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In the Name of God بسم الله

Shias Commit Shirk

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abu-usaama

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13 hours ago, Guest Guest said:

Can you answer the comment above?

Yes sure!! 

We can call for help (for instance, intercession) to everyone who is proved to be the misdaq of:

1)  من شهد بالحق 

2) من اتخذ عند الرحمن عهدا

A very short way to answer.

13 hours ago, Guest Guest said:

muhammad came for the main purpose to spread the one ness of Allah. 
never taught to need a middle man. 

Lets see a famous hadith, hadith e thaqalayn:

إنّي تاركٌ فيكم الثقلين ما إن تَمَسَّكتم بهما لن تضلّوا بعدي: كتابَ اللَّه وعترتي أهلَ بيتي، لن يفترقا حتى يردا عليّ الحوضَ

Then we have hadith e Safinah:

مثل أهل بيتي فيكم كمثل سفينة نوح في قوم نوح من ركبها نجا، ومن تخلف عنها هلك، ومثل باب حطة في بني إسرائيل)

And what do you know what is Bab e Hattah & Safinah of Noah (عليه السلام)

The irony is that both of the above two ahadith are narrated by Sunni & Shia sources. 

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2 hours ago, Cool said:

من اتخذ عند الرحمن عهدا

Answered this on the other post. 
 

all Muslims are included in that verse. 
 

you are viewing it wrong. 

2 hours ago, Cool said:

ets see a famous hadith, hadith e thaqalayn:

إنّي تاركٌ فيكم الثقلين ما إن تَمَسَّكتم بهما لن تضلّوا بعدي: كتابَ اللَّه وعترتي أهلَ بيتي، لن يفترقا حتى يردا عليّ الحوضَ

Then we have hadith e Safinah:

مثل أهل بيتي فيكم كمثل سفينة نوح في قوم نوح من ركبها نجا، ومن تخلف عنها هلك، ومثل باب حطة في بني إسرائيل)

And what do you know what is Bab e Hattah & Safinah of Noah (عليه السلام)

The irony is that both of the above two ahadith are narrated by Sunni & Shia sources. 

Can you send the translations I’m not that good. 
 

but anyway hadith don’t override the Quran. 

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On 11/27/2006 at 10:05 AM, abu-usaama said:

Allah sent the Prophet (peace and blessings of Allah be upon him) to a group of people who used to worship Him, and perform Hajj, and give charity, and remember Allah. However, they would also make certain created objects intermediaries between them and Allah.

They would say as an excuse for this act, " We only desire to come closer to Allah through them, and we wish that they intercede for us with Him."

Allah therefore sent Prophet Muhammad (peace and blessings of Allah be upon him), to revive their old religion - the religion of their father Ibrahim - and to inform them that this act of trying to come closer to Allah, and this belief (that they needed an intermediary to approach Allah) was a right that is due only to Allah. It is not proper to direct any of these acts of worship to any other being, whether it be a noble angel, or a sent Prophet, much less to anyone of lesser status than them.

Allah (سُبْحَانَهُ وَ تَعَالَى) has said in Quran:

يَا أَيُّهَا الَّذِينَ آمَنُوا اتَّقُوا اللَّهَ وَابْتَغُوا إِلَيْهِ الْوَسِيلَةَ وَجَاهِدُوا فِي سَبِيلِهِ لَعَلَّكُمْ تُفْلِحُونَ {35}

[Shakir 5:35] O you who believe! be careful of (your duty to) Allah and seek means of nearness to Him and strive hard in His way that you may be successful.
[Pickthal 5:35] O ye who believe! Be mindful of your duty to Allah, and seek the way of approach unto Him, and strive in His way in order that ye may succeed.

The word "Wasilah" means intermediary, a mean to approach Allah (سُبْحَانَهُ وَ تَعَالَى).
Examples:
a) The rope (Hablillah) which Allah (سُبْحَانَهُ وَ تَعَالَى) has provided for us and have commanded us to cling to it.
b) The actions/deeds like salah/sowm etc. which we perform to seek closeness to Allah (سُبْحَانَهُ وَ تَعَالَى). 

There is no difference of opinion among Muslims till these points. The difference arise on the question whether we can make some blessed personalities (either living or dead) as wasilah to get closer to Allah (سُبْحَانَهُ وَ تَعَالَى)?

Some people start presenting the verses of Quran against any such practices. We will look at those verses too:

قُلِ ادْعُوا الَّذِينَ زَعَمْتُمْ مِنْ دُونِهِ فَلَا يَمْلِكُونَ كَشْفَ الضُّرِّ عَنْكُمْ وَلَا تَحْوِيلًا {56}

[Shakir 17:56] Say: Call on those whom you assert besides Him, so they shall not control the removal of distress from you nor (its) transference.
[Pickthal 17:56] Say: Cry unto those (saints and angels) whom ye assume (to be gods) beside Him, yet they have no power to rid you of misfortune nor to change.

أُولَٰئِكَ الَّذِينَ يَدْعُونَ يَبْتَغُونَ إِلَىٰ رَبِّهِمُ الْوَسِيلَةَ أَيُّهُمْ أَقْرَبُ وَيَرْجُونَ رَحْمَتَهُ وَيَخَافُونَ عَذَابَهُ ۚ إِنَّ عَذَابَ رَبِّكَ كَانَ مَحْذُورًا {57}

[Shakir 17:57] Those whom they call upon, themselves seek the means of access to their Lord-- whoever of them is nearest-- and they hope for His mercy and fear His chastisement; surely the chastisement of your Lord is a thing to be cautious of.
[Pickthal 17:57] Those unto whom they cry seek the way of approach to their Lord, which of them shall be the nearest; they hope for His mercy and they fear His doom. Lo! the doom of thy Lord is to be shunned.

From above two verses, we will find out the exact meaning of shirk. Shirk is like a one way traffic. If creation associate someone as partner of Allah (سُبْحَانَهُ وَ تَعَالَى) in worship or in attribute, that would come under the clause of shirk. If Allah (سُبْحَانَهُ وَ تَعَالَى) appoints someone or grant someone a designation, or invite us to join Him in any act, that wouldn't be considered as shirk. 

Examples: 
a) Allah (سُبْحَانَهُ وَ تَعَالَى) is True Mowla of all, yet He made Prophet (صلى الله عليه وآله وسلم) & some of His chosen servants as mowla of believers. 
b) Allah (سُبْحَانَهُ وَ تَعَالَى) keeps the right to be obeyed, yet He made obligatory on us the obedience of Prophet (صلى الله عليه وآله وسلم) & Ulil Amr. 
c) Allah (سُبْحَانَهُ وَ تَعَالَى) is "Mudabbir ul Amr", yet He has appointed Angels for managing the affairs. 
 

So the verse 17;56 uses the word "زَعَمْتُمْ" (to assume, to assert) indicates that a mere human conjecture is not sufficient for making or declaring someone as wasilah. Wasilah would only be that thing which is approved by Him and/or by His Apostle. So no one from believers could be our wasilah, until or unless we find a divine approval for him in any form. And the verse 17;57 further clarifies the matter by stating that those whom "they call", themselves seek the means to approach to their Lord". And this verse further strengthens the concept of wasilah. It is not in anyway, rejecting the concept of waseelah. 

So whom should we consider as wasilah? Who are those personalities whom Allah (سُبْحَانَهُ وَ تَعَالَى) has approved and they could be our means to access Him? 

The answer to these questions would be logical & scriptural based. Our wasilah to Allah (سُبْحَانَهُ وَ تَعَالَى) would only be the things which themselves are near Him. For instance, Hablillah (rope) whose one end is with Allah (سُبْحَانَهُ وَ تَعَالَى) and the Prophet (صلى الله عليه وآله وسلم) too who is achieved the station of "qaba qowsayne aw adna", then the ones whom Prophet (صلى الله عليه وآله وسلم) has introduced to us as means of our salvation & guidance like the personalities who are like Ark of Noah, the ones who are from the two weighty things which would never lead us astray.  

I hope that these two examples would be sufficient. The Ark of Noah is a wasilah provided by Allah (سُبْحَانَهُ وَ تَعَالَى) for delivering the believers in the times of Prophet Noah (عليه السلام). And when Prophet (صلى الله عليه وآله وسلم) introducing someones as Ark of Noah, that means these blessed personalities are a provision for us from Allah (سُبْحَانَهُ وَ تَعَالَى) that would ensure our safety and guidance. When Prophet (صلى الله عليه وآله وسلم) introducing someones as two of the weighty things which would never lead us astray and these two would never get separate from each other and would meet him at the pond, that is another attestation that the two are the means provided for us by Allah (سُبْحَانَهُ وَ تَعَالَى) Himself. 

Now lets come to the question, whether we can make Prophet (صلى الله عليه وآله وسلم) or Imams (those whom we know as Ark of Noah & one of two from Thaqalayn) wasilah after their wafat? 

The objective in this question is that we cannot make those who are dead as wasilah. Lets see the role of these blessed personalities given to them by Allah (سُبْحَانَهُ وَ تَعَالَى) and mentioned in Quran:

وَكَذَٰلِكَ جَعَلْنَاكُمْ أُمَّةً وَسَطًا لِتَكُونُوا شُهَدَاءَ عَلَى النَّاسِ وَيَكُونَ الرَّسُولُ عَلَيْكُمْ شَهِيدًا ۗ 

2:143) And thus We have made you a medium (just) nation that you may be the bearers of witness to the people and (that) the Messenger may be a bearer of witness to you

Messenger of Allah (سُبْحَانَهُ وَ تَعَالَى), although not present in physical form with us in this world, but his life as well as his role is mentioned right there in the above verse. Prophet (صلى الله عليه وآله وسلم) is witnessing us according to this verse. I am leaving "Ummatan Wasatan" for a while, will discuss it when I will discuss the role of Imams. 

