Can God create anything? and everything?

[ultra-muslim]

Again, with the introduction of man, came the introduction of the concept of god. Without man, there is are no gods.

Without this Discussion Board, you don't exist.

With the introduction of Shiachat.com, came Lebstyle. Without Shiachat, there is no Lebstyle.

-MZA

[ultra-muslim]

there are many ways to look at this question:

on one hand God is limitless and eternal, and possess infinite power...

on the other hand, human "logic" says otherwise...

God, according to my first statement COULD create another God with the same amount of power if he/she so desired (because God can do ANYTHING)

Saying that God COULDNT do something based on HUMAN logic is limiting God....

Now for the sake of argument, God COULD possible create another God, but that would fly in the face of the strict islamic monotheism..

I think this question is outside of human logic.

I heartily concur with adren@lines' conclusion. This is a question out of our capacity. And to say what God can or cannot do based on what our tiny brains can shoddily piece together, is asinine.

"If it weren't for my horse, I wouldn't have spent that year in college..."

Or some such...

-MZA

[Lebstyle]

Without this Discussion Board, you don't exist.

With the introduction of Shiachat.com, came Lebstyle. Without Shiachat, there is no Lebstyle.

-MZA

Ah.... Ultra muslim...., to the countrary. You are incorrect that without www.shiachat.com Lebstyle doesn't exist because Lebstyle does exist on other message boards with different people and he speaks to them! So Lebstyle, does exist without www.shiachat.com :P He also communicates directly with...the..... OTHERS *spooky music* :P So Lebstyle does exist regardless of www.shiachat.com.

Again, im not all powerful, nor omnipotent/omnipresent... wait...maybe i am!? :blink: lol

Edited October 30, 2003 by Lebstyle

[MajiC]

Without this Discussion Board, you don't exist.

With the introduction of Shiachat.com, came Lebstyle. Without Shiachat, there is no Lebstyle.

-MZA

(salam)

Without this discussion board he does not exist......on this discussion board only! You are being specific to one realm of existence, whereas if we were to imply existence in its truest form, then he does exist indeed, you just have no knowledge of his being.

Bit like atheists, they say that God doesn't exist. They say this because they have no knowledge of the 'true' concept of God. :P

[ultra-muslim]

Without this discussion board he does not exist......on this discussion board only! You are being specific to one realm of existence, whereas if we were to imply existence in its truest form, then he does exist indeed, you just have no knowledge of his being.

Bit like atheists, they say that God doesn't exist. They say this because they have no knowledge of the 'true' concept of God. 

That was my point.

Ah.... Ultra muslim...., to the countrary. You are incorrect that without www.shiachat.com Lebstyle doesn't exist because Lebstyle does exist on other message boards with different people and he speaks to them! So Lebstyle, does exist without www.shiachat.com  He also communicates directly with...the..... OTHERS *spooky music*  So Lebstyle does exist regardless of www.shiachat.com.

Again, im not all powerful, nor omnipotent/omnipresent... wait...maybe i am!?  lol

According to your logic, you don't exist without Shiachat. You can't prove your existence. You can't disprove that with the advent of Shiachat, came Lebstyle. I've never seen you anywhere else, virtually nor actually.

-MZA

Edited November 1, 2003 by ultra-muslim

[wayfaring man]

What can't God do ?

-----------------------

It also has been stated that "God cannot lie" , for God (along with many other

absolute ideals ) , is Truth , and Truth cannot distort / pervert itself , ( or be

distorted or perverted ) , and still remain The Truth ; and The Truth is Eternal -

lies however , are temporal , for they exist only through misrepresenting the

Truth , and as such , are not on the same moral / spiritual " frequency " as The

Eternal , and are therefore " unsupported " by God , and destined to disolve from

the lack of access to The Source / Force of Life ; Or to be "slapped" back into

continuity with the Word of God by an awakening to Reality .

Futhermore , when we refer to God , Truth , Light etc . , we can only refer to our

perception / understanding of these ..... and the more accurate and complete our

perception / understanding , the more empowered / fulfilled we become ; for even

this , is the confirmation which faith unto faith , has sought , and is seeking .

May we seek , May we find , May we care , May we share , May we be the blessing

to each other which magnifies ( in the sight of both angels and man ) The Goodness

and The Glory of our Holy Creator and Gracious Sustainer . Amen .

