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thulfikar

For The Lovers Of Muàwiyah, Yazid & Aisha

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Br. If you have issue, it is not with us, but with the Prophet (pbuh) for it is he (pbuh) who said (and this is from Sahih Bukhari, numbering is per online english translations)

Volume 9, Book 88, Number 190:

Narrated:

The statement of the Prophet: Whoever takes up arms against us, is not from us."

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Volume 9, Book 88, Number 191:

Narrated 'Abdullah bin 'Umar:

Allah's Apostle said, "Whoever takes up arms against us, is not from us."

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Volume 9, Book 88, Number 192:

Narrated Abu Musa:

The Prophet said, "Whoever takes up arms against us, is not from us."

---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

So... what DO you say (put aside that we are talking about Aisha, Muawiya (LA) etc., but think in anonymous terms) about someone who fights a "rightfully guided caliph" according to the sunnis? Do you consider them Muslim? Do you consider them on the right path? Do you consider them worthy of emulation (i.e. following their example and judgement)? I really think that part of the issue with sunnis accepting and thinking rationally and logically, is that they put such emphasis on the titles (such as sahaba, caliph, mothers of believers) as if the titles elevate the people above all error and criticism. But if one says the deeds without disclosing the names of these people, or their "title", then the deeds are viewed as reprehensible by all.

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(salam)

Well, the Prophet(saws) didn't take to highly of people that cursed Imam Ali(as) and engaged in warfare against him. Cursing Ali(as) is cursing the Prophet(Saws). There should be no protest in criticism of Muawiya once one knows this.

Thats wonderful to know. You should spread this truth to your Sunni colleges.

everyone I know and discuss this subject with knows my stand on it!!

I do praise the fact that they built the Aqsa mosque and the dome of the rock though!!

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Br. If you have issue, it is not with us, but with the Prophet (pbuh) for it is he (pbuh) who said (and this is from Sahih Bukhari, numbering is per online english translations)

Volume 9, Book 88, Number 190:

Narrated:

The statement of the Prophet: Whoever takes up arms against us, is not from us."

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Volume 9, Book 88, Number 191:

Narrated 'Abdullah bin 'Umar:

Allah's Apostle said, "Whoever takes up arms against us, is not from us."

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Volume 9, Book 88, Number 192:

Narrated Abu Musa:

The Prophet said, "Whoever takes up arms against us, is not from us."

---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

So... what DO you say (put aside that we are talking about Aisha, Muawiya (LA) etc., but think in anonymous terms) about someone who fights a "rightfully guided caliph" according to the sunnis? Do you consider them Muslim? Do you consider them on the right path? Do you consider them worthy of emulation (i.e. following their example and judgement)? I really think that part of the issue with sunnis accepting and thinking rationally and logically, is that they put such emphasis on the titles (such as sahaba, caliph, mothers of believers) as if the titles elevate the people above all error and criticism. But if one says the deeds without disclosing the names of these people, or their "title", then the deeds are viewed as reprehensible by all.

I personally do not take the stand on opposing a Khalifah or a misguided ruler many people take, I think it is our mission as individuals to make sure the leaders stay on the right path and if they don't they they have to go! and don't get wrong here, I am not saying that Hadrat Ali(K.A.W) was...and believe me if I tell you that I think what S.Ayishah (r ) did was NOT RIGHT! as she herself acknowledged! but was it worth labeling her as Kafir?? and promote the cursing and mocking and all that?

Many people think that she did hold a grudge against Imam Ali (K.A.W) because he suggested that Sayiduna Muhammad (SAAWS)should divorce her right after the (Ifk) incident! and she shouldn't have done so(if the claim was true)..she let her emotions rule over her sacred duty of being the holy prophet(SAAWS)'s wife!

So to answer your question,do I consider them Muslim? yes, I do ..and I will leave the judgment to most knowledgeable of all(SWT) to determine if her faith in him(SWT) and the massage of his last prophet(SAAWS) was sincere!

So to sum my point up I say this:

For those of you who curse Mu'awiya and whomever else besides the members of sayiduna Muhammad(SAAWS)'s household- in the broader term- do that as much as you want...if it reaches them in the darkness of their graves then you nailed your target! Good job!

For those of you who go further to touch the domain of Sayiduna Muhammad(SAAWS)..I do advice you to refrain from doing so because it is not a common territory! if you think you can do so in the presence of Sayiduna Muhammad(SAAWS) then more power to you! I myself think that it is way beyond our reach as simple Abeed of Allah(SWT) to talk about his messenger's wife like that!

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and how can you say that other prophets (pbuh) chose bad wives, but it is impossible for Prophet (pbuh) to have married a bad woman? Prophet Lut (as) and Nuh (as) are not their wives, nor are they judged for their wives actions. Same with any prophet (as) or any person for that matter.

Fact: Qur'an puts forth the example for the wives of the Prophet (pbuh). Maryam (as) and Asiya (as) for good examples, wives of Nuh and Lut as bad examples (examples of what to avoid). Allah (SWT) did that, not fallible people like me or you or anyone else here.

Fact: Wives of the prophet (pbuh) continued to live after him, they were not infallible and some undoubtedly made mistakes.

Fact: Qur'an (i.e. Allah (SWT) telling them DIRECTLY) that wives of the Prophet (pbuh) due to their status and connection to Prophet (pbuh) are rewarded DOUBLY for good deeds and punished DOUBLY for open transgressions (which I don't think anyone can reasonably disagree that the battle of Jamal was an open transgression)

Fact: Sunnis consider it a very serious thing to fight the caliph of their time, makes the person a baghi (rebel). yet we see Aisha and Muawiya (LA) both fighting wars with Ali (as) the rightful caliph of their time.

Also, Prophet Muhammad (pbuh)&HP said to Imam Ali (as) "None loves you except a believer, and none hates you except a hypocrite." Narrated by Muslim, al-Nasa'i, and Ahmad

Now, what does Qur'an say about hypocrites???

Now where, if you don't mind, is protection from all sins and serious errors for the wives of the Prophet (pbuh) stated in Qur'an? Because I have brought forth what Qur'an says and the examples set forth, BOTH GOOD AND BAD, for the wives of the Prophet (pbuh), and even the promise of double PUNISHMENT for transgressions (which means that the possibility existed for them to sin, err, etc. OPENLY)

Sister Aliya,

Your famous loathing of Aisha is gaining you quite a reputation

http://www.http://www.*****************.com/articles/ahlel-bayt/ghusl

Edited by ofoshoukno

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Allow me to tell you,from my basic knowledge..

They curse:

Abu bakir (ra) ,Omar Al-farook (ra) ,Othman bin Affan (ra) ,Hardat Ayishah (ra) ,Azzubayr (ra) , Talha (ra) ,as well as the Umayyah clan starting with Mu'awiyah,then Yazeed and so on ...Some of them exclude Omar bin Abdil-Aziz.

Correct me if I was wrong or if I didn't include any one else.Oh ya, and Amro bin El-A'as,right?

Hmmmm, so they give preference to Banu Hashim over Banu Ummayyah? Whatever happened to everyone being equal as in terms with the Prophet's last sermon?

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Sister Aliya,

Your famous loathing of Aisha is gaining you quite a reputation

http://www.http://www.*****************.com/articles/ahlel-bayt/ghusl

Off topic, but I also note the "author" picked and chose through what he thought he could refute, and didn't address some other major points (such as which brother this supposedly was, since her elder brothers knew Prophet (pbuh) and could've asked him themselves, and her younger brother grew up in the household of Imam Ali (as) who could've just as effctively taught them ghusl; or why Aisha would have to do ghusl even if to remind herself. Women do ghusl on a regular basis due to menstruation, so can't figure why she would have to do it to reminder herself.

the rest of the "article" was pretty much baseless ranting against shias and not so much actual refutation

Also, the "author" failed to mention that I repeatedly said that I didn't believe the hadith based on several flaws, such as the ones I mentioned above. How is it slander of Aisha, or hatred for Aisha, to say I don't believe the hadith or the implications thereof???

Now, back ON TOPIC

Edited by Aliya

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(bismillah)

(salam)

@brother/sister 7ayran

Let´s talk in the first point about Rasulallahs (sa.) love to Aisha;

-Sunni Ahadith tell us that Aisha was 13 years old and in other Ahadith its told that she was 9 years old.

Now do you realy think that rasolallah (sa.) was in love with a kid? I don`t thing that rasolallah was so perverse(hasha).

That was all politics!

Take a look in your Sihahs;

Umar Ibn al-Khattab reported: When Allah's Apostle (may peace be upon him) kept himself away from his wives, I entered the mosque and found people striking the ground with pebbles and saying: Allah's Messenger (may peace be upon him) has divorced his wives, and that was before they were commanded to observe seclusion. Umar said to himself: I must find this today. So I went to Aisha and said (to her): O Daughter of Abu Bakr, have you gone to the extent of giving trouble to the Allah's Messenger (may peace be upon him)? Thereupon she said: Son of Khattab! You have nothing to do with me. You should look to your own receptacle (i.e., your own defects, or your own daughter). He (Umar) said: I visited Hafsa, daughter of Umar and said to her: O Hafsa! This (news) has reached me that you cause Allah's Messenger (may peace be upon him) trouble. By Allah! You know that Allah's Messenger (may peace be upon him) does not love you, and had I not been (your father) he would have divorced you. (On hearing this) she wept bitterly ...

Sahih Muslim

i think its clear why Rasolallah (sa.) married Aisha & Hafsa, Umar tells us clear that Rasolallah (sa.) did not love her and had he (Umar) not been Rasulallah (sa.) would divorce her. So what is the reason to marry anyone you do not love?

