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bobthebuilder

Did Ali Pardon Aisha After The Battle Of Jamal/camel/bassorah

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Ali (as) followed Qur'an to the letter in this matter (as well as every other matter), and he allowed her to return home. However, he said her fate was in the hands of Allah (SWT). This is not the same as forgiveness (definition fo forgiveness: the act of excusing a mistake or offense ).

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Imam Ali (as) was the height of character and dignity. He showed her the respect that any woman should be shown when he had her escorted home. He made it very clear when he mentioned that her fate was Allah's (swt) to decide. If she was not to be blamed or anything else in that vein then he would have said something to the effect that she was pardoned. You don't have to be a rocket scientist to figure out that since he didn't publicly admonish her that it is an allusion to her guilt.

I really don't understand why Sunnis always raise the point of Imam Ali (as) showed her respect and Shias go against his wishes when they curse her. If Sunnis would just use some "aql" and read into what happened its not that hard to figure out that yes he showed her respect when he had her escorted home. That's the respect that any woman should get (even if she is leading an army against the rightful Khalifa, to say nothing of the Vicergent of the Prophet (pbuh) ). Guilty or not, but that's where it ends. Ayesha was told in the Quran to stay home so what was she doing leading an army? Lets not forget the hadith regarding the barking dogs either.

Also, Bobthebuilder are you making an attempt to become Shia or are you just asking Anti-Sunni questions? You seem to be asking a lot of questions on controversial issues but nothing about the Shia fiqh or anything about the fundamentals. What's up?

Edited by Akbar673

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did she make mistake? YES

however, did she apologise? YES

i have heard from Shi'i scholars that he forgave her, pardoned her action and even set up security for her; and he NEVER cursed her.

it was her brother, Muhammad bin Abu Bakr who Imam Ali (as) had loved as his own, and raised and trusted before he was martyred that was very influential in this matter too

none of the TWELVE imams EVER cursed her.

so i reckon its safe to just follow their example

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^ whom did she apologize to? the people who died under her leadership? The ones killed fighting against her? the families of all those killed?

also, can you bring PROOF of the scholars saying she was forgiven?

as for Imam's (as) love for Muhammad ibn Abu Bakr (ra), that has nothing to do with Aisha, as even Muhammad ibn Abu Bakr (ra) fought AGAINST Aisha in these battles... so... I don't quite get your point, as if one person somehow equates to another person just because they are in the same family (let us not foret that even from among the relatives of Prophet (pbuh) were found enemies of Islam. That does not make Prophet (pbuh), or his pious relations, equal in any way to those who were kafir)

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sorry, but you can't flash some speculative and leading questions based on anger then demand proof.

theres no dignity in that, so you need to chillax.

find it yourself, rude.

ps. your comment about "you can't have one person equating to another" is ridiculous; as if someone said her RANK ss this or that. simply just stated the peoplewho influenced.

did not the Prophet (saws) forgive many of the Sahhaba for their intial reactions to Islam, and forgive them?

you make it sound like if someone commits a crime, they can not be forgiven.

so don't even go there, before you even discuss the issue of Aisha and its evidences, you need to establish beliefs correctly, as peopel make MISTAKES and are forgiven.

so you can sort it out.

Edited by i alavi u

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um, excuse me. You're the one that made the claim about scholars saying she was forgiven. I asked for proof of this statement (read the forum specific rules in the pinned section of this forum. claims should not be made that cannot be substantiated with sources). It is not the responsibility of anyone other than the person who made the claim to bring proof to back it up. If you can't do that, then I think the shia/sunni forum is not the place for you to post.

forgiving sahaba to INITIAL reactions to Islam is different than being wife of Prophet (pbuh), muslim for some time, and disobeying Qur'anic ayats that explicitly tell the wives not to leave their houses in a dazzling display, etc. and warns the wives of double punishment for open transgressions, which I THINK leading a war against the rightful caliph is sort of the epitome of HIGH PROFILE DISOBEDIENCE to qur'an. (even sunnis say that it makes a person baghi, rebel)

and yes, one CAN be forgiven, but for forgiveness to be granted one must GENUINELY, SINCERELY REPENT. and part of repentance is changing behaviour and not doing these things again. Instead we see continued animosity between Aisha toward not only Ali (as) but other members of Ahlul Bayt (as). and for forgiveness in this world on this issue, wouldn't PART of it be seeking forgiveness from those PEOPLE she wronged and led into their deaths, or the families of those people?

