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In the Name of God بسم الله

What Can I Do With My Areeza?

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^salam

The most interesting aspect of this whole discussion has to be how I am able to admitt I understand what you believe but I do not find it reasonable and irrational yet you do not, even for once admitt that its a very delicate subject and one has the right to be vigilant and distressed by its contents.

You seem so sure of yourself that you will not even admitt certain things are based on a shaky foundation and requires faith, but act as if there is no doubt what so ever and bring about a handful of verses and tradition which you consider undisputable, not considering that every other sect does the exact same thing (sunni, wahabi, ahmadinya, bahai etc..).

I have never put my soul in the hands of Ahlul Bayt (as) if it be what you believe or not (that they are judges of souls also), but if it be that I was ever wrong it will be out of ignorance and lack of understanding of whom the great men and women where and what position they held before Allah (swt) and what my obligations where before them, it is not at all clear cut, and I stand by this. However it is certainly very clear to me that the love for Allah (swt) comes before anything else, even his awliya. And the loyalty and devotion before everything else. But I dread the soul who has been born in believing that this isnt so and that there are entities whom in some certain times are more important and are more worth dedication and devotion. You say to me that I should pray for forgivnes because I was tired of hearing your endless rant (which was irelevant t the discussion) because of my will for us all to be devoted to Allah (swt). You make me as if where evil and ill willed torwards Ahlul Bayt (as) when I trust inthe words of the Holy Quran. When I trust in the Holy Prohet himself (pbuh).

a last word from me and to view my perspective and Inshaallah we will respect eachothers own line of thought afterwards, I wish you no harm bro and I wish for both of us to be lead to the straight path, allthough we have been talking about these very touchy issues, I have not really been insulted by you, and that is nice and shows you in good character.

Say: If you love Allah, then follow me, Allah will love you and forgive you your faults, and Allah is Forgiving, Merciful 3:33

We all agree that Muhammad (pbuh) is the greatest of the Ahlul Bayt (as) and he has been showered with most exclusive blessings. But if you study not only the words of this beautiful verse, but also recollect the meaning troughout his life in his example and many sayings. He says, fallow me, not strive torwards me, not devote yourself to me, but fallow me. And Allah (sw) will love you. This must only mean fallow in the context of, do what I do, live as I live, walk the path I walk (i.e the path of siratul mustaqem). He does not say, worship me, infact both he and Allah (swt) many times warn against such excesiveness and bring the example of Jesus (as) and which one learns, this is not something pleasing to Allah (swt), i.e to be excesive. So if we believe in this we will see it is not so hard to understand, the essence of Islam is in its destiny and goal (Allah (swt) pleasure) and not the men of the religions deeds and ranks. Anyways I do not think anything I have said is given the time of the day to be regarded as even slightly correct, but remember, you where never talking to an enemy of Ahlul Bayt (as) just someone who had a different approach.

my regards

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(salam) Bro Salah,

We are also able to understand you...very well indeed.

When holding to Ahlulbayt (as), I am very certain this is the right path... I was a sunni, learn religion after that and accepted to follow Ahlulbayt immediately after my research about it. I stick to the teachings aspect, plus the rituals. Then after something happened...spiritual understanding stepped in. I wanted to know why in al-Kafi and others there are so many traditions that show how "super natural" is ahlulbayt. This can not be!!! They are human beings like us. So the super natural stuffs are actually 'spiritual parts" which I don't even understand. Until I was made to understand according to my understanding. I don't claim that I understood spirituality in totality, but I was made to understand, maybe a very very small part of it.

Once I experienced death, I saw all my good actions just by a glance to my right side and all my sins by a glance to my left side. I still remember it even though it happen a very long time ago. How could I rejected spiritual world. If I could see my whole actions by one glance to the my right side, this is not possible. It is possible by the will of Allah swt. I begged for forgiveness and asked to be return back to this world. I was given a second chance. So in the spiritual world...things happen like magic..supernatural isn't it? There is another world which is parallel to this world, much higher value. It can be reached by the heart.

So I read "light within me"...then things started to open up.

I also come to know that Spiritual knowledge is not something that you can learn...it is given to those who are sincere. Like Adam (as) was given the knowledge, Hadrat Khidir, Allama Tabatabai...who ever Allah wills. Any sincere person will have some sort of spiritual knowledge.

