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ZulfiqarAbdullah

The Story Of Fitrus Is Contradictory!

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Salaam Alaykum

The story of Fitrus contradicts the Qur'anic concept that Angels have no free will. How can an angel delay a deed due to lazyness when he has no free will (and thus can't be lazy)? It makes absolutely no sense to me. I saw a thread talking about the story of Fitrus and people asked the same question, but nobody could answer it. Any help? Is this story just that: a story? Maybe one of the Imams (peace be upon them) wanted to show us that the Angels sent our salaams to the Infallibles so he just made up a story? JazakAllahu Khair.

Edited by SpIzo

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edited.

Shame on you who ever you are - you are accusing Imam (as) for making up stories - Where are the mods of this forum who ban members for saying something against our respected Marjas - Do you not consider this an insult for Imam (as) ?

Edited by SpIzo
Quoted part removed

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(salam)

Brother I think there is more than one riwaayat of this story because I have heard a completely different version in majlis.

Basically Fitrus used to be not proud but like he used to claim that there was no angel like himself and hence Allah took away his wings. Then when he was blessed through Imam Hussain (as) he again flew away saying this so Jibraeel (as) asked why are you claiming this again last time you said it you had your wings taken away to which he replied 'last time I had no proof this time I openly claim there is no angel like me' in that he had been given wings because of Imam Hussain (as) and indeed there was no one like him.

http://www.geocities.com/masoom110/SHABAAN.html

In another narrative it is related that Fitrus flew away saying, "Who is similar to me? For I am a freed one of Husain (s.a.s), the son of Ali (a.s.) and Fatemah (a.s.), whose Grandfather is Ahmed (s.a.w.s.)."

I believe I must have heard the 'another narrative' that is being referred to; which to me makes sense and also the other version of this where he delayed in carrying out a command - it may have been something related to satan as satan was allowed to visit paradise. I'm really sorry I'm not really clued up about this version of the hadith I just learnt about it from the website I have given above.

I understand what you are trying to say about angels not having free will etc. and it's really good that you ask questions when you're confused I commend that; but to answer the final question in your post, you should remember that the Imams (as) ajmaeen are maasoom in that they have never commited an error or sin and therefore I know that none of the Imams (as) ajmaeen would have made anything up.

Brother I'm really sorry if I come across arrogant I've tried to read and rephrase my post a few times - I mean everything in the nicest possible way.

Ma'salam and hope it kind of helps

Edited by CyShah

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2:30} And when your Lord said to the angels, I am going to place in the earth a khalif, they said: What! wilt Thou place in it such as shall make mischief in it and shed blood, and we celebrate Thy praise and extol Thy holiness? He said: Surely I know what you do not know.

questioning? is that also due to free will?

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(salam)

Isnt it so that some angels have free will (Iblees, Gabriel, Mikael etc..) and other low ranking angels dont?

Salaam Alaykum

Iblis was always a Jinn, but he was the most noble Jinni until his pride got in his way.

Shame on you who ever you are - you are accusing Imam as.gif for making up stories - Where are the mods of this forum who ban members for saying something against our respected Marjas - Do you not consider this an insult for Imam as.gif ?

No, no, no! Brother, you misunderstood me! I was saying that one of the Imams (as) made a Parable (made up story with a moral), not a lie.

snip

JazakAllahu Khair for your response. It cleared things up. The story I heard was the one you mentioned; Fitrus delayed a deed because he was lazy.

2:30} And when your Lord said to the angels, I am going to place in the earth a khalif, they said: What! wilt Thou place in it such as shall make mischief in it and shed blood, and we celebrate Thy praise and extol Thy holiness? He said: Surely I know what you do not know.

questioning? is that also due to free will?

I've been told a lot that Angels don't have free will, but it was never proven. Perhaps that Qur'an verse proves otherwise? I'll have to look at the Tafsir of that verse...

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Just commentary from Pooya/M.A.Ali of that verse 2:30

ANGELS

Angels, according to the Quran, are finite creatures, devoid of substance, in the sense of matter, therefore, imperceptible by our senses.

An Ahmadi commentator describes the angels as energy without any freedom of will and consciousness, which proves untrue in view of the reply the angels gave to Allah's declaration about His will to send a khalifa on the earth. It means that the angels have been endowed with freedom of will to give expression to their views whenever they choose to do so, and that they are liable to err, because Allah told them that they did not know what Allah knew when they made known their opinion.

