Narjis Al-khatoon

[SpIzo]

(salam)

There is very little information on the Blessed Lady, Syeda Narjis [sa] who brought the Imam of our time [atf] into this world. Thought would start a thread on her [sa]:

Narjis (SA) is the lady of chastity and blessing, whose sweet fragrance of presence even after centuries, gives vigor and vitality to enamored souls of Shi'as of the Household of Vilayat (Guardianship) and Imamate. In the shadow of this shining sun of compliance, hearts calm down and find peace.

http://www.rafed.net/english/woman/main/s1/s1-1/03.html

I've heard and read of people seeking intercession through Syeda Narjis [sa] and their prayers getting fulfilled...

Edited October 23, 2006 by SpIzo

[Zoha]

(salam)

Thanx sis SpIzo may Allah swt reward you for this. A well deserved exposure for a well deserved Lady indeed. :wub: You are right in saying we don’t have enough information on Lady Syeda Nargis [sa] it would be nice to read more about her on this thread.

tc

ws

[SpIzo]

^Thank you for the encouragement sis! May Allah bless you too.

More links on Narjis [sa]:

http://mushkilkosha.no-ip.org/imameasr4.html

http://www.imamreza.net/eng/imamreza.php?id=4869

http://www.imamreza.net/eng/imamreza.php?id=3411

[majafri]

I agree- I think she's really a very azeem personality. I heard about making use of her waseela in a Maulana Sadiq Hasan majlis as follows - to recite something like Ziyarat-e-Ashura as a hadiya to her, and to ask for Imam-e-Zamana to remember us in his duas. Since hearing that, I dedicated not only ziyarat-e-ashura for her, but many other acts of worship (virtually every verse of Quran I recite)!. And alhamdulillah, I can't complain about how comfortable my life and personal affairs are.

[HR]

I was reading about the lives of all the Imams yesterday and stumbled upon this. I didn't know Nargis Khatoon (as) was the grand daughter of Emperor of Rum and Simon, (disciple of Jesus as) was her ancestor. She was a christian as well. Then while on a mission to a muslim land she was captured and was about to be sold but Imam Naqi (as) had already sent someone with 220 dinars and a letter in Rum language to buy her. She kept rejecting different buyers until that man reached with the letter. At that time she whole heartedly agreed to go with that man cuz she had a dream telling her that she would get married to Imam Askeri (as).

Wicked stuff

http://al-islam.org/kaaba14/14.htm

[SpIzo]

Thank you for the summary, HR! :D

Bro majafri, shukran for sharing your story. Truly, we have not realized this great lady [sa]'s true worth! Insha'Allah, through her wasila, we strive to serve her blessed son, may Allah hasten his reappearance.

[sarajlici]

Thank you for the summary, HR! :D

Bro majafri, shukran for sharing your story. Truly, we have not realized this great lady [sa]'s true worth! Insha'Allah, through her wasila, we strive to serve her blessed son, may Allah hasten his reappearance.

(salam)

Older sources say that Imam Zaman (atf) mother (ra) was a nubian woman. I will check my sources and get back to this topic.

ws

[majafri]

Ghaybah Nu'mani has several references to the mother of Al-Qaim(AS) being a black slave girl.

(salam)

Older sources say that Imam Zaman (atf) mother (ra) was a nubian woman. I will check my sources and get back to this topic.

ws

[Guest SayedM'sSister]

Salam

^ yep and scholars are leaning more toward that theory now.

wasalam.

[Yousif]

salam

thats what most traditions say ^ but many refuse to believe that and insist that al qaim is and shud be the son of a princess..

[rahat]

Salaam,

Bihar Ul Anwar, Volume 51, has something like 100 traditions as showing her from Europe.

However, I think that Imam Ali Ridha's mother was African, as was Prophet Ismails mother - theres no disgrace in it at all, race does not matter.

-

rahat

[Ali Mahdi]

(salam)

(bismillah)

Just as an aside, by "Rum" Arabs mean modern-day Greece, not Rome.

The name comes comes from when the Arabs first came into contact with the Byzantine Greeks and they called themselves Romans as they were part of the Eastern Roman Empire.

[kadhim]

Salaam,

Bihar Ul Anwar, Volume 51, has something like 100 traditions as showing her from Europe.

