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Abbas

Abu Hurayrah Al-mudallis Ul-a'zam

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Salam Alaikum

First, please read the following hadeeth from Sahih Muslim:

Book 1, Number 0037:

It is narrated on the authority of Abu Huraira that the Messenger of Allah said to his uncle at the time of his death: Make a profession of it that there is no god but Allah and I will bear testimony (of your being a Muslim) on the Day of judgment. But he (Abu Talib) refused to do so. Then Allah revealed this verse:

"Verily thou canst not guide to the right path whom thou lovest. And it is Allah Who guideth whom He will and He knoweth best who are the guided" (xxviii. 56).

It is unanimous that Abu Hurayrah wasn't even in Hijaz at that time, let alone beside the death-bed of Hazrat Abu Talib [a].

So how is it that he is speaking as though everything was happening before his eyes?

Second hadith from Sahih Bukhari:

Volume 4, Book 51, Number 16:

Narrated Abu Huraira:

When Allah revealed the Verse: "Warn your nearest kinsmen," Allah's Apostle got up and said, "O people of Quraish (or said similar words)! Buy (i.e. save) yourselves (from the Hellfire) as I cannot save you from Allah's Punishment; O Bani Abd Manaf! I cannot save you from Allah's Punishment, O Safiya, the Aunt of Allah's Apostle! I cannot save you from Allah's Punishment; O Fatima bint Muhammad! Ask me anything from my wealth, but I cannot save you from Allah's Punishment."

This is in regards to Da'wah Dhul-Asheerah, where the Prophet invited his relatives for dinner to call them to Islam.

Abu Hurayrah hadn't even accepted Islam at the time. How is he then acting as witness to this occasion?

What is then also beyond me is how Muslim ibn Al-Hajjaj Al-Nisaburi and Mohammad ibn Ismail Al-Bukhari, the two greatest muhadditheen for the Ahlus-Sunnah, had such lack of knowledge of basic historical fact that they didn’t realise that the hadeeths are Mursal and that there is a missing gap in the isnad.

This is only just two examples from each of two Sahihs.

This leads us to question both the reliability of Abu Hurayrah in making things clear and narrating things properly without any Tadlees, and also the reliability of Muslim and Al-Bukhari in investigating properly the whole chain of the narration of their so-called sahih hadeeths.

Could any Sunni explain this please?

Wassalam

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Salaam

Can you give me one valid reaon why a great muslim individual like Abu Huraryrah would lie aout what the prophet (pbuh) has said or done. I believe that he has no benefit to lie. At the same time, during Abu Hurayrah days there was no Suni or Shia, there was only Muslims.

So why dont we condsider that Shia making up all these conspiracies to strenghten their position and make their fabrications look eligible.

Salaam

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^then why did 3 of your 4 rightly guided caliphs ban him from narrating hadith?

why did Caliph Omar slap him and call him a liar? was he a shia too????

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Salaam

Can you give me one valid reaon why a great muslim individual like Abu Huraryrah would lie aout what the prophet (pbuh) has said or done. I believe that he has no benefit to lie. At the same time, during Abu Hurayrah days there was no Suni or Shia, there was only Muslims.

So why dont we condsider that Shia making up all these conspiracies to strenghten their position and make their fabrications look eligible.

Salaam

I dont know what are you talking about. Proof this to me as this is the first time i am hearing this. Sorry but I will not take your word for it and believe it actually happened.

Salaam

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not to mention the hadith that he narrated, when caught out, he said such and such was from the prophet (pbuh), the rest was "from my own self". This's been discussed before, if only the search feature was up and running it'd be easy to bring it again. Insha'Allah others will have the references ready to bring forth.

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not to mention the hadith that he narrated, when caught out, he said such and such was from the prophet (pbuh), the rest was "from my own self". This's been discussed before, if only the search feature was up and running it'd be easy to bring it again. Insha'Allah others will have the references ready to bring forth.

Well, once you have the search function workin again, please provide the proof of what you claim.

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Salaam

Can you give me one valid reaon why a great muslim individual like Abu Huraryrah would lie aout what the prophet (pbuh) has said or done. I believe that he has no benefit to lie.

(salam)

He was working in Muawiya Hadith factory. He has everything to gain..infact he utilized his position to the maximum.

Ayesha said Abu Huraryah was a liar and a fraud.

Imam Ali(as) in Siffin said this to Abu Huraryah "When did you become a companion of the Prophet(saw)!"

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Salaam

Can you give me one valid reaon why a great muslim individual like Abu Huraryrah would lie aout what the prophet (pbuh) has said or done. I believe that he has no benefit to lie. At the same time, during Abu Hurayrah days there was no Suni or Shia, there was only Muslims.

So why dont we condsider that Shia making up all these conspiracies to strenghten their position and make their fabrications look eligible.