فَكَيْفَ إِذَا جِئْنَا مِن كُلِّ أمَّةٍ بِشَهِيدٍ وَجِئْنَا بِكَ عَلَى هَـؤُلاء شَهِيدًا
4:41)  How will it be, then, when We bring from every people a witness and bring you as a witness against these?

وَيَوْمَ نَبْعَثُ فِي كُلِّ أُمَّةٍ شَهِيدًا عَلَيْهِم مِّنْ أَنفُسِهِمْ وَجِئْنَا بِكَ شَهِيدًا عَلَى هَـؤُلاء
16;89) And on the day when We will raise up in every people a witness against them from among themselves, and bring you as a witness against these

 

وَجَاهِدُوا فِي اللَّهِ حَقَّ جِهَادِهِ هُوَ اجْتَبَاكُمْ وَمَا جَعَلَ عَلَيْكُمْ فِي الدِّينِ مِنْ حَرَجٍ مِّلَّةَ أَبِيكُمْ إِبْرَاهِيمَ هُوَ سَمَّاكُمُ الْمُسْلِمينَ مِن قَبْلُ وَفِي هَذَا لِيَكُونَ الرَّسُولُ شَهِيدًا عَلَيْكُمْ وَتَكُونُوا شُهَدَاء عَلَى النَّاسِ
22:78) And strive hard in (the way of) Allah, (such) a striving a is due to Him; He has chosen you and has not laid upon you an hardship in religion; the faith of your father Ibrahim; He named you Muslims before and in this, that the Messenger may be a bearer of witness to you, and you may be bearers of witness to the people;

All of the above verses are attesting the role of Prophet (صلى الله عليه وآله وسلم) as witness. And there will be two types of witnesses attributed to Prophet (صلى الله عليه وآله وسلم) in above verses. He would come as a witness against someone and he is a witness over some of the praised ones mentioned in verses 2:143 and 22:78, the Ummatan Wasatan and the ones whom Allah (سُبْحَانَهُ وَ تَعَالَى) Himself named Muslims. 

So how can Prophet (صلى الله عليه وآله وسلم) be witnessing us? He departed from this world more than 1400 years ago yet Allah (سُبْحَانَهُ وَ تَعَالَى) is mentioning him as witness over some of his chosen ones? Can a dead be a witness over people who are alive? No not at all. So how would we understand this role of Prophet (صلى الله عليه وآله وسلم)? The Quran comes forward and gives us the verses:

وَلاَ تَقُولُواْ لِمَنْ يُقْتَلُ فِي سَبيلِ اللّهِ أَمْوَاتٌ بَلْ أَحْيَاء وَلَكِن لاَّ تَشْعُرُونَ

2:154) And do not speak of those who are slain in Allah's way as dead; nay, (they are) alive, but you do not perceive.

وَلاَ تَحْسَبَنَّ الَّذِينَ قُتِلُواْ فِي سَبِيلِ اللّهِ أَمْوَاتًا بَلْ أَحْيَاء عِندَ رَبِّهِمْ يُرْزَقُونَ
3:169) And reckon not those who are killed in Allah's way as dead; nay, they are alive (and) are provided sustenance from their Lord;

Allah (سُبْحَانَهُ وَ تَعَالَى) has commanded us not to speak, and not even think that the ones slain in the way of Allah (سُبْحَانَهُ وَ تَعَالَى) as dead, He Himself confirmed us that they are alive and taking sustenance but we do not perceive their lives. So if Prophet (صلى الله عليه وآله وسلم) is alive, whether he can hear us? Whether he can see us? Yes he can, by the permission of Allah (سُبْحَانَهُ وَ تَعَالَى). The role of witness, given to him by Allah (سُبْحَانَهُ وَ تَعَالَى) demands that he should be aware of us what we speak & what we do. Otherwise, what would be the reason to introduce the Prophet (صلى الله عليه وآله وسلم) as witness? Allah (سُبْحَانَهُ وَ تَعَالَى) alone is sufficient as witness because He is the Knower of apparent & hidden, His knowledge has encompassed everything. Here again, Quran comes forward and guide us:

وَسَيَرَى اللّهُ عَمَلَكُمْ وَرَسُولُهُ
9:94) Allah and His messenger will see your conduct

وَقُلِ اعْمَلُوا فَسَيَرَى اللَّهُ عَمَلَكُمْ وَرَسُولُهُ وَالْمُؤْمِنُونَ ۖ وَسَتُرَدُّونَ إِلَىٰ عَالِمِ الْغَيْبِ وَالشَّهَادَةِ فَيُنَبِّئُكُمْ بِمَا كُنْتُمْ تَعْمَلُونَ
9:105) And say: Work; so Allah will see your work and (so will) His Messenger and the believers; and you shall be brought back to the Knower of the unseen and the seen, then He will inform you of what you did.

So Prophet (صلى الله عليه وآله وسلم) is alive and is a witness upon us according to the roles assigned to him by Allah (سُبْحَانَهُ وَ تَعَالَى). And we can use him as wasilah to approach Allah (سُبْحَانَهُ وَ تَعَالَى) as Allah (سُبْحَانَهُ وَ تَعَالَى) has commanded him to ask forgiveness for them, pray for the believers, takes from them the nafaqaat:

وَمَا أَرْسَلْنَا مِنْ رَسُولٍ إِلَّا لِيُطَاعَ بِإِذْنِ اللَّهِ ۚ وَلَوْ أَنَّهُمْ إِذْ ظَلَمُوا أَنْفُسَهُمْ جَاءُوكَ فَاسْتَغْفَرُوا اللَّهَ وَاسْتَغْفَرَ لَهُمُ الرَّسُولُ لَوَجَدُوا اللَّهَ تَوَّابًا رَحِيمًا
4:64) And We did not send any messenger but that he should be obeyed by Allah's permission; and had they, when they were unjust to themselves, come to you and asked forgiveness of Allah and the Messenger had (also) asked forgiveness for them, they would have found Allah Oft-returning (to mercy), Merciful.

خُذْ مِنْ أَمْوَالِهِمْ صَدَقَةً تُطَهِّرُهُمْ وَتُزَكِّيهِم بِهَا وَصَلِّ عَلَيْهِمْ إِنَّ صَلاَتَكَ سَكَنٌ لَّهُمْ وَاللّهُ سَمِيعٌ عَلِيمٌ
9:103)  Take alms out of their property, you would cleanse them and purify them thereby, and pray for them; surely your prayer is a relief to them; and Allah is Hearing, Knowing.

I am going to end this post as it becomes lengthy, will move the discussions ahead Insha Allah, in my next comment, stay tuned :) 

Wassalam!!
 

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On 12/6/2006 at 3:31 AM, mkafil said:
On 12/6/2006 at 3:31 AM, mkafil said:

Fact 1: suppose You ask your mother to pray for you? and after she offers her pray she supplicates to Allah for your success.

Attention: Ponder here:

is your mother alive?

yes she is?

could she hear you?

yes she could

can she pray to Allah"

yes she does and she recites surah al fatiha where theres is a verse

[1.5] You (alone) we worship; and You (alone)we rely for help.

im very simple minded

 

This explanation doesn't make any sense. You don't go to a doctor to ask him/her to pray for you, do you? You simply go to the clinic or hospital and ask them for their help, which according to you folks is shirk.

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On 11/27/2006 at 10:05 AM, abu-usaama said:

But, even though I testify all this, I realize that I am sinful, and these righteous people have a great status in front of Allah, so I ask Allah through them."

So, when he presents this argument to you, respond to him with what has gone before in this tract, and that is that the same people that the Prophet (peace and blessings of Allah be upon him) fought used to acknowledge all that you have mentioned, O negator of truth! And they openly admitted that their idols did not control anything. Rather, they desired from these objects their status in front of Allah, and their intercession to Allah on their behalf. And recite to him the verses that Allah has mentioned in His Book, and explain these verses to him.

Although I thought to write few words about the Imams in this post but have just changed my mind and now I am going to take the arguments mentioned in the OP and the reasoning provided by this person. 

First of all, there is a verse of Quran already quoted earlier:

وَمَا أَرْسَلْنَا مِنْ رَسُولٍ إِلَّا لِيُطَاعَ بِإِذْنِ اللَّهِ ۚ وَلَوْ أَنَّهُمْ إِذْ ظَلَمُوا أَنْفُسَهُمْ جَاءُوكَ فَاسْتَغْفَرُوا اللَّهَ وَاسْتَغْفَرَ لَهُمُ الرَّسُولُ لَوَجَدُوا اللَّهَ تَوَّابًا رَحِيمًا {64}

[Shakir 4:64] And We did not send any messenger but that he should be obeyed by Allah's permission; and had they, when they were unjust to themselves, come to you and asked forgiveness of Allah and the Messenger had (also) asked forgiveness for them, they would have found Allah Oft-returning (to mercy), Merciful.

It appears that if what this stupid person is saying, is correct, the na'udobillah, neither the Prophet (صلى الله عليه وآله وسلم) knew that his asking of forgiveness for companions is a shirk nor the companions knew that they don't really need to go to the Prophet (صلى الله عليه وآله وسلم) for asking forgiveness of Allah (سُبْحَانَهُ وَ تَعَالَى). 

Interestingly, every Prophet sent by Allah (سُبْحَانَهُ وَ تَعَالَى) has taught the touheed to his nation in a best manner. Lets take the example of Prophet Noah (عليه السلام) and Quran quoted him:

قَالَ يَا قَوْمِ إِنِّي لَكُمْ نَذِيرٌ مُبِينٌ 

أَنِ اعْبُدُوا اللَّهَ وَاتَّقُوهُ وَأَطِيعُونِ

71:2-3) He said: O my people! Surely I am a plain warner to you: That you should serve Allah and be careful of (your duty to) Him and obey me:

Accepting all these conditions would result in following:

يَغْفِرْ لَكُمْ مِنْ ذُنُوبِكُمْ وَيُؤَخِّرْكُمْ إِلَىٰ أَجَلٍ مُسَمًّى ۚ إِنَّ أَجَلَ اللَّهِ إِذَا جَاءَ لَا يُؤَخَّرُ ۖ لَوْ كُنْتُمْ تَعْلَمُونَ

71:4) He will forgive you some of your faults and grant you a delay to an appointed term; surely the term of Allah when it comes is not postponed; did you but know!

