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Maula Dha Mallang

Khalid Bin Waleed

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do shias believe he was one of the greatest generals in history, since he was one of the less than 5 men who never lost a single battle (hence sunnis revere him) even though he was a rapist and a murderer?

im not asking if he was a nice bloke and good muslim...im asking should shias aknowlegde that he was a good general? in fact an amazing general?

secondly

was there any contact between him and maula ali (as) - undeniably the REAL lion of Allah, what did maula ali (as) or any of the imams say about him?

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do shias believe he was one of the greatest generals in history, since he was one of the less than 5 men who never lost a single battle (hence sunnis revere him) even though he was a rapist and a murderer?

im not asking if he was a nice bloke and good muslim...im asking should shias aknowlegde that he was a good general? in fact an amazing general?

secondly

was there any contact between him and maula ali (as) - undeniably the REAL lion of Allah, what did maula ali (as) or any of the imams say about him?

Well, as you mentioned he certainly wasn't a nice bloke. He was there to help burn the house of Imam Ali (as) and Lady Fatima (as), killed Shias during the Ridda Wars, raped a widow, etc. As far as his military abilities go it appears that he was pretty good at being a general. Ironic though that Umar released him from duty for not following Islamic laws.

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i think so, then raped his wife. sunnis say he married her even though he didnt observe her iddat period i.e. rape

is it true though? that he never lost a single battle? not even alexander the great, julius ceaser, hell i cant think of ANYONE who never lost a battle, can it be true?!?! and if so, why?

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Wasn't this Khalid person the guy who murdered Malik bin Navera and slashed the Quran into two?

i think so, then raped his wife. sunnis say he married her even though he didnt observe her iddat period i.e. rape

is it true though? that he never lost a single battle? not even alexander the great, julius ceaser, hell i cant think of ANYONE who never lost a battle, can it be true?!?! and if so, why?

There are plenty of other crimes to the credit of this mala'oon

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do sunnis love him for the reason he was a shia killer?

I don't think so, may be its written in their books that he brave and blah blah blah and I think I have even read some in our course books that he was liked a lot by the Prophet (saww) - ofcourse I doubt that. Can someone put up a complete authentic list of all the bad Khalid Bin Waleed did? Plus did anyone gave him the Laqab of "Saifullah - Sword of Allah" ???????????????

Edited by The Patri0t

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i think so, then raped his wife. sunnis say he married her even though he didnt observe her iddat period i.e. rape

is it true though? that he never lost a single battle? not even alexander the great, julius ceaser, hell i cant think of ANYONE who never lost a battle, can it be true?!?! and if so, why?

He never lost a battle because he would take a fully equipped and trained army against ill equipped villagers. He never lost because it was like a giant battling a child. His army was trained while his opponents were just villagers who didn't want to pay taxes anymore. The battles were basically slaughters. That's why he never lost anything.

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as far as i know khalid bin walid was a great general n had turned muslim .... hence there is no need to say bad of any muslim..... no one is born perfect except for our prophet HAZRAT mohammad (p.B.U.H)....

secondly do u think we as muslim r worthy to judge any other muslim... do u think we r perfect muslims?

Only Allah knows best n only HE is to judge not We.......

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(salam)

It is the belief of us Shia that ALL 14 of our m'aasumeen were born perfect.

Wasalam

Hazrat mohammad (p.b.u.h) was our LAST messenger from Allah the 14 imams (may Allah be pleased with them ) were NOt Prophets....... they were the descendents of our Prophet Mohammad (p.b.u.h) family..... they have their respect their place as the Descendants but still they cant reach the level of Prophethood.....

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Hazrat mohammad (p.b.u.h) was our LAST messenger from Allah the 14 imams (may Allah be pleased with them ) were NOt Prophets....... they were the descendents of our Prophet Mohammad (p.b.u.h) family..... they have their respect their place as the Descendants but still they cant reach the level of Prophethood.....