Salaam

we will protech abu huraryrah later. my problem is;

we dont have any proof that these hadith are narrated by abu huraryrah himself. somebody else used his name and made hadith. if you say it is not possible that somebody else fabricated hadith in the name of abu huraryrah. i would say is it possible to fabricate haidth in the name of prophet muhammad (pbuh). your answer will be yes. then how come abu huraryrah.

fabrication is possible at any level of chain.

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We should be careful about throwing accusations without evidence. I see this occuring in many threads on this forum where people use personal opinions and inclinations to slander and criticise.

People should be more concerned about bringing solid rock evidence, rather than wishful thinking and the sayings of other scholars, who are prone to be wrong like everyone else.

It does hurt to see companions dead 14000 years ago having their graves dug out day and night by some evil talk.

It is better to FEAR Allah and look for our own shortcomings for a start...and for a change too.

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From Sahih Bukhari

Volume 7, Book 64, Number 268:

Narrated Abu Huraira:

"The Prophet said, 'The best alms is that which is given when one is rich, and a giving hand is better than a taking one, and you should start first to support your dependents.' A wife says, 'You should either provide me with food or divorce me.' A slave says, 'Give me food and enjoy my service." A son says, "Give me food; to whom do you leave me?" The people said, "O Abu Huraira! Did you hear that from Allah's Apostle ?" He said, "No, it is from my own self."

proof enough???

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(salam) ,

It's possible that Abu Hurayrah could have heard this from the prophet later. It doesn't seem to me that Abu Hurayrah is putting himself at the event. For example, he could have asked the prophet (pbuh) about the circumstances behind the revelation of a particular ayah and gotten a response like this.

Allahu Alim

Abd Allah

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It strikes me that those who say "we can't conjecture" (and I'm not speaking about any one person in particular) are often the same ones who do lots of conjecture to justify continued support of a person who is implicated in a negative way in what a hadith CLEARLY says (one usual example is the incident of the pen and paper, and some people make excuse after excuse about the supposed good intentions of a certain person in that hadith who called the Prophet (pbuh) delirious, accused the prophet (pbuh) of speaking nonsense, and said Qur'an is sufficient)

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I dont know what are you talking about. Proof this to me as this is the first time i am hearing this. Sorry but I will not take your word for it and believe it actually happened.

Salaam

if youre ignorant of his history then you shouldnt have answered the thread defending him. this isnt a "shia slander", its known by sunnis and shias that he was banned from narrating hadith and all his wealth taken away from him by Caliph Omar, pick up any sunni history book and read for yourself i dont need to bring proof for a statement of undisputed fact. the other sunnis here who are more knowledgeable should be honest and confirm that this is true rather than remain silent

Edited by DFC

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I believe that he has no benefit to lie. At the same time, during Abu Hurayrah days there was no Suni or Shia, there was only Muslims.

then why do the sunnis say that shiaism was founded by the jew Abdulah Ibn Saba, a contemporary of Abu Hurayra, if there was no shiaism during his time???

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Salam Alaikum

We should be careful about throwing accusations without evidence. I see this occuring in many threads on this forum where people use personal opinions and inclinations to slander and criticise.

People should be more concerned about bringing solid rock evidence, rather than wishful thinking and the sayings of other scholars, who are prone to be wrong like everyone else.

It does hurt to see companions dead 14000 years ago having their graves dug out day and night by some evil talk.

It is better to FEAR Allah and look for our own shortcomings for a start...and for a change too.

It is not wishful thinking that I presented here, I showed a clear gap in the chain between the Prophet and Abu Hurayrah.

People of all other generations are scrutinised to see whether they are reliable or not, and their relation to the person who narrated a hadeeth to them is also investigated to make sure it exists.

There existed no relation between the Prophet and Abu Tadlees at the time of the death of Hazrat Abu Talib, nor at the time of the Da'wah Dhul-Asheerah.

What you don't realise is that most famous of all narrators is Abu Hurayrah. This affects how you follow the Prophet's sunnah, and so affects your deen. Please, for your own sake, do not sweep this glaring flaw away with the excuse that this was just a guy who lived 1,400 years ago, and his actions do not affect us. That is complete rubbish.

The issue here is Abu Hurayrah, not myself and my shortcomings. Alhamdulillah I try to solve my own shortcomings, but that I do not bring on to ShiaChat. If you are not concerned about the happenings of 1,400 years ago which has shaped today's perception of Islam, then please leave this Sunni-Shia Discussions forum, as this is what this forum is centred on.

Sister Aliya has replied finely on the lame excuses offered thus far.

In reponse to the argument that Abu Hurayrah heard from the Prophet who related the story to him later holds no water either.

