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salam :) im a die heart fan of khanum tayyaba bukhari :wub: and although i do agree with you guys that she is expensive but then you shud keep in mind that raising 4 kids is not easy 4 a single moth

I suggest you either be "politically correct" in your responses or change your tone. Whilst you have the right to criticise any school within or outside of Islam, we do not appreciate random newbies s

Salaams, ya ALI(as) madad I know this thread is really old but id really like to add my comments I heard Khanum live for the first time on friday(16th dec) and again yesterday (sat 17th dec) and i am

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(salam)

i have been closely related to some shia families of molanas here in pakistan but what kinda thing is tayyiba bukhari.......good narrator but very expensive

I heard she read somewhere in the UK, anyone know where? She's pretty popular it seems.

I suppose the more popular, the more expensive.

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salam :)

im a die heart fan of khanum tayyaba bukhari :wub: and although i do agree with you guys that she is expensive but then you shud keep in mind that raising 4 kids is not easy 4 a single mother esp in pakistan.

secondly the amount of knowledge she has it takes alot of effort and shud be well payed 4 dat.

a year before from now she wasnt that expensive but suddenly i dont know why(maybe cuz people were calling her too much to read their majalis) dat she made a fixed rate for her majalis.

i wud luv to ask her this question myself just to clear other ppls doubts against her but i think its rude.

but what ever the case maybe we shud focus more on wat she preaches then on wat she takes cuz dat doesn't effect us in any way. dats her personal matter.

ws

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Rawshi, your posts seem to have degenerated into a lot of insults lately. Tayyiba Bukhari is known as an 'alima not just a speaker. Your criticism seems to me to be more about attacking her character as well as that of individuals in the hawza (Lord alone knows who they are since you have not named them). Being pessimistic is not the sign of intellectualism. Just out of curiosity, since you seem to consider yourself a person above Tayyiba Bukhari, where have you lectured? Who were your teachers? What good books have you written?

Although other countries are filled with good ulema both (both men and women mujtahids), Pakistan is lucky to have any scholars, especially a lady one. I think that we should be more careful in how we talk about them. Yes, none of these scholars is infallible and is open to intellectual criticism, but we should be careful to not act in such a way as if their being masoom is what we expect from them and that we should be harsh on them for the Qur'an is opposed to such akhlaq.

wa salaam.

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^ She recently recited in NY. She studied in Qom for several years and from the majlises I heard she recited, she seems to have a lot of knowledge. She apparently was in Qom for over a decade, so I would not be surprised that she is a female mujtahid after hearing her lectures.

Hasan Sajjad

President

^ yep for sure

razia is becomin the first female mujtahid...apparently

(salam)

Just to set the record straight. Khanom Nuzhat Amini was the first woman to be given the ijazaeh-e-ijtehad, almost a century ago. She is the founder of the Madresseh Aminieh for girls/women, which can be considered the female version of Fayziyeh.

She was also the author of many books a large number of them in 'arabi.

Razia Batool and Tayyeba Bokhari are nowhere near Nuzhat Amini so far as knowledheability is concerned.

Wassalaam

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Actually there are people who proceeded Khanum Amini but in any case that has nothing to do with how much knowledge Maulatana Sayeda Bukhari has. On what basis do you say she does not have knowledge? Who has told you this? Because it is quite apparent you don't have all that much knowledge to make such comments by yourself.

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(salam) ohh yes once i was in Rawalpindi i attended majlis recited by Tayyiba bukhari in my Aunti,s house Bargah-e-Sakina.She is very well known and have a great knowledge.Any body of you ever listen to Sayyada Nawab??

salam

ive heard sayyeda nawab but now i avoid listening to her cuz she describes hazrat alis fazail in a eweird way

very much like comparing hazrat ali and Allah(god 4bid) :o

this might seem weird :unsure: but i got that impression after hearing her majalis.

and secondly she talks on nothing other than fazaile ali which is not wrong but when ur at such a respectable position

where so many ppl (there are loads of ppl who come to listen to her at least in pindi) like u and listen to u shud try to mention and correct the faults of the society. except all u hear is naray haidri after every 10mins and when u go home u realise

that after listening to her for 45mins u werent able to gain any message. :dry:

hope i didnt offend any1.

ws

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all u hear is naray haidri after every 10mins and when u go home u realise

that after listening to her for 45mins u werent able to gain any message. :dry:

Hearing and saying Ya Ali is ibbadat in itself, and one of the best message.

If someone doesn't gain anything from it then they should..... (you can fill in the blanks).

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(salam)

(salam)

i have been closely related to some shia families of molanas here in pakistan but what kinda thing is tayyiba bukhari.......good narrator but very expensive

This was apparently a rhetorical question. Yes, she is one of the good orators around in Pakistan today and she is a religious scholar.

If the facts are as stated in the last part of your statement, it is very sad. We had arranged her majalis as well as tafseer sessions in Lahore till 2001. She did not ask for any money and was seemingly satisfied (in that she continued with the majalis and the sessions) with what hadiya we were able to give her.... certainly not on the 'expensive' side!

^ She recently recited in NY. She studied in Qom for several years and from the majlises I heard she recited, she seems to have a lot of knowledge. She apparently was in Qom for over a decade, so I would not be surprised that she is a female mujtahid after hearing her lectures.