So one's obedience to a Prophet of Allah (سُبْحَانَهُ وَ تَعَالَى) itself is a waseelah for the forgiveness of some sins as per this verse. And that is not limited to life or death of Prophet. Like being Muslims, it is obligation on us to obey the Messenger of Allah, his every commands which reach to us through reliable sources irrespective of whether he is alive in this world or moved to hereafter. Our obedience to Prophet (صلى الله عليه وآله وسلم) is still a wasilah for us for getting closer to Allah (سُبْحَانَهُ وَ تَعَالَى) and for the forgiveness of our sins. 

So Allah (سُبْحَانَهُ وَ تَعَالَى) commanded the Prophet Noah (عليه السلام) to build an Ark. People were laughing at him when he was building the Ark. Every divine communication was only between Allah (سُبْحَانَهُ وَ تَعَالَى) & Prophet Noah (عليه السلام). None of the believer from his nation saw any angel bringing any divine command nor they heard from angel, the divine words revealed to him. They just obeyed him when he called them to get into the safinah. They just believed him when he gave them the news about the tufaan. And the passengers of that Ark remained safe from the divine punishment. 

Our Prophet (صلى الله عليه وآله وسلم) too introduced some personalities as "Safinah e Noah" and we are watching people are laughing, calling those who believed on the words of Prophet (صلى الله عليه وآله وسلم) as kafirs, mushrik. Not even understanding what was the Safinah of Noah (عليه السلام):

وَاصْنَعِ الْفُلْكَ بِأَعْيُنِنَا وَوَحْيِنَا وَلاَ تُخَاطِبْنِي فِي الَّذِينَ ظَلَمُواْ إِنَّهُم مُّغْرَقُونَ

11:37) And make the ark before Our eyes and (according to) Our revelation, and do not speak to Me in respect of those who are unjust; surely they shall be drowned.

Had the Prophet Muhammad (صلى الله عليه وآله وسلم) made what he called as "Ark of Noah" on his own? Without being in the sight of Allah (سُبْحَانَهُ وَ تَعَالَى) & without His revelation and without His direction? Anyone who thinks that could be anything but not Muslim at least.

إنما مثل أهل بيتي فيكم كمثل سفينة نوح (عليه السلام)، من دخلها نجا، ومن تخلف عنها غرق

These are the words of Prophet (صلى الله عليه وآله وسلم) as quoted by Sunni's and Shias both. 

And the irony is that every believer have to embark this Ark, if he truly want salvation. There is no exception, nothing other is added here. The only thing is the Safinah which assures our safety. Even the companions need to embark the Safinah. 

This Safinah, introduced by Prophet (صلى الله عليه وآله وسلم), is owned by Allah (سُبْحَانَهُ وَ تَعَالَى). He confirmed us with the قول الثابت that these blessed personalities infact are the wasilah by revealing for them the verse of purification. 

He (سُبْحَانَهُ وَ تَعَالَى) has mentioned these personalities in His book with different names and attributes. One only need to open up his eyes and softens his heart for accepting the truth. Now I have given one command of Prophet (صلى الله عليه وآله وسلم) (unanimously accepted by all sects), lets see who is going to accept this command, who is going to obey Prophet (صلى الله عليه وآله وسلم) & embarked in the Ark of Salvation.

Unfortunately, we have seen that the Ummah has torn apart this Ark of Salvation. They disobeyed or in less strict words, they ignored, what was prescribed for them by Prophet (صلى الله عليه وآله وسلم) to the effect that they have made the Ahlul Bayt (عليه السلام), the idols. Anyone who follow them or keeps for them love in his heart, is turned into an idol worshiper. 

What a shame!!! What a shame indeed!!

Neither you yourself obey the recommendations & commands of Prophet (صلى الله عليه وآله وسلم) when it comes to leadership & salvation, nor you want to allow it for others. For you there is no such thing as "Ark of Noah", for you there is no wasilah for you. Hence for you there is no salvation.

:) Time to move onto the 2nd argument, but after a long break. Stay tuned.

Wassalam!!

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2 hours ago, Cool said:

Although I thought to write few words about the Imams in this post but have just changed my mind and now I am going to take the arguments mentioned in the OP and the reasoning provided by this person. 

First of all, there is a verse of Quran already quoted earlier:

وَمَا أَرْسَلْنَا مِنْ رَسُولٍ إِلَّا لِيُطَاعَ بِإِذْنِ اللَّهِ ۚ وَلَوْ أَنَّهُمْ إِذْ ظَلَمُوا أَنْفُسَهُمْ جَاءُوكَ فَاسْتَغْفَرُوا اللَّهَ وَاسْتَغْفَرَ لَهُمُ الرَّسُولُ لَوَجَدُوا اللَّهَ تَوَّابًا رَحِيمًا {64}

[Shakir 4:64] And We did not send any messenger but that he should be obeyed by Allah's permission; and had they, when they were unjust to themselves, come to you and asked forgiveness of Allah and the Messenger had (also) asked forgiveness for them, they would have found Allah Oft-returning (to mercy), Merciful.

It appears that if what this stupid person is saying, is correct, the na'udobillah, neither the Prophet (صلى الله عليه وآله وسلم) knew that his asking of forgiveness for companions is a shirk nor the companions knew that they don't really need to go to the Prophet (صلى الله عليه وآله وسلم) for asking forgiveness of Allah (سُبْحَانَهُ وَ تَعَالَى). 

Interestingly, every Prophet sent by Allah (سُبْحَانَهُ وَ تَعَالَى) has taught the touheed to his nation in a best manner. Lets take the example of Prophet Noah (عليه السلام) and Quran quoted him:

قَالَ يَا قَوْمِ إِنِّي لَكُمْ نَذِيرٌ مُبِينٌ 

أَنِ اعْبُدُوا اللَّهَ وَاتَّقُوهُ وَأَطِيعُونِ

71:2-3) He said: O my people! Surely I am a plain warner to you: That you should serve Allah and be careful of (your duty to) Him and obey me:

Accepting all these conditions would result in following:

يَغْفِرْ لَكُمْ مِنْ ذُنُوبِكُمْ وَيُؤَخِّرْكُمْ إِلَىٰ أَجَلٍ مُسَمًّى ۚ إِنَّ أَجَلَ اللَّهِ إِذَا جَاءَ لَا يُؤَخَّرُ ۖ لَوْ كُنْتُمْ تَعْلَمُونَ

71:4) He will forgive you some of your faults and grant you a delay to an appointed term; surely the term of Allah when it comes is not postponed; did you but know!

So one's obedience to a Prophet of Allah (سُبْحَانَهُ وَ تَعَالَى) itself is a waseelah for the forgiveness of some sins as per this verse. And that is not limited to life or death of Prophet. Like being Muslims, it is obligation on us to obey the Messenger of Allah, his every commands which reach to us through reliable sources irrespective of whether he is alive in this world or moved to hereafter. Our obedience to Prophet (صلى الله عليه وآله وسلم) is still a wasilah for us for getting closer to Allah (سُبْحَانَهُ وَ تَعَالَى) and for the forgiveness of our sins. 

So Allah (سُبْحَانَهُ وَ تَعَالَى) commanded the Prophet Noah (عليه السلام) to build an Ark. People were laughing at him when he was building the Ark. Every divine communication was only between Allah (سُبْحَانَهُ وَ تَعَالَى) & Prophet Noah (عليه السلام). None of the believer from his nation saw any angel bringing any divine command nor they heard from angel, the divine words revealed to him. They just obeyed him when he called them to get into the safinah. They just believed him when he gave them the news about the tufaan. And the passengers of that Ark remained safe from the divine punishment. 

Our Prophet (صلى الله عليه وآله وسلم) too introduced some personalities as "Safinah e Noah" and we are watching people are laughing, calling those who believed on the words of Prophet (صلى الله عليه وآله وسلم) as kafirs, mushrik. Not even understanding what was the Safinah of Noah (عليه السلام):

وَاصْنَعِ الْفُلْكَ بِأَعْيُنِنَا وَوَحْيِنَا وَلاَ تُخَاطِبْنِي فِي الَّذِينَ ظَلَمُواْ إِنَّهُم مُّغْرَقُونَ

11:37) And make the ark before Our eyes and (according to) Our revelation, and do not speak to Me in respect of those who are unjust; surely they shall be drowned.

Had the Prophet Muhammad (صلى الله عليه وآله وسلم) made what he called as "Ark of Noah" on his own? Without being in the sight of Allah (سُبْحَانَهُ وَ تَعَالَى) & without His revelation and without His direction? Anyone who thinks that could be anything but not Muslim at least.

إنما مثل أهل بيتي فيكم كمثل سفينة نوح (عليه السلام)، من دخلها نجا، ومن تخلف عنها غرق

These are the words of Prophet (صلى الله عليه وآله وسلم) as quoted by Sunni's and Shias both. 

And the irony is that every believer have to embark this Ark, if he truly want salvation. There is no exception, nothing other is added here. The only thing is the Safinah which assures our safety. Even the companions need to embark the Safinah. 

This Safinah, introduced by Prophet (صلى الله عليه وآله وسلم), is owned by Allah (سُبْحَانَهُ وَ تَعَالَى). He confirmed us with the قول الثابت that these blessed personalities infact are the wasilah by revealing for them the verse of purification. 