Abu Hurayrah clearly acts as though he was witness. He does not say that the Prophet said that such things happened several years ago. The first Rawi has to be a witness for anything to come into one's deen and shariah.

This is why he is a Mudallis, in fact the Sheikh of Mudalliseen.

If a non-companion would have narrated things in this way, he would have been rejected and deemed weak.

Abu Hazim Salman Al-Ashja'i narrated the hadeeth in Sahih Muslim from Abu Hurayrah, and he accompanied Abu Hurayrah for five years some time at the end of the latter's life. So lets say the period from his Suhbah to meeting Abu Hazim was 30 years. During this time he could have heard this story from ANYBODY, and narrated it like as if it was his own hadeeth, and committed tadlees as he was so used to doing. Also remember at that time when Abu Hazim met Abu Hurayrah, he would have been living in his palace with expensive clothes, due to the generosity of the Umayyads in gratitude for Abu Hurayrah's services.

If we are to assume that he heard it from another companion, than that is complete conjecture, and going by the calculations above, he could have just as likely have heard it from a non-companion, as he narrated this hadeeth so late in his life, and he would also have been under the pressure of the Umayyads who hated the offspring of Abu Talib.

If one is to assume that a companion's mursal hadeeth was in fact narrated to him from the Prophet by another companion, then one would also have to have some sort of limit on when the hadeeth was narrated on. Because, if the Sahabi lived a long life like Abu Hurayrah, also living at the time of the Tabi'een, then he could easily have heard it from a Tabi'i.

Again, I would like a real response from the Sunnis.

Wassalam

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At the same time, during Abu Hurayrah days there was no Suni or Shia, there was only Muslims.

and whats more, whether there was shiaism or not is irrelevant to the question of the reliability of Abu Hurayra as a narrator!

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if youre ignorant of his history then you shouldnt have answered the thread defending him. this isnt a "shia slander", its known by sunnis and shias that he was banned from narrating hadith and all his wealth taken away from him by Caliph Omar, pick up any sunni history book and read for yourself i dont need to bring proof for a statement of undisputed fact. the other sunnis here who are more knowledgeable should be honest and confirm that this is true rather than remain silent

I know abu hurayrah histroy very well. Any body can lie and write any thing about any one but the hard thing is to support you lies so please do no run away by saying (if youre ignorant of his history then you shouldnt have answered the thread defending him. this isnt a "shia slander", its known by sunnis and shias that he was banned from narrating hadith and all his wealth taken away from him by Caliph Omar, pick up any sunni history book and read for yourself i dont need to bring proof for a statement of undisputed fact. the other sunnis here who are more knowledgeable should be honest and confirm that this is true rather than remain silent) because these are not facts but they might be facts from the shia point of view and your fabricated history. so please dont post things that have no proof and dont use your own opinion as a proof because i really dont care about what you think, what i really care about is historical facts with proof from the Quran.

Salaam

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From Sahih Bukhari

Volume 7, Book 64, Number 268:

Narrated Abu Huraira:

"The Prophet said, 'The best alms is that which is given when one is rich, and a giving hand is better than a taking one, and you should start first to support your dependents.' A wife says, 'You should either provide me with food or divorce me.' A slave says, 'Give me food and enjoy my service." A son says, "Give me food; to whom do you leave me?" The people said, "O Abu Huraira! Did you hear that from Allah's Apostle ?" He said, "No, it is from my own self."

proof enough???

NO! This is EXACTLY what I hate, selectivism and jumping without critical review of the matter!

People read a hadith from Sahih al-Bukhari : 1) without reading the commentary on that Hadith (Shar'h Sahih Al-Bukhari); 2) without reading OTHER Hadiths on the subject, because they can help understand something!

In this Hadith, Abu Huraira (ra) has narrated the Hadith of the Prophet (as), and anyone with an understanding of the language can see that Abu Huraira (ra) then continued talking as if commenting of his won and he made it clear that. What the Prophet (as) said is what is in the first sentence between inverted commas: "The Prophet said, 'The best alms is that which is given when one is rich, and a giving hand is better than a taking one, and you should start first to support your dependents.'

This is confirmed by the following two hadiths also in Bukhari, and when you COMBINE the Hadith above with the ones below (one is narrated also by Abu Huraira (ra)), the picture becomes clear to those who are really keen on learning and not bashing! Bottom line: the Hadith is not fabricated and Abu Huraira (ra) did not fabricate. This rests the case!

Volume 2, Book 24, Number 507:

Narrated Abu Huraira :

The Prophet (p.b.u.h) said, "The best charity is that which is practiced by a wealthy person. And start giving first to your dependents."

