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AlQaadim

What is your opinion on 'irfaan' (gnosis)

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bismillah  

(salam)

I fee this is a very interesting topic.

Did you know that Imam Khomeini was a great Aarif??

One of the biggest Arif still alive is Ayatullah Samahat Sheikh Behjat.

What you all think??

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Bismillah wha Salam!

ok.....since sis. confusus was the first to come out of the closet......ill be the second!  :D  :D

Any hate mails i re-direct to sis. confusus :P :D :D

*i just hope she wont be killing me now!*   ;)  :P  :D

Edited By Ehsan on 1035308580

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786-110

(salam)

Irfaan and Sufism there is no difference, an Irfaani is Shi'i and a Sufi is Sunni. They both believe we are one with God, we have discussed this issue earlier and it became an all out war. I don't wish to offend anyone but the truth must be told, my friend asked Sayyid Seestani on www.najf.org

This is his emails

> >From: "Imam Ali \(a.s.\) Foundation"

> >To:

> >Subject: RE: Question from Hussein

> >Date: Tue, 25 Jun 2002 19:23:51 +0100

> >

> >Irfan is the centre point of Sufism. > >

> >Wasalaam

> >

> >-----Original Message-----

> >From: (sorry confidential)@hotmail.com [mailto:(sorry confidential)@hotmail.com]

> >Sent: Friday, April 26, 2002 8:48 AM

> >To:

> >Subject: Question from Hussein

> >

> >

> >Salam Alaykom,

> > I wanted to ask whether "irfan" is the same as sufism and if it

> >falls within the realms of Islam. Thank you

and the second email

>From: "Imam Ali \(a.s.\) Foundation"

>To: "'Hussein"  

>Subject: RE: Question from Hussein

>Date: Tue, 22 Oct 2002 15:12:57 +0100

>

>Assalaamu Alaikum

>

>Any spiritual advice that is not taken from AhlulBayt (as) is misleading.

>

>Wasalaam

>

>

>

> -----Original Message-----

> From: Hussein  [mailto:(sorry confidential)@hotmail.com]

> Sent: Sunday, August 18, 2002 5:28 AM

> To:

> Subject: RE: Question from Hussein

>

>

> Salam Alaykom,

>

> Ok i understand what it is now, but is it recommended

>that we take spiritual advice from people who have nothing to do with

>AhlulBayt(a.s.) and the Prophet Muhammed(saws), but take their methods from

>their own minds which have been influenced by Greek philosophy such as Plato

>and Aristotle????

For all those who do taqleed of Sayyid Seestani NB. this is sufficient.

Wassalaam

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Guest Pearlsinvinegar

Courtesy of a friend:

Sufism is a damned way, cursed on the tongue of every Imam.  It evolved, as a result of being damned by the Imams into what has become known as Irfan.

The Imams called the Sufis, “The most wretched of Allah’s creations”, and warned people to be cautious of their exterior façade of supposed asceticism and humbleness.

The question is ‘do we need Sufism’? Do we need their ways to help us achieve or attain a greater level of spirituality?

If you answered YES to the above then you have failed the two things, which we were commanded to follow, The Quran and the Etrat, the AHLUL BAYT.  Is not the legacy of their teachings enough that we need to turn to IBN ARABI, and IBN SINA, which have become the focal point of discussion when ‘searching’ for Allah (swt)?.  And of all people, Ibn Arabi, who had the most extreme and most twisted version of Sufism, pantheism.

No doubt that we are in need of a guide to lead us onto the road of spirituality, and Allah (swt) has not failed us there, for he gave us the best of Guides, Prophet Mohammad and His Holy Progeny.

Imam Ali has said:

"Allah ! I do not worship You because I am afraid of Your Hell or because I hope for Your Paradise. I worship You because I have found You worthy of being worshipped."

The Imam (as) whom they attributed their ‘ways’ to, is free of their misguidance, for in the above example used in that link the Imam in no place suggests, as they do, that the veil HAD been removed from before the Almighty and its Just HIM (swt) and HIM (as), in every sense of the word. The Imam (as) in fact makes this clear in another hadeeth where he says,

“Even IF the veil is removed, it would not increase me in certitude”.

And to attain that certitude, you first need to look at the Unity of Allah, ONENESS, free of all, as the hadith says, “Allah (swt) is free (khulw) of His creations, and His creations are free (khulw) of him”, not swim in murky waters trying to achieve UNITY, and fuse with the Almighty, which is the ultimate goal of the sufis.  

AHLUL BAYT AND THEIR STANCE ON SUFISM

Prophet Mohammad (sawa) in his long list of recommendations to Abu Dhar al-Ghafari said:

“O Abu Dhar, there will come a time, when a group of people will wear wool during their summer and their winter, believing that this gives them superiority over others. The Angels of the Heavens and the Earth curse them.  (al-Qummi, Safinat al-Bihar Vol2 Page58)

NB: wearing of wool is synonymous with Sufism, as Suf in Arabic means wool and Sufis were known for their wearing of wool as a form of asceticism.  

IMAM AS-SADIQ (AS)

Sufism really began to develop during the Imamat of asSadiq (as), so much so that it was developing into a social status, in fact a ‘philosophical school of thought’ in its own right, hence the strong stance taken by Imam asSadiq against these innovators.

It is narrated that Imam asSadiq (as) when asked about a people who appeared in his time, called Sufis.   He said:

“They are our ENEMIES, whomever inclines towards them is of them and he will be gathered with them (on the Day of Judgment).  And there will be a people who will claim that they love us, yet they incline towards them (the Sufis), and they imitate them and entitle themselves with their (the Sufis) titles and declarations.

Verily! Whoever inclines towards them is not of us (Ahlul Bayt) and I am free (baree’e) from him, and whoever treats them with contempt and rebuts them, is like one who made jihad against the infidels with the Messenger of Allah (pbuh). (ibid)

And when the Imam (as) was asked about one of the prevalent Imams of Sufism, the Imam characterized his madhab as CORRUPTED.

