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In the Name of God بسم الله

So Umrao Jaan Was A Shia


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Brother she is an enemy of the Prophet(pbuh)

http://kitaabun.com/shopping3/product_info...8d7618295767b28

if muawiyah represents the fusion of "islam and democratic arabic values" then all those scholars from ahlesunnah who excluded him from the pious caliphate should be accused of anti-ummayyad bias !!

Edited by Panzerwaffe
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(salam) shias

Now it looks like many here wan't to defame the shias by saying that a bad woman or a fictittious character of a novel is shia.it can never be so.one who is shia really will never dance.some people in lucknow started adopting some practices of shias to get married into the rich shia nawab khandaan or the rich syeds.so if there r or were such people at any time then these r or were not truly shias.some of their practices r of the time before converting to shia faith.I stay in lucknow and have learnt a lot about shia backgroung in lucknow.so please don't call the bad people shia.

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.so please don't call the bad people shia.

Umrao Jaan was not a Shia but she was not a bad person.

Just because she was a dancing woman does not mean she was bad.

In any case, she had been kidnapped and forced into a dancing career.

In the days of Umrao Jaan, Oudh had a very Shia culture. The entertainment industry of Oudh (Lucknow, Faizabad, Bara Banki etc.) would close down during Muharram and Chehlum.

To some extent, that may be the case even today.

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.

In the days of Umrao Jaan, Oudh had a very Shia culture. The entertainment industry of Oudh (Lucknow, Faizabad, Bara Banki etc.) would close down during Muharram and Chehlum.

To some extent, that may be the case even today.

excuse me ..... these entertainers would sing about wine and adultry for 10 months and then those same singers would take up jobs ( highly paid ones) narrating the "heart wrenching" details about karbala, so they in effect switched their roles temporarily...you dont call this hypocrisy ?

Edited by Panzerwaffe
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^ i am not lumping criticizm on the prostitutes alone ...if you read my earlier posts I blame the society created by the nawabs as a whole because it is they who ultimately bear the responsibility for it and this is not what should be called "shia culture"

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Salaamalaikum shias

Panzer does not know what is azadari.so let me explain a little.Azadari mein nauhay,mersia ,soz aaur majaalis wagairah padha jata he.So this is all done without a recruitment agency appointing somebody to do it as you said they do jobs.it is not a job,people do it out of their faith and love for the Ahlul Bayt(a.s).It is done voluntarily.only the Moulvis are paid.In womens majaalis it is usually the local girls,somebody from the family,neighbours or relatives do this noble duty of reciting majaalis,nauha,etc.

If you r a sunni you may better go log in a sunni chat room rather than give such big bad words to the one who are pious and are zakira.in such way you earn only sin and disrespect.it is of no use,nobody is going to stop doing it even if you give a thousand bad words.ok,so be careful.

Edited by bitto
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^ i am not lumping criticizm on the prostitutes alone ...if you read my earlier posts I blame the society created by the nawabs as a whole because it is they who ultimately bear the responsibility for it and this is not what should be called "shia culture"

true

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Salaamalaikum shias

Panzer does not know what is azadari.so let me explain a little.Azadari mein nauhay,mersia ,soz aaur majaalis wagairah padha jata he.So this is all done without a recruitment agency appointing somebody to do it as you said they do jobs.it is not a job,people do it out of their faith and love for the Ahlul Bayt(a.s).It is done voluntarily.only the Moulvis are paid.In womens majaalis it is usually the local girls,somebody from the family,neighbours or relatives do this noble duty of reciting majaalis,nauha,etc.

If you r a sunni you may better go log in a sunni chat room rather than give such big bad words to the one who are pious and are zakira.in such way you earn only sin and disrespect.it is of no use,nobody is going to stop doing it even if you give a thousand bad words.ok,so be careful.

yeah yeah ...big and pious zakirs and zakira ...I know how holy most of these people really are ...they are no better than the mullahs of the sunnis ...

esp. in big cities many majalis are amongst the rich are mainly for social status ...i have seen myself how hotly it is debated amongst aunties what "hisa' will be distributed at the end ...but never EVER heard of a discussion on what was narrated by the zakir or zakira ....