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Volume 2, Book 24, Number 508:

Narrated Hakim bin Hizam

The Prophet said, "The upper hand is better than the lower hand (i.e. he who gives in charity is better than him who takes it). One should start giving first to his dependents. And the best object of charity is that which is given by a wealthy person (from the money which is left after his expenses). And whoever abstains from asking others for some financial help, Allah will give him and save him from asking others, Allah will make him self-sufficient."

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Volume 2, Book 24, Number 509:

Narrated Ibn 'Umar:

I heard Allah's Apostle (p.b.u.h) while he was on the pulpit speaking about charity, to abstain from asking others for some financial help and about begging others, saying, "The upper hand is better than the lower hand. The upper hand is that of the giver and the lower (hand) is that of the beggar."

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(salam)

A number of important points here.

1) The hadiths that you read in the Sihah do not give the full chain of narration (isnad). If you want the full chain you will have to look someone else.

2) Abu Huraira (ra) did not behave as if he was the witness. For some hadiths he was, for others he probably heard them from other narrators.

You said: "The first Rawi has to be a witness for anything to come into one's deen and shariah."

How come there are things attributed to the Imams (as) without any chain whatsover... when the Imams lived thousands of years later and were NOT the first Rawi?

3) You seem to be obsessed with the Ummayads and you see them everywhere... and this very often clouds your view and judgement;

4) You can't call Abu Huraira (ra) a Mudalliss if you can't conclusively prove that he lied or fabricated! I did not hear of anyone from the early ones (people of his time) or later ones accusing him of a liar.

Salam Alaikum

It is not wishful thinking that I presented here, I showed a clear gap in the chain between the Prophet and Abu Hurayrah.

People of all other generations are scrutinised to see whether they are reliable or not, and their relation to the person who narrated a hadeeth to them is also investigated to make sure it exists.

There existed no relation between the Prophet and Abu Tadlees at the time of the death of Hazrat Abu Talib, nor at the time of the Da'wah Dhul-Asheerah.

What you don't realise is that most famous of all narrators is Abu Hurayrah. This affects how you follow the Prophet's sunnah, and so affects your deen. Please, for your own sake, do not sweep this glaring flaw away with the excuse that this was just a guy who lived 1,400 years ago, and his actions do not affect us. That is complete rubbish.

The issue here is Abu Hurayrah, not myself and my shortcomings. Alhamdulillah I try to solve my own shortcomings, but that I do not bring on to ShiaChat. If you are not concerned about the happenings of 1,400 years ago which has shaped today's perception of Islam, then please leave this Sunni-Shia Discussions forum, as this is what this forum is centred on.

Sister Aliya has replied finely on the lame excuses offered thus far.

In reponse to the argument that Abu Hurayrah heard from the Prophet who related the story to him later holds no water either.

Abu Hurayrah clearly acts as though he was witness. He does not say that the Prophet said that such things happened several years ago. The first Rawi has to be a witness for anything to come into one's deen and shariah.

This is why he is a Mudallis, in fact the Sheikh of Mudalliseen.

If a non-companion would have narrated things in this way, he would have been rejected and deemed weak.

Abu Hazim Salman Al-Ashja'i narrated the hadeeth in Sahih Muslim from Abu Hurayrah, and he accompanied Abu Hurayrah for five years some time at the end of the latter's life. So lets say the period from his Suhbah to meeting Abu Hazim was 30 years. During this time he could have heard this story from ANYBODY, and narrated it like as if it was his own hadeeth, and committed tadlees as he was so used to doing. Also remember at that time when Abu Hazim met Abu Hurayrah, he would have been living in his palace with expensive clothes, due to the generosity of the Umayyads in gratitude for Abu Hurayrah's services.

If we are to assume that he heard it from another companion, than that is complete conjecture, and going by the calculations above, he could have just as likely have heard it from a non-companion, as he narrated this hadeeth so late in his life, and he would also have been under the pressure of the Umayyads who hated the offspring of Abu Talib.

If one is to assume that a companion's mursal hadeeth was in fact narrated to him from the Prophet by another companion, then one would also have to have some sort of limit on when the hadeeth was narrated on. Because, if the Sahabi lived a long life like Abu Hurayrah, also living at the time of the Tabi'een, then he could easily have heard it from a Tabi'i.

Again, I would like a real response from the Sunnis.

Wassalam

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my problem is that this "hadith" COMBINES both what prophet (pbuh) has said AND what Prophet (pbuh) DID NOT SAY, but rather is what ABU HURAYRA ADDED. What is the purpose of that??? this isn't the ONLY example, by the way, of Abu Hurayra saying things on his own (i.e. not from the Prophet (pbuh)) that is narrated in hadith. it was just the easiest example to find. However I did provide a link that gives more insight into Abu Hurayra and his narrations (post #14).

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Salaam

Can you give me one valid reaon why a great muslim individual like Abu Huraryrah would lie aout what the prophet (pbuh) has said or done. I believe that he has no benefit to lie. At the same time, during Abu Hurayrah days there was no Suni or Shia, there was only Muslims.