Narrated Imam Al-Askari (as) who said:

“Imam as-Sadiq (as) was asked about the position of (Abu Hisham al-Kufi).  The Imam (as) said: Indeed his doctrine is corrupted, and he is the innovator of a school of thought called Sufism, and rendered it the ‘headquarters’ for his EVIL doctrine, and in it increased in apostasy and (became) a protection for their false doctrines.  (ibid)

NB:

Clear disapproval by Imam asSadiq (as) for the Sufi way,  because it was clear to the Imam that the Sufis would make an attempt at justifying their corrupted beliefs using the Imams as the authorive source of these beliefs.  Therefore we see the Imam clearly stating that he is ‘FREE OF THEM’.  Which negates the corrupted beliefs of all who try to form or claim that the Imams (as) had a connection with Sufism

IMAM AL-REDHA (AS)

Imam al-Redha (as) said:

“There is not one who professes Sufism but only for reason of deception, misguidance and foolishness” (ibid)

It is narrated that a group of Sufis came to Khorasan to Imam al-Redha (as) and said to him:  ‘The Prince of the Faithful thought about Allah’s guardianship to him in all affairs, and he found you the most worthy of being Imams over the people.  He then looked at You (Ahlul Bayt) and found you the most worthy of the people for the people, and deemed that this affair should return to you, and the Imamat requires one who eats ‘wood’ (dry and hard substances), and wears coarse garments, and rides a donkey and visits the sick.

Imam al-Redha answered them:

“Yousef (as) was a prophet who wore silk garments and (as) sat on the cushions of Pharoah and ruled. What is needed from an Imam is his equivalence and Justice, and if he speaks, he tells the truth; and if he rules he is equitable; and if he pledges, he fulfills.  Allah (swt) does not forbid attire or (any) nourishment.  The Imam then recited the following verse, “Say: Who has prohibited the embellishment of Allah which He has brought forth for His servants and the good provisions?” (ibid)

IMAM AL-HADI (AS)

It is narrated that Imam al-Hadi(as) was in the Prophet’s Mosque, whereupon a group of his companions came to him, followed after by a group of Sufis, who came and sat in a circle in a corner of the Mosque and then began to glorify (hail).

The Imam said to them, ‘Do no turn and look at those deceivers for they are SATANS, who have destroyed the fundamentals of the religion.  They practice asceticism to comfort their bodies and they keep religious vigil to ‘catch the sheep’ (make a show and gain supporters). They forever go hungry to loosen (………..).  They do not praise (hail) except in vanity, and they do not limit their sustenance except to prevent (…..) and to ‘peculate’ the heart of the ignorant.  They talk in their speeches of love and with their proofs they hurl them into the pits.  Their ‘watering place’ is dance and confrontation, and their praises are chanting and singing.  None but the FOOLISH follow them, and none but the IGNORANT believes in them.  And whomever goes to visit any of them ALIVE or DEAL, it is as if he has aided YAZID, MUWAIWIYAH and ABU SUFYAN.

A man from his companions then said, ‘Even though he acknowledge your (Ahlul Bayt’s) Rights?”

The Imam looked at him in a somewhat angry manner and said:

“Enough of that! For whoever acknowledges our rights, does not consort to disobedience of us.  Do you not know that they are the most ignoble of the sects of this Ummah?  They are ones that strive to extinguish the Light of Allah, and Allah will not consent save to perfect His light, though the unbelievers are averse.”

IMAM AL-ASKARI

It is narrated that Imam al-Askari said to Abu Hisham al-Ju’fi:

“O Abu Hisham! There will come a time where people’s faces are laughing and joyous, their hearts dark and indeterminate.  The Sunnah amongst them is innovation and the innovation Sunnah.  The believer amongst them is demeaned and the evil one venerated.  Their rules are oppressive and their scholars through the doors of darkness proceed.  Their wealthy pillage the provision of their poor.  Their young precede their old, and every ignorant to them is an authority, and every assignee (I think trustees of treasury) to them is poor.  They do not differentiate between the sincere and the doubtful, nor do they know the sheep from wolves.  Their scholars are THE MOST EVIL OF GOD’S CREATION ON THE FACE OF EARTH, because they INCLINE TOWARDS PHILOSOPHY AND SUFISM.

By Allah! They are of the ENEMIES and people of DISTORTION. They exaggerate in their love for our opponents and they misguide our Shia and Followers.”  (ibid)

THE FAITHFUL SCHOLARS AND SUFISM

And on the same path of the Imams from Ahlul bait, the faithful scholars preceded in destroying any status or threshold of Sufism. Amongst our greatest scholars being Al-Hur al-Ameli and Al-Ardabeeli and Al-Majlisi.

Al-Hur al-Ameli was amongst the first of those whom set about proving that there is no connection in Shia Ithna Asheri School of thought with Sufism.  In his book, “Al-Ithna Ahariya fi al-radd ala alsufiya” (Ithna-Aheris rebuttal of Sufism), he narrates close to 1000 hadeeths rebutting and exposing the contradictions in their beliefs from that of the Shia Ithna-Asheris.

Then there was the likes of Al-Allamah al-Majlisi Mohammad Baqir bin Taqi who continued his work and in his path.  Al-Majlisi refused to meet with ‘Sayf alHukm’ who was from the Sufis.  

He, al-Majlisi was then summoned by Shah Hussain, who wished for him to assume that post, as a favour to him.  Al-Shah Hussain asked al-Majlisi what do you want in return for this favour.  Al-Majlisi requested that there be no alcohol or fighting or playing around in the bathes.

Shah then ordered that the requests of Al-Majlisi be met, and also as per the request of Al-Majlisi ALL SUFIS WERE BANISHED FROM ISFAHAN and any dhikr sessions exclusive to the Sufis was prohibited, and in fact anything that had any connection with Sufism.