The hadith about "Hold on to Qur'an and Ahlulbayt, you never go astray" is a promise to all muslims at any age. The guidance must come direct...in the form of understanding about the path. Someone has to tell us...in what ever form he is.

If we pray and pray (make solat) during the nights...something will happen to us. We will be given understanding of spiritual stuff. We will feel the greatness of Allah swt. Otherwise why would someone make solat and repeating the same stuff over and over again ...5 times a day. Something must happen that will keep us want to stand up and make prayer.

The same thing will happen if we are trying to get closer to Ahlulbayt and hold on to them. The Ahlulbayt will bring us to Allah swt in the shortest way...the best ever way...the clearest ever way.

Brother, in spiritual world, only souls can unite through the heart. Physical body can't unite.

You say to me that I should pray for forgivnes because I was tired of hearing your endless rant (which was irelevant t the discussion) because of my will for us all to be devoted to Allah (swt). You make me as if where evil and ill willed torwards Ahlul Bayt when I trust inthe words of the Holy Quran. When I trust in the Holy Prohet himself .

If you wanted to be devoted to Allah swt then make sure you give lots of blessings to the Prophet and Family... because Allah says so (33:56) Until you understand that trust in them is not enough. Hold on to them is what is needed.

[Yusufali 3:103] And hold fast, all together, by the rope which Allah (stretches out for you)...Who is the rope of Allah... Ahlulbayt is the source of Unity to all. We unite to the rope of Allah through our souls so that we will have the same understanding and feel. It is haram to be separated from the rope of Allah swt.

a last word from me and to view my perspective and Inshaallah we will respect eachothers own line of thought afterwards, I wish you no harm bro and I wish for both of us to be lead to the straight path, allthough we have been talking about these very touchy issues, I have not really been insulted by you, and that is nice and shows you in good character

We will respect you too...because you respected Ahlulbayt(as). As matter of fact, anyone who show disrespect to Ahlulbayt (as) (after the light has been shown to them), there will be no respect from us...they are hands of syaitans. InsyaAllah, we also pray so all will be guided as long as they are still alive.

Bro Salah,

You argued about the word "follow me"

But if you study not only the words of this beautiful verse, but also recollect the meaning troughout his life in his example and many sayings. He says, fallow me, not strive torwards me, not devote yourself to me, but fallow me. And Allah (sw) will love you. This must only mean fallow in the context of, do what I do, live as I live, walk the path I walk (i.e the path of siratul mustaqem). He does not say, worship me, infact both he and Allah (swt) many times warn against such excesiveness and bring the example of Jesus and which one learns, this is not something pleasing to Allah (swt), i.e to be excesive.

I bold the words... and I will ask you a question. If the Prophet is infront of you, what will you do.. I am hundred 100% believe that you will strive toward him, and devote yourself to him...and you will also follow him.

Rasul and Ahlulbayt are not death, they are alive....

Finally, I will post a verse that is higher than "follow me"...we must hold fast to the rope....

[Yusufali 3:103] And hold fast, all together, by the rope which Allah (stretches out for you), and be not divided among yourselves;

What do you think?

Yes, our destiny is Allah swt...we want to reach Allah swt and HIs pleasure...alone or with Muhammad (Ahmad) and Imams, Other Messengers and Prophets, Walis, Auliya, Shuhadas.... All the names I mentioned were in one jemaah.

We should be with them in worship. That is why we say "salam to them to at the end of our solat".... we are not alone.

Layman

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Salaam Akhi.

There is nothing in Surah Hamd that speaks of "spiritual attachment" to the Ahlul-Bayt (as). Hence it would be irrelevant to that position. On the contrary, what it speaks of, is asking Allah (swt) to guide us on the same path (along the same principles and deeds) that the successful bestowed people (including the Ahlul-Bayt (as)) passed through.

W/s.

Dear Bro... do you care to read Surah Al-Fatiha...

[shakir 1:1] In the name of Allah, the Beneficent, the Merciful.

[shakir 1:2] All praise is due to Allah, the Lord of the Worlds.

[shakir 1:3] The Beneficent, the Merciful.

[shakir 1:4] Master of the Day of Judgment.

[shakir 1:5] Thee do we serve and Thee do we beseech for help.

[shakir 1:6] Keep us on the right path.