Edited by Aliya

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..

you make it sound like if someone commits a crime, they can not be forgiven.

so don't even go there, before you even discuss the issue of Aisha and its evidences, you need to establish beliefs correctly, as peopel make MISTAKES and are forgiven.

so you can sort it out.

(salam)

With all due respect , this was much, much more than a mistake. It is a mistake only if you will accept the statement that George Bush made a mistake by invading Iraq and causing the deaths of 100,000 + innocent Iraqis, many children, and has created a schism in Iraqi society that may last for hundreds of years?

Would you accept George Bush to stand up on tv and say, 'I made a mistake by invading Iraq, opps, my bad.'

You wouldn't and noone would because it is much more than a mistake.

What Ayesha did was worse than this because she launched a war based on pure speculation (that Imam Ali (as) was responsible for the killing of Uthman)against a Masoom Imam and a designated sucessor of the Holy Prophet (pbuh) which resulted in the deaths of thousands of muslims and created a schism within the Ummah that has lasted till today. Of course, she was not the only person responsible for the schism, but she surely widened it greatly by her action.

Her reason for going to war was based on pure speculation that turned out to be false, just as Bush's speculation about Iraq having weapons of mass destruction turned out to be false. There is alot of historical parallels, if you care to look.

Actually, Bush had a much stronger case (based on Saddam's past history and some intelligence data) than she did and he attacked a murdering thug whereas Ayesha attacked a masoom Imam. So maybe it is not good to draw too many more comparisons, you might get offended.

Imam Ali (as) had such patience and good manners with people that even his enemies admired him for this, so it doesn't surprise me that he treated her with respect even after this horrendous action of hers. Noone else besides a masoom would display such patience in the face of such an attack. Treating someone with respect and forgiving someone are two seperate things. There is no evidence, that I have ever seen, to say that he forgave her. By her action, she killed the entire ummah(in a spiritual sense). How can you forgive someone for that?

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Was Aisha EVIL or just made very bad errors?

[024:026] Women impure are for men impure, and men impure for women impure and women of purity are for men of purity, and men of purity are for women of purity: these are not affected by what people say: for them there is forgiveness, and a provision honourable.

would the prophet (pbuh) marry an evil woman?

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personally, and this is my PERSONAL OPINION BASED ON MY OWN LIMITED KNOWLEDGE, I think she was somewhere between the two. She seems to have repeatedly committed the same type of errors, or at least based on the same type of flaw (jealousy, pride for herself, her family, her tribe) and these are bad mistakes, and at least in part caused her to be reprimanded in Qur'an for lying to Prophet (pbuh). but the things that lead her toward evil was based in her enmity toward those loved most by Prophet (pbuh) and exalted in status by Allah (SWT) (i.e. Ahlul Bayt (as)).

But her fate is with Allah (SWT) and it is enough that I distance myself from her example. Allah (SWT) knows best if she is or is not included in the curses sent to the enemies of Ahlul Bayt (as), or if she sought and was granted forgiveness for her words and actions against them.

Edited by Aliya

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[024:026] Women impure are for men impure, and men impure for women impure and women of purity are for men of purity, and men of purity are for women of purity: these are not affected by what people say: for them there is forgiveness, and a provision honourable.

would the prophet (pbuh) marry an evil woman?

aisha was not evil when he married her. and she never did zina or ne thing for he to become 'dirty' 'impure' in the sense of this verse

and he (pbuh) put up with her because divorce is hated thing to do in eyes of God but permisable

the problem we have with aisha is what she did near the end of his life and with Ali (as). near the end is the whole thing about getting abu baker to lead prayers

and our major issue is her fighting Ali (as)

Edited by Gangster

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[024:026] Women impure are for men impure, and men impure for women impure and women of purity are for men of purity, and men of purity are for women of purity: these are not affected by what people say: for them there is forgiveness, and a provision honourable.

would the prophet (pbuh) marry an evil woman?

Prophet Nuh (as) clearly did.

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Shakir 66:5] Maybe, his Lord, if he divorce you, will give him in your place wives better than you, submissive, faithful, obedient, penitent, adorers, fasters, widows and virgins.

