the good men are allways filtered out and eliminated at the start by most women

My ex-wife left me becausse i supported the islamic system of marriage and specificly polygamy and she went with a 30 plus year old man who says " he has never been married before"

from 15 to 30 is 15 years

I allways said " if a man is 30 years old and never tried to get married then there is some thing wrong and most likely the person is very sinful"

he said my claims are weird

the first time i got married i was 18 and it was way too late for me

Edited July 17, 2007 by alimohamad40

[*TAIBA*]

No i wouldnt marry a guy with a deep past, it just seems like too much trouble. i dont consider to have adeep past so i wouldnt like my partner to have one, so togeather we could create a deep past and togeather we could live each day and togeather build for the future :o)

[postmaster1923]

If a man or woman has sinned, it is a mistake. I do not consider there to be a difference between men and women in this respect.

But I would marry a person who has repented of his mistakes.

[alimohamad40]

(salam)

No i wouldnt marry a guy with a deep past, it just seems like too much trouble. i dont consider to have adeep past so i wouldnt like my partner to have one, so togeather we could create a deep past and togeather we could live each day and togeather build for the future ohmy.gif)

see this is what i am talking about , now how old are you TAIBA?

lets assume your 25 and you want a 30 year old husband

you don't want one who has had a deep past (meaning you don't want one who was ever married)

Lets not talk about your discrimination against the Divorced and the one who has done mut3a or the one who wants you as a second wife and just concentrate on your anti-marriage condition that you have put inplace.

Already by this anti-Islamic condition you have eliminated all the good men out there and guaranteed yourself a bad one.

No Normal man at the age of 30 and never tried to get married is a good man unless he has a health problem and you don't want that either

A man who intentionally refrains from marriage is like a priest and a man who feels the need for marriage but never tries is leaving a compulsory action and a man who doesn't feel the need by the age of 30 has a serious health or orientation problem.

Thats the problem with today's women they have no brain and they live in a complete denial of the reality. They are always looking for that 60 year old virgin Boy.

I don't know what they love about that gayish stereotype?

maybe its the prophecy of the prophet when he said: "in the final days the women will act like men and the men will act like women"

So todays Women like a man who acts gay and vice versa is true

Any man (at an old age) who tells you that he has never tried to get married is at least one or a combination of the following:

1) Unhealthy and sick

2) Healthy but Imposing Celibacy (like the priests) which is a haraam act

3) Gay and doesn't like females so he doesn't try to marry

4) lying to you and he did get married but hides it

5) Is full of sin and doesn't care about marriage but he sins all the time

Edited July 17, 2007 by alimohamad40

[alimohamad40]

(salam)

If a man or woman has sinned, it is a mistake. I do not consider there to be a difference between men and women in this respect.

You see smiley the O.P didn't make any mention of haraam or hallal

It seems like thats a secondary issue or probably a nonexistent one!!!!!

And what difference does it make when some one fornicated whether he was a man or woman? Dont they both get the same Punishment under islam ?

but the idea here is to fight marriage and create a culture that boycotts those who had deep relationship and encourage men to never get married and just wait for their

one queen,

the one god,

the one wife

And do not commit shirk with your god , do not associate another god with your wife

yes its a time where the Idea of the one god is replaced with the idea of the ONE WIFE

The age of worshiping the female,

i hope wise males and females get back to their senses and stand strong with their religion in order to save both genders from suffering

Edited July 10, 2007 by alimohamad40

[seyedmusawi]

LOL

[Dynamite]

If a man or woman has sinned, it is a mistake. I do not consider there to be a difference between men and women in this respect.

But I would marry a person who has repented of his mistakes.

Ditto, Tritto and Quadritto . . .