Now to point 2;

You call Aisha "as-sidika", would a sidika tell lies or go against the koran or be jealous?

The lie;

When Asma Bint Nu'man was being led as a bride to her groom (i.e., the Prophet), Aisha told her that the Prophet was highly pleased with the woman who, when he approaches her, says to him: "May Allah save me from you."

al-Mustadrak, by al-Hakim, v4, p37, on the account of Asma

al-Isabah, by Ibn Hajar al-Asqalani, v4, p233

she clearly tells her a lie!

the jealousy;

Aisha said: "Safiyya, the wife of the Prophet (PBUH&HF), sent a dish she had made for him when he was with me. When I saw the maidservant, I trembled with rage and fury, and I took the bowl and hurled it away. The Prophet of Allah (PBUH&HF) then looked at me; I saw the anger in his face and I said to him: 'I seek refuge from Allah's Apostle cursing me today.' The Prophet said: 'Undo it'. I said: 'What is its compensation, O Prophet of Allah?' He said: 'The food like her food, and a bowl like her bowl.'"

Musnad, by Ahmad Ibn Hanbal, v6, p227

Sahih al-Nisa'i, v2, p148

or;

Narrated Umar:

The wives of the Prophet out of their jealousy, backed each other against the Prophet, so I said to them, "It may be, if he divorced you all, that Allah will give him, instead of you wives better than you." So this Verse (66.5) was revealed.

[66:5] If he divorces you, his Lord will substitute other wives in your place who are better than you; submitters (Muslims), believers (Mu'mins), obedient, repentant, worshipers, pious, either previously married, or virgins

Sahih Bukhari Hadith: 6.438

Narrated Ibn Abbas:

I intended to ask Umar so I said, "Who were those two ladies who tried to back each other against the Prophet?" I hardly finished my speech when he said, They were Aisha and Hafsa."

Sahih Bukhari Hadith: 6.436

Is this a conduct of a SIDIKA??? Subhanallah she tells lies, she was jealous even Allah warns her and hafsa that Allah will give rasolallah (a.s.) wives who were

"submitters (Muslims), believers (Mu'mins), obedient, repentant, worshipers, pious"

you call her sidika, but she was even warned by Allah in the koran,Allah would not warn someone who is a sidik or a sidika...the only sidika was Our mother Fatima Az-Zahra 3aleyha as-salam!

She did not listen to Koran;

033.033

YUSUFALI: And stay quietly in your houses, and make not a dazzling display, like that of the former Times of Ignorance; and establish regular Prayer, and give regular Charity; and obey Allah and His Messenger. And Allah only wishes to remove all abomination from you, ye members of the Family, and to make you pure and spotless.

PICKTHAL: And stay in your houses. Bedizen not yourselves with the bedizenment of the Time of Ignorance. Be regular in prayer, and pay the poor-due, and obey Allah and His messenger. Allah's wish is but to remove uncleanness far from you, O Folk of the Household, and cleanse you with a thorough cleansing.

SHAKIR: And stay in your houses and do not display your finery like the displaying of the ignorance of yore; and keep up prayer, and pay the poor-rate, and obey Allah and His Messenger. Allah only desires to keep away the uncleanness from you, O people of the House! and to purify you a (thorough) purifying.

There a few Sunni brothers who claim that aisha did not act against this when she went out to war in jamal.

Let`s take a look in your books;

ahmad bin hanbal

ÃÍãÏ Èä ÍäÈá - ÒåÏ - ÒåÏ ÚÇÆÔÉ

920 - ÍÏËäÇ ÚÈÏ Çááå ¡ ÍÏËäÇ ÃÈí ¡ ÍÏËäÇ ÚÈÏ ÇáÑÍãä Èä ãåÏí ¡ Úä ÓÝíÇä ¡ Úä ÇáÃÚãÔ ¡ Úä ÃÈí ÇáÖÍì ¡ ÍÏËäÇ ãä ÓãÚ ÚÇÆÔÉ ÊÞÑà : æÞÑä Ýí ÈíæÊßä ÝÊÈßí ÍÊì ÊÈá ÎãÇÑåÇ.

"when she read the ayah 33.33 she wept until her...get wet!

or in Tafsir Qurtubi;

ÊÝÓíÑ ÇáÞÑØÈí - æÞÑä Ýí ÈíæÊßäø æáÇ ÊÈÑÌä ÊÈÑÌ ÇáÌÇåáíÉ ÇáÇæáì - ÇáÃÍÒÇÈ : ( 33 )

- ÐßÑ ÇáËÚáÈí æÛíÑå : Ãä ÚÇÆÔÉ ( Ñ ) ßÇäÊ ÅÐÇ ÞÑÃÊ åÐå ÇáÂíÉ ÊÈßí ÍÊì ÊÈá ÎãÇÑåÇ . æÐßÑ Ãä ÓæÏÉ Þíá áåÇ : áã áÇ ÊÍÌíä æáÇ ÊÚÊãÑíä ßãÇ íÝÚá ÃÎæÇÊß ¿ ÝÞÇáÊ : ÞÏ ÍÌÌÊ æÇÚÊãÑÊ , æÃãÑäí Çááå Ãä ÃÞÑ Ýí ÈíÊí . ÞÇá ÇáÑÇæí : ÝæÇááå ãÇ ÎÑÌÊ ãä ÈÇÈ ÍÌÑÊåÇ ÍÊì ÃÎÑÌÊ ÌäÇÒÊåÇ ÑÖæÇä Çááå ÚáíåÇ .

- ÞÇá ÅÈä ÚØíÉ : ÈßÇÁ ÚÇÆÔÉ ( Ñ ) ÅäãÇ ßÇä ÈÓÈÈ ÓÝÑåÇ ÃíÇã ÇáÌãá , æÍíäÆÐ ÞÇá áåÇ ÚãÇÑ : Åä Çááå ÞÏ ÃãÑß Ãä ÊÞÑí Ýí ÈíÊß.

http://quran.al-islam.com/Tafseer/DispTafs...&tashkeel=0

you can find also find this hadith in "ÇáÈíåÞí - ÇáÅÚÊÞÇÏ - ÈÇÈ ÅÓÊÎáÇÝ ÃÈí ÇáÍÓä ( Ú )" or in

ÇáÐåÈí - ÓíÑ ÃÚáÇã ÇáäÈáÇÁ - ÇáÌÒÁ : ( 2 ) - ÑÞã ÇáÕÝÍÉ : ( 177 ) or in ãÍãÏ Èä ÓÚÏ - ÇáØÈÞÇÊ ÇáßÈÑì - ÇáÌÒÁ : ( 8 ) - ÑÞã ÇáÕÝÍÉ : ( 81 ) !!!

So its clear again that she act against this ayah, and he who acts against a ayah is acting against the koran, and he who acts against the koran can not be called SIDIKA neither be a real mu`min!

And not to forget how many Muslims did die because of Aishas fatal mistake and hate to Imam Ali (a.s)..they were thousands muslims.

And you still call her Sidika.

No tell us who is responsible for this,so many muslims died?

004.093

YUSUFALI: If a man kills a believer intentionally, his recompense is Hell, to abide therein (For ever): And the wrath and the curse of Allah are upon him, and a dreadful penalty is prepared for him.

PICKTHAL: Whoso slayeth a believer of set purpose, his reward is hell for ever. Allah is wroth against him and He hath cursed him and prepared for him an awful doom.

SHAKIR: And whoever kills a believer intentionally, his punishment is hell; he shall abide in it, and Allah will send His wrath on him and curse him and prepare for him a painful chastisement.

because of aisha not only one believer died, thousands of muslims died! And why? Because she did not listen to Quran!

Is Aisha truely a SIDIKA?

The Messenger of Allah (PBUH&HF) said: "The most excellent of the women of all worlds whom Allah chose over all women are: Asiya the wife of Pharaoh, Mary the daughter of Imran, Khadija the daughter of Khuwaylid, and Fatimah the daughter of Muhammad."

al-Tirmidhi, v5, p702

al-Mustadrak, by al-Hakim, v3, p157, who said this tradition is authentic based on the criteria of two Shaikhs (al-Bukhari and Muslim)

Musnad Ahmad Ibn Hanbal, v3, p135

can you see the name of Aisha? The real SIDIK AL AKBAR are Imam Ali and Fatima Az-Zahra (3aleyhum Assalam).

The most ahadith who speaks positive about Aisha mostly narrated by her. :angel:

Further Rasulallah (sa.) tell us about Aisha;

Narrated Abdullah:

The Prophet stood up and delivered a sermon, and pointed to the house of Aisha, and said: "Fitna (trouble/sedition) is right here," saying three times, "and from where the side of the Satan's head comes out."

Sahih al-Bukhari Hadith: 4.336

Aisha=Fitnah no need to comment! please compare As-Sidika and Satan's head... i don`t think its the same!

And now to come to the next point, our sunni friends often posts the same rubbish " she is the mother of believers..." or um al mu`miniyn " and and and.....Don`t they now that this is no merit for her,they even don´t know why this ayah came down.