He (سُبْحَانَهُ وَ تَعَالَى) has mentioned these personalities in His book with different names and attributes. One only need to open up his eyes and softens his heart for accepting the truth. Now I have given one command of Prophet (صلى الله عليه وآله وسلم) (unanimously accepted by all sects), lets see who is going to accept this command, who is going to obey Prophet (صلى الله عليه وآله وسلم) & embarked in the Ark of Salvation.

Unfortunately, we have seen that the Ummah has torn apart this Ark of Salvation. They disobeyed or in less strict words, they ignored, what was prescribed for them by Prophet (صلى الله عليه وآله وسلم) to the effect that they have made the Ahlul Bayt (عليه السلام), the idols. Anyone who follow them or keeps for them love in his heart, is turned into an idol worshiper. 

What a shame!!! What a shame indeed!!

Neither you yourself obey the recommendations & commands of Prophet (صلى الله عليه وآله وسلم) when it comes to leadership & salvation, nor you want to allow it for others. For you there is no such thing as "Ark of Noah", for you there is no wasilah for you. Hence for you there is no salvation.

:) Time to move onto the 2nd argument, but after a long break. Stay tuned.

Wassalam!!

Nothing you claim is clear to what your saying. You go thru 7 back doors to enter the living room when the front door is wide open and clear for us. 
 

so all Muslims are trying to get to the living room. 
 

we are all there already worshipping god, why are YOU TRYING so hard to go thru 7 back doors when it doesn’t benefit you? Just come thru the front and do what Muhammad , Ali, hussain, Fatima, Zeinab, Hassan, Hussein, umar, abu baker, eissa, mussa, Ibrahim did  

—— 

what I’m saying is, WHAT are all the Muslims who DONT need imams for tawassul who are ALREADY worshipping Allah/and pleasing Allah, what are they doing wrong that we need to go thru all this that you go thru!!????

 

Everything that you claim I see is pointless and an addon. Muhammad never preached any of this. He says follow his family. But you are claiming all these things as if you knew his family. Or as it is better to do whatever you are doing when the prophet never taught these things. 99% of Islam was complete when Muhammad died. 
They taught us how to worship Allah 


 

why does asking for forgiveness from Allah compared to Muhammad in the Quran is a 1 to 1000 ratio

That’s because it was a special request for certain people who needed it. And Muhammad begged for their forgiveness. Muhammad (صلى الله عليه وآله وسلم) is DEAD and is with Allah. 
 

do you think all your messages to Muhammad was successfully transmitted? Then he leaned over and told Allah to forgive you? When Allah clearly tells 100 times to only ask him???

 

you are being blinded by something 

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On 11/27/2006 at 10:05 AM, abu-usaama said:

The Second Argument

Now, if he responds, "But these verses were revealed regarding people who used to worship idols! How can you compare the pious people that we turn to idols? And how can you make prophets into idols?"

Then once again respond to him with knowledge that has already gone before in this tract. And that is because, if he admits that the pagans of old believed in the complete Rububiyyah of Allah, and that they only desired by turning to their idols intercession on their behalf, and he desires to differentiate between what they used to do and what he is doing, then show him that amongst the disbelieving pagans were those that worshipped idols and stones, and also others that worshipped pious people. It is concerning these people that were worshipped besides Allah that Allah says , "These people are the ones calling out to their Lord, trying to find a means of nearness to Him, which of them will be closer (to Him)..." [surah Al-Isra; 57]. And some of these pagans would worship Jesus the son of Mary, and his mother even though Allah says: "Jesus the son of Mary is only a messenger, many are the messengers that have come before him. And his mother was a righteous woman" [surah Al-Maidah; 75]. And remind this person of the statement of Allah, "And on the Day shall We resurrect them all, then He will say to the angels, 'Did these (people) used to worship you?' They will respond: 'Glory be to you..." [surah Saba'; 40-41]. And remind him also of Allah's statement, "And when Allah will ask, 'O Jesus the son of Mary, did you tell the people: take me and my mother as gods besides Allah?'" [surah al-Ma'idah; 116]

So after presenting all of these evidences tell him: "You now realize that Allah pronounced disbelief upon hose people who turned to idols, and He also pronounced disbelief upon those who turned to pious people. And the Prophet (peace and blessings of Allah be upon him) fought all of these people and did not differentiate between them.

I am laughing at this stupid person. How he is trying to extrapolate desperately from the verses of Quran that there is no wasilah for Allah (سُبْحَانَهُ وَ تَعَالَى) except He Himself.

We have already discussed the verse 17:57, and that is in connection with the earlier verse 17:56 where Allah (سُبْحَانَهُ وَ تَعَالَى) said this:

قُلِ ادْعُوا الَّذِينَ زَعَمْتُمْ مِنْ دُونِهِ
17:56) Say: Cry unto those (saints and angels) whom ye assume (to be gods)

After this, it would be easy for everyone to understand the verse 17:57 and I have discussed the two verses in detail in my previous comment. So moving to the next verse 5:57, again it was the assumption of people that Jesus is na’udobillah, the son of God as well as their aqeedah of trinity. Had Jesus (عليه السلام) said this to his people that I am a son of God or had he mentioned the concept of trinity, it would be considered as divine message and then there would be no blame on his people to understand him as what he taught. Because Allah (سُبْحَانَهُ وَ تَعَالَى) has made obligatory on people, his obedience.  So this verse too is misquoted, the intention is appeared as corrupt.

Now coming to the verses 34:40-41, this intellectually dishonest person has not quoted the complete verse # 41, Let me quote here the full verse to show you his dishonesty:

“They shall say: Glory be to Thee! Thou art our Guardian, not they; nay! they worshipped the jinn; most of them were believers in them” 34:41

Hiding the testimony of Angels for using this verse for his own specific agenda.

And now coming to the verse 5:116 quoted by this intellectually dishonest person, “And when Allah will ask, 'O Jesus the son of Mary, did you tell the people: take me and my mother as gods besides Allah?'"

This is a question will be asked by Allah (سُبْحَانَهُ وَ تَعَالَى)  and its answer is present in the very next verse 5:117

“I did not say to them aught save what Thou didst enjoin me with: That serve Allah, my Lord and your Lord, and I was a witness of them so long as I was among them, but when Thou didst cause me to die, Thou wert the watcher over them, and Thou art witness of all things.” 5:117

Hence, it is proved again that what his people have invented were their own assumptions, conjectures and nothing else.

Now we have discussed all of his quoted verses, I am asking this intellectually dishonest person what is with you that you don’t accept the words of Prophet Muhammad (صلى الله عليه وآله وسلم) where he introduced his Ahlul Bayt (عليه السلام) as Ark of Noah? What is with you that you are not accepting Prophet’s words where he is introducing his Ahlul Bayt (عليه السلام) as one of the two weighty things (thaqalayn)?  Were these not the words of Prophet (صلى الله عليه وآله وسلم)? Had he not teach us that? 

And do we accept these words of Prophet (صلى الله عليه وآله وسلم) more that what he mentioned? What is an Ark? An Ark, in general sense, is a "waseelah" for us to cross the river or ocean. So when Prophet (صلى الله عليه وآله وسلم) is introducing living human beings as an Ark, what was he intending? What message he probably wanted to deliver other than that these blessed personalities are a wasilah for you, if you stick with them you will not be drowned & will never be misguided.  

Now I will be moving to the third argument presented by this ignorant person, but after a short break, as I have other jobs to do at the moment. So stay tuned.

Wassalam!!!

 

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17 hours ago, Guest Guest said:

we are all there already worshipping god, why are YOU TRYING so hard to go thru 7 back doors when it doesn’t benefit you? Just come thru the front and do what Muhammad , Ali, hussain, Fatima, Zeinab, Hassan, Hussein, umar, abu baker, eissa, mussa, Ibrahim did  

:hahaha:, First of all, its not a back door. Secondly benefits are mentioned right below in already quoted hadith:

On 10/10/2021 at 6:22 PM, Cool said:

مثل أهل بيتي فيكم كمثل سفينة نوح في قوم نوح من ركبها نجا، ومن تخلف عنها هلك، ومثل باب حطة في بني إسرائيل)

Are you doing what was prescribed to you by Prophet (صلى الله عليه وآله وسلم)? No, for you its a back door. Shame!!

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Since we are discussing the OP in light of the verses of Quran and the hadith of Prophet (صلى الله عليه وآله وسلم) in which he introduced the Ahlul Bayt (عليه السلام) as "Safina e Noah" (Ark of Noah). I have quoted a verse earlier:

20 hours ago, Cool said:

وَاصْنَعِ الْفُلْكَ بِأَعْيُنِنَا وَوَحْيِنَا وَلاَ تُخَاطِبْنِي فِي الَّذِينَ ظَلَمُواْ إِنَّهُم مُّغْرَقُونَ

11:37) And make the ark before Our eyes and (according to) Our revelation, and do not speak to Me in respect of those who are unjust; surely they shall be drowned.

So a question would possibly arise in your minds that Allah (سُبْحَانَهُ وَ تَعَالَى) is calling the Ark as الفلك for Ark of Noah while Prophet (صلى الله عليه وآله وسلم) has used the word سفينة for Ark of Noah. Why is there this difference? 

This is the balaghah of Arabic language and an ai'jaz of Quran Al-Hakeem. 

First, let me quote another verse to make my point clear to all of you:

فَأَنْجَيْنَاهُ وَأَصْحَابَ السَّفِينَةِ وَجَعَلْنَاهَا آيَةً لِلْعَالَمِينَ {15}

[Shakir 29:15] So We delivered him (Noah) and the inmates of the ark, and made it a sign to the nations.

See here Allah (سُبْحَانَهُ وَ تَعَالَى) has used the word السفينة for Ark. 

Now why is the difference? 

السفينة means a ship that floats on water or goes over water while  الفلك is also a ship or anything that ships cross the water from, e.g., ships & submarines that go underwater are both the examples of الفلك. 

