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In the Name of God بسم الله

There is no respect on shiachat.. - I think i will be leaving

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Assalaamu Alaikum

After reading certain comments about myself in topics i have yet not even taken part in, i feel offended and sad that some people claiming to be the shia of Ahlulbayt (as) would do this. I am very disappointed with the approach used by certain people and i no longer see it fit to discuss with them in the manner being used at the moment.

The behaviour from certain people on this forum is disgraceful, disgusting and totally unnecessary. Such comments only reflect on the akhlaq of the people involved.

I obviously seem to be the problem from the messages i have been reading and this has led me to reconsider my coming on this website. I make no secret that the 2 people making these remarks are the ones who are leading me to this decision.

Unless things take a change i will consider leaving shiachat, as it seems i am no longer welcome.

Fee Amanillah

Your Brother in Islam

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After reading certain comments about myself in topics i have yet not even taken part in.....

I think I know what you are talking about brother. Me and you had an interesting talk in person at a certain Islamic centre. Afterwhich a thread was posted on this site.

No offence was launched on you personally and your REAL NAME was never mentioned in any post!

If what you believe and say is true, then you should have no problem at all with it being discussed publicly.


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Bro Ya Zahra, you should be the last person I should be telling this to.  I know you personally have been attacked many times and you've tried your best in maintaining your cool.  Which is why everyone else involved in this has a warning and you dont.  I aslo respect the fact that you came up to me repeatedly to ask for my intervention in specific threads where you've been attacked and also at times asked for my permission to post in specific forums.  I respect that alot.

You out of all people should know the trouble the mod's go through on this site to maintain it, especially the controversial issues.  This is why there will be a new rule (currently being discussed) regarding controversial issues.

If you wish to leave, you're more than free to do so, if you wish to stick around for the change, more power to you.

Wa salam.

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Well some of us have self-respect. When one is called kaffir, munafiq, etc... sticking around just takes away that little left in a person. Shiachat admin are trying and i understand that, but that doesnt change the reality.

As i said i am considering it, i dont want to leave but my self-respect is more important.

AlQaadim, several offensive statements were lauched on me personally, and outside shiachat i have even had threats to myself and even family.

Regardless of this the truth will remain the truth. Allah is witness.


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In His Name, the Most High


Firstly, Ya Zahra, I do agree with you, there is very little respect on "shiachat".

Secondly, I am sorry to see that you are leaving, but maybe it will give you time to contemplate you lack of respect for certain members of the clergy, and certain remarks you have made.

Let me elaborate.

Firstly, I know who you are talking about when you say "2 people" - you are clearly talking about Br Jondab-Ali and myself.

Why the fear at saying our names?  We won't eat you up brother.  Why only today, I tried to call you so that we could meet up for dinner at the Islamic Center on the occasion of the Wiladah of Hadhrat Baqiyyat Allah(May our souls be his ransom).

On the issue of respect, let me clarify something, and make it as clear as crystal.

The only time that I have come out against you and PROVED certain things to you - is when you have insisted on creating fitneh and spreading discord regarding the validity of certain maraje'.

Granted, my tone of voice (well typed word) may be a little coarse, but there is a very important reason for this, and a reason that you are fully aware off.

I will elaborate the reason here in some depth so as to dispell any confusion and misunderstanding.

Regardless of whether someone has a problem with a Marja' or not, regardless of whether someone's opinion of a person - especially an Alem of high standing - such as Ayatullah al-Udhma Sayyed Muhammad Husayn Fadhlullah(HA) - is positive or negative - [b:post_uid0]you do not slander them on a public forum[/b:post_uid0].

The reason for this is simple.

This board can be and most probably is frequented by enemies of Islam, especially enemies of the true Islam of Muhammad(S).  This is a fact, and I am certain that it is something that the administrators can verify.

At the end of the day, there is no digital byte that you can differentiate a "Shia" or "believer" by.  Anyone can visit this site.

If a slanderous statement is made against an Alem Rabbani on a [b:post_uid0]publicly accessible board[/b:post_uid0] then it is wrong and in fact on an akhlaqi level (if not fiqhi) can become [b:post_uid0]haraam[/b:post_uid0] since it is something that can be used to create damage to the Community of Believers.

