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Mahdiyah

Hand Or Spoon !

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your always copying my words- u get me blud :!!!:

can i ask what is wrong with you? i have NO intention of copying any of your posts....i dont like ur posts enoough to be copying them :(

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He said we were invited for dinner and there, everyone used spoon except one Paki Doctor, people sitting there were like what are you doing. He goes on, what? He took up the spoon and said, I don't know who washed this, how was this washed then where was it put then he showed his hands and said I washed these just like a minute ago and I am sure there's no germs on them left so I prefer my hands. Thank you!

I would have told him he didn't know where did the water come from, the pipes it came through might have been infested with worms, and the towel he wiped hands on might have not been very clean and so on.

Really, if we start being paranoid like this, there is almost nothing that can suit our extraordinary hygiene standards.

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I would have told him he didn't know where did the water come from, the pipes it came through might have been infested with worms, and the towel he wiped hands on might have not been very clean and so on.

Really, if we start being paranoid like this, there is almost nothing that can suit our extraordinary hygiene standards.

It wasn't Africa :P

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Guest Maram

Spoon, only use a fork if i'm eating out. I tried to eat with my hands once in Iraq but it didn't work out lol, it's hard to use your hand :unsure:

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Guest Mahreen
the desi way- hands for rice and bread

fork-pasta, noodles(who uses chopsticks) :rolleyes:

spoon-deserts

eat with hand majority of the time..desi style...
can i ask what is wrong with you? i have NO intention of copying any of your posts....i dont like ur posts enoough to be copying them :(

:Hijabi: Anyways it was a joke and whats wrong with me? :wacko:

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Salaam.

I can undersand one eating certain foods with a spoon as it is more practical eq soup, yogurt etc. But sometimes when one can eat more comfortably with their hands and they use cutlery instead makes it silly ie eating naan or bread with folk and knife. Cutlery was invented to to aid the hands and not vice versa. Using hands is my first and foremost choice. I will use a spoon and folk when the dish is sloppy one like ice-cream, thus makes sense to use cutlery rather than making sense to not use. I hope I made sense!

W/S

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It wasn't Africa :P

Are you saying that Africans drink sewer water? :shifty:

Anyways, if it wasn't Africa why was he doubting the cooks to have handled the spoons 'the African way'?

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Eating with the hands has been praised in hadith and eating utensils were present at the time of Rasool but cars and cell phones were not. So the comparison is ridiculous.

I have not come across any hadith where eating with the hands has been preferred over eating with utensils. The only one that comes to mind is the one where we are asked to break of pieces of bread with our hands. But that is limited only to bread, and that too, to tearing it up, not eating it. Which ahadith are you referring to?

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The poll doesn't make sense.

To everyone who said they they use spoon/forks and not their hands; don't you use your hands to hold your spoon or fork or whatever? Or maybe the spoon/fork miraculously feeds you itself?

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How about spoon and hand?

lol even better! nah it depends if theres no spoon, then hand is what i use and if there is spoon available then i use it although if i'm in the desi style mood i use my hands loool

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^I think I heard that somewhere, like about the prophet (pbuh) saying that for using his hands while eating. Not sure tho. :unsure:

I heard that story about some famous scholar, though I can't remember his name now.

lol So was it the paki doc, the prophet or the alim?

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(salam)

I can't imagine how one can eat nihari/paya/other salan with a fork/spoon. (I've seen some pple eat PIZZA with a fork and knife!!!)

I use my hands. Even for rice I eat with my hands. But at work, I've got to use a spoon for the rice.

But like hussainak mentioned above.... eating from my moms hands is the best... haven't done that in so long... :(

Thx for the idea, i'll eat from her hands today! :wub:

kudha hafiz.

Whats wrong with eating a pizza with a knife and fork..i do that :angel: ...It depends what it is but i mostly eat with spoon..knife & fork

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Salaam

heh, how can one eat with spoon and FOLK!! ;)

You must eat with "folk" around; it is makrooh to eat by yourself.

:P

That was getting on my nerves too :squeez:

I have not come across any hadith where eating with the hands has been preferred over eating with utensils. The only one that comes to mind is the one where we are asked to break of pieces of bread with our hands. But that is limited only to bread, and that too, to tearing it up, not eating it. Which ahadith are you referring to?