Point is that every Safinah is an Ark ( الفلك) but not every Ark is a Safinah. 

Furthermore, here is another verse:

فَأَنْجَيْنَاهُ وَمَنْ مَعَهُ فِي الْفُلْكِ الْمَشْحُونِ {119}

[Shakir 26:119] So We delivered him and those with him in the laden ark.

Here the word الفلك is indicating that the ship has not started to float or sail over water in that storm. 

Now try to understand the reason why Prophet (صلى الله عليه وآله وسلم) has used the word Safinah. The السفينة نوح introduced by Prophet (صلى الله عليه وآله وسلم) is already sailing through or moving over water. The ones not embarked on it will definitely will get drowned, their every effort & exercise to save themselves would be useless & is not sufficient to protect themselves. 

Its like we all are drowning in the sea of this worldly life and there is a Safinah, a ship floating over the water,  the only way to save ourselves is to get to the ship as soon as possible. 

And we have seen what happened with the son of Prophet Noah (عليه السلام) who refused to get on board to the ship and said that he will get refuge on a mountain. And he drowned. 

Nothing was left safe except the ones embarked on the Ark that day. 

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18 hours ago, Guest Guest said:

Muhammad (صلى الله عليه وآله وسلم) is DEAD and is with Allah. 

And what about his role as a witness? 

وَكَذَٰلِكَ جَعَلْنَاكُمْ أُمَّةً وَسَطًا لِتَكُونُوا شُهَدَاءَ عَلَى النَّاسِ وَيَكُونَ الرَّسُولُ عَلَيْكُمْ شَهِيدًا ۗ وَمَا جَعَلْنَا الْقِبْلَةَ الَّتِي كُنْتَ عَلَيْهَا إِلَّا لِنَعْلَمَ مَنْ يَتَّبِعُ الرَّسُولَ مِمَّنْ يَنْقَلِبُ عَلَىٰ عَقِبَيْهِ ۚ وَإِنْ كَانَتْ لَكَبِيرَةً إِلَّا عَلَى الَّذِينَ هَدَى اللَّهُ ۗ وَمَا كَانَ اللَّهُ لِيُضِيعَ إِيمَانَكُمْ ۚ إِنَّ اللَّهَ بِالنَّاسِ لَرَءُوفٌ رَحِيمٌ {143}

[Shakir 2:143] And thus We have made you a medium (just) nation that you may be the bearers of witness to the people and (that) the Messenger may be a bearer of witness to you; and We did not make that which you would have to be the qiblah but that We might distinguish him who follows the Messenger from him who turns back upon his heels, and this was surely hard except for those whom Allah has guided aright; and Allah was not going to make your faith to be fruitless; most surely Allah is Affectionate, Merciful to the people.

Do you think Allah (سُبْحَانَهُ وَ تَعَالَى) would depute a dead, blind & deaf as a witness over the living ones? 

Fact is that your ideology is exposed. See your words what you are saying and what Quran is saying. 50% Quran would not help you in any way. Quran as a whole will help you. And that Quran is with Ali (عليه السلام) and Ali (عليه السلام) is with Quran according to another unanimously accepted hadith. 

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3 hours ago, Cool said:

And what about his role as a witness? 

وَكَذَٰلِكَ جَعَلْنَاكُمْ أُمَّةً وَسَطًا لِتَكُونُوا شُهَدَاءَ عَلَى النَّاسِ وَيَكُونَ الرَّسُولُ عَلَيْكُمْ شَهِيدًا ۗ وَمَا جَعَلْنَا الْقِبْلَةَ الَّتِي كُنْتَ عَلَيْهَا إِلَّا لِنَعْلَمَ مَنْ يَتَّبِعُ الرَّسُولَ مِمَّنْ يَنْقَلِبُ عَلَىٰ عَقِبَيْهِ ۚ وَإِنْ كَانَتْ لَكَبِيرَةً إِلَّا عَلَى الَّذِينَ هَدَى اللَّهُ ۗ وَمَا كَانَ اللَّهُ لِيُضِيعَ إِيمَانَكُمْ ۚ إِنَّ اللَّهَ بِالنَّاسِ لَرَءُوفٌ رَحِيمٌ {143}

[Shakir 2:143] And thus We have made you a medium (just) nation that you may be the bearers of witness to the people and (that) the Messenger may be a bearer of witness to you; and We did not make that which you would have to be the qiblah but that We might distinguish him who follows the Messenger from him who turns back upon his heels, and this was surely hard except for those whom Allah has guided aright; and Allah was not going to make your faith to be fruitless; most surely Allah is Affectionate, Merciful to the people.

Do you think Allah (سُبْحَانَهُ وَ تَعَالَى) would depute a dead, blind & deaf as a witness over the living ones? 

Fact is that your ideology is exposed. See your words what you are saying and what Quran is saying. 50% Quran would not help you in any way. Quran as a whole will help you. And that Quran is with Ali (عليه السلام) and Ali (عليه السلام) is with Quran according to another unanimously accepted hadith. 

I know the real Ali better than you. 
 

Goodluck

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4 hours ago, Dubilex said:

Both sunnis and shias are committing shirk

How? Sunnis are wrong for labelling them selves Sunni. And apparently some Shias say Sunnis worship or call on the Sahabas to mediate as Shias do Ali. but I’ve never met even one. Either party who does is commuting shirk unknowingly. And if they still do after being knowledges about it I doubt Allah will be pleased but Allah is the judge so not my problem. 

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2 hours ago, Guest Guest said:

Shias say Sunnis worship or call on the Sahabas to mediate as Shias do Ali.

All Shias believe it is haram to worship and prostrate to the A'immah (عليه السلام).

6 hours ago, Dubilex said:

shias are committing shirk

How so?

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4 hours ago, Muhammad Al-Hurr said:

All Shias believe it is haram to worship and prostrate to the A'immah (عليه السلام).

 

I’m aware. But I have met Shias who worship the Imam. Not prostrating worship. But holding a high value as one could compare to a god. And that is the reason Shiism is wrong. NOT the fact that it is wrong to love Ahlul bayt. But the culture that it has created. 
not to mention 

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On 11/27/2006 at 10:05 AM, abu-usaama said:

But I turn to them, hoping that their intercession will be accepted by Allah."

So the response to this excuse is to say: This is exactly the excuse of the pagan Arabs of old - word for word. And the proof for this is when you recite to him the verse, "And those that have taken protectors besides Him (say): We only worship them to come closer to Allah [ Surah Al-Zumar; 3]. And recite to them also the verse, "And they say that these (idols) are our intercessors in front of Allah." [surah Yunus; 18].

The above quotation is from the third argument of OP.

This stupid person don't even know there are things which are made obligatory by Allah (سُبْحَانَهُ وَ تَعَالَى) on us and we have to obey those divine commands:

a) We need to obey Prophet (صلى الله عليه وآله وسلم) & the Ulil Amr (عليه السلام) as per 4:59 of Quran.

b) We have to keep mawaddat for Ahlul Bayt (عليه السلام) in our hearts as per ayah e mawaddat of Quran.

c) We have to cling with Quran & Ahlul Bayt (عليه السلام) as they are the two weighty things according to hadith e thaqalayn.

So our love for Ahlul Bayt (عليه السلام) is not like the love which pagans keep for their idols:

وَمِنَ النَّاسِ مَن يَتَّخِذُ مِن دُونِ اللّهِ أَندَاداً يُحِبُّونَهُمْ كَحُبِّ اللّهِ 

2:165) And there are some among men who take for themselves objects of worship besides Allah, whom they love as they love Allah, 

In fact our love for Ahlul Bayt (عليه السلام) is solely in obedience to Allah (سُبْحَانَهُ وَ تَعَالَى):

 قُل لَّا أَسْأَلُكُمْ عَلَيْهِ أَجْرًا إِلَّا الْمَوَدَّةَ فِي الْقُرْبَى 

42:23

Now coming to the point of intercession, we believe in Prophet s a.w as شفيع المذنبين، and we also believe that all the bearers of divine covenant are شافعين for believers and this is not our own invented ideology. Allah (سُبْحَانَهُ وَ تَعَالَى) has said this in Quran:

لَا يَمْلِكُونَ الشَّفَاعَةَ إِلَّا مَنِ اتَّخَذَ عِنْدَ الرَّحْمَٰنِ عَهْدًا

19:87) They shall not control intercession, save he who has made a covenant with the Beneficent Allah.

وَلَا يَمْلِكُ الَّذِينَ يَدْعُونَ مِن دُونِهِ الشَّفَاعَةَ إِلَّا مَن شَهِدَ بِالْحَقِّ وَهُمْ يَعْلَمُونَ

43:86) And those whom they call upon besides Him have no authority for intercession, but he who bears witness of the truth and they know (him).

It appears that you have totally ignored these verses of Quran. You have made up your mind to declare the ones whose obedience is made obligatory by Allah (سُبْحَانَهُ وَ تَعَالَى), whom He commanded us to love and whom He introduced in the exceptions as shafi'een, the bearers of divine covenant, the ones who bears witness of the truth etc.

 

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45 minutes ago, Cool said:

The above quotation is from the third argument of OP.

This stupid person don't even know there are things which are made obligatory by Allah (سُبْحَانَهُ وَ تَعَالَى) on us and we have to obey those divine commands:

a) We need to obey Prophet (صلى الله عليه وآله وسلم) & the Ulil Amr (عليه السلام) as per 4:59 of Quran.

b) We have to keep mawaddat for Ahlul Bayt (عليه السلام) in our hearts as per ayah e mawaddat of Quran.

c) We have to cling with Quran & Ahlul Bayt (عليه السلام) as they are the two weighty things according to hadith e thaqalayn.

