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In the Name of God بسم الله

Being Australian & Cronulla Riots


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Salammm :D

I would appreciate it if anyone could answer the following questions but on the lane of sociology. :D

Are some ethnic groups in australia more 'Australian' than others? Reflect upon this in the context of the so-called "race riots" in Cronulla during december of 2005. Why were these riots primarily carried out by young men and not women or older men?

Edited by ~Negar~
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Walaikumasalammm,

Yeah the Aboriginals :P.

The first thing you gotta do is identify the problems with the whole notion of being Australian/defining Australianness, for how can u determine who is more Australian if u don't even know what being Australian means? So what does it mean to be Australian? The politicians are going on about Australian values yet they fail to define them (other than the concept of ''a fair go;'' which appears to be uncontested). It's a political ploy, they won't define it coz they'd run into all sorts of political problems by doing that yet they use it to ignite a sense of nationalism - it's just racism in a covert form. It's kinda like the whole ''war on terror'' concept - it's a very abstract concept and it hasn't really been explained properly (they can't even agree on a definition of terrorism), nor justified, nor it's strategy properly outlined, nor does it address the reasons behind terrorism - which you would think would be their main concern if they're trying to combat terrorism....surprise surprise :wacko: Yet it's still an effective method of uniting the West against Islam.

Sorry g2g now, I'll try and add more later. But regarding the whole male vs female thing - they want a very sociological answer to that so try to find sociological studies on that - the group dynamics and behaviour patterns of males vs females, the ''mob mentality'' etc etc.

wasalaam

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Walaikumasalammm,

Yeah the Aboriginals :P.

The first thing you gotta do is identify the problems with the whole notion of being Australian/defining Australianness, for how can u determine who is more Australian if u don't even know what being Australian means? So what does it mean to be Australian? The politicians are going on about Australian values yet they fail to define them (other than the concept of ''a fair go;'' which appears to be uncontested). It's a political ploy, they won't define it coz they'd run into all sorts of political problems by doing that yet they use it to ignite a sense of nationalism - it's just racism in a covert form. It's kinda like the whole ''war on terror'' concept - it's a very abstract concept and it hasn't really been explained properly (they can't even agree on a definition of terrorism), nor justified, nor it's strategy properly outlined, nor does it address the reasons behind terrorism - which you would think would be their main concern if they're trying to combat terrorism....surprise surprise :wacko: Yet it's still an effective method of uniting the West against Islam.

Sorry g2g now, I'll try and add more later. But regarding the whole male vs female thing - they want a very sociological answer to that so try to find sociological studies on that - the group dynamics and behaviour patterns of males vs females, the ''mob mentality'' etc etc.

wasalaam

Wlkslmmm :D

thank you that helped alot

I agree about the aborigines being most Australian of them all hehe but if we look at how the majority of people think and the government its obvious that being a 'white' Australian makes u superior and more 'Australian' than others. Like even personally when I see a white, blonde person I think Aussie, but when I see a tanned "middle eastern looking" person I dont even think twice about them being aussie even if they were born here. Its not that I think their less aussie but thats just the way we have been thought to think, the whiter u r the more aussie u are...

I believe all people in Australia (excluding the Aborigines) are migrants, so either we are as Aussie as each other or not Aussie at all...er lol anyway

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(salam)

I am australian really australian ie family go back to convicts bushrangers etc(muslim convert), when they talk about australian values...i think its very hard for muslim to fit into that ideal as it would contrict islam....ie a lot of traditions ie melbourne cup famous in australia is gambling....when a child at all schools always played the race over the school pa...and normal for parent put bet on for child....the image of ocker australian muslim could never fit into....and would not want to..drinking beer at the pub..and about cronulla or beach ...hard for muslim girl who is covering fully to go to beach when most of the people are dressed in next to nothing...

I don't know if anyone who is in australia, saw the abc chaser comdey program, where they had a skit taking of the biggest loser program, but it was called the biggest muslim loser...they had two males and one girl, males with beards and girl fully covered even face, and they the men lost their beards and the female took of her robe and face cover, whith just hijab on ...and they all had VB beer in their hand ..like an aussie ocker....I think any muslim that watch that would be offended, i was quite suprised at how far they pushed the joke....

I think other nationalitys fit in more easy with the australian life as these issues do not cause a problem for them....ie they go along to the pub with their work colleagues ...so they will fit in...