So why dont we condsider that Shia making up all these conspiracies to strenghten their position and make their fabrications look eligible.

Salaam

abu-hurera's famous saying...... (in urdu, excuse me)

namaaz ka maza Ali kay peechay or khanay ka maza Muawiya kay peechay hai

someone can translate it in english :)

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Salam Alaikum

1) The hadiths that you read in the Sihah do not give the full chain of narration (isnad). If you want the full chain you will have to look someone else.
Are you saying Mohamad ibn Ismail al-Bukhari and Muslim ibn Hajjaj did not give full isnad in their books??? Was this purposefully or unknowingly?

Before you make such statements, please get confirmation from your sheikh and back it up by a saying of one of your main scholars.

I won't waste my time replying to this until you confirm it.

2) Abu Huraira did not behave as if he was the witness. For some hadiths he was, for others he probably heard them from other narrators.

How does one behave as if he was the witness? If a Rawi says that the Prophet said such-and-such, it is assumed that he heard those words, and there is no missing link in the chain. Everything about the riwayaat tell us that he was witness. If he wasn't witness it was up to him to mention it and mention who he heard it from, like other companions did.

You said: "The first Rawi has to be a witness for anything to come into one's deen and shariah."

How come there are things attributed to the Imams without any chain whatsover... when the Imams lived thousands of years later and were NOT the first Rawi?

Please don't change the subject into another subject you have apparently no clue about. Open another thread about this if you want to.
3) You seem to be obsessed with the Ummayads and you see them everywhere... and this very often clouds your view and judgement;

How does that refute anything I said? Whether I am obsessed about them or not, bring some intelligent response.

If you read a proper biography of Abu Hurayrah, you will find that the early days of Abu Hurayrah were very different to those in the days of Bani Umayyah.

He wore silken clothes and cloak, was given a palace in Al-Aqeeq, where he ruled Madinah as governor on behalf ot Muawiyah, got him married to the sister of an Arabian hero, and he said:"thanks to Allah who made me a leader". And it is also reported that he used to boast heavily about his high position.

4) You can't call Abu Huraira a Mudalliss if you can't conclusively prove that he lied or fabricated! I did not hear of anyone from the early ones (people of his time) or later ones accusing him of a liar.

Do you know what Mudallis means? Apparantly not from your reply. A Mudallis is he who covers up the person "A" who heard from "B", and the Mudallis says that he heard directly from B.

The scholars of Ahlus-Sunnah accept that Abu Hurayrah was a Mudallis, but in order to avoid losing the hundreds of his ahadith and the ahadith of other mudallis companions, they say that there is no problem with Tadlees done by a Companion. WIth this circular logic, they think they have arrived at a logical conclusion to accept everything that Abu Hurayrah gives.

Being a Mudallis does not mean he is lying, it means he is not saying the complete truth.

Nevertheless, people during the time of Abu Hurayrah did call him a liar.

He himself numerous times, trying to defend the quantity of hadeeths he narrated, admitted that people called him a liar and didn't believe him.

Muslim reports that Abu Hurayrah said, striking his forehead with his hands, "Behold, you talk amongst yourselves that I tell lies about the Prophet in order to guide people to the right path...."

There are many reports where Imam Ali [a], Aishah, Umar, ibn Umar, etc, had openly said that they did not believe Abu Hurayrah and called him a liar.

To show the extent of not only his Tadlees but his Lying, I give you a few more ahadeeth on top of the two I have already given:

Sahih Bukhari, Volume 2, Book 17, Number 120:

Narrated Abu Huraira;

Whenever the Prophet (p.b.u.h) lifted his head from the bowing in the last Raka he used to say: "O Allah! Save 'Aiyash bin Abi Rabi'a. O Allah! Save Salama bin Hisham. O Allah! Save Walid bin Walid. O Allah! Save the weak faithful believers. O Allah! Be hard on the tribes of Mudar and send (famine) years on them like the famine years of (Prophet) Joseph ." The Prophet further said, "Allah forgive the tribes of Ghifar and save the tribes of Aslam." Abu Az-Zinad (a sub-narrator) said, "The Qunut used to be recited by the Prophet in the Fajr prayer."

This was during the time when the Muslims were imprisoned and were unable to do Hijrah to Madinah. This was before Abu Hurayrah came to Hijaz, and again he does not say that he heard it from anybody else.

