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In the Name of God بسم الله

Cursing Ayesha........ Isit Right?

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actually a few points where you're wrong

1. Allah (SWT) warned the wives of double punishment for open transgressions (what else is a war against the rightful caliph of her time, even according to sunnis, but a VERY serious transgression)

2. Prophet (pbuh) left this world with his head on the chest of Ali (as) (according to Ali (as) himself)

3. Ali (as) didn't treat Aisha like other women defeated during battle because of his respect for PROPHET (pbuh) (not actually Aisha).

4. she was also reprimanded in Qur'an for conspiring to lie, that too is the words of Allah (SWT)

5. Aisha's age has been refuted by shias and sunnis both. If we look at historical FACT and not just hadith that narrate her supposed age, she was at least 12 years old at the time of marriage, and possibly as old as 18

6. she was disobedient toward Allah (SWT) and Prophet (pbuh) during the lifetime of the Prophet (pbuh), and there is no real evidence that she changed (especially in her attitude toward Ahlul Bayt (as)) even 30 years after the death of the Prophet (pbuh)

and perhaps most important to this topic, most shias do not curse her by name. If we choose to curse by action (which I do), then the innocent of those actions are not affected.

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Laa Hawla Wa Laa Quwwata Illa Billaah

I am very dissapointed at the insults being hurled at Aisha (R.A.). I heard that it was an article of Shi'a belief to curse her but I didnt know if it was true or not and my conversation with Shi'i friends always led me to believe that they didnt curse her. Subhan'Allah, the Prophet (saws) loved this Mother of the Muslims dearly, he left this world in her lap, there are verses in the Quran in which she was exonerated by the very Words of Allah, there are verses in the Quran that were revealed because of questions she asked or situations that arose involving her. It was Allah who revealed in a dream to the Prophet to marry Aisha. Why? Because she having been reared in the school of the Prophet, having tasted of his tarbiyah at the same age many of us start school up until we finish school was to become one of the greatest scholars of this Umma.

A true rapproachment and reconciliation between Sunnis and Shias can never occur as long as Shias believe that Aisha can be cursed. Some sort of ground for shedding dogma must be found. Something along the lines of recognizing that Aisha made a mistake during the fitna but realising why that mistake was made in the context of the situation and that she is still a beloved of Allah and beloved by Ali. I dont know is it possible for each side to understand where the other is coming from?

Is it correct to say that none of those who the Shia consider Ma3soom ever cursed her? It seems instead that some Scholars of the Shia have made this a point of dogma and these Scholars of course are not Ma3soom. Also what did Ayatollah Khomenie say about this issue? I know he said some positive things about Umar and Abu Bakr (rahumaa).

I dont think Ayatollah Khomenei would say any good about the two noble companions otherwise the followers of Khomenei will be very angry to hear that.

W.Salaam

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Bro Ibn Muljim (LA) had no connection to the Prophet (Saww). I fear this part that i might err so i dont curse her.

Right.. but I was pointing out the flaw in the logic that since Hadrat Ali(as) didn't curse someone, we shouldn't do it as well :).. there are other factors involved when commenting on this issue.. (try praying for the ppl of taif like the Prophet[saww] did).. as for Aisha.. she could have done better :S

Affiliation has nothing to do with me liking or disliking a character.. I like Abdullah bin AbuBakr and the son of Yazid because they were good people and I don't like Aisha because she inflicted misery upon the Prophet(saww) and the Ahlul Bait(as).. wassalaamun alaikum :)

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Affiliation has nothing to do with me liking or disliking a character.. I like Abdullah bin AbuBakr and the son of Yazid because they were good people and I don't like Aisha because she inflicted misery upon the Prophet(saww) and the Ahlul Bait(as).. wassalaamun alaikum :)

Bro i dont expect you to like her. I am just saying its a very thin line when it comes to cursing her so lets avoid it.

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When you curse her flaws do you praise any of the good things she did or only negative? Also again if Prophet(pbuh) died in Ali(ra) lap why was he(pbuh) at Aishia(ra) house and Fatima's(ra)

If your brother is dying, would you NOT go to the house of his wife? no offense but that is a silly argument, brother.

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Better yet first determine whether it was Ayesha's house, or Prophets house.