First to begin with this, all sunni female did you know that aisha is not your mother??? That`s right Aisha is not your mother according to Aisha.

so please this read this sunni hadith clearly;

Al Bayhaqi

ÇáÈíåÞí - ÇáÓää ÇáßÈÑì - ÇáÌÒÁ : ( 7 ) - ÑÞã ÇáÕÝÍÉ : ( 70 )

12570 - ÃÎÈÑäÇ Úáí Èä ÃÍãÏ Èä ÚÈÏÇä ¡ ÃäÈà ÃÍãÏ Èä ÚÈíÏ ¡ ËäÇ ÅÈä ÃÈí ÞãÇÔ ¡ ËäÇ ÅÈä ÚÇÆÔÉ ¡ ËäÇ ÃÈæ ÚæÇäÉ ¡ Úä ÝÑÇÓ ¡ Úä ÚÇãÑ ¡ Úä ãÓÑæÞ ¡ Úä ÚÇÆÔÉ ( Ñ ) Ãä ÇãÑÃÉ ÞÇáÊ áåÇ : íÇ Ããå ¡ ÝÞÇáÊ : ÃäÇ Ãã ÑÌÇáßã áÓÊ ÈÃãß.

A woman said to Aisha "oh mother" Aisha answered " I am the mother of your husbands and not your mother"

the same in Tabakat al Kubra;

ÅÈä ÓÚÏ - ÇáØÈÞÇÊ ÇáßÈÑì - ÐßÑ ÃÒæÇÌ Óæá.

9609 - ÍÏËäÇ åÔÇã ÃÈæ ÇáæáíÏ ÇáØíÇáÓí ÍÏËäÇ ÃÈæ ÚæÇäÉ Úä ÝÑÇÓ Úä ÚÇãÑ ¡ Úä ãÓÑæÞ : Ãä ÇãÑÃÉ ÞÇáÊ áÚÇÆÔÉ : íÇ Ããå . ÝÞÇáÊ : áÓÊ ÈÃãß ¡ ÃäÇ Ãã ÑÌÇáßã.

Or Tafsir Al-Qurtubi

ÇáÞÑØÈí - ÊÝÓíÑ ÇáÞÑØÈí - ÇáÌÒÁ : ( 14 ) - ÑÞã ÇáÕÝÍÉ : ( 123 )

- æÇÎÊáÝ ÇáäÇÓ åá åä ÃãåÇÊ ÇáÑÌÇá æÇáäÓÇÁ Ãã ÃãåÇÊ ÇáÑÌÇá ÎÇÕÉ ¡ Úáì Þæáíä : ÝÑæì ÇáÔÚÈí Úä ãÓÑæÞ Úä ÚÇÆÔÉ ( Ñ ) Ãä ÇãÑÃÉ ÞÇáÊ áåÇ : íÇ ÃãÉ ¡ ÝÞÇáÊ áåÇ : áÓÊ áß ÈÃã ¡ ÅäãÇ ÃäÇ Ãã ÑÌÇáßã ¡ ÞÇá ÅÈä ÇáÚÑÈí : æåæ ÇáÕÍíÍ .

"A woman said to Aisha > oh mother< Aisha answered > i am not your mother,i am the mother of your husbands<

And Ibin Al-3arbiy said...this is what is Sahih!

This Hadith is also in Musnad bin Ahmad ãÓäÏ ÃÍãÏ - ÈÇÞí ãÓäÏ ÇáÃäÕÇÑ - ÈÇÞí ÇáãÓäÏ ÇáÓÇÈÞ - ÑÞã ÇáÍÏíË : ( 23983 )

Here the link http://hadith.al-islam.com/Display/Display...23983&doc=6

So why is Aisha not the Mother of the female believers????

Because a woman could not marry Aisha, the reason is that al talha or az-zubair said in the lifetime of the Prophet "when rasolallah is dead then i will marry Aisha" Because of this Allah send down the well known Ayah about the the mothers of believers. And not about Aisha because she was so a great Mu´mina.

If you read Quran you would understand it...actually its simple the Quran also forbids you to marry your mother and that is in the same principle.

Also look in your books like;

Al Suyuti ÇáÓíæØí - ÇáÏÑ ÇáãäËæÑ - ÇáÌÒÁ : ( 5 ) - ÑÞã ÇáÕÝÍÉ : ( 183 )

æÃÎÑÌ ÅÈä ÃÈì ÍÇÊã Úä ÞÊÇÏÉ ( Ñ ) Ýí Þæáå æÃÒæÇÌå ÃãåÇÊåã íÞæá ÃãåÇÊåã Ýí ÇáÍÑãÉ áÇ íÍá áãÄãä Çä íäßÍ ÇãÑÃÉ ãä äÓÇÁ ÇáäÈí (Õ) Ýí ÍíÇÊå Çä ØáÞ æáÇ ÈÚÏ ãæÊå åí ÍÑÇã Úáì ßá ãÄãä ãËá ÍÑãÉ Ããå .

- æÃÎÑÌ ÅÈä ÓÚÏ æÅÈä ÇáãäÐÑ æÇáÈíåÞí Ýí Óääå Úä ÚÇÆÔÉ Çä ÇãÑÃÉ ÞÇáÊ áåÇ íÇ Ããå ÝÞÇáÊ ÃäÇ Ãã ÑÌÇáßã æáÓÊ Ãã äÓÇÆßã .

http://www.al-eman.com/Islamlib/viewchp.as...p;SW=ÑÌÇáßã#SR1

"The mothers of believers are haram to a mu`min to marry her in rasulallahs (sa.) life or if he(sa.) have divorced her or after his(sa.) death"

and also in Al-Bayhaqi

ÇáÈíåÞí - ÇáÓää ÇáßÈÑì - ßÊÇÈ ÇáäßÇÍ

- ÈÇÈ ÊÓãíÉ ÃÒæÇÌ ÇáäÈí (Õ) æÈäÇÊå æÊÒæíÌå ÈäÇÊå æÝí Ðáß ÏáÇáÉ Úáì Ãä Þæáå : ÃãåÇÊåã íÚäí Ýí ãÚäì Ïæä ãÚäì æÐáß Ãäåã áÇ íÍá áåã äßÇÍåä ÈÍÇá , æáÇ íÍÑã Úáíåã äßÇÍ ÈäÇÊåä áæ ßÇä áåä ÈäÇÊ ßãÇ íÍÑã Úáíåã äßÇÍ ÈäÇÊ ÃãåÇÊåã ÇááÇÊí æáÏäåã Ãæ ÃÑÖÚäåã

i hope you have understand the reason why they are called "umm Al Mu´minyn"!?!?

I will open a new thread about Aishas exaggerations.

vasalam

þ

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Brother zulfigar, I bet you he will not read it and come back saying BUT Allah IN KORAN FORGAVE HER ,,becuase she did not worship other Gods,,,,,did I miss the posts were 7ayran listed those ayat purifing Aisha's name??

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When Asma Bint Nu'man was being led as a bride to her groom (i.e., the Prophet), Aisha told her that the Prophet was highly pleased with the woman who, when he approaches her, says to him: "May Allah save me from you."

al-Mustadrak, by al-Hakim, v4, p37, on the account of Asma

al-Isabah, by Ibn Hajar al-Asqalani, v4, p233

Either provide an accurate hadith number so people can actually locate the alleged ahadith instead of ambigous page numbers retained from your c/p. The least one can expect when you're c/ping from AA or SE is that you double check the narrations yourself but alas it is not so. I want to see sanad for the hadith or the number for the hadith, or it is not binding on anyone. And in any case, Mustadrak al Hakim is known for it's mistakes and neither those books is part of Sahih Sittah.
Sahih al-Nisa'i, v2, p148

Sahih by whom? This is ambiguous. If a hadith is ruled by some alim as Sahih from Sunan an Nisa'i than who was the alim in the case? Show the source from the kitab where the alim published his conclusion.

Narrated Abdullah:

The Prophet stood up and delivered a sermon, and pointed to the house of Aisha, and said: "Fitna (trouble/sedition) is right here," saying three times, "and from where the side of the Satan's head comes out."

Sahih al-Bukhari Hadith: 4.336

Misleading removals from the translator:

The Prophet stood up and delivered a sermon, and pointing to 'Aisha's house (i.e. eastwards), he said thrice, "Affliction (will appear from) here," and, "from where the side of the Satan's head comes out (i.e. from the East)."

He(saw) pointed in the direction of Aisha's house, not literally at her house (nor did he imply that he meant her house and the are to subsequently become his grave)

Conveniently of course you don't mention the numerous ahadith where the entire context of the hadith is there which are narrated by numerous isnad and Sahabah:

Narrated Abu Masud: The Prophet pointed with his hand towards Yemen and said twice, "Faith is there," and then pointed towards the East, and said, "Verily, sternness and mercilessness are the qualities of those who are busy with their camels and pay no attention to their religion, where the two sides of the head of Satan will appear," namely, the tribes of Rabl'a and Muqar. (7/223)

Narrated 'Uqba bin 'Umar and Abu Mas'ud: Allah's Apostle pointed with his hand towards Yemen and said, "True Belief is Yemenite yonder (i.e. the Yemenite, had True Belief and embraced Islam readily), but sternness and mercilessness are the qualities of those who are busy with their camels and pay no attention to the Religion where the two sides of the head of Satan will appear. Such qualities belong to the tribe of Rabi'a and Mudar." (4/521)

Narrated Ibn 'Umar: (The Prophet) said, "O Allah! Bless our Sham and our Yemen." People said, "Our Najd as well." The Prophet again said, "O Allah! Bless our Sham and Yemen." They said again, "Our Najd as well." On that the Prophet said, "There will appear earthquakes and afflictions, and from there will come out the side of the head of Satan." (2/147)

Malik related to me from Abu'z-Zinad from al-Araj from Abu Hurayra that the Messenger of Allah, may Allah bless him and grant him peace, said, "The head of kufr is towards the east. Boasting and price is among people who have horses and camels. The loud-voiced people are the people of tents (the Bedouins). Tranquillity is with the people who have sheep." (Muwatta of Imam Malik 54/15)

Ibn Fudail reported on the authority of his father that he heard Salim b. 'Abdullah b. 'Umar as saying: O people of Iraq, how strange it is that you ask about the minor sins but commit major sins? I heard from my father 'Abdullah b. 'Umar, narrating that he heard Allah's Messenger (may peace be upon him) as saying while pointing his hand towards the east: Verily. the turmoil would come from this side, from where appear the horns of Satan and you would strike the necks of one another; and Moses killed a person from among the people of Pharaoh unintentionally and Allah, the Exalted and Glorious, said:" You killed a person but We relieved you from the grief and tried you with (many a) trial" (xx. 40). Ahmad b. Umar reported this hadith from Salim, but he did not make a mention of the words:" I heard".