Sahih Muslim, Book 039, Number 6718:

Abu Huraira reported that Abu Jahl asked (people) whether Mubammad placed his face (on the ground) in their presence. It was said to him: Yes. He said: By Lit and Uzza. If I were to see him do that, I would trample his neck, or I would beamear his face with dust. He came to Allah's Messenger (may peace be upon him) as he was engaged in prayer and thought of trampling his neck (and the people say) that he came near him but turned upon his heels and tried to repulse something with his hands. It was said to him: What is the matter with you? He said: There is between me and him a ditch of fire and terror and wings. Thereupon Allah's Messenger (may peace he upon him) said: If he were to come near me the angels would have torn him to pieces. Then Allah, the Exalted and Glorious, revealed this verse- (the narrator) said: We do not know whether it is the hadith transmitted by Abu Huraira or something conveyed to him from another source:" Nay, man is surely inordinate, because he looks upon himself as self-sufficient. Surely to thy Lord is the return. Hast thou seen him who forbids a servant when he prays? Seest thou if he is on the right way, or enjoins observance of piety? Seest thou if he [Abu Jah]] denies and turns away? Knowest he not that Allah sees? Nay. if he desists not, We will seize him by the forelock-a lying, sinful forelock. Then let him summon his council. We will summon the guards of the Hell. Nay! Obey not thou him" (Icvi. 6-19). (Rather prostrate thyself.) Ubaidullah made this addition: It was after this that (prostration) was enjoined upon and Ibn Abd al-Ala made this addition that by Nadia he meant his people.

This is an event early in the Prophet’s mission, when Abu Jahl and the Prophet had such encounters. Abu Hurayrah was again not witness to this, but still acts as the witness. Furthermore the narrator also expresses his confusion what part is the hadeeth and what part is something else.

Sahih Muslim, Book 6, Number 2451:

Abu Bakr (he is Abu Bakr b. Abd al-Rahman b. Harith) reported: I heard Abu Huraira (Allah be pleased with him) narrating that he who is overtaken by dawn in a state of seminal emission should not observe fast. I made a mention of it to 'Abd al-Rahman b. Harith (i.e. to his father) but he denied it. 'Abd al-Rahman went and I also went along with him till we came to'A'isha and Umm Salama (Allah be pleased with both of them) and Abd al-Rahman asked them about it. Both of them said: (At times it so happened) that the Apostle of Allah (may peace be upon him) woke up in the morning in a state of junub (but without seminal emission in a dream) and observed fast He (the narrator) said: We then proceeded till we went to Marwan and Abd al-Rahman made a mention of it to him. Upon this Marwan said: I stress upon you (with an oath) that you better go to Abu Huraira and refer to him what is said about it. So we came to Abu Huraira and Abu Bakr had been with us throughout and 'Abd al-Rahman made a mention of it to him, whereupon Abu Huraira said: Did they (the two wives of the Holy Prophet) tell you this? He replied: Yes Upon this (Abu Huraira) said: They have better knowledge. Abu Huraira then attributed that what was said about it to Fadl b. 'Abbas and said: I heard it from Fadl and not from the Apostle of Allah (may peace be upon him). Abu Huraira then retracted from what he used to say about it. Ibn Juraij (one of the narrators) reported: I asked 'Abd al-Malik, if they (the two wives) said (made the statement) in regard to Ramadan, whereupon he said: It was so, and he (the Holy Prophet) (woke up in the) morning in a state of junub which was not due to the wet dream and then observed fast.

Here the huge jumble of what Abu Hurayrah says, what fatwas he gives, what his sources are, how he changes his mind, and how people didn’t believe him comes to light.

Now here comes the big one, where Abu Hurayrah gives us no choice but to doubt him.

Al-Hakim, Volume 4, page 48

Abu Hurayrah narrated:

I entered upon Ruqayyah the daughter of the Prophet the wife of Uthman, and in her hand was a comb. She said: The Prophet had just left from here a moment ago. I combed his hair. He said to me: “How do you find Abu Abdillah (Uthman)?” I said: “Good.” He said: “Honour him, as he is most in similitude to me in akhlaq.”

Al-Hakim comments: This hadeeth is sahih in isnad, but doubtful in matan, as Ruqayyah died in the third year of Hijrah at the time of the victory in Badr, and Abu Hurayrah became Muslim after the victory of Khaybar, Allah knows best, and I have mentioned it with another isnad.

Then Al-Hakim gives the same hadeeth with another isnad, probably because one of Uthman’s decendants was in the first isnad and people may doubt the isnad which is sahih, although the actual content of the hadeeth (matan) perplexes his scholarly mind.

So Al-Hakim proves that the isnad all the way to Abu Hurayrah was sahih, and Abu Hurayrah clearly claims that he entered into her house. How is that so? How is this explained within the boundaries of metaphysics and quantum physics? Was this a miracle of Abu Hurayrah? Subhanallah!

