Allah Pleased With The Foremost Muhajrin - How Can You Deny?

[akeelabbas 1]

^^

Replying to the above post....brother learner...where does Allah commands(or tells) the Prophet(saww) to tell the Hypocrites "Believe as the people believe"....???????.......

...and if you are reffering to verse 2:13...then that verse starts not from there ...but it is a continuation...

Like this:

Quran 2:8-13

Of the people there are some who say: "We believe in Allah and the Last Day;" but they do not (really) believe. Fain would they deceive Allah and those who believe, but they only deceive themselves, and realise (it) not! In their hearts is a disease; and Allah has increased their disease: And grievous is the penalty they (incur), because they are false (to themselves). When it is said to them: "Make not mischief on the earth," they say: "Why, we only Want to make peace!" Of a surety, they are the ones who make mischief, but they realise (it) not. When it is said to them: "Believe as the others believe:" They say: "Shall we believe as the fools believe?" Nay, of a surety they are the fools, but they do not know. "

--------------

Where does Medina come..???...where is the Prophet(saww) over here..??...

This is in reference to the general PEOPLE.....

Yes, it surely says that these are hypocrites, but nowhere does medina, or mecca, or "FROM THE MUSLIMS" DOES IT PICKS UP...IT PICKS UP FROM THE ENTIRE MANKIND.."Wamina alnnasi".....NOT FROM THE MUSLIMS !

So,

From the entire mankind, there are some who say they believe in Allah and the Last Day(that is they only say they are muslims).

These are the so-called muslims in the community, who are ashamed to call themselves as muslims in front of their unbelieving friends!

How do you explain verses ?

Edited December 23, 2006 by akeelabbas

[learner 0]

Where does Medina come..???...

The verses were revealed in Madinah. Most of Surah Baqarah was revealed in Madinah. "Of the people" refers to the Medinites, "are those who say we believe in Allah and the Last Day" refers to those who claimed to follow the Prophet (saw), "and they are not ones to believe" means they deny Allah and the Last Day in their hearts, although they affirm it on their tongues.

Your claim is: majority of the people that forsook their homes and left Makkah for Madinah, werent sincere and didnt really believe - the likes of Abu Bakr, Umar and Uthman. Why did they accept the Prophet (saw) in the first place? What gain did they see for themselves? It is reported Abu Bakr ra defended the Prophet (saw) against Utbah and was severely beaten, and when he regained conscienceness he refused to eat or drink until he was assured the Prophet (saw) was alright. Is this the way a hypocrite behaves? The shiite claim that the Muslims accepted him only for glory is illogical.

Perhaps when the Prophet (saw) gained power at Madinah, the Medinites would see some benefit in joining the Muslims, and may have done so for glory and not because they truly believed. But, Abu Bakr ra and Umar ra? Really??

The verse 9:100 refers to all the Emigrants.

When the verse says "believe as the people believe" who does "the people" refer to? Ali, Bilal, Miqdad, Salman, Abu Dharr and the Prophet (saw)? I don't buy it. "The people" refers to the close companions of the Prophet (saw), like the hundreds around him, not those you can count on your fingertips.

Edited December 24, 2006 by learner

[Link 4]

Then what do u say of the quotes in http://allaahuakbar.net/shiites/what_the_s...he_sahabahs.htm

Not that I agree with the contents of the site, but how do you respond to those quotes.

The believing companions with the Prophet were a majority as compared to the hypocrites. This is why the Qur'an commands the Prophet to tell the hypocrites "Believe as the people believe" (2:13), referring to the general people of Madinah.

It is true the majority of people did not believe and it was a minority that accepted the Prophet. But within the minority that did accept him, the majority are on the truth.

Well, if you would read the 4th du'a of Saheefa Sajadiya, their is a source that all shia scholars agree is authentic.

Go read yourself and you will know our views on who true companions are.

Learner, my view of what true faith is very different then yours. The Quran shows some people came first believing but then disbelieving.

I don't believe bani-Israel pretended to believe with Musa (as), but they did have weak faith, and they turned on their backs after being tried.

In the same way, I believe many people that had a low level of faith did turn on their backs.

I do believe the people who were fully sincere, firm, and kept to God's trust and covenant, were at the end a few. Most people wavered, and if they stayed straight in the path they first chose, they would have tasted from above them and below them and drank the holy cup of true faith.

ws

Edited December 24, 2006 by Link

[learner 0]

Well, if you would read the 4th du'a of Saheefa Sajadiya, their is a source that all shia scholars agree is authentic.