(Muslim 41/6943)

Ibn 'Umar reported that Allah's Messenger (may peace be upon him) stood by the door (of the apartment of) gafsa and, pointing towards the east, he said: The turmoil would appear from this side, viz. where the horns of Satan would appear, and he uttered these words twice or thrice and Ubaidullah b. Sa'ld in his narration said. The Messenger of Allah (may peace be upon him) had been standing by the door of 'A'isha.

(6939)

SO WHAT ARE THE TRIALS AND TIRBULATIONS?:

...He (Dajjal) would be a young man with twisted, contracted hair, and a blind eye. I compare him to 'Abd-ul-'Uzza b. Qatan. He who amongst you would survive to see him should recite over him the opening verses of Sura Kahf (xviii.). He would appear on the way between Syria and Iraq and would spread mischief right and left...

(Muslim 41/7015)

...An angel with a sword in his hand would confront me and would bar my way and there would be angels to guard every passage leading to it; then Allah's Messenger (may peace be upon him) striking the pulpit with the help of the end of his staff said: This implies Taiba meaning Medina. Have I not, told you an account (of the Dajjal) like this? 'The people said: Yes, and this account narrated by Tamim Dari was liked by me for it corroborates the account which I gave to you in regard to him (Dajjal) at Medina and Mecca. Behold he (Dajjal) is in the Syrian sea (Mediterranian) or the Yemen sea (Arabian sea). Nay, on the contrary, he As In the east, he is in the east, he is in the east, and he pointed with his hand towards the east. I (Fatima bint Qais) said: I preserved It In my mind (this narration from Allah's Messenger (may peace be upon him). (7028)

Trials and tirbulations = Coming of Qiyamah =/= Ai'sha (ra)...

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Salaam Alaiqum,

Yaa Ali Madad haq hai haq hai haq hai

Munafiqs love n respect lanti muawiya

(bismillah)

(salam)

@brother/sister 7ayran

Let´s talk in the first point about Rasulallahs (sa.) love to Aisha;

-Sunni Ahadith tell us that Aisha was 13 years old and in other Ahadith its told that she was 9 years old.

Now do you realy think that rasolallah (sa.) was in love with a kid? I don`t thing that rasolallah was so perverse(hasha).

That was all politics!

I will open a new thread about Aishas exaggerations.

vasalam

Excellent post !!

jazakallah brother Thulfikar

Just a post to add by Admin Wilayah

(SUNNI SOURCES)

Here you go sis, save a copy of this before they add East, West, North or South to the Arabic too.

....Narrated Abdullah (ra):

Sahih bukhari: Khums: What was narrated about the houses of the Prophet's wives.

Moussa bin Ismael narrates from Juwairiya from Nafi from Abdallah (May Allah be pleased with him) who said: "The Prophet (peace be upon him) stood up to speak. He pointed towards the house of Ayesha and said, "there lies the fitna three time; from there the horns of the devils will emerge"

http://www.shiachat.com/forum/index.php?sh...59367&st=25

Admin Wiayah had scanned and attached the page

Allah Hafiz

Yaa Ali Madad

Hussainayet Zindabad

yazeediyet +his lanti father muawiya +his so called father abu sufyan murdabad

Firoz Ali

post-4532-1169290797_thumb.jpg

Edited by Firoz Ali

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(bismillah)

(salam)

@brother/sister 7ayran

Let´s talk in the first point about Rasulallahs (sa.) love to Aisha;

-Sunni Ahadith tell us that Aisha was 13 years old and in other Ahadith its told that she was 9 years old.

Now do you realy think that rasolallah (sa.) was in love with a kid? I don`t thing that rasolallah was so perverse(hasha).

That was all politics!

Take a look in your Sihahs;

Umar Ibn al-Khattab reported: When Allah's Apostle (may peace be upon him) kept himself away from his wives, I entered the mosque and found people striking the ground with pebbles and saying: Allah's Messenger (may peace be upon him) has divorced his wives, and that was before they were commanded to observe seclusion. Umar said to himself: I must find this today. So I went to Aisha and said (to her): O Daughter of Abu Bakr, have you gone to the extent of giving trouble to the Allah's Messenger (may peace be upon him)? Thereupon she said: Son of Khattab! You have nothing to do with me. You should look to your own receptacle (i.e., your own defects, or your own daughter). He (Umar) said: I visited Hafsa, daughter of Umar and said to her: O Hafsa! This (news) has reached me that you cause Allah's Messenger (may peace be upon him) trouble. By Allah! You know that Allah's Messenger (may peace be upon him) does not love you, and had I not been (your father) he would have divorced you. (On hearing this) she wept bitterly ...

Sahih Muslim

i think its clear why Rasolallah (sa.) married Aisha & Hafsa, Umar tells us clear that Rasolallah (sa.) did not love her and had he (Umar) not been Rasulallah (sa.) would divorce her. So what is the reason to marry anyone you do not love?

Now to point 2;

You call Aisha "as-sidika", would a sidika tell lies or go against the koran or be jealous?

The lie;

When Asma Bint Nu'man was being led as a bride to her groom (i.e., the Prophet), Aisha told her that the Prophet was highly pleased with the woman who, when he approaches her, says to him: "May Allah save me from you."

al-Mustadrak, by al-Hakim, v4, p37, on the account of Asma

al-Isabah, by Ibn Hajar al-Asqalani, v4, p233

she clearly tells her a lie!

the jealousy;

Aisha said: "Safiyya, the wife of the Prophet (PBUH&HF), sent a dish she had made for him when he was with me. When I saw the maidservant, I trembled with rage and fury, and I took the bowl and hurled it away. The Prophet of Allah (PBUH&HF) then looked at me; I saw the anger in his face and I said to him: 'I seek refuge from Allah's Apostle cursing me today.' The Prophet said: 'Undo it'. I said: 'What is its compensation, O Prophet of Allah?' He said: 'The food like her food, and a bowl like her bowl.'"

Musnad, by Ahmad Ibn Hanbal, v6, p227

Sahih al-Nisa'i, v2, p148

or;

Narrated Umar:

The wives of the Prophet out of their jealousy, backed each other against the Prophet, so I said to them, "It may be, if he divorced you all, that Allah will give him, instead of you wives better than you." So this Verse (66.5) was revealed.

[66:5] If he divorces you, his Lord will substitute other wives in your place who are better than you; submitters (Muslims), believers (Mu'mins), obedient, repentant, worshipers, pious, either previously married, or virgins

Sahih Bukhari Hadith: 6.438

Narrated Ibn Abbas:

I intended to ask Umar so I said, "Who were those two ladies who tried to back each other against the Prophet?" I hardly finished my speech when he said, They were Aisha and Hafsa."

Sahih Bukhari Hadith: 6.436

Is this a conduct of a SIDIKA??? Subhanallah she tells lies, she was jealous even Allah warns her and hafsa that Allah will give rasolallah (a.s.) wives who were

"submitters (Muslims), believers (Mu'mins), obedient, repentant, worshipers, pious"

you call her sidika, but she was even warned by Allah in the koran,Allah would not warn someone who is a sidik or a sidika...the only sidika was Our mother Fatima Az-Zahra 3aleyha as-salam!

She did not listen to Koran;

033.033

YUSUFALI: And stay quietly in your houses, and make not a dazzling display, like that of the former Times of Ignorance; and establish regular Prayer, and give regular Charity; and obey Allah and His Messenger. And Allah only wishes to remove all abomination from you, ye members of the Family, and to make you pure and spotless.

PICKTHAL: And stay in your houses. Bedizen not yourselves with the bedizenment of the Time of Ignorance. Be regular in prayer, and pay the poor-due, and obey Allah and His messenger. Allah's wish is but to remove uncleanness far from you, O Folk of the Household, and cleanse you with a thorough cleansing.

SHAKIR: And stay in your houses and do not display your finery like the displaying of the ignorance of yore; and keep up prayer, and pay the poor-rate, and obey Allah and His Messenger. Allah only desires to keep away the uncleanness from you, O people of the House! and to purify you a (thorough) purifying.

There a few Sunni brothers who claim that aisha did not act against this when she went out to war in jamal.

Let`s take a look in your books;

ahmad bin hanbal

ÃÍãÏ Èä ÍäÈá - ÒåÏ - ÒåÏ ÚÇÆÔÉ

920 - ÍÏËäÇ ÚÈÏ Çááå ¡ ÍÏËäÇ ÃÈí ¡ ÍÏËäÇ ÚÈÏ ÇáÑÍãä Èä ãåÏí ¡ Úä ÓÝíÇä ¡ Úä ÇáÃÚãÔ ¡ Úä ÃÈí ÇáÖÍì ¡ ÍÏËäÇ ãä ÓãÚ ÚÇÆÔÉ ÊÞÑà : æÞÑä Ýí ÈíæÊßä ÝÊÈßí ÍÊì ÊÈá ÎãÇÑåÇ.