In whatever manner created and wherever found, the angels, finite creatures of light, endowed with consciousness and intelligence, act to fulfil the divine plan. They take any physical form (except pigs, dogs and other base animals) to become visible to human vision, but belong to the celestial realm.

Edited by Zufa

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[shakir 2:34] And when We said to the angels: Make obeisance to Adam they did obeisance, but Iblis (did it not). He refused and he was proud, and he was one of the unbelievers.

This is a import verse. Somebody when read that verse, he/she think that Iblis is angel. Because it is says "We said to the angels"

Pooya/Ali Commentary 2:34]

Satisfied with the proof of the absolute wisdom and mercy of Allah, the angels prostrated themselves before Adam, as ordered by Allah, and acknowledged the superiority of the khalifa of Allah. Iblis, jinn, as described by verse 50 of al Kahf, overcome with grief and despair, under the burden of arrogance (kabar), refused to come into the camp of knowledge and mercy surrounded by iman. According to this verse, prostration (sajdah) by one created being, in order to pay homage and accept superiority of another created being, is permissible. The sajdah of total submission and unconditional surrender is for the creator only.

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(bismillah)

I was under the impression that we [ humans ] are superior to angels because of our free will... if angels have free will, what is it that would make us superior? ARE we superior?

(salam)

(wasalam)

It's a misconception that angels do not have any will of their own. Apparently, what they do not have is shahwa (desire) like we do, they only have `aql. Animals (other than humans) have shahwa, but not `aql. Human beings on the other hand are creatures of both. So, if they control their shahwa with the `aql ruling over it, they can be higher than angels. But, if they allow their shahwa to dominate their `aql, they are lower than beasts.

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We confuse the stories of angels because we don't know their true nature. Quran says that they have no freewill and do only as commanded, yet in another Surah Quran says that Allah takes away and gives wings to angels such as he desires.

35-01.gif

It goes to show that the angels can be angels with 2 wings, 4 wings, 6 wings, and MORE and even NO WINGS like Fitrus was.... before Imam Hussayn's miracle gave him 2 wings... or more...

maybe Fitrus was an angel with no wings..

What we must also realize is the story of one shia sahabi of Prophet, relative of Imam Ali, whose name i have forgotten, but is well to have attained 2 wings after attaining shahadaah after badr or uhad.

It goes to show that humans can become angels as well as angels becoming human. So Fitrus could have been a human first, or a jinn, or an angel, then lost his wings, and then got them back.

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Al-salamu alaikum wa rahmatullah,

Angels are creations that also strive to reach perfection and differ in their levels of existence,

Gabriel (as) is superior to all the angels,

and this differentiation in the levels of existence is mentioned in the Qur'an in the following verse:

Praise be to Allah, the Creator of the heavens and the earth, Who appointeth the angels messengers having wings two, three and four. [35:1]

The numerical associations might refer to the different levels of perfection in these Angels.

Anyways, an explanation to that incident (of Fetrus) might be tark al awla (chosing the lesser of the two goods), and this does not contradict with the concept of the angels "who resist not Allah in that which He commandeth them, but do that which they are commanded." Just as the Prophets (as) although they are infallible and do not perform other than what they are commanded two, they might chose an action which is lesser good than another (in the realm of obedience and submission to God).

Wassalam

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ITS VERY GOOD TO ASK IF YOU DON'T KNOW MY FRIEND YOU ARE CONFUSED WITH WORDS FREE WILL AND FULFILLING A JOB ARE TWO DIFFERENT THINGS. IF AN ANGEL COULD NOT PERFORM HIS JOB(IF THAT WAS THE CASE) DOES NOT MEAN THAT HE DISOBEYED AT WILL.

SECOND VERSION ANGELS CAN HAVE THERE OPINION AS PER QURAN IN STORY ABOUT ADAM WHEN THEY ASK Allah THAT YOU WILL MAKE HIM CALIPH WHO WILL DO BAD DEEDS EVEN WE....AND LAST THING ANGELS DO HAVE WILL... IN HADITH KISA GEBRAIL ASK Allah I WANT TO JOIN THEM TO BE SIXTH OF THESE FIVE....