Yes, relatively speaking, she is quite knowledgable when compared to the general level of knowledge possessed by most zakiras in Pakistan. As she has left Qum quite a few years ago - almost a decade now - she does not apparently intend to pursue studies towards ijtehad.

I suppose the more popular, the more expensive.

Not if you are serving the Ahl-e-Bait (as) rather than selling your knowledge and popularity.

^

Tayyeba Bokharai and Razia Batool are two women speakers that the traditionalist, hidebound, conservative Hawazeh system showcaeses as an exemplary product for women's religious education.

If so, such 'showcasing' of these two specific ladies would have to be either a systemic part of the hawzavi system - which it is not, or alternatively the act of some specific person(s) in the hawza. Could you identify him/her/them?

^ yep for sure

razia is becomin the first female mujtahid...apparently

Khanum Razia is indeed pursuing studies towards ijtehad - she has been attending dars-e kharij for about 5 years now. However, if she reaches that level, she would not be the first Shi'a woman to have done so.

salam :)

im a die heart fan of khanum tayyaba bukhari :wub: and although i do agree with you guys that she is expensive but then you shud keep in mind that raising 4 kids is not easy 4 a single mother esp in pakistan.

secondly the amount of knowledge she has it takes alot of effort and shud be well payed 4 dat.

a year before from now she wasnt that expensive but suddenly i dont know why(maybe cuz people were calling her too much to read their majalis) dat she made a fixed rate for her majalis.

i wud luv to ask her this question myself just to clear other ppls doubts against her but i think its rude.

but what ever the case maybe we shud focus more on wat she preaches then on wat she takes cuz dat doesn't effect us in any way. dats her personal matter.

ws

Not just this lady but all knowledgable religious scholars who recite majalis have economic needs. That would, however, not justify their asking for any money in return for zikr-e-Husain (alaihissalam), what to talk of being expensive - for if they do they become traders of the blood of Imam Husain (alaihissalam).

What one preaches is not only through his/her speech, but also - perhaps more so - through their acts. If words and deeds do not match, it is hypocritical - and it is the personality that affects the audience, not just words.

Female mujtahid: Everytime I hear that it just makes me laugh.

Pardon me for not joining you in laughter, for when this sinner hears the term he is reminded, among others, of such holy personalities as Fatemah Masumah (of Qum) (ra) and Hakimah Khatoon (ra)

(salam)

Just to set the record straight. Khanom Nuzhat Amini was the first woman to be given the ijazaeh-e-ijtehad, almost a century ago. She is the founder of the Madresseh Aminieh for girls/women, which can be considered the female version of Fayziyeh.

She was also the author of many books a large number of them in 'arabi.

Razia Batool and Tayyeba Bokhari are nowhere near Nuzhat Amini so far as knowledheability is concerned.

It appears that the emboldened statement wasn't an issue here, or was it?

Actually there are people who proceeded Khanum Amini but in any case that has nothing to do with how much knowledge Maulatana Sayeda Bukhari has. On what basis do you say she does not have knowledge? Who has told you this? Because it is quite apparent you don't have all that much knowledge to make such comments by yourself.

:unsure:

salam

ive heard sayyeda nawab but now i avoid listening to her cuz she describes hazrat alis fazail in a eweird way

very much like comparing hazrat ali and Allah(god 4bid) :o

this might seem weird :unsure: but i got that impression after hearing her majalis.

and secondly she talks on nothing other than fazaile ali which is not wrong but when ur at such a respectable position

where so many ppl (there are loads of ppl who come to listen to her at least in pindi) like u and listen to u shud try to mention and correct the faults of the society. except all u hear is naray haidri after every 10mins and when u go home u realise

that after listening to her for 45mins u werent able to gain any message. :dry:

hope i didnt offend any1.

ws

Astaghfirullah!

Hearing and saying Ya Ali is ibbadat in itself, and one of the best message.

If someone doesn't gain anything from it then they should..... (you can fill in the blanks).

It is, in fact, a sunnat of the Holy Prophet (pbuh) , and is further beautified if not done in isolation, rather accompanied by other acts of the sayer / listener also being in accordance with the sunnah of sarkar (pbuh)

well well

seems like a new scholar whose gonna filll some knowledge gaps here

No cadet, not that new!

Iltimaas-e du'a

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Maulatana Tayyiba was giving 4 majalis a day during Muharram: She'd start out in Islamabad, go to Rawalpindi in the afternoon, then she'd travel to a small town where she'd speak and in the evening she would drive a few hours to Lahore. Then she would repeat the cycle the next day. That shows a lot of dedication. It's unfortunate nobody has pointed this out.

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Maulatana Tayyiba was giving 4 majalis a day during Muharram: She'd start out in Islamabad, go to Rawalpindi in the afternoon, then she'd travel to a small town where she'd speak and in the evening she would drive a few hours to Lahore. Then she would repeat the cycle the next day. That shows a lot of dedication. It's unfortunate nobody has pointed this out.

I am not aware of details of her daily programme during ashura-e Muharram. In whatever way she served/s azadari, may Hazrat Sayyeda (Salaam Ullah Alaiha) give her the appropriate jazaa.