Edited January 12, 2004 by wayfaring man

[KhadijaDana]

I agree with you "wayfaing man", God/Allah can not lie, it is not a part of His attributes. HE is the source of all that is good, He is our Protector and our Supporter. You write very well, and spoke as I would! May Allah keep you safe and increase your faith and knowledge.

Khadija

[wayfaring man]

Dear Khadija ,

I praise God/Allah for the unity in spirit which "He" affords us when we humbly seek to know and understand the Path of Truth and Way of Holiness .

The Lord God / Allah has created all things for "His" own good pleasure ; and I , as one of those things , have no greater pleasure than to fellowship in "His" Favor together with others who have been given the Revelation of Divine Love and Righteous Judgment .

Therefore I give God thanks for you , your warmth , and prayers of benevolence .

And may Allah be pleased to continue to bless and keep you in all that you say and do .

Here is how I've been given to understand ( what I refer to as ) the tenets of faith .

1. Nothing can happen unless God allows it .

2. Just because God allows something doesn't mean God approves of it .

3. But if and when God allows that which He does not approve , it can only be

because He already has a remedy in place , which will not only remove / reverse

the evil that was allowed , but will so compensate - that the unfairly bereaved and

impinged upon will be ever so glad that they endured such affliction and oppression

well .

4. Or God would not / will not allow it .

+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++

wm

[KhadijaDana]

Salaam/Peace Wayfaring Man

QOUTE

I praise God/Allah for the unity in spirit which "He" affords us when we humbly seek to know and understand the Path of Truth and Way of Holiness .

--- Do you also believe that He is One? :unsure: ;)

The Lord God / Allah has created all things for "His" own good pleasure

--- How do you think we can please Him?

and I , as one of those things , have no greater pleasure than to fellowship in "His" Favor together with others who have been given the Revelation of Divine Love and Righteous Judgment .

--- :) I am glad that you are aware that He created us. Do you believe that some of those who were given revelation were/are ALL in fellowship with those who truly and sincerely believe? What I am trying to get at is, the fact that there are those who say they believe yet they don't deep down inside where it counts. There are those who have changed the revelation from Allah swt and who openly fight those who are trying to keep God's True revelations purified and uncorrupted.

Therefore I give God thanks for you , your warmth , and prayers of benevolence .

And may Allah be pleased to continue to bless and keep you in all that you say and do .

---Thank you for your kind words...May He do the same for you, if he so Wills (Insha'Allah swt).

Here is how I've been given to understand ( what I refer to as ) the tenets of faith .

1. Nothing can happen unless God allows it .

--- I agree.

2. Just because God allows something doesn't mean God approves of it .

---{lease clarify what you mean...I do not what to jump to any conclusions that you did not intent. :unsure:

3. But if and when God allows that which He does not approve , it can only be

because He already has a remedy in place , which will not only remove / reverse

the evil that was allowed , but will so compensate - that the unfairly bereaved and

impinged upon will be ever so glad that they endured such affliction and oppression

well .

---I agree with you about that Allah has a remedy in place and the rest of this qoute. I have a question, (surprise...surprise!). I have already asked sooo many :) Do you think that God id the One who Created the evil or someone else? My example/idea is: say for example us humans!?

4. Or God would not / will not allow it .

---I also agree with you wholeheartedly with this statement.

I am in my fourth year of studies in a B.ed, so this explains why i am asking so many questions...it is hard to get the teacher out of my personality sometimes ;)

take care....

Khadija Dana

------------------------------------------------------------

Ya Allah madad

Ya Muhammad saw

Ya Ali Madad

Allah humma salli Allah Muhammadan wa a'ali Muhammad

-------------------------------------------------------------------

[KhadijaDana]

Hello Lebstyle,

This is my first time responding to you, though I have been viewing the postings on this forum and others at Shiachat.com.

Without this Discussion Board, you don't exist.

With the introduction of Shiachat.com, came Lebstyle. Without Shiachat, there is no Lebstyle.

