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ka3wila_omar

Syed And Non Syed Marriage

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so why doesn't somebody enlighten us with real interpretation of the hadith

That hadith has been explained dozens of times on this forum already. But ignorant persons like yourself keep bringing it up nevertheless. Here, in this same thread:

Go spread your Hindu beliefs somewhere else. We don't need them here.

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Why is the hadith found in the book of nikah and why is it that when we take into consideration the Ijmah of the Ahlul Bay (as) we find that the hadith acted out by ahlul bayt (as) means that Syed women cannot marry outside the family.

If we say that this is only a Hindu beleif and only Indo Pak syeds have this view what about the Shia of turkey why is it that they view this type of marriagh as haraam as well, was hinduism effecting turkey aswell.

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Why is the hadith found in the book of nikah

Because it deals with Nikah. What part of this did you find confusing?

and why is it that when we take into consideration the Ijmah of the Ahlul Bay (as) we find that the hadith acted out by ahlul bayt (as) means that Syed women cannot marry outside the family.

There is NO such "Ijmah" of the Ahlulbayt. This is simply your Hinduised beliefs becoming apparent.

what about the Shia of turkey why is it that they view this type of marriagh as haraam as well,

Which Shi'a of Turkey?

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There is NO such "Ijmah" of the Ahlulbayt. This is simply your Hinduised beliefs becoming apparent.

Did any of the Ahlul Bayt (as) marry their women to non Syeds i.e. non ahlul bayt males. So when we see that Ahlul bayt (as) together collectively never did this we can conclude that it is not allowed by IJMAH and Amaal of ahlul bayt (as).

I cant believe we still have people who think this kind of marriage is haram...

The shia are known for this, infact the shia influenced some ahlul sunnah aswell in this beleif and some sunni ulema see it as haraam for a Syedzadi to marry a non syed

Its a shame the Sunnis have taken this but our own people reject this.

The Holy Qur'aan states that the wives are the mothers of the believers. Have you considered why ...? Then you will find that those who have been in the blessed Holy company of RASOOL Allah (pbuh) as Muslims their status had gone above the All the Auwaliya Iqraam... They ARE the BLESSED SAHABA . Those ladies that got the blessing of being the wives their status became so great that they became the MOTHERS of THE BELIEVERS.

Now Allah (swt) calls them the MOTHERS OF THE BELIEVERS .... Now one could say that THESE were just a phrase of respect for them.. BECAUSE they were not actual MOTHERS ... ! Could one marry them..? NO

ALL OF THE SECTS OF ISLAAM considers THE MARRIAGE OF THE WIVES OF THE HOLY PROPHET (pbuh) HARAAM TO ANYONE ELSE. Now we all know HOW THE WIVES got such a high status. It was because of being close to RASOOL Allah through the nisbaa of MARRIAGE.

In view of the fact that the wivesof the Holy Prophet were made haraam for marriage by being called mothers. So the RESPECT of the HOLY PROPHET was affected if their wives married someone else even after their demise. Once we firmly establish all the ways that could be considered disrespectful to the Holy Prophet (pbuh) then it is easy to understand WHY Allah (swt) elevated the status of the wives to mothers.

NOW if the closeness of RASOOL Allah (pbuh) was the MAIN REASON for their elevated status then the CLOSNESS of the DAUGHTER was of even of a higher IMPORTANCE as one can always devorce a wife...But a daughter always remains a daughter even if she is millions of miles away...!

When ones wife runs away with another man, one could always devorce her but when ones daughter runs away then thats a different matter...! So the parents respect and dignity is imbedded in their daughters. The Holy Prophet (pbuh) all their life stood up for their daughter whenever Khatoon e Jannat Fatima (as) came into the room.. They never stood up for any of their wives.. Even when the wives are called the MOTHERS of the believers, the Holy Prophet (sawaw) never stands up for them .. But for their daughter they do ... Which only SHOWS that they did this to establish respect for their daughters amongst MUSLIM community ..

Remember the daughters of the HOLY PROPHET (pbuh) that were taken as prisoners to Kufa and then to Damascus by the YAZEEDI ... Had the Yazeedi not respected them as their MOTHERS they would have married them.

So from the above it is evident that marriage to the wives brings dis-respect to the Holy Prophet (pbuh) likewise marriage to the daughters of the Holy Prophet (pbuh) by non-syeds brings disrespect even more because the daughters carry the blessed blood of Rasool Allah(pbuh)Now someone might say why has it not been made HARAAM in the Holy Quraan .. Well the simple answer to that would be had it not said in the Holy Quraan that your MOTHERS and DAUGHTERS are HARAAM for you to MARRY ... Would you have married them because it was not stated in the HOLY QURAAN... In fact the TORAH of the jews states no-where that you cannot marry your mothers !!! Yet do the Jews marry their mothers offcourse NOT...