And from there Al-Sheikh Al-Majlisi  embarked on the strong stance against the Sufis, practically and intellectually, and issued his fatwas  declaring Sufis apostates and authored his book “Ayn al-Hayat”, in which he declared his position on Sufism and its adherents and the reasons for his stance against them.

And then there was al-Muqad’dis al-Ardabeeli who authored the book “hadeeqat al-Shia fe al-radd ala al-Sufiyah”, in which he categorized their madhab into three, Hululiyah (pantheism),  ihaad’iy’a (Unity), Ushaaqiy’a (Adorement), and then proceeded in giving the stance of Ahlul Bayt (as) and the righteous scholars from Sufism.

Of the scholars of The City of Qum to oppose Sufism was Ayatollah Al-Sayed Shihaab al-Deen al-Najafi Al-Mar-ashi, who authored his book ‘ihqaaq al-haqq” (Enforcement of Truth).  He regards the scourge of Sufism as of the GREATEST ADVERSITIES WHICH HAS BEEN THE CAUSE IN THE RUINATION OF THE PILLARS OF ISLAM.

IMAM ALI (AS)

Asceticism of Imam Ali (as) was cognizance of Allah (swt) and Thankfulness to HIM, and abstinence from the forbidden and patience in times of adversity and obedience to Allah (swt), not desisting and abstaining from what Allah has deemed permissible of the good things for that would be complete contradiction of the Quran in which Allah (swt) says:

O you who believe! Do not forbid (yourselves) the good things which Allah has made lawful for you and do not exceed the limits; surely Allah does not love those who exceed the limits. [Al-Ma'idah 5:87]

Nahjul Balaghah

Sermon 207 --- On seeing the vastness of the house of Ala bin Zaid Harisi

 

Ameerul Momineen went to esquire about the health of his companion Ala ibn Ziyad al-Harisi and when he noticed the vastness of his house he said:

 

What will you do with this vast house in this world, although you need this house more in the next world? If you want to take it to the next world you could entertain in it guests and be regardful of kinship and discharge all (your) obligations according to their accrual. In this way you will be able to take it to the next world.

 

Then al-Ala said to him: O' Ameerul Momineen, I want to complain to you about my brother `Asim ibn Ziyad.  Ameerul Momineen enquired:  

What is the matter with him?

al-`Ala' said:  He has put on a woolen coat and cut himself away from the world. Ameerul Momineen said:  

 

Present him to me.

When he came Ameerul Momineen said:

 

O' enemy of yourself. Certainly, the evil (Satan) has misguided you. Do you feel no pity for your wife and your children? Do you believe that if you use those things, which Allah has made lawful for you, He will dislike you? You are too unimportant for Allah to do so.

He said: "O' Ameerul Momineen, I am following your example.  Look at your dress, how course, rough and cheap it is even the poorest of us would not care to wear it.  Look at your food, it is dry and stale bread." Then Imam Ali (AS) replied:  

 

Woe to you, I am not like you. Certainly, Allah, the Sublime, has made it obligatory on true leaders that they should maintain themselves at the level of low people so that the poor do not cry over their poverty.  

Saying 431

 

The whole of asceticism is confined between two expressions of Quran.  Allah the Glorified says:

 

"...lest distress you yourselves for what escapes you, and be overjoyous for what He has granted you.."   (Quran, 57:23)

 

Whoever does not grieve over what he misses and does not revel over what comes to him acquires asceticism from both its sides.

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Salaam alaikum,

I think we have to define what we are talking about.  For that I will quote a note from "Light Within Me" .

1. The Islamic esoterics known as Irfan or gnosis is sometimes associated with Tasawwuf or mysticism whose certain rites and rituals are repugnant to Islam. However Shi'aism considers Islamic acts of worship to be sufficient for gaining proximity to Allah.

I believe the last sentence tells us the type of Irfan that Imam Khomeini(ra) practiced.  Not some practices made up by mystics, but acts of worship that takes one closer to Allah(swt).  We have learned these methods of worship from the Ahlul Bayt.

WaSalaam, Hajar

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Bismillah wha Salam!

Thank you sis. Hajar for that!  :)

With irfan....i mean i try to worship Him like a free man, that is that you worship Him because He is worthy of being wroshipped.

If we take the angels for example, there are angels who Allah (Swt) has appointed to do sajdah on each heaven, and since he created that heaven they have not raised their heads, according to Nahjul Balagha.

It is nothing wrong with worshiping Him because of fear of His punishment, or hope for His reward, but it is more noble to try to worship Him because he deserves to be just as the ayah says that "I created man and djinn for worshiping me".

When i say irfan, that is what i mean. Just changing my intentions, not become sufi or something like that, i am still 12 imami but i try to worship Him because He deserves it.

Now tell me is that wrong even though i do taqleed of Seyyed Seestani (ha)?!

You can call it whatever you want, the term is not important, may it be called irfan, it does not matter, it has to do with your intentions....those are mine....to try to worship Him because that is what I am created for. I worship just like any other shia....i just try to change my niyyat a bit.

And of course worship in not just the prayer mat, it is so much more. Giving a nice look at your parents i one form of worship, getting your incomst in halal matters is another. The whole life, if perfomed under His laws, is a kind of worship.

Since I have loaned out my mishaktul anwar  :cry: i cant quote the hadith from Imam Sajjad (a) which says that you should worship Him because of Him.

Now that you know my intentions.....call me whatever you want....the term is not important.....but i belive they call it irfan....i dont care what they call it i just try to worship Him because of His kindness, mercy etc.

Nice hadtihs...still im no sufi. I dont even know for certain what they belive in....but they are 12 imamis that i know.

Anyways if you still persist on this....i will find those hadiths to prove my stance and why i try to have the intention i have said.

Then you decide what to call me....it doesnt matter.

Capish?  :nono:

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Guest Pearlsinvinegar

....i just try to change my niyyat a bit.