As a convert, I feel less and less australian, as I mainly prefer to stay in areas where muslims live....and I am sure most muslim feel the same...as you don't see many in the city or other areas...

Megan

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(salam)

I am australian really australian ie family go back to convicts bushrangers etc(muslim convert), when they talk about australian values...i think its very hard for muslim to fit into that ideal as it would contrict islam....ie a lot of traditions ie melbourne cup famous in australia is gambling....when a child at all schools always played the race over the school pa...and normal for parent put bet on for child....the image of ocker australian muslim could never fit into....and would not want to..drinking beer at the pub..and about cronulla or beach ...hard for muslim girl who is covering fully to go to beach when most of the people are dressed in next to nothing...

I don't know if anyone who is in australia, saw the abc chaser comdey program, where they had a skit taking of the biggest loser program, but it was called the biggest muslim loser...they had two males and one girl, males with beards and girl fully covered even face, and they the men lost their beards and the female took of her robe and face cover, whith just hijab on ...and they all had VB beer in their hand ..like an aussie ocker....I think any muslim that watch that would be offended, i was quite suprised at how far they pushed the joke....

I think other nationalitys fit in more easy with the australian life as these issues do not cause a problem for them....ie they go along to the pub with their work colleagues ...so they will fit in...

As a convert, I feel less and less australian, as I mainly prefer to stay in areas where muslims live....and I am sure most muslim feel the same...as you don't see many in the city or other areas...

Megan

wlkslm sister :)

I found what u said very interesting and it really helped answer a few questions :D

Thanks again

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Salammm :D

I would appreciate it if anyone could answer the following questions but on the lane of sociology. :D

Are some ethnic groups in australia more 'Australian' than others? Reflect upon this in the context of the so-called "race riots" in Cronulla during december of 2005. Why were these riots primarily carried out by young men and not women or older men?

Let me guess. You're studying Introduction to Sociology at UWS? :P lol

Wasalam.

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(salam)

I am australian really australian ie family go back to convicts bushrangers etc(muslim convert), when they talk about australian values...i think its very hard for muslim to fit into that ideal as it would contrict islam....ie a lot of traditions ie melbourne cup famous in australia is gambling....when a child at all schools always played the race over the school pa...and normal for parent put bet on for child....the image of ocker australian muslim could never fit into....and would not want to..drinking beer at the pub..and about cronulla or beach ...hard for muslim girl who is covering fully to go to beach when most of the people are dressed in next to nothing...

I think being a muslim does not conflict at all with being Australian. I think you have to be careful with the words you use. Firstly I dont consider you any more australian than I am simply because you have had family here going back to the convict times. Afterall, all of us besides the aboriginies are migrants here of one sort or another. Perhaps the difference between yourself and many other australians is that you do not have any other culture beside the one which your forfathers grew up with, whereas other australians may have dual or multiple citizenships and cultures.

I think values are VERY different to traditions. I believe australian values are really universal, and I do not see muslim values conflicting with them. True, muslims ideally dont drink or gamble or fornicate as a norm may be with many other australians, but I do not think that our values are different. We uphold truth, honesty, justice, fairness and respect. We may not have the same traditions, but traditions come under cultures and customs not values.

This is precisely why I am nauseated when 'australian' is used to describe a manner of behaviour: eg. The way those boys behaved was very unaustralian.

You know it is because of this sort of thinking that some people are more australian than others, that certain groups are viewed with disdain.

Now I can understand that you feel isolated from most of the australian community because you dont drink, gamble etc, but I do not see that as you becoming less australian. You are merely choosing not to act or believe (disbelieve) as the majority may do or as your forefathers did.

I know this is difficult for muslims because it makes it difficult for us to mix in with other australians. For example conferences or any social/academic event involves the consumption of alcohol (usually in large amounts). We are a minority, granted, but that doesnt make us any less australian.

Edited by Cary Grant
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(salam)

:lol: me too. I can't stand them either! I made sure that I didn't choose a sociology subject this year. I made that mistake twice last year :squeez: lol. Sis Negar I don't mind giving you some of my notes from last year...but I'm not sure if they'll be able to help you much with this topic. I'll see what I can help you with. If you do go to Milperra campus, it'll be good to meet up sometime.

Wasalam.