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(salam)

Jesus Christ .. she was a prostitute ...how can she be shia ?... Infact if you go to lahore red light area one will find that all these prostitute dont do business in moharram and some of them have majlis at their place... it doesnt make them shia :S.... does that mean the whole of heera mandi is shia ?What you crazy or wha ? ( btw , it doesnt mean i am into all this dodgy business)

Regards

ALAM.D.

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People making such a big deal about umrao jaan, who cares if she was a shia or not, fictional character or real.

These molvis we have these days they are all real, and from what I know close to 70 thousand of these molvis will be killed by our Imam-e-Zamana, meaning straight to hell, no questions asked :), atleast with her we do not know for sure everything about her, even if she was a fictional character or real.

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(salam)

Jesus Christ .. she was a prostitute ...how can she be shia ?... Infact if you go to lahore red light area one will find that all these prostitute dont do business in moharram and some of them have majlis at their place... it doesnt make them shia :S.... does that mean the whole of heera mandi is shia ?What you crazy or wha ? ( btw , it doesnt mean i am into all this dodgy business)

Regards

ALAM.D.

exactly ...real shiaism is not a culture ...it is a puritan version of Islam

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(salam)

Jesus Christ .. she was a prostitute ...how can she be shia ?... Infact if you go to lahore red light area one will find that all these prostitute dont do business in moharram and some of them have majlis at their place... it doesnt make them shia :S.... does that mean the whole of heera mandi is shia ?What you crazy or wha ? ( btw , it doesnt mean i am into all this dodgy business)

Regards

ALAM.D.

So now, people such as YOU will decide who is Shia and who is not. What arrogance. Get a life buster before issuing edicts. Bloody 'ell, you aren't a mujtahid . . . not even an ornery maulvi . . .

Edited by Fairly_Odd_Girl
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What about the thousands of men who have consorted with prostitutes ? Or who have had pre-marital or extra-marital sex ? They cannot be Shias either, right ?

Do u think its easy to call youself shia ?..... Dont want to get into a debate on this and btw , atleast i aint a shia.. i am a mohib of ahlulbayt and 14 infallibles ....anyways ,why you getting offended ?

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So now, people such as YOU will decide who is Shia and who is not. What arrogance. Get a life buster before issuing edicts. Bloody 'ell, you aren't a mujtahid . . . not even an ornery maulvi . . .

Indeed, many of us have arrogated to ourselves the right to pass judgment on others. How strange !

Do u think its easy to call youself shia ?.....

I never said that. I just asked you a question. But you were unable to give me a coherent answer.

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(salam)

Well to be honest i dont care ... If she wasnt shia , Thanks to Almighty Allah.. because we dont want prostitutes shaking theirs bums on night and next night listening to majlis.....and claiming themselves to be a shia ...

Regards

ALAM.D.

Edited by aalamdar
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Well to be honest i dont care ... If she wasnt shia , Thanks to Almighty Allah.. because we dont want prostitutes shaking theirs bums on night and next night listening to majlis.....and claiming themselves to be a shia ...

(salam)

Are you aware that she came from a very good and respectable family. But she was abducted by thugs and forced into the life she had to lead ?

Are you aware that in the Indian sub-continent, most women of ill-repute have absolutely no choice. If they abandoned their trade, they would be ostracised and abused, have absolutely nowhere to go and would starve to death.

And do you know why you could not answer the questions I asked you ? Because you do not have an answer that you could support with reason in a nice, graceful manner.

So, whether you care or not, as sister fairly_odd_girl pointed out in her post, you have absolutely no right to pass the judgment that you did.

Take care of yourself. That will be better for you.

Was salam

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(salam)

Are you aware that she came from a very good and respectable family. But she was abducted by thugs and forced into the life she had to lead ?

Are you aware that in the Indian sub-continent, most women of ill-repute have absolutely no choice. If they abandoned their trade, they would be ostracised and abused, have absolutely nowhere to go and would starve to death.

And do you know why you could not answer the questions I asked you ? Because you do not have an answer that you could support with reason in a nice, graceful manner.