However, I think that Imam Ali Ridha's mother was African, as was Prophet Ismails mother - theres no disgrace in it at all, race does not matter.

-

rahat

Nu'mani completed kitab al-ghayba a few years after the greater occultation began, around 950 CE.

Biharul anwar came over 500 years later. Where did Majlisi get these hundreds of accounts of a Roman princess?

Wouldn't it be such beautiful poetic justice for the earlier account to be true? For the savior of humanity, the one to end oppression on the earth to receive half his genetic heritage from the most oppressed race on the face of the earth? And what a beautiful test for the racists in our community (and oh, are they ever there!) to deal with. What magnificent poetry. Subhanallah. Wouldn't it be beautiful?

[kadhim]

(salam)

(bismillah)

Just as an aside, by "Rum" Arabs mean modern-day Greece, not Rome.

The name comes comes from when the Arabs first came into contact with the Byzantine Greeks and they called themselves Romans as they were part of the Eastern Roman Empire.

Well, more like Turkey. But yes, they were Greek speaking.

[kadhim]

Salam

^ yep and scholars are leaning more toward that theory now.

wasalam.

Sorry. You mean leaning toward the theory of the Imam's mother being a Nubian slave?

[rahat]

Salaam,

Which scholars say this? I have never heard a thing from a scholar, only on the internet.

Furthermore, Allamah Majlisi's "Bihar Ul Anwar" is regarded as one of the primary collections of Shia hadith.

I am fine if she is one race or another race, however the evidence from our scholars points to her being of European descent. Its not a matter of poetic justice or whathaveyou - just factual correctness.

-

rahat

[kadhim]

Salaam,

Which scholars say this? I have never heard a thing from a scholar, only on the internet.

Furthermore, Allamah Majlisi's "Bihar Ul Anwar" is regarded as one of the primary collections of Shia hadith.

I am fine if she is one race or another race, however the evidence from our scholars points to her being of European descent. Its not a matter of poetic justice or whathaveyou - just factual correctness.

-

rahat

Well, Bihar is more of a secondary source; it was only collected 500 years ago. Nu'mani on the surface would seem to have much more credibility writing 15 years into the ghaybah al-kubra than Majlisi writing 600 years into the ghaybah.

It would be interesting to see what Kulayni, whose al-Kafi apparently has a book on the ghaybah and the 12th imam, has to say. But this is not the first time I have been told that the earliest sources contridict Majlisi on this.

[rahat]

Salaam,

I do not dispute that that collection of hadith is older, however, age of a narration is not a criteria for authenticity in the Shia system. A newer book may have more correct hadith than an older book, or vice versa. The criteria that distinguishes is the chain of narration.

Also, most hawzahs view Bihar Ul Anwar as a major collection of hadith.

-

rahat

[kadhim]

I think most of them consider Nu'mani's kitab al-ghaybah as a major source on al-Mehdi, too, no?

I would have to see about other early sources as well, but if it is true that all/most of the early sources say al-Mahdi's mother was African, and then 500 years later an Aryan scholar comes along and says, no, she was a (presumably white) European princess, then this would be a bit suspicious, no?

This issue is one that I have had bookmarked for further research for some time now.

[misbah 2004]

Allamah Majlisi (ra) has included MANY traditions from Kitab al Ghaybah by Numani (ra). So if you find some tradition in Kitab al Ghaybah, you will more often than not find it in Bihar too. At least, that's my personal experience.

I haven't read all the traditions describing his mother's lineage but from what I have she is described as a princess, daughter of Yashua, the son of the Caesar of Rome and her lineage goes back to Shamun, the successor of Jesus (as).

I don't see why people are so hung-up on this issue (of her race). I never saw it as something worth paying so much attention to.

EDIT-

I looked up the traditions in Kitab al Ghaybah by Numani (ra) (6 in all). Only one tradition from Imam Baqir (as) talks about the Qaim (atfs)'s mother being a "black bondmaid". The "black" was in brackets in the English translation and there was a footnote mentioning that it has not been proved that his mother was black. Anyways I checked the Arabic and it clearly says that his mother was ÓæÏÇÁ which means a black woman. But this is just ONE tradition. The rest just mentioned her being a "bondmaid".