[shakir 1:7] The path of those upon whom Thou hast bestowed favors. Not (the path) of those upon whom Thy wrath is brought down, nor of those who go astray.

The ayats from 1-5 all about the Greatness of Allah swt..

But how to reach to the Allah swt...the Beneficent, the Merciful, the Lord of the Worlds, the Master of the Day of Judegement...

Allah swt makes it wajib upon us to serve HIM and we beseech Him for help....

How to serve and how to beseech HIM?

...immediately Allah swt asked all Muslims to see a mean which HE define it as "the right path" and "the path of those upon whom Allahs has bestowed favors".

The mean is basically "path of chosen humans"

Is the right path easy ? or is the right path likes "path to the PEAKS of MOUNTAINS"?... not easy for people like us. Not easy to climb....

The path may also be defined as "thinner than a hair and sharper than a razor blade." The path of Hussain (as) is one of those "PEAK". Unless the person heart and souls are with Imam Hussain (as), he can not witness Karbala. Imam Hussain has reached that that particular PEAK, we need his guide to climb that mountain.

Any path to the PEAKS requires LEADERs or CHOSEN LEADERS...

There is another ULTIMATE PEAK...the coming back of Islam...under the leadership of Imam Zaman... He leads we follow.

Can anyone JUST SAID that the path to Allah swt is just physical and has NOTHING to do with SPIRITUAL???

Or the start of the path to Allah swt ...begins with physical and ENDs with SPIRITUAL. THis is more likely.

Mr Forgeforth... if you want the straight path by going straight to Allah swt and by-pass the "those whom Allah swt has bestowed favors"...it is your choice. Of cause you stick to your physical path. We stick to physical and spiritual paths.

All our worships will go through the "path of those who Allah swt has bestowed favors"...they are our leaders. We present our needs and worships with our Leaders. We do not detached ourselves with them.

We believe that our worships will not be accepted except when we are with the "jamaah of the Ahlulbayt" and they are alive... and they lead and we follow. The jamaah of Ahlulbayt exists before Adam as, during the Prophet time, now, during the zuhor of Imam, during resurrection day and in the Heavan. Without their syafaat, we will be blinded by syaitans, the enemies among humans and jins, and the worldly desires.

If we are not with the jamaah, we will not be in the "right path" of those who are "chosen ones"

Illahi...bee haq Muhammad wa aali Muhammad..."Ihh dinas siratul mustaqeem"

Allahumma salli aala Muhammad wa aali Muhammad

Layman

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(salam)

We are obedient to Ahlul Bayt a.s. in the way of Allah, because it has been ordered by Him to follow them and to love them, and act like them in their worship, etc. Loving Ahlul Bayt a.s. pleases Allah swt because obedience to them is obedience to him. They are our guides in this world, they tell us how to reach the path which takes us to jannah, they are our perfect examples in this life of how to please our one and only Lord. Salawat on them is full of blessings because he has ordered it, it is wajib in salat even for sunni brothers and sisters. But theres a line that they have warned us not to cross. I think a good way to follow them is to see how their greatest companions followed them. But in the end obedience to Ahlul Bayt a.s. will never take you away from Allah, as long as you follow them in the way they have ordered. Unfortunately we interpret this way in different ways, but discussions like these can help us to think for ourselves and see different viewpoints. Inshallah all of us use the teachings of Ahlul Bayt a.s. as the means of growing closer to Allah and to lead us to the garden and not the fire.

wsalam.

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Salaam Akhi.

There is nothing in Surah Hamd that speaks of "spiritual attachment" to the Ahlul-Bayt (as). Hence it would be irrelevant to that position. On the contrary, what it speaks of, is asking Allah (swt) to guide us on the same path (along the same principles and deeds) that the successful bestowed people (including the Ahlul-Bayt (as)) passed through.

W/s.

(salam)

Path of Allah swt is unseen...because Allah swt himself in unseen by our eyes.

Guide us to the right path...means guide us to Allah swt and the path to him is also "unseen". If the path is so clearly seen by physical eyes, then many muslims will not deviated, become sinners or disobeyed the Prophet and Ahlulbayt.

Since the path is unseen...and it is a spiritual journey towards Allah swt...we need a guide by those people who has been in the unseen path. Therefore, we need to attach ourselves to them, basically they will have to hold our hands and bring us toward Allah swt. Since they are alive, they can.