If you are strictly asking for aHadeeth, I can't be bothered with them, reference and all. But there are some mentioned online from the Ahl al Sunnah.

Anyhow, the recommendation of using hands for eating is very much in your marja`'s risalah:

Eating Manners

2645. * There are certain Mustahab rules to be observed while taking a meal; they are as follows:

(vi) One should eat using three or more fingers and should not eat with two fingers only.

(xii) One should lick one's fingers clean after taking food.

http://al-islam.org/laws/hunting.html#2645

Zahraa

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The poll doesn't make sense.

To everyone who said they they use spoon/forks and not their hands; don't you use your hands to hold your spoon or fork or whatever? Or maybe the spoon/fork miraculously feeds you itself?

I thought it was common sense thats why most fellows have understood.

Edited by Mahdiyah

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spoon all the time , fork if eating a pasta

few times i was invited for lunch at friends house and they don't tend to use the spoon when eating rice so i was forced to eat with my hands and i was just using two finigers coz i don't know how to eat without a spoon , the lady then saw me and started laughing at me :blush: then they brought a spoon for me

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Anyhow, the recommendation of using hands for eating is very much in your marja`'s risalah:

http://al-islam.org/laws/hunting.html#2645

Zahraa

that is not a preference of hands over cutlery. these points just state that if we are using our hands, we should use three, not two, fingers, and that we should lick our fingers clean. there was no cutlery in arabia 1400 years ago, so there is no proper islamic comparison between eating with finger or with cutlery.

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one time my mom told me that old people sometimes break roti pieces and put them in nihari and eat it with a spoon

i tried it and it actually was easier than eating with my hands

but it was a lot less funner :P

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Fork and knife for almost everything.

With breads I like to use my hands, but I used to even eat pizza with a fork and knife.

Spoons are used with liquidy foods, like broth or soup.

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that is not a preference of hands over cutlery. these points just state that if we are using our hands, we should use three, not two, fingers, and that we should lick our fingers clean.

Playing with words now, are we? It is actually very silly that you pick out just what I listed without paying attention to what it is listed under:

Etiquettes of Eating:

2645. * There are certain Mustahab rules to be observed while taking a meal; they are as follows:

there was no cutlery in arabia 1400 years ago, so there is no proper islamic comparison between eating with finger or with cutlery.

IF this statement is true (while it is indeed NOT), why did you not tell Hasan Sajjad so when he stated that cutlery was present in the time of the Prophet (saww)?

As to making comparisons, do you not know that it is only what was practised by the ma`Sumeen (as) that can be classified as mustaHabb (if it is)? If there is nothing about the use of cutlery for eating except the kurhah of using the knife to cut anything on your plate, it can be safely said that it is not encouraged; at the most it is allowed/ mubah.

Also, in fiqh, if the istiHbaab of the intricate details of a thing is established, the use of the thing itself is understood as mustaHabb.

NOw your claim is preposterous for reasons mentioned below:

- One of the two basic premises in deriving rulings in Islamic shari`ah is that everything is Halal until proven Haram, and what is Halal cannot be classified as makruh until there is reliable evidence in its favour.

Now, to use a knife to cut bread down into bite-sized pieces is makruh.

Similarly to use a knife to cut down many other things into bite-size pieces instead of using hands to break them down such as watermelon (it can be cut into wedges and then directly bitten into), flesh is also "makruh" in aHadith.

Is knife cutlery?

- Meat was commonly taken as food by the Arabs. Perhaps the butchers were using swords to slaughter the animals and then cut down the flesh and bones? :unsure:

- There are incidents recorded of sweet dishes being prepared in a pot and the dish was being stirred.

- How were individual portions served after having been cooked in a bigger vessel?

The Prophet (pbuh) said:

There are twelve qualities regarding the table a Muslim must learn; four of them are obligatory, four of them are customary and four of them are good manners.

As for the obligatory, they are: Knowing what is being eaten, pronouncing the name of God (by saying ‘Bismillah’), thankfulness and contentment.