I am sure a dedicated servant of farsh-e-aza would not do it to find mention in our discussions, nor would our mentioning it affect his/her stature and reward.

Have we considered the possibility that there may have been other scholars whose level of sacrifice may have been even greater than traveling to 4 towns and cities daily for 10 continuous days, but who may have prohibited its mention in public? May their reward from Hazrat Sayyeda (Salaam Ullah Alaiha) be as great as their level of dedication, sacrifice and sincerity.

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Of course there are others who have just as much if not more dedication, but what I am pointing out is that there is more to this person than what people are saying on this thread. May Allah reward all his sincere servents who seek to promote the ways of Qur'an and Ahlul Bait, ameen.

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Of course there are others who have just as much if not more dedication, but what I am pointing out is that there is more to this person than what people are saying on this thread. May Allah reward all his sincere servents who seek to promote the ways of Qur'an and Ahlul Bait, ameen.

The original poster had mentioned a positive - her high level of oratory - and made a rather strong negative remark about her being "expensive". These two aspects (plus another positive aspect - her knowledge) are what most others have continued to discuss.

I never said she was the first female mujtahid, and I only said I wouldn't be surprised if she was a mujtahid.

Yes, you didn't! But then, no one else here has said that you did!

No where did I make a comparison.

Quite right! But again no one seems to have said that you did!

Rawshni do you just simply hate every scholar (male or female) that supports Islamic Republic of Iran? Maybe if you educate yourself a little instead of thinking you yourself are a marja, it will go a long way! As old as you are, it is time you grow up.

Different wording may have been more helpful in this amr bil marouf!

To those who say scholars are wrong for fixing a price for majlis...maybe if the price is absurd. But one has to consider the fact that this may be their only source of income.

As I said in an earlier post "... all knowledgable religious scholars who recite majalis have economic needs. That would, however, not justify their asking for any money in return for zikr-e-Husain (alaihissalam) ...". The hadaya for addressing majalis is the main - if not the only - source of income for most of them.

Not fixing a price for zikr-e-Husain (alaihissalam) on the one hand depicts the degree of the orator's tawakkul on Allah, and on the other would not discourage even the poorest azadar from asking the orator to address a majlis at his home or azakhana.

Having said that, it is the duty of the person(s) arranging the majlis to give hadiya to the orator to the best of their ability - though the orator should not refuse to recite a majlis just because he/she isn't getting a monetary return.

As servants of a farsh-e aza in Lahore, it is a strict principle of our group that any one fixing the hadiya in advance is not requested by us to take the minbar. However, we try to give them the maximum that our budget allows - and that could differ from year to year: so no predetermined amounts! Alhamdolillah, this year many pious scholars were kind enough to address majalis at our request. None of them asked for any hadiya!

We base our action not on what we say, but on the sunnah of our infallible Imams (as) in dealing with the likes of Da'abal-e Khizai (ra) and Kumait-e Asadi (ra)!

She did not seem to charge an excessive amount here in NY, USA.

Excessive is a relative term. Charging per se is what is inappropraite irrespective of the sum involved.

Basically, some orators' practice of addressing a majlis only after a certain pre-determined sum of money is paid or agreed to be paid is what one feels should be discouraged, as it commercialises and debases the institution of azadari.

I have only heard good things about her from numerous amounts of people and her lectures are excellent!

So have I, other than the 'expensive' remark that we saw here.

May Allah (swt) bless her.

Ilahi Aameen

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I never said she was the first female mujtahid, and I only said I wouldn't be surprised if she was a mujtahid. No where did I make a comparison.

Rawshni do you just simply hate every scholar (male or female) that supports Islamic Republic of Iran? Maybe if you educate yourself a little instead of thinking you yourself are a marja, it will go a long way! As old as you are, it is time you grow up.

To those who say scholars are wrong for fixing a price for majlis...maybe if the price is absurd. But one has to consider the fact that this may be their only source of income. She did not seem to charge an excessive amount here in NY, USA.

I have only heard good things about her from numerous amounts of people and her lectures are excellent! May Allah (swt) bless her.

Hasan Sajjad

President

(salam)

Hasan I wish you had been a bit more attentive to my post. I had clubbed together two posts, one from you, and another from another member.

What I had posted was a general statement, addressed to nobody iin particular and nowhere did I mention that you said Tayyeba Bokhari would be the first female mojtehed.

As for the rest, that is your opinion about me, and you have an absolute and unchallengeable entitlement to it. I am one of those who practice and preach freedom of conscience and speech. I don't place any resctrictions on what people may think, even about me.

If you care to look up my profile, you will notice certain people have made abuisve remarks about me. I approve comments and I approved those. I could have reported. I did not. It is their opinion, they are perfectly entitled to it and to express it. I reserve the right to disagree, and I do.

The same applies to scholars and zakirs, khateebs etc., supporting the Iranian revolution and the system it brought into being.

There are members on this site who will vouch that we have made available to them Welayat-al-Faqih, as well as other writings of Syed Khomeine, works by Syed Khamenie, speeches of Syed Jan Ali Kazmi, Hasan Zafar Naqvi, Mirza Sadiq Hasan etc.

Not only to members of this site but lterally thousands worldwide.