Rasul is the city of knowledge and Ali is the gate...Ahlulbayt has the map and they are the driver. We just need to acknowledge them and let them play their roles as the Guides and we should say "wa qallu sami'na wa attaqna" "we listen and we obey" and NOT " we listen and we question them".

No matter how much you read the teachings of Ahlulbayt (as) and even became a Marja...that does not guarantee you be in the right path. Obedience to Ahlulbayt sincerely will guarantee you to the right path.

That means "EVERYONE" is guaranteed to be in the right path as long as they are sincerely follow Ahlulbayt according to his/her abilities.

That is the reason the hadith "Hold on to Qur'an and Ahlulbayt, you will never go astray"....and the question is how to hold on...."HOLD ON"..."HOLD ON"

Many hold on through "research and study of hadith", some through "studying of tafsir", some through "spiritual approach", some through "studying history", some through "scientific studies"....you name it ... All ARE VALID MEANS to hold on to Ahlulbayt, as long as that LEAD to OBEDIENCE to Ahlulbayt. Some become fighters to fight enemies (like the Hezbollah in Lebonan) and the spirit of Hussains always with them.

Some people beat themselves during Ashura...that is thier understanding of "holding on"...if they are sincere and not hurting the future health...why not? So even writing arezza, that is also ok...why not.

Knowledge and obedience to Ahlulbayt is not rigid to a specific way...it is based on our abilities and how we relate that to obedience to Ahlulbayt sincerely.

Bilal was very un educated person, a slave, and all he knew what ever Rasul said is the truth. When he was tortured by Abu Jahl, Rasul came to see and read to him surah that mentioned "ROME and Farsi will be defeated"...Bilal accepted it and believed in it, while Islam has nothing yet to offer to Bilal (not even to release him from the torture).

Hold on to Ahlulbayt will bring us to Allah swt.

There are many aspects of Islam are unseens....EEman, Taqwa, iklas, tawakal, Imamate, Nubuwah, Qiamat.... including shahadat...witnessing Allah and the Prophet. Even solat is unseen because it requires 'khusyuk". You can only be khusyuk if you can bring yourself to a level where syaitans cannot reach you and bother your mind..

Some wahabbis made fun of how Ayatollah Behjat lead a prayer... these wahabbis don't know that certain word that Ayatollah Behjat read has changed his voice tone....because He sees those words in reality. It is just like during 10 of Ashura, when we call "Ya Hussain"...we cry and cry and cry. That word "ya hussain" during that occasion let us feel the event of Karbala. Saying Ya Hussain on any other days might not have the same impact.

Once a person is on the journey toward Allah swt (never ending journey), it is a journey to unseens, he need guide, he can't go alone. And Ahlulbayt already offer to give their services to us..."HOLD ON TO QUR'AN and AHLULBAYT...

[Yusufali 3:103] And hold fast, all together, by the rope which Allah (stretches out for you), and be not divided among yourselves;

So HOLD FAST to Ahlulbayt...don't let ourselves lost the grip and be divided by syaitans...

Layman

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Salaam Akhi Layman.

I repeat, there is nothing in Surah Hamd that speaks of "spiritual attachment" to the Ahlul-Bayt (as). If you want to make esoteric inferences, just remember, this is a very dangerous path, for anything and everything can be created in the name of esoterism. I leave you to yourself, and me to myself. And Allah is the best of Guides.

W/s.

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Salaam Akhi Layman.

I repeat, there is nothing in Surah Hamd that speaks of "spiritual attachment" to the Ahlul-Bayt (as). If you want to make esoteric inferences, just remember, this is a very dangerous path, for anything and everything can be created in the name of esoterism. I leave you to yourself, and me to myself. And Allah is the best of Guides.

W/s.

(salam)

Suratal Baqara is the begining of tafseer of the Suratal Hamd which is the 7 mathani given to Mohammad (pbuh) along with the Quran. Everything in Quran relates to one of the 7 verses and are expansion of it, emphasis of it, re-confirmation, and show more detail of it.