Go read yourself and you will know our views on who true companions are.

Learner, my view of what true faith is very different then yours. The Quran shows some people came first believing but then disbelieving.

I don't believe bani-Israel pretended to believe with Musa (as), but they did have weak faith, and they turned on their backs after being tried.

In the same way, I believe many people that had a low level of faith did turn on their backs.

I do believe the people who were fully sincere, firm, and kept to God's trust and covenant, were at the end a few. Most people wavered, and if they stayed straight in the path they first chose, they would have tasted from above them and below them and drank the holy cup of true faith.

ws

The companions of Musa (as) were different from the companions of the Prophet (saw). The Bani Israel saw worldly benefit in following Musa (as) right from the start. They knew he could perform "magic", and he had already brought harm on the Egyptians (the ten plagues of Egypt). Why would they reject the offer to escape Pharoah? In addition the Bani Israel were very fickle people. When they saw gods being worshipped they immediately said "we want gods like they have gods"; and when Samiri showed them the golden calf they worshipped it.

On the other hand, the Makkan Muslims lived cosy lives and had no worldly benefit in accepting the Prophet (saw). Either they were "fully sincere", in which case they accepted the Prophet (saw), or were a bit shaky or in full denial, in which case they did not accept the Prophet (saw). For example, why would Umar ra accept the Prophet (saw) if he was not sincere? He was a devout idol-worshipper. He was religious both pre and pro Islam. He had no reason to leave his gods for the One God, unless he really believed it.

This Ummah is not like the Ummah of Musa, although the Prophet (saw) did warn us that we will begin to follow them in every small act at the end of time. The Qur'an states "You are the best of nations" (3:110) - it isn't befitting the best of nations to have a majority that are deviant.

Ok, let's work on Abu Bakr ra. You believe he turned apostate after the Prophet (saw). Why? Is it because he denied Fatimah ra the inheritence she sought, or because he "usurped" the power that was "supposed" to have gone to Ali ra? You say "most people wavered". What is your proof for this? The fact that they gave allegiance to Abu Bakr ra and Umar ra?

Edited December 24, 2006 by learner

[akeelabbas 1]

But no one can bet that all the muhaajirin were praised by Allah...IT DOES NOT FIT IN MY LOGIC THAT EVEN THE MUNAAFIQEEN AMONG THEM ARE BLESSED...PERHAPS YOU DID NOT READ MY POST #31 ABOVE...LEARNER

REPLY TO THAT 1ST

ALLAHHAFIZ

Edited December 25, 2006 by akeelabbas

[Seeking-goodness 0]

The way sunnis interpet it is awaloon means those who were first to convert and all those are subiqoon (those who raced ahead). As a result all the early converts, God is pleased with them. But it doesn't neccessarily need to be seen that way.

ws

Brother Link, even if you feel as you stated above that it does not necessarily need to be seen that way (the Sunni understanding above), you are recognizing that it could be seen that way.

I am not an Arab, but I did study Arabic for 5 semesters many years ago, and I am sure that awaloon means those who were the first to convert.

And there is at least one verse in the Qur'an that is referring to a derivative of sabiqoon where Allah (swt) is telling us all to race for the good deeds. I forgot the verse number; please can someone find it?

Anyhow it is very interesting that Allah, subhana wa ta 'ala, decided to choose 2 words to describe these people and both of them deal either almost exclusively with time (awaloon) and the other one (sabiqoon) has been used for the time sense in at least one other verse.

Because you acknowledge that this verse could be in reality the Sunni way (Personally, I am certain the Sunni interpretation of the verse is much, much more likely to be true), why risk sinning and thus earning the wrath of Allah (swt) and thus have a lower position for eternity in paradise and/or risk suffering greatly for at least sometime in the grave or in the fire.

I request Brother Link and all to please do not be offended by what I just said. I am only out of brotherly love reminding myself and all my dear Sunni and Shia brothers/sisters to be extremely careful of being judgemental about the final state of others, especially those Allah (swt) (at least may) have praised and those for whom He (at least may) have explicitly stated that He has prepared paradise for them as the verse indicates.

I am not saying that all the actions of the close Sahaba were correct. I agree that Imam 'Ali should have been the one who immediatly suceeded the Prophet. However, many of the companions did what they did because they deemed it best for the preservation of Islam.