Wassalaam

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(salam)

Hearing and saying Ya Ali is ibbadat in itself, and one of the best message.

If someone doesn't gain anything from it then they should..... (you can fill in the blanks).

(salam)

im sorry if i wasnt able to make myself clear i never said saying ya ali madad is haram or anything like that.

im always saying ya ali myself infact im saying it write now and hope to keep on saying it with every breath that i take as long im alive.(ilahe amin) :wub:

but wat i wanted to point out was that ALIin itself is a huge word which carries in it oceans of great depths of knowledge.

we should try to examine his life from every point of view from the kinds of oppressions and attrocities he had to face at the hands of the oppressors and his so called sahabies who knew him only by his name and did not recognize him for who he really was except for a handful of his dedicated followers.

we shud strive to recognize imam for his philosopphical teachings, his eloquent sermons and his thought provoking duaas along with his other achievements which too carry great importance or else it would be a great injustice done to him at our hands.

so that we too are not among those who only claim to be his followers by name but are living examples of his teachings.

imam alis fazail were not only accepted and praised by his followers but even by his enemies like muawiya and nonmuslims as well. so praising hazrat ali is

not a gr8 big deal as it was done by everyone but wat shud be preached is wat he expected from his followers and how he wanted them to be.

no doubt ya ali carries in itself a gr8 message but only when u say it with maarifat just ike all other forms of worship which are only helpful as long as they keep you away 4om sins and are performed with sincerity and modesty.

i hope this explains everything. :)

she studied in Qom for several years and from the majlises I heard she recited, she seems to have a lot of knowledge

bro, how were u able to listen to her majalis? :huh: cuz although i record her majalis but she told me not to allow any non mahram to be able to hear her voice and it was only on this condition that i got the permission to record hermajalis. shes very strict in this matter.

Khanum Razia is indeed pursuing studies towards ijtehad - she has been attending dars-e kharij for about 5 years now. However, if she reaches that level, she would not be the first Shi'a woman to have done so.

who is khanum razia im hearing her name for the first time? where does she read her majalis?

We had arranged her majalis as well as tafseer sessions in Lahore till 2001.

As servants of a farsh-e aza in Lahore, it is a strict principle of our group that any one fixing the hadiya in advance is not requested by us to take the minbar

so does that mean that you don't call khanum tayyaba anymore?

last but not least this is for those who cannot seem to read between the lines and need to be explained everything to them.

NARAY HAIDERY!! YA ALI YA ALI YA ALI MADAD :lol:

iltemase dua

ws

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(salam)

This is not just an issue concerning one zakira. It is something of far greater magnitude.

(salam)

i have been closely related to some shia families of molanas here in pakistan but what kinda thing is tayyiba bukhari.......good narrator but very expensive

(salam)

This was apparently a rhetorical question. Yes, she is one of the good orators around in Pakistan today and she is a religious scholar.

If the facts are as stated in the last part of your statement, it is very sad. We had arranged her majalis as well as tafseer sessions in Lahore till 2001. She did not ask for any money and was seemingly satisfied (in that she continued with the majalis and the sessions) with what hadiya we were able to give her.... certainly not on the 'expensive' side!

Bhaee Abuzar, since you are Lahore based I will use some examples from Lahore to elaborate a certain observation regarding Tayyeba not making any demands and accepting what little or much hadeiyeh that you people offered.

Nisar Haveli, Karbala Gaamay Shah, Gulistaan-e-Zahraa Abbot Road, Imambargah Sayyedeh Mubark Begum, Imam Bargha Khwagaan Narowaali and Jami Al Muntazar can be considered icons of the Shia in Lahore. And on a social plane the annual Mejalis held at Nasheman and Ashianeh, at the residence ofSheikh Mohammad Ilyas and Sons.

Now imagine for a moment, me, an unknown, or little known entity, being billed as the main zakir for the first Ashreh of Moharram, at one of these places. Or at those social mejalis I placed last above.

Wouldn't you be curious to hear what I have to say, spare time to listen to a couple or more mejalis of mine.

Exposure is the word. People aspiring to become well known zakirs would love to speak at the mentioned places, even without any hidiyeh. It helps generate publicity, and, should I say, business?

The above does not in any way mean that such people may nat be aalims of avery high order.

______________________

Now the other side.

Tayyeba is a single mother and has four growing kids. She lives in Islamabad, not one the cheapest cities in Pakistan. Like all the rest of us, she has a household to maintain. Being a rather well-known pesonage, she probably has to extend more hospitality to more people per month than the rest of us. And does anybody have an idea what it takes tp give a child quallity education in Pakistan. She has four [Allah rakhkhay].Like all the rest of us, she also has social needs to meets, illness, travel, etc. And of course, she also has to put aside a little something to save for a rainy day.

She has only one skill to sell, her oratory, only one goods to trade, her knowledge.

Why shouldn't she charge a premium if her skill is better than most or her goods of superior standard? Why on earth not?

The buck does not stop here . . .

_______________

This is where the buck stops.

Why have we chosen to limit ilm-e-deen to be the monopoly of a certain set of people. Talab-e-'ilm has been the enjoined as the fareedhe of ALL Muslimeen and Muslimaat. WE should be creating a learning society, in which every person is an 'aalim to some degree. WE concentrate on exactly the opposite, never failing to tell people that you cannot do or be this that or the other.