Did Prophet go to Ayesha's house or his own house?

Where did the prophet spent the previous day? Was it in the same house or some other house? If another house then why did prophet move here, or if he was in the same house during the last few days of his life, what happend to the rule he established himself of spending a day in each wife's room (hujra) ??

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good points, brother. I honestly hadn't given this much thought. thanks for pointing it out.

but that said, according to sunni hadith he (pbuh) died in the house he shared with aisha, and on what basis is THAT reason why Prophet (pbuh) could NOT have died as Ali (as) said.

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I dont think Ayatollah Khomenei would say any good about the two noble companions otherwise the followers of Khomenei will be very angry to hear that.

W.Salaam

Salaam actually he did in the one book that I have read by him in which Algar the translator notes,

“The attribution of errors to Abu Bakr and ‘Umar and deviations to ‘Uthman is a part of Shi’i belief and is entirely to be expected in this context. Worthy of note, however, is the statement here that Abu Bakr and ‘Umar adhered to the example of the Prophet in their personal lives. It would be difficult to find such a positive evaluation in the utterances of a leading Shi’i scholar before Imam Khomeini.” (Islam and Revolution I, p.155, n.53)

Aliya these are some of the Sunni sources on the Prophet passing away in the arms of Aisha,

Narrated Ibn Abu Mulaika:

‘Aisha said, “The Prophet died in my house on the day of my turn while he was leaning on my chest closer to my neck, and Allah made my saliva mix with his Saliva.” ‘Aisha added, “‘AbdurRahman came with a Siwak and the Prophet was too weak to use it so I took it, chewed it and then (gave it to him and he) cleaned his teeth with it.”

Bukhari,Volume 5, Book 59, Number 722:

Narrated Aisha:

‘Abdur-Rahman bin Abu Bakr entered upon the Prophet while I was supporting the Prophet on my chest. ‘AbdurRahman had a fresh Siwak then and he was cleaning his teeth with it. Allah’s Apostle looked at it, so I took the Siwak, cut it (chewed it with my teeth), shook it and made it soft (with water), and then gave it to the Prophet who cleaned his teeth with it. I had never seen Allah’s Apostle cleaning his teeth in a better way. After finishing the brushing of his teeth, he lifted his hand or his finger and said thrice, “O Allah! Let me be with the highest companions,” and then died. ‘Aisha used to say, “He died while his head was resting between my chest and chin.”

Bukhari,Volume 6, Book 60, Number 93:

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Why not chose another house then the house of this so-called even woman. Prophet(pbuh) had other wives some that shia say were so great in character right? Why did he choice house of his disrespectful wife ? Also if was her house then he would be more likely lying on his wive's lap.

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says who??? sunni hadith are not proof for shias #1. #2, why do you cling so tightly, without even admitting the possibility that Imam Ali (as) (the GREATEST SADIQ) told the truth when he said Prophet (pbuh) passed away with his head on Imam's (as) chest?

plus, we see MANY examples of Aisha's manipulation, fabrication, etc., where is similar example or proof that Imam Ali (as) did the same???

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Sometimes, I wonder that Prophet (pbuh) was poisoned by Aisha

Sahih Bukhari, Volume 5, Book 59, Number 735.

Narrated 'Aisha:

We poured medicine in one side of the Prophet's mouth during his illness and he started pointing to us, meaning to say, "Don't pour medicine in my mouth." We said, "(He says so) because a patient dislikes medicines." When he improved and felt a little better, he said, "Didn't I forbid you to pour medicine in my mouth ?" We said, " ( We thought it was because of) the dislike, patients have for medicines. He said, "Let everyone present in the house be given medicine by pouring it in his mouth while I am looking at him, except 'Abbas as he has not witnessed you (doing the same to me)."

Why did the Prophet (pbuh) did not trust Aisha when she was giving medicine to him and why did he say

"Let everyone present in the house be given medicine by pouring it in his mouth while I am looking at him" ?

If it was really medicine and not poison, why would the Prophet (pbuh) avoid it and order Aisha to take it also?

Moreover is it not whatever the Prophet (pbuh) says, says by an order from Allah, so why did Aisha forcefully gave that medicine to the Prophet (pbuh) without herself taking it?