"when she read the ayah 33.33 she wept until her...get wet!

or in Tafsir Qurtubi;

ÊÝÓíÑ ÇáÞÑØÈí - æÞÑä Ýí ÈíæÊßäø æáÇ ÊÈÑÌä ÊÈÑÌ ÇáÌÇåáíÉ ÇáÇæáì - ÇáÃÍÒÇÈ : ( 33 )

- ÐßÑ ÇáËÚáÈí æÛíÑå : Ãä ÚÇÆÔÉ ( Ñ ) ßÇäÊ ÅÐÇ ÞÑÃÊ åÐå ÇáÂíÉ ÊÈßí ÍÊì ÊÈá ÎãÇÑåÇ . æÐßÑ Ãä ÓæÏÉ Þíá áåÇ : áã áÇ ÊÍÌíä æáÇ ÊÚÊãÑíä ßãÇ íÝÚá ÃÎæÇÊß ¿ ÝÞÇáÊ : ÞÏ ÍÌÌÊ æÇÚÊãÑÊ , æÃãÑäí Çááå Ãä ÃÞÑ Ýí ÈíÊí . ÞÇá ÇáÑÇæí : ÝæÇááå ãÇ ÎÑÌÊ ãä ÈÇÈ ÍÌÑÊåÇ ÍÊì ÃÎÑÌÊ ÌäÇÒÊåÇ ÑÖæÇä Çááå ÚáíåÇ .

- ÞÇá ÅÈä ÚØíÉ : ÈßÇÁ ÚÇÆÔÉ ( Ñ ) ÅäãÇ ßÇä ÈÓÈÈ ÓÝÑåÇ ÃíÇã ÇáÌãá , æÍíäÆÐ ÞÇá áåÇ ÚãÇÑ : Åä Çááå ÞÏ ÃãÑß Ãä ÊÞÑí Ýí ÈíÊß.

http://quran.al-islam.com/Tafseer/DispTafs...&tashkeel=0

you can find also find this hadith in "ÇáÈíåÞí - ÇáÅÚÊÞÇÏ - ÈÇÈ ÅÓÊÎáÇÝ ÃÈí ÇáÍÓä ( Ú )" or in

ÇáÐåÈí - ÓíÑ ÃÚáÇã ÇáäÈáÇÁ - ÇáÌÒÁ : ( 2 ) - ÑÞã ÇáÕÝÍÉ : ( 177 ) or in ãÍãÏ Èä ÓÚÏ - ÇáØÈÞÇÊ ÇáßÈÑì - ÇáÌÒÁ : ( 8 ) - ÑÞã ÇáÕÝÍÉ : ( 81 ) !!!

So its clear again that she act against this ayah, and he who acts against a ayah is acting against the koran, and he who acts against the koran can not be called SIDIKA neither be a real mu`min!

And not to forget how many Muslims did die because of Aishas fatal mistake and hate to Imam Ali (a.s)..they were thousands muslims.

And you still call her Sidika.

No tell us who is responsible for this,so many muslims died?

004.093

YUSUFALI: If a man kills a believer intentionally, his recompense is Hell, to abide therein (For ever): And the wrath and the curse of Allah are upon him, and a dreadful penalty is prepared for him.

PICKTHAL: Whoso slayeth a believer of set purpose, his reward is hell for ever. Allah is wroth against him and He hath cursed him and prepared for him an awful doom.

SHAKIR: And whoever kills a believer intentionally, his punishment is hell; he shall abide in it, and Allah will send His wrath on him and curse him and prepare for him a painful chastisement.

because of aisha not only one believer died, thousands of muslims died! And why? Because she did not listen to Quran!

Is Aisha truely a SIDIKA?

The Messenger of Allah (PBUH&HF) said: "The most excellent of the women of all worlds whom Allah chose over all women are: Asiya the wife of Pharaoh, Mary the daughter of Imran, Khadija the daughter of Khuwaylid, and Fatimah the daughter of Muhammad."

al-Tirmidhi, v5, p702

al-Mustadrak, by al-Hakim, v3, p157, who said this tradition is authentic based on the criteria of two Shaikhs (al-Bukhari and Muslim)

Musnad Ahmad Ibn Hanbal, v3, p135

can you see the name of Aisha? The real SIDIK AL AKBAR are Imam Ali and Fatima Az-Zahra (3aleyhum Assalam).

The most ahadith who speaks positive about Aisha mostly narrated by her. :angel:

Further Rasulallah (sa.) tell us about Aisha;

Narrated Abdullah:

The Prophet stood up and delivered a sermon, and pointed to the house of Aisha, and said: "Fitna (trouble/sedition) is right here," saying three times, "and from where the side of the Satan's head comes out."

Sahih al-Bukhari Hadith: 4.336

Aisha=Fitnah no need to comment! please compare As-Sidika and Satan's head... i don`t think its the same!

And now to come to the next point, our sunni friends often posts the same rubbish " she is the mother of believers..." or um al mu`miniyn " and and and.....Don`t they now that this is no merit for her,they even don´t know why this ayah came down.

First to begin with this, all sunni female did you know that aisha is not your mother??? That`s right Aisha is not your mother according to Aisha.

so please this read this sunni hadith clearly;

Al Bayhaqi

ÇáÈíåÞí - ÇáÓää ÇáßÈÑì - ÇáÌÒÁ : ( 7 ) - ÑÞã ÇáÕÝÍÉ : ( 70 )

12570 - ÃÎÈÑäÇ Úáí Èä ÃÍãÏ Èä ÚÈÏÇä ¡ ÃäÈà ÃÍãÏ Èä ÚÈíÏ ¡ ËäÇ ÅÈä ÃÈí ÞãÇÔ ¡ ËäÇ ÅÈä ÚÇÆÔÉ ¡ ËäÇ ÃÈæ ÚæÇäÉ ¡ Úä ÝÑÇÓ ¡ Úä ÚÇãÑ ¡ Úä ãÓÑæÞ ¡ Úä ÚÇÆÔÉ ( Ñ ) Ãä ÇãÑÃÉ ÞÇáÊ áåÇ : íÇ Ããå ¡ ÝÞÇáÊ : ÃäÇ Ãã ÑÌÇáßã áÓÊ ÈÃãß.

A woman said to Aisha "oh mother" Aisha answered " I am the mother of your husbands and not your mother"

the same in Tabakat al Kubra;

ÅÈä ÓÚÏ - ÇáØÈÞÇÊ ÇáßÈÑì - ÐßÑ ÃÒæÇÌ Óæá.

9609 - ÍÏËäÇ åÔÇã ÃÈæ ÇáæáíÏ ÇáØíÇáÓí ÍÏËäÇ ÃÈæ ÚæÇäÉ Úä ÝÑÇÓ Úä ÚÇãÑ ¡ Úä ãÓÑæÞ : Ãä ÇãÑÃÉ ÞÇáÊ áÚÇÆÔÉ : íÇ Ããå . ÝÞÇáÊ : áÓÊ ÈÃãß ¡ ÃäÇ Ãã ÑÌÇáßã.

Or Tafsir Al-Qurtubi

ÇáÞÑØÈí - ÊÝÓíÑ ÇáÞÑØÈí - ÇáÌÒÁ : ( 14 ) - ÑÞã ÇáÕÝÍÉ : ( 123 )

- æÇÎÊáÝ ÇáäÇÓ åá åä ÃãåÇÊ ÇáÑÌÇá æÇáäÓÇÁ Ãã ÃãåÇÊ ÇáÑÌÇá ÎÇÕÉ ¡ Úáì Þæáíä : ÝÑæì ÇáÔÚÈí Úä ãÓÑæÞ Úä ÚÇÆÔÉ ( Ñ ) Ãä ÇãÑÃÉ ÞÇáÊ áåÇ : íÇ ÃãÉ ¡ ÝÞÇáÊ áåÇ : áÓÊ áß ÈÃã ¡ ÅäãÇ ÃäÇ Ãã ÑÌÇáßã ¡ ÞÇá ÅÈä ÇáÚÑÈí : æåæ ÇáÕÍíÍ .

"A woman said to Aisha > oh mother< Aisha answered > i am not your mother,i am the mother of your husbands<

And Ibin Al-3arbiy said...this is what is Sahih!

This Hadith is also in Musnad bin Ahmad ãÓäÏ ÃÍãÏ - ÈÇÞí ãÓäÏ ÇáÃäÕÇÑ - ÈÇÞí ÇáãÓäÏ ÇáÓÇÈÞ - ÑÞã ÇáÍÏíË : ( 23983 )

Here the link http://hadith.al-islam.com/Display/Display...23983&doc=6

So why is Aisha not the Mother of the female believers????

Because a woman could not marry Aisha, the reason is that al talha or az-zubair said in the lifetime of the Prophet "when rasolallah is dead then i will marry Aisha" Because of this Allah send down the well known Ayah about the the mothers of believers. And not about Aisha because she was so a great Mu´mina.

If you read Quran you would understand it...actually its simple the Quran also forbids you to marry your mother and that is in the same principle.

Also look in your books like;

Al Suyuti ÇáÓíæØí - ÇáÏÑ ÇáãäËæÑ - ÇáÌÒÁ : ( 5 ) - ÑÞã ÇáÕÝÍÉ : ( 183 )

æÃÎÑÌ ÅÈä ÃÈì ÍÇÊã Úä ÞÊÇÏÉ ( Ñ ) Ýí Þæáå æÃÒæÇÌå ÃãåÇÊåã íÞæá ÃãåÇÊåã Ýí ÇáÍÑãÉ áÇ íÍá áãÄãä Çä íäßÍ ÇãÑÃÉ ãä äÓÇÁ ÇáäÈí (Õ) Ýí ÍíÇÊå Çä ØáÞ æáÇ ÈÚÏ ãæÊå åí ÍÑÇã Úáì ßá ãÄãä ãËá ÍÑãÉ Ããå .