-MZA

Ah.... Ultra muslim...., to the countrary. You are incorrect that without www.shiachat.com Lebstyle doesn't exist because Lebstyle does exist on other message boards with different people and he speaks to them! So Lebstyle, does exist without www.shiachat.com :P He also communicates directly with...the..... OTHERS *spooky music* :P So Lebstyle does exist regardless of www.shiachat.com.

---Who are the scary, spooky "OTHERS", if I may ask? Am I correct if I say Sunnis?! :unsure:

toodles,

Khadija Dana

[fatima2]

This guy in the office asked me an interesting question... sounds stupid yet at the same time its quite valid too...

Since God can create anything n everything can He create another god?

Ali

salams

impossible things can not be possible, so therefore it is impossible to answer an impossible question?

wa salams

fatima

[wayfaring man]

Greetings Khadija Dana , and all who seek to become better aquainted with the noblest of attributes ,

With the help of the Holy Spirit I will answer your questions to the extent that I am enabled .

1. Do I believe God and Allah are One ?

If by God , Allah , Yahweh , Great Spirit , etc. , we mean to describe " The Self-Existent One" : From Whom all things have come , and to Whom all things return: The Eternal One <-----> ; The Omnipotent One ; The Omniscient One ; and The Omnipresent One --- Then , Yes ! I believe God and Allah are indeed One and The Same !!

2. How can we please Him ?

Time would not allow for me to count the ways ; but for starters ... We can believe in Him , Trust in Him ; so that we can follow His Way , His Instructions . Among which is chiefly and simply put : To do unto others as we would have done unto our selves . Thus turning selfish knowledge into charitable action ! [ Isn 't God / Allah Great ! ! ] And in sensing the Wonderous Greatness of God we can hardly help but to Love , Cherish , Adore , and Regard Most Highly - THE MOST HIGH !!!

This is pleasing to God , (not because He is lonely and starved for affection , as some , who know nothing about God erroneously surmise ) ; But because Our God is a benevolent God , Who takes no pleasure in the destruction of the wicked ; but would rather see every living soul He creates come into the fullness of His Blessed Perfect Being --- i.e. God creating gods , not at all unlike Himself , only admitedly so very , very ,very much the lesser !

3. Are all who have been given revelation of God , in fellowship with those who truly / sincerely believe ? [ and those who say they believe but really don't ? ]

God is not divided , nor is He undecided , or in disagreement with Himself ; but we who see in part and understand in part , certainly sometimes are .

It is a sinful human tendency to want to claim more about ourself than is fit . But as is the case with every lie and / or sin , it was once a pure and a good thing before it was distorted / corrupted [ Now , I know Ultimate Perfection is Uncorruptible ! - Here I am refering to the not yet perfected , namely , us .]

And the good thing , that trying to make ourself look or sound better than we really are , once was ( and could still return to being )is the desire to truly be better than we have been , or now are ; especially in the sight of He Who sees all and perceives all !

4. Clarify - God allowing what he does not approve of ?

Ultimately , all of God's works will be realized as Harmonious with His Divine Will .

In the temporal realm however God allows evil to exist for a greater good which will manifest for us to see in the Eternal Realm , if not sooner . This is largely because we have been and are being created to be in God's own image / likeness , and are therefore required to posses " free will " , which necessitates that we have alternative choices other than the good , the godly , and the upright : hence ... enter Satan and his cohorts stage left [ figure of speech ]. Now we can truly posses free will , now we can truly choose for ourselves ! To be commended by God , or rejected by Him : The first being the soul which is saved ;

and the second being the soul that was lost . Now if God can do all things , and none can refuse His Authority , and He does not will that any soul be lost ; How could , or how can , any soul ever be lost ? Once again think of the vital role "free will " has in our truly being in God's likeness , and know that as much as it is displeasing to God ,

He would rather destroy us ( or in a sense - let us destroy ourselves ) , than to take our " free will " away and have us to become something along the lines of a bunch of brainwashed , unthinking , automatons who chant mechanical praises and lack both the independent mind to appreciate the choice of serving God , and the individual heart which understands the unspeakable joy of abiding in God's Holy Presence : therefore God will in no way force us to accept or believe even the smallest truth ; but He sure can put forth some mighty testimonies , which are quite convincing to all but the vilest and most depraved among us [ no offence intended - for I have some times in my life been both vile and depraved ] - but praise God for His Abundant Longsuffering and Superbly Sufficient Mercy and Grace -- and No ! I' m not implying sin is okay , or is without it's negative consequence ... for indeed it is something which can bring about our downfall , and cause our undoing . There is however Hope with the living , and few of us have ever gone so far as to be unforgivable , ( if indeed we truly repent ! )

This is how I have been given to understand , if you think you know better ,I'll consider your words ; but keep in mind that the True Teacher must reside within us , if ever we are to make sense of our life and our world ; our God and our purpose .