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(bismillah)

I was under the impression that we [ humans ] are superior to angels because of our free will... if angels have free will, what is it that would make us superior? ARE we superior?

(salam)

Angels are superior to us as described by Imam Ali in this sermon:

Sermon 108 - Thou (O’ Alláh) made angels reside in Thy skies and place them high above from Thy earth. They have the most knowledge about Thee and Thy whole creation, the most fearing from Thee, and the nearest to Thee. They never stayed in loins nor were retained in wombs. They were not created “from mean water (semen)” (Qur’án , 32:8; 77:20). They were not dispersed by vicissitudes of time. They are on their places (distinct) from Thee and in their positions near Thee. Their desires are concentrated in Thee. Their worship for Thee is much. Their neglect from Thy command is little. If they witness what remains hidden about Thee they would regard their deeds as very little, they would criticise themselves and would realise that they did not worship Thee according to Thy right for being worshipped and did not obey Thee as Thou hast the right of being obeyed.

We cannot compare to angels in terms of

1 - ilm

2 - servitude

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Angels are superior to us as described by Imam Ali in this sermon:

Sermon 108 - Thou (O’ Alláh) made angels reside in Thy skies and place them high above from Thy earth. They have the most knowledge about Thee and Thy whole creation, the most fearing from Thee, and the nearest to Thee. They never stayed in loins nor were retained in wombs. They were not created “from mean water (semen)” (Qur’án , 32:8; 77:20). They were not dispersed by vicissitudes of time. They are on their places (distinct) from Thee and in their positions near Thee. Their desires are concentrated in Thee. Their worship for Thee is much. Their neglect from Thy command is little. If they witness what remains hidden about Thee they would regard their deeds as very little, they would criticise themselves and would realise that they did not worship Thee according to Thy right for being worshipped and did not obey Thee as Thou hast the right of being obeyed.

We cannot compare to angels in terms of

1 - ilm

2 - servitude

After death we are either demons or angels..

do you remember the sahabi of Prophet who attained his two wings (thus became an angel) after martyrdom?

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What we must also realize is the story of one shia sahabi of Prophet, relative of Imam Ali, whose name i have forgotten, but is well to have attained 2 wings after attaining shahadaah after badr or uhad.

Yes Imam Ali's brother Jaffer.

Letter 28 - The Holy Prophet (s) recited Takbir ('Allahu Akbar') seventy times as a mark of distinction for him, which is not for any other Muslim. Some Muhajirs lost their hands in the battlefield but when one of us (Ja'far, cousin of the Holy Prophet (s) and brother of Imam Ali (a)) lost both of his hands and died in the battlefield, Allah granted him angelic wings and the Holy Prophet (s) informed us that this martyr received the title of Tayyar (one who flies in Paradise).

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Yes Imam Ali's brother Jaffer.

Letter 28 - The Holy Prophet (s) recited Takbir ('Allahu Akbar') seventy times as a mark of distinction for him, which is not for any other Muslim. Some Muhajirs lost their hands in the battlefield but when one of us (Ja'far, cousin of the Holy Prophet (s) and brother of Imam Ali (a)) lost both of his hands and died in the battlefield, Allah granted him angelic wings and the Holy Prophet (s) informed us that this martyr received the title of Tayyar (one who flies in Paradise).

wow bro Knightstemplar.. Nahjul Balagha is really second ONLY to Quran. It contains everything.

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wow bro Knightstemplar.. Nahjul Balagha is really second ONLY to Quran. It contains everything.

LOL

Its an awesome book Alhamdullilah. I am intrigued though how you came to the conclusion that angels can become human beings. I know there is one example in the Quran but i thought that was a temporary measure.