[karbalah]

id marry her why not

you cool dude,,,al 30th century :)

and you do not care who touched her before ,,,or loed her as long as she repented ,,,:)

No i wouldnt marry a guy with a deep past, it just seems like too much trouble. i dont consider to have adeep past so i wouldnt like my partner to have one, so togeather we could create a deep past and togeather we could live each day and togeather build for the future :o)

deep past ,,zani,,,has commited the act of zina,,,most guys now are rare to stay virgins,,but the idea is most guys serach our past ,,,and theyhave one,,hard to fine a pure one!!

did you findone?

If a man or woman has sinned, it is a mistake. I do not consider there to be a difference between men and women in this respect.

But I would marry a person who has repented of his mistakes.

dear smiley ,,,,eaiser said than done,,,I hope all partiesthough like you do ,,,but still if a guy knows that hsi wife is not a virgin he might have an insy titsy bitsy though of the other guy who held her ,,

maybe he will not care!

I guess it all comes to our culture ,,society,,family

guys ,,the more girls around him,,the more hearts he broke,,the more appealing

women,,if they had one relationship,,,deep love ,,crazy out of the world,,love,,then it ends after 3 or 4 yrs,,

it's a past .

Allah sawt guide us all

I guess you can forget and let go,,life is easy

but how easy are you ?

[Dynamite]

I guess it all comes to our culture ,,society,,family

guys ,,the more girls around him,,the more hearts he broke,,the more appealing

women,,if they had one relationship,,,deep love ,,crazy out of the world,,love,,then it ends after 3 or 4 yrs,,

. . . and they used to teach us in school that ours is the age of optimism

[Guest Peace]

in this world women should realise its very often one rule for them and another for men. Because men tend to wield the power, as rulers, fathers, husbands, judges etc women are treated unjustly in respect to men.

[Maryaam]

(salam)

I would marry someone with a past.

Having loved someone assures me that he is capable of loving, he probably learned many things about women and their emotional and physical needs, and is more likely to choose his wife more wisely, as he knows himself and his own needs better.

[Zahra_Islam]

(salam)

For every man who has a deep past, there is a women who shared it with him. If the deep past has come from a marriage, then this is halal, and theres no reason why anyone should discriminate. I am a revert, and before I married my Muslim husband, I was married 7 years before to a Christian...so I have a "deep past". If my husband discriminated against me, then I would be single...for what? I revert to Islam, and just because I was married before Islam, I am not marriageable material??? I'm so glad my husband, and others like him don't have that mentality.

I would marry someone with a "deep past".

[alimohamad40]

^

thats what i mean sister Descriminating againt some one for simply doing his/her religious obligation has become a culture today

[*TAIBA*]

ok.. like i aint discriminating anybody, this question that was asked, i simply put it into my own context, im 20 i consider that young, so i really would like to marry someone without a "deep" past, whats wrong with that? say i was 25 or 30 i would consider someone with a past, coz i prob have a past of my own

[Mommin]

in this world women should realise its very often one rule for them and another for men. Because men tend to wield the power, as rulers, fathers, husbands, judges etc women are treated unjustly in respect to men.

(salam)

Well, thats true. But many families will not agree to their daughters getting married to someone who was married before unless they are in need somehow so it is not so easy for men.

Ws

[alimohamad40]

(salam)

TAIBA

if your 20 and you want a 25 year old husband who never tried to get married then let me congratulate you that you will get a bad person

unless your 13 and he is 15 it will be ok

any man over 18 and doesnt try to get married there is some thing wrong

either health problem of orintation problem

Edited July 12, 2007 by alimohamad40

[Guest Peace]

^ salam - ayatollah Khomeini got married at around 27. The Prophet (saw) at 25. Want to review your statement?