(salam)

You are skirting the issue.

She said it is the belief of us Shia that 14 M'aasumin are perfect. That means Hazrat Mohammad, His blessed and only saughter, Bibi Sayyeda Fatima, and the 12 Imams, [not 14] with Hazrat Ali as the 1st. Do you agree that all these 14 are perfect creations of Allah.

Shedid not, in any way, compare the staus of Prophethood with the status of Imamat.

wasalam

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(salam)

You are skirting the issue.

She said it is the belief of us Shia that 14 M'aasumin are perfect. That means Hazrat Mohammad, His blessed and only saughter, Bibi Sayyeda Fatima, and the 12 Imams, [not 14] with Hazrat Ali as the 1st. Do you agree that all these 14 are perfect creations of Allah.

Shedid not, in any way, compare the staus of Prophethood with the status of Imamat.

wasalam

and i said perfection ( while being Human ) ONLY belongs to our Hazrat mohammad (p.b.u.h)as he was a PROPHET ...

but imaams have their well placed great respect still they were normal human beings ..... n no where in Quraan has it been stated that the Imams(may Allah be pleased with them ) r completely PERFECT yes they might be very PIOUS... but PERFECt.... i dont know .........

Only Prophet Hazrat Mohammad (p.b.u.h) was a PERFECT human being that is y Allah made him the LAST PROPHET for us .. to give us the BEST example of how a human shud lead his life thru sunnah of Hazrat Mohammad (p.b.u.h) ,otherwise if there were other human beings AS PERFECT as our Prophet MOhammad(p.b.u.h) then wht difference wud be left b/w a Prophet and any other human being or may it be his descendents (which have their own respect ) ....

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and i said perfection ( while being Human ) ONLY belongs to our Hazrat mohammad (p.b.u.h)as he was a PROPHET ...

but imaams have their well placed great respect still they were normal human beings ..... n no where in Quraan has it been stated that the Imams(may Allah be pleased with them ) r completely PERFECT yes they might be very PIOUS... but PERFECt.... i dont know .........

Only Prophet Hazrat Mohammad (p.b.u.h) was a PERFECT human being that is y Allah made him the LAST PROPHET for us .. to give us the BEST example of how a human shud lead his life thru sunnah of Hazrat Mohammad (p.b.u.h) ,otherwise if there were other human beings AS PERFECT as our Prophet MOhammad(p.b.u.h) then wht difference wud be left b/w a Prophet and any other human being or may it be his descendents (which have their own respect ) ....

If you don't know, you should exercise restraint in posting comments on such subjects.

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If you don't know, you should exercise restraint in posting comments on such subjects.

by I DONT KNOW i mean NO and iv given the reason too......hope im clear now....

Edited by "HaZeL"

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and i said perfection ( while being Human ) ONLY belongs to our Hazrat mohammad (p.b.u.h)as he was a PROPHET ...

but imaams have their well placed great respect still they were normal human beings ..... n no where in Quraan has it been stated that the Imams(may Allah be pleased with them ) r completely PERFECT yes they might be very PIOUS... but PERFECt.... i dont know .........

Only Prophet Hazrat Mohammad (p.b.u.h) was a PERFECT human being that is y Allah made him the LAST PROPHET for us .. to give us the BEST example of how a human shud lead his life thru sunnah of Hazrat Mohammad (p.b.u.h) ,otherwise if there were other human beings AS PERFECT as our Prophet MOhammad(p.b.u.h) then wht difference wud be left b/w a Prophet and any other human being or may it be his descendents (which have their own respect ) ....

Are you comparing our Imams to the average (pious but maybe not perfect) human?

Edited by Sky

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and i said perfection ( while being Human ) ONLY belongs to our Hazrat mohammad (p.b.u.h)as he was a PROPHET ...

but imaams have their well placed great respect still they were normal human beings ..... n no where in Quraan has it been stated that the Imams(may Allah be pleased with them ) r completely PERFECT yes they might be very PIOUS... but PERFECt.... i dont know .........