Yes, they made a serious mistake by allowing their personal opinions to enter more than it should have and they should have placed full trust int he Prophet and followed what the Prophet either implicitly or explicitly indicated (that Imam 'Ali :as: should succeed him). However, it was a difficult time and they did what they thought was best. As my dear Shia Brother Shunni mentioned in the recent thread on Al-Qaradawi, 'Umar may have acted with the intention of preventing an even worse event from taking place. For instance I think that after the Prophet :pbuh: whom the tribes across Arabia developed respect for passed away, Abu Sufyan or some other tribal leaders could have attempted to conspire together to make a coup under the cover of their new Muslim identity and their reduced but still powerful status to prevent their arch enemy Imam 'Ali :as: from taking power. As we know Imam 'Ali :as: killed a number of the leaders of the previously pagan and still powerful establishment.

Many (even if not all) did not become worldly with their acquired power. Abu Bakr :ra: and 'Umar :ra: lived far more simply than any of us do and they lived this way while they were ruling an empire.

So we should point out their mistakes to show that Imam 'Ali :as: should have been the ruler but we should not condemn them to hell. May Allah (swt) protect us from this enormity of sin.

As we know Allah (swt) says in surah Noor in the context of the false allegation thrown at Aisha,

Surah 24, verse 12

YUSUFALI: Why did not the believers - men and women - when ye heard of the affair,- put the best construction on it in their own minds and say, "This (charge) is an obvious lie"?

PICKTHAL: Why did not the believers, men and women, when ye heard it, think good of their own own folk, and say: It is a manifest untruth?

SHAKIR: Why did not the believing men and the believing women, when you heard it, think well of their own people, and say: This is an evident falsehood?

So we should not try to have a good opinion of the Muslims?... and especially of the companions who had forsaken their homes in Mecca and traveled hundreds of miles on foot and camel. These people were the ones who Allah (swt) blessed to help establish Islam Some of them left their families behind if their families did not convert. And this was unprecedented in the history of tribal people as they were. People never left their tribes to join another community a great distance away.

In this time period we live in, we may leave Chicago to go to Los Angeles for work but this was simply not done in the past. And again these people left their religion when Islam was weak, extremely weak. In fact there are probably a lot more Muslims in some city in Iceland than the total number of the Muhajiroon and the Ansar.

And you had mentioned something to the effect of why time of conversion and migration would matter. The time is extremely critical because it is a lot easier for people to have converted after the follwoers of Islam became strong and established and perhaps some people wanted to join in it because they saw it to their advantage to do so like perhaps after the conquest of Mecca.

There is at least one other verse if not a number of verses that refers to this. One verse says something like the people who converted before the conquest of Mecca and those who converted after are not the same. I do not remember the verse number, so please correct me if I am paraphrasing it incorrectly.

Salam

[Husayn 9]

أُوْلَئِكَ يُسَارِعُونَ فِي الْخَيْرَاتِ وَهُمْ لَهَا سَابِقُونَ {61}

[Pickthal 23:61] These race for the good things, and they shall win them in the race.

وَالسَّابِقُونَ السَّابِقُونَ {10}

[Pickthal 56:10] And the foremost in the race, the foremost in the race:

[Jondab_Azdi 41]

Brother Link, even if you feel as you stated above that it does not necessarily need to be seen that way (the Sunni understanding above), you are recognizing that it could be seen that way.

I am not an Arab, but I did study Arabic for 5 semesters many years ago, and I am sure that awaloon means those who were the first to convert.

And there is at least one verse in the Qur'an that is referring to a derivative of sabiqoon where Allah (swt) is telling us all to race for the good deeds. I forgot the verse number; please can someone find it?

Anyhow it is very interesting that Allah, subhana wa ta 'ala, decided to choose 2 words to describe these people and both of them deal either almost exclusively with time (awaloon) and the other one (sabiqoon) has been used for the time sense in at least one other verse.

Because you acknowledge that this verse could be in reality the Sunni way (Personally, I am certain the Sunni interpretation of the verse is much, much more likely to be true), why risk sinning and thus earning the wrath of Allah (swt) and thus have a lower position for eternity in paradise and/or risk suffering greatly for at least sometime in the grave or in the fire.