So our love for Ahlul Bayt (عليه السلام) is not like the love which pagans keep for their idols:

وَمِنَ النَّاسِ مَن يَتَّخِذُ مِن دُونِ اللّهِ أَندَاداً يُحِبُّونَهُمْ كَحُبِّ اللّهِ 

2:165) And there are some among men who take for themselves objects of worship besides Allah, whom they love as they love Allah, 

In fact our love for Ahlul Bayt (عليه السلام) is solely in obedience to Allah (سُبْحَانَهُ وَ تَعَالَى):

 قُل لَّا أَسْأَلُكُمْ عَلَيْهِ أَجْرًا إِلَّا الْمَوَدَّةَ فِي الْقُرْبَى 

42:23

Now coming to the point of intercession, we believe in Prophet s a.w as شفيع المذنبين، and we also believe that all the bearers of divine covenant are شافعين for believers and this is not our own invented ideology. Allah (سُبْحَانَهُ وَ تَعَالَى) has said this in Quran:

لَا يَمْلِكُونَ الشَّفَاعَةَ إِلَّا مَنِ اتَّخَذَ عِنْدَ الرَّحْمَٰنِ عَهْدًا

19:87) They shall not control intercession, save he who has made a covenant with the Beneficent Allah.

وَلَا يَمْلِكُ الَّذِينَ يَدْعُونَ مِن دُونِهِ الشَّفَاعَةَ إِلَّا مَن شَهِدَ بِالْحَقِّ وَهُمْ يَعْلَمُونَ

43:86) And those whom they call upon besides Him have no authority for intercession, but he who bears witness of the truth and they know (him).

It appears that you have totally ignored these verses of Quran. You have made up your mind to declare the ones whose obedience is made obligatory by Allah (سُبْحَانَهُ وَ تَعَالَى), whom He commanded us to love and whom He introduced in the exceptions as shafi'een, the bearers of divine covenant, the ones who bears witness of the truth etc.

 

To make it simple and plain for you. 
 

as a person who labels himself just a Muslim, I am Alhamdillah not doing nothing wrong, I am following all the teachings of Muhammad on how to be close to Allah. And how to please Allah. And Muhammad never needed an intercessor (especially not his own grandson) nor did he teach us to need one. So bottom line Alhamdillah I am on my way to jannah so long as I continue to fast pray donate and try to do my best. And of course ask for forgiveness from the LORD himself Allah. 
 

YOU are inshallah doing all that so good, but you are including unnecessary things that might fall onto the risk of SHIRK

WHEN it’s not even NEEDED to do it in the first place because as a Muslim you don’t need to. But as a Shia Muslim you do. 
 

salam Alaykum, Jummaa Mubarakah

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On 10/14/2021 at 4:24 PM, Guest Guest said:

I’m aware. But I have met Shias who worship the Imam. Not prostrating worship. But holding a high value as one could compare to a god. And that is the reason Shiism is wrong. NOT the fact that it is wrong to love Ahlul bayt. But the culture that it has created. 
not to mention 

If a person "worships" an Imam or raises his status to that of a god, then this is no Shi'i. This is a mushrik. No true follower (Shi'i) of the Ahl al-Bayt would do such things.

Don't look at what other so-called Shias do, look at the main beliefs of Shias that are supported by the Quran and teachings of the Ahl al-Bayt.

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5 hours ago, Muhammad Al-Hurr said:

If a person "worships" an Imam or raises his status to that of a god, then this is no Shi'i. This is a mushrik. No true follower (Shi'i) of the Ahl al-Bayt would do such things.

Don't look at what other so-called Shias do, look at the main beliefs of Shias that are supported by the Quran and teachings of the Ahl al-Bayt.

I’m waiting for a Shia to list me their Fundamentals Beliefs that make them a “Shia”

and I’m waiting for that person to show proof to why I as a normal Muslim need to implement those in my Life 

 

if you read this and choose not too, then I take it you are not educated enough, I don’t want to believe that another fellow Muslim who claims to be Muslim would read this not care to prove me? I am honestly saying if the proof was hardcore enough I would claim to be a “Shia”, but from my studies there is not REASON to label/ or follow your teachings. 
 

and I am generalizing on the teachings from the most Shias I have seen (hence me stating that many Shias “idolize” without worshipping the ahlul bayt) which shows me enough I need to know about a culture. 
 

why don’t you tell most Shias here that it is haram to use the imams as an intermediate to Allah, if you don’t believe so, list your fundamentals that make you a shia and tell us Why using Quran if and only hadith that affirm the Quranic verses. We can debate those. But I will reject any hadith that are out of the blue and tell me to do something that the Quran never taught ANYthing about. 

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12 hours ago, Guest Guest said:

And Muhammad never needed an intercessor (especially not his own grandson) nor did he teach us to need one

Muhammad (صلى الله عليه وآله وسلم) and his family, (brother, daughter, the two grandsons) are the misl of باب حطه for us, and that is according to his teachings.

Ahlul Bayt as for us, are the Ark of Noah (عليه السلام), that too is according to the teachings of Prophet (صلى الله عليه وآله وسلم) 

What is Bab e Hattah and what is the Ark of Noah? It is solely depends on you to understand, in light of the verses of Quran. To me, it is quite clear:

وَإِذْ قُلْنَا ادْخُلُوا هَٰذِهِ الْقَرْيَةَ فَكُلُوا مِنْهَا حَيْثُ شِئْتُمْ رَغَدًا وَادْخُلُوا الْبَابَ سُجَّدًا وَقُولُوا حِطَّةٌ نَغْفِرْ لَكُمْ خَطَايَاكُمْ ۚ وَسَنَزِيدُ الْمُحْسِنِينَ {58}

[Shakir 2:58] And when We said: Enter this city, then eat from it a plenteous (food) wherever you wish, and enter the gate making obeisance, and say, forgiveness. We will forgive you your wrongs and give more to those who do good (to others).

"The city mentioned here may be in the land of Canaan according to Numbers 33:52 of the Old Testament.

As commanded by Allah, Musa gave instructions to the Bani Israil to enter the city through its gate prostrating, and saying: "I seek forgiveness of the Lord and turn repentant unto Him", because therein they would live in peace and harmony with plenty of provisions.

The Holy Prophet informed his followers, Muslims, about another city with its gate. He said:

I am the city of knowledge and Ali is its gate.

If anyone wants to come into contact with the divinely endowed wisdom of the Holy Prophet, he should first get familiar with Ali not only by building up close attachment with him but also by paying homage to him with expression of reverence. In Tafsir Durr al Manthur, Jalaluddin Suyuti quotes Ali ibna abi Talib:

Our position in Islam to the Muslims is the same as the gate of hitta was to the Bani Israil."

وَإِذْ قِيلَ لَهُمُ اسْكُنُوا هَٰذِهِ الْقَرْيَةَ وَكُلُوا مِنْهَا حَيْثُ شِئْتُمْ وَقُولُوا حِطَّةٌ وَادْخُلُوا الْبَابَ سُجَّدًا نَغْفِرْ لَكُمْ خَطِيئَاتِكُمْ ۚ سَنَزِيدُ الْمُحْسِنِينَ {161}

[Shakir 7:161] And when it was said to them: Reside in this town and eat from it wherever you wish, and say, Put down from us our heavy burdens: and enter the gate making obeisance, We will forgive you your wrongs: We will give more to those who do good (to others).

Why Allah (سُبْحَانَهُ وَ تَعَالَى) has commanded the bani Isra'il "through" Musa (عليه السلام) to enter into the city through its gate, doing sajdah & saying hittah? Why He taught them this way for accepting their repentance? 

Please burden your brain for doing some thought process or even search the history.

وَاصْنَعِ الْفُلْكَ بِأَعْيُنِنَا وَوَحْيِنَا وَلَا تُخَاطِبْنِي فِي الَّذِينَ ظَلَمُوا ۚ إِنَّهُمْ مُغْرَقُونَ {37}

[Shakir 11:37] And make the ark before Our eyes and (according to) Our revelation, and do not speak to Me in respect of those who are unjust; surely they shall be drowned.

The Ark introduced by Prophet Muhammad (صلى الله عليه وآله وسلم) was made by himself without divine guidance? Without being in the sight of Allah (سُبْحَانَهُ وَ تَعَالَى) and without His directions? 

What was the purpose of Ark of Noah (عليه السلام)? To protect the believers or something else? What was the Ark of Noah itself? A waseelah or something else? 

So the Ark introduced by Prophet (صلى الله عليه وآله وسلم) is made to protect us. We have to embark in it for our own salvation. We cannot, in any way, throw out from our hearts, the ma'rifah of Ark. It is a waseelah for us, it is a source of protection for us provided by Allah (سُبْحَانَهُ وَ تَعَالَى). We have no problem if anyone say us Mushrik, Kafir, Pagan or whatever he like to say. We are for Allah and to Him shall we return. Our act of getting on board to the Ark, is an act of worship Allah, our act of recognizing the Ark is an act of worship of Allah (سُبْحَانَهُ وَ تَعَالَى) and our facing death with the love of Ahlul Bayt (عليه السلام) in our hearts, is an act of worship of Allah. Our life, every breath we take, every heart beat, with the love of Ahlul Bayt (عليه السلام), is a worship of Allah (سُبْحَانَهُ وَ تَعَالَى) alone. 

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18 minutes ago, Cool said:

Muhammad (صلى الله عليه وآله وسلم) and his family, (brother, daughter, the two grandsons) are the misl of باب حطه for us, and that is according to his teachings.