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First of all, is the narration regarding Fitrus even authentic or reliable? Here is the full Arabic hadith:

ÍÏËäÇ ÃÍãÏ Èä ãÍãÏ Èä íÍíì ÇáÚØÇÑ (ÑÍãå Çááå)¡ ÞÇá: ÍÏËäÇ ÃÈí¡ Úä ãÍãÏ Èä ÃÍãÏ Èä íÍíì Èä ÚãÑÇä ÇáÇÔÚÑí¡ ÞÇá: ÍÏËäÇ ãæÓì Èä ÚãÑ¡ Úä ÚÈÏ Çááå Èä ÕÈÇÍ (3) ÇáãÒäí¡ Úä ÅÈÑÇåíã Èä ÔÚíÈ ÇáãíËãí¡ ÞÇá: ÓãÚÊ ÇáÕÇÏÞ ÃÈÇ ÚÈÏ Çááå (Úáíå ÇáÓáÇã) íÞæá: Åä ÇáÍÓíä Èä Úáí (ÚáíåãÇ ÇáÓáÇã) áãÇ æáÏ ÃãÑ Çááå ÚÒ æÌá ÌÈÑÆíá Ãä íåÈØ Ýí ÃáÝ ãä ÇáãáÇÆßÉ ÝíåäÆ ÑÓæá Çááå (Õáì Çááå Úáíå æÂáå) ãä Çááå æãä ÌÈÑÆíá¡ ÞÇá: ÝåÈØ ÌÈÑÆíá¡ ÝãÑ Úáì ÌÒíÑÉ Ýí ÇáÈÍÑ ÝíåÇ ãáß íÞÇá áå: ÝØÑÓ¡ ßÇä ãä ÇáÍãáÉ¡ ÈÚËå Çááå ÚÒ æÌá Ýí ÔÆ ÝÇÈØà Úáíå¡ ÝßÓÑ ÌäÇÍå æÃáÞÇå Ýí Êáß ÇáÌÒíÑÉ¡ ÝÚÈÏ Çááå ÊÈÇÑß æÊÚÇáì ÝíåÇ ÓÈÚãÇÆÉ ÚÇã ÍÊì æáÏ ÇáÍÓíä Èä Úáí (ÚáíåãÇ ÇáÓáÇã)¡ ÝÞÇá Çáãáß áÌÈÑÆíá: íÇ ÌÈÑÆíá¡ Ãíä ÊÑíÏ¿ ÞÇá: Åä Çááå ÚÒ æÌá ÃäÚã Úáì ãÍãÏ ÈäÚãÉ¡ ÝÈÚËÊ ÃåäÆå ãä Çááå æãäí¡ ÝÞÇá: íÇ ÌÈÑÆíá¡ ÇÍãáäí ãÚß¡ áÚá ãÍãÏÇ (Õáì Çááå Úáíå æÂáå) íÏÚæ áí. ÞÇá: ÝÍãáå¡ ÞÇá: ÝáãÇ ÏÎá ÌÈÑÆíá Úáì ÇáäÈí (Õáì Çááå Úáíå æÂáå) åäÃå ãä Çááå ÚÒ æÌá æãäå¡ æÃÎÈÑå ÈÍÇá ÝØÑÓ¡ ÝÞÇá ÇáäÈí (Õáì Çááå Úáíå æÂáå): Þá áå: ÊãÓÍ ÈåÐÇ ÇáãæáæÏ æÚÏ Åáì ãßÇäß¡ ÞÇá: ÝÊãÓÍ ÝØÑÓ ÈÇáÍÓíä Èä Úáí (ÚáíåãÇ ÇáÓáÇã) æÇÑÊÝÚ¡ ÝÞÇá: íÇ ÑÓæá Çááå¡ ÃãÇ Åä ÇãÊß ÓÊÞÊáå¡ æáå Úáí ãßÇÝÇÉ¡ ÃáÇ íÒæÑå ÒÇÆÑ ÅáÇ ÃÈáÛÊå Úäå¡ æáÇ íÓáã Úáíå ãÓáã ÅáÇ ÃÈáÛÊå ÓáÇãå¡ æáÇ íÕáí Úáíå ãÕá ÅáÇ ÃÈáÛÊå ÕáÇÊå¡ Ëã ÇÑÊÝÚ

al-Amali of Shaykh Saduq, pg. 200

http://yasoob.com/books/htm1/m012/10/no1000.html

`Abdullah b. Sabah al-Mizni appears to be majhool. But I just did a cursory check so I'm not certain about it.

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LOL

I am intrigued though how you came to the conclusion that angels can become human beings. I know there is one example in the Quran but i thought that was a temporary measure.

