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Posted (edited)

Namaz of Fatimah Zahra (s.a.)

It is also known as “Namaz of Istighaatha”, an appeal. It is a two Rakat Namaz, prayed exactly like Fajr Namaz. After Salaam recite “Salaawaat”, “Bismillahir Rahmanir Raheem” and Tasbih of Fatimah Zahra (s.a.)

Allahu Akbar Allah is great,

Al Hamdu lillaah Praise be to Allah.

Subhaanallaah Glory be to Allah.

Laa ilaaha illallaah There is no god save Allah.

(i) Then go into Sajdah and recite the following 100 times:

Yaa mawlaatee Yaa Faatimata Aghithnee.

O Master! O Fatimah! Come to my help!

(ii) Rise, go into Sajdah, and putting the right cheek on the Sajdagah, recite the above Dua 100 times.

(iii) Rise, go into Sajdah and recite the above Dua 100 times.

(iv) Rise, go into Sajdah and putting the left cheek on the Sajdagah, recite the above Dua 100 times.

(v) Rise, go into Sajdah, recite the above Dua 100 times, and in Sajdah, beseech Allah to fulfil your legimate desires, or seek His help to remove your hardships.

MY QUESTIONS:

i want to ask how do we pronounce : Yaa mawlaatee Yaa Faatimata Aghithnee

does any one know where to find this dua in arabic?

how do we pronounce this word:“Namaz of Istighaatha”, ??

Edited by fauziaseyyed
  • Advanced Member
Posted

íÇ ãæáÇÊí íÇ ÝÇØãÉ ÃÛíËíäí

I assume you are not sure how the 'th' of Isteghatha is pronounced. The 'th' is this alphabet of Arabic -> Ë

  • Advanced Member
Posted (edited)

Ya Mawlaatee Ya Fatimatu Agisinee.

Here is two corrections that it should not be Fatimata and Agithnee.... it should be Fatimatu and Agithinee.

And Agisinee/ Agithinee and Istegatha/ Istegasa are pronounced with Ë

Fee Amanillah.

Edited by shukranlillah
  • Advanced Member
Posted

Salam sis.

If you still have problems with pronunciation then plz check out these two links. I have googled it for you.

These links have got audio support to let you hear the pronunciation.

http://www.nzmuslim.net/article34.html

http://198.173.232.45/arabic/alphabet.html

Not bad!

InshaAllah the pronunciation of th / Ë / the fourth letter of Arabic Alphabet will be clear to you.

Let me know if it is clear or not, sis!

Fee Amanillah.

  • Advanced Member
Posted (edited)

I am sorry sis! There was an error in my first post. I have edited that post.

It should be Agithinee not Agithnee!

So before u r having the signs, plz see again: A-gee-thee-nee, okay?

Ageetheenee is a bit similiar to Ageeseenee except that in pronunciation "th" is used for the 4th letter and "s" is for the 11th letter of Arabic Alphabet.

Hope it helps..

Fee Amanillah.

Edited by shukranlillah
  • 2 weeks later...
  • Advanced Member
Posted

Dear Bhanji when u come here please get Mfateh Al Jannan you will find every thing in this wonderfull book.

Fee Amman Allah

I am sorry sis! There was an error in my first post. I have edited that post.

It should be Agithinee not Agithnee!

So before u r having the signs, plz see again: A-gee-thee-nee, okay?

Ageetheenee is a bit similiar to Ageeseenee except that in pronunciation "th" is used for the 4th letter and "s" is for the 11th letter of Arabic Alphabet.

Hope it helps..

Fee Amanillah.

  • 2 months later...
  • 5 years later...
Posted

Namaz of Fatimah Zahra (s.a.)

It is also known as “Namaz of Istighaatha”, an appeal. It is a two Rakat Namaz, prayed exactly like Fajr Namaz. After Salaam recite “Salaawaat”, “Bismillahir Rahmanir Raheem” and Tasbih of Fatimah Zahra (s.a.)

Allahu Akbar Allah is great,

Al Hamdu lillaah Praise be to Allah.

Subhaanallaah Glory be to Allah.

Laa ilaaha illallaah There is no god save Allah.

(i) Then go into Sajdah and recite the following 100 times:

Yaa mawlaatee Yaa Faatimata Aghithnee.

O Master! O Fatimah! Come to my help!

(ii) Rise, go into Sajdah, and putting the right cheek on the Sajdagah, recite the above Dua 100 times.

(iii) Rise, go into Sajdah and recite the above Dua 100 times.

(iv) Rise, go into Sajdah and putting the left cheek on the Sajdagah, recite the above Dua 100 times.

(v) Rise, go into Sajdah, recite the above Dua 100 times, and in Sajdah, beseech Allah to fulfil your legimate desires, or seek His help to remove your hardships.

MY QUESTIONS:

i want to ask how do we pronounce : Yaa mawlaatee Yaa Faatimata Aghithnee

does any one know where to find this dua in arabic?

how do we pronounce this word:“Namaz of Istighaatha”, ??

You just invited the plethora of closet Wahabis...

I've never once had any Dua' got unanswered after reading this Dua of shifaa' of Sayeeda (as).

Posted (edited)

Why do people get so defensive when someone asks for sources? There is something terribly wrong with people if they get upset when someone asks for reference. I mean if it was Ayatollah Sistani or someone said such a thing then it would be acceptable not to doubt, but even he wouldn't get upset if a person asked for reference. It is obligatory for shias to research and ask for proper sources.

We have so many sayings and stuff we believe in that just isn't true or valid, it is about time we remedy these things.

Edited by repenter
  • Advanced Member
Posted

Namaz of Fatimah Zahra (s.a.)

It is also known as “Namaz of Istighaatha”, an appeal. It is a two Rakat Namaz, prayed exactly like Fajr Namaz. After Salaam recite “Salaawaat”, “Bismillahir Rahmanir Raheem” and Tasbih of Fatimah Zahra (s.a.)

Allahu Akbar Allah is great,

Al Hamdu lillaah Praise be to Allah.

Subhaanallaah Glory be to Allah.

Laa ilaaha illallaah There is no god save Allah.

(i) Then go into Sajdah and recite the following 100 times:

Yaa mawlaatee Yaa Faatimata Aghithnee.

O Master! O Fatimah! Come to my help!