[Yusufali 66:5] It may be, if he divorced you (all), that Allah will give him in exchange consorts better than you,- who submit (their wills), who believe, who are devout, who turn to Allah in repentance, who worship (in humility), who travel (for Faith) and fast,- previously married or virgins.

[Pickthal 66:5] It may happen that his Lord, if he divorce you, will give him in your stead wives better than you, submissive (to Allah), believing, pious, penitent, devout, inclined to fasting, widows and maids.

[shakir 66:10] Allah sets forth an example to those who disbelieve the wife of Nuh and the wife of Lut: they were both under two of Our righteous servants, but they acted treacherously towards them so they availed them naught against Allah, and it was said: Enter both the fire with those who enter.

[Yusufali 66:10] Allah sets forth, for an example to the Unbelievers, the wife of Noah and the wife of Lut: they were (respectively) under two of our righteous servants, but they were false to their (husbands), and they profited nothing before Allah on their account, but were told: "Enter ye the Fire along with (others) that enter!"

[Pickthal 66:10] Allah citeth an example for those who disbelieve: the wife of Noah and the wife of Lot, who were under two of Our righteous slaves yet betrayed them so that they (the husbands) availed them naught against Allah and it was said (unto them): Enter the Fire along with those who enter.

^ does your ayat mean that the wives of Nuh (as) and Lut (as) were pure, good or righteous, or that the prophets (as) were NOT pure, good, or righteous since their wives were treacherous, or that Aisha and Hafsa are NOT the ones reprimanded and told that they could be divorced and replaced with BETTER wives in the first ayat?

Edited by Aliya

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imam forgave EVERYONE [except one man ] after Jamal so this favor was not unique to aisha alone

imam even forgave the sons of talha and gave them their father's inheritence and the ungrateful wretches turned out to be the worst enemies of his supporters

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What about the treatment towards Ibn Muljim (LA).

The trend i am seeing in Imam Ali (A.S) life was that he was forgiving towards his personal enemies but not when it came to Islam or the Prophet (Saww). This is my personal opinion

Amazingly we are harsh towards our own enemies indulging in backbiting, cursing and use of fists but when it comes to the enemies of our Leader, We wanna leave their wrongful action to the justice of Allah

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Salam Alaikum

With examples set by Abu Bakr and Umar and Khalid after the death of the Prophet , I am not surprised that the Sunnis do not understand Imam Ali's [a] respect towards Aishah and his other enemies.

The Hashemis and their supporters hadn't even unsheathed their swords when the house of Fatimah [a] was burnt (or at least threatened to be burnt) by their illustrious leaders, so they probably expected Imam Ali [a] to do something along the same lines.

Wassalam

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Even if Ayesha was 'forgiven' by Imam Ali (A) after the Battle of Jamal, her acts after that, annul the forgiveness like doing Sajdah of thanks after hearing Imam Ali's (A) martyrdom and ordering the manhandling of the body of Imam Hasan (A) [that is, arrows were shot at his dead body on her command when Imam Hussain (A) and his companions were taking the body for burial].

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[024:026] Women impure are for men impure, and men impure for women impure and women of purity are for men of purity, and men of purity are for women of purity: these are not affected by what people say: for them there is forgiveness, and a provision honourable.

would the prophet (pbuh) marry an evil woman?

This ayat is talking specifically about the sin of zina(adultry). Ayesha didn't do this particular sin, so the ayat doesn't apply to the discussion we are currently having on this thread.

Edited by Abu Hadi

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Look at her actions and decide for yourself. As the saying goes, 'Actions speak louder than words'.

sorry man, but its almost as if you feel you can judge her like God.

and b.) you have very little value of Allah's mercy.

Prophet (pbuh) taught us that Allah can forgive anything but shirk (IF THE PERSON APOLOGISES)

so you said about Bush, if he declare SHahada and say SORRY

you are DAMN sure i would forgive him, cus Almighty said he can forgive.

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^ where is the evidence that she said sorry? Is there evidence of this remorse in her actions? One cannot say she is 100% guranteed forgiven, or not, but one CAN say: where is the evidence of her remorse? her seeking forgiveness for her actions? ACTIONS ARE the things we CAN/MUST judge when looking at whom to take as examples to follow, and who to distance ourselves from.

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