Why is that You cannot be the host and speaker at mejalis at your place and I at mine. Or better still, You at my plce and I at your's?

Saaday wass daa roun naheen. Mayn naeen mann dee

Can anybody, I repeat, anybody prove that Toosi, Mejlisi, Razi Shareef, Murtaza 'A;am al Huda, Hilli, Ali Irdibili made their 'ilm-e-deen their means of livelihood?

Tusee lokee mayraa munh khulwaa daynday o

If so, such 'showcasing' of these two specific ladies would have to be either a systemic part of the hawzavi system - which it is not, or alternatively the act of some specific person(s) in the hawza. Could you identify him/her/them? [

For example the Baqiyatullah Trust, which promotes Tayyeba in Karachi

Not just this lady but all knowledgable religious scholars who recite majalis have economic needs. That would, however, not justify their asking for any money in return for zikr-e-Husain (alaihissalam), what to talk of being expensive - for if they do they become traders of the blood of Imam Husain (alaihissalam).

Apart from certain avaricious people of whom both you and I are very well aware og, most zakirs and zakiras do not make demands. People,sometimes people who have absoluteky nothing to do with the organizing of mejalis, seem to enjoy defaming Shia speakers.

Jan Ali Shah is a case in point. You will hear it from all and sundry that he demanded this much, he damnded that much. I know it for a fact that he does not fix any fee, accepts whatever is offered, and has spoken at many mejalis hosted by people who could not pay anything, he put in an appearance, and again the next year if he was in Pakistan.

The above is something which I have also stated earler on these boards. Our issues with him are something which have no bearing at all in our saying what is commendable about him.

It appears that the emboldened statement wasn't an issue here, or was it?

In fact it was, and it has been taken care of in an earlier post.

Eltemaas-e-Duaa

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(salam)

(salam)

bro, how were u able to listen to her majalis? :huh: cuz although i record her majalis but she told me not to allow any non mahram to be able to hear her voice and it was only on this condition that i got the permission to record hermajalis. shes very strict in this matter.

Yes, at the time when she addressed majalis at our request she had prohibited the recording of her voice or its transmission to males. Now, however, video recordings are also made (in Lahore by a male cameraman) - obviously with her knowledge - and in the first ashra majalis in Lahore separate enclosure is arranged for men who may wish to listen. The video and audio cassettes are sold at the venue.

I, for one, heard her first through such an audio cassette, after she had discontinued addressing the majalis that we arranged.

who is khanum razia im hearing her name for the first time? where does she read her majalis?

Khanum Razia Batool is a Qum-based Pakistani religious scholar who is presently attending dars-e kharij. Over the past few years she has addressed majalis in various places during ayyam-e aza: Karachi (DHA imambargah & Mehfil-e-Murtaza), Faisalabad (Bostan-e-Zahra), Islamabad, Lahore, Dubai and London (Stanmore). This year, at our invitation she addressed majalis in Lahore at Jamia al-Muntazar (first ashra) and Qaumi Markaz Khawajgan (second ashra) besides tafseer sessions of sura ad-Dukhaan. Audio files of these majalis are ready and we hope to upload them soon.

so does that mean that you don't call khanum tayyaba anymore?

No, we didn't stop inviting her.

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Actually there are people who proceeded Khanum Amini but in any case that has nothing to do with how much knowledge Maulatana Sayeda Bukhari has. On what basis do you say she does not have knowledge? Who has told you this? Because it is quite apparent you don't have all that much knowledge to make such comments by yourself.

(salam)

I noticed your post # 7 and this one today.

Do tell us all about who preceded Khanom Nushat Amini to the level of ijtehaaf, who were the Maraj'e who gave her the ijazeh, when was the time when she was elevated to this status, any works by her, etc. etc.

If you still feel strongly that this is not the place to provide me this information, PM it to me, or send it to me via email.

Your post # 7 does not require any response.

Wassalaam

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Salaam Alaiqum,

Yaa Ali Madad haq hai

Both Alima Tayyaba Bukhari and Alima Raziya Najafi sre great great respected scholars and famous

And Masha Allah both have studied in Qum-ISLAMIC REPUBLIC OF IRAN

Those who pass judgements on these two great scholars shud frst have a look the status of their own Ilm

Shias R proud of these two Aalimas

There R Thousand and thousands of Pakistani Shias who stay and study in Islamic Republic of Iran and have special Love in their heart for Islamic Republic of Iran

I feel,Islamic repubic of Iran must be realy realy Proud of giving the Shia world such great Aalimas like Alima Tayyaba and Aalima Razia

Allah Hafiz

Yaa Ali Madad

Firoz Ali

Edited by Firoz Ali
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(salam)

This is not just an issue concerning one zakira. It is something of far greater magnitude.

Bhaee Abuzar, since you are Lahore based I will use some examples from Lahore to elaborate a certain observation regarding Tayyeba not making any demands and accepting what little or much hadeiyeh that you people offered.

Nisar Haveli, Karbala Gaamay Shah, Gulistaan-e-Zahraa Abbot Road, Imambargah Sayyedeh Mubark Begum, Imam Bargha Khwagaan Narowaali and Jami Al Muntazar can be considered icons of the Shia in Lahore. And on a social plane the annual Mejalis held at Nasheman and Ashianeh, at the residence ofSheikh Mohammad Ilyas and Sons.