In Bihar, Allamah Majlisi (ra) has not included a single tradition about his mother from Ghaybah by Numani. The one that I mentioned above (princess, daughter of Yashua, the son of the Caesar of Rome) has been taken from Kitab al ghaybah by Sheikh Tusi (ra)

In short, the claim that his mother was black cannot really be substantiated from Ghaybah by Numani considering that from 6 traditions only one mentions her being black.

Edited January 27, 2007 by Whizbee

[kadhim]

The one that I mentioned above (princess, daughter of Yashua, the son of the Caesar of Rome) has been taken from Kitab al ghaybah by Sheikh Tusi

OK. So the claim that his mother was a Byzantine princess has similar ancestry as well. At-Tusi was 4th c. A.H., too, right? Similar time as the early ulama of the Shia such as al-Kulayni, as-Saduq, al-Mufid?

I don't see why people are so hung-up on this issue (of her race). I never saw it as something worth paying so much attention to.

In short, the claim that his mother was black cannot really be substantiated from Ghaybah by Numani considering that from 6 traditions only one mentions her being black.

OK. Well, myself, it's just to be prepared. If it's possible that Imam Mehdi's mother was Nubian, then we should be aware of that, so that if a black Mehdi appears, it should not be too surprising. On the other hand, if we are only aware of the European princess narrations, then we would not be as prepared.

Now of course, Imam Mehdi should be expected to be at least mulatto anyway, given that Imam al-Rida's mother was African. But it would be much more pronounced if Imam Mehdi's mother was African. Now should it matter either way, ultimately, to one whose religion is sincere? No, other than the fact, like I said, that I would find it to be poetic justice in a way for the savior of humanity to be half-African. Also symmetry in a way, since some readings take Adam to have been dark skinned as well. ("shaped from dark earth") Ultimately it is a matter of waiting and seeing, and recognizing him on his merit.

Edited January 28, 2007 by kadhim

[IloveImamHussain]

Now of course, Imam Mehdi should be expected to be at least mulatto anyway

Personally, I don't think this subject is worth discussing.

Imam al-Rida was African.

Never heard of that.

And by the way, Rizvi Syeds are the fairest looking and handsomest people I have come across. And I am not talking about Iran or Iraq, where people are light skinned anyway, but about India where Syeds are generally good-looking compared to the rest of the population. And Rizvi Syeds (descendents of our eightth Imam) are the fairest and handsomest. That is my experience anyway.

[Gypsy]

(salam)

We should not be talking about skin color here. :Hijabi: Black or white, it doesnt really matter. What matters is faith. Lets leave the issue of Imam's mother to the alims. They would have the necessary information.

[kadhim]

Personally, I don't think this subject is worth discussing.

We should not be talking about skin color here. Black or white, it doesnt really matter. What matters is faith. Lets leave the issue of Imam's mother to the alims. They would have the necessary information.

Ideally I would tend to agree, (other than your implication that you have to be an a'lim to think) and I would tend to think myself that it doesn't really matter one way or the other.

Unfortunately, we live in a non-dreamworld ummah where many amongst us are sick with racism. Everyone in the community knows it, but noone really speaks of it. Dirty little secret. And particularly, it seems, it's racism against African people. So these bigoted folks need to confront the possibility Imam Mehdi will look different from what they might imagine, so that they can make work to repair their defective racist brains.

Never heard of that.

And by the way, Rizvi Syeds are the fairest looking and handsomest people I have come across. And I am not talking about Iran or Iraq, where people are light skinned anyway, but about India where Syeds are generally good-looking compared to the rest of the population. And Rizvi Syeds (descendents of our eightth Imam) are the fairest and handsomest. That is my experience anyway.

Correction. Imam Rida's mother was African, not he himself. Well established fact. That is what I meant to post.

Edited January 28, 2007 by kadhim

[Guest yaaliali]

Nice topic we should talk more about her

[misbah 2004]

OK. So the claim that his mother was a Byzantine princess has similar ancestry as well. At-Tusi was 4th c. A.H., too, right? Similar time as the early ulama of the Shia such as al-Kulayni, as-Saduq, al-Mufid?

As I understand it, yes.

OK. Well, myself, it's just to be prepared. If it's possible that Imam Mehdi's mother was Nubian, then we should be aware of that, so that if a black Mehdi appears, it should not be too surprising. On the other hand, if we are only aware of the European princess narrations, then we would not be as prepared.

