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I'm pretty sure the Wiccan religion is based on polytheism and I'm pretty sure that I read that Allah (swt) is the one that actually makes the spells work. My question is why does he? Is it just another test? Am I even allowed to question why he allows certain things to happen?

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(salam)

not really sure the answer to your question but i practiced wiccan a bit before becoming muslim...the people who i knew who were and are still now practicing wiccan ..didnt necessarily believe in more than one god just that god was apart of every living thing..it was more of a naturalistic type of religion...and the women there didnt cast "spells' as u put it..they did make concoctions from herbs and natural things that they claimed was good for u to eat or drink to keep u healthy or cure any ailment u had...anyways that is my experience with wiccan it isnt as black magicy as most people think or the people i was with werent..of course that was a long time ago so things may have changed now..

UmAli

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(salam)

like i said i wasnt a witch well maybe if u spelled it with a B and not a w then u might get it right :P

no i wasnt born muslim....i was raised southern missionary baptist ..when i was about 13 i started looking into other religions...from 13-15 i did th whole wiccan thing when i was 15 i started going thru catholicism to become catholic and at age 16 i converted to shia...and have been shia alhamdulilah ever since...

UmAli

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(bismillah)

(salam)

i thought this would be relevent to the thread seeing that in Pakistan Charail or Witches are a known and talked about thing.

Daughter 'possessed by demons'

By Adnan Adil

BBC Urdu service, Lahore

Pakistani police have arrested a man accused of murdering his 22-year-old daughter because he said she was possessed by demons.

The incident took place on Thursday in the remote village of Dus Ale in Harappa district in Punjab province.

Police say the father, Jamal Arain, confessed to killing his daughter with a butcher's knife.

They say he also confessed to putting the body on a pyre, with the help of his sons, and setting it on fire.

'Charred to bone'

The men were arrested as news of the incident filtered out of the remote area.

Local police also recovered the body, '"which was charred to the bone" according to Falak Sher, the police official in charge.

Police say Mr Arain told them a "churail' (female demon) had possessed his daughter a few days ago and threatened to kill him and his sons.

The father said that on Thursday the churail attacked his daughter and he killed her before the demon could take full control of her body.

According to police, the father said his daughter's possession had stemmed from the time of her recent engagement.

He added that soon after her engagement she set her dowry on fire.

Every year hundreds of women are killed in Pakistan in disputes over their right to marry of their own will.

The culprits are usually family members and the motives stated for the murder are either outlandish or honour based.

If the culprits are family members, they often escape punishment as under Pakistan's Islamic laws, the victim's family has the right to forgive the culprits.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/south_asia/6162055.stm

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(bismillah)

(salam)

i thought this would be relevent to the thread seeing that in Pakistan Charail or Witches are a known and talked about thing.

Daughter 'possessed by demons'

By Adnan Adil

BBC Urdu service, Lahore

Pakistani police have arrested a man accused of murdering his 22-year-old daughter because he said she was possessed by demons.

The incident took place on Thursday in the remote village of Dus Ale in Harappa district in Punjab province.

Police say the father, Jamal Arain, confessed to killing his daughter with a butcher's knife.

They say he also confessed to putting the body on a pyre, with the help of his sons, and setting it on fire.

'Charred to bone'

The men were arrested as news of the incident filtered out of the remote area.

Local police also recovered the body, '"which was charred to the bone" according to Falak Sher, the police official in charge.

Police say Mr Arain told them a "churail' (female demon) had possessed his daughter a few days ago and threatened to kill him and his sons.

The father said that on Thursday the churail attacked his daughter and he killed her before the demon could take full control of her body.

According to police, the father said his daughter's possession had stemmed from the time of her recent engagement.

He added that soon after her engagement she set her dowry on fire.

Every year hundreds of women are killed in Pakistan in disputes over their right to marry of their own will.

The culprits are usually family members and the motives stated for the murder are either outlandish or honour based.