Let us not be followers of men , but of God ! Having trouble ? Ask the Lord to come inside , but know this , he likes to do a lot of renovation and remodelling ; but if that's what we want - that's what we'll get ! ( I can feel Him tearing down some walls within me at times -- can you ? )

Peace -------> wm

Edited January 13, 2004 by wayfaring man

[KhadijaDana]

Hello to you as well,

Man I must has given the impression that I was some kind of "all-knowing" person... :D

I apologise if I offended you in any way or made it seem as though I have all of the answers. Man oh man...that is Only for Allah swt.

I have and still agree with basically everything you have written...I have nothing to add in this topic for now...at least. I am aware -most definitely now- that my words were taken very literally...as though I had "a bone to pick!" about everything you has said.

I is always better to get confirmation before stepping into the troubled world of misunderstandings.

I am very glad that you believe in the Oneness of Allah swt...I asked you this question and the others to see how much you were open and sincere in your beliefs and interest.

I didn't want to fall into the trap of believing too quickly what you had written beforehand. I have had at least a few people who were "playing" along with me in my past.

I in no way believe that man is to be worshipped...if anything we should not get our heads too filled up with air! After all, look at what we are doing to both ourselves and All of the creation that God has done!

take care, God Willing

[wayfaring man]

Khadija ,

My apologies if I came on too strong . Within the climate of debate it is easy to feel a bit on the defense . Our time on earth is short and yet we are causing considerable damage to our selves and the earth , and meekness is much therefore needed - once again - my apologies .

"And the nations were angry , and thy wrath is come , and the time of the dead , that they should be judged , and that thou should give reward unto thy servants the prophets , and to thy saints , and to them that fear thy name , small and great ; and should destroy them which destroy the earth . "

Revelation 11 :18

Sincerely wm -------- See also added post on top of next page .

Edited January 14, 2004 by wayfaring man

[wayfaring man]

Oh and I just realized that I did not address the question -

" Is it God who creates the evil , or someone else ? "

The safest answer is , of course to say, some one else ; but if God sees all - from beginning to end , and He created the ones who created the evil , then did God , by extension , also create the evil ?

No not exactly , because he gave his creatures ( us - the angels ) free will , so we cannot say God made me sin , simply because He allowed for the choice to sin , or not to sin .

But of course there are other possible meanings for evil .

When a person , or people suffer because of their foolishness , it is an evil consequence , which God has provided for , with the intention of putting a wake-up call in our path of self-destruction . In this sense it may be said God creates evil : but only when necessary for some greater good !

May we heed His Voice . wm

[Hizbullah]

(bismillah)

(salam)

I didn't read all the posts above.

Replying to the question in the initial post: Since Allah is able to do anything, can He create another god?

Answer: Allah is able to do anyTHING… true. However, the creation of another god is not a THING. In Islam, we believe that Allah(swt) is wajib al wujood(ie: has to exist. Nobody other than Allah can be described as wajib al wujood) and other THINGS are mumkin al wojood(potentially existing). The creation of another god is not even mumkin al wojood, so it does not exist and will not exist and this makes it impossible to exist. Hence, it is not a THING.

And Allah remains as He always was; able to do anything.

I hope that was clear

wa salam

[Lebstyle]

Salam

Hmmmm well I think YES god can create another GOD - but the question is WHY wud he???

My question - Allah is everlasting and has been ever-living - 'how did god come into existence'? I feel bad for asking it, but some threads on the forum have made me think more abt this question! My mum always says - dont ask WHY - sum things we will NEVER Understand or be able to comprehend.

ws

Ridah

Hmmmm well I think YES god can create another GOD - but the question is WHY wud he???