Now of course, Imam Mehdi should be expected to be at least mulatto anyway, given that Imam al-Rida's mother was African. But it would be much more pronounced if Imam Mehdi's mother was African. Now should it matter either way, ultimately, to one whose religion is sincere? No, other than the fact, like I said, that I would find it to be poetic justice in a way for the savior of humanity to be half-African. Also symmetry in a way, since some readings take Adam to have been dark skinned as well. ("shaped from dark earth") Ultimately it is a matter of waiting and seeing, and recognizing him on his merit.

There are many traditions describing his appearance. Like this one from Bihar al Anwar talks about his color.

The Messenger of Allah (pbuh) said: The Mahdi is a man from my progeny, his color is an Arabic color and his physique is an Israeli physique. On his right cheek there is a mole, seems like a star glittering. He will fill the earth with equity, as it will be full of oppression. The dwellers of the earth and the dwellers of the heavens and the birds in the air will be pleased with his rule.

And Arabic color would be?

Unfortunately, we live in a non-dreamworld ummah where many amongst us are sick with racism. Everyone in the community knows it, but noone really speaks of it. Dirty little secret. And particularly, it seems, it's racism against African people. So these bigoted folks need to confront the possibility Imam Mehdi will look different from what they might imagine, so that they can make work to repair their defective racist brains.

As I said, I never really paid any attention to the color aspect as I found it unnecessary but now I plan to read up a bit on it as what you are saying makes sense.

And by the way, Rizvi Syeds are the fairest looking and handsomest people I have come across. And I am not talking about Iran or Iraq, where people are light skinned anyway, but about India where Syeds are generally good-looking compared to the rest of the population. And Rizvi Syeds (descendents of our eightth Imam) are the fairest and handsomest. That is my experience anyway.

Imam Rida (as) had only one son, the 9th Imam i.e Imam Mohd Taqi (as). If you are a real Rizvi, then you are actually from Imam Taqi (as) and hence Taqvi. The reason we call ourselves Rizvi and not Taqvi is because Imam Rida (as) was the Wali-e-ahd during his time and hence was more famous than his son and so the 9th Imam's descendants took on his name.

[misbah 2004]

I was mistaken. Allamah Majlisi has included Numani's traditions (including the one about his mother being a black bondmaid). Not in the chapter on his mother but in the one about the Qaim's attributes.

Bihar has traditions from various books with differences on the Qaim's color. One says he will be of "reddish color". Another says he will be "tanned".

If you want, I'll post the parts of the traditions describing him and the reference books because the entire traditions are way too lengthy.

[Renaissance_Man]

And by the way, Rizvi Syeds are the fairest looking and handsomest people I have come across. And I am not talking about Iran or Iraq, where people are light skinned anyway, but about India where Syeds are generally good-looking compared to the rest of the population. And Rizvi Syeds (descendents of our eightth Imam) are the fairest and handsomest. That is my experience anyway.

Gotta love desis and their obsession with light skin. I've seen plenty of dark skinned Rizvi sayyids from Pakistan and India and dark sayyids in general. And yes, they were the "pure" najibut turfains.

And Arabic color would be?

Hard to say. Arabs come in all shapes and colors, from European looking to African. My guess is its somewhere in the middle: middle-eastern features with tan skin. That's how I've heard the Prophet (pbuh) described as.

Edited January 28, 2007 by Talib-e-Ilm

[SpIzo]

salam

thats what most traditions say ^ but many refuse to believe that and insist that al qaim is and shud be the son of a princess..

Imam Mahdi [atf] is the son of a slave princess like Imam Zayn al-Abidin [as]. What's wrong in that?

[kadhim]

I was mistaken. Allamah Majlisi has included Numani's traditions (including the one about his mother being a black bondmaid). Not in the chapter on his mother but in the one about the Qaim's attributes.

Bihar has traditions from various books with differences on the Qaim's color. One says he will be of "reddish color". Another says he will be "tanned".

If you want, I'll post the parts of the traditions describing him and the reference books because the entire traditions are way too lengthy.

Sure, that would be great.

[misbah 2004]

Sure, that would be great.

All the traditions have been taken from Bihar, Volume 51.