One of first allusions to guidance and being on the straight path of those whom Allah (swt0 favored is the phrase "Those who believe the unseen..", as Allah (swt) says "these are whom are on guidance from Allah" after these characteristics. Hence the characteristic of believing the unseen is important, and not becoming like bani-Israel believing only a little and disbelieving in God's communciations. If we are disconnect from the light, the reason is also given why, we bought this world with the next. Reflect on yourself, your life, why are we not being guided by Imam Mahdi (as) is only because we chose world over Allah (swt) and next world and Rasool (pbuh) and Imam (as). Either that or as other verses show, the reason may be due to pride. Allah (swt) said he would turn away his signs/communications from the proud to Musa (as). More of the straigh path is revealed in Quran, but the whole aspect of faith in unseen, what bani-Israel disbelieved in, what Iblees disbelieved in, all this is important bother. Open up your heart eyes, Allah (swt) doesn't begin with talking of political and social aspect of guidance to mankind, that is 4th and 5th surah mainly, he begins with spiritual guidance that is promised, those who believe in the signs/proof of God will be guided, those who reject it and are proud just like Iblees rejected and was proud will perish.

And the Imamate of Ibraheem (as) in that surah in that context refers to spiritual inner guidance, otherwise the political and social and religion and outer spiritual guidance and leadership in that respect, Ibraheem (as) already had that the day he was sent as a Prophet.

ws

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(salam)

Suratal Baqara is the begining of tafseer of the Suratal Hamd which is the 7 mathani given to Mohammad (pbuh) along with the Quran. Everything in Quran relates to one of the 7 verses and are expansion of it, emphasis of it, re-confirmation, and show more detail of it.

One of first allusions to guidance and being on the straight path of those whom Allah (swt0 favored is the phrase "Those who believe the unseen..", as Allah (swt) says "these are whom are on guidance from Allah" after these characteristics. Hence the characteristic of believing the unseen is important, and not becoming like bani-Israel believing only a little and disbelieving in God's communciations.

ÈöÓúãö Çááåö ÇáÑøóÍúãäö ÇáÑøóÍöíãö

Çáã {1}

Ðóáößó ÇáúßöÊóÇÈõ áÇó ÑóíúÈó Ýöíåö åõÏðì áøöáúãõÊøóÞöíäó {2}

ÇáøóÐöíäó íõÄúãöäõæäó ÈöÇáúÛóíúÈö æóíõÞöíãõæäó ÇáÕøóáÇÉó æóãöãøóÇ ÑóÒóÞúäóÇåõãú íõäÝöÞõæäó {3}

[Quran 2:1] Alif Lam Mim.

[Quran 2:2] This Book, there is no doubt in it, is a guide to those who guard (against evil).

[Quran 2:3] Those who believe in the unseen and keep up prayer and spend out of what We have given

Alhamdulillah Sr. (or Br.), we all believe in the unseen, keep up prayer, and spend out of what He bestowed on us.

Inshallah may we use the book to get Guidance from the word of Allah (swt) brought to us by the Messenger (sawa). W/s.

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(salam)

Bro the only people who believe in unseen as per that verse is whom Allah (swt) said in suratal sajda:

"only they believe in Allah's signs/communications, those who when reminded of them fall postrate and they are not proud"

Now you saying everyone who believes there will be after life, or there is jinn, or there is something not seen by eyes is "those who believe in unseen". The unseen here is not any unseen. Bro reflect about it, about the other verses relating to "signs of Allah". Only the humble believe. Allah (swt) says have fear of me, I will give you light to walk by. Only the God-fearing believe in unseen. This is re-confirmed "and these are the God-fearing". And Allah (swt) "fear God.. he will give you a light to walk by"

ws

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(salam)

Bro the only people who believe in unseen as per that verse is whom Allah (swt) said in suratal sajda:

"only they believe in Allah's signs/communications, those who when reminded of them fall postrate and they are not proud"

Now you saying everyone who believes there will be after life, or there is jinn, or there is something not seen by eyes is "those who believe in unseen". The unseen here is not any unseen. Bro reflect about it, about the other verses relating to "signs of Allah". Only the humble believe. Allah (swt) says have fear of me, I will give you light to walk by. Only the God-fearing believe in unseen. This is re-confirmed "and these are the God-fearing". And Allah (swt) "fear God.. he will give you a light to walk by"

ws

salam

Brother, what are you on about? Ofcourse we believe in the unseen, but maybe understanding or having higher knowledge we do not, but we do believe it exists. What are you getting at?

salams

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