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In the Name of God بسم الله

Fatah - A Question

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(salam)

WHo give a s(*& what a sunni believe about Abu Talib (as). Imam Ali (as) already said: I am the qaseem (separated of the fire and heaven, and my father will be in fire?

Bro, leaven them alone, and let them think whatever they want to think.

A quick note, a believer is in his heart and not in his doing. ABu - talib did was a believer, therefore, never thought of making any doings like the others.

I hope u understand.

(salam)

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Guest -Fatima-

"To these proposals of Abu Talib, the Quraish agreed upon to inspect the

document, and to their ashtonishment they found it worm eaten; only the

name of Allah was still there and no more, and they said that it was an

enchantment of Muhammad (pbuh&HF). Abu Talib enraged upon the Quraish and

demanded that the document be declared void and the ban be removed. Then he

clutched to one end of the cloth of the Kaaba, as he raised the second hand

in the air and prayed

O Lord ! Help us against those, who have subjugated us to torture ...

Sunni references :

- Tabaqat of Ibne Sa'ad, v 1 p 183

- Seerah of Ibn Hisham, v 1 p 399 and p 404

- Aiwanul Ikbar by Qutaiybah, v 2 p 151

- Tareekhe Yaqoobi, v 2 p 22

- Al Istiab, v 2 p 57

- Khazantul Ihbab by Khateeb Baghdadi, v 1 p 252

- History of Ibn Katheer, v 3 p 84

- Al Khasais al Kubra, v 1 p 151

- Al Seerah Al Halebiyyah, v 1 p 286"

Fatah, ur own books are full of proofs of Abu Talib's faith, yet u say history claims him to be a kafir, so r u saying that ur AUTHENTIC books are contradictory?

Edited by {-Fatima-}
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Guest -Fatima-

It is reported in the book of al-Bayhaqi (Dalail al-Nubuwwah) that when Abu

Talib was at the point of death, he was seen moving his lips. al Abbas (the

Prophet's uncle) bent down to listen to what he was saying. he then lifted

his head and said:

By Allah, he has uttered the word which you requested,

O Messenger of Allah!.

Sunni references:

- Dalail al-Nubuwwah by al-Bayhaqi, vol 2 p 101

- Ibn Hisham, Cairo Edition, p146 as quoted in Siratun Nabi, by Shibli

Numani, v1, pp 219-220

Also in the same book, it is related that the Prophet (saw) stood at the

funeral of Abu Talib and said:

You have indeed acted kindly to your next of kin;

may you be well rewarded, O uncle.

Sunni references:

- Dalail al-Nubuwwah by al-Bayhaqi, vol 2 p 101

- Ibid, vol 2 p 103

- History of Khateeb Baghdadi, vol 13 p 196

- History of Ibn Katheer, vol 3 p 125

- al Isaba, vol 4 p 116

- Tadhkirat Sibt, p 2

- History of Yaquubi, vol 2 p26

It is not my belief that count but what history record that count and in history Abu Talib did non believer.

Wait, I think we should rephrase that, it's not HISTORY that says this, infact its a small number like you, the blinded ones that say this

Edited by {-Fatima-}
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You truly are a super idiot Fartah.

Cant you read?

A simple YES or NO answer.

Doh!

We die hard believer have been called many names over the centuries, but then it is believer like us who pervail in the end. :D Hence HATAF=FATAH

HATAF= Sword of Prophet(saww)

FATAH=Victory

For a person who cannot answer a simple Yes/No question- talk is nothing short of futile with you.

Go run to taravi prayers before umer starts bleating.....

Edited by poiuyt
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Now carefull there, he might close the topic ! :rolleyes:

No no no not this one atleast member can understand and debate this topic I only close my own topics which member cant answer as no one can deny the truth can they :D :D

I know it is hard for the membber to understand a phylosphical answer so I will be direct and see If you all can understand the answer I will make it a litmus test for the members, My answer in the last post was a postive yes ?

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I know it is hard for the membber to understand a phylosphical answer

Sorry Fatah, I don't know what phylosophical is. There is a word in English, I believe its philosophical. I think thats the one you are looking for.

btw, I'm not a PhD in english either, but for discussion, one should at least have a reasonable communciation level in a language.

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fatah...i asked you a SERIOUS question about your beliefs, and you turned it around. I ask you for one last time and if i do not get a one word answer from you. this topic will be closed and will forever remain an example of the devious Nasibi's who dodge straight forward questions with their BS :).

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Fatah......you seem to be replying to all other topics with the exception of this one...Typical...LOL.

Isnt it amazing you have people on this forum who claim to have mastered the Anglo language of caucassian race, and you all still fail to under stand a simple and straight forward answer.

If you want to close the topic its your choice I have made my statement you can continue with your thoughts or close the topic option is there to taking, but my answer is what you desired, so look into your heart and ask the question as to how a muslim response to this question and you will find your quest has ended.

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Ok Fatah. Lets play it this way.

It is not my belief that count but what history record that count and in history Abu Talib did non believer.

So you believe he died a Kaafir.

Tell me. Rasool (pbuh)'s Marriage. Can the Nikkah be read by a Kaafir? :)

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Isnt it amazing you have people on this forum who claim to have mastered the Anglo language of caucassian race, and you all still fail to under stand a simple and straight forward answer.

If you want to close the topic its your choice I have made my statement you can continue with your thoughts or close the topic option is there to taking, but my answer is what you desired, so look into your heart and ask the question as to how a muslim response to this question and you will find your quest has ended.

And before you go off on one of your idiotic tantrums and start giving us lectures on the english language, what bit of the below quoted didn't you understand???