- æÃÎÑÌ ÅÈä ÓÚÏ æÅÈä ÇáãäÐÑ æÇáÈíåÞí Ýí Óääå Úä ÚÇÆÔÉ Çä ÇãÑÃÉ ÞÇáÊ áåÇ íÇ Ããå ÝÞÇáÊ ÃäÇ Ãã ÑÌÇáßã æáÓÊ Ãã äÓÇÆßã .

http://www.al-eman.com/Islamlib/viewchp.as...p;SW=ÑÌÇáßã#SR1

"The mothers of believers are haram to a mu`min to marry her in rasulallahs (sa.) life or if he(sa.) have divorced her or after his(sa.) death"

and also in Al-Bayhaqi

ÇáÈíåÞí - ÇáÓää ÇáßÈÑì - ßÊÇÈ ÇáäßÇÍ

- ÈÇÈ ÊÓãíÉ ÃÒæÇÌ ÇáäÈí (Õ) æÈäÇÊå æÊÒæíÌå ÈäÇÊå æÝí Ðáß ÏáÇáÉ Úáì Ãä Þæáå : ÃãåÇÊåã íÚäí Ýí ãÚäì Ïæä ãÚäì æÐáß Ãäåã áÇ íÍá áåã äßÇÍåä ÈÍÇá , æáÇ íÍÑã Úáíåã äßÇÍ ÈäÇÊåä áæ ßÇä áåä ÈäÇÊ ßãÇ íÍÑã Úáíåã äßÇÍ ÈäÇÊ ÃãåÇÊåã ÇááÇÊí æáÏäåã Ãæ ÃÑÖÚäåã

i hope you have understand the reason why they are called "umm Al Mu´minyn"!?!?

I will open a new thread about Aishas exaggerations.

vasalam

þ

(salam)

Brother,not sis..

wow, good job man,I haven't checked your references but I will when I have the chance...

I did not say she was "siddika"..I said Sayyida! but ,nevertheless,she was a Siddika as well...

Our religion is one that does give everyone a chance for (Tawbah)...so -even though I do not share your view on Sayyida Ayishah( r ) that she committed that heinous of a crime - she surely regretted it ÝÊÈßí ÍÊì ÊÈá ÎãÇÑåÇ..that to me is a clear indication that she was not a KAFIR!

And when you say that our holy prophet(SAAWS) pointed at her house and said"and from where the side of the Satan's head comes out." and then he still kept her as his wife!! does that make any sense?? Islam is a religion that was based on facts and only WORDS taking out of context!! this is how we conquered the hearts and minds of people...So if tradition tells you he(SAAWS) had the knowledge of what's going to come out of that house(which was on the side of his Masjid) ,but on the other hand DID NOT DO ANYTHING about it! what would that make him look like(Astaghfirullah)!!!!

Sunnah is is not only what the prophet (SAAWS) said..it is also what he done ..so provide me with some Hadeeth that clearly tells me that -based on the one you gave us- the prophet(SAAWS) changed the way he treated sayyida Ayishah( R ) after he told the Mumineen that the head of the devil will come out of the same place Hadrat Jibreel(AS) visited and the prophet prayed and performed all kinds of Ibadat!! are you kidding me???

"-Sunni Ahadith tell us that Aisha was 13 years old and in other Ahadith its told that she was 9 years old.

Now do you really think that rasolallah (sa.) was in love with a kid? I don`t thing that rasolallah was so perverse(hasha).

That was all politics!

Take a look in your Sihahs;

Umar Ibn al-Khattab reported: When Allah's Apostle (may peace be upon him) kept himself away from his wives, I entered the mosque and found people striking the ground with pebbles and saying: Allah's Messenger (may peace be upon him) has divorced his wives, and that was before they were commanded to observe seclusion. Umar said to himself: I must find this today. So I went to Aisha and said (to her): O Daughter of Abu Bakr, have you gone to the extent of giving trouble to the Allah's Messenger (may peace be upon him)? Thereupon she said: Son of Khattab! You have nothing to do with me. You should look to your own receptacle (i.e., your own defects, or your own daughter). He (Umar) said: I visited Hafsa, daughter of Umar and said to her: O Hafsa! This (news) has reached me that you cause Allah's Messenger (may peace be upon him) trouble. By Allah! You know that Allah's Messenger (may peace be upon him) does not love you, and had I not been (your father) he would have divorced you. (On hearing this) she wept bitterly ...

Sahih Muslim

i think its clear why Rasolallah (sa.) married Aisha & Hafsa, Umar tells us clear that Rasolallah (sa.) did not love her and had he (Umar) not been Rasulallah (sa.) would divorce her. So what is the reason to marry anyone you do not love? "

Now, are you telling me that sayiduna Muhammad(SAAWS) would not love a CHILD but he would a full RELATIONSHIP with her?? she was his wife so I ask all of you here to keep the nowadays standards aside and DO NOT APPLY THEM on people of Arabia in the seventh century!! Dude, my gramma was married at the age of 11 less than seventy years ago!! women reached the age of puberty earlier back in those days than they do now!! He did love her...and if you want to go back to those standards then explain this to me:

You Shia brothers(and sisters) believe that Sayiduna Muhammad (SAAWS) considered Hadrat Ali (K.A.W) as his brother with all that the word would imply!! would any of you now agree to give his daughter to his brother to have as a wife????? For Allah's sake stop applying your double standards on this issue to prove your point! things have changed ..people used to do things they do not do now, so what was acceptable back than is not now.But it doesn't necessarily mean it was wrong!

The proof you provided clearly states that Hafsa was the one giving Rasoolullah (SAAWS) trouble...eventhough he didn't clarify that and didn't mention anyone by the name! he said "his wives"..then Omar (ra) tells his daughter that Muhammad(SAAWS) does not love her(Hafsa).

Politics,you say? so you are telling me that S.Muhammad had to use his marriage to the SAHABA (ra)'s daughters to gain there hearts???or was it only to get their financial support? what kind of Muslim would say that about his prophet(SAAWS)??

Ittakillah! as you will stand in front of him and you will be asked about what made up about his Rasool(SAAWS)!

Wassalaam!

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Brother zulfigar, I bet you he will not read it and come back saying BUT Allah IN KORAN FORGAVE HER ,,becuase she did not worship other Gods,,,,,did I miss the posts were 7ayran listed those ayat purifing Aisha's name??

(salam)

I guess you did ..go back and read them and the reason they were revealed then get back to me with your -pretty much predictable- response.

You have hatred toward the wife of raoolullah(SAAWS). but I will reiterate the fact that Allah is the most merciful! ..he offers mercy .you show none!!

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Br. If you have issue, it is not with us, but with the Prophet (pbuh) for it is he (pbuh) who said (and this is from Sahih Bukhari, numbering is per online english translations)

Volume 9, Book 88, Number 190:

Narrated:

The statement of the Prophet: Whoever takes up arms against us, is not from us."

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Volume 9, Book 88, Number 191:

Narrated 'Abdullah bin 'Umar:

Allah's Apostle said, "Whoever takes up arms against us, is not from us."

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Volume 9, Book 88, Number 192:

Narrated Abu Musa:

The Prophet said, "Whoever takes up arms against us, is not from us."

---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

So... what DO you say (put aside that we are talking about Aisha, Muawiya (LA) etc., but think in anonymous terms) about someone who fights a "rightfully guided caliph" according to the sunnis? Do you consider them Muslim? Do you consider them on the right path? Do you consider them worthy of emulation (i.e. following their example and judgement)? I really think that part of the issue with sunnis accepting and thinking rationally and logically, is that they put such emphasis on the titles (such as sahaba, caliph, mothers of believers) as if the titles elevate the people above all error and criticism. But if one says the deeds without disclosing the names of these people, or their "title", then the deeds are viewed as reprehensible by all.

This still hasn't been responded to...

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(salam)

I guess you did ..go back and read them and the reason they were revealed then get back to me with your -pretty much predictable- response.

You have hatred toward the wife of raoolullah(SAAWS). but I will reiterate the fact that Allah is the most merciful! ..he offers mercy .you show none!!

no bro .,, i did NOT FIND IT ANYWHERE in the koran that Allah forgave her I was waiting for you to bring that verse ,and I do not hate her I just do not make her perfect . You hate us because we VERBALLY attack her and omar and baker ,,you call us RAWAFID just for listing thier history you hate us and make us kufar yet,,,,t when she DECLARES war on Prophits saaw family when he SPECIFICALY TOLD her not to ,,,,you do not aloow us some reaction to her actions?

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This still hasn't been responded to...

People are judged by their intention.

"Actions are (judged) by motives (niyyah), so each man will have what he intended. Thus, he whose migration (hijrah) was to Allah and His Messenger, his migration is to Allah and His Messenger; but he whose migration was for some worldly thing he might gain, or for a wife he might marry, his migration is to that for which he migrated."

[Al-Bukhari & Muslim]

(<a href="http://fortyhadith.iiu.edu.my/hadith01.htm">Hadith 1 from An Nawawi's 40</a>)

An example is: " What could be seen as ghibah (backbiting - talking bad, but true, things about a person behind his back) could simply be a joke or a dua. If someone talks bad about someone else, it is his intentions, which determines whether it is ghibah or not."