While I understand (though disagree with) your concerns, and following numerous requests to you to engage in mubahela (direct discussion) with Ayatullah Fadhlullah(HA) either by email, telephone, post, or even a trip to Lebanon to see him in person (all of which can be verified by the many posts in shiachat), you have insisted on being totally dogmatic in your approach to that individual.

Your allegations against him have been based on various declaration from Ulema in the Islamic Seminary in Qum, Islamic Iran.  Yet - there has been concrete proof that the allegations were falsified.

If an Alem gives a verdict, which is based on incorrect information, that verdict is rendered null and void in the context in which it was given.

For example, If I tell an Alem that Mr A has said that The Sky is Pink with Blue spots what is the ruling in this?

The Marja' tells me that I have issues with the sanity of Mr A.

This fatwa is valid in the event that Mr A has said his statement "The Sky is Pink with Blue spots" with no pre-conditions or post conditons.

Therefore, if Mr A had in reality said that: "If I wear a certain type of eyeglass, the [i:post_uid0]The Sky is Pink with Blue spots[/i:post_uid0]".

The verdict of the Marja is rendered null and void in respect to the person.  This is logical and a basic ruling within the Science of Usul al-Fiqh.

You can show this example to any Alem Rabbani (Islamic Scholar), and he will verify what I have stated.

What you have done, is to take certain words out of context, you have done this - (and I have proved it in previous posts) - with regard to Ayatullah Fadhlullah(HA), and hence the verdicts of the various Maraj'e are invalid - and you know they are.

You have also taken my words out of context in posts, I really wish my dear brother, that you would read my posts thoroughly, I admit I do write a lot, but this is my style, and I am sorry if people find it long winded, but people have told me in the past that they find it tedious and cumbersome to read Risalah Amaliyyah (Practical Laws Handbook) of the Various Maraje'.  So this is not surprising.

It is critical to read the post of the people you reply to - especially when they are your brothers, and they only what what is best for you.

You seem adamant to act like the oppressed person in this scenario, and I am sorry, but quite frankly I don't buy you "oppressed approach", since you - working at the Imam Ali Institute - should know better.

You accuse Br Jondab-Ali and myself of lacking basic Islamic Ethics, fair enough, while I cannot speak for Br Jondab-Ali (though I will vouch that his ethics and character are perfectly Islamic and in tune with that of an Islamic Student in the Hawza), maybe my ethics and akhlaq require work, I have on many times thanked you for the Amr Bil Ma'rouf (Enjoining the good) and Nahi Anil Munkar (Forbidding the Evil) that you have done with me in regard to my Islamic Ethics, and I am working hard on myself to correct my many flaws.

I pray that Allah, the Exhalted assits me, and helps me to develop a character worthy of a believer.  Amen.

But I ask you a question.  Is the slandering of an Alem Rabbani, nay a Marja', that many people the world over follow - and have followed for many years is in line with Islamic Ethics?  Especially on a public board?

You seem very quick to take the stand of "I am an oppressed individual, Shabbir and Jondab-Ali,  are oppressing me" - yet how much actual introspection do you do?  Do you think about what you are actually doing?  What harm you are doing to the Ummah at large and the Shia in particular?

You are now saying that threats have been made against your person and your family, my dear brother, like I have said, and people who know me will testify, I will give my last drop of blood defending a believer, and protecting someone from harm, this is my duty to my believing Brother or Sister, and my obligation to Allah, as outlined and defined in the great book by Imam as-Sajjad(A), Risalat al-Huquq (the Treatise on Rights).

While I have been coarse, I would like to appologise, like I have on many occasions, and if you look through the posts you will see clearly, for maybe my lack of etiquette and politeness, I am only trying to make people aware of the truth and defend the true Islam of Muhammad(S).  Those who know me, will vouch for me.

But my dear, my beloved brother, you must understand that the way you are acting is negligent at best, and treacherous at worst.

As you are fully aware, everything we do or say will bear witness on the "day when the souls are sorted" and we must be aware of what we do.  We know also that Allah is aware of this.

Secondly, you are unable to quit shiachat for a couple of reasons.