If the culprits are family members, they often escape punishment as under Pakistan's Islamic laws, the victim's family has the right to forgive the culprits.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/south_asia/6162055.stm

not that i am defending the idea of wicca as a religion but i think u guys have a big misunderstanding of what the true followers practice...it isnt about demons or witches or warlocks or anything like that...it is about communicating with the earth and becoming one with nature for lack of a better way to explain it...all this black magic witchy possession stuff is totally something else...like i said i was in it for two years ..i grant u that was during its emergence in the states but not once did i ever witness or was asked or forced to do anything like what u guys are suggesting...

UmAli

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not that i am defending the idea of wicca as a religion but i think u guys have a big misunderstanding of what the true followers practice...it isnt about demons or witches or warlocks or anything like that...it is about communicating with the earth and becoming one with nature for lack of a better way to explain it...all this black magic witchy possession stuff is totally something else...like i said i was in it for two years ..i grant u that was during its emergence in the states but not once did i ever witness or was asked or forced to do anything like what u guys are suggesting...

UmAli

(bismillah) (salam)

Well i actually originate from pakistan and that is what we associate with witchcraft and charail as its called, so sorry if i offended or confused anyone.

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From Greater Sins (Shaheed Ayatollah Dastghaib Shirazi) (Sorry for the long post, but you will find it interesting enough to read all of it):

The thirty-first sin that is clearly stated to be a Greater Sin is sorcery. A tradition from the Holy Prophet (s.a.w.s.) has been recorded in Wasaelush Shia in which the Prophet (s.a.w.s.) has mentioned that Magic is a Greater Sin. The tradition of Abdul Azeem (r.a.) has also mentioned from Imam Jawad (a.s.) who has related through his fore-fathers from Imam Ja'far as-Sadiq (a.s.) that he said to the effect, "Sorcery is a Greater Sin because the Almighty Allah says in the Holy Quran:

"And they followed what the shaitans chanted of sorcery in the reign of Sulaiman, and Sulaiman was not an unbeliever, but the shaitans disbelieved, they taught men sorcery and that was sent down to the two angels at Babel, Harut and Marut, Yet these two taught no man until they had said, 'Surely we are only a trial, therefore do not be a disbeliever.' Even then men learned from these two, magic by which they might cause a separation between a man and his wife; and they cannot hurt with it anyone except with Allah's permission, and they learnt what harmed them and did not profit them, and certainly they know that he who brought it should have no share of good in the hereafter and evil was the price for which they sold their souls; had they but known this."

(Surah Baqarah 2:102)

According to Tafseer al-Mizan this ayat shows that sorcery was prevalent among the Jews for a long time; and they used to ascribe it to Hazrat Sulaiman (a.s.). They believed that Hazrat Sulaiman (a.s.) had mastered the techniques of controlling the angels, jinns and wild animals through magic, and some of these alleged methods had reached them. They also implicated the two angels Harut and Marut for other magical rites. Therefore, the Holy Quran has denounced

516

their belief regarding Hazrat Sulaiman (a.s.) because sorcery is the method of misusing the power of human spirit in order to perform extraordinary acts. It is against the Divine law because it negates the supremacy of Allah. Since Hazrat Sulaiman (a.s.) was a Prophet and undoubtedly infallible, he cannot be blamed for such a violation of Divine Command. Therefore to ascribe sorcery to Hazrat Sulaiman (a.s.) was absolutely wrong. As the Almighty says,

"...and Sulaiman was not an unbeliever, but the shaitans disbelieved, they taught men sorcery..."

(Surah Baqarah 2:102)

Regarding Harut and Marut the Holy Quran says:

"...and that was sent down to the angels at Babel, Harut and Marut, yet these two taught no man until they had said, "Surely we are only a trial, therefore do not be a disbeliever." Even then men learnt from these two, magic by which they might cause a separation between a man and his wife; and they cannot hurt with it anyone except with Allah's permission, and they learnt what harmed them and did not profit them..."

The Holy Prophet (s.a.w.s.) says,

"Three kinds of people will not enter Paradise, habitual alcoholics, habitual sorcerers and those who severe relationships."

(Wasaelush Shia)

Amirul Momineen Ali (a.s.) says,

"The magician will enter hell like the disbeliever."

(Wasaelush Shia)

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Imam (a.s.) also says,

"If one learns magic, whether a little bit or more, he has become an infidel. And his end result is that he does not receive Divine Mercy. His punishment is that he be killed except if he repents."