Ghaybah by Sheikh Tusi.

Ali (as): A man shall come from my progeny in the latter days, he will be white with a touch of red, of a broad abdomen, with legs of ample width, and of high shoulders.

Ghaybah by Sheikh Tusi.

Ali (as): He is a youth with broad shoulders, beautiful face, elegant hair with his hair flowing over his shoulders. The light of his visage surpasses the blackness of his beard and hair.

Ghaybah by Numani.

Ali (as): He is a man of broad forehead, high nose, thick abdomen, and large legs - his right leg bearing a dark mole - and his teeth are distanced from one another.

Ghaybah by Numani.

Abu Jafar (as): He is the one whose pigment has a strike of red, has deep eyes and high eyebrows, is broad between shoulders. There is scurf on his hair and a mark on his face.

Ghaybah by Numani.

Baqir (as): The Patron of the order bears a similarity to Yusuf from a dark bondmaid. Allah will arrange his affair in one night.

Ghaybah by Numani.

Abu Jafar (as): His abdomen is big. His pigment is reddish.

Al Fusul al Muhimma.

[Chain of narrators not mentioned]: He is a young man of broad shoulders, handsome face, beautiful hair which flows over his shoulders, fine looking high nose and broad forehead.

[Rawshni]

I don't see why people are so hung-up on this issue (of her race). I never saw it as something worth paying so much attention to.

(salam)

Despite claiming to being Shia, a lot many folks still attach plenty of importance to race and colour, as well as social status.

You did fabulously to point this out.

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[rahat]

Salaam,

I think anyone in this thread who pursued Imam Mahdi's mothers race as a matter of anything other than fact should realize that our leaders and their family members will have meaning in our lives - but that meaning is based in truth. The truth in who they are, what they did, and so forth.

Look for the truth and you will receive all the answers that Allah intends, inshallah.

-

rahat

[Tru21]

Salaam,

I think anyone in this thread who pursued Imam Mahdi's mothers race as a matter of anything other than fact should realize that our leaders and their family members will have meaning in our lives - but that meaning is based in truth. The truth in who they are, what they did, and so forth.

Look for the truth and you will receive all the answers that Allah intends, inshallah.

-

rahat

As Salaamu Alaikum,

I fully agree with you brother however by understanding the races of our Aimah (as) we can start breaking some of the racist tendencies some of us are inclined towards. As the Indian Sayyid demonstrated through his pride in being a fair skinned Rizvi, a lot of shias are plagued with a racist mindset that's, dare I say, even infected a number of our Ulema. When the Imam (as) reappears insha'Allah will these racists be able to get over the fact that He IS black? Or will they even be able to recognise him in their expectation, or desire for a fair-skinned Imam? The fact is that our Imam will NOT be a white man as they are hoping given that none of his forefathers were. Roman mother or other wise ALL of our Aimah from the time of Imam Jafar As Sadiq (as) were black. All of them came from noble african mothers who will undoubtedly be in the company of Fatimah Zahra (SA) in the akhirah. I cant help but see this issue of race as a test from Allah for those people who cant come to terms with the fact that the fairness of their skin will do nothing for them on the day of judgement. The racial diversity of our Aimah (as) has to be a divinely sent sign for us to get over our racial hang ups.

Wa Salaam Alaikum

[Sayed_Amir]

(salam)

There is very little information on the Blessed Lady, Syeda Narjis [sa] who brought the Imam of our time [atf] into this world. Thought would start a thread on her [sa]:

Narjis (SA) is the lady of chastity and blessing, whose sweet fragrance of presence even after centuries, gives vigor and vitality to enamored souls of Shi'as of the Household of Vilayat (Guardianship) and Imamate. In the shadow of this shining sun of compliance, hearts calm down and find peace.

http://www.rafed.net/english/woman/main/s1/s1-1/03.html

I've heard and read of people seeking intercession through Syeda Narjis [sa] and their prayers getting fulfilled...

(bismillah)

(salam)

There's good information about Blessed Lady, Sayeda Narjis (SA) in the Bihar-ul Anwar vol.51, also known as Book of Occultation (Kitab ul Ghaib). There's lot of hadith and stories and other important information about Imam Al Mahdi (ATFS) and his mother (SA). I highly recommend it.