(ii) Rise, go into Sajdah, and putting the right cheek on the Sajdagah, recite the above Dua 100 times.

(iii) Rise, go into Sajdah and recite the above Dua 100 times.

(iv) Rise, go into Sajdah and putting the left cheek on the Sajdagah, recite the above Dua 100 times.

(v) Rise, go into Sajdah, recite the above Dua 100 times, and in Sajdah, beseech Allah to fulfil your legimate desires, or seek His help to remove your hardships.

MY QUESTIONS:

i want to ask how do we pronounce : Yaa mawlaatee Yaa Faatimata Aghithnee

does any one know where to find this dua in arabic?

how do we pronounce this word:“Namaz of Istighaatha”, ??

You go into sajdah and recite oh my master oh Fatima come to my help? Are you serious? Subhan'Allah im learning new things everyday from this ShiaChat.

Posted

You go into sajdah and recite oh my master oh Fatima come to my help? Are you serious? Subhan'Allah im learning new things everyday from this ShiaChat.

Shiachat isn't a source you know. It's a place to debate, and you will find quite a lot of misinformation here from members. Don't take everything as facts.

  • Veteran Member
Posted

Shiachat isn't a source you know. It's a place to debate, and you will find quite a lot of misinformation here from members. Don't take everything as facts.

I agree with you, but unfortunately this particular piece of nonsense has the endorsement of some top scholars. It's sad, but that's the way it is.

  • Advanced Member
Posted

I think if you don't agree with something someone says or goes against what you believe (Shiasm) than you should probably refute them. If no one is refuting them than maybe people might think it's true. Allah knows best.

  • Veteran Member
Posted (edited)

lol some of you are a joke honestly. You dont go to sujdaa for Fatima A.S, come on! You go to Sudja for Allah, because you are in sujda your showing your obedience to Allah even more, and you ask Fatima to get help from Allah because she is the most pious, the most faithful, while you "hence praying" need shafa. Therefore, Allah is the giver of your dua and receiver of our dua....Fatima A.S is a means to Allah.

I will keep saying this, we all commit shirk eveyday, whether we call our parents for anything, whether we use our mouth, hands, legs, cars. Ask Allah ONLY THEN, when your about to drown in the sea, and you see a person, do not call on him for help because Allah says call on me for everything!

Edit: Seyyed please keep me in your prayers and duas...Wa Salaam

check this out.. http://www.duas.org/namazofmasoomeen.htm#JF1

Edited by pureethics
  • Veteran Member
Posted

I think if you don't agree with something someone says or goes against what you believe (Shiasm) than you should probably refute them. If no one is refuting them than maybe people might think it's true. Allah knows best.

Well, as macisaac pointed out, it is narrated by a well-known ghali:

( 10 ) - 2 - المُفَضَّل بنُ عُمَر، الجُعْفيُّ، أبُو عَبْداللَّه. ضَعِيْفٌ، مُتَهافِتٌ، مُرْتَفِع القول، خَطّابِيٌّ. وقد زِيْدَ عليهِ شَيْ‏ءٌ كَثِيرٌ، وحَمَلَ‏ الغُلاةُ في حديثِهِ حَمْلاً عَظيْماً. ولا يَجُوزُ أنْ يُكْتَبَ حديثُهُ. وروى‏ عن أبي عَبْداللَّه، وأبي الحَسَن (ع).

2 – al-Mufaddal b. `Umar, al-Ju`fi, Abu `Abdillah. Weak, collapsed, a proponent of irtifa` in doctrine, Khattabi. Many things have been added (i.e. attributed) upon him, and his hadith carry a great amount of weight with the ghulat. It is not permissible to write his hadith. He narrated from Abu `Abdillah عليه السلام and Abu ‘l-Hasan عليه السلام.

http://www.*******.org/rijal/kitab-ad-duafa-of-ibn-al-ghadairi

As for our views on the ghulat, see

In addition, if the earliest source for this that we actually have really is Bihar al-Anwar, then that is very late (16th century CE).

Posted

I agree with you, but unfortunately this particular piece of nonsense has the endorsement of some top scholars. It's sad, but that's the way it is.

Yes. Though i wasn't talking about this particular piece. I don't have any knowledge about it, nor have i read about it. I was talking in general that Shiachat isn't a Risalah, which unfortunately many seem to think it is. Anyone with a particular attractive way of writing in addition to convincing skills seem to get the attention of many member, and they regard his or hers sayings as facts.

This is somewhat disturbing, as this is a debate forum, and not a howzah.

  • Veteran Member
Posted

Maybe its not authentic maybe there is a ghali in chain of narration, but this sallat itself do you specifically see anything that seems to be shirk?

Yeah. Doing sajda while calling on other than Allah to help you pretty much sounds like shirk (considering so much of the Quran is spent telling us to only call on Allah and rely in Allah). People can try to play all the 'intention' games they want, but at the end of the day doing sajda to one person while calling on someone else to help you is illogical, and clearly the kind of thing that is going to lead to confusion among those who aren't familiar with all these subtleties.

It amazes me that people think Allah (swt) spent so much time in the Qur'an warning against shirk, in many different forms, only to approve of practices that look and sound like shirk, but supposedly aren't due to the intention. What possible benefit would there be in doing this?

  • Veteran Member
Posted (edited)

Yeah. Doing sajda while calling on other than Allah to help you pretty much sounds like shirk (considering so much of the Quran is spent telling us to only call on Allah and rely in Allah). People can try to play all the 'intention' games they want, but at the end of the day doing sajda to one person while calling on someone else to help you is illogical, and clearly the kind of thing that is going to lead to confusion among those who aren't familiar with all these subtleties.

It amazes me that people think Allah (swt) spent so much time in the Qur'an warning against shirk, in many different forms, only to approve of practices that look and sound like shirk, but supposedly aren't due to the intention. What possible benefit would there be in doing this?

where does it say your doing sujdah to fatima WOW BRO HONESTLY STOP WITH THIS IDIOTIC NONSENSE!

Allahu Akbar Allah is great,

Al Hamdu lillaah Praise be to Allah.

Subhaanallaah Glory be to Allah.

Laa ilaaha illallaah There is no god save Allah.

^^^^This is the dua

(i) Then go into Sajdah and recite the following 100 times: your using Fatima to intercede on your behalf!

Yaa mawlaatee Yaa Faatimata Aghithnee.