Oh i am not 100 percent sure on that, but remember that Allah is capable of doing all things so maybe its possible. It was just a possibility in my mind regarding the story of Fitrus. But i am not sure this story is even worthy because Imam Hussain makes million beings angels each day and night so i dunno why should we stick to one story. Maybe Fitrus is a special angel in his presence or something.

Edited by Storm Large

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There's another narration that mentions Fitrus, though it goes in less detail than the one fyst has quoted. It's found at the end of Ibn Idris' as-Sara'ir, where he's brought a number of extracts from ancient works of hadith (many of which are now lost other to us other than in his quoting of them). This particular narration is being quoted from the Jami` of al-Bazanti, who was a companion of Imam Rida (as):

æÚäå Úä ÚäÇä¡ ãæáì ÓÏíÑ¡ Úä ÃÈí ÚÈÏ Çááå Úáíå ÇáÓáÇã¡ æÚä ÑÌá ãä ÃÕÍÇÈäÇ Úä ÃÈíå Úä ÃÈí ÚÈÏ Çááå Úáíå ÇáÓáÇã¡ ÞÇá æÐßÑå ÛíÑ æÇÍÏ ãä ÃÕÍÇÈäÇ¡ Úä ÃÈí ÚÈÏ Çááå¡ ÞÇá Åä ÝØÑÓ ãáß ßÇä íØíÝ ÈÇáÚÑÔ¡ ÝÊáßà Ýí ÔÆ ãä ÃãÑ Çááå¡ ÝÞÕ ÌäÇÍå æÑãí Èå Úáì ÌÒíÑÉ (1)¡ ÝáãÇ æáÏ ÇáÍÓíä åÈØ ÌÈÑÆíá Åáì ÑÓæá Çááå Õáì Çááå Úáíå æÂáå ÊåäíÉ (2) ÈæáÇÏÉ ÇáÍÓíä ÝãÑ Èå¡ ÝÚÇÐ ÈÌÈÑíá ÝÞÇá¡ ÞÏ ÈÚËÊ Åáì ãÍãÏ Ãåäíå ÈãæáæÏ æáÏ áå¡ ÝÅä ÔÆÊ ÍãáÊß Åáíå¡ ÝÞÇá ÞÏ ÔÆÊ¡ ÝÍãáå¡ ÝæÖÚå Èíä íÏí ÑÓæá Çááå¡ æÈÕÈÕ ÈÅÕÈÚå Åáíå¡ ÝÞÇá áå ÑÓæá Çááå ÇãÓÍ ÌäÇÍß ÈÍÓíä ÝãÓÍ ÌäÇÍå ÈÍÓíä ÝÚÑÌ

http://www.yasoob.com/books/htm1/m001/00/no0051.html

Edited by macisaac

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The translation of the hadith I posted has already been linked to above:

http://www.geocities.com/masoom110/SHABAAN.html

Shaikh Sadooq (May Allah sanctify his grave) quotes Imam Ja'far as Sadiq (a.s.) as saying that when Imam Husain (a.s.) was born, Allah commanded Jibra'eel to descend upon the earth with a thousand Angels and congratulate the Prophet on His behalf and himself. Jibra'eel descended and on the way he passed by an island where an Angel named Fitrus, who was a bearer of the empyrean, lay there banished. Allah had once assigned a job to Fitrus who delayed it due to laziness; hence Allah took away his wings and expelled him to the island. Fitrus worshipped Allah there for seven hundred years until the time Imam Husain (a.s.) was born. When Fitrus saw Jibra'eel he inquired of him as to where was he going. Jibra'eel answered that, "Allah, the Exalted, has bestowed His Blessings (Imam Husain) upon Mohammad (s.a.w.s.), thus Allah has commanded me to go and congratulate him on His behalf and myself." Fitrus said, "Then O Jibra'eel! Take me too alongwith you to the presence of the Prophet, perhaps he might pray for me." Ji­bra'eel lifted him up and brought him to the Holy Prophet (s.a.w.s.). When he reached there he offered condolence to him on behalf of Allah and him­self, then he presented the matter of Fitrus. The Prophet commanded Fitrus to touch himself with the body of Imam Husain (a.s) and arise. Fitrus did so and ascended upwards saying, "O Prophet of Allah! This son of your's will be mercilessly killed by your nation. Therefore it is incumbent upon me in exchange of this favour that I recompense. Hence there is no person who visits his grave except that I receive him, and there is no Muslim who offers salutations to him or who prays for him except that I take it to his presence and carry his message." Saying this Fitrus flew away.