Naila, a wife of Uthman had misled Mu'awiyah concerning his death because she falsely thought Ali was responsible. The fact that he didn't hand them over didn't help his case. Mu'awiyah's and Aisha's intent was not ill than:

(1) They (wrongly) had thought Ali responsible

(2) They wanted to enact Bay'at ar Ridwan and feared Ali had gone back on it as he didn't hand over the criminals (though in a subsequent treaty he agreed with Mu'awiyah on the matter after arbitration was called for by Mu'awiyah)

And even if we took that narration you mentioned at face value and ignored the importance of the above narration ("This Hadith is one third of the knowledge of Islam") we are still faced with another narration:

"When two Muslims meet and one of them bears arms against his brother, they are both on the brink of Hell, and if one of them kills the other they will both enter it."

(Miskat al Masabih, Book of retaliation, chapter 5, section 1, narrated from the 2 Sahihs)

So regardless of who initiated the battle, both parties are the losers in the hereafter since the "victim" party would've killed their opponents had they the chance.

Waallahu Alam

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AOA.

Some people are really really thick - as in stupid.

I am not pointing any fingers, just making a general observation.

Anyway I had to ask deathpasser, whose name conjures up all sorts of questions about the deadly nature of flatulence, what on earth kind of rubbish he believes in.

You actually believe that had H.Ali(as) killed Moaviya lanatulla that H.Ali(as) would be condemned in the hereafter???? :!!!: :!!!: :!!!: :!!!: :!!!: :!!!:

And some people are totally bonkers.

Not pointing fingers, just an observation.

The Prophet(s) said that Haq is with Ali and whichever way Ali turns Haq will follow.

Ponder on this, it may help YOU in the hereafter.

Regards

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People are judged by their intention.

"Actions are (judged) by motives (niyyah), so each man will have what he intended. Thus, he whose migration (hijrah) was to Allah and His Messenger, his migration is to Allah and His Messenger; but he whose migration was for some worldly thing he might gain, or for a wife he might marry, his migration is to that for which he migrated."

[Al-Bukhari & Muslim]

(<a href="http://fortyhadith.iiu.edu.my/hadith01.htm">Hadith 1 from An Nawawi's 40</a>)

An example is: " What could be seen as ghibah (backbiting - talking bad, but true, things about a person behind his back) could simply be a joke or a dua. If someone talks bad about someone else, it is his intentions, which determines whether it is ghibah or not."

Naila, a wife of Uthman had misled Mu'awiyah concerning his death because she falsely thought Ali was responsible. The fact that he didn't hand them over didn't help his case. Mu'awiyah's and Aisha's intent was not ill than:

(1) They (wrongly) had thought Ali responsible

(2) They wanted to enact Bay'at ar Ridwan and feared Ali had gone back on it as he didn't hand over the criminals (though in a subsequent treaty he agreed with Mu'awiyah on the matter after arbitration was called for by Mu'awiyah)

And even if we took that narration you mentioned at face value and ignored the importance of the above narration ("This Hadith is one third of the knowledge of Islam") we are still faced with another narration:

"When two Muslims meet and one of them bears arms against his brother, they are both on the brink of Hell, and if one of them kills the other they will both enter it."

(Miskat al Masabih, Book of retaliation, chapter 5, section 1, narrated from the 2 Sahihs)

So regardless of who initiated the battle, both parties are the losers in the hereafter since the "victim" party would've killed their opponents had they the chance.

Waallahu Alam

WAallah Alam right but you certainly do not know because you take the question and answer as if you are giving a lecture that really does not answer

sister Aliya asked you about these sources and you answer with niyah and fitnah and who started what and who pleeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeaseee just a simple answer ok ?

1) Did she DISOBEY the rassoul sa and Allah swt or no?by leaving the house

2) did she upset Imam Ali sa ( aginst the Rassoul sa wishes) yes or no ?

4) we speak against sahaba we are Rawafid , she fights Imam Ali she made a mistake?

5) You blame fitnah ??? wow that is good,,, so muawiha or his wife is a good and trusted souce of information for her to belive and fall for?

it is not disputed that he wa sFASIQ right?

So if you beloved father wish is for you not to fight your brother , then some bad source tells you that your bother is planning to fight you you go gather a gang and beat him up ..no ? I tell you what

1) If you LOVE your brother you would verify the source 1st

2) if you do NOT LOVE HIM Then you grab the excuse

So please blaming it on fitnah is even worse fo her because for someone who lives, loved and breathed with teh rasoul sa ,, whom insisted that All mou2meeenin beware of fitnah and God swt also over and over aksed us to beware of fitnah she falls for it from a source close to maawiyah ??

Allah Yehdeena

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and sorry bother , but what do you mean who started the fight ,, it does not matter ? both loose?

we are not talking about a fight we aretalking about a war , alot died because of her ignorance and hate to or Imam....if somoeone attcks you at your home ,, you do what ? and by the way ,,your last sentence is all wrong ,it does not apply ,what did Imam Ali sa do ?

What did you just write up there in the end ?

So regardless of who initiated the battle, both parties are the losers in the hereafter since the "victim" party would've killed their opponents had they the chance.

ohhh ?

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...

Anyway I had to ask deathpasser, whose name conjures up all sorts of questions about the deadly nature of flatulence, what on earth kind of rubbish he believes in.

...

And some people are totally bonkers.

(1) Not pointing fingers, just an observation.

(2) The Prophet(s) said that Haq is with Ali and whichever way Ali turns Haq will follow.

Ponder on this, it may help YOU in the hereafter.

1) You don't need to point fingers when you name names, but thanks for stating the obvious.

2) I don't beleive in random ahadith which aren't substantiated until and unless they are. I could bring a narration from Al Kafi al Kulayni where a donkey is in the sanad or another narration where it is told that the Imams are born circumcized and excrete terds that smell like musk. I wouldn't expect you to swallow them if I didn't substantiate them with kutuwb on Shi'a rijal.

WAallah Alam right but you certainly do not know because you take the question and answer as if you are giving a lecture that really does not answer

sister Aliya asked you about these sources and you answer with niyah and fitnah and who started what and who pleeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeaseee just a simple answer ok ?

If a Christian asked you is Jesus Christ a mad man or the begotten son of God, would you answer him with "a simple answer" when he says pick one or the other? That's prepostorous. Certain questions can't be answered in the form of a 'yes/no' response. And none of the questions you posed underneath have anything to do with Aliya's posting of ahadith (to my knowledge and I haven't been through the entire thread)

5) You blame fitnah ??? wow that is good,,, so muawiha or his wife is a good and trusted souce of information for her to belive and fall for?

it is not disputed that he wa sFASIQ right?

You ask two questions in one. First of all, I didn't say HIS wife. I said the wife of Uthman had accused Ali when she sent the bloody shirt of Shaheed Uthman to Mu'awiyah.

As for part 2, I don't speak ill of the dead except if Muhemmed(saw) did so to some specific men. And I don't speak ill of Sahaba.

So if you beloved father wish is for you not to fight your brother , then some bad source tells you that your bother is planning to fight you you go gather a gang and beat him up ..no ? I tell you what

1) If you LOVE your brother you would verify the source 1st

2) if you do NOT LOVE HIM Then you grab the excuse

*sigh* What do you mean verify the source? Naila was in the house when Uthman died. she was his wife...

and sorry bother , but what do you mean who started the fight ,, it does not matter ? both loose?

we are not talking about a fight we aretalking about a war , alot died because of her ignorance and hate to or Imam....

The ahadith I mentioned are about war. And people did not die for her ignorance but because the munafiqeen had become deeply rooted in places of power and Ali had to wait before he acted on his pledge.
What did you just write up there in the end ?

So regardless of who initiated the battle, both parties are the losers in the hereafter since the "victim" party would've killed their opponents had they the chance.

ohhh ?

I don't know how to explain it better...

Narrated Al-Ahnaf bin Qais: I went to help that man (i.e., 'Ali), and on the way I met Abu Bakra who asked me, "Where are you going?" I replied, "I am going to help that man." He said, "Go back, for I heard Allah's Apostle saying, 'If two Muslims meet each other with their swords then (both) the killer and the killed one are in the (Hell) Fire.' I said, 'O Allah's Apostle! It is alright for the killer, but what about the killed one?' He said, 'The killed one was eager to kill his opponent."

(Bukhari 9/83/14)

And if two parties of believers fall to fighting, then make peace between them. And if one party of them doeth wrong to the other, fight ye that which doeth wrong till it return unto the ordinance of Allah; then, if it return, make peace between them justly, and act equitably. Lo! Allah loveth the equitable. The Believers are but a single Brotherhood: So make peace and reconciliation between your two (contending) brothers; and fear Allah, that ye may receive Mercy. (Quran 49/9-10)

Edited by deathpasser

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salam

your last reply was an anology I though you are anagainst those.

still ,,did she or did she not DISOBEY the profet and Allah swt?

did she fall for fitna or did she not?

did she fight Imam Ali or did she not?

did she upset him when reassoul sa said not to or did she not?

you dislike shia for attacking her but you do not dislike her for attacking imam ali sa?

straight answer do nto give us sunni stories of why ,,Nothing that came out of the profit was without meaning eveything evey word was WAHI no?

so when he FORBIEDS ( YANHI ) HIS good wifes from fighting his FAmily and we list it are we inventing???

Verify source of fitan if you LOVE SOMEONE AND YOU HEAR THEY ARE GOING TO HARM YOU you check before you ORGANIZE A WAR ? OR NOT? WHY IGNORE MY STRAIGHT FORWARD QUESTIONS???

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As much as they'd love to ignore it, but even thye don't have a choice but to admit that the Battle of Jamal took place between Aisha and Hazrat Ali a.s.