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says who??? sunni hadith are not proof for shias #1. #2,
I kindly ask do you read your own posts sister? Of course I dont expect you to accept Sunni hadith as proof for yourself, but you do say the following in an above post,
but that said, according to sunni hadith he died in the house he shared with aisha, and on what basis is THAT reason why Prophet could NOT have died as Ali said.
If your brother is dying, would you NOT go to the house of his wife? no offense but that is a silly argument, brother.
It seems like what you were implying is that "maybe" he (pbuh) only died in Aisha(ra) house according to Sunni hadith and that that is not proof that he died on her chest, leaving room for interpretation that he might have died on Ali's chest; that is the reason why I posted the above Sunni hadith to show you not only did he die in her house but he died on her chest.
...Aisha said, “The Prophet died in my house on the day of my turn while he was leaning on my chest closer to my neck, and Allah made my saliva mix with his Saliva.”
Abdur-Rahman bin Abu Bakr entered upon the Prophet while I was supporting the Prophet on my chest. ‘AbdurRahman had a fresh Siwak then and he was cleaning his teeth with it. Allah’s Apostle looked at it, so I took the Siwak, cut it (chewed it with my teeth), shook it and made it soft (with water), and then gave it to the Prophet who cleaned his teeth with it. I had never seen Allah’s Apostle cleaning his teeth in a better way. After finishing the brushing of his teeth, he lifted his hand or his finger and said thrice, “O Allah! Let me be with the highest companions,” and then died. ‘Aisha used to say, “He died while his head was resting between my chest and chin.”
To me this above hadith is unbelievably comforting and beautiful, it shows the depth of the Prophets humanity, his relationship with Allah, and the love between him and Aisha.

Furthermore, I am not here to change ones belief. But to me the concept of cursing a Mumina is beyond belief. One who slanders in such a way is liable in Islamic law to being whipped with 40 lashes. We hear that oh but Allah destroyed the wives of Nabi Lut and Nuh, but one doesnt seem to hear that these wives were clearly not "Believers"! Those wives werent part of their house as Allah says, kinship is not based on blood alone it is based on Iman,

And Noah called upon his Lord, and said: "O my Lord! surely my son is of my family! and Thy promise is true, and Thou art the justest of Judges!" He said: "O Noah! He is not of thy family: For his conduct is unrighteous. So ask not of Me that of which thou hast no knowledge! I give thee counsel, lest thou act like the ignorant!" Noah said: "O my Lord! I do seek refuge with Thee, lest I ask Thee for that of which I have no knowledge. And unless thou forgive me and have Mercy on me, I should indeed be lost!"

My greater concern was in my original post,

A true rapproachment and reconciliation between Sunnis and Shias can never occur as long as Shias believe that Aisha can be cursed. Some sort of ground for shedding dogma must be found. Something along the lines of recognizing that Aisha made a mistake during the fitna but realising why that mistake was made in the context of the situation and that she is still a beloved of Allah and beloved by Ali. I dont know is it possible for each side to understand where the other is coming from?

Is it correct to say that none of those who the Shia consider Ma3soom ever cursed her? It seems instead that some Scholars of the Shia have made this a point of dogma and these Scholars of course are not Ma3soom. Also what did Ayatollah Khomenie say about this issue? I know he said some positive things about Umar and Abu Bakr (rahumaa).

Is there any answer to some of these questions? Or is there any comments? I think the real change has to come from the scholars and leaders of each group.

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(salam) bros nd sistaz,

basically i have been one of those people to curse the evil ayesha right to the max, but until yesterday i had no idea what i was doing.

I was having a online discussion with someone, and when i told my dad Zakir Tanveer-Ul hassan, he told me that imam ali didnt say anything to ayesha or curse her in the battlefield, he just sent her home... so he goes if imam ali didnt do it wot gives you the right 2? in a way it is the truth as ayesha was the prophets wife :wacko:

could somneone please give me an answa because im confuzzleddd lol

w/salam

You should continue doing it as this is the shia belief.

If you stop then you have deviated from the shia so please dont deviate.

Curse like youve never cursed before.

Infact hold an event in which everyone sits and they each take turns cursing.

If you dont do this you are not a true shia!