Simple question requires a simple answer. Yes or no.

Please don't close the topic fatah :lol:

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Ok Fatah. Lets play it this way.

So you believe he died a Kaafir.

Tell me. Rasool (pbuh)'s Marriage. Can the Nikkah be read by a Kaafir? :)

I will just give you a preview of what to expect as it is getting late here where I am, it is not up to you nick pick things join them and try to make something out of it, which is not there, Islam was revealed over a period of 23 yrs, there were many thing which were permissable in Islam during the makkah phase of Islam for example, Umm Mul Momineen Sayeda Hazrat Khadija tul Kubra (ra) till the time she died Nimaz-e-Janaza was not revealed, so she was buried without last Islamic rite as we know today.

Answer to your question lies in my question( may Allah forgive me for any disrespect unintended or intended)

Q. Did she die Muslim or kafir (naouzobillah)?

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(salam),

Answer to your question lies in my question( may Allah forgive me for any disrespect unintended or intended)

You answered my question with a question. Its strange that i ask you simple questions which require simple answers but yet i get these dicieving tactics from you.

The Shias do not doubt the Imaan of Khadijah (as) nor Rasool (pbuh) (as the ones who did declared him dilarious on his deathbed)

She passed away Muslim Alhamdulillah. :) I was asking for your beliefs in this matter. Not any of ours.

Mowla (as) Waris.

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Why do u guys all gang up on him. u should remember he is the only sunni trying to defend in the whole shia chat. and mr Batil ka Katil plz dont ask such questions with only yes or no imposed on it. There are some question that have more to it then a simple yes or no. If Islamic question could have been answered in yes and no ppl dont have to go to any masjid all they have to do is prepare a computer software to answer their questions there fore dont make other ppl look bad and listen what they have to say with yes or no it wont hurt u.

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Why do u guys all gang up on him. u should remember he is the only sunni trying to defend in the whole shia chat. and mr Batil ka Katil plz dont ask such questions with only yes or no imposed on it. There are some question that have more to it then a simple yes or no. If Islamic question could have been answered in yes and no ppl dont have to go to any masjid all they have to do is prepare a computer software to answer their questions there fore dont make other ppl look bad and listen what they have to say with yes or no it wont hurt u.

(salam),

Maybe you are new to the forum.

He is not the only Sunni here.

and mr Batil ka Katil plz dont ask such questions with only yes or no imposed on it.

Why not? Did the question not need a simple answer bro/sis? Maybe you could answer the question for me :).

Wa'salaam

Asad Ali.

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salaam alaikum

there is a difference of opnion whether abu talib died a kufar half or more say yes as far as i know but the other stay quite and a minorityor couple of people lol say yes he was. but as i will say to my shia folks u always try to show bukhari when it suites ur nafs a desires now see hwat hadeeth had bukhari recorded for uit? or do i have to paste it in this room :). and if you wanta more detailed explanation of it then read the sirat ur rasul by shibili numan vol 1 i think if i still remeber.

i dont really want to continue this topic but the hadeeths and tareek is witness to it and the statement of the prophet is there as well. abbas said he heard his lips moving but what ive heard to counter that is that, when abbas hjead thAT WAS HE A MUSLIM? but i dont want to get into this debate so i say allahu alam and barak Allah feekum

wassalaam

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She passed away Muslim Alhamdulillah.

This is the answer to your question, before the revelation of Islam it does not make the difference who read the Nikah and this does not make the reader of the Nikah a believer. Abu Talib as per most of the narrations I read died a non believer.

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OK Fatah. Like a brother explained to me yesterday...

This is your Sunni logic..

Someone who brought the prophet (pbuh) up, someone who cared for him, someone who put his own son in rasool (pbuh)'s bed knowing that the Kufar were thirsty for his blood...Died a Kaafir...

Yet Someone who fought the prophet for several years, the one who celebrated at the death of Hamza (ra), the one who Ali (as) turned down when he came to "rebel" against Mr Bakr, the one who WAS A KAAFIR...but became Muslim to save his life...is a MUSLIM?

Wah Ji Wah :).

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OK Fatah. Like a brother explained to me yesterday...

This is your Sunni logic..

Someone who brought the prophet (pbuh) up, someone who cared for him, someone who put his own son in rasool (pbuh)'s bed knowing that the Kufar were thirsty for his blood...Died a Kaafir...

Yet Someone who fought the prophet for several years, the one who celebrated at the death of Hamza (ra), the one who Ali (as) turned down when he came to "rebel" against Mr Bakr, the one who WAS A KAAFIR...but became Muslim to save his life...is a MUSLIM?

Wah Ji Wah :).

The answer is very simple" to whome ever Allah guides"

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Bismillah

Ya Ali Madad!!

Asalam Alikum..

Now here is an impossible task that I am about to perform, i-e, to ask Fatah to go and reserch a bit..

Mr. Nasibi (FATAH) : Go read about how the guardian of Bibi Maryam (A.S) was chosen, and then think for a bit, atleast u can try to, and try to realise why was such care shown towards choosing a guardian of Bibi Maryam (A.S).. When U have realised teh answer, then think, Prophet Mohammed (P.B.U.H&F) is the MOLA of even Bibi Maryam (A.S).. She (A.S) was indeed a great lady, but compared to Prophet Mohammed (P.B.U.H&F), she has no rank.... If such care was shown while choosing a guardian for Bibi mMaryam (A.S), how much care would have been actually gone towards choosing a guardian for Prophet Mohammed (p.B.U.H&F)..

Wa Salam..

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