Where does it say in the Holy Quraan that you cannot place it on the floor ...? Do we place it on the floor because the Holy Quraan does not forbid us...? No so therefore we look at an indication in regards to respecting the Holy Qur`aan .. There are two indications one is that you must have wudu to touch it second you must always start reading it by saying Ahoozu billallah eiminashaitaan niraahjeem. First purifies the body second purifies the heart/mind by condemning Shaitaan and putting him in his place. From this we derive that the Holy Qur'aan must be respected at all times..

No-one has ever disputed the fact that the HOLY PROPHET (pbuh) stood up for KHATOON E JANNAT FATIMA (as) This shows that one cannot lose out by respecting the Holy Prophets daughters.

So please deeply consider the true teachings of the Holy Qur'aan. Do not let thses mullahs lead you astray ...!

How are the the wives of the Holy Prophet after their demise of the Holy Prophet that they cannot marry anyone else....? What is the main reason for forbidding....?

The MAIN reason is that it is DISRESPECTFUL for anyone to marry the wives .. NOW in this instance it is established that marriage can cause disrespect... We all agree...?

FIRST, DO WE ACCEPT THAT SHOULD THE PROGENY OF RASOOL Allah BE RESPECTED...? WHY.. BECAUSE WE SEND DAROOD UPON THEM BECAUSE THEY CARRY THE BLOOD...

It was on similar grounds the the wives of the best of Allah creation were made MOTHERS of the believers so that no-one could marry them after ... Because the Holy Prophet are high and the Ummah is lower. Though the wives belonged to the Ummah their status through MARRIAGE was elevated. If a status through marriage can be elevated then what could be said about the actual PROGENY (the blood) of the HOLY PROPHET are the PROGENY not elevated above the UMMAH..? Offcourse they are even to the extent that Hazhrat Eisa would pray behind Imam Mahdi who are the PROGENY of Rasool Allah

If the Holy Prophet's wives are Mothers for the believers then what are the Holy Prophet's Daughters to the believers...? They too are to be respected by the UMMAH because of having the Holy Blood of Rasool Allah ...

So when any woman is to be respected by a MAN the thought of respecting as a MOTHER COMES TO MIND not the thought of marriage...! That is why in the MUSLIM UMMAH Syed ladies have been treated like mothers for centuries.

BY NOT MARRYING THE HOLY WIVES OF THE HOLY PROPHET THE UMMAH IS SHOWING HOW MUCH THEY ACTUALLY RESPECT THE HOLY PROPHET

BY NOT MARRYING THE HOLY DAUGHTERS OF THE HOLY PROPHET THE UMMAH IS SHOWING HOW MUCH THEY ACTUALLY RESPECT THE HOLY PROPHET

BY NOW, THE ABOVE SHOULD BE CLEAR IN EVERYONES MINDS

WE RESPECT THE BLOOD OF THE HOLY PROPHET JUST AS Allah WANTED US TO RESPECT THE WIVES BECAUSE OF THE CLOSENESS TO RASOOL Allah NO-ONE CAN BE CLOSER TO RASOOL Allah THAN THEIR PROGENY.

THAT IS WHY THE DAROOD IS FARDZ UPON THE PROGENY AND ZAKAAT IS HARAAM FOR THEM TO CONSUME.

The daughters continue with the HOLY BLOOD of the Holy Prophet... ! Unless the blood of the Holy Prophet is no longer Holy can anyone say that...? Then no-one should be able to say that it is acceptable to marry them ..Why can the people not understand the logic of Allah calling the wives of the Holy Prophet (sawaw) as MOTHERS OF THE BELIEVERS..?

In Mustadrak al Hakim volume 3 page 152 we read that the Holy Prophet have stated that

"the descendants of Fatima are those upon whom Hellfire has been deemed haraam"..Only the descendants of Khatoon e Jannat Fatima Al-Zahra are SYEDS...

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ÇáÓáÇã Úáíßã

yes a syed can marry a non-seyda im sure about that, but I heard a seyed wants to get married to a hashimyah as well just so they're childern will be sayed too - I may be wrong, its just what I heard.

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Did any of the Ahlul Bayt (as) marry their women to non Syeds i.e. non ahlul bayt males.