Wassalaam

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Shia stories are not proof to Sunni's either . But if both sides can agree that he stayed at Aisha(ra) house when sick then it is safe to assume she was the one taking care of him most of the time. Like you said if my brother was dying I would go to house but more than likely his wife would be one the one taking care of him 90% of time.

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according to shia sources:

Bihar v.6:

'Once, the Prophet (S) summoned Ali, Fatima, Al-Hassan and Al-Hussain (A) and ordered everyone present in the house to leave. He then ordered Umme Salama to stand at the door so no one could come near it.

more can be found http://www.al-islam.org/gracious/45.htm

also, if someone could reply to post #77 :)

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mohib, who said Abu Talib (ra) wasn't Muslim? here http://www.dartabligh.org/books/audio/Ramadhan06.asp is a lecture by sayed Nakshawani about Abu Talib (scroll down to the second session)

Ofcourse he was muslim, momin, muttaqi.

I was just being sarcastic. I don't believe for a second that Hz Abu Talib was not a muslim.

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sorry, I didn't get the sarcasm (thought it odd that a shia would be saying such a thing, but I'm sick and sarcasm has to be crystal clear and jumping off the screen to make itself clear to my brain the last couple days.)

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Unfortunately SOME people are all too happy to jump on anything!

Once a brother told me something quite intereting: He told me if Allah (swt) did not condemn Abu Lahab the uncle of the Prophet (as) clearly and by name in the Quor'an, then (some) Shia would be swearing that he died as Muslim and the verse was not revealed about him. And if Allah (swt) did not clear Aisha (ra) in the Quor'an that she was innocent of what was attributed to her, then (some) Shia would be jumping and swearing that she did commit that which was attributed to her !! Indeed, how true this is. The irony is that, despite the clear verse, some Shia do still insist that Aisha (ra) did commit that which was attributed to her!

Shia forget that it was Aisha (ra) who reported some of the most beautiful and telling Hadiths of the Prophet (as) on his Progeny.

Sahih al-Bukhari Hadith: 4.819: Narrated ‘Aisha: The Messenger of Allah said to Fatimah (who was crying at her father’s deathbed): “Are you not satisfied that you are the chief of all the ladies of Paradise or the chief of all the believing women?”

Sahih-e-Muslim - Book 031, Number 5955: ‘A’isha reported that Allah’s Apostle (may peace be upon him) went out one norning wearing a striped cloak of the black camel’s hair that there came Hasan b. ‘Ali. He wrapped him under it, then came Husain and he wrapped him under it along with the other one (Hasan). Then came Fatima and he took her under it, then came ‘Ali and he also took him under it and then said: Allah only desires to take away any uncleanliness from you, O people of the household, and purify you (thorough purifying)

Aisha (ra) has always narrated from the Prophet (as) TRUTHFULLY even to the extent of 'exposing' to us her own 'mistakes' when she could have just kept quiet about it and not revealed it to others. Aisha (ra) never claimed she was infallable, or that she has some Devine authority of power... she presented herslef to us just like the way she really was: a human being lady but honered of being married to the Best creation of Allah. She had the honour of serving him, travelling with him (as), eating with him (as), eating from his hand (as) and him eating from her hand (ra), sharing his bed (as), being there for him (as) on his bedside.... and the Prophet (as) accepted Um al-Mu'mineen Aisha (ra) just the way Allah (swt) chooses her for his Messenger, and as is narrated from different sources, the Prophet (as) profoundly loved Aisha (ra), probably because she was natural, even in her jealousy, she loved the Prophet (as) enormously and he (as) knew it and could feel it. That is why, he (as) stood by Aisha (ra) when she was accused in her honour, and he feld so saddened by it and he was (as) the first person to have rejoiced when the verses came down from the Heavens declaring her innocence in the most direct and eloquent manner. This made his bond to Aisha (ra) even stronger.

May Allah (swt) send his Rahma and Ridaa on our Mother (ra).

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first of all, you're comparing apples and oranges. Abu Lahab (LA) was an open enemy to islam (unlike Abu Talib (ra) who never did ANYTHING to harm Islam or the Prophet (pbuh), and in fact PROTECTED Prophet (pbuh) in the early days of Islam until his death, the same year as Bibi Khadija (as))

As for Aisha, no one is accusing her of adultery (the charge she was accused of and cleared of in Qur'an). However, innocence in one case does NOT guarantee innocence from ALL sin or transgrssion for the rest of her life.