Because he'll get lonely! lol... duh! :angel:

Imagine for billions of years u lived alone? lol only having people WORSHIP rather then have someone there beside you to share and experience...

god must be so lonely :(

[KhadijaDana]

Quote from "Wayfaring man"

No not exactly , because he gave his creatures ( us - the angels ) free will , so we cannot say God made me sin , simply because He allowed for the choice to sin , or not to sin .

---This is very true....OF course since we have free will, it isa up to us to decide which path to take. It is best to take the "Straight Path"! If we choose the wrong one, that is our choice and not God's. Thus, as you said below...if we happen to be foolish, especially quite a few of us in one area or another, HE might decide to do something to wake us up! :D Preferably we would do so before it gets too late!

HE the All-Mighty and All-Merciful is like a cup of coffee when we need to be woken up. Or a cup of tea...depending on the needs and tastebuds!

take care, God Willing

[KhadijaDana]

Salam

Hmmmm well I think YES god can create another GOD - but the question is WHY wud he???

My question - Allah is everlasting and has been ever-living - 'how did god come into existence'? I feel bad for asking it, but some threads on the forum have made me think more abt this question! My mum always says - dont ask WHY - sum things we will NEVER Understand or be able to comprehend.

ws

Ridah

Hmmmm well I think YES god can create another GOD - but the question is WHY wud he???

Because he'll get lonely! lol... duh! :angel:

Imagine for billions of years u lived alone? lol only having people WORSHIP rather then have someone there beside you to share and experience...

god must be so lonely :(

Hello there,

Quote:

Imagine for billions of years u lived alone? lol only having people WORSHIP rather then have someone there beside you to share and experience...

god must be so lonely :(

---He should not be too lonely sincce HE has the angels with him, the martyrs, the saints, and the God-fearing people to speak to :D as they speak to HIM. He is of the Best Attributes and Names...May He help us to relieve our sufferings and those of All of HIS CReation!

Haideri!

---Ya Ali Madad!

[ali_ghaida]

very simple

The answer is no because anything created can not be God

God must be the first cause

[ali_ghaida]

You are attributing human traits (loneliness) to God.

God cannot be lonely.

[aqeelfair4u]

Insh'Allah this might help. Its a post I made a while ago on a thread treating a rather similar issue:

One finds a perfect answer to this very question in a beautiful hadith Ayatullah Jawadi Amuli quotes in "A Commentary on Theistic Arguments":

"A rationally impossible thing cannot have an external extension. Therefore, when Imam Ja'far al-Sadiq, peace be with him, was asked about God's power to place the world in an egg-shell, he responded, 'Although God's power is infinite, nevertheless, what you are asking is a nothing." (pp. 219-220)

A "nothing" (la shai) is a rational impossibility. Allah cannot do what is logically impossible - He cannot be unjust, create a stone he cannot lift, make 2+2=5, etc. Yet this does not really contradict the fact that Allah is All Powerful. Allah has power over all things - but in these cases there is no "thing" for Him to have Power over (i.e. there is no object of power present). Allah can indeed do anything. However, a rational impossibility is a "nothing," and "nothing" obviously does not and cannot fall under the category "anything." This was (and still is) a long-standing debate between the Sunni Ashari theologians and the philosophers. The Asharis said Allah's Absolute Power means all options are open and all outcomes are possible. Thus in their view Allah can be unjust, create a stone he cannot lift, make 2+2=5, etc. The philosophers disagreed. They said Allah's Absolute Power means "If He wills it, it will happen; if not, not." Thus, ***IF*** Allah willed to be unjust (or create a stone he could not lift, make 2+2=5, etc.), it would happen. However, it is ABSOLUTELY IMPOSSIBLE He would ever so will.

Here is another explanation from the Ahlul Bayt Aalim Network archive:

QUESTION:

I was asked once about the ability of Allah, and I could not find a

convincing answer for the question in the books I know and have looked at.

His question was , since Allah is able to do everything, can He create some

thing big that He can not carry?. And if He can, how is He able to do

everything?. And if He cannot, how can He not carry this thing while He is

able to do everything?

I have also heard in one Islamic lecture, that its impossible for Allah to

make two opposite different things like day and night occur at the same

time, I could not understand this point clearly. Can you guide me to some

books that answer these kind of questions?.

One last thing, is there any problems thinking about these kind of questions

, or it is something over the human ability of thinking?.