Only Prophet Hazrat Mohammad (p.b.u.h) was a PERFECT human being that is y Allah made him the LAST PROPHET for us .. to give us the BEST example of how a human shud lead his life thru sunnah of Hazrat Mohammad (p.b.u.h) ,otherwise if there were other human beings AS PERFECT as our Prophet MOhammad(p.b.u.h) then wht difference wud be left b/w a Prophet and any other human being or may it be his descendents (which have their own respect ) ....

by I DONT KNOW i mean NO and iv given the reason too......hope im clear now....

Then you make it clear by saying that they are NOT perfect?

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by I DONT KNOW i mean NO and iv given the reason too......hope im clear now....

^

Well, anyway, the Topic Starter meant this topic to be about Khalid bin Waleed. I will just state that the perfection of the Aimmah-e-Ithna Ashar is proven by Quran and Hadeeth and let it rest at that. There's plenty of material about this on ShiaChat if you want to research. Aliya the Moderator can also be a big help.

Back to Khalid bin Waleed and his imperfections . . .

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^

Well, anyway, the Topic Starter meant this topic to be about Khalid bin Waleed. I will just state that the perfection of the Aimmah-e-Ithna Ashar is proven by Quran and Hadeeth and let it rest at that. There's plenty of material about this on ShiaChat if you want to research. Aliya the Moderator can also be a big help.

Back to Khalid bin Waleed and his imperfections . . .

b4 stating imperfections of some other muslim y not look at ones own self... we aint PERFECt r we? thn who r we to post imperfections of some one else?

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b4 stating imperfections of some other muslim y not look at ones own self... we aint PERFECt r we? thn who r we to post imperfections of some one else?

We are discussing a historic personage, believing whom to be good, etc. etc. can lead others to emulate him. Do you want the world to be even more full of fisq o fujoor than it is already?

Listen, let us be clear on something. I am using civil, polite words for this person simply becuae of two reasons:

1. I am a civilized person

2. The forums rules do not allow one to call a spade a spade.

He deserves condemnation in the most strong language a muslimah can be capable of.

Have I made my point of view understood?

Edited by Rawshni

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We are discussing a historic personage, believing whom to be good, etc. etc. can lead others to emulate him. Do you want the world to be even more full of fisq o fujoor than it is already?

Listen, let us be clear on something. I am using civil, polite words for this person simply becuae of two reasons:

1. I am a civilized person

2. The forums rules do not allow one to call a spade a spade.

He deserves condemnation in the most strong language a muslimah can be capable of.

Have I made my point of view understood?

its ur civil right to say wht U think is right i cant stop u go on but im stating mine!....

... So when talking about past events u have to tell the whole story not just stick on one point ...

and as far as im looking all of the posts here say he was a bad human being" BEFORE" he bcame a muslim ... y not ALSO tell wht sort a person he was AFTER he bcame muslim .. y just stick in one era?

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being a good general alone is purely a worldly quality if accompanied by bad conduct ...meaningless in the eyes of Islam.

there is no doubt that he killed malik b nuwaira in coldblood i am less convinced that he[ibn nuwaira] was a shia of Ali though

was he a good cavalry commander? yes surely he must have been there is no other way to explain his victories...are his attributes exaggeratted due to abubakr's preference for him? definately....many other good commanders like Numan b muqqarin who was a early companion but virtually unknown as a sahabi helped to conquer most of persia...khalid's being undefeated is not just his personal triumph but that of all muslim generals collectively.if we look at why umar dismissed him we see that umar wanted to dispel the notion that islam's victories had anything to do with khalid's personality alone and sure enough islam's march foward continued as as before even without khalid

regarding his relations with Imam Ali I have not read anything specific except for the fact that Khalid's one son fought with Imam Ali in all his battles and other one with muawiyah[he was later poisened by muawiyah]

Edited by Panzerwaffe

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its ur civil right to say wht U think is right i cant stop u go on but im stating mine!....