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There are 2 theories.

No free will - i believe most people believe in this one, but the story of fitrus might be an argument against this.

The angels have free will ... some people use the verse someone stated earlier about the khalif being put on earth. People who dont believe they have free will say that they were not questioning God and his actions, but they wanted to know why.

my question : Is fitrus sahih? If it is, then why do many scholars who believe in this story still believe angels dont have free will.

Edited by Musa

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There are 2 theories.

No free will - i believe most people believe in this one, but the story of fitrus might be an argument against this.

The angels have free will ... some people use the verse someone stated earlier about the khalif being put on earth. People who dont believe they have free will say that they were not questioning God and his actions, but they wanted to know why.

my question : Is fitrus sahih? If it is, then why do many scholars who believe in this story still believe angels dont have free will.

No it doesnt look Sahih at all if the integrity of the doctrine hinges on hadith quoted by Fyst. One example:

Allah had once assigned a job to Fitrus who delayed it due to laziness; hence Allah took away his wings and expelled him to the island.

This portion proves that the hadith is a lie. The evidence from Imam Ali's sermons prove that angels are not created to feel lazy at all.

Sermon 109 - Their desires are concentrated in Thee. Their worship for Thee is much. Their neglect from Thy command is little. If they witness what remains hidden about Thee they would regard their deeds as very little, they would criticise themselves and would realise that they did not worship Thee according to Thy right for being worshipped and did not obey Thee as Thou hast the right of being obeyed.

Sermon 1 - Then He created the openings between high skies and filled them with all classes of His angels. Some of them are in prostration and do not kneel up. Others in kneeling position and do not stand up. Some of them are in array and do not leave their position. Others are extolling Alláh and do not get tired. The sleep of the eye or the slip of wit, or languor of the body or the effect of forgetfulness does not effect them.

If the hadith is weighted with Nahjul Balagha, it fails miserably. When people are availed a choice between contradictory hadith, the decision making ability (Furqan) becomes very very easy.

If Angels were given Freewill, two traits would manifest clearly

1 - Doubt is a human characteristic. Angels transcend the quality by virtue of their creation:

Sermon 90 - He has made them the trustees of His revelation and sent them to Prophets as holders of His injunctions and prohibitions. He has immunised them against the waviness of doubts. Consequently no one among them

2 - Division of their Ummah

Humans can choose religious leaders of their choice and are divided therein where humans can be monotheists, polytheists, atheists etc. Angels have no such divisions amongst them.

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i take it anyone who thinks angels have not got free will has not read the pooya/ali tafsir of the ayat which was revealed when maula e qaainaat (as) slept in the bed of the prophet?

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For some of us who believe that angels dont have free will, we go by the following

1 - No ayat in the Quran where angels excercise free will into action even when they were turned into human beings. They act as they programmed to act.

2 - Imam Ali's sermons do not produce any example of angels and free will. I have producded sermons to that effect that clearly contradict hadith that suggest otherwise.

3 - Free will leads to divisions in the Ummah. If Angels had free will, they too would have been divided. This is impossible for Muslims to believe.

Fot the other to convince us, you would need to debunk the above or provide contrary verses etc.

Edited by mandate

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snaqvi <--- cant speak arabic

i tried using the 'english' tab on the site quoted by both fyst and macisaac, but i got an 'error' flag.

anyone willing to translate? i would be ever most grateful.

Here's an attempt at translating the one I quoted:

æÚäå Úä ÚäÇä¡ ãæáì ÓÏíÑ¡ Úä ÃÈí ÚÈÏ Çááå Úáíå ÇáÓáÇã¡ æÚä ÑÌá ãä ÃÕÍÇÈäÇ Úä ÃÈíå Úä ÃÈí ÚÈÏ Çááå Úáíå ÇáÓáÇã¡ ÞÇá æÐßÑå ÛíÑ æÇÍÏ ãä ÃÕÍÇÈäÇ¡ Úä ÃÈí ÚÈÏ Çááå¡ ÞÇá Åä ÝØÑÓ ãáß ßÇä íØíÝ ÈÇáÚÑÔ¡ ÝÊáßà Ýí ÔÆ ãä ÃãÑ Çááå¡ ÝÞÕ ÌäÇÍå æÑãí Èå Úáì ÌÒíÑÉ (1)¡ ÝáãÇ æáÏ ÇáÍÓíä åÈØ ÌÈÑÆíá Åáì ÑÓæá Çááå Õáì Çááå Úáíå æÂáå ÊåäíÉ (2) ÈæáÇÏÉ ÇáÍÓíä ÝãÑ Èå¡ ÝÚÇÐ ÈÌÈÑíá ÝÞÇá¡ ÞÏ ÈÚËÊ Åáì ãÍãÏ Ãåäíå ÈãæáæÏ æáÏ áå¡ ÝÅä ÔÆÊ ÍãáÊß Åáíå¡ ÝÞÇá ÞÏ ÔÆÊ¡ ÝÍãáå¡ ÝæÖÚå Èíä íÏí ÑÓæá Çááå¡ æÈÕÈÕ ÈÅÕÈÚå Åáíå¡ ÝÞÇá áå ÑÓæá Çááå ÇãÓÍ ÌäÇÍß ÈÍÓíä ÝãÓÍ ÌäÇÍå ÈÍÓíä ÝÚÑÌ

And from him from `Annan the client of Sadir from Abu `Abdillah (as), and from a man of our companions from his father from Abu `Abdillah (as). He said and more than one of our companions mentioned it from Abu `Abdillah. He said: Verily Fitrus is an angel that would circuit around (do tawaf) around the Throne. So he was tardy in something from the command of Allah, and thus his wing was cut and he was cast by Him (or by it) upon an island. So when al-Husayn was born, Jibra’il went down to the Messenger of Allah (pbuh) congratulating by the birth of al-Husayn so he passed by him. So he sought recourse by Jibra’il. So he said: I have been sent to Muhammad congratulating him by the birth of a child for him, so if you want I will carry you to him. So he carried him, and put him before the hands of the Messenger of Allah, and he ogled (?) by his finger to him. So the Messenger of Allah said to him: By your wing wipe Husayn. So he wiped Husayn by his wing, and he ascended.

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So can anyone tell us the grading of it's chain then ?

Well, you'd want to ask an expert, and plus I don't know where else the account of Fitrus may be found, but none of the chains here appears to rank sahih. The one fyst quoted looks majhool. As to the one I quoted, I'm not sure whether there's two chains being listed there, or three. But none of them appear to rank as sahih (`Inan I can't find a reference for, and the other just says a man from our companions from his father).

That said, I'd be hesitant in dismissing the story. One, there is more than one chain here. And two is the fact it was included in al-Bazanti's book, someone who was a companion of Imam Rida (as) and knew him personally. From the way he writes the isnad, it seems like this was fairly well-known amongst the Imamis. Now that said, one might object that the path of the Jami` to Ibn Idris is unknown, but that I don't know, and I recall seeing at least two hadiths from it being referred to as sahih, the one on chess you can find on tashayyu quoted from it as well as the one on the beard.

As to objections against the story, I think they may be answered. One, again I don't know where folks get this notion that angels have no will of their own, or whether they realize the implications of that. Would one really believe that Jibra'il (as) has no will whatsoever? Or that when the angels asked their question about the placing of a khalifa on Earth, they were being forced to ask this with no will at all? In terms of saying angels can't have will or else they'd sin, well then what about prophets and Imams (as)? They didn't sin either, yet certainly one should not say they thus had no will. And in terms of whether this would count as a sin on the part of Fitrus and thus conflict with our belief in the `ismat of the angels, I don't see how this would be any more problem than for instance the story of Nabi Yunus (as). As someone said above, one might understand this as tark al-awla.

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^I'm calling BS on it, though. Angels are not material beings who would feel lazy or lethargic at times, and delay performing their duties. They are completely spiritual beings and laziness would not afflict them.