The customary ones are: Sitting on the left leg, eating with three fingers, eating from what is next to you and sucking the fingers.

The good manners are: Taking smaller bites, chewing hard, minimal looking at other people’s faces and washing the hands.

[Reference: Al-KhiSaal by Shaykh Saduq(ar)]

Imam al-RiDa (a.s.) said:

Do not cut bread with the knife, but rather break it with the hand, be different from the Non-Arabs.”

[Reference: Al-Wasaa'il, from the book of foods and drinks]

Usage of cutlery for anything and everything in a dish is a Western import; and the Hadith about not imitating the non-Arabs (is usually synonymous to non-Muslims) in any of their mannerisms is well-known.

Anyway, just to make sure, I have asked regarding this matter and have been told that it is mustaHabb to eat with the hands (fingers). For anyone who needs written confirmation of the same, it will be sometime before I receive a response from Sayyid Seestani (ha)'s office.

Was salaam

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Guest shiaan e wali

(bismillah)(salam)

Playing with words now, are we? It is actually very silly that you pick out just what I listed without paying attention to what it is listed under:

IF this statement is true (while it is indeed NOT), why did you not tell Hasan Sajjad so when he stated that cutlery was present in the time of the Prophet (saww)?

As to making comparisons, do you not know that it is only what was practised by the ma`Sumeen (as) that can be classified as mustaHabb (if it is)? If there is nothing about the use of cutlery for eating except the kurhah of using the knife to cut anything on your plate, it can be safely said that it is not encouraged; at the most it is allowed/ mubah.

Also, in fiqh, if the istiHbaab of the intricate details of a thing is established, the use of the thing itself is understood as mustaHabb.

NOw your claim is preposterous for reasons mentioned below:

- One of the two basic premises in deriving rulings in Islamic shari`ah is that everything is Halal until proven Haram, and what is Halal cannot be classified as makruh until there is reliable evidence in its favour.

Now, to use a knife to cut bread down into bite-sized pieces is makruh.

Similarly to use a knife to cut down many other things into bite-size pieces instead of using hands to break them down such as watermelon (it can be cut into wedges and then directly bitten into), flesh is also "makruh" in aHadith.

Is knife cutlery?

- Meat was commonly taken as food by the Arabs. Perhaps the butchers were using swords to slaughter the animals and then cut down the flesh and bones? :unsure:

- There are incidents recorded of sweet dishes being prepared in a pot and the dish was being stirred.

- How were individual portions served after having been cooked in a bigger vessel?

The Prophet (pbuh) said:

�There are twelve qualities regarding the table a Muslim must learn; four of them are obligatory, four of them are customary and four of them are good manners.

As for the obligatory, they are: Knowing what is being eaten, pronouncing the name of God (by saying �Bismillah�), thankfulness and contentment.

The customary ones are: Sitting on the left leg, eating with three fingers, eating from what is next to you and sucking the fingers.

The good manners are: Taking smaller bites, chewing hard, minimal looking at other people�s faces and washing the hands.�

[Reference: Al-KhiSaal by Shaykh Saduq(ar)]

Imam al-RiDa (a.s.) said:

� Do not cut bread with the knife, but rather break it with the hand, be different from the Non-Arabs.�

[Reference: Al-Wasaa'il, from the book of foods and drinks]

Usage of cutlery for anything and everything in a dish is a Western import; and the Hadith about not imitating the non-Arabs (is usually synonymous to non-Muslims) in any of their mannerisms is well-known.

Anyway, just to make sure, I have asked regarding this matter and have been told that it is mustaHabb to eat with the hands (fingers). For anyone who needs written confirmation of the same, it will be sometime before I receive a response from Sayyid Seestani (ha)'s office.

Was salaam

JazakAllah sis for having posted all that you have. I learned somethings that I hadn't known, and confirmed some that I learned long ago.

As for myself, I prefer cutlery in restaurants with meals that don't include breads other then small rolls, etc [meals that inlude pasta or rice, or other similar items). At home, however, it's hands if I'm feeding myself, or cutlery if I'm sharing my plate with the kids.