So, whether you care or not, as sister fairly_odd_girl pointed out in her post, you have absolutely no right to pass the judgment that you did.

Take care of yourself. That will be better for you.

Was salam

(salam)

Yeh Woteva , she was a prostitute and really dont care.... Do one thing if you are allowed to judge then dont even talk abt Yazeed or Mawiyah , dont even judge them , dont even judge Osama , Saddam ......she was a prostitute and every one knows that ...and i have all the right to pass judgement on bad guys ....dont even recite ziarat-e-Waritha or Ziarat-e-Ashoora because it says la-alna ho ummatan Qatalatka ... because it says lanah on ummat who killed Imam hussein

Strange people are defending prostitute... and getting offended when you criticize a prostitute..

Regards

ALAM.D.

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Must everyone be reminded that Umrao Jaan-e-Adaa was a fictional character

May be but the same principle applies to millions of others in the world who are exploited and abused and then judged for their fate rather than their actions. And when you ask why those who have availed their services should not be judged, with no meaningful answers at hand, they try and flex their muscles, leaving behind the norms of civilised debating. Instead of answering my questions in post # 86, my correspondent has resorted to meaningless meandering in subsequent posts.

As far as Islam goes, on the subject of the relations between two groups of people, Islam always takes sides with the weak. The Quran passionately decries exploitation of all sorts and is replete with many verses in support. There were houses of ill-repute even in the time of our Holy Prophet, and he had the inmates properly betrothed and abandon their trade. We Muslims, on the other hand, resurrected the pre-Islamic state of affairs very soon after the Prophet died, and we blame the exploited for our actions. We in the sub-continent share with our brethren in the Middle East an extremely morbid attitude. If an Indian or Pakistani prostitute decided to give up her trade, she would have absolutely no support from the community whatsoever. She would be exploited and abused even more than she is in her current state. Despite her predicament, if she has an iota of love for the Ahlul Bayt and wishes to commemorate their events, I will always be one to respect her claim to the Shia faith, should she have one. Let God be her judge as He will be mine.

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Why all this ruckus about a fictional dancing girl?

There is a distinction between dancing girls and prostitutes.

All sorts of know it alls have been spouting cliches here without having the foggiest about Urdu Literature, the era of Wajid Ali Shah's Oudh, the historic-social contexts of Hadi Ruswa's novel.

How many of have read the original novel by the way?

Or are you just belabouring a dead donkey after seeing the films and dramas, all of which had done in Ruswa's original.

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Umrao jan might not have been shia, but Jhanvi Kapoor, the girl who slit her wrist in front of Amitabh Bachan's house sounds like one. Atleast her mother's name suggests it. She was on BBC claiming they are muslims and that her daughter had been ditched by Abhishek blah blah. Her name was Shahina rizvi. What's with indian shias and bollywood anyway???

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All sorts of know it alls have been spouting cliches here without having the foggiest about Urdu Literature, the era of Wajid Ali Shah's Oudh, the historic-social contexts of Hadi Ruswa's novel.

From my mother's side, I come from exactly the part of the world that has harbored the story of Umrao Jaan, from my father's world, not too far away.

And I know enough of both the history of Oudh and of Muslim India (and Shia India) and the culture of the day.

However, the points made in my posts were more to do with the world of exploitation and injustice than to the person of the real or fictional Umrao Jaan.

What's with indian shias and bollywood anyway???

Nothing worthy of note, as far as I am aware. Whether Indian or non-Indian, Muslims the world over are suffering the consequences of having forsaken the path of the Ahlul Bayt.

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Nothing worthy of note, as far as I am aware. Whether Indian or non-Indian, Muslims the world over are suffering the consequences of having forsaken the path of the Ahlul Bayt.

I personally have observed that indian muslims and shias in particular have shown an unusual level of tolerance/interest toward Bollywood. I have yet to hear any indian alim rail against indian movies and why they should be avoided. Not that I'm an expert in majalis but I've yet to hear a clear cut message from our mimbar regarding the filth that's consumed so dearly in our households..

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