[alimohamad40]

^

(salam)

i am 25 and i am not married yet eventhough i married many times before, first time at 18

and yes there is some thing wrong with me definatly!!! and i chalenge any man at this situation to be safe unless he is in the level of the prophets

and my statement is accurate i said

" if he intentionally doesnt try to get married"

Some times life dictates things to you but it doesn't mean its your fault, cases like serving jail sentences or being boycotted by people and isolated from the society like most prophets were are imposed by the reality upon the human.

but the promotion of the intentional choice to stay single up to this age is what i am challenging

Edited July 17, 2007 by alimohamad40

[postmaster1923]

^Brother alimohamad40, you need to keep in mind that not all people are the same as you. less libido or delayed development of libido doesn't necessarily mean something is wrong with him, and he may find a perfectly suitable wife at a later age. I am a woman, and I assure you, I had absolutely no interest in men (or boys) until I was at least 16 years old, probably older, and there is nothing wrong with my orientation or current level of interest. (And I was raised in a society in which all my friends were dating when I was a teen.) If women mature sooner than men, doesn't it seem reasonable that some men might also not be interested in marriage until they are nearly or exceeding 18? I agree with you that all Muslims who desire it should actively seek marriage, but having not been in the shoes of every person, I can't judge their intentions or desire.

[peaceonearth]

sorry i like to start fresh

[*TAIBA*]

"TAIBA

if your 20 and you want a 25 year old husband who never tried to get married then let me congratulate you that you will get a bad person

unless your 13 and he is 15 it will be ok

any man over 18 and doesnt try to get married there is some thing wrong

either health problem of orintation problem"

i personally do not agree with your statements i think theyre somewhat strange

so your telling me if i marry a guy whos 25+ then i'll be with a bad person? - i dont think so,

what proof is it that you have to make such statement

and what do you mean "try to get married" ? you dont make much sense to me, is anyone else struggling to see what this guys talkin about :unsure:

[postmaster1923]

^Don't worry, sis, you'll get used to him. It seems he's marriage obsessed.

[Adam++]

(salam)

Everyone makes mistakes.

If she can give me her trust and word, I would consider it.

[karbalah]

. . . and they used to teach us in school that ours is the age of optimism

ha,,,,with all the great rulers we have !!!!

yup I am very optimistic,,,,extremely ,,,:(

(salam)

I would marry someone with a past.

Having loved someone assures me that he is capable of loving, he probably learned many things about women and their emotional and physical needs, and is more likely to choose his wife more wisely, as he knows himself and his own needs better.

the story is would he marry you if he knew you had an equal past ,,, like you accepted his past !!

^Brother alimohamad40, you need to keep in mind that not all people are the same as you. less libido or delayed development of libido doesn't necessarily mean something is wrong with him, and he may find a perfectly suitable wife at a later age. I am a woman, and I assure you, I had absolutely no interest in men (or boys) until I was at least 16 years old, probably older, and there is nothing wrong with my orientation or current level of interest. (And I was raised in a society in which all my friends were dating when I was a teen.) If women mature sooner than men, doesn't it seem reasonable that some men might also not be interested in marriage until they are nearly or exceeding 18? I agree with you that all Muslims who desire it should actively seek marriage, but having not been in the shoes of every person, I can't judge their intentions or desire.

speaking of libido and men,,,,

i guess thats whats diff btwn men in west and men in east

i walk down the street in most arab countires,,and get hit on at least every 10 minutes.

nothing with looks,,but ( being presentable doed not hurt)

in here ,,,I see girls with tight short ,,realy short shorts ,,and strapless tops,,,and NOO ONE LOOKS AT EM ..Or bothers me

brothers here ,,their hormones are full and satisfied,,in general

bro back home do not get much or when they do its under cover.

still ,,,they have fun there and here.= fun guys

if I girl has fun ,,,=bad girl !!!

[alimohamad40]

(salam)

It looks like am being misunderstood as usual :unsure:

Sister TAIBA this is what i mean:

You are 20 , you will be looking at guys at the ages ranging between 25 to 30 (for instance) .