Ahlul Bayt as for us, are the Ark of Noah (عليه السلام), that too is according to the teachings of Prophet (صلى الله عليه وآله وسلم) 

What is Bab e Hattah and what is the Ark of Noah? It is solely depends on you to understand, in light of the verses of Quran. To me, it is quite clear:

وَإِذْ قُلْنَا ادْخُلُوا هَٰذِهِ الْقَرْيَةَ فَكُلُوا مِنْهَا حَيْثُ شِئْتُمْ رَغَدًا وَادْخُلُوا الْبَابَ سُجَّدًا وَقُولُوا حِطَّةٌ نَغْفِرْ لَكُمْ خَطَايَاكُمْ ۚ وَسَنَزِيدُ الْمُحْسِنِينَ {58}

[Shakir 2:58] And when We said: Enter this city, then eat from it a plenteous (food) wherever you wish, and enter the gate making obeisance, and say, forgiveness. We will forgive you your wrongs and give more to those who do good (to others).

"The city mentioned here may be in the land of Canaan according to Numbers 33:52 of the Old Testament.

As commanded by Allah, Musa gave instructions to the Bani Israil to enter the city through its gate prostrating, and saying: "I seek forgiveness of the Lord and turn repentant unto Him", because therein they would live in peace and harmony with plenty of provisions.

The Holy Prophet informed his followers, Muslims, about another city with its gate. He said:

I am the city of knowledge and Ali is its gate.

If anyone wants to come into contact with the divinely endowed wisdom of the Holy Prophet, he should first get familiar with Ali not only by building up close attachment with him but also by paying homage to him with expression of reverence. In Tafsir Durr al Manthur, Jalaluddin Suyuti quotes Ali ibna abi Talib:

Our position in Islam to the Muslims is the same as the gate of hitta was to the Bani Israil."

وَإِذْ قِيلَ لَهُمُ اسْكُنُوا هَٰذِهِ الْقَرْيَةَ وَكُلُوا مِنْهَا حَيْثُ شِئْتُمْ وَقُولُوا حِطَّةٌ وَادْخُلُوا الْبَابَ سُجَّدًا نَغْفِرْ لَكُمْ خَطِيئَاتِكُمْ ۚ سَنَزِيدُ الْمُحْسِنِينَ {161}

[Shakir 7:161] And when it was said to them: Reside in this town and eat from it wherever you wish, and say, Put down from us our heavy burdens: and enter the gate making obeisance, We will forgive you your wrongs: We will give more to those who do good (to others).

Why Allah (سُبْحَانَهُ وَ تَعَالَى) has commanded the bani Isra'il "through" Musa (عليه السلام) to enter into the city through its gate, doing sajdah & saying hittah? Why He taught them this way for accepting their repentance? 

Please burden your brain for doing some thought process or even search the history.

وَاصْنَعِ الْفُلْكَ بِأَعْيُنِنَا وَوَحْيِنَا وَلَا تُخَاطِبْنِي فِي الَّذِينَ ظَلَمُوا ۚ إِنَّهُمْ مُغْرَقُونَ {37}

[Shakir 11:37] And make the ark before Our eyes and (according to) Our revelation, and do not speak to Me in respect of those who are unjust; surely they shall be drowned.

The Ark introduced by Prophet Muhammad (صلى الله عليه وآله وسلم) was made by himself without divine guidance? Without being in the sight of Allah (سُبْحَانَهُ وَ تَعَالَى) and without His directions? 

What was the purpose of Ark of Noah (عليه السلام)? To protect the believers or something else? What was the Ark of Noah itself? A waseelah or something else? 

So the Ark introduced by Prophet (صلى الله عليه وآله وسلم) is made to protect us. We have to embark in it for our own salvation. We cannot, in any way, throw out from our hearts, the ma'rifah of Ark. It is a waseelah for us, it is a source of protection for us provided by Allah (سُبْحَانَهُ وَ تَعَالَى). We have no problem if anyone say us Mushrik, Kafir, Pagan or whatever he like to say. We are for Allah and to Him shall we return. Our act of getting on board to the Ark, is an act of worship Allah, our act of recognizing the Ark is an act of worship of Allah (سُبْحَانَهُ وَ تَعَالَى) and our facing death with the love of Ahlul Bayt (عليه السلام) in our hearts, is an act of worship of Allah. Our life, every breath we take, every heart beat, with the love of Ahlul Bayt (عليه السلام), is a worship of Allah (سُبْحَانَهُ وَ تَعَالَى) alone. 

VERY well said, I completely understand now from a shia view!!

thank you for all that. 
 

i still stand on believing that 99% of the shia beliefs are just fabricated and added on. 
 

the love of Ahlul bayt is okay, but I don’t think we need to this much. Hence the confusion between the 5ers and 12ers it’s all unnecessary and extra, least to say. 
 

as the gate thing with the city, I see your point. But who knows exactly word for word of what muhammad said, and what Muhammad meant. 
 

humans have corrupted/added/fabricated many sayings from many people through tour history. And that’s the exact reason the Quran was sent to us. 

the Bible is practically a bunch of hadiths all mashed together and made into a book of god. 
 

shias are using hadith as a primary source when Subhanalllah it can be dangerous when we have 0 proof that any hadith is 100% accurate. 
 

not a risk I’m willing to take 

For the record I do not reject all hadith. 
 

but when someone says Hussain said this and now I have to do it spiritually I cannot 100% accept it as Muhammad didn’t preach it. 
 

even tho you say Muhammad said follow his family, but we are not following his family by following unsure hadiths that you cannot prove. 
 

So again, I am following ahlul bayt just fine with out all the extra stuff tou need to do. The imams were soldiers of Allah and were the best examples of a Muslim. 
 

I will try to be like them, but I don’t need them to please Allah. 

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9 hours ago, Guest Guest said:

still stand on believing that 99% of the shia beliefs are just fabricated and added on. 

Pretty wild guess!!!

So we believe in:

1) Towheed

2) Justice

3) Prophethood

4) Imamate

5) Qiyamah

99% of this figure of 5 is "4.95". So we are either polytheist or either kafir. 

9 hours ago, Guest Guest said:

but I don’t need them to please Allah. 

Means you don't need the "Sirat", "Sabil", "Urwatul Wuthqa", in other words you don't need the advise & recommendations of Prophet (صلى الله عليه وآله وسلم) & Allah (سُبْحَانَهُ وَ تَعَالَى). That is sad!!

And my last word to you is this:

Wassalam!!

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9 minutes ago, Cool said:
9 hours ago, Guest Guest said:

 

Pretty wild guess!!!

So we believe in:

1) Towheed

2) Justice

3) Prophethood

4) Imamate

5) Qiyamah

99% of this figure of 5 is "4.95". So we are either polytheist or either kafir

Don’t dumb me down. 
 

99% of what Shias believe, that are DIFFERENT from what other Muslims believe.. so take point 4) and 99% of that

11 minutes ago, Cool said:

Means you don't need the "Sirat", "Sabil", "Urwatul Wuthqa", in other words you don't need the advise & recommendations of Prophet (صلى الله عليه وآله وسلم) & Allah (سُبْحَانَهُ وَ تَعَالَى). That is sad!!

And my last word to you is this:

Wassalam

Teach me something new. I have asked you 5 times to tell me something that I need to implement in my life that I am missing that Shias do! With proof! Using the Quran! And Hadith that back up the Quran! Not hadith that are out of the blue sayings that 0 of the prophets did!

 

and that’s where you leave!
 

allah maek

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11 hours ago, Guest Guest said:

I’m waiting for a Shia to list me their Fundamentals Beliefs that make them a “Shia”

and I’m waiting for that person to show proof to why I as a normal Muslim need to implement those in my Life 

I will briefly list the fundamental beliefs. If you want an in-depth explanation, refer to the books from the Shia scholars. You can look on al-islam.org for some sources. Also, I do not wish to be dragged into a drawn-out debate as it will lead to no where.

There are five pillars: Tawheed (believing in one god and associating no-one with him), Adalah (believing Allah is completely just), Nabuwwah (believing in all of the prophets that were sent by Allah), Imamah (believing in the twelve successors to the Prophet Muahmmad (SAW)), and believing in the Day of Judgement and Hereafter.

Out of these five pillars, tawheed, nabuwwah and believing in the qiyamah are the most important. If a person rejects any of them, then he is not a Muslim. If a person believes an Imam is a god, he is not a Muslim. If a person believes an Imam has the physical ability to control every atom of the universe, know all of the unseen, and grant wishes to those who supplicate to him as if the Imam is a god, then this person is not a Muslim. If a person does not believe that Prophet Muhammad (صلى الله عليه وآله وسلم) was the last prophet, then he is not a Muslim. If a person rejects salat, then he is not a Muslim because by rejecting salat he is rejecting Allah (سُبْحَانَهُ وَ تَعَالَى) and the Prophet Muhammad (صلى الله عليه وآله وسلم). The list goes on.

Believing in Imamah is not a requirement for being a Muslim. However, it is important and necessary for guidance.

There are 10 branches from the 5 pillars: Salah, fasting in Ramadan, hajj, zakah, khums, jihad, enjoining the good, forbidding the evil, associating oneself with the Ahl al-Bayt and their allies, and disassociating from the enemies of the Ahl al-Bayt. A Muslim is required to adhere to these. If he does not, he is sinful and, in some cases, he can become a kafir.

11 hours ago, Guest Guest said:

and I am generalizing on the teachings from the most Shias I have seen (hence me stating that many Shias “idolize” without worshipping the ahlul bayt) which shows me enough I need to know about a culture. 

Those who follow the teachings of the Ahl al-Bayt are Shia. Those who deviate are not true Shias. Do not base your understanding of Shia beliefs on what you see some others doing.

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12 hours ago, Muhammad Al-Hurr said:

I will briefly list the fundamental beliefs. If you want an in-depth explanation, refer to the books from the Shia scholars. You can look on al-islam.org for some sources. Also, I do not wish to be dragged into a drawn-out debate as it will lead to no where.

There are five pillars: Tawheed (believing in one god and associating no-one with him), Adalah (believing Allah is completely just), Nabuwwah (believing in all of the prophets that were sent by Allah), Imamah (believing in the twelve successors to the Prophet Muahmmad (SAW)), and believing in the Day of Judgement and Hereafter.

