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wahashimi

Should Shias have their own State in Pakistan?

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http://www.atimes.com/atimes/South_Asia/EJ08Df08.html

Shi'ite warning shot in Pakistan

By B Raman

When the Shi'ites of Pakistan are angry, the Pakistani army and its Inter-Services Intelligence (ISI) tremble.

Because they have not forgotten what happened in 1988. Faced with a revolt by the Shi'ites of the Northern Areas (NA - Gilgit and Baltistan) of Jammu & Kashmir (J&K), under occupation by the Pakistan army, for a separate Shi'ite state called the Karakoram, the Pakistan army transported Osama bin Laden's tribal hordes into Gilgit and let them loose on the Shi'ites. They went around massacring hundreds of Shi'ites.

The resulting Shi'ite anger most likely led to the death of military ruler General Zia ul-Haq in a plane crash in August 1988, the end of the military regime and the subsequent assassination of Lieutenant-General Fazle Haq, a retired army officer, close to Zia and hated by the Shi'ites because of his suspected role in the assassination of a respected Shi'ite leader. The inquiry report on the crash of Zia's plane has not been released by the Pakistan army, but many in Pakistan believe that the crash was caused by a Shi'ite airman from Gilgit, who was a member of the crew.

The army and the ISI imposed an effective iron curtain around the NA after the genocide of the Shi'ites of the area by bin Laden's hordes. As a result, the world was ignorant of the extent of the anti-Shi'ite carnage until the Herald, the monthly journal of the prestigious Dawn group of Karachi, pierced the curtain in its issue of May, 1990. It was helped by leaks from a somewhat tamed ISI, then headed by the late Major-General Kallue, a retired officer of the army close to the late Zulfiquar Ali Bhutto, who had been hand-picked from retirement by Benazir Bhutto after she came to power in an attempt (since proved futile) to reform the ISI.

The Herald wrote, "In May,1988, low-intensity political rivalry and sectarian tension ignited into full-scale carnage as thousands of armed tribesmen from outside Gilgit district invaded Gilgit along the Karakoram Highway. Nobody stopped them. They destroyed crops and houses, lynched and burnt people to death in the villages around Gilgit town. The number of dead and injured was put in the hundreds. But numbers alone tell nothing of the savagery of the invading hordes and the chilling impact it has left on these peaceful valleys."

Now the Shi'ites of Pakistan are angry again and on the warpath. This is evident from the daring assassination of Maulana Azam Tariq, the head of the anti-Shi'ite Sunni extremist Sipah-e-Sahaba Pakistan (SSP) in Islamabad, Pakistan's capital, on October 6.

They have many grounds for anger against Azam Tariq - for the role of the SSP in the massacre of hundreds of Hazara Shi'ites of Afghanistan before September 11 because they were sympathetic to the Northern Alliance of Afghanistan; for the SSP's proximity to bin Laden's al-Qaeda and the International Islamic Front (IIF); for its targeted killing of dozens of Shi'ite doctors and other intellectuals in Karachi since President General Pervez Musharraf came to power in October1999; and for its massacre of the Gilgitis of Karachi and the Hazara and other Shi'ites of Balochistan since the beginning of this year.

The latest incident of massacre of Shi'ites took place in Karachi on October 3 when unidentified gunmen, suspected to be from the SSP, attacked a bus carrying employees of the Space and Upper Atmosphere Research Commission, killing at least six people and wounding eight. All the injured and four of the dead were Shi'ites, while two – the bus driver Raza Ali and a Pakistan army soldier Mohammad Rafiq – were Sunnis. The Shi'ites of Karachi have viewed this incident as a continuation of earlier massacres in Karachi and Balochistan and feel that the SSP has embarked on anti-Shi'ite carnage in different parts of the country due to a suspicion that officers of the US's Federal Bureau of Investigation, now based in Pakistan, have been using Shi'ites as human agents in their hunt for bin Laden and the dregs of the al-Qaeda and the IIF.

While the ISI and the army have remained silent on who is responsible for the anti-Shi'ite massacres since the beginning of this year, police officers in Karachi say that the Lashkar-e-Jhangvi (LEJ), the militant wing of the SSP, the Harkat-ul-Mujahideen al-Alami (HUM-AA) and the Harkat-ul- Jihad-al-Islami (HUJI) have formed a new outfit called 313, which has been operating on behalf of the IIF. According to them, while its attacks are presently directed at Shi'ites, it is likely to target American and other Western lives and interests soon. All three are members of the IIF.

It has not yet been established who was responsible for the assassination of Azam Tariq, but the needle of suspicion points to members of a new, as yet unidentified Shi'ite terrorist organization. It is seen as an act of reprisal for the earlier massacres of Shi'ites in Balochistan and Sindh.

The Shi'ites have cause for anger against Musharraf, too. He banned on August 14, 2001, the SSP and the Tehriq-e-Jaffria Pakistan (TEJ), a Shi'ite organization, after declaring them terrorist organizations. He further banned on