ANSWER:

My dear fellow Muslim, the question raised in your mail is a very common

question among some people, even in university class rooms. I have come

across many different believers who have challenged by their atheist

philosophy instructors in universities with very similar questions. These

questions are basically designed to show contradictions in the religious

conception of God. What they are doing is constructing a fictional God and

then criticising it. Their God has no reality- it exists only in their mind.

To show you what extent is the Islamic understanding of God is

sophisticated; suffice it to mention that a scholar such as Allameh

Tabatabai(rh) used to say

that "one has to spend forty years studying to get some understanding of

LA ILLAHA ILLA- Allah (there is no god but Allah)".

Having said this, let me try to respond to your question in general terms,

hoping you find it helpful.

First of all you should know that nothing has come or will come into being

from absolute nothingness. If you hear that we say God brought us into

being from "'udum" (nothingness), this is a relative nothingness. In other

words, we did not exist in our present form previously, but we used to

have other forms of beings. For that purpose nothing will ever disappear

totally from the scene of Being.

Secondly, if we go back in the chain of being as much as possible, we will

end up in our original state of being in God's knowledge. These states of

being are called " a'ian-e- sabete" by some scholars. They are internal

beings and have some sorts of existence in God, but to have external

existence, they have to be externalized by God. Creation is nothing but

externalizations of these "Sowar 'Ilmi" (internal forms).

Thirdly, These "Sowar" (Forms) have their own conditions, requirements, or

limitations. God's creation is "J'al-e" (establishment of ?) of these

forms in the external world. In other words, God does not make X, for

example, X or Y, God puts (to use a simple term) X outside in the external

world. This observation has a very important implication for your

question. That is, God's power is over things not over nothingness. In the

Holy Quran we read that Allah "'ala kul-i shi-n qadir" (has power over

every thing).

Our ideas of logical contradictions (such as your example of DAY and NIGHT

co-existing at the same time in the same place and with other logical

unities) are only ideas in our mind, they are not things in themselves. Yes

as ideas they are things and they exists in our minds but as externalities

they are nothing. Abosulte Nothingness is not subject of God power, not

because God is not powerful but because there is nothing to exercise power

over.

Power must have an object. If one asks why God does not create those object

in the first place, we should remind that person what creation is.

For that matter, read my first point again till you fully understand it.

As I noted, we must first know what our conceptions of God and creation are

and then attempt to see if there is a contradiction involved. I know this is

not an easy task but it is worth the effort if you are interested. I also

know that my respons does not answer all you questions, it may even give

rise to new questions for you, but I like you to know that I was also

bothered once with similar questions, it takes time to reach to a better

understanding of our belief system as Muslims, but today I have come to the

conclusion that these questions are not any challenge to our belief to God.

On the contrary, we find out the richness of our teaching, especially in

Shia' when we are confronted with these types of questions from non-believers.

With Regards

Mohammad

 

so Allah is limited by what is considered rational in this world. Allah can't create a stone he cannot lift, can't make 2+2=5, can't make night and day at the same time. it seems to me that god has created this world (if indeed he actully "created" it considering he is bound and powerless to the rules of it) to limit his power and control over nature. that was my whole point, god has a limit, even if the limit is rational it means he is limited. it seems that "nothing" is gods limit, god can't control nothing, it is beyond his power. it does not matter how much you pray, believe or need of Allah to do something with nothing or with an irrational thing, he won't be able to do it even if he wanted too

 

and what believers are doing is constructing a fictional god and then worshiping him as completly logical and contradiction free. Allah has no reality, he exists only in your mind. i will go a step further, he exists in your mind because you need him. without Allah you are powerless, limited, weak and alone. we created god because we want protection, reason for existing, reassurance that even if we or someone we love dies he exists in some way, and didn't die for nothing. we want to know that what we are doing is good without question because morality in the real world is not so simple, and we want to know that our enemies will be stopped because we can't stop them ourselves.

you need god, because in a godless world to you life isn't worth living. try living one day as if when you die you will never see your family again, try donating to charity as if you are not going to be rewarded for that by Allah later on, try killing knowing that there is no reason to do so besides your own reasons, that no one told you you should do it, besides yourself. all those things are infinitly harder to do for atheists because they have to deal with them alone. atheists don't go suicide bombing, atheists don't go kidnap and rape 200 teen girls because in times of war it's ok, atheists don't go and burn schools of children trapping and killing them. because atheists don't have a god to rely on to know it's ok, atheists have to know for themselves it's wrong.