I request Brother Link and all to please do not be offended by what I just said. I am only out of brotherly love reminding myself and all my dear Sunni and Shia brothers/sisters to be extremely careful of being judgemental about the final state of others, especially those Allah (swt) (at least may) have praised and those for whom He (at least may) have explicitly stated that He has prepared paradise for them as the verse indicates.

I am not saying that all the actions of the close Sahaba were correct. I agree that Imam 'Ali should have been the one who immediatly suceeded the Prophet. However, many of the companions did what they did because they deemed it best for the preservation of Islam.

Yes, they made a serious mistake by allowing their personal opinions to enter more than it should have and they should have placed full trust int he Prophet and followed what the Prophet either implicitly or explicitly indicated (that Imam 'Ali :as: should succeed him). However, it was a difficult time and they did what they thought was best. As my dear Shia Brother Shunni mentioned in the recent thread on Al-Qaradawi, 'Umar may have acted with the intention of preventing an even worse event from taking place. For instance I think that after the Prophet :pbuh: whom the tribes across Arabia developed respect for passed away, Abu Sufyan or some other tribal leaders could have attempted to conspire together to make a coup under the cover of their new Muslim identity and their reduced but still powerful status to prevent their arch enemy Imam 'Ali :as: from taking power. As we know Imam 'Ali :as: killed a number of the leaders of the previously pagan and still powerful establishment.

Many (even if not all) did not become worldly with their acquired power. Abu Bakr :ra: and 'Umar :ra: lived far more simply than any of us do and they lived this way while they were ruling an empire.

So we should point out their mistakes to show that Imam 'Ali :as: should have been the ruler but we should not condemn them to hell. May Allah (swt) protect us from this enormity of sin.

As we know Allah (swt) says in surah Noor in the context of the false allegation thrown at Aisha,

Surah 24, verse 12

YUSUFALI: Why did not the believers - men and women - when ye heard of the affair,- put the best construction on it in their own minds and say, "This (charge) is an obvious lie"?

PICKTHAL: Why did not the believers, men and women, when ye heard it, think good of their own own folk, and say: It is a manifest untruth?

SHAKIR: Why did not the believing men and the believing women, when you heard it, think well of their own people, and say: This is an evident falsehood?

So we should not try to have a good opinion of the Muslims?... and especially of the companions who had forsaken their homes in Mecca and traveled hundreds of miles on foot and camel. These people were the ones who Allah (swt) blessed to help establish Islam Some of them left their families behind if their families did not convert. And this was unprecedented in the history of tribal people as they were. People never left their tribes to join another community a great distance away.

In this time period we live in, we may leave Chicago to go to Los Angeles for work but this was simply not done in the past. And again these people left their religion when Islam was weak, extremely weak. In fact there are probably a lot more Muslims in some city in Iceland than the total number of the Muhajiroon and the Ansar.

And you had mentioned something to the effect of why time of conversion and migration would matter. The time is extremely critical because it is a lot easier for people to have converted after the follwoers of Islam became strong and established and perhaps some people wanted to join in it because they saw it to their advantage to do so like perhaps after the conquest of Mecca.

There is at least one other verse if not a number of verses that refers to this. One verse says something like the people who converted before the conquest of Mecca and those who converted after are not the same. I do not remember the verse number, so please correct me if I am paraphrasing it incorrectly.

Salam

very good post bro.

[Zafaryab 0]

Shias will come and twist the Quran in such a way, that I'd call it blashmey. The Arabic language has a 100+ words to call a camel a camel, the Quran calls camels in diffrent ways. Just like Allah might use Imam for guide in one certain verse. Yet you people disgustingly will try to manipulate the meaning.

And you think only YOU have the right to interpret the Quran??... give it a rest bro.. we are all trying to seek the truth here :dry:

There is no doubt that Allah is pleased with the first Muslims - if you do deny, you are denying the Quran!

“And (as for) the foremost, the first of the Muhâjirîn and the Ansâr, and those who followed them in goodness, Allah is well pleased with them and they are well pleased with Him, and He has prepared for them gardens beneath which rivers flow, to abide in them for ever; that is the mighty achievement.” [sûrah al-Tawbah: 100]How can you deny? Allah has prepared for them gardens! This is in the Quran. Abu Bakr(ra), Umar(ra), Uthman(ra), Ali(ra), Aisha(ra), and all of those early onoes.

It doesn't matter if they did something wrong, we aren't judges

039.011

YUSUFALI: Say: "Verily, I am commanded to serve Allah with sincere devotion;

PICKTHAL: Say (O Muhammad): Lo! I am commanded to worship Allah, making religion pure for Him (only).