The next one is also very clear that Abu Hurayrah portrays himself explicitly that he was part of the people preying behind the Prophet :

Sahih Bukhari, Volume 1, Book 8, Number 469:

Narrates Ibn Sirin:

Abu Huraira said, "Allah's Apostle led us in one of the two 'Isha' prayers (Abu Huraira named that prayer but I forgot it)." Abu Huraira added, "He prayed two Rakat and then finished the prayer with Tasllm. He stood up near a piece of wood Lying across the mosque and leaned on it in such a way as if he was angry. Then he put his right hand over the left and clasped his hands by interlacing his fingers and then put his J right cheek on the back of his left hand. The people who were in haste left the mosque through its gates. They wondered whether the prayer was reduced. And amongst them were Abu Bakr and 'Umar but they hesitated to ask the Prophet. A long-handed man called Dhul-Yadain asked the Prophet, 'O Allah's Apostle! Have you; forgotten or has the prayer been reduced?' The Prophet replied, 'I have neither forgotten nor has the prayer been reduced' The Prophet added, 'Is what Dhul Yadain has said true?' They (the people) said, 'Yes, it is true.' The Prophet stood up again and led the prayer, completing the remaining prayer, forgotten by him, and performed Talsrm, and then said, 'Allahu Akbar.' And then he did a prostration as he used to prostrate or longer than that. He then raised his head saying, 'Allahu Akbar; he then again said, 'Allahu Akbar', and prostrated as he used to prostrate or longer than that. Then he raised his head and said, 'Allahu Akbar.' " (The subnarrator added, "I think that they asked (Ibn Sirin) whether the Prophet completed the prayer with Taslim. He replied, "I heard that 'Imran bin Husain had said, 'Then he (the Prophet) did Taslim.")

Abu Hurayrah clearly says that he was part of the prayers behind the Prophet on this occasion when the Prophet supposedly forgot how many rakats he prayed.

At the same time, Dhul-Yadain was also present, who was martyred in the battle of Badr. This must mean that this occasion occurred before the battle of Badr, when Abu Hurayrah had not even met the Prophet yet.

Sahih Bukhari ,Volume 5, Book 59, Number 541:

Narrated Abu Huraira:

When we conquered Khaibar, we gained neither gold nor silver as booty, but we gained cows, camels, goods and gardens. Then we departed with Allah's Apostle to the valley of Al-Qira, and at that time Allah's Apostle had a slave called Mid'am who had been presented to him by one of Banu Ad-Dibbab. While the slave was dismounting the saddle of Allah's Apostle an arrow the thrower of which was unknown, came and hit him. The people said, "Congratulations to him for the martyrdom." Allah's Apostle said, "No, by Him in Whose Hand my soul is, the sheet (of cloth) which he had taken (illegally) on the day of Khaibar from the booty before the distribution of the booty, has become a flame of Fire burning him." On hearing that, a man brought one or two leather straps of shoes to the Prophet and said, "These are things I took (illegally)." On that Allah's Apostle said, "This is a strap, or these are two straps of Fire."

Here Abu Hurayrah places himself in the battle of Khaibar, in which he had absolutely no role in. He first came to Madinah when the Prophet and his army were out for the battle of Khaibar, so he stayed behind and lived in the mosques.

Again he does the same thing in another hadith:

Sahih Bukhari, Volume 5, Book 59, Number 515:

Narrated Abu Huraira:

We witnessed (the battle of) Khaibar. Allah's Apostle said about one of those who were with him and who claimed to be a Muslim. "This (man) is from the dwellers of the Hell-Fire." When the battle started, that fellow fought so violently and bravely that he received plenty of wounds. Some of the people were about to doubt (the Prophet's statement), but the man, feeling the pain of his wounds, put his hand into his quiver and took out of it, some arrows with which he slaughtered himself (i.e. committed suicide). Then some men amongst the Muslims came hurriedly and said, "O Allah's Apostle! Allah has made your statement true so-and-so has committed suicide. "The Prophet said, "O so-and-so! Get up and make an announcement that none but a believer will enter Paradise and that Allah may support the religion with an unchaste (evil) wicked man.

Now he says explicitly “we witnessed the battle of Khaibar”. How much more does one need to prove his tadlees? Forget mere Tadlees, he is actually LYING now, by saying that he was a witness to the battle. And a scholar like Mohammad ibn Ismail al-Bukhari, they greatest muhaddith of Ahlus-Sunnah, couldn’t even pick this up.

Furthermore, the historical inaccuracy of the event is displayed as the suicidal man died in the battle of Uhud, not Khaiber, years before Abu Hurayrah came to Madinah.

I thought I’d only give two hadeeths to show Abu Hurayrah’s bad habits, but apparently the Sunnis were still in denial. Hopefully these more explicit ahadith will make them think and doubt a bit more, albeit they come back and create more excuses. But coming to the right path begins in this way most of the time..