Average Guys reach Boloogh at around 15 ( i did earlier)

From 15 years to 30 year are many long years..... During this time the man has already got currupted if he didnt get married (unless he is as good as prophets)

1) If he intentioanlly didnt get married then definatly he is currupted (thats what your promoting)

2) If life dictated that he doesnt get married then again he has a high chance of getting currupted too but he is trying his best and he cant do anything about it so god might forgive him

3) The scenario of the low libido is very rare and if its true it also has negative aspects eventhough religiously that man is not doing a crime

the summury being:

Your condition of prefering Unmarried man at this age is a bad condition

Its equivilant to promoting single life for men all the way up to this old age because your boycotting the others (the ones who folowed their religious duty and got married or tried to do so in the normal time) , your condition is eliminating them

An unmarried man at this old age is more likly to be currupted specially if he intentionally decidded to stay unmarried

FINALLY I SAY IF YOU THINK I AM TALKING RUBBISH THEN JUST KEEP PUTTING THAT CONDITION AND THE TIME WILL TEACH YOU (but later you wont be able to say: no one adviced me)

Because i am a man and i know men and i say to you from experince

Smiley

^Don't worry, sis, you'll get used to him. It seems he's marriage obsessed.

Yes thats true inshallah i am and will allways be "marriage obsessed" and i am proud of it and i promote it and inshallah you will also promote that and teach your son and husband to do the same otherwise you will regret just like some others who regreted before you

I adviced them 7 years in advance and now as i predicted thier sons turned out gays because they wanted to keep them pure and single lol .

I complained about Sister TIBA's Condition for many reasions namly:

that this sister would eliminate people like me from the first step because i did get married before and allways tried to stay clean and do my religious duty and obligation

However most the males in my environement whom i know (even the ones who act so religioius and go to mosques), they are all so currupted and most of them fornicated and did all sorts of marriage related currruptions but they claim that they are pure singles and they say:

Staying single is good u can be pure and single

one of them was spying on married woman and then when i tell him : do you want marriage he says no Astaghfirullah (like mariiage is a crime)

This preist naighbourhood

These guys will definaltly have a better chance with this sister because none of them admits that during this 15 years of the so called "pure single life" he was commiting all those crimes.

So i leave it to god and in judgment it will all be clear

Edited July 13, 2007 by alimohamad40

[Mommin]

(salam)

This preist naighbourhood

(salam)

That was a good quote!

I guess I understand what you are saying alimohamad40 that guys who got married tried to follow their religion and become pure, but if they were married before you will want to know why the marriage didn't work out? Is the fault due to them or some other factor? So some people might not trust this guy and think he is not responsible.

I think if a man has been married before than he has to try and explain his circumstances properly because at the end of the day no one is perfect.

Ws

[Master Chief]

This is the most confusing thread I have ever read. What the heck is going on this thread? Past? Present? Future? I'm going to of the read some journal articles (they make more sense than this)

[Abu Hadi]

(salam)

I think the br is overgeneralizing but essentially his point is sound, regarding the subgroup of people he is refering to. Noone disputes that these people exist but we dispute whether we think they are a minority or the majority. His first point is this

Any man in his late 20 or early 30 who claims to have lead a 'pure, single life' (especially someone who lives in US, Europe, Canada) fits into one of four catagories

1) He has low libido. Like the br said this is rare.

2) He has the patience of a Nabi, which is even more rare

3) He is a liar, which is very common

4) He is corrupted and a liar, which is even more common

This is because we were created to be married. Patience in Islam is hours, days, or weeks and not months, years, or decades. Men and women are asked to control their desires for days and weeks under various circumstances but Allah(s.w.a) never asked us to forego a marriage relationship for very long periods of time. This is called monastacism and is discouraged and in many cases forbidden completely. Unfortunately, now days it is very fashionable amoung muslims to wrap a Victorian style version of marriage ethics and wrap it in an Islamic cover and call it 'Islam'. These men and women will quote (out of context) hadith regarding patience and will ignore a vast number of hadith that encourage early marriage and in general, promote marriage in a very broad context as moral rather than the Victorian view of a moral marriage in a very narrow and unrealistic fashion. They leave out the fact that this Victorian concept of marriage has pretty much totally corrupted the non Muslim male and female in the West. This is an obvious reality that all of us who live in the West deal with on a daily and hourly basis. They will also not discuss the fact that Our Prophet (pbuh) and all Imams (as) encouraged, preached about, and practiced marriage in a broad context. That is unfortunate and is causing incalculable damage in our communities.