Firstly, if I am doing something wrong, then it is your Islamic duty as my believing brother to enjoin me towards the good, and forbid for me what is bad, this is part of the furu' ad-deen (the branches of religion) and obligatory on you.

Secondly, when working for the sake of Allah, personal pride goes out of the window, why?  Because honour and dignity are from Allah, and not from anyone else.

Allah dignifies who he wishes and he humiliates who he wishes, [b:post_uid0]based on their own actions[/b:post_uid0].  If you feel humiliated, then it is neccessary for you to do some introspection, and look into yourself, perform some self purification, and ask Allah sincerely why you are in this position?  Why have Shabbir and Jondab-Ali (a brother who has been Muslim for about 3 months) humiliated you?  How have they been able to do this?  Assuming that we have humiliated you.

I would like to finish my message with Surat al-Asr (the Chapter of Time)

In The Name of Allah, Most Mericful, the Most Compassionate.

By the Time.

Verily mankind is at a loss.

Except those who believe, and do good works, and enjoin one another to truth, and enjoin one another to patience.

Verily Allah the Most Sublime, speaks the truth.

With Salaams and Dua's


Edited By shabbirh on 1035159806

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well if it was, tell me what I said, if I see it fit, i'll apologize!  As for death threats, well it was not me man!

I am still waiting for my warnings to be taken off, i was not present to receive them!

Anyhow, whatever that has happened Ya Zahra, I really don't know u!  I usually go to Idara Jaaferiya, i really don't think thats ur usual place!

look, it's no good for u trying to say a shia shoul be like this or like that!  u can't take any1 lightly.  Some ppl r as they are, cos they have their reasons!

ayhow, get over it, the tide changes and might be in ur favour tomz!

Who saw castaway!  that was a phat film, so was Green mile!

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[b:post_uid0]Bismillah ir-Rahman ir-Rahim[/b:post_uid0]

Salaam Aleikum,

I'll keep this short.

Some [b:post_uid0]Fitnah-mongers[/b:post_uid0], whilst presenting no credible evidence to support their claims, still persist on their line of ignorance.

Only now they sink lower, still. By giving up on argument, and instead playing the Oppressed [b:post_uid0]Fitnah-monger[/b:post_uid0].

But wait, the one who creates [b:post_uid0]Fitnah[/b:post_uid0] IS the Oppressor. The one who initially attempts to [b:post_uid0]help[/b:post_uid0] their brother understand, and change his errant ways, and then seeks to reprimand him for continuing on such a line [i:post_uid0]once he [b:post_uid0]KNOWS[/b:post_uid0] it is wrong[/i:post_uid0], and then finally washes his hands of that person, since [b:post_uid0]"it is the same to them, whether you warn them or do not warn them. They will not Believe"[/b:post_uid0], is such a person who exerts himself in an effort for Truth, an Oppressor?

May the curse of Allah fall upon [b:post_uid0]all[/b:post_uid0] the Oppressors.



Edited By Jondab-Ali on 1035161535

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The only time that I have come out against you and PROVED certain things to you - is when you have insisted on creating fitneh and spreading discord regarding the validity of certain maraje'.

shabbir, u refered to me as "enemy of Allah" in the topic regarding Rafsanjani, a topic i did not post once on. Likewise the one regarding ulama, again i did not post once on it. You have absolutely no shame whatsoever and i am appalled by the way u conduct yourself. I will be frank with u. I never once said anything against your so-called wilayah, i asked a question saying is oppressing other ulama acceptable, and told u ayatollah khamenei / khomeini are not infallible. Aparently that makes me a kaffir or munafiq.

On the issue of Sayyid Fadlallah, i repeat i have recently not taken part in any discussion, but my name was mentioned more than 5 times. I will stand by the truth on this issue and will not back down on the shahada of Fatima (as). May Allah (swt) open your eyes to this.

I would like to stay on shiachat but the mere fact u continually ridicule my name (without my permission or presence) and that u regard me as a non-Muslim means i can no longer have a civil conversation with u, let alone have dinner with u!

After everything im not angry, nor do i want to insult u (i dont want that responsibility on the day of judgement). I am just sad, sad that a person such as yourself uses the methods u do to get what u want. May Allah forgive you for insulting so many.


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