Now imagine for a moment, me, an unknown, or little known entity, being billed as the main zakir for the first Ashreh of Moharram, at one of these places. Or at those social mejalis I placed last above.

Wouldn't you be curious to hear what I have to say, spare time to listen to a couple or more mejalis of mine.

Exposure is the word. People aspiring to become well known zakirs would love to speak at the mentioned places, even without any hidiyeh. It helps generate publicity, and, should I say, business?

The above does not in any way mean that such people may nat be aalims of avery high order.

Interesting hypothesis. However, from personal exprience I can confirm its lack of applicability (in reverse) in quite a few specific cases: when Dr. Kalbe Sadiq and Maulanas Zaki Baqri, Hasan Zafar Naqvi, Jan Ali Shah Kazmi, Muhammad Taqi Naqvi (aka Taqi Shah), Abbas Kumaili and Sadiq Hasan first agreed to address majalis at Jamia al Muntazar at our request, they were already established names. However, none of them asked us for hadiya then, nor do they do so now!

______________________

Now the other side.

Tayyeba is a single mother and has four growing kids. She lives in Islamabad, not one the cheapest cities in Pakistan. Like all the rest of us, she has a household to maintain. Being a rather well-known pesonage, she probably has to extend more hospitality to more people per month than the rest of us. And does anybody have an idea what it takes tp give a child quallity education in Pakistan. She has four [Allah rakhkhay].Like all the rest of us, she also has social needs to meets, illness, travel, etc. And of course, she also has to put aside a little something to save for a rainy day.

She has only one skill to sell, her oratory, only one goods to trade, her knowledge.

Why shouldn't she charge a premium if her skill is better than most or her goods of superior standard? Why on earth not?

A trader (tajir) would do that not a servant of farsh-e aza! And my contention is not with premium but with charging per se.

The orators that I have named above - with one exception - all belong to single-income middle class families and have to provide for their spouses and children. None of them have ever asked us for any money - before or after addressing majalis. I appreciate this tawakkul of theirs on Allah.

The buck does not stop here . . .

_______________

This is where the buck stops.

Why have we chosen to limit ilm-e-deen to be the monopoly of a certain set of people. Talab-e-'ilm has been the enjoined as the fareedhe of ALL Muslimeen and Muslimaat. WE should be creating a learning society, in which every person is an 'aalim to some degree. WE concentrate on exactly the opposite, never failing to tell people that you cannot do or be this that or the other.

Why is that You cannot be the host and speaker at mejalis at your place and I at mine. Or better still, You at my plce and I at your's?

Theory of comparative advantage: the one best able to do something should do it. I, for one, lack religious knowledge and oration skills. I can write and have management skills. Lehaza mein likhta hoon aur farsh-e aza bichata hoon. Zaib-e minbar honay ko usi ko kehta hoon jo iss laeq nazar aaey

Apart from certain avaricious people of whom both you and I are very well aware og, most zakirs and zakiras do not make demands. People,sometimes people who have absoluteky nothing to do with the organizing of mejalis, seem to enjoy defaming Shia speakers.

Jan Ali Shah is a case in point. You will hear it from all and sundry that he demanded this much, he damnded that much. I know it for a fact that he does not fix any fee, accepts whatever is offered, and has spoken at many mejalis hosted by people who could not pay anything, he put in an appearance, and again the next year if he was in Pakistan.

The above is something which I have also stated earler on these boards. Our issues with him are something which have no bearing at all in our saying what is commendable about him.

In fact it was, and it has been taken care of in an earlier post.

Agreed.

Well, I am not sure what the OP meant by expensive, as in, expensive for what? Maybe she is only expensive for house-calls or not expensive at all for zikre-Hussain and only expensive for other lectures. I say this because the only thing she asked for here in NY was a plane ticket, the masjid also only gave(she did not ask) her 200$ and she was happy and gave her word to return next year. It is possible she is expensive in Pakistan, I wouldn't know. I am speaking from my own experience.

Hasan Sajjad

President

As I said earlier, it is not how much but the act of asking for money in return for zikr-e Husain (alahissalam) that I find repugnant. Also it is not any person but this act associated with him/her that I have opposed. As I said, my personal experience of a few years ago with this scholar was that no demands were made.

salam

bro, cud u plz tell me 4om where i can get the videos made of the majalis of khanum tayyaba at lhr?

and i hope u will upload those videos soon and plz do send a link when u do.

thnx

They are available at Imambargah Bab-ul-Ilm, Nishat Colony when she addresses majalis there - the next being in early Jamadi us Sani. We will not be uploading any of those videos because as a matter of ethics we upload only those majalis that were arranged by us.