Salam,

I would think that all muslims make the same niyyat when they worship : qurbattan illallah, ie to seek nearness to Allah.

Anyway I hope this thread doesnt go off at a tangent, or resort to personal attacks etc. My reply was meant to be informative, it was not a personal attack.

The facts/hadith/rulings have been put forward, each person is then free to decide what he/she wishes to do. You are accountable to Allah not this forum :)

Not that Im in any position to judge you, but I dont see how what you described is sufism so I dont know why youre defensive or thinking that I or anyone else needs to "capish" you. :)

Id still like to see the hadith which you have in mind. Because sharing hadith is a virtuous act to be encouraged.

Imam al-Sadiq (as) said to Dawud Ibn Sarhan, "O Dawud, offer my greetings to my friends and deliver this message to them that Allah blessed a servant who gathers with another to make the remembrance of our matter, and in that case, the third among them is an angel who asks forgiveness for them. When two servants gather for our remembrance Allah reminds His glory to His angels (for having such servants). Thus, when you gather spend your time on remembering (us) since your gathering and your remembering makes us live. And the best people after us are those who remind to our matter and invite to our remembrance."

al-Amali, al-Tusi, p224, Hadith 390; Bihar al-Anwar, v1, p200, Hadith 8.

Edited By Pearlsinvinegar on 1035363606

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bismillah

(salam)

Irfaan is a spiritual journey that can only be undertaken by the extremely pious.

Like brother 'AlQaadim' mentioned is the 1st post of this thread, Ayatullah Imam Khomeini was a great Aarif.

Ayatullah Samahat Sheikh Behjat is one of the greatest of the 'Urafaa' of our time. Ayatullah Behjat has met our Imam Al-Mahdi on a number of occasions due to his piety. Our Imam would not spend time with the 'deviant' or 'misleading' people.

Imam al-Redha (as) said:

“There is not one who professes Sufism but only for reason of deception, misguidance and foolishness”

OK, agreed, but the practice of the sufis IS NOT the same as the Irfaan of our Ulama!!!! :angry:

FAR FROM IT!!! :o

Irfaan and Sufism there is no difference, an Irfaani is Shi'i and a Sufi is Sunni

NOO! This is completelly incorrect!!!

I don't wish to offend anyone but the truth must be told, my friend asked Sayyid Seestani on www.najf.org

I feel that when asking our mara'j3 questions, the questions need to be asked in context and not vaguely.

'LIGHT WITHIN ME' is an excellent book to find out more about Irfaan. Irfaan is seems to be very misunderstood by people. Irfaan DOES NOT MEAN dancing around and jumping up and down till one faints; like the sufis do!!

The 'Urafaa' of our time are pious and blessed people.

Their Irfaan is used in order to aid Islam and muslims. These people are soooo pious that they can see the physical manifestations of our deeds when we have no idea about them. They are able to see beyond this World and beyond many of its 'curtains'.

Ayatullah Behjat, for example, is so pious, that it is said that you cannot pray behind him in the first two lines of jamaa3, AND get passed the 2nd 'rakaat' (unit of prayer) without weeping in awe of Allah.  :cry:

Even if you have never cried in your life and have a heart of stone!! :o

So bros and siss, lets fully understand a topic before we start to trash and rubbish it plz.

wassalaam

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786-110

(salam)

I encourage everybody to read

LIGHT WITHIN ME

Surely then you will see the only differences between Irfaan and sufism are the names. They both accept the wahdatul wujud doctrine, this in itself is [i:post_uid0]shirk[/i:post_uid0]. I fear people are getting misguided and carried away with this Irfaan.

Wassalam

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786-110

(salam)

For those that want it spoon fed

"Similarly the universe and its manifestations are the signs of their Creator, an evidence of His existence and His power. They have no independent existence." Preface, Tabatabaei

One existence, that is Allah, so therefore we are a part of Allah, this is tantamount to the Christian belief that we are all the children of God.

"In view of this distinction the gnostics, when referred to as belonging to a certain academic discipline, are called 'urafa' and when referred to as a social group are generally called Sufis (mutasawwifah)."

Part 1: by Shaheed Murtada Mutahhari

An Introduction to Irfan

Here Mutaheri doesn't differentiate between irfaan and sufism.

"Of course, there is a world of difference between the tawhid of the 'arif and the general view of tawhid."

Mutaheri

If by now you're not convinced that irfaan is not the Islam prescribed to us by our Prophet (pbuh), sorry i can't help you.

wassalaam

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bismillah

(salam)

due to one's piety and aquisition of irfaan, the person is enabled to carry out things that would seem 'super-natural' to ordinary people.

Ayatullah Behjat once gave two hawza lessons in two different places, 100s of miles apart, at the same time!! :s   = POWERS OF IRFAAN, GRACED BY Allah

How did Imam Ali  (as) lift the door of khaybar? From the miraculous power of Allah (SWT)?? Ofcourse!!

But due to his unmatchable standards of piety!!  :o

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Salam

Brother are you calling me an unbeliever?

are you saying I practice shirk?

I will speak to you on the level of your understanding

as you seem to have difficulty in the level we speak

This is how i teach my children

Irfan is a spirtual path,where one try's to conquer ones base desires, like ego-self worship-anger-sexual deviences-e,c,t

The prayer is the key, brother have you ever done one rakat in prayer without thinking of wordly things,oh im hungry,oh i must pay that bill,oh  oh oh.your wordly desires and fears.

What we try to do is worship Allah as if we see him for surely he see's us.

To only think of Allah(swt) we worship him not for fear of hell fire nor reward of heaven ONLY BECAUSE HE IS WORTHY TO BE WORSHIPPED...I am not worshipping my self,I am not AllahÓÈÍÇäå æÊÚÇáì

I hope your level of intelligence can understand now, we are not sufi's, we are shia muslims  WHO ONLY WISH TO MOVE CLOSURE TO AllahÓÈÍÇäå æÊÚÇáì

Brother I have asked you before DO NOT INSULT THE PURE HOUSEHOLD(AS). please or our ullima

please do not go around calling your brothers and sisters unbelievers...