O Master! O Fatimah! Come to my help!

(ii) Rise, go into Sajdah, and putting the right cheek on the Sajdagah, recite the above Dua 100 times.

(iii) Rise, go into Sajdah and recite the above Dua 100 times.

(iv) Rise, go into Sajdah and putting the left cheek on the Sajdagah, recite the above Dua 100 times.

(v) Rise, go into Sajdah, recite the above Dua 100 times, and in Sajdah, beseech Allah to fulfil your legimate desires, or seek His help to remove your hardships.

No intercessor can plead with Him except by His permission.[103]

Who is he that can intercede with Him except with His permission?[104]

And they cannot intercede, except for Him with whom He is pleased.[106]

None shall have the power of intercession except one who has received permission or a promise from Allah, the Most Gracious.[107]

Intercession with Him profits none except for those He permits.[108]

(The brothers of Yusuf) said, “O our father! Ask forgiveness from Allah for our sins. Indeed, we have been sinners.” He said, “I will ask my Lord for forgiveness for you.” Verily, He, and only He, is the Oft-Forgiving, Most Merciful.[109]

The Intercessors are five: the Quran, one's near relatives, trusts (amanah), your Prophet, and the family of your Prophet (the Ahlul Bayt).[112]

Shafa΄ah is not to ask the prophet or the imams for protection or to ward off calamity or to bring happiness and success. Rather, it is to plead to Allah, the Almighty by the sake of those who are near to Him, like the prophets and the imams.

The Prophet (s) said, “Fatima is part of me, and whoever pleases her, pleases me.”

Al-Sawaiq Al-Muhariqa, p. 180 & 132; Mustadrak Al-Hakim; Maarifat Ma Yajib Li Aal Al-Bait Al-Nabawi Min Al-Haqq Alaa Men Adahum, p. 73; Yanabi^ Al-Mawadda, v. 2, ch. 59, p. 468.

[Yusufali 7:77] Then they ham-strung the she camel, and insolently defied the order of their Lord, saying: “O Salih! bring about thy threats, if thou art a messenger (of Allah)!”

[Yusufali 7:78] So the earthquake took them unawares, and they lay prostrate in their homes in the morning!

[Yusufali 7:79] So Salih left them, saying: “O my people! I did indeed convey to you the message for which I was sent by my Lord: I gave you good counsel, but ye love not good counsellors!”

[Yusufali 7:91] But the earthquake took them unawares, and they lay prostrate in their homes before the morning!

[Yusufali 7:92] The men who reject Shu’aib became as if they had never been in the homes where they had flourished: the men who rejected Shu’aib – it was they who were ruined!

[Yusufali 7:93] So Shu’aib left them, saying:”O my people! I did indeed convey to you the messages for which I was sent by my Lord: I gave you good counsel, but how shall I lament over a people who refuse to believe!”

Narrated Ibn ‘Umar:

“The Messenger of Allah spoke to the People (buried) in the Well saying: “Have you found out that what your Lord had promised you is true?” then someone exclaimed: “Are you calling out to the dead!” The Prophet replied: “You do not hear better than they do, except they do not respond.”

Sahih Bukhari, Volume 2, Book 23, Number 452

Is there not a prayer for the dead that the prophet would do? and we do now? We are asking Allah to help the day on our behalf, we are interceding for our dead loved ones...is that SHIRK?!

Edited by pureethics
  • Veteran Member
Posted

Because you think the Jahiliyya Arabs never called on Allah while also calling on others (such as angels, prophets, false gods, etc)?

I don't know in what world "Oh Fatima help me" translates into "Oh Fatima intercede on my behalf". I mean, if that's what a person means, then why not just say it?

Answer me this. If the intention was to ask Fatima (as) to use her wilaya takweeniya (that was given to her by Allah) to help you directly, then would that be wrong?

  • Veteran Member
Posted

Because you think the Jahiliyya Arabs never called on Allah while also calling on others (such as angels, prophets, false gods, etc)?

I don't know in what world "Oh Fatima help me" translates into "Oh Fatima intercede on my behalf". I mean, if that's what a person means, then why not just say it?

Answer me this. If the intention was to ask Fatima (as) to use her wilaya takweeniya (that was given to her by Allah) to help you directly, then would that be wrong?

Bro, I have already told you before, you commit shirk everyday. You ask help from doctors and your parents. You CANNOT deny it. That is shirk because like you say ask ONLY Allah. Yet according to you its not, but the power given by Allah to his selected perfect humans to help us is Shirk? Far from it. Without Allah's will, there would be no Fatima Ali Muhammad and so on. I dont know anything about wilaya takweeniya, but like I said, if Allah has given them the authority, by Allah's permission, they can help us by the help of Allah, no that would not be wrong. Once you take Allah out of the equation then it is shirk. THOSE arabs, CONNECTED Allah WITH OBJECTS AND THINGS, they didnt say the power that the object has for example is from Allah, they said, the object itself has to power to create and help, without Allah, THAT IS SHIRK, besides the fact that those things that those arabs chose were never chosen by Allah. We use the prophets/imams/chosenones for help because Allah choose them.

  • Advanced Member
Posted (edited)

Narrated Ibn ‘Umar:

“The Messenger of Allah spoke to the People (buried) in the Well saying: “Have you found out that what your Lord had promised you is true?” then someone exclaimed: “Are you calling out to the dead!” The Prophet replied: “You do not hear better than they do, except they do not respond.”

Sahih Bukhari, Volume 2, Book 23, Number 452

Why did you quote from Sahih Bukhari? Since when did you start believing whats written on there?

Edited by Ayeesha
  • Veteran Member
Posted (edited)

Bro, I have already told you before, you commit shirk everyday. You ask help from doctors and your parents. You CANNOT deny it. That is shirk because like you say ask ONLY Allah.

There is a difference between the type of help you seek from Allah and the type you seek from people you know, and you are perfectly aware of that. For example, you would never pray to Allah to make you dinner, but you would ask your mother. On the other hand, you wouldn't ask your mother to ensure that your wife has a child, you would ask Allah.

Now, the type of help people ask from the Ahlulbayt (as), is it closer to the type of help they would ask of Allah, or the type of help they would ask of their doctors and parents?

Yet according to you its not, but the power given by Allah to his selected perfect humans to help us is Shirk? Far from it.