Of course, if the guy is charming, good looking and/or rich the girl automatically assumes he is in catagories 1 or 2 although logically we know that it is almost certain that he is in catagories 3 or 4.

Guys who are good looking, charming, and/or rich have much more easy access to mutah relationships or unhalal zina relationships that guys who don't have any of those qualities. I don't think alimohammed40 is marriage obsessed, I think he keeps bringing up the point because he thinks that he is being ignored and wants to get his point across.

The second point is that why do some(he says most) women prefer a husband who is most likely corrupt vs a husband who is most likely not corrupt(someone who married at the proper age)? It doesn't make sense to him when it comes to muslim women. You would expect this behaviour from mushrikat or atheist women but not a religious women or especially a muslima. Those are his observations and I agree with about 80% of what he is saying.

Like most muslim men, all my friends are muslim guys and I have been around longer than most guys on SC (I'm 34 and have lived most of my life away from the computer screen). I have traveled far and wide to many cities in the US and elsewhere. It is pretty much the same story everywhere. Most men lie to their wives, but they tell their friends the truth, especially regarding past(or sometimes not so past) romantic events and encounters. If the sisters on this site (especially the ones in their late teens, early 20s) knew half of what I know(from first hand accounts), it would bring their marriage delusions crashing down before their eyes. I will not reveal anything though. I have friends because I know how to keep secrets and I will take them with me to the grave and that is the duty of a muslim to his brother.

Sister, if you only knew the truth. Oh well, ...

Edited July 14, 2007 by Abu Hadi

[postmaster1923]

I didn't say being marriage obsessed is a bad thing.

Br. Abu Hadi, if humans are meant to only be single for weeks or months, then doesn't that make forced singleness, which may continue for years, an unbearable hardship? (I mean forced by circumstances beyond the control of the individual, such as lack of available partner.)

[Abu Hadi]

I didn't say being marriage obsessed is a bad thing.

Br. Abu Hadi, if humans are meant to only be single for weeks or months, then doesn't that make forced singleness, which may continue for years, an unbearable hardship? (I mean forced by circumstances beyond the control of the individual, such as lack of available partner.)

Yes, that would be an unbearable hardship. I can't even imagine many months or many years without a partner. Since I hit puberty (which was about 14 for me), I haven't been single for more than a month. Maybe Allah(s.w.a) has blessed me in this way, I don't know? I don't know the intimate details of others lives (except when my male friends and collegues give me information that I didn't ask for) and I really don't care to know so I don't know if my case is the norm or not. Based on my little group of friends, it is within the normal range :unsure:

My observation has been that in almost all cases, singleness is not forced, but is a concious choice. There are exceptions, but in most cases sisters and brothers place artificial limits on themselves and others that have nothing to do with Islam and use these artificial limits to guide their life rather than Islam. Most sisters and brothers say, 'Oh Allah(s.w.a) send me a good partner with Iman and taqwa'

The problem is that they don't stop there and start to add condition after condition until basically every eligable man/woman in the community is eliminated. And then they wonder why they are still single and can't find someone to marry.

My point was that we would live in a much better world if we used the Islamic criteria and then stopped at that. If this happened, 99.9% of muslims who are balgha would be married and there would be much, much, much less corruption in the world and in our own communities to deal with.

If I can push some brothers and sisters in that direction just by a millimeter or so then I feel like I have done a good thing. :angel:

BTW, sis, as far as availability of partners, this is not a problem in most places, except maybe where you live. If we lived in a true Islamic community, a br or sis could walk into their closest mosque and say, 'I need to get married, you guys/girls need to help me out' and not be ashamed to even announce it in a public way. I have never tried this myself, but it definitely wouldn't go over too well in any of the mosques that I have visited. I am assuming this (since I never tried it) but the assumption is based on lots of anecdotal evidence.