As for my children, they usually use cutlery (spoons mostly) with rice dishes and hubby always uses his hands for rice dishes weather at home or outside (mosque, restaurant, someone else's place, etc). He'll even down some pasta with his hands if he finds the fork incooperative. However if we're at a place where washing the hands right after lunch/dinner is not possible then we all use fork/spoons.

Edited by shiaan e wali

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i use a Spoon ... but whn i was small i used to eat with my hand it was fun actually... il try eating with my hand again ... food actually tastes yummier this way ..:D

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It is actually very silly that you pick out just what I listed without paying attention to what it is listed under:

yes, i am aware of what it is listed under.

why did you not tell Hasan Sajjad so when he stated that cutlery was present in the time of the Prophet (saww)?

didn't see the need.

do you not know that it is only what was practised by the ma`Sumeen (as) that can be classified as mustaHabb (if it is)?

yes, i do.

If there is nothing about the use of cutlery for eating except the kurhah of using the knife to cut anything on your plate, it can be safely said that it is not encouraged; at the most it is allowed/ mubah.

1. it is only makrooh to cut bread with a knife, not anything.

2. it has not been stated that eating with the hands it mustahab. just because the ahlulbayt did it, does not make it so.

so there are two options. either cutlery existed at that time. or it didn't. if it existed, then is there any hadith stating that eating without cutlery is preferred to eating with it? if it didn't, then the assertion that eating with the hands is preferred over eating with cutlery is invalid, since this could not have been stated by the ahlulbayt.

NOw your claim is preposterous for reasons mentioned below:

- One of the two basic premises in deriving rulings in Islamic shari`ah is that everything is Halal until proven Haram, and what is Halal cannot be classified as makruh until there is reliable evidence in its favour.

wow! great first reason for why eating without cutlery is preferred to eating with cutlery. :wacko:

Similarly to use a knife to cut down many other things into bite-size pieces instead of using hands to break them down such as watermelon (it can be cut into wedges and then directly bitten into), flesh is also "makruh" in aHadith.

ahadith are irrelevant. which marj'a or scholar states that using a knife for cutting other types of food (besides bread) is makrooh?

Is knife cutlery?

yes, it is.

- Meat was commonly taken as food by the Arabs. Perhaps the butchers were using swords to slaughter the animals and then cut down the flesh and bones? :unsure:

even better second reason. :wacko:

- There are incidents recorded of sweet dishes being prepared in a pot and the dish was being stirred.

ummm . . . you should check up the meaning of the word "reason" in a dictionary. you're just saying random things and trying to pass them off as "reasons".

- How were individual portions served after having been cooked in a bigger vessel?

and this question is another "reason"???

The Prophet (pbuh) said:

There are twelve qualities regarding the table a Muslim must learn; four of them are obligatory, four of them are customary and four of them are good manners.

As for the obligatory, they are: Knowing what is being eaten, pronouncing the name of God (by saying ‘Bismillah’), thankfulness and contentment.

The customary ones are: Sitting on the left leg, eating with three fingers, eating from what is next to you and sucking the fingers.

The good manners are: Taking smaller bites, chewing hard, minimal looking at other people’s faces and washing the hands.

[Reference: Al-KhiSaal by Shaykh Saduq(ar)]

already aware of this.

Usage of cutlery for anything and everything in a dish is a Western import; and the Hadith about not imitating the non-Arabs (is usually synonymous to non-Muslims) in any of their mannerisms is well-known.

what about using computers or a car or the english language? these are all western imports as well.

so much for the "reasons".

it will be sometime before I receive a response from Sayyid Seestani (ha)'s office.

yes, please post the reply when you get it. i would like to see the official stance of a marj'a.

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didn't see the need.

so essentially you were just trying to belittle him by asking him to provide a Hadith while you "knew" that there couldn't be any because of what you claimed with such certainty.

yes, i do.

ah! and despite your claim, you are asking for comparisons?

1. it is only makrooh to cut bread with a knife, not anything.