Salaam Alaiqum,

Yaa Ali Madad haq hai

Both Alima Tayyaba Bukhari and Alima Raziya Najafi sre great great respected scholars and famous

And Masha Allah both have studied in Qum-ISLAMIC REPUBLIC OF IRAN

Those who pass judgements on these two great scholars shud frst have a look the status of their own Ilm

Shias R proud of these two Aalimas

There R Thousand and thousands of Pakistani Shias who stay and study in Islamic Republic of Iran and have special Love in their heart for Islamic Republic of Iran

I feel,Islamic repubic of Iran must be realy realy Proud of giving the Shia world such great Aalimas like Alima Tayyaba and Aalima Razia

I, for one, am proud of all the Pakistani ulema (including the two ladies) whether they studied at Qum or like the Shaheed Quaid Arf al-Hussaini, at Najaf!

However, the act of asking for money for zikr-e Imam-e Mazloom (alahissalam) is reprehensible - more so if committed by a religious scholar.

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(salam)

Interesting hypothesis. However, from personal exprience I can confirm its lack of applicability (in reverse) in quite a few specific cases: when Dr. Kalbe Sadiq and Maulanas Zaki Baqri, Hasan Zafar Naqvi, Jan Ali Shah Kazmi, Muhammad Taqi Naqvi (aka Taqi Shah), Abbas Kumaili and Sadiq Hasan first agreed to address majalis at Jamia al Muntazar at our request, they were already established names. However, none of them asked us for hadiya then, nor do they do so now!

Well known to what extent. Lahore is a different "market" from Karachi. Relays aren't avaialable everywhere in Lahore and most of the relays originate in Karachi.

And as I said later on in the post you are responding to, most zakirs and zakiras do not fix any fees

A trader (tajir) would do that not a servant of farsh-e aza! And my contention is not with premium but with charging per se.

The orators that I have named above - with one exception - all belong to single-income middle class families and have to provide for their spouses and children. None of them have ever asked us for any money - before or after addressing majalis. I appreciate this tawakkul of theirs on Allah.

Have a heart bhaee. You can aver that they did not ask, but can you aver that they did not expect?

Like all the rest of us, these people have needs, and like all the rest of us, they may also have preferences in the fulfillment of their needs.

For example, I can get a paperabck copy of the Nahj for a 100 odd rupees, but the one I have, lovingly calligraphed by a Turk master craftsman, printed on the finest parchment paper and bound in Olive green morroco with gold foiling is worth far, far more. What is to stop a zakir or zakira desiring desiring to possess such a beautiful edition of such uniquely beautiful sayings? What I am saying is, besides the basic necessities, they may desire the better things in life, and they have as much right to as us, if not more.

Now, if nobody were to offer them hadiyeh, where would they be?

They would become totally dependent upon dole from Khums. Which would place yet even more power in hands where too much power is concentrated already.

Theory of comparative advantage: the one best able to do something should do it. I, for one, lack religious knowledge and oration skills. I can write and have management skills. Lehaza mein likhta hoon aur farsh-e aza bichata hoon. Zaib-e minbar honay ko usi ko kehta hoon jo iss laeq nazar aaey

You cannot abdicate your obligation of "Utlebul 'ilm" and "Yatafakkur fil deen". Nor can you abdicate your responsibility of communicating to others what you know.

By the way, I didn't ask you to be zaib-e-minbar. If I ever ask you speak at a mejlis at my place, you'd either have to sit on a simple chair, or stand behind a podium, and deliver a speech presentation style. :P

Agreed.

Thank you. At least we do agree on some things.

As I said earlier, it is not how much but the act of asking for money in return for zikr-e Husain (alahissalam) that I find repugnant. Also it is not any person but this act associated with him/her that I have opposed. As I said, my personal experience of a few years ago with this scholar was that no demands were made.

We live in a market economy. The only way to avoid zikr-e-Ahle-Bayt and 'ilm-e-deen becoming a jins-e-bazaar

a market commodity is to keep trying to create a learning society wherein every person is a 'aalim of some appreciable degree.

It can be done. It will be done. Hamm naa karr payein, hamaaray bachchay, unn kay bachcay . . . yeh honaa hai, yeh ho gaa.

They are available at Imambargah Bab-ul-Ilm, Nishat Colony when she addresses majalis there - the next being in early Jamadi us Sani. We will not be uploading any of those videos because as a matter of ethics we upload only those majalis that were arranged by us.

In karachi they are sold at stalls set up at the venue of her mejalis. This is perhaps the reason we do not find Tayyeba's mejalis on the internet.

However, the act of asking for money for zikr-e Imam-e Mazloom (alahissalam) is reprehensible - more so if committed by a religious scholar.

Maybe an absurd scenario, but quite possible. A zakir or zakira has no means of subsistence. He or she speaks at any and all mejalis he or she is asked to, and he or she is NOT offered any hadiyeh except duaa-e-khayr.

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Well known to what extent. Lahore is a different "market" from Karachi. Relays aren't avaialable everywhere in Lahore and most of the relays originate in Karachi.

And as I said later on in the post you are responding to, most zakirs and zakiras do not fix any fees

As I said that they have continued the practice of not asking for money even after many years when they have become independently well-known in Lahore.

Have a heart bhaee. You can aver that they did not ask, but can you aver that they did not expect?

While it is beyond me to read their thoughts, the act of at least two of them of returning sealed envelopes with request to add it as their financial contribution shows what may be contsrued to be the apparent lack of expectation from sinning humans like me and tawakkul on Allah! By the way, we arrange the majalis through amalgamation of financial contributions of many people as I am not independently that rich - yet!