There is no compulsion in religion, if some choose to try to move closure to Allah(swt) and gain his pleasure, judge them on their intentions, as Allah(swt) will judge all of us, do not denounce what you have no knowledge on.at the minimum at least agree to disagree.be civil use your Islamic manners and ethics,and brother please take no joy in telling your brothers and sisters they are unbelievers, as you seem to do, if you knew Allah(swt) wrath you would not wish it on anyone..

Guard your door brother lest shayatan knocks

salams and duas

me

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Salam o Alekum,

There is a type of Irfan prescribed by the Prophet (SAWW) and his Ahlul Bait (as). This is what the most pious servents of Allah practice. You can read about it in books like "Light within me" and "Self Building" both available on line at al-islam.org

This is very different from the deviated Irfan that many "Sufis" of today and the past practice.

To MIX both the correct and deviated version of Irfan and say that all type of Irfan is shirk is not right.

Khuda Hafiz.

Edited By Orion on 1035381574

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Since I have loaned out my mishaktul anwar  :cry: i cant quote the hadith from Imam Sajjad (a) which says that you should worship Him because of Him.

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786-110

(salam)

confuscus

Brother are you calling me an unbeliever?

are you saying I practice shirk?

On the contrary dear brother, the belief in wahdatul wujud is [i:post_uid0]shirk[/i:post_uid0] and who have only made it too obvious that you don't believe in it. by saying this:

What we try to do is worship Allah as if we see him for surely he see's us.

To only think of Allah(swt) we worship him not for fear of hell fire nor reward of heaven ONLY BECAUSE HE IS WORTHY TO BE WORSHIPPED...I am not worshipping my self,I am not AllahÓÈÍÇäå æÊÚÇáì

Dear brother, do you have to immediately insult me by saying im like speaking to a child, if you disagree with what I say, argue constructively, do not belittle me, If I'm being childish it would look apparent without you needing to bring it to everyones attention.

Brother I have asked you before DO NOT INSULT THE PURE HOUSEHOLD(AS). please or our ullima

please do not go around calling your brothers and sisters unbelievers...

God forbid, that I insulted the Holy Household, if I have may Allah curse me, and as for my dear brothers and sisters, I clearly said this

They both accept the wahdatul wujud doctrine, this in itself is shirk.

So please brother confuscus, note well that I have said wahdatul wujud is shirk and you cant possible be a mushrik because you don't believe in it.

Wassalaam

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I don't wish to offend anyone but the truth must be told, my friend asked Sayyid Seestani on www.najf.org

This is his emails

> >From: "Imam Ali \(a.s.\) Foundation"

> >To:

> >Subject: RE: Question from Hussein

> >Date: Tue, 25 Jun 2002 19:23:51 +0100

> >

> >Irfan is the centre point of Sufism. > >

> >Wasalaam

> >

> >-----Original Message-----

> >From: (sorry confidential)@hotmail.com [mailto:(sorry confidential)@hotmail.com]

> >Sent: Friday, April 26, 2002 8:48 AM

> >To:

> >Subject: Question from Hussein

> >

> >

> >Salam Alaykom,

> > I wanted to ask whether "irfan" is the same as sufism and if it

> >falls within the realms of Islam. Thank you

and the second email

>From: "Imam Ali \(a.s.\) Foundation"

>To: "'Hussein"  

>Subject: RE: Question from Hussein

>Date: Tue, 22 Oct 2002 15:12:57 +0100

>

>Assalaamu Alaikum

>

>[b:post_uid0]Any spiritual advice that is not taken from AhlulBayt (as) is misleading[/b:post_uid0].

>

>Wasalaam

>

>

>

> -----Original Message-----

> From: Hussein  [mailto:(sorry confidential)@hotmail.com]

> Sent: Sunday, August 18, 2002 5:28 AM

> To:

> Subject: RE: Question from Hussein

>

>

> Salam Alaykom,

>

> Ok i understand what it is now, but is it recommended

>that we take spiritual advice from people who have nothing to do with

>AhlulBayt(a.s.) and the Prophet Muhammed(saws), but take their methods from

>their own minds which have been influenced by Greek philosophy such as Plato

>and Aristotle????

[b:post_uid0]For all those who do taqleed of Sayyid Seestani NB. this is sufficient[/b:post_uid0].

Wassalaam

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786-110

(salam)

I encourage everybody to read

LIGHT WITHIN ME

Surely then you will see the only differences between Irfaan and sufism are the names. They both accept the wahdatul wujud doctrine, this in itself is [i:post_uid0]shirk[/i:post_uid0]. I fear people are getting misguided and carried away with this Irfaan.

Wassalam

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Preface, Tabatabaei: "Similarly the universe and its manifestations are the signs of their Creator, an evidence of His existence and His power. They have no independent existence."

Comments by Abdulhujjah: One existence, that is Allah, so therefore we are a part of Allah, this is tantamount to the Christian belief that we are all the children of God.

Once again you are misunderstanding what Tabatabaei said. He is not saying that universe and its manifestations are God. All he said that they are "signs of God" he does not say they are God Himself.

I recommend you to read the book comletely.

Khuda Hafiz.

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786-110

(salam)

Orion,

Firstly, I have great respect for you, I have never once seen you abuse anyone or degrade anyone. You are a true follower of Ahlul Bait (as). I hope many others including myself can learn from your ways of debating. God bless you.

Wassalaam

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786-110

(salam)

Orion,

Interested on what your opinion is on this:

The Real Truth Is Nothing But He

If we look into the question deeply, we come to the conclusion that there is nothing but Allah and that His glory is not but He himself. To illustrate this truth we cannot conceive of any example which may exactly fit in with it. The simile of shadow and the thing casting shadow is defective.