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Salaam Alaykum

3) You seem to be obsessed with the Ummayads and you see them everywhere... and this very often clouds your view and judgement;

In Shia Islam, one of the five "Principles of the Religion" (Similar to your "Six Articles of Faith") is "Justice". We talk about the Umayyads so that we don't give them a free ride with everyone thinking they were good people, for they weren't. This doesn't cloud anyone's view or judgement because it seems like we Shia always give intelligent answers to your objections. :)

How come there are things attributed to the Imams without any chain whatsover... when the Imams lived thousands of years later and were NOT the first Rawi?

You don't know about this, do you? The words were said by the Imams (peace be upon them) themselves and written after they were said (much like the Qur'an). The Imams (peace be upon them) usually said: "My father, [insert Imam's name here] said that his father, [insert Imam's name here]..." etc.

Also, authentic Shia books such as "Nahj al-Balagha" is seen as authentic by nearly all Sunni scholars and all Shia scholars. One man (living hundreds of years after it was written) objected to you saying nonsense that was easily silenced. Nowadays, only people blinded by ignorance and hate (such as the Wahhabi scholars) object to Nahj al-Balagha's authenticity and they provide no reason or a stupid reason that is easily refuted by all but their blind followers.

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(bismillah)

i don`t know why these sunnis are defending Abu Hurayra the biggest liar in history. He who himself is saying that he is narrating from his "bag".

In al mustadrak;

ÇáÍÇßã - ÇáãÓÊÏÑß - ßÊÇÈ ÇáÊÝÓíÑ - ÑÞã ÇáÍÏíË : ( 3327 )

3285 - ÃÎÈÑäí ÃÈæ ÈßÑ ãÍãÏ Èä ÃÍãÏ ÇáãÒßì ÈãÑæ ËäÇ ÚÈÏ Çááå Èä ÑæÍ ÇáãÏÇíäí ËäÇ íÒíÏ Èä åÇÑæä ÃäÈà åÔÇã Èä ÍÓÇä Úä ãÍãÏ Èä ÓíÑíä Úä ÃÈí åÑíÑÉ ÑÖí Çááå Úäå ÞÇá ÞÇá áí ÚãÑ íÇ ÚÏæ Çááå æÚÏæ ÇáÇÓáÇã ÎäÊ ãÇá Çááå ÞÇá ÞáÊ áÓÊ ÚÏæ Çááå æáÇ ÚÏæ ÇáÇÓáÇã æáßäí ÚÏæ ãä ÚÇÏÇåãÇ æáã ÃÎä ãÇá Çááå æáßäåÇ ÃËãÇä ÇÈáì æÓåÇã ÇÌÊãÚÊ ÞÇá ÝÃÚÇÏåÇ Úáì æÇÚÏÊ Úáíå åÐÇ ÇáßáÇã ÞÇá ÝÛÑãäí ÇËäì ÚÔÑ ÃáÝÇ ÞÇá ÝÞãÊ Ýí ÕáÇÉ ÇáÛÏÇÉ ÝÞáÊ Çááåã ÇÛÝÑ áÃãíÑ ÇáãÄãäíä ÝáãÇ ßÇä ÈÚÏ Ðáß ÃÑÇÏäí Úáì ÇáÚãá ÝÃÈíÊ Úáíå ÝÞÇá æáã æÞÏ ÓÃá íæÓÝ ÇáÚãá æßÇä ÎíÑÇ ãäß ÝÞáÊ Çä íæÓÝ äÈí ÇÈä äÈí ÇÈä äÈí ÇÈä äÈí æÇäÇ ÇÈä ÃãíãÉ æÇäÇ ÃÎÇÝ ËáÇËÇ æÇËäÊíä ÞÇá ÃæáÇ ÊÞæá ÎãÓÇ ÞáÊ áÇ ÞÇá ÝãÇ åä ÞáÊ ÃÎÇÝ Çä ÃÞæá ÈÛíÑ Úáã æÇä ÃÝÊì ÈÛíÑ Úáã æÇä íÖÑÈ ÙåÑí æÇä íÔÊã ÚÑÖí æÇä íÄÎÐ ãÇáí ÈÇáÖÑÈ ¡ åÐÇ ÍÏíË ÈÇÓäÇÏ ÕÍíÍ Úáì ÔÑØ ÇáÔíÎíä æáã íÎÑÌÇå.

Abu Hurayra says himself that Umar called him 3aduv Allah (enemy of god) and 3aduv al islam (enemy of islam)...

Al hakim says that this hadith is SAHIH.

http://www.islamweb.net/ver2/archive/showH...8&startno=5

You can find this hadith as well in al tabakat al kubra and in almusannaf 3abdalrazak al san3aniy and in tarikh madinet dimasqh and in sharh nahj al balagha!

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