Like all the rest of us, these people have needs, and like all the rest of us, they may also have preferences in the fulfillment of their needs.

Quite so, and like some of us they should also pin their hopes and expectations to Allah through Bargah-e Sayyeda (Salaam Ullah Alaeiha), not indulge in price-fixing with us petty humans!

You cannot abdicate your obligation of "Utlebul 'ilm" and "Yatafakkur fil deen". Nor can you abdicate your responsibility of communicating to others what you know.

I haven't! However I choose the medium that I have relative command over: writing and managing azadari.

By the way, I didn't ask you to be zaib-e-minbar. If I ever ask you speak at a mejlis at my place, you'd either have to sit on a simple chair, or stand behind a podium, and deliver a speech presentation style. :P

Minbar is what minbar does: a collection of palaan-e shutr can become the most important minbar, and conversely the 'minbar' of Damascus mosque may be no more than 'pieces of wood' in the eyes of my maula Ali ibne Husain Zain al-Abedin (alaihissalam). :dry:

We live in a market economy. The only way to avoid zikr-e-Ahle-Bayt and 'ilm-e-deen becoming a jins-e-bazaar

a market commodity is to keep trying to create a learning society wherein every person is a 'aalim of some appreciable degree.

It can be done. It will be done. Hamm naa karr payein, hamaaray bachchay, unn kay bachcay . . . yeh honaa hai, yeh ho gaa.

Both of us - and others - are doing it in our own individual styles. We should be big-hearted and non-Wahabi enough not to consider only our way right. And inshaAllah the generations that follow us shall improve upon what we are able to do.

Maybe an absurd scenario, but quite possible. A zakir or zakira has no means of subsistence. He or she speaks at any and all mejalis he or she is asked to, and he or she is NOT offered any hadiyeh except duaa-e-khayr.

A possible scenario and one that actually happened once with Maulana Safdar Najafi. However, this didn't make him discard tawakkul on Allah!

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I am not independently that rich - yet!

Allah karey gaa . . . B'tassadaq-e-aal-e-Fatemah salaam ullah 'alaiha

Quite so, and like some of us they should also pin their hopes and expectations to Allah through Bargah-e Sayyeda (Salaam Ullah Alaeiha), not indulge in price-fixing with us petty humans!

Agreed

I haven't! However I choose the medium that I have relative command over: writing and managing azadari.

I don't know, I feel you could speek nicely

Minbar is what minbar does: a collection of palaan-e shutr can become the most important minbar, and conversely the 'minbar' of Damascus mosque may be no more than 'pieces of wood' in the eyes of my maula Ali ibne Husain Zain al-Abedin (alaihissalam). :dry:

Both of us - and others - are doing it in our own individual styles. We should be big-hearted and non-Wahabi enough not to consider only our way right. And inshaAllah the generations that follow us shall improve upon what we are able to do.

Quite true. And if you have noticed my statements on the matter, you will notice a total non-Wahhabiyyat in general regarding subjects we take issues with.

A possible scenario and one that actually happened once with Maulana Safdar Najafi. However, this didn't make him discard tawakkul on Allah!

Is this the same Maulanan Safdar Hussain Najafi who used to teach at the Jamia al Muntazar way back. Slim, of medium height, dabbta huwa gandumi rang, slightly rough voice. He wrote quite a few books too. Very good writer, but not as good a speaker, the same case as with Mufti Jafar Husain Sahab.

Is he still around? Please tell me more about hin [safdar Hussain Najafi]. Must be quite an old man now.

Eltemaas-e-duaa

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(salam)

Quite true. And if you have noticed my statements on the matter, you will notice a total non-Wahhabiyyat in general regarding subjects we take issues with.

Agreed.

Is this the same Maulanan Safdar Hussain Najafi who used to teach at the Jamia al Muntazar way back. Slim, of medium height, dabbta huwa gandumi rang, slightly rough voice. He wrote quite a few books too. Very good writer, but not as good a speaker, the same case as with Mufti Jafar Husain Sahab.

Is he still around? Please tell me more about hin [safdar Hussain Najafi]. Must be quite an old man now.

He passed away, and Jamia has not been the same after his demise. I shall inshaAllah share details about him some other time.

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(salam)

He passed away, and Jamia has not been the same after his demise. I shall inshaAllah share details about him some other time.

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_________________

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I will anxiously await more about him.

By the way, did he immediately succeed Allameh Tayyeb Aljazaeri or was there any other 'aalim guiding the Jamia between his stewardship and Allameh Aljazaeri's.

Wassalaam

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(salam)

Khanum Razia Batool is a Qum-based Pakistani religious scholar who is presently attending dars-e kharij. Over the past few years she has addressed majalis in various places during ayyam-e aza: Karachi (DHA imambargah & Mehfil-e-Murtaza), Faisalabad (Bostan-e-Zahra), Islamabad, Lahore, Dubai and London (Stanmore). This year, at our invitation she addressed majalis in Lahore at Jamia al-Muntazar (first ashra) and Qaumi Markaz Khawajgan (second ashra) besides tafseer sessions of sura ad-Dukhaan. Audio files of these majalis are ready and we hope to upload them soon.

Audio files of Khanum Razia's majalis have since been uploaded to this website

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