SHAKIR: Say: I am commanded that I should serve Allah, being sincere to Him in obedience.

039.012

YUSUFALI: "And I am commanded to be the first of those who bow to Allah in Islam."

PICKTHAL: And I am commanded to be the first of those who are muslims (surrender unto Him).

SHAKIR: And I am commanded that I shall be the first of those who submit.

Like the verses say.. the first muslim was the Prophet(saww).. and surely we are to judge someone if he/she commits a sin.. the Prophet(saww) himself established the fact that he does not sin before he announced the message of islam :)

As Ali(ra) was one of the most knowlegable, he would know not to fight Abu Bakar(ra), Uma(ra), and Uthman(ra). He never did. He obeyed them to the best of his abilities.

But those that came later, there is no guranity, such as Muwiaya(ra), that's why you saw him fight Muwiaya(ra).

He didn't fight because he had no army to fight with.. and later he was a leader of a strong nation.. he had to fight to keep peace in the country.

[Yousif 8]

(salam)

ive tried answering on this topic before but for some reason it wouldnt let me ,

But some of the desert Arabs believe in Allah and the Last Day, and look on their payments as pious gifts bringing them nearer to Allah and obtaining the prayers of the Messenger. Aye, indeed they bring them nearer (to Him): soon will Allah admit them to His Mercy: for Allah is Oft-forgiving, Most Merciful.

100 The vanguard (of Islam)- the first of those who forsook (their homes) and of those who gave them aid, and (also) those who follow them in (all) good deeds,- well- pleased is Allah with them, as are they with Him: for them hath He prepared gardens under which rivers flow, to dwell therein for ever: that is the supreme felicity.

101 Certain of the desert Arabs round about you are hypocrites, as well as (desert Arabs) among the Medina folk: they are obstinate in hypocrisy: thou knowest them not: We know them: twice shall We punish them: and in addition shall they be sent to a grievous penalty.

102 Others (there are who) have acknowledged their wrong-doings: they have mixed an act that was good with another that was evil. Perhaps Allah will turn unto them (in Mercy): for Allah is Oft-Forgiving, Most Merciful.

firstly in arabic the verse following al sabeqoon al awaloon begins with a Waw which means it continues about the same issue and it says

وَمِمَّنْ حَوْلَكُم مِّنَ الأَعْرَابِ مُنَافِقُونَ وَمِنْ أَهْلِ الْمَدِينَةِ مَرَدُواْ عَلَى النِّفَاقِ لاَ تَعْلَمُهُمْ نَحْنُ نَعْلَمُهُمْ سَنُعَذِّبُهُم مَّرَّتَيْنِ ثُمَّ يُرَدُّونَ إِلَى عَذَابٍ عَظِيمٍ

so , it does not mean all of the people around him as there are conditions

we are not only to look at one part of the quran and ignore the other , there is the other verse saying al sabeqoon al sabeqoon

وَالسَّابِقُونَ السَّابِقُونَ

11 أُوْلَئِكَ الْمُقَرَّبُونَ

12 فِي جَنَّاتِ النَّعِيمِ

13 ثُلَّةٌ مِّنَ الْأَوَّلِينَ

14 وَقَلِيلٌ مِّنَ الْآخِرِينَ

it says the foremost the foremost those are the muqarabeen , in heaven , abit from the awaleen and abit from the rest ...

[Husayn 9]

:salam:

13 ثُلَّةٌ مِّنَ الْأَوَّلِينَ actually means alot or many of those of the first.

[Yousif 8]

(salam)

no it doesnt ^ , thulatun , means a few , and theres an actual range less than 8 or 10 not sure ...

[learner 0]

(salam)

no it doesnt ^ , thulatun , means a few , and theres an actual range less than 8 or 10 not sure ...

that's weird. Both sunni and shiah tafsirs say thullah means a large group or multitude. The dictionary equates the word to jama'ah (group).

Edited December 25, 2006 by learner

[Zafaryab 0]

that's weird. Both sunni and shiah tafsirs say thullah means a large group or multitude. The dictionary equates the word to jama'ah (group).

Can't it be plural as in addressing someone with respect?

[Yousif 8]

(salam)

it doesnt really matter how you want to twist it , the bottom line is that not all the awaloon are included , thus there is no proof to support your point about the first 3 just mere speculation...