You seriously need to read history

or atleast real history not made up

I can't believe you guys cursing aisha like she wasn't the prophets wife

and we don't like yazid though we don't dislike him. You guys curse the hell out of him

you brought the hadeeth about fighting

though you guys repeatadly curse the companions

guys check your facts

and don't make up your own stories

god help them

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(salam)

(bismillah)

Why do Sunnis think that just because Aeshah was the Prophet Mohammad's (pbuh) wife, that she is exempt from criticism? Was the wife of Prophet Nuh (as) a pious person just because she was a prophet's wife? No!! Please think logically people.

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(salam)

(bismillah)

Why do Sunnis think that just because Aeshah was the Prophet Mohammad's (pbuh) wife, that she is exempt from criticism? Was the wife of Prophet Nuh (as) a pious person just because she was a prophet's wife? No!! Please think logically people.

Well why do you claim to love the prophet while you think his wife is a prostiute?

why did the prophet remain with her till the end? and love her the most

don't you think you need to think logically? just was the prophets wife ppl! wake up and stop cursing everyone that was good in islam!

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Well why do you claim to love the prophet while you think his wife is a prostiute?

why did the prophet remain with her till the end? and love her the most

don't you think you need to think logically? just was the prophets wife ppl! wake up and stop cursing everyone that was good in islam!

Sahih Bukhari Hadith: 6.436

Narrated Ibn Abbas:

I intended to ask Umar so I said, "Who were those two ladies who tried to back each other against the Prophet?" I hardly finished my speech when he said, They were Aisha and Hafsa."

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DP, since we cannot know what is in the hearts of people, except what is portrayed by their actions (actions, especially when they form a pattern, do give an indication of what is in a person's heart), and those actions are what we ARE able to judge by (if intention is pure that is between that person and Allah (SWT), but WE judge between good and bad ACTION, as that is what is visible to us, and Qur'an tells us to differentiate between good and bad).

So again I reiterate the last part of my post, which no one has addressed

So... what DO you say (put aside that we are talking about Aisha, Muawiya (LA) etc., but think in anonymous terms) about someone who fights a "rightfully guided caliph" according to the sunnis? Do you consider them Muslim? Do you consider them on the right path? Do you consider them worthy of emulation (i.e. following their example and judgement)? I really think that part of the issue with sunnis accepting and thinking rationally and logically, is that they put such emphasis on the titles (such as sahaba, caliph, mothers of believers) as if the titles elevate the people above all error and criticism. But if one says the deeds without disclosing the names of these people, or their "title", then the deeds are viewed as reprehensible by all.
Edited by Aliya

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DP, since we cannot know what is in the hearts of people, except what is portrayed by their actions (actions, especially when they form a pattern, do give an indication of what is in a person's heart), and those actions are what we ARE able to judge by (if intention is pure that is between that person and Allah (SWT), but WE judge between good and bad ACTION, as that is what is visible to us, and Qur'an tells us to differentiate between good and bad).

We judge by both action and stated intention. Her stated intention (to promote reconcillation and meet with Ali) was in accordance with 49/9-10.

Karbala

your last reply was an anology I though you are anagainst those.
No it wasn't...an anology is like the hadith where a man questioned your imam over the matter of forgivance of missed salah by women on their periods whereas they had to make up fasts.
still ,,did she or did she not DISOBEY the profet and Allah swt?

Not to my knowledge. If you can show she did disobey Allah(swt), mention complete verse(s) and surah.

did she fight Imam Ali or did she not?
She did not lead forces against Ali himself and the fight was ignited by other than Ali himself. Rowdy elements in a group are not representative of their leaders.
so when he FORBIEDS ( YANHI ) HIS good wifes from fighting his FAmily and we list it are we inventing???

His wives are his family, he forbids Muslims from fighting against the ummah.

WHY IGNORE MY STRAIGHT FORWARD QUESTIONS???

They're not straightforward. You want a black/white, yes/no to questions that require more explanation. I'm not calling Christ (as) as either a madman or a son of God so you expect me to call Aisha between two incorrect statements?

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DP, what RIGHT did Aisha have to go to war with a caliph even if we accept her "stated intention" of avenging the murder of Uthman? Uthman was not a relative of her's, and I thought only family had right to make such demands... Muawiya (LA) at least was a relative of Uthman, and had been asked by Uthman's widow... what leg does Aisha have to stand on in this regard? Not to mention that going to war without pursuing other PEACEFUL means, belies her "stated intention" of promoting reconciliation and meeting with Ali (as). can you bring ANY proof that she proposed, and Ali (as) rejected, ANY attempts at PEACEFUL resolution of this issue?

Also, you STILL ignore my post in which I've stated (and reiterated)

So... what DO you say (put aside that we are talking about Aisha, Muawiya (LA) etc., but think in anonymous terms) about someone who fights a "rightfully guided caliph" according to the sunnis? Do you consider them Muslim? Do you consider them on the right path? Do you consider them worthy of emulation (i.e. following their example and judgement)? I really think that part of the issue with sunnis accepting and thinking rationally and logically, is that they put such emphasis on the titles (such as sahaba, caliph, mothers of believers) as if the titles elevate the people above all error and criticism. But if one says the deeds without disclosing the names of these people, or their "title", then the deeds are viewed as reprehensible by all.
Edited by Aliya

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(bismillah)

(salam)

The Prophet stood up and delivered a sermon, and pointed to the house of Aisha, and said: "Fitna (trouble/sedition) is right here," saying three times, "and from where the side of the Satan's head comes out."

Do you realize that the Prophet (pbuh) was also pointing at his OWN house, since Aisha's (ra) house was his house too... in fact, this was the house where he (as) used to spent most of his time. Why did he (as) satyed and died in the same house? why did he (as) stayed and died on the laps of the same woman (ra)? Can anyone tell me?

Therefore, we need to pause and understand the meaning of all this.

I went back to Bukhari and checked. There are two narration with the same meaning. Here are they:

Narrated 'Abdullah:

The Prophet stood up and delivered a sermon, and pointing to 'Aisha's house (i.e. eastwards), he said thrice, "Affliction (will appear from) here," and, "from where the side of the Satan's head comes out (i.e. from the East)."

Narrated 'Abdullah:

I saw Allah's Apostle pointing towards the east saying, "Lo! Afflictions will verily emerge hence; afflictions will verily emerge hence where the (side of the head of) Satan appears." Volume 4, Book 54, Number 499: Narrated 'Abdullah bin 'Umar.

Combing the two narrations, by the same narrator, it seems the Prophet (pbuh) did point EAST, not necessarily to his OWN house. It is possible he was referring to the afflication from Yajooj and Majooj who will come from the East? May be something else?

Let us not forget that the house of Aisha (ra) was in fact the Masjid where the Prophet (as) led the prayers! So how could he (as) be delivering a sermon in the house of Aisha (ra) and be pointing at it and saying affliction will come from it? He can't point at the house when he was INSIDE it !!!

It just does not make sense.

The only explanation, combing the two narration, is that he was pointing at the eastern direction not the house itself.

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Do you realize that the Prophet (pbuh) was also pointing at his OWN house, since Aisha's (ra) house was his house too...

If that was the house of Prophet (pbuh) the why was that not given as Sadqah after the death of Prophet (pbuh) like fadak.

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and the first hadith says plainly "Aisha's house", east is inserted by the translator.

Also, Ali (as) said Prophet (pbuh) died on his chest, so... according to shia belief Prophet (pbuh) did not die on the lap of Aisha.

sermon 197 from Nahj Al-Balaghah states in part

When the Prophet - the peace and blessing of Allah be upon him and his descendants - died his head was on my chest, and his (last) breath blew over my palms and I passed it over my face. I performed his (funeral) ablution, may Allah bless him and his descendants, and the angels helped me. The house and the courtyard were full of them.

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AOA.

Why would he be lying on his chest just curious no disrespect and could be culutral I will not lay in another man's chest.

Now just from my limited knowledge:

H.Ali(as) was the cousin and son-in-law of the Prophet(s).

The Prophet(s) declared that H.Ali(as) was his brother in this world and the next on the day of brotherhood in Medina.

The Prophet(s) had brought up H.Ali(as) from a very early age and was like a father to him.

The Prophet(s), from the description of his last moments by H.Ali(as), was not lying on H.Ali's(as) chest, rather his head was resting against H.Ali's(as) chest.

Given the above there is nothing unusual.

A brother would cradle his dying brother.

A son would cradle his dying father.

Hope that makes it clearer.

Regards

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DP, (1) what RIGHT did Aisha have to go to war with a caliph even if we accept her "stated intention" of avenging the murder of Uthman? Uthman was not a relative of her's, and I thought only family had right to make such demands... Muawiya (LA) at least was a relative of Uthman, and had been asked by Uthman's widow... (2) what leg does Aisha have to stand on in this regard? Not to mention that going to war without pursuing other PEACEFUL means, belies her "stated intention" of promoting reconciliation and meeting with Ali (as). can you bring ANY proof that she proposed, and Ali (as) rejected, ANY attempts at PEACEFUL resolution of this issue?

(1) She didn't initiate the war, and by her stated intention, she went with objective of reconciliation. The war was started by the misguided elements of Shi'a(t) Ali. As I said in other thread, I don't have the books to individually confirm this (although that isn't too important amongst Shi'a who constantly running around here with c/p) and I'm recalling from an article by Ahlus Sunnah on the matter.

(2) Again, unlike Mu'awiyah, she wasn't going for war but reconciliation. Dialogue. What leg she has to stand on? She's ummal Muslimeen...

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