Where is your evidence that they have been selected to carry out these tasks?

Without Allah's will, there would be no Fatima Ali Muhammad and so on.

And you think the Jahiliyya Arabs didn't consider Allah to be the ultimate creator and power in the universe?

Say: Who gives you sustenance from the heaven and the earth? Or Who controls the hearing and the sight? And Who brings forth the living from the dead, and brings forth the dead from the living? And Who regulates the affairs? Then they will say: Allah. Say then: Will you not then guard (against evil)? [10:31]

Why do you think intercession is such a big theme in the Quran? It's because they used to claim that they were simply seeking intercession with Allah.

And they serve beside Allah what can neither harm them nor profit them, and they say: These are our intercessors with Allah. Say: Do you (presume to) inform Allah of what He knows not in the heavens and the earth? Glory be to Him, and supremely exalted is He above what they set up (with Him). [Qur'an 10:18, Shakir translation]

Now, surely, sincere obedience is due to Allah (alone) and (as for) those who take guardians besides Him, (saying), We do not serve them save that they may make us nearer to Allah, surely Allah will judge between them in that in which they differ; surely Allah does not guide him aright who is a liar, ungrateful. [Qur'an 39:3, Shakir translation]

If the Arabs believed that those whom they worshipped had power independent of Allah, then why would they bother saying this? You think if you asked an Ancient Greek about why he was worshipping Poseidon, that he would say it was because he wanted to get closer to Zeus? No. He would say, because Poseidon is the god of the sea, and I want a safe journey, or whatever. They believed that their gods had different wills to one another and would fight one another, etc. I'm not sure if there is any evidence that the Arabs believed that their gods could go against Allah.

I dont know anything about wilaya takweeniya, but like I said, if Allah has given them the authority, by Allah's permission, they can help us by the help of Allah, no that would not be wrong.

That's fine, but them lets stop with all the nonsense about in reality asking Fatima (as) to ask Allah to help us, when in fact it is asking Fatima (as) to help us with the powers given to her by Allah.

Once you take Allah out of the equation then it is shirk. THOSE arabs, CONNECTED Allah WITH OBJECTS AND THINGS, they didnt say the power that the object has for example is from Allah, they said, the object itself has to power to create and help, without Allah, THAT IS SHIRK, besides the fact that those things that those arabs chose were never chosen by Allah. We use the prophets/imams/chosenones for help because Allah choose them.

What objects and things? I think you are under the impression that they only worshipped lifeless made-up idols, which isn't the case.

It is not meet for a mortal that Allah should give him the Book and the wisdom and prophethood, then he should say to men: Be my servants rather than Allah's; but rather (he would say): Be worshippers of the Lord because of your teaching the Book and your reading (it yourselves). And neither would he enjoin you that you should take the angels and the prophets for lords; what! would he enjoin you with unbelief after you are Muslims? [Qur'an 3:79-80, Shakir]

Do you think those Arabs were all so dumb that they recognised that Allah was the creator of the heavens and the earth, and regulated their affairs, and when asked about what they were doing they said they were simply seeking intercession, but then they thought Allah's prophets and angels had power that wasn't from Allah? How could a created being have power independent of the creator? Nobody is stupid enough to believe that anything created can do something that the creator didn't allow it to do (unless the creator made mistake, which I doubt they believed).

What! do then those who disbelieve think that they can take My servants to be guardians besides Me? Surely We have prepared hell for the entertainment of the unbelievers. [18:102]

And there are some among men who take for themselves objects of worship besides Allah, whom they love as they love Allah, and those who believe are stronger in love for Allah and O, that those who are unjust had seen, when they see the chastisement, that the power is wholly Allah's and that Allah is severe in requiting (evil). When those who were followed shall renounce those who followed (them), and they see the chastisement and their ties are cut asunder. And those who followed shall say: Had there been for us a return, then we would renounce them as they have renounced us. Thus will Allah show them their deeds to be intense regret to them, and they shall not come forth from the fire. [2:165-167]

And who is in greater error than he who calls besides Allah upon those that will not answer him till the day of resurrection and they are heedless of their call? And when men are gathered together they shall be their enemies, and shall be deniers of their worshipping (them). [47:5-6]

You can't renounce someone if you don't exist, so clearly the objects of worship mentioned here existed.

Anyway, I discussed all these issues in another thread:

Edited by Haydar Husayn
Posted

Bro, I have already told you before, you commit shirk everyday. You ask help from doctors and your parents. You CANNOT deny it. That is shirk because like you say ask ONLY Allah. Yet according to you its not, but the power given by Allah to his selected perfect humans to help us is Shirk? Far from it. Without Allah's will, there would be no Fatima Ali Muhammad and so on. I dont know anything about wilaya takweeniya, but like I said, if Allah has given them the authority, by Allah's permission, they can help us by the help of Allah, no that would not be wrong. Once you take Allah out of the equation then it is shirk. THOSE arabs, CONNECTED Allah WITH OBJECTS AND THINGS, they didnt say the power that the object has for example is from Allah, they said, the object itself has to power to create and help, without Allah, THAT IS SHIRK, besides the fact that those things that those arabs chose were never chosen by Allah. We use the prophets/imams/chosenones for help because Allah choose them.

[ 34912 ] 9 ـ وعن محمد بن الحسن ، عن الصفار ، عن الحسن بن موسى الخشاب ، عن يزيد بن إسحاق شعر ، عن عباس بن يزيد ، عن أبي عبدالله ( عليه السلام ) قال : قلت له : إن هؤلاء العوام يزعمون أن الشرك أخفى من دبيب النمل في الليلة الظلماء على المسح الأسود ، فقال : لا يكون العبد مشركا حتى يصلي لغير الله ، أو يذبح لغير الله ، أو يدعو لغير الله عزّ وجلّ .

9 – And from Muhammad b. al-Hasan from as-Saffar from al-Hasan b. Musa the wood merchant from Yazid b. Ishaq Sha`ar from `Abbas b. Yazid from Abu `Abdillah عليه السلام. He said: I said to him: Verily these `awamm claim that shirk is more obscure than the creeping of the ant in a dark night upon the black haircloth. So he said: The servant is not a mushrik until he prays to other than Allah, or slaughters (an animal) for other than Allah, or supplicates to other than Allah `azza wa jalla.