(Wasaelush Shia)

Amirul Momineen Ali (a.s.) says that a woman came to the Holy Prophet (s.a.w.s.) and said,

"My husband is very severe and misbehaves with me, so I have prepared something for him that he may become kind to me." (i.e. I have prepared a magical potion to change his attitude).

The Holy Prophet (s.a.w.s.) said,

"Curse be upon you! You have darkened the realms of the seas and the lands, the angels of the earth and the heavens curse you."

After going from there the woman began to fast during the days and pray during the night and she trimmed her hair and started wearing a leather garment. When the Holy Prophet (s.a.w.s.) learnt of this he remarked that her fasting and prayers would not be accepted.

(Kitab Faqih)

Muhaddith Faid mentions this hadith and comment that these actions will not save her from death penalty. Sorcery is such a severe crime that her repentance and worship will not bring her near Allah. She has done an injustice to her husband and unless he forgives her, she cannot be forgiven.

The Holy Prophet (s.a.w.s.) says:

"If a person goes to a magician, a diviner or a liar and testifies to the truth of whatever he says, he becomes an infidel according to all the books revealed by Allah."

(Safinatul Behaar)

Sorcery is punishable by death

A Muslim who indulges in magic and does not repent is punished by death. An infidel guilty of sorcery must not be killed. He should be punished according to the decree of a just jurist (Qazi) and his penalty is at the discretion of the Qazi.

519

According to a tradition of Imam as-Sadiq (a.s.):

"The sorcerer must be given a single blow of the sword on his head."

(Al Kafi)

"If two just witnesses testify, it is permissible to kill him."

(Tahzeeb)

Imam (a.s.) also said, that the Holy Prophet (s.a.w.s.) ordered,

"The Muslim sorcerer must be killed and the infidel magician must not be killed."

Someone asked, "O Messenger of Allah, why shouldn't the disbelieving sorcerer be killed too?"

The Messenger of Allah (s.a.w.s.) replied,

"Because disbelief is a more serious sin than magic; and sorcery and polytheism are the same."

It means that when a zimmi infidel is not sentenced to death for his infidelity he cannot be killed for the sin of practising magic because infidelity is greater than sorcery. Whereas the Muslim magician is killed because he has committed polytheism.

It is related that Isa bin Saqafi came to Imam Ja'far as-Sadiq (a.s.) and said, "May my life be sacrificed for you, I am a magician and magic is my occupation. With the earnings of magic I have even

536

performed the Hajj and now the Almighty has honoured me by your meeting but now I am regretful of my deeds; is there any way I can achieve salvation? Imam (a.s.) said, "Untie and do not tie." The apparent meaning of Imam's remark is that he can use his powers to counteract the magical spells of others magicians but he must not himself initiate sorcery. Some jurists are of the opinion that magic can be used only under special circumstances when there is no other alternative. Initially invocations and amulets must be tried to nullify magical spells.

http://www.maaref-foundation.com/english/l...ter_sins/32.htm

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Sorcery is only the 31st? I thought witchcraft (sorcery), disregard for kinship, and alcohol consumption were a barrier from Heaven. The most depressing country in the world is Pakistan. They should just call it Hellistan or something.

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Sorcery also called evil witchcraft or black magic is the evil acts of wicked humans and wicked jinns, but the individuals responsible for its success are the shaytans (who are the evil jinns that work for the biggest Shaytan himself) of Iblis (ln) - the shaytan kabir.

Therefore to make sorcery work one needs contact from a shaytan. Thus a sorceror or sorceress is clearly not just a kaafir and a traitor of mankind but against Allah thus is doomed for jahannam as he/she has joined with Iblis (the biggest shaytan) and his evil jinn (shaytans).

Edited by Mahdiyah

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Wow! I didn't expect a former witch to reply! That's so cool! How'd you find Islam? Were you born into it?

LOL :lol:

(salam)

like i said i wasnt a witch well maybe if u spelled it with a B and not a w then u might get it right :P

no i wasnt born muslim....i was raised southern missionary baptist ..when i was about 13 i started looking into other religions...from 13-15 i did th whole wiccan thing when i was 15 i started going thru catholicism to become catholic and at age 16 i converted to shia...and have been shia alhamdulilah ever since...