As for her "position" as such a beloved wife... any source that isn't narrated by her or her supporters? Because, as has been pointed out time and again Prophet (pbuh) married for MANY reasons (see here, in the sceond session for the lecture on 2nd October http://www.dartabligh.org/books/audio/Ramadhan06.asp ) Sayed Nakshawani does a very thorough job of analysing the reasons for Prophet's (pbuh) marriages, and on some issues that surround Aisha.

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salam

i got it from a clip , debate id upload it here but ur limit is 2 mb and the clip is 53mb any ideas on how to upload it ?

he asks the man he is debating to say that May Allah curse and put in hell fire who ever accuses or implies that aiysha was an adulterer

so when the man says it , he tells him congratulations you have jus cursed your 12 great companions including hassaaan ibn thabeth

he refers to hadith il ithm ? esm? athm ? not really sure hes iraqi cant make out his arabic well

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salam

my friend , there are sunni sources attributing her to what the quran cleared her from ... i dont understand the irony

ASSUMING there are, does it make it Ok for some Shia to do it?

The link you providede gives references to some invididuals who did that DURING the time of the Prophet (as) [and there, there was no Sunni or Shia!], and the got flogged for it. Nowadays, there are NO Sunnis who even think about it.

I have been in different Shia forums and I have heard the accusation many many times. Even on this forum someone made the accusation last time by saying that she was "impure", clearly implying that.

As I said, it was the Mercy of Allah (swt) that she got cleared of any wrong doing, otherwise many bad mouthing would have propagated like fire... but sadly some sick hearts can't get over it!

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salam

i in no way , accused her astagfirAllah , but was simply stating what was implied

and as far as i understood , it was those who sunnis consider dear that implied or accused her , thats wat i meant

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first of all, you're comparing apples and oranges. Abu Lahab (LA) was an open enemy to islam (unlike Abu Talib (ra) who never did ANYTHING to harm Islam or the Prophet (pbuh), and in fact PROTECTED Prophet (pbuh) in the early days of Islam until his death, the same year as Bibi Khadija (as))

As for Aisha, no one is accusing her of adultery (the charge she was accused of and cleared of in Qur'an). However, innocence in one case does NOT guarantee innocence from ALL sin or transgrssion for the rest of her life.

As for her "position" as such a beloved wife... any source that isn't narrated by her or her supporters? Because, as has been pointed out time and again Prophet (pbuh) married for MANY reasons (see here, in the sceond session for the lecture on 2nd October http://www.dartabligh.org/books/audio/Ramadhan06.asp ) Sayed Nakshawani does a very thorough job of analysing the reasons for Prophet's (pbuh) marriages, and on some issues that surround Aisha.

When I have time I will bring you reference of the virtues of Aisha (ra) narrators other than her. The PROBLEM is, you will always come up with "this is one of her supporters", because to you, whoever did not side with Ali (ra) is AUTOMATICALLY against him and AUTOMATICALLY on the side of Aisha (ra). When you use such criteria, you will find yourself in a position where your judgement is impared by rejecting whole narrations on the basis of a false start.

For now, let me give you this one narration that SHOULD SUFFICE for those with an open heart and mind. The speaker is the blessed Ammar Ibn Yasir (ra), a supporter of Ali (ra).

Narrated Abu Wail:

When 'Ali sent 'Ammar and Al-Hasan to (the people of) Kufa to urge them to fight, 'Ammar addressed them saying, "I know that she (i.e. 'Aisha) is the wife of the Prophet in this world and in the Hereafter (world to come), but Allah has put you to test, whether you will follow Him (i.e. Allah) or her." [Bukhari 5.116]

I

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Salam Alaikum

For now, let me give you this one narration that SHOULD SUFFICE for those with an open heart and mind. The speaker is the blessed Ammar Ibn Yasir , a supporter of Ali .