Perhaps you'll claim this isn't praying, but can you claim this isn't supplicating? And do you see any exception being given here, that it's not shirk if you happen to be supplicating to the Ma`sum?

  • Veteran Member
Posted (edited)

There is a difference between the type of help you seek from Allah and the type you seek from people you know, and you are perfectly aware of that. For example, you would never pray to Allah to make you dinner, but you would ask your mother. On the other hand, you wouldn't ask your mother to ensure that your wife has a child, you would ask Allah.

There is no difference, asking help is asking help. The thing is though you are the one that is confused. The matter of asking help from your parents or anyone isnt shirk why? Because you know what ever help they give comes from Allah. Allah is the creator and sustainer. It is Allah who gave your mom life and gives your mom the power to walk and talk. Without Allah your mom wouldnt help you. What im trying to tell you, if you say it is shirk to ask help from an imam is same thing as asking help from your parents, therefore you must then ask Allah to keep you full and not hungry. Ask Allah to give you food. Another example, since you seem to not understand. When someone is sick, where do they go? To the doctors, but only Allah has the power to cure, isnt that shirk? No, because YOU know Allah gave that individual the strive to learn and help others. You know Allah gave the power for that person to find the medicine in which Allah created in the first place. BTW, your example with asking Allah to give a child for your wife is intercession, you on behalf of your wife is asking Allah. Is that shirk? No, but using an Imam is? Asking your mom to help you isnt shirk, but asking Muhammad is? Dont bring me the dead excuse cause I have already proved from the quran they are alive and they can hear.

Now, the type of help people ask from the Ahlulbayt (as), is it closer to the type of help they would ask of Allah, or the type of help they would ask of their doctors and parents?

Asking help is help. You just using different methods, whether you ask directly or not. Its your choice, I just believe asking through, or directly someone with the highest status for a human being is more valuable then me. BUT, that doesnt mean I dont/cant/shouldnt ask Allah directly. Like I said, you can even do both if you like. Ultimately, it is Allah's will if he decides to help/cure.

Where is your evidence that they have been selected to carry out these tasks?

Oh come on man, Prophet Isa he cured and brought people back to life, Prophet Muhammad having the knowledge of everything and anything wether is how to cure a sickness or best foods to eat, Prophet Moses, changing a staff to a snake, walking on water. Why are these people chosen to carry out these miracles? Because they are prophets, by them doing this it shows they are chosen beings and it is Allah who wills it, not the human itself. Therefore same concept with the imams/infallibles. In fact asking your mom for help would be shirk if you dont realize its Allah who helps you ultamitely.

Q193: Is it permissible to ask for sustenance, a child, protection or intercession directly from the infallible ones?

Follow up: Let me ask you first. Do you seek this from them because they create, or sustain, or protect?

Response: Certainly not. But rather because they are the means to Allah (s.w.t.), the intercessors with Him in the disposal of affairs, and because they cannot do anything but with the permission of Allah, the Sublime and Exalted.

Follow up: You mean that they (Prophets/Imams) ask Allah the Exalted and He creates, and they ask Him and He sustains, and they ask Him and He protects, and because they are intercessors, whose pleas or supplications are not rejected, because of their status with Allah, the Sublime, and for their guardianship over us?

Response: Yes, I mean that.

A: This is permissible. Allah (s.w.t.) says: "...and seek means of nearness to Him..." (Qur'an, 5:35) and they (a.s.) are your means of approach to Allah (s.w.t.). This is permissible. (FM, p. 421)

And you think the Jahiliyya Arabs didn't consider Allah to be the ultimate creator and power in the universe?

Thats the problem, they "said" they were, but at the same time sharing Allah's power independently. Meaning that person/thing had power without Allah.

If you are trying to use these verses to try and equate shia intercession with idolatry it wont work...

Say: Who gives you sustenance from the heaven and the earth? Or Who controls the hearing and the sight? And Who brings forth the living from the dead, and brings forth the dead from the living? And Who regulates the affairs? Then they will say: Allah. Say then: Will you not then guard (against evil)? [10:31]

Im confused, this verse doesnt have to do with anything, I agree with it...

Why do you think intercession is such a big theme in the Quran? It's because they used to claim that they were simply seeking intercession with Allah.

Those verses are talking about those people who says things like "Isa is the son of God," or "He has daughters", or "He has coequals acting on His behalf'", or denies the description of the Holy Prophet in the old scriptures, is a fabricator of lies. Those who have associated others with Allah shall be brought before the true God, the Lord of the worlds, on the day of reckoning for a just requital, then their subterfuge will not help them, their sedition will earn eternal damnation for them, because the acceptance of the falsity of their notions will practically convict them.

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And they serve beside Allah what can neither harm them nor profit them, and they say: These are our intercessors with Allah. Say: Do you (presume to) inform Allah of what He knows not in the heavens and the earth? Glory be to Him, and supremely exalted is He above what they set up (with Him). [Qur'an 10:18, Shakir translation]

Critique

First, this Ayah has no connection with Muslims since they do not worship any thing or object except Allah.

Secondly, as said earlier, addressing the Prophet is not meant to worship him but to request him for supplication and intercession.

Thirdly, it is a matter of surprise to compare the Prophet to those whom the Holy Qur'an says "can neither hurt them nor profit them," since the fact cannot be denied that obedience to the Prophet is to the benefit of Muslims and disobedience to him, whether during his lifetime or after his death, is certainly detrimental to them. Similarly, the supplication and intercession of the Prophet for those who are eligible, whether in worldly life or in the Hereafter, is profitable for the Muslims as unanimously confirmed by the 'ulama'.

Fourthly, it is a grave error to equate the belief of the Muslims that Prophet Muhammad (s) is the intercessor, with the belief of the polytheists "these (idols) are our intercessors with Allah," since God has explicitly rejected their claim as lies.

"...those who take guardians besides Him, (say) we worship them not but (in order) that they make us near to Allah; surely Allah will judge between them about what they differ; surely Allah does not guide the one who is a liar and an ingrate." (39:3)

As is clear from the wordings of the Holy Qur'an the polytheists who make such claims are liars. They are not conscious of God, neither do they worship Him or prostrate to Him nor have they any faith in their Unseen Creator:

"And when it is said to them prostrate you in obeisance to the Rahman (the Beneficent God), they say: Who is Rahman? Shall we prostrate in obeisance unto what you bid us? And it (only) adds to their flight (from the truth)." (25:60)

To pretend that there are other powers than Allah is to invent lies. The idolaters shut their eyes to the goodness and glory of Allah, and go after false gods, and say by way of excuse that their (false) gods will intercede for them and save them from eternal punishment on the day of judgment. Even the noblest cannot intercede as a right, but only with His permission.