UmAli

actually a friend of my friend practices wiccan and yeah it's just like UmAli said, she's not a witch. I'm actually interested in how you became muslim. I have a friend who's a convert and these stories fascinate me. I really admire converts because they choose Islam and shi'sm and I think you guys have wayyyy more reward from Allah(swt) than us who were borne muslim and shi'a. ( I went off-topic :blush: but I really get excited about converts and their stories, lucky you mashallah.)

Sorcery is only the 31st? I thought witchcraft (sorcery), disregard for kinship, and alcohol consumption were a barrier from Heaven. The most depressing country in the world is Pakistan. They should just call it Hellistan or something.

LOL Hellistan?! Why is that? all of the above are common in Pakistan?

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LOL Hellistan?! Why is that? all of the above are common in Pakistan?

No...but the country's full of social corruption. Girls wanting to die because they're forced into horrible marriages, terrorist hideouts, and that homosexual pedophile who raped a huge amount of poor children and put their corpses in a vat of acid. I freaking hate that country.

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^ Every country in the world has an equal potential to become just as corrupted. Nations don't really exist; we draw the boundaries in our minds and fool ourselves into thinking that the world really is split up, and once people start believing this myth, they abuse each other and try to get power for their own dreamt up 'countries'. Pakistan used to be part of India, and Britain ruled the big nation and caused everyone a load of heartache. When Britain decided it wasn't worth it anymore and the uprisings became too stressful, it decided it would leave an open wound on the heart of the newly-petitioned Pakistan and India and make it so that neither country would be able to live up to its full potential or ever become successful. To do this, it left the distribution of the Kashmir area in question so both countries would spend their money and resources for all future time fighting over that land, while neglecting the remaining interiors and peoples of their countries.

And well, Britain has succeeded thus far. Since the people in Pakistan didn't have enough money or resources to create a successful and civilized society what with the preoccupation with Kashmir, naturally the society experienced severe potholes that it has fallen deeper and deeper into as time goes on. And society is pretty much crazy now; some well-off Pakistanis experience the external cultures of the West and become corrupted wannabes in that regard, while others on the opposite end of the scale have reverted to primitive thinking due to lack of education that brings them to oppress the rights of women and engage in horrible crimes. None of said behaviors have anything to do with Islam, which is the forgotten premise of Pakistan's creation.

It has gone from the Land of the Pure to the Land that is in dire need of reformation.

All that being said, some of the countries that glisten on the surface are actually similarly corrupted, and in my opinion, when the corruption is secretive and not out in the open where you can recognize it, it's twice as scary.

Consider some of the CIA's missions over in the Middle East in recent years and the going-ons of Guantanamo. Consider the story of Binyam Muhammad, and the inhumane tortures he experienced at the hands of some of America's top agents' hirees. Getting beaten for hours on end, heroin injections, repetitive scalpel cuts to his privates, deafening psychological torture, flesh-burning...

http://www.guardian.co.uk/terrorism/story/...1540552,00.html

In Pakistan, the social crimes are generally committed by the uneducated and alienated lower class, and they're open for all the world to see. In the US, you have the people at the very top, the people that could potentially control, ruin, or rob the lives of anyone of their choosing, doing horrible things to completely innocent people that get slipped under the doormat.

http://hrw.org/english/docs/2005/12/19/afghan12319.htm

If you're willing to point the blaming finger at Pakistan, ponder a little more at the safety you might think you have here in America.

You can go to www.aclu.tv and get free DVDs that talk about some of the unspoken stories.

I don't think it's safe to consider any country innocent.

Edited by LightTheWay786

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No...but the country's full of social corruption. Girls wanting to die because they're forced into horrible marriages, terrorist hideouts, and that homosexual pedophile who raped a huge amount of poor children and put their corpses in a vat of acid. I freaking hate that country.

Salam,

Now that's scary :wacko: , I can see why you called it Hellestan. May Allah (swt) end the corruption in Pakistan and all over the world by our savior Imam Mahdi (aj). :cry:

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