 

so have humans existed forever like you calim god has? before we were "born" we existed in some form since forever and will exist forever after. the power reserved for Allah is now in humans. maybe Allah didn't create us, maybe we have existed without being created. therefore we are our own masters, god merely changed us, but he didn't create us. i have existed for at least as long as god, therefore god has no right over me that i don't have over him.

 

i would like to see a chart showing the whole history of humans that when we trace it can show that our first existece was god's knowledge. somehow i think such a chart doesn't exist and if it does, is extremly inaccurate.

also, he says i existed as an internal being before "creation" where god turned me into an external being. by what right? did i agree to be part of his "creation"? did i want to turn into external from internal? it also seems to me that after "creation" Allah has made us all limited by nothingness and irrationality. being an internal being as old as god probably makes me as powerful as god. he felt threatened so he did "creation" where humans are weaker and worship him and he is the strongest and most powerful. there was a time where humans were as old as god and as ever existing as god.

 

i will finish by showing you human machines that managed to observe irrational behaviour and "nothingness". the double slit experiment fires an electron between two slits, if the electron is a particle he can only go through one slit at a time, if he is a wave he can go through both. the electron will go through both slits as a wave but will hit the wall in one place, as a particle. also if you put an "observer" (a measuring device) on the slits he will only go through one slit as a particle.

therefore an electron is both a particle and a wave at the same time. this video explains it (please tell me if you have problems watching it):

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wsq7qXr9Hl0

if an electron can go through two slits at the same time, it means he exists in two places at the same time. mathematically this also means he can exist in no places at the same time and in all places at the same time. there, surprisingly enough, have been no evidence to show that this is wrong. albert einstein was against this idea very strongly (his famous quote of "in my opinion, god does not play dice" and "do you really think the moon is not there when you are not looking?". to which niels boher replied "einstein, don't tell god what to do!"). einstein created a theory called quantum entanglement that becase it was false, proved quantum mechanics false. unfourtanatly for him we recently proved that quantum entanglement is true, also proving einstein wrong and quantum mechanics right. so objects can exist in multiple places and no places and all places and it all works and can be shown in a lab.

this is probably not going to be the last time i say this, but remember what you wrote me as best as you can, etch it into your memory. because when islam will accept quantum mechanics and agree that nothingness is usable and irrational is the way the world works i will tell you again. at first they tell you it's nonesense, then they tell you it's blasphemy, then they tell you they've known it all along. did islam know all along that nothingness is proven as existing and usable and irrational is the rule the governs the atomic world?

 

 

[Barabika]

The answer is quite simple.  When we say that God is all-powerful, we mean that He can produce or actualize everything that is in point of existence possible.  Absurd scenarios and impossible circumstances are necessarily and inherently nonexistent.  It is impossible for them to come into existence, because their very nature involves contradiction.  In other words, the reason that God cannot carry out the said scenarios is not on account of the limitation of His Power but is rather due to the inherent impossibility of those scenarios.

 

Source

[ShiaHashmi]

there cant be any thing like GOD so even if GOD creates another GOD he wont be a GOD, because GOD is ONE.

 

Wallah ho alam.

[Guest Solomon]

 

Yes, Allah is able to elevate one to the level of Godhood, or create a God, or elevate one to His Level, to be His Equal. In this case, such a person would occupy the rank of being the Entrusted Servant of Allah, Entrusted with Monotheism, Entrusted with keeping the Oneness of Allah intact. To be entrusted with Tawheed means that Allah will trust this person to never disobey Him.

The shahaadah: "There is no god worthy of worship except Allah". This statement does not negate the possibility of there being other gods, but rather points towards the exclusivity of Allah's worthiness of worship. Allah is the only God that is worthy of worship, even if there are any other gods. He has fashioned mankind exactly in His Image, because He wanted them to join Him and be with Him in His realm, the realm of ascension, عالم الاستواء. If you want this, all you need to do is ask Him, and He will accept your request. That is the Kingdom of Allah.