... So when talking about past events u have to tell the whole story not just stick on one point ...

and as far as im looking all of the posts here say he was a bad human being" BEFORE" he bcame a muslim ... y not ALSO tell wht sort a person he was AFTER he bcame muslim .. y just stick in one era?

(salam)

He murdered Maalik bin Navera, slashed the Quran into two, raped Maalik bin Naver's wife after he had professed Islam, even after the shahdat of Rasool Allah.

And this is just the tip of the iceberg

Wassalaam

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plz read this ....

Malik ibn Nuwayrah and the massacre of his tribe:

During the Ridda wars, Abu Bakr sent Khalid into Najd with 4000 men. Many clans of Banu Tamim hastened to visit Khalid, but the Banu Yarbu' - a branch of Bani Tamim - under its chief, Malik ibn Nuwayrah, hung back.

Malik was a chief of some distinction; a warrior, noted for his generosity; and a famous poet. Bravery, generosity and poetry were the three qualities most admired among the Arabs. Malik ordered his followers to scatter and he himself apparently moved away across the desert with his family. Abū Bakr had given orders that the test to be applied to suspected rebels was that they be asked to repeat the Muslim formula and that they answer the call to prayer[citations needed].

Malik was guilty for his acts against the state of Madinah. After the death of Muhammad, he broke in open revolt against Madinah. At the time of Muhammad, he had been appointed as a Tax collector for the Tribe of Banu Tamim. As soon as Malik heard of the death of Muhammad, he gave back all the tax to his tribespeople, saying that "Now you are the owner of your wealth".[7]

Moreover he was to be charged because he signed a pact with the self-proclaimed prophet Sajjah. This agreement stated that first they would deal with local enemy tribes together, and then they would confront the state of Madinah. [8] When Malik heard about Khalid bin Walid's victories against powerful Arab tribes, he ordered his tribesmen not to engage the approaching Khalid in battle, to stay at home, and hope for peace. [9] Also, so as to prove him self loyal to state of Madinah (the future Islamic empire), he collected the Tax and sent it to Madinah. His riders were stopped by Khalid's army at the town of Battah. Khalid asked them about the signing of pact with Sajjah they said it was just because they wanted revenge against their terrible enemies. [10] When Khalid reached Najd he found no opposing army, so he sent his cavalry to near by villages and ordered them to call the Azaan (call for prayers) to each party they meet. Zirrar bin Azwar, a group leader, arrested the family of Malik claiming they did not answer the call to prayer. When arrested, Malik was asked by Khalid about his crimes. Khalid's interpretation of Malik's response was "your master said this your master said that" (referring to Muhammad). Khalid understood this to be a transparent attempt by Malik to save his own life by any means at his disposal. Khalid declared Malik an apostate and ordered his execution. [11] Khalid ordered Malik's killing because he knew that Malik had betrayed the Islamic state of Madinah. The same night, Khalid married Malik's widow Layla, one of the most beautiful women ever recorded in Arabia[citations needed].

[edit] The last threat

After the incident of Malik ibn Nuwayrah, Caliph Abu Bakr sent Khalid to crush the most powerful threat to the nascent Islamic state of Medina: another self proclaimed prophet, Musailima. Khalid won a decisive victory against Musailima in the Battle of Yamama, which was fought in the 3rd week of December, 632 CE. With the defeat of Musailima, nearly all resistance of the rebel tribes collapsed.

i took this info from here....

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Khalid_ibn_al-Walid#Shia_views

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Our lodestar is animosity to the Ahle-Bayt. Any person who exhibited any animosity to the Ahle-Bayt is a mal'aoon in my book.

Simple, and understandable, isn;t it?

i agree 100% with you bro without any doubt. thats why it troubles me when i see sunnis revering him as some super general. i just want to know WHY we hate him, and WHY he won so many, with as many reasons as possible.

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