How do you know they didn't? Some Hindu god appeared in your dreams and told you? :lol:

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Here's one I imagine the Hindu'izers of our religion might not like:

محمد بن الحسن بإسناده عن محمد بن علي بن محبوب ، عن أحمد بن أبي عبدالله البرقي ، عن ابن سنان ، عن منصور الصيقل ، عن أبي عبدالله ( عليه السلام ) قال : تمتع بالهاشمية .

Muhammad b. al-Hasan by his isnad from Muhammad b. `Ali b. Mahbub from Ahmad b. Abi `Abdillah al-Barqi from Ibn Sinan fom Mansur as-Sayqal from Abu `Abdillah عليه السلام. He said: Do mut`a with the Hashimid woman.

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just putting up a lil thought! for those who think that Syed/non-Syed marriage isnt allowed so let me explain, obviously there's no sayidani whos better than Syeda Zaynab(AS), so it must be understood that she was given in marriage with Hz.Abdullah bin Jafar, a non-Syed....anyone to contradict!!!!

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just putting up a lil thought! for those who think that Syed/non-Syed marriage isnt allowed so let me explain, obviously there's no sayidani whos better than Syeda Zaynab(AS), so it must be understood that she was given in marriage with Hz.Abdullah bin Jafar, a non-Syed....anyone to contradict!!!!

I don't think such marriages are forbidden but let me correct you. Sayyeds are not only the descendents of Imam Ali and Sayyedah Fatima. Banu Hashim are also sayyeds albeit of a different league. Therefore Abdullah b. Jafar who married Sayyeda Zainab and another son of Jafar Tayyar who marired Um-e-Kalthum were from the family of the prophet and sayyeds. In any case, if sayyeds were only the descendents of Ali and Fatima, it follows that it was impossible for their two daughters to be married to "proper sayyeds" since there were no other sayyeds in the world except the two sisters and two brothers [imam Hassan and Imam Hussain].

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This day are (all) good things made lawful for you. The food of those who have received the Scripture is lawful for you, and your food is lawful for them. And so are the virtuous women of the believers and the virtuous women of those who received the Scripture before you (lawful for you) when ye give them their marriage portions and live with them in honour, not in fornication, nor taking them as secret concubines. Whoso denieth the faith, his work is vain and he will be among the losers in the Hereafter. 5:5

Wed not idolatresses till they believe; for lo! a believing bondwoman is better than an idolatress though she please you; and give not your daughters in marriage to idolaters till they believe, for lo! a believing slave is better than an idolater though he please you. These invite unto the Fire, and Allah inviteth unto the Garden, and unto forgiveness by His grace, and expoundeth His revelations to mankind that haply they may remember. 2:221

Muslims theses days.

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I think there is a hadith or saying of Imam as.gif regarding consideration of Kafoo when deciding about marriage between two muslims. It ensures adaptability, and success of marriage.

So what elements do we inculde in Kafoo?

If Syeds want to marry within their community, I don't think any one should have the right to object. Rajputs, Mirzas, people prefer to marry within their clan.

Just have a look at the practical benefits of marrying with one's own community:

1) Similar culture, and value system.

2) Serves as an institution.

3) Shares the responsibility for training your children.

4) Life pretty much goes on auto pilot.

and don't get me wrong, but these days you simply cannot be sure about the moral character, and leanings of anyone. The moral decay and deception in the society is so prevalent that its great to have assurance about the values and characterstics that you desire in your life partner.

People here seem to be angry at this attitude.

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If Syeds want to marry within their community, I don't think any one should have the right to object. Rajputs, Mirzas, people prefer to marry within their clan.

Any community has full right to marry within their own community for their own reasons. No one can object to that in principle. But to declare sayyed women haram to non-sayyed men is far more than the idea of preferring to marry within one's own 'community' or 'group'. It is an attempt to back this discriminatory practice through Islam, declaring what is permissible as impermissible, which is the problem. If today Rajputs came with the idea that it is haram to marry Rajput women to Khans, I will take an issue with that and give them a shoe-beating.

Edited by Marbles

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(salam)

No. It is completely false. The general consensus in the Shia community is that Syed can marry non-Sayed (male/female).

Topic Closed. I will update this topic with more references and discussion topics.

Syed And Non Syed Marriage halal or haram

Marriage of Syed Girl with Non Syed Boy

Can a Banu Hashim Marry?