The relation between Allah and His glory can best be illustrated by the example of Sea and its waves.

Perhaps this is the closest similitude. As we know, the waves of the sea are not separate from the sea itself, but still the sea is not the waves, although the waves are the sea. When the sea vibrates, the waves rise in it. At that time the sea and its waves appear to us to be separate from each other. But the waves are a temporary phenomenon. They are again merged in the sea. In fact the waves do not exist independently. This world is also like a wave. Anyhow, even this similitude is not perfect, for no similitude can properly illustrate the relation between Allah and His creation. We talk only as we perceive. There are two aspects of this question. On the one hand there are some general conceptions like the names of Allah, the names of His attributes and His actions and some stages and stations. These are the conceptions we can perceive. The second stage is that of adducing arguments to prove that Allah and His glory are not separate from each other. To prove this it is said that Allah is pure and absolute existence that can in no way be qualified or limited, for an existence qualified or incomplete in any way cannot be absolute. The absolute existence must be perfect, unlimited and free from all restrictions and deficiencies. The attributes of Absolute Existence must also be absolute and unspecified. Neither Allah's mercifulness is specified or limited nor His compassionateness nor His divinity.

Wassalaam

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Bismillah wha Salam!

God bless you on that one sis. Hajar...again....second time you help me out here! ;)  :)

And just in case...let me quote saying nr 206 from Nahjul Balagha

There are people, who worship Allah to gain His Favours; this is the worship of traders; there are some, who worship Him to keep themselves free from His Wrath; this is the worship of slaves; there are a few, who obey Him out of their sense of gratitude and obligations; this is the worship of free and noble men.

And regarding that 'arefs are shias while sufis are sunnis that is entirly wrong, since Iran is full of sufis who are 12 imami shias also....so that is wrong.

Now let me declare my stance once and for all.....now if im called irfani, sufi, sunni, shia, slave, dumb, stupid, ant, bee, crazy, kafer, mushrik, tiny, big whatever, i dont care for terms, i will be judged based on my intention. We all must admitt now that to worship Him, after deep pondering, recognizing his Creator, and then to worship Him just for the simple fact He has created you and is showering His mercy upon you, and you try to move closere to Him....do you call this shirk?

Further....a true shia of Ali (as) isnt just to keep down your hands and pray maghrib-isha togheter and belive in the imams....its alot deeper. A true shia of ali is the best in hiw town in worship, piety etc. He does not eat much, fast much etc. He is almost an ascetic, to the limit of it. That is a true shia of Ali (as) according to hadith....i still miss my mishaktul anwar :cry: so i cant quote some :cry:

anyways....have we settled this matter now?

Forgett the terms it is the intention and meaning that counts.

To me irfan means to worhsip Him because He deserves it and try to move closer to Him and forgett this world...that is irfan to me and that is why i voted mustahab.

and now abulhujjaj....if you still persist on calling me mushrik....then perhaps i am a mushrik in your eyes, may Allah (swt) forgive both yours and my sins, but will all due respect it is not your pleasure i try to win but His, and what is important to me is if I am a mushrik in His eyes or not.

It has to do with intentions...not fatwas.....do you understand?

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Bismillah wha Salam!

one more thing.....check out the hadith on my signature.....if you saw His mercy you would never raise your head....in my eyes that is what i recognize irfan with also....and again i dont care for terms.....you can called it "Ehsan style to try to get closer to Him" if you want....it does not matter ;) :D  :P

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Orion,

Interested on what your opinion is on this:

The Real Truth Is Nothing But He

If we look into the question deeply, we come to the conclusion that there is nothing but Allah and that His glory is not but He himself. To illustrate this truth we cannot conceive of any example which may exactly fit in with it. The simile of shadow and the thing casting shadow is defective.

The relation between Allah and His glory can best be illustrated by the example of Sea and its waves.

Perhaps this is the closest similitude. As we know, the waves of the sea are not separate from the sea itself, but still the sea is not the waves, although the waves are the sea. When the sea vibrates, the waves rise in it. At that time the sea and its waves appear to us to be separate from each other. But the waves are a temporary phenomenon. They are again merged in the sea. In fact the waves do not exist independently. This world is also like a wave. Anyhow, even this similitude is not perfect, for no similitude can properly illustrate the relation between Allah and His creation. We talk only as we perceive. There are two aspects of this question. On the one hand there are some general conceptions like the names of Allah, the names of His attributes and His actions and some stages and stations. These are the conceptions we can perceive. The second stage is that of adducing arguments to prove that Allah and His glory are not separate from each other. To prove this it is said that Allah is pure and absolute existence that can in no way be qualified or limited, for an existence qualified or incomplete in any way cannot be absolute. The absolute existence must be perfect, unlimited and free from all restrictions and deficiencies. The attributes of Absolute Existence must also be absolute and unspecified. Neither Allah's mercifulness is specified or limited nor His compassionateness nor His divinity.

Wassalaam

Brother Abdulhujjah,

Salam o Alekum,

A few things I should say first.

-What I say is based on my understanding. I cannot say what the author really meant to say. I generally find these philosophical discussions hard to understand by someone like me.

-Irfan is not a philosophy or theory, it is an experience. We as humans have a number of limitations, or wails. These will be removed when we die. That is when we will experience the truth. Those who have passed through the levels of Irfan or those who become arif may experience things that you and I cannot perceive without experiencing them ourselves.

-Don’t just read the lines, also read what is written in between the lines, the true meaning of what the author is trying to say.

OK, now let me tell you what I understand from what author is saying:

“To illustrate this truth we cannot conceive of any example which may exactly fit in with it. No similitude can properly illustrate the relation between Allah and His creation. Allah is the 'creator', 'cause' and 'sustainer' of all things. Nothing can exist without Him. It is because of His Glory that the universe exists. If you remove the thing its shadow will disappear. If you remove the sea, there will be no waves. Another example is that of Sun and Sunlight (rays of Sun). They are created, caused and sustained by the Sun. If somehow you turn the sun off, the rays of the sun (Sunlight) will vanish.  Everything is because of God. If you for the sake of discussion remove God from the picture, the Universe and its contents will not be sustainable and thus vanish. An Arif sees the glory of God in all His creations as everything is so insignificant and dependent on Him.”