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(salam)

Well that's the beauty of doing a social science degree instead of a sociology degree, there's only like 2 compulsory sociology subjects and the rest are all electives so u can do anything u want ^_^. I'm doing mainly politics and philosophy subjects, there are only a few interesting sociology ones. Muwahida, aren't u doing a criminology degree? U told me but I forgot :squeez:.

p.s. u better be there this sunday :P

wasalaam

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(salam)

Your subjects sound interesting...I would like to do some politics and philosophy subjects. Lol where did you get criminology from? I'm studying psychology :P. The sociology subjects I chose last year were electives. I could have chosen much more interesting subjects. Oh well...too late now lol. I'm not sure if I'll be able to make it Sunday, but I'll try to :P. I'll tell you on Saturday. lol

Sorry sis Negar for going off-topic. hehe

Ws

Edited by Muwahida
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(salam)

:lol: me too. I can't stand them either! I made sure that I didn't choose a sociology subject this year. I made that mistake twice last year :squeez: lol. Sis Negar I don't mind giving you some of my notes from last year...but I'm not sure if they'll be able to help you much with this topic. I'll see what I can help you with. If you do go to Milperra campus, it'll be good to meet up sometime.

Wasalam.

Salam Salam!!:D

yessssssss i go bankstown!! omg i wud love to meet up!!! :D inshAllahh!!

and omg i wud appreciate dat so much!! this subject is killing me! lol i had my speech today, and i tink InshAllah it went well thanks to shazza! :D

thnx again:) tell me when ur free and we can meet up :)

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Oh God, I can't stand those introduction to sociology type courses.....then again, most sociology subjects suck. When's the assignment due?

wasalaam

Salamm :D

it was due today! lol and yehh the information was pretty good Alhumdullilah cause later the tutor kept referring to my speech :D so i guess dats a good sign inshAllah :D

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I think being a muslim does not conflict at all with being Australian. I think you have to be careful with the words you use. Firstly I dont consider you any more australian than I am simply because you have had family here going back to the convict times. Afterall, all of us besides the aboriginies are migrants here of one sort or another. Perhaps the difference between yourself and many other australians is that you do not have any other culture beside the one which your forfathers grew up with, whereas other australians may have dual or multiple citizenships and cultures.

I think values are VERY different to traditions. I believe australian values are really universal, and I do not see muslim values conflicting with them. True, muslims ideally dont drink or gamble or fornicate as a norm may be with many other australians, but I do not think that our values are different. We uphold truth, honesty, justice, fairness and respect. We may not have the same traditions, but traditions come under cultures and customs not values.

This is precisely why I am nauseated when 'australian' is used to describe a manner of behaviour: eg. The way those boys behaved was very unaustralian.

You know it is because of this sort of thinking that some people are more australian than others, that certain groups are viewed with disdain.

Now I can understand that you feel isolated from most of the australian community because you dont drink, gamble etc, but I do not see that as you becoming less australian. You are merely choosing not to act or believe (disbelieve) as the majority may do or as your forefathers did.

I know this is difficult for muslims because it makes it difficult for us to mix in with other australians. For example conferences or any social/academic event involves the consumption of alcohol (usually in large amounts). We are a minority, granted, but that doesnt make us any less australian.

Thank uu so much brother ! :)

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salamz

wow fellow uws pplz :P Bankstown campus is small, you guys dont even have business lol i wish it did, its close to me lol, instead i gotta travel to mine. Anyways sis Muwahida i know a couple of 2nd yrs who do psychology there but havent spoken to them in ages. are you 2nd or 3rd yr?

ws

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(salam)

^Another one from UWS ayy. Who else goes to UWS?lol. Bankstown campus is cool, too bad they don't offer business hehe. Anyways I'm a second year ...don't know if I'll know any of your friends.

Salam Salam!!:D

yessssssss i go bankstown!! omg i wud love to meet up!!! :D inshAllahh!!

and omg i wud appreciate dat so much!! this subject is killing me! lol i had my speech today, and i tink InshAllah it went well thanks to shazza! :D

thnx again:) tell me when ur free and we can meet up :)

Cool sis, so when do you wanna meet up? Do you know Ruqayah aswell? I wonder if I know you :angel: hmmm.lol. I'm at uni every day of the week except Tuesdays. I'll be free from like 9-12 tomorrow and I'll be going to the General Meeting in the musallah at 4 p.m tomorrow.. don't know if you know about it but I'll be there, so maybe you can meet me there if you want. I'll be free on Friday from 12-1:30 aswell. You work out a time when you wanna meet up :). If you can't meet me this week we'll meet up sometime next week on Monday or Wednesday. Okies take care. InshaAllah I'll see you soon :D

Wasalam.