Other topics

Edited by Zareen
add more links

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(salam),

I thought I should add this tradition here. From Uyun al Akhbar al Ridha, Vol. 2 (also reported in Bihar al Anwar):

ÈÇÈõ Þóæúáó ÇáÑöøÖÇ Úóáóíúåö ÇáÓóøáÇãõ áÇÎöíåö ÒóíúÏ Èúäö ãõæÓóì Íöíäó ÇÝÊóÎóÑó Úóáóì ãä Ýöí ãóÌúáöÓöåö æóÞóæúáóåõþ Úóáóíúåö ÇáÓóøáÇãõ Ýöíãóäú íÓíþÁ ÚóÔóÑÉ ÇáÔöøíÚóÉõ ãöä Ãóåúá ÈóíúÊöå æóíÊúÑóß ÇáãõÑÇÞöÈóÉö

ÍóÏóøËóäÇ ãõÍóãóøÏö Èúäö ÃÍúãóÏ ÇáÓóäÇäöí ÞÇáó ÍóÏóøËóäÇ ãõÍóãóøÏö Èúäö ÃóÈí ÚóÈúÏö Çááóøå ÇáßõæÝöí ÞÇáó ÍóÏóøËóäÇ ÇáÝóíúÖõ ÕÇáöÍ Èúäö ÃÍúãóÏ ÞÇáó ÍóÏóøËóäÇ Óóåúáö Èúäö ÒöíÇÏ ÞÇáó ÍóÏóøËóäÇ ÕÇáöÍ Èúäö ÃóÈí ÍóãóøÇÏò ÞÇáó ÍóÏóøËóäÇ ÇáÍóÓóä Èúäö ãõæÓóì Èúäö Úóáöì ÇáæóÔóøÇÁ ÇáÈóÛÏúÇÏí ÞÇáó ßõäúÊõ ÈöÎõÑóÇÓóÇäó ãóÚó Úóáöíöø Èúäö ãõæÓóì ÇáÑöøÖóÇ Úóáóíúåö ÇáÓóøáÇãõ Ýöí ãóÌúáöÓöåö æóÒóíúÏõ Èúäõ ãõæÓóì ÍóÇÖöÑñ ÞóÏú ÃóÞúÈóáó Úóáóì ÌóãóÇÚóÉò Ýöí ÇáóúãÌúáöÓö íóÝúÊóÎöÑõ Úóáóíúåöãú æóíóÞõæáõ äóÍúäõ æóäóÍúäõ æóÃóÈõæ ÇáúÍóÓóäöþ ÚóáóíúÜåö ÇáÓóøÜáÇãõ ãõÞúÈöÜáñ ÚóÜáóì ÞóÜæúãòíõÍóÏöøËõåõãú ÝóÓóãöÚó ãóÞóÇáóÉó ÒóíúÏò ÝóÇáúÊóÝóÊó Åöáóíúåö ÝóÞóÇáó íóÇ ÒóíúÏõ ÃóÛóÑóøßó Þóæúáõ äóÇÞöáöí ÇáúßõæÝóÉö Åöäóø ÝóÇØöãóÉó Úóáóíúåö ÇáÓóøáÇãõ ÃóÍúÕóäóÊú ÝóÑúÌóåóÇ ÝóÍóÑóøãó Çááóøåõ ÐõÑöøíóøÊóåóÇ Úóáóì ÇáäóøÇÑö ÝóæóÇááóøåö ãóÇ Ðóáößó ÅöáÇ áöáúÍóÓóäö æóÇáúÍõÓóíúäö æóæõáúÏö ÈóØúäöåóÇ ÎóÇÕóøÉð æóÃóãóøÇ Ãóäú íóßõæäó ãõæÓóì Èúäõ ÌóÚúÝóÑò Úóáóíúåö ÇáÓóøáÇãõ íõØöíÚõ Çááóøåó æóíóÕõæãõ äóåóÇÑóåõ æóíóÞõæãõ áóíúáóåõ æóÊóÚúÕöíåö ÃóäúÊó Ëõãóø ÊóÌöíÆóÇäö íóæúãó ÇáúÞöíóÇãóÉö ÓóæóÇÁð áÇäúÊó ÃóÚóÒõø Úóáóì Çááóøåö ÚóÒóø æóÌóáóø ãöäúåõ Åöäóø Úóáöíóø Èúäó ÇáúÍõÓóíúäö ßóÇäó íóÞõæáõ áõöãÍúÓöäöäóÇ ßöÝúáÇäö ãöäó ÇáÃóÌúÑö æóáöãõÓöíÆöäóÇ ÖöÚúÝóÇäö ãöäó ÇáúÚóÐóÇÈö ÞóÇáó ÇáúÍóÓóäõ ÇáúæóÔóøÇÁõ Ëõãóø ÇáúÊóÝóÊó Åöáóíóø ÝóÞóÇáó áöí íóÇ ÍóÓóäõ ßóíúÝó ÊóÞúÑóÁõæäó åóÐöåö ÇáÂúíóÉó ÞÇáó íÇ äõæÍõ Åöäóøåõ áóíúÓó ãöäú Ãóåúáößó Åöäóøåõ Úóãóáñ ÛóíúÑõ ÕÇáöÍò ÝóÞõáúÊõ ãöäó ÇáäóøÇÓö ãóäú (Åöäóøåõ Úóãóáñ ÛóíúÑõ ÕÇáöÍò) æãöäúåõãú ãä íÞÑà Åöäóøåõ Úóãóáö ÛóíúÑö ÕÇáöÍ Ýóãóäú ÞÑà (Åöäóøåõ Úóãóáñ ÛóíúÑõ ÕÇáöÍò) ÝóÞóÏú äÝÇå Úóäú ÃóÈíåö ÝóÞÇáóþ Úóáóíúåö ÇáÓóøáÇãõ ßáÇ áóÞóÏú ßÇäó ÇöÈúäöåö æóáßä áóãøÇ ÚÕì Çááóøå ÚóÒóø æóÌóáóø äÝÇå Úóäú ÃóÈíåö ßóÐÇ ãä ßÇäó ãöäóøÇ áóãú íØÚ Çááóøå ÚóÒóø æóÌóáóø ÝóáóíúÓó ãöäóøÇ æóÃóäúÊó ÅöÐÇ ÃØÚÊ Çááóøå ÚóÒóø æóÌóáóø ÝóÃóäÊ ãöäóøÇ Ãóåúá ÇáÈöíúÊ.