The above is my understanding.

Was-Salam.

Edited By Orion on 1035399299

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Orion,

Firstly, I have great respect for you, I have never once seen you abuse anyone or degrade anyone.

This is simply because I am here to:

-Learn.

-Help.

I am not here to fight.

You are a true follower of Ahlul Bait (as).

Thanks for the comments, but I wish they were true. I know how far I am from being a true follower (Shia). Its just an illusion created by my style.

I wish I could be 0.01% of what I read in books. Just look read this:

-----

[b:post_uid0]Hammam was one of the companions of Imam' Ali (A), a very pious and God fearing man. He once asked Imam to explain at length the qualities of pious person. He wanted the explanation to be so graphic and so vivid that he could get the picture of a pious man in his mind's eyes. Imam knew that Hammam had a very tender heart and was disinclined to explain piety in the way that Hammam had requested and evading the subject he replied.

"Hammam! Fear God and do good deeds. Remember that God is always a companion of pious and good people! " But Hammam was not satisfied with this reply and wanted to say something more. He pressed so much and others joined him and seconded his request that Imam reluctantly delivered the following sermon. After praising the Lord and praying Him to bless the Holy Prophet (A) Imam thus, continued the sermon as follows:

"When God created mankind He was not in need of their obedience and prayers, neither was He nervous of their disobedience. Because, disobedience or insubordination of men cannot harm Him, similar obedience of obedient people cannot do Him any good. He is beyond the reach of harm and benefit. After creating man He decided for hi the variety of food which his body could absorb and assimilate, and the places which were congenial for him to live and to propagate. Among these human beings excellent are those who are pious and who fear God.”

"They possess pre-eminence and excellence because they always speak truthfully, rightly and to the point, their way of living is based upon moderation, and their mode of dealing with other men is founded on their good will, fellow feeling and courtesy towards them. They deny themselves the things prohibited by God. They concentrate their minds upon knowledge of things which will bring them eternal bliss. They bear hardships and sufferings as happily as they enjoy comforts and pleasures. If God had not fixed the span of life for each one of them, their souls in desire of attaining His Heaven and out of fear of falling into His displeasure, would not have stayed in their bodies for long."

"They have visualized mentally the glory of God in such a way that beyond him nothing in this world alarms, frightens or awes them. Everything other than His might appears to them as insignificant and humble. They believe in the Heaven and its blessings like a person who has been there and has actually seen everything of the Heaven with his own eyes. Similarly, their faith in the Hell and its torments is as strong as that of a person who had passed through its sufferings. They feel that the tortures of the Hell are around them and very near to them.”

"The ways of worldly people make them sorry. They harm nobody. They do not indulge in excessive eating and pleasure seeking. Their wants are limited. Their wishes are few. They have accepted patiently sufferings and adversities in this mortal and transitory life for the sake of eternal bliss which by the grace of God proved for them a very profitable transaction. The vicious world desired their fellowship but they turned their faces away from it. It wanted to snare them, but they willingly accepted every trouble and discomfort to free themselves from its clutches.”

“Their nights they spend in carefully studying the Quran, because, of their weaknesses and short-comings, and try to find ways from this Holy book for improvements of their minds. In the study of the Quran when they came across a passage describing the Heaven they feel highly attracted towards it and develop such a keen desire to reach it; that the Heaven with all its blessings is visualized by their minds, while a passage about the Hell frightens them and makes them feel as if they are seeing and hearing the raging fire and the groans and lamentations of those who are suffering the tortures of the Hell.”

"Nights they spend in praying before the Lord and requesting and beseeching Him to deliver them from the Hell. Days find them occupied with such works that clearly indicate their wisdom, depth of knowledge, virtuousness, and piety. Constant fasting, simple diet: avoidance of every aspect of luxury and regular hard work make them look lean and haggard, but they possess very sound and robust health. When people hear them  discussing various problems of life they often take them to be whimsical fanatic or even half-witted. But it is not so, they are not satisfied with the quality and quantity of the work done by them in the cause of religion and humanity .The more they work the less they feel satisfied. Having set up a very high standard of efficiency for their work they fell nervous that indolence may not make it impossible for them to attain those heights.”

"If anyone of them is praised for piety, virtuousness and the good deeds done by him, he does not like to be so complimented; he is afraid that such praise may not allure him towards vanity, self flattery, and self glorification. He says, I know my mind and my work more than others, and God knows much more than me. O Lord! Please do not hold me responsible for what they have said about me. You know very well that I did not instigate them for such praises. Please Lord! Grant me excellence far greater than what they complimented me for. And Lord! Please forgive those of my sins short-comings which they do not know.”

"You will find every pious person possessing the following attributes. He is resolute though tender-hearted and kind. He is unwavering in his convictions and beliefs. He is thirsty for knowledge. He forgives those who harmed him, fully knowing that they have wronged him. Even when owning wealth his ways of life are based upon moderation. His prayers are models of humility and submissiveness to God. Even when starving he will maintain his self-respect. He will bear sufferings patiently.”

“He will resort only to honest means of living. Leading others towards truth and justice, will give him pleasure. He disdains avarice and greed. Though he does good deeds all the time, yet he feels nervous of his short-comings. Every night, he thanks God for having passed one more day under His Grace and Mercy. Every morning finds him starting the day with the prayers of the Lord. Of nights he is cautious that he may not carelessly waste those hours in comfort and ease. He starts his days happy with the thought the Lord has given him another day to do his duty.”