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(salam)

Cool sis, so when do you wanna meet up? Do you know Ruqayah aswell? I wonder if I know you :angel: hmmm.lol. I'm at uni every day of the week except Tuesdays. I'll be free from like 9-12 tomorrow and I'll be going to the General Meeting in the musallah at 4 p.m tomorrow.. don't know if you know about it but I'll be there, so maybe you can meet me there if you want. I'll be free on Friday from 12-1:30 aswell. You work out a time when you wanna meet up :). If you can't meet me this week we'll meet up sometime next week on Monday or Wednesday. Okies take care. InshaAllah I'll see you soon :D

Wasalam.

(salam)

:)

Omg i was free till 12:30 today!! im in the computer labs now waiting for the sociology lecture lol hmm we might have met....and yup i know about the meetings, the ones Ali White organises right?? man I so want to come to that but tomorrow i have to go to auburn for a observation visit :( and fridayy i finish at 3.00 :S okk argh lol

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Why were these riots primarily carried out by young men and not women or older men?

Stupidity in the violent form, manifested in young males is not something which is special to the cronulla riots and counter riots. Check this out as an example (courtesy of FOTROS):

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7jE-Cakvvtg

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(salam)

(salam)

:)

Omg i was free till 12:30 today!! im in the computer labs now waiting for the sociology lecture lol hmm we might have met....and yup i know about the meetings, the ones Ali White organises right?? man I so want to come to that but tomorrow i have to go to auburn for a observation visit :( and fridayy i finish at 3.00 :S okk argh lol

Lol...yeah we could have met today. Oh well. Anyways the meetings aren't organised by Ali White...he usually attends them though. You know him? I think he's doing some other meetings himself...he's making a small class or Islamic study group or something. Anyways how about we meet Friday... would you be available anytime Friday?

Wasalam. :)

Edited by Muwahida
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(salam)

Lol...yeah we could have met today. Oh well. Anyways the meetings aren't organised by Ali White...he usually attends them though. You know him? I think he's doing some other meetings himself...he's making a small class or Islamic study group or something. Anyways how about we meet Friday... would you be available anytime Friday?

Wasalam. :)

I wrote u in ur profile!! read :D Yup i talk to Ali White sumtyms =] iv been meaning to attend the Islamic study group but never get the time :( n btw yup i noe Ruq =]

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(salam)

^Another one from UWS ayy. Who else goes to UWS?lol. Bankstown campus is cool, too bad they don't offer business hehe. Anyways I'm a second year ...don't know if I'll know any of your friends.

Wasalam.

lol yeh "cool" :P how is Ali white by the way? last time i saw him was probably ashura, he use to be stationed at my campus, wen i was in 1st yr lol until you people stole him, i saw him a while ago at your campus with like all these hijabis around him, his popular? LOL :P, he organises the meetings? your lucky, salafis run everything at mine ahahahah

ws

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(salam)

Dr Ali White seems good, alhamdulillah, haven't seen him for a while though. Yeah he's always talking to hijabis, probably giving them some advice and stuff about uni..he likes to help out. He doesn't organise the Muslim Students Association's meetings on our campus but he sometimes attends them though. I think he was organising some other Islamic meetings at uni, but I don't know much about it. The Shia at Bankstown campus are very lucky B) , alhamdulillah , the Sunnis seem very open-minded and I have never really had any problems there. We don't really have much Salafis, alhamdulillah, lol.

Btw, I still haven't met sis Negar yet! InshaAllah after the break sis :D

Wasalam.

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(salam)

Dr Ali White seems good, alhamdulillah, haven't seen him for a while though. Yeah he's always talking to hijabis, probably giving them some advice and stuff about uni..he likes to help out. He doesn't organise the Muslim Students Association's meetings on our campus but he sometimes attends them though. I think he was organising some other Islamic meetings at uni, but I don't know much about it. The Shia at Bankstown campus are very lucky B) , alhamdulillah , the Sunnis seem very open-minded and I have never really had any problems there. We don't really have much Salafis, alhamdulillah, lol.

Btw, I still haven't met sis Negar yet! InshaAllah after the break sis :D

Wasalam.

Salam Salam!! :D

Ive had one weird look in the pray room by a sunni after telling her we pray zohr and asr together etc lolz but I guess it wasnt meant to be rude lol hehehe ANYWAY call me after the break :D

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