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Now, surely, sincere obedience is due to Allah (alone) and (as for) those who take guardians besides Him, (saying), We do not serve them save that they may make us nearer to Allah, surely Allah will judge between them in that in which they differ; surely Allah does not guide him aright who is a liar, ungrateful. [Qur'an 39:3, Shakir translation]

Critique

'Allamah Sayyid Muhammad Husayn Tabataba'i responding to such a reasoning says that according to the books of religions and the testimony of idol-worshippers, hundreds of millions of whom live in India, China and Japan, idolatry is based on the theory that the creation of the universe and even the deities which are worshipped, have as their source the same Almighty God, but since He is beyond comprehension there is no other choice but to worship some of His closest servants such as angels, genies and saints so that they make intercession (shafa'at) and people may reach the proximity of God through them. In the opinion of the polytheists, angels are like the builder to whom the owner of the house has entrusted the building and hence intercession (shafa'at) is according to His discretion.

But, adds 'Allamah Tabataba'i, in the Holy Qur'an tawassul to the Prophets is in the manner of an intermediary and is not something independent, and for this reason it has not been considered as shirk or polytheism. Similarly, the polytheists have been reproached in the Holy Qur'an not because of seeking intercession (shafa'at) but because of worshipping other than God.[30]

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If the Arabs believed that those whom they worshipped had power independent of Allah, then why would they bother saying this?

One again it is proven they were arabs and the were equatingn Allah with idols who they believed was god also.

You think if you asked an Ancient Greek about why he was worshipping Poseidon, that he would say it was because he wanted to get closer to Zeus? No. He would say, because Poseidon is the god of the sea, and I want a safe journey, or whatever. They believed that their gods had different wills to one another and would fight one another, etc. I'm not sure if there is any evidence that the Arabs believed that their gods could go against Allah.

LOL, what are you talking about, the greeks worshipped zeus and stuff because they believed in them as gods. They believed each god had their OWN power. Do we believe Fatima is God? Astagfirullah..just wow

That's fine, but them lets stop with all the nonsense about in reality asking Fatima (as) to ask Allah to help us, when in fact it is asking Fatima (as) to help us with the powers given to her by Allah.

Wether we as through them or from them, Allah if He wills, will let them intercede. Its not like when we ask through them automatically Allah agrees, its still Allah's choice but its like we have a better "face" to Allah because we are using his loved ones.

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It is not meet for a mortal that Allah should give him the Book and the wisdom and prophethood, then he should say to men: Be my servants rather than Allah's; but rather (he would say): Be worshippers of the Lord because of your teaching the Book and your reading (it yourselves). And neither would he enjoin you that you should take the angels and the prophets for lords; what! would he enjoin you with unbelief after you are Muslims? [Qur'an 3:79-80, Shakir]

Isa, as a prophet, did not teach people to worship him or to make him as co-equal with Allah in any sense of the word. Every prophet of Allah invited people to follow him to obey Allah, and surely not to worship his self. It is a false accusation and slander to say that any of the prophets had asked people to deify them. Rabbaniyyina (root is rabb) means those highly learned holy men who are wholly devoted to the Lord, and possess the wisdom of the Lord. Abu Rafi, one of the elders of the Jews of Najran, asked the Holy Prophet:

"Do you invite us to worship you?"

The Holy Prophet answered, "I take refuge with Allah, neither I worship any god save Allah, nor I ask any one to worship any god save Allah".

According to Minhaj al Sadiqin and Umdatul Bayan when the Holy Prophet completed his reply this verse was revealed.

Not only the pagans but also the early Christian church indulged in angel-worship.

Aqa Mahdi Puya says:

Allah had made some of the prophets to excel others (Baqarah: 253), but all of them were the obedient servants of Allah because they were created beings, subordinate to His will and command. People are advised to put into practice the divine commands mentioned in the book which the prophets of Allah used to preach, and reflect the lessons they taught, in letter and spirit, in their deeds.

That which has been said in these two verses is fully incorporated in Islam, submission to the will of Allah, so it is a warning to the followers of the Holy Prophet also.

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Do you think those Arabs were all so dumb that they recognised that Allah was the creator of the heavens and the earth, and regulated their affairs, and when asked about what they were doing they said they were simply seeking intercession, but then they thought Allah's prophets and angels had power that wasn't from Allah? How could a created being have power independent of the creator? Nobody is stupid enough to believe that anything created can do something that the creator didn't allow it to do (unless the creator made mistake, which I doubt they believed).

Hello people still believe that hindus/sik/buddah/greek gods, people where jahil at the time, they had no eduaction what so ever, the thing is they never recognized Allah, they were liars hence Allah said all these to Muhammad A.S

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What! do then those who disbelieve think that they can take My servants to be guardians besides Me? Surely We have prepared hell for the entertainment of the unbelievers. [18:102]

On the day of resurrection all human barriers will be swept away. There will be tumultuous rush. The trumpet will be blown, and the judgement will begin. The disbelievers will encounter the terrible reality. Those very men who refused to believe in the signs of Allah in this world will then see the consequences fully brought up before them. Some commentators say that "Do the disbelievers think that they can take My servants as protectors besides Me?" refer to the Christians who worship Prophet Isa as God or son of God. In verse 30 of Maryam Isa says: "I am indeed a servant of Allah."

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And there are some among men who take for themselves objects of worship besides Allah, whom they love as they love Allah, and those who believe are stronger in love for Allah and O, that those who are unjust had seen, when they see the chastisement, that the power is wholly Allah's and that Allah is severe in requiting (evil). When those who were followed shall renounce those who followed (them), and they see the chastisement and their ties are cut asunder. And those who followed shall say: Had there been for us a return, then we would renounce them as they have renounced us. Thus will Allah show them their deeds to be intense regret to them, and they shall not come forth from the fire. [2:165-167]

We are not equating people with Allah.

In the next life the followers of misguidance will recognise their false leaders, the usurpers, and will wish to be given another chance to experience this life with true light, "the genuine leaders," but there will be no escape from the fire. Allah will show them their actions, done pursuant to their judgements, to prove that as promised justice has been done to them.