“If his mind wishes for something unholy and impious he refuses to obey its dictates. He desires to achieve eternal bliss. Worldly pleasures do not interest him. His wisdom is mixed with patience. His deeds reciprocate his words (he does what he says). Inordinate desires do not trouble him. He has few defects in him. He is courteous to others. He possesses a contended mind. He eats little, he does not harm anybody. He is easy to be pleased. He is strong in his faith. His passions are dead. His temper is controlled.”

"People expect good out of him and consider themselves immune from his harm. Even if he is found among godless people his name will be written in the list of Godly persons. If he is in company of those who always remember God, naturally his name will not be included amongst those who forget Him. He forgives those who harm him. He helps those who have forsaken him and have refused to help him. He is kind to those who have been cruel to him. He does good to those who do evil to him. He never indulges in loose talks. He has no vice in him, and his good qualities are outstanding, noticeable, and prominent, when facing dangers and disasters he is calm and undisturbed. In sufferings and calamities he is patient and hopeful. In prosperity he is thankful to God. He would not harm his worst enemy. He will never commit a sin even for the sake of his best friend.”

"Before anybody has to bear testimony to his fault he accepts and owns it. He never misappropriates anything entrusted to him. He never forgets what he has been told. He does not slander anybody. He does not harm his neighbors. When misfortunes befall any person he does not blame him, neither is he happy at the losses of others. He neither goes astray from the right path nor follows a wrong one. His silence does not indicate,. his moroseness nor his laughters are loud and boisterous. He bears persecution patiently and God punishes his oppressor. He is hard to himself and very lenient to others. He bears hardships in this life to attain eternal comfort and peace. He never wrongs a fellow being. If he avoids anybody it is to retain his piety and uprightness. If he forms contract with anybody it is on account of his kindness and clemency. He does not avoid anybody because of his pride and vanity, and he does not mix with others with ulterior motives of hypocrisy, pretense, and vile."[/b:post_uid0]

Edited By Orion on 1035400208

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Bismillah wha Salam!

Thought you might find this interesting also...even the true christians have their form of irfan...just check this out:

The Parable of the Good Samaritan

25On one occasion an expert in the law stood up to test Jesus. "Teacher," he asked, "what must I do to inherit eternal life?"

26"What is written in the Law?" he replied. "How do you read it?"

27He answered: [b:post_uid0]" 'Love the Lord your God with all your heart and with all your soul and with all your strength and with all your mind'[/b:post_uid0][3] ; and, 'Love your neighbor as yourself.'[4] "

28"You have answered correctly," Jesus replied. "Do this and you will live."

/Luke 10: 25-29

You see so even the christians try to Love Him, because He deserves to be loved.

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786-110

(salam)

Brother ehsan,

What you believe is correct as long as you don't believe you are one with Allah. Why has everyone accused me of calling them mushriks, all I have said that belief that there is only one existence (wahdatul wujud) is [i:post_uid0]shirk[/i:post_uid0]. [b:post_uid0]One more time in case anyone hasn't understood me, I haven't called anyone a mushrik, all I have said if you think that you are one with Allah, you are doing [i:post_uid0]shirk[/i:post_uid0][/b:post_uid0].

Orion,

As for khutbat al-mutaqeen, i've nearly memorized it in arabic, I absolutely love that hadith.

Wassalaam

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786-110

(salam)

I encourage everybody to read

LIGHT WITHIN ME

Surely then you will see the only differences between Irfaan and sufism are the names. They both accept the wahdatul wujud doctrine, this in itself is [i:post_uid1]shirk[/i:post_uid1]. I fear people are getting misguided and carried away with this Irfaan.

Wassalam

Salaam alaikum,

I think the words are getting us confused.  Perhaps irfan is not the correct word to use, as it has association with the wrong concepts.  However I don't know what other word we can use.  What would you call the correct form of growing spiritually and getting closer to Allah?

waSalaam, Hajar

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Salam

Below is the creation of Adam(as)..I think this is where the misunderstanding is occuring.

Description of the Creation of Adam

Allah collected from hard, soft, sweet and sour earth, clay which He dripped in water till it got pure, and kneaded it with moisture till it became gluey. From it He carved an image with curves, joints, limbs and segments. He solidified it till it dried up for a fixed time and a known duration. Then He blew into it out of His Spirit whereupon it took the pattern of a human being with mind that governs him, intelligence which he makes use of, limbs that serve him, organs that change his position, sagacity that differentiates between truth and untruth, tastes and smells, colours and species. He is a mixture of clays of different colours, cohesive materials, divergent contradictories and differing properties like heat, cold, softness and hardness.

salams and duas

stay safe

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786-110

(salam)

I encourage everybody to read

LIGHT WITHIN ME

Surely then you will see the only differences between Irfaan and sufism are the names. They both accept the wahdatul wujud doctrine, this in itself is [i:post_uid0]shirk[/i:post_uid0]. I fear people are getting misguided and carried away with this Irfaan.

Wassalam

Salaam alaikum,

I think the words are getting us confused.  Perhaps irfan is not the correct word to use, as it has association with the wrong concepts.  However I don't know what other word we can use.  What would you call the correct form of growing spiritually and getting closer to Allah?

waSalaam, Hajar

(salam)

agreed..

words are confusing us here...

but these are the words used by Agha Khomeini .. SUFI'ISM, MYSTICISM..

he did use these words uh??

Ayatollah Khumaini, in his lectures on the opening chapter of Quraan deals at length with the misunderstanding regarding sufism and concludes: "We find certain scholars denying the validity of mysticism. This is regrettable."Islam & Revolution, Writings and Declarations of Imam Khomeini, Mizan Press, ISBN 0-933782-04-7, pages 419 to 423

....but I think, these aren't the true words to be used..This is spreading misconception...

I do believe in hmm (dont know the exact word, dont want to use mysticism), but I donot believe that I am the part of Allah.. or any such thing.. I believe in the complete unicity of Allah, and believe that we are His creatures..

ma salama

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