Chapter fifty-eight:

On What Al-Reza (s) told his Brother Zayd ibn Musa When Zayd was Being Haughty in Al-Ma’mun’s Presence and What AL-REZA (s) said About Mistreating the Shiites

Muhammad ibn Ahmad al-Sinani narrated that Muhammad ibn Abi Abdullah al-Kufi quoted on the authority of Abul Faydh Salih ibn Ahmad, on the authority of Sahl ibn Ziyad, on the authority of Saleh ibn Abi Hammad, on the authority of Al-Hassan ibn Musa ibn al-Vosha’ al-Baghdadi, “I was with Ali ibn Musa Al-Reza (s) in his meeting in Khorasan where Zayd ibn Musa (Imam Al-Reza’s brother) was present and was haughty with those present saying that we (meaning the offspring of Imam Musa Al-Kazim (s)) are such and such. Abul Hassan Al-Reza (s) who was talking to others heard what Zayd had said. He (s) faced him and said, ‘O Zayd! Have the words of the narrators from Kufa made you so proud when they say, ‘(The Blessed Lady) Fatima (s) maintained her chastity, thus God has forbidden the Fire from touching her progeny.’ By God, this holds true only for Al-Hassan (s), Al-Hussein (s) and Fatima’s (s) own especial offspring. However, if it were the case that your father Musa ibn Ja’far (s) obeyed God, fasted in the daytime and worshipped God at night, but you disobey God and claim to be equal with him (Musa ibn Ja’far (s)) in the Hereafter on the Resurrection Day, this would imply that you are dearer than him (Musa ibn Ja’far (s)) in the sight of God. In fact, Ali ibn Al-Hussein (s) said, ‘There are double rewards for the good-doers from amongst us, and there are double chastisements for the evil-doers from amongst us.’’”

Al-Hassan al-Washsha’ added, “Then the Imam (s) turned to us and said, ‘O Hassan! How do you recite the following verse?, ‘He said, ‘O Noah! He is not of thy family: For his conduct is unrighteous.’’ [371] I (Al-Hassan al-Washsha’) answered, ‘Some people read it in such a way as to mean ‘his conduct is unrighteous’ while others read it in such a manner as to mean ‘he has done ill’. Indeed those who read it in the first form are implying that he is not really of the family of Noah and consider someone else to be his father.’ The Imam (s) said, ‘No. Indeed he was truly Noah’s son. However, since he disobeyed God the Honorable the Exalted, God separated him from his father. This is exactly the same situation that holds true for us (the Members of the Holy Household of the Prophet Muhammad (s)). Whichever one of us does not obey God the Honorable the Exalted does not belong to us. O Hassan! If you obey God the Honorable the Exalted, then you are one of us - the Members of the Holy Household.’”

http://www.maaref-foundation.com/english/library/hadith/uyun_akhbar_al_reza_2/29.htm

wa (salam)

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