Aqa Mahdi Puya says:

This verse makes clear that every individual, in the next life, will be conscious of his deeds in this life. The continuity of the human memory and consciousness, after death, indicated in this verse, dismisses the idea of transmigration of soul.

The Ahmadi interpretation of fire as intense feelings of regret and deprivation, instead of physical suffering, is to belittle the gravity of the divine punishment from which the transgressors shall never come out.

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And who is in greater error than he who calls besides Allah upon those that will not answer him till the day of resurrection and they are heedless of their call? And when men are gathered together they shall be their enemies, and shall be deniers of their worshipping (them). [47:5-6]

I dont know where you got this verse from...

[Shakir 47:5] He will guide them and improve their condition.

[Shakir 47:6] And cause them to enter the garden which He has made known to them.

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You can't renounce someone if you don't exist, so clearly the objects of worship mentioned here existed.

An object and person are two different things...plus it is Allah's will whom He gives permission to intercede

Edited by pureethics
  • Advanced Member
Posted (edited)

(bismillah)

Salam

From the looks of it, it's source is the above book as cited in the Bihar and some other secondary sources. In terms of a chain of narration though, I'm just seeing it's saying it's narrated from Mufaddal b. `Umar, who was a ghali favorite.

Mufazzal bin Umar is also considered trustworthy by other scholars as well right. So this is not a black and white case of Ghali narrator. If i am not wrong, Sheikh Mufeed and Sayed Khoi considered him to be trustworthy.

We have narrations against Mufazzal, we also have narrations from the same Masoom (as) in favour of him.

So for sure there is no absolute certainty regarding him.

[ 34912 ] 9 ـ وعن محمد بن الحسن ، عن الصفار ، عن الحسن بن موسى الخشاب ، عن يزيد بن إسحاق شعر ، عن عباس بن يزيد ، عن أبي عبدالله ( عليه السلام ) قال : قلت له : إن هؤلاء العوام يزعمون أن الشرك أخفى من دبيب النمل في الليلة الظلماء على المسح الأسود ، فقال : لا يكون العبد مشركا حتى يصلي لغير الله ، أو يذبح لغير الله ، أو يدعو لغير الله عزّ وجلّ .

9 – And from Muhammad b. al-Hasan from as-Saffar from al-Hasan b. Musa the wood merchant from Yazid b. Ishaq Sha`ar from `Abbas b. Yazid from Abu `Abdillah عليه السلام. He said: I said to him: Verily these `awamm claim that shirk is more obscure than the creeping of the ant in a dark night upon the black haircloth. So he said: The servant is not a mushrik until he prays to other than Allah, or slaughters (an animal) for other than Allah, or supplicates to other than Allah `azza wa jalla.

Perhaps you'll claim this isn't praying, but can you claim this isn't supplicating? And do you see any exception being given here, that it's not shirk if you happen to be supplicating to the Ma`sum?

Yes this is the only narration on supplication in our Hadees books right?

Like the Ahle Sunna see only the following verse of the Quran and say that only Allah (swt) is the Wali.

أَمِ اتَّخَذُوا مِن دُونِهِ أَوْلِيَاءَ ۖ فَاللَّهُ هُوَ الْوَلِيُّ وَهُوَ يُحْيِي الْمَوْتَىٰ وَهُوَ عَلَىٰ كُلِّ شَيْءٍ قَدِيرٌ

What! Have they taken (for worship) protectors besides Him? But it is Allah,- He is the Protector, and it is He Who gives life to the dead: It is He Who has power over all things, [42:9]

So since the above verse has not exceptions, so taking the Imam's (as) as Wali would be wrong correct?

Below are other narrations/ziyarats found also in our books:

مُسْتَجِيرٌ بِكُمْ ‏زَائِرٌ لَكُمْ لاَئِذٌ عَائِذٌ بِقُبُورِكُمْ مُسْتَشْفِعٌ إِلَى اللَّهِ عَزَّ وَجَلَّ بِكُمْ وَمُتَقَرِّبٌ بِكُمْ إِلَيْهِ ‏وَمُقَدِّمُكُمْ أَمَامَ طَلِبَتِي وَحَوَائِجِي وَإِرَادَتِي

"I take shelter in your neighborhood. I make a visit to do homage and praise you. For me your resting abodes are sanctuaries. In the court of the Almighty you are my advocates. I seek His nearness through you. And submit to you(keep before you) the fulfillment of my wants and desire."

يَا وَلِيَّ اللَّهِ إِنَّ بَيْنِي وَبَيْنَ اللَّهِ عَزَّ وَجَلَّ ذُنُوباً لاَ يَأْتِي عَلَيْهَا إِلاَّ رِضَاكُمْ ‏فَبِحَقِّ مَنِ ائْتَمَنَكُمْ عَلَى سِرِّهِ وَاسْتَرْعَاكُمْ أَمْرَ خَلْقِهِ وَقَرَنَ طَاعَتَكُمْ بِطَاعَتِهِ ‏لَمَّا اسْتَوْهَبْتُمْ ذُنُوبِي وَكُنْتُمْ شُفَعَائِي

"Ya Wali Allah! Indeed there are sins between God - the mighty and tremendous - and me, that cannot be removed except by your pleasure; so by the one who has trusted you with His secret, and has made you shepherds in the affairs of His creation; and has conformed obeying you with obeying Him; seek the pardon of my sins; and you are my interceders."

[source: Ziyarat-e-Jamiya, Uyoon Al-Akbar Al-Reza - Sheikh Sadooq]

For authenticity of the Ziyarat, read at the following link: http://www.alkafi.ne...hread.php?t=460

Below are a couple of more Ziyarat's of Imam Al-Qaim (atfs):

أسألك يا مولاي أن تسأل الله تبارك وتعالى في صلاح شأني ، وقضاء حوائجي ، وغفران ذنوبي ، والأخذ بيدي في ديني ودنياي وآخرتي لي ولاخواني وأخواتي المؤمنين والمؤمنات كافة ، إنه غفور رحيم

"I ask You, O My Master to ask the Almighty God for guidance in my matters, and fulfillment of my needs, and the forgiveness of my sins, and taking my hand in my religion and worldly affairs, and hereafter to me and my brothers and sisters all believing men and women, verily He (Allah)is Forgiving, Merciful."