Narrated Abu Wail:

When 'Ali sent 'Ammar and Al-Hasan to (the people of) Kufa to urge them to fight, 'Ammar addressed them saying, "I know that she (i.e. 'Aisha) is the wife of the Prophet in this world and in the Hereafter (world to come), but Allah has put you to test, whether you will follow Him (i.e. Allah) or her." [bukhari 5.116]

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Salam Alaikum

You highlighted the wrong part brother. Ammar is using diplomacy to invite people to fight for Imam Ali [a]. Nobody disputes that she was the wife of the Prophet . Many people would have been reluctant to fight against Aishah, and Ammar takes this into account when speaking to them. However, read the words "WHETHER YOU WILL FOLLOW HIM (I.E. Allah) OR HER."

Quite clearly, Ammar [r] is saying that Imam Ali [a] represents Allah, and Aishah represents the side opposing Allah. The very fact that he is urging people to fight and kill people in Aishah's army completely negates anything between the lines that you are trying to draw out.

In other words, you are saying that Ammar (ra) was a deceiver and a liar! How daring!!

And I did not highlight the 'wrong' part. There is no wrong part, it is a Hadith and BOTH parts are right, except that some people with sick hearts see one part and choose to not see the other part. I highlighted the part that was relevent to this threat and relating to Aisha (ra).

Ammar (ra) was telling people, "Aisha (ra) is the wife of our Prophet (as) in this life and the hearafter, but on this particular occasion Ali (ra) is right and she (ra) has used her judgement and she is wrong, so choose Ali (ra)".

Further evidence that there were no misgivings against Aisha (ra) was that after that unfortunate battle, it was Ali (ra) who went personally to meet and greet Aisha (ra) to make sure she (ra) received the best possible treatment worthy of her unique distinguished position. It was him (ra) who prepared her ride and provided her with escort so that she reached Madina well and safe. If Ali (ra) thought she (ra) was being deliberately wicked, he would not have given her all that treatment, and Ammar (ra) is not a liar nor a deceiver as YOU seem to believe. Ammar (ra) is from the school of the Prophet (ra) he doesn't lie nor deceive other fellow Muslims. Ammar (ra) said the truth, and Allah (swt) knows that he said the truth.... but sick-hearted and sick-minded people can't see the truth and can only see what their wicked and devious desires and nafs tell them.... people who find it difficult to say (ra) after the name of the wife of the Prophet (as) and Umm-al-Mu'mineen! How sad!!!

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Don't put words into mouth.

Ammar was out looking for people to fight against Aishah. This very fact tells everything. He tried to speak to Aishah to avoid war, but Aishah wasn't interested. She was only interested in fighting Ali [a].

The only person I am accusing of deceiving or lying is Aishah, all due respect to her.

As for your pathetic excuse of an explanation of what Ammar said:

Ammar was telling people, "Aisha is the wife of our Prophet in this life and the hearafter, but on this particular occasion Ali is right and she has used her judgement and she is wrong, so choose Ali ".
Ammar was telling people that Aishah is the wife of the Prophet and she is respected as such, but it doesn't give her blanket immunity and she is completely wrong here and she is the baghi, the khariji and the fitna-mongerer, so please join up in the army to fight against her.

Its not just about "choosing Ali" as you put it, Ammar is urging people to take up arms against Aishah.

And I did not highlight the 'wrong' part. There is no wrong part, it is a Hadith and BOTH parts are right, except that some people with sick hearts see one part and choose to not see the other part. I highlighted the part that was relevent to this threat and relating to Aisha

Its fairly obvious who is the one with the "sick heart" who sees only one part.

Further evidence that there were no misgivings against Aisha was that after that unfortunate battle, it was Ali who went personally to meet and greet Aisha to make sure she received the best possible treatment worthy of her unique distinguished position. It was him who prepared her ride and provided her with escort so that she reached Madina well and safe. If Ali thought she was being deliberately wicked, he would not have given her all that treatment,

The rosy picture that Sunnis paint about the nasty war ignited by Aishah is ludicrous.

Many Muslims were killed, wives widowed, children orphaned, but because Imam Ali [a] treated Aishah with respect for the fact that she was the Prophet's wife, everything was all peaches and roses.

She and her army were pardoned and let free for this world, the punishment in the akhirah for the loss of so many lives and the prelude to the subsequent civil wars will be waiting, insha'Allah.

Edited by Abbas
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