It is the responsibility of the local Islamic community to help each other with their needs including emotional, financial, marriage, etc. I saw something interesting at the Friday prayer that is encouraging in this direction

As many of you know I live in Dearborn and most often attend Jummah prayer at the Islamic Center of America on Ford Road (the big mosque). Also, maybe some of you know about the unfortunate death this last week of a brother in the community who was a revert and also an alim, Sheik Carney. As happens many times with reverts, he was abandoned by his family and therefore had noone to pay his funeral expenses. So after the Friday Khutba, Sayyid Hassan Qazwini announced the event of the the death, said that he didn't have money to pay his funeral expenses, and said that the funeral home was owed $5,000 and then turned to the crowd. He announced that he was not going to pass around the basket and said he only needed 10 people who would give $500 each. Within about 20 seconds, the hands were up and the money was raised. Problem solved. If we had this same attitude about marriage in the community, we would have another problem solved.

Edited July 14, 2007 by Abu Hadi

[Perfectionism 101]

^Marriage doesn't necessarily lessen the corruption in our society, but I see your point.

My observation has been that in almost all cases, singleness is not forced, but is a concious choice.

A very keen observer, indeed.

[postmaster1923]

Yes, that would be an unbearable hardship.

Yes, well Allah doesn't place anyone in unbearable hardship. :dry:

What about those who are not placing unreasonable limits (for example, standards which include pretty much only male, breathing, and at least moderately pious Muslim, everything else is negotiable - definitely NOT with the restriction that he must have been previously unmarried, heck not even with the limitation that he hasn't had girlfriends if he has repented of that sin) but, due to circumstances, are not able to live in a community where there are other Muslims?

It is the responsibility of the local Islamic community to help each other with their needs including emotional, financial, marriage, etc.

What, also, about prison inmates, political prisoners, people who are terminally ill, disabled, disfigured, or homeless? Does Allah place an unbearable burden on them?

Edited July 14, 2007 by smiley

[Abu Hadi]

Yes, well Allah doesn't place anyone in unbearable hardship. :dry:

Very true. I guess I should be more clear. What I meant was that it would be unbearable for me given my current capacity to deal with those tests. I hope I am never tested in this way, but if I am I will pray that Allah(s.w.a) will give me the mental and spiritual capacity to pass the test.

What about those who are not placing unreasonable limits (for example, standards which include pretty much only male, breathing, and at least moderately pious Muslim, everything else is negotiable - definitely NOT with the restriction that he must have been previously unmarried, heck not even with the limitation that he hasn't had girlfriends if he has repented of that sin) but, due to circumstances, are not able to live in a community where there are other Muslims?

That is a difficult situation but if you really want to be in a relationship with a good muslim man, make a heartfelt duaa' to Allah(s.w.a) (maybe you have done this in the past but do it again) and your answer may come from a direction that you don't expect. Where there's a will, there's a way and with Allah(s.w.a)'s help, anything is possible. I'm positive that there are male, breathing, somewhat pious muslims men in your area that you maybe don't know about yet. I'm going to read dua' Jawsha Al Sagra tonight (for my own problems I am currently experiencing) and I will ask Allah(s.w.a) to bring you a nice muslim guy who you will be happy with. I don't know if it will work, but it's worth a try ;)

I have a long list of br and sis(some on this site) who I am asking for and I will be sure to remember you and your situation.

What, also, about prison inmates, political prisoners, people who are terminally ill, disabled, disfigured, or homeless? Does Allah place an unbearable burden on them?

I think I clarified this above. Those people are in extremely difficult situation and maybe Allah(s.w.a) gave them an extra share of his mercy by way of additional patience.