From sermon 90 in Nahjul Balagha:

Then
Allah
, the Glorified, created for inhabiting of His skies and populating the higher strata of his realm new (variety of) creatures namely the angels. With them He filled the openings of its cavities and populated with them the vastness of it circumference. In between the openings of these cavities there resounds the voices of angels glorifying Him in the enclosures of sublimity, (behind) curtains of concealment and in veils of His Greatness. And behind this resounding which deafens the ears there is the effulgence of light which defies the approach of sight to it, and consequently the sight stands, disappointed at its limitation.

He created them in different shapes and with diverse characteristics. They have wings. They glorify the sublimity of His Honour. They do not appropriate to themselves His skill that shows itself in creation. Nor do they claim they create anything in which He is unparalleled.
"But they are rather honoured creatures who do not take precedence over Him in uttering anything, and they act according to His command." (Qur'an, 21: 26-27). He has made them the trustees of His revelation and sent them to Prophets as holders of His injunctions and prohibitions.
He has immunised them against the waviness of doubts. Consequently no one among them goes astray from the path of His will.
He has helped them with the benefits of succour and has covered their hearts with humility and peace. He has opened for them doors of submission to His Glories. He has fixed for them bright minarets as signs of His Oneness. The weights of sins do not burden them and the rotation of nights and days does not make them move. Doubts do not attack with arrows the firmness of their faith. Misgivings do not assault the bases of their beliefs. The spark of malice does not ignite among them. Amazement does not tarnish what knowledge of Him their hearts possess, or His greatness and awe of His glory that resides in their bosoms. Evil thoughts do not lean towards them to affect their imagination with their own rust.

Among them are those who are in the frame of heavy clouds, or in the height of lofty mountains, or in the gloom of over-powering darkness. And there are those whose feet have pierced the lowest boundaries of the earth. These feet are like white ensigns which have gone forth into the vast expanse of wind. Under them blows the light wind which retains them upto its last end.

Occupation in His worship has made them carefree, and realities of Faith have served as a link between them and His knowledge. Their belief in Him has made them concentrate on Him. They long from Him not from others. They have tasted the sweetness of His knowledge and have drunk from the satiating cup of His love. The roots of His fear have been implanted in the depth of their hearts. Consequently they have bent their straight backs through His worship. The length of the humility, and extreme nearness has not removed from them the rope of their fear.

They do not entertain pride so as to make much of their acts. Their humility before the glory of
Allah
does not allow them to esteem their own virtues.
Languor does not affect them
despite their long affliction.
Their longings (for Him) do not lessen so that they might turn away from hope in (
Allah
) their Sustainer. The tips of their tongues do not get dry by constant prayers (to
Allah
). Engagements (in other matters) do not betake them so as to turn their (loud) voices for Him into faint ones. Their shoulders do not get displaced in the postures of worship. They do not move their necks (this and that way) for comfort in disobedience of His command. Follies of negligence do not act against their determination to strive, and the deceptions of desires do not overcome their courage.

They regard the Master of the Throne (
Allah
) as the store for the day of their need. Because of their love (for Him) they turn to Him even when others turn to the creatures. They do not reach the ending limit of His worship. Their passionate fondness for His worship does not turn them except to the springs of their own hearts, springs which are never devoid of His hope and His fear.
Fear (of
Allah
) never leaves them so that they might slacken in their efforts
, nor have temptations entrapped them so that they might prefer this light search over their (serious) effort.

They do not consider their past (virtuous) deeds as big, for if they had considered them big then fear would have wiped away hopes from their hearts. They did not differ (among themselves) about their Sustainer as a result of Satan's control over them. The vice of separation from one another did not disperse them. Rancour and mutual malice did not overpower them. Ways of wavering did not divide them. Differences of degree of courage did not render them into divisions.
Thus they are devotees of faith. Neither crookedness (of mind), nor excess,
nor lethargy nor languor breaks them from its rope
.
There is not the thinnest point in the skies but there is an angel over it in prostration (before
Allah
) or (busy) in quick performance (of His commands). By long worship of their Sustainer they increase their knowledge, and the honour of their Sustainer increases in their hearts.

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An argument i have heard is that Angels do have free will, but since they live in heaven ( a perfect society) they act perfectly. Not saying it is true or not, but just another theory.

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Where are the mods of this forum who ban members for saying something against our respected Marjas - Do you not consider this an insult for Imam (as) ?

Brother i am raising this point for year but they show the Deaf ear over the Respect of IMAM(A.S)

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