Out of these five pillars, tawheed, nabuwwah and believing in the qiyamah are the most important. If a person rejects any of them, then he is not a Muslim. If a person believes an Imam is a god, he is not a Muslim. If a person believes an Imam has the physical ability to control every atom of the universe, know all of the unseen, and grant wishes to those who supplicate to him as if the Imam is a god, then this person is not a Muslim. If a person does not believe that Prophet Muhammad (صلى الله عليه وآله وسلم) was the last prophet, then he is not a Muslim. If a person rejects salat, then he is not a Muslim because by rejecting salat he is rejecting Allah (سُبْحَانَهُ وَ تَعَالَى) and the Prophet Muhammad (صلى الله عليه وآله وسلم). The list goes on.

Believing in Imamah is not a requirement for being a Muslim. However, it is important and necessary for guidance.

There are 10 branches from the 5 pillars: Salah, fasting in Ramadan, hajj, zakah, khums, jihad, enjoining the good, forbidding the evil, associating oneself with the Ahl al-Bayt and their allies, and disassociating from the enemies of the Ahl al-Bayt. A Muslim is required to adhere to these. If he does not, he is sinful and, in some cases, he can become a kafir

Thanks. 
So basically what I replied earlier point 4) by the response of Cool, he stated Imamah. 
 

That is what makes a Shia a Shia Muslim rather than just Muslim?

- I 100% agree it’s important for guidance. We should learn from them and all that has happened in the prophets life hood. 
 

- 4/5 of those pillars are general Islamic pillars. 
imam, since it’s not required then it’s what we just said it’s not required. 
So there’s no point in calling myself Shia or ANY PERSON for that matter 

But to satisfy you, I still do believe in the imamah just not the way you do. Nor do 5ers agree with your 12. 
 

so everybody needs to put aside this “Unrequired” pillar as you said, and learn what to implement in life, and talks, and actions rather than trying to be “Shia” and just call yourself Muslim and please Allah, rather than help separating Islam. 
 

Sorry my grammar is sometimes thrown all over and doesn’t make sense, but Hope you understand my whole scope and what I’m trying to stay. 

12 hours ago, Muhammad Al-Hurr said:

There are 10 branches from the 5 pillars: Salah, fasting in Ramadan, hajj, zakah, khums, jihad, enjoining the good, forbidding the evil, associating oneself with the Ahl al-Bayt and their allies, and disassociating from the enemies of the Ahl al-Bayt. A Muslim is required to adhere to these. If he does not, he is sinful and, in some cases, he can become a kafir

100% of sunnies I know pray and each prayer they pray for the prophet and his whole family. And BECAUSE we are uneducated about the Yazid and Hussein story (in which Shias believe Sunnis love this guy which is unbelievable) sunnis are less prone to understand ahlul bayt because of how Shias have portrayed them. But I will tell you, 0 sunnies I know would ever support an enemy of the prophets grandson! Or the prophet, or Imam Ali. 
 

but most are uneducated about the subject. And this is the problem in life.

Edited by Mahdavist
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Anyone who considers Imamah as not the الضروريات الدين is a stupid person. He could be a Muslim in this world but not a Mo'min. 

The irony of this matter comes from the Quran from the verse balligh:

و ان لم تفعل فما بلغت رسالته

And from the verse of perfection which revealed immediate after sermon of ghadir:

اليوم اكملت لكم دينكم و اتممت عليكم نعمتي

So for those who consider Imamah is not the daroriyat of deen, their deen would be in the state of imperfection, incomplete and above all lacking the pleasure of Allah (سُبْحَانَهُ وَ تَعَالَى)

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3 hours ago, Cool said:

Anyone who considers Imamah as not the الضروريات الدين is a stupid person. He could be a Muslim in this world but not a Mo'min. 

The irony of this matter comes from the Quran from the verse balligh:

و ان لم تفعل فما بلغت رسالته

And from the verse of perfection which revealed immediate after sermon of ghadir:

اليوم اكملت لكم دينكم و اتممت عليكم نعمتي

So for those who consider Imamah is not the daroriyat of deen, their deen would be in the state of imperfection, incomplete and above all lacking the pleasure of Allah (سُبْحَانَهُ وَ تَعَالَى)

Ok why?

I believe in imamat I’m just claiming I believe in it the right way and you don’t. 
 

you claim it’s haram to ask imams for help but only permissible for Shiffa 

but majority of Shias don’t know that and when trouble comes there way they yell out Ya Ali or Ya Hussein. 
 

so that proves my point that we believe in the Imamate the correct way for the leaders they are rather than divined beings who can’t help you the way Allah can. 
 

That’s the bottom Line. If you want to love the Ahlul Bayt The correct way you pray for them, not ask them to pray for you. 

Salam

18 hours ago, Guest Guest said:

100% of sunnies I know pray and each prayer they pray for the prophet and his whole family. And BECAUSE we are uneducated about the Yazid and Hussein story (in which Shias believe Sunnis love this guy which is unbelievable) sunnis are less prone to understand ahlul bayt because of how Shias have portrayed them. But I will tell you, 0 sunnies I know would ever support an enemy of the prophets grandson! Or the prophet, or Imam Ali

Shias on here claim it’s haram to call out to the imams for anything other than for Duaa, 

and there is multiple videos where Shia leaderswho have proudly said sone Shias are giving the ahlul bayt a bad name by saying and doing things they are not supposed to do. 
 

so I’m helping by saying, there is no need to call your self Sunni/Shia but could love the ahlul bayt, do it the right way, and please Allah by just preaching the correct message of Ahlul bayt, and letting your brothers and sisters know you are just a MUSLIM. Erase the sect titles from your minds. This is only adding fuel to a raging fire. 
 

Allah knows best! And we when disagree let’s turn to Allah and his Messenger (as the verse you stated says) 

and Allah Says in the Holy Quran 

 

 Indeed, those who have divided their religion and become sects - you, [O Muhammad], are not [associated] with them in anything. Their affair is only [left] to Allah ; then He will inform them about what they used to do”

 

So why does ANYONE thing they have the audacity to say anything different!

La Hawla Wala Quata Illa Billah

One has labeled me a Quranist for bringing verses from the god he claims to follow. I tell him bring a hadith that differs. men think they are so smart, but their pride allows the devil to conceal their eyes from plain sight.

 

I will never speak from my own opinion. 
 

Please do not respond. With that I conclude. Asalam wa alaykum

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31 minutes ago, Lion of Shia said:

whats the difference of asking imams(عليه السلام)for help and shifa?

“Ya Ali” - When I am in trouble about to get killed 

 

“Ya Ali, ask Allah to cure my sickness” - when I am sick and need Allah to help me 

 

- Either way sounds wrong to me to be honest. 
Allah never said we need anybody, Muhammad never preached it, nor did Ali himself or Hussain preach to ask them. 
 

- not to mention, although a couple Shias on here have told me we cannot ask the imams for help? I doubt a Shia says

”Ya Ali, ask Allah to cure my sickness” 

I’m sure they say

”Ya Ali, cure my sickness”

or “ya Ali, why am I sick” 

when they say, they mean it to go towards Allah as a message, they can’t see it from another point of view that it doesn’t Sound as if they are asking Allah, or literally doesn’t sound as if they are asking Allah. 

(WITHOUT THEM KNOWING , TO WHOM THIS APPLIES) 

ALLAH KNOWS BEST AND WHAT IS IN THE HEART. I AM JUST TRYING TO EDUCATE THE UNKOWINGLY UNEDUCATED WHO WOULD APPRECIATE THIS VIEW. 

I am sure there is tons of information that I am still waiting to be taught!!!!

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36 minutes ago, Guest Guest said:

Allah never said we need anybody, Muhammad never preached it, nor did Ali himself or Hussain preach to ask them. 

Look at verse 4:64.

Yes, tawassul is not necessary and we cannot just do tawassul and not ask Allah directly at all. But doing tawassul occasionally is permissible.

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9 hours ago, Guest Guest said:

you claim it’s haram to ask imams for help but only permissible for Shiffa 

I think I haven't claim any thing of what you are saying. 

Who said it is haram to "ask imams for help"? And where I said such thing?

1 hour ago, Lion of Shia said:

whats the difference of asking imams(عليه السلام)for help and shifa?

Your Imams are presently not infront of you or not in contact with you. 11 out of 12 have tasted the death. The 12th is in occultation by the command of Allah (سُبْحَانَهُ وَ تَعَالَى). 

To ask help from Imams, who are in the curtain of ghayb, either after tasting death or either without, is appeared as something which many people cannot digest. 

And if we look at this problem of theirs, then asking from "Allah" looks like asking from an "ism" (name) because none has physically saw Allah (سُبْحَانَهُ وَ تَعَالَى), He is absolute ghayb, all one know is the "ism" and ism and musamma are two different things. Many Muslims worship the ism only because they say wallah we don't know Allah. That's the base of their problem, since they themselves failed to grasp & understand touheed, they apply their corrupt understanding on others and everything becomes shirk for them. 

Now if you understand Imams as "ism" of Allah (سُبْحَانَهُ وَ تَعَالَى), you are allowed to call Allah (سُبْحَانَهُ وَ تَعَالَى) "through" that ism, just like you call him "through" His ism "Allah". 

If for you, Imams are "wajh Allah", Asmaullah al husna", "Ayn Allah", "Junb Allah", "Yadullah", that would means they are your sources to approach to the very being you worship. You don't worship the asma, you worship the One who is the Creator & Sustainer of everything. Who is apparent yet hidden. The peak of His ma'rifah will take you to the namelessness state of Him where you even get aside from every ism, the only expression for Him remain with you is "Hu" (هو) and that Hu is placed even before His greatest ism "Allah".

قل هو الله احد

هو الله الذي لا اله الا هو

Wassalam!!

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