[source: Al Balad Al Ameen Pg. 286, Misbah Kafa'ami Pg. 497]

Here are the words from a Ziyarat to be recited in the month of Rajab. Its known as "Ziyarat e Rajabia"

This has come from the safeer of the 12th Imam (atfs) - Abul Qasim Al-Husain bin Rooh (ra)

Following is what we say to the Imam's (as) in this Ziyarat.

إني قصدتكم و اعتمدتكم بمسألتي و حاجتي و هي فكاك رقبتي من النار و المقر معكم في دار القرار مع شيعتكم الأبرار و السلام عليكم بما صبرتم فنعم عقبى الدار أنا سائلكم و آملكم فيما إليكم التفويض و عليكم التعويض فبكم يجبر المهيض و يشفى المريض

"I seek you, and depend upon you for my questions/issues and my needs and it is to safe my neck from the fire and make me stay with you in the house of award with your Shias. And peace be upon you .. I ask You and hope upon you in that what has been authorized to you and upon you is the compensation as from you and upon you is to cure the patient."

[source: Misbah Al-Mutahajjid, Sheikh Toosi, Pg. 822]

http://www.marefatea...-help-from-imam

Edited by muhibb-ali
  • Veteran Member
Posted

(bismillah)

Salam

Mufazzal bin Umar is also considered trustworthy by other scholars as well right. So this is not a black and white case of Ghali narrator. If i am not wrong, Sheikh Mufeed and Sayed Khoi considered him to be trustworthy.

We have narrations against Mufazzal, we also have narrations from the same Masoom (as) in favour of him.

So for sure there is no absolute certainty regarding him.

Yes this is the only narration on supplication in our Hadees books right?

Like the Ahle Sunna see only the following verse of the Quran and say that only Allah (swt) is the Wali.

أَمِ اتَّخَذُوا مِن دُونِهِ أَوْلِيَاءَ ۖ فَاللَّهُ هُوَ الْوَلِيُّ وَهُوَ يُحْيِي الْمَوْتَىٰ وَهُوَ عَلَىٰ كُلِّ شَيْءٍ قَدِيرٌ

What! Have they taken (for worship) protectors besides Him? But it is Allah,- He is the Protector, and it is He Who gives life to the dead: It is He Who has power over all things, [42:9]

So since the above verse has not exceptions, so taking the Imam's (as) as Wali would be wrong correct?

Below are other narrations/ziyarats found also in our books:

مُسْتَجِيرٌ بِكُمْ ‏زَائِرٌ لَكُمْ لاَئِذٌ عَائِذٌ بِقُبُورِكُمْ مُسْتَشْفِعٌ إِلَى اللَّهِ عَزَّ وَجَلَّ بِكُمْ وَمُتَقَرِّبٌ بِكُمْ إِلَيْهِ ‏وَمُقَدِّمُكُمْ أَمَامَ طَلِبَتِي وَحَوَائِجِي وَإِرَادَتِي

"I take shelter in your neighborhood. I make a visit to do homage and praise you. For me your resting abodes are sanctuaries. In the court of the Almighty you are my advocates. I seek His nearness through you. And submit to you(keep before you) the fulfillment of my wants and desire."

يَا وَلِيَّ اللَّهِ إِنَّ بَيْنِي وَبَيْنَ اللَّهِ عَزَّ وَجَلَّ ذُنُوباً لاَ يَأْتِي عَلَيْهَا إِلاَّ رِضَاكُمْ ‏فَبِحَقِّ مَنِ ائْتَمَنَكُمْ عَلَى سِرِّهِ وَاسْتَرْعَاكُمْ أَمْرَ خَلْقِهِ وَقَرَنَ طَاعَتَكُمْ بِطَاعَتِهِ ‏لَمَّا اسْتَوْهَبْتُمْ ذُنُوبِي وَكُنْتُمْ شُفَعَائِي

"Ya Wali Allah! Indeed there are sins between God - the mighty and tremendous - and me, that cannot be removed except by your pleasure; so by the one who has trusted you with His secret, and has made you shepherds in the affairs of His creation; and has conformed obeying you with obeying Him; seek the pardon of my sins; and you are my interceders."

[source: Ziyarat-e-Jamiya, Uyoon Al-Akbar Al-Reza - Sheikh Sadooq]

For authenticity of the Ziyarat, read at the following link: http://www.alkafi.ne...hread.php?t=460

Below are a couple of more Ziyarat's of Imam Al-Qaim (atfs):

أسألك يا مولاي أن تسأل الله تبارك وتعالى في صلاح شأني ، وقضاء حوائجي ، وغفران ذنوبي ، والأخذ بيدي في ديني ودنياي وآخرتي لي ولاخواني وأخواتي المؤمنين والمؤمنات كافة ، إنه غفور رحيم

"I ask You, O My Master to ask the Almighty God for guidance in my matters, and fulfillment of my needs, and the forgiveness of my sins, and taking my hand in my religion and worldly affairs, and hereafter to me and my brothers and sisters all believing men and women, verily He (Allah)is Forgiving, Merciful."

[source: Al Balad Al Ameen Pg. 286, Misbah Kafa'ami Pg. 497]

Here are the words from a Ziyarat to be recited in the month of Rajab. Its known as "Ziyarat e Rajabia"

This has come from the safeer of the 12th Imam (atfs) - Abul Qasim Al-Husain bin Rooh (ra)

Following is what we say to the Imam's (as) in this Ziyarat.

إني قصدتكم و اعتمدتكم بمسألتي و حاجتي و هي فكاك رقبتي من النار و المقر معكم في دار القرار مع شيعتكم الأبرار و السلام عليكم بما صبرتم فنعم عقبى الدار أنا سائلكم و آملكم فيما إليكم التفويض و عليكم التعويض فبكم يجبر المهيض و يشفى المريض

"I seek you, and depend upon you for my questions/issues and my needs and it is to safe my neck from the fire and make me stay with you in the house of award with your Shias. And peace be upon you .. I ask You and hope upon you in that what has been authorized to you and upon you is the compensation as from you and upon you is to cure the patient."

[source: Misbah Al-Mutahajjid, Sheikh Toosi, Pg. 822]

http://www.marefatea...-help-from-imam

your website is amazing mashAllah, keep it updated! Add more stuff!

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