Yes anything on your plate, according to aHadith. And this is the book (Arabic) for it-->

http://www.rafed.net/books/aam/teb-nabi/

and the aHadith listed have been found to be veracious (I won't be sending any e-mail to the marja`; for any apprehensions that you may have (which noticing your obstinacy and tendency to indulge in frivolous argumentation, I don't doubt one bit that you will), you can e-mail the marja` yourself).

2. it has not been stated that eating with the hands it mustahab. just because the ahlulbayt did it, does not make it so.

Just because YOU are ignorant of any tradition in this regard, does not mean it is not stated anywhere. And I never said that because something is practised by the infallibles, it necessarily becomes mustaHabb; I just said for a thing to be mustaHabb, it HAS to have its basis in the practice of the Ahl al Bayt (as) (addition: or in an act that may not have been practised by them but was lauded by them).

if it existed, then is there any hadith stating that eating without cutlery is preferred to eating with it?

for a thing to be recommended, it is not necessary that there be a comparison made between it and another, in a tradition. It will be enough that the thing itself is emphasised while there is nothing stated about any other.

wow! great first reason for why eating without cutlery is preferred to eating with cutlery. :wacko:

Hello! Are you stressed out? Are you having exams or something?

Do you even remember what you had claimed. Let me quote if for you:

there was no cutlery in arabia 1400 years ago,

^ That was your claim. That is what I have reasoned against.

ahadith are irrelevant. which marj'a or scholar states that using a knife for cutting other types of food (besides bread) is makrooh?

What??? You are completely losing it. Do you realise that there have to be aHadith for that marja` too, from whom you seek authentication, to give a ruling in favour or against? Or are you taking those for maraaje` who have a tendency to whip up rulings out of thin air?

Geez!

And why do you have such a negative approach towards acceptance of aHadith in such matters? it is neither a matter of Haram or Halal, nor of wujub. You have some phobia about using your hands to touch food or what?

And since you are so hell-bent on a marja`'s fatwa, I'll take the trouble to get a written reply in this regard too.

even better second reason. :wacko:

It sure is.

ummm . . . you should check up the meaning of the word "reason" in a dictionary. you're just saying random things and trying to pass them off as "reasons".

I do very well (know the meaning); please acquaint yourself with the same if you are having trouble understanding its meaning. One link is provided, you can take your pick from the many which are available online or offline.

http://dictionary.reference.com/search?q=%20reason

and this question is another "reason"???

YOU ought to read your claim again.

what about using computers or a car or the english language? these are all western imports as well.

Acquisition of knowledge, maximising usage of and saving time, and imparting knowledge to people is emphasised and some of it wajib. There is no barrier to using what might assist you in your daily affairs to keep up with advancing times. There is also no obstacle to using such things as might be easily available in your area, if what is sunnah is not. You cannot just choose something of a Hadith which acts to your advantage, without looking at others, which have to be taken into consideration and which hold priority over the other.

so much for the "reasons".

So much for your memory power (especially remembering your own statements) and your comprehension skills.

yes, please post the reply when you get it.

I will, insha'Allah, though seeing the useless response I got from the Imam Ali Foundation (they just replied with the rulings in the TauDeeH, despite my clear, carefully worded question regarding the matter), it will probably take longer than usual.

i would like to see the official stance of a marj'a.

The official stance is what I have already stated. I am not given to passing off personal opinions as Islamic. that you wish to insult me (and in this case also malign my character) is neither unexpected nor does it rattle me; what does is your thinly-veiled attempt at the same.

But I guess some people have a really hard time adopting at least one of the akhlaqi virtues enumerated by their leaders.

Edit: And it isn't exactly unanticipated that you have overlooked one of the other statements that I made, which is an inherent part of the jurisprudential system -->

"Also, in fiqh, if the istiHbaab of the intricate details of a thing is established, the use of the thing itself is understood as mustaHabb."

Was salaam

Edited by phoenix

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Guest shiaan e wali

(bismillah)(salam)

^

Bleeding Hell!

Innit?

Don't bang your head against the wall, sis. @ Mr Fyst's posts.

Edited by shiaan e wali

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hands and by this i mean my fingers and not palms like some people do-i find this somali style of eating with palms sick. if i need to use cutlery its normally spoon because folk takes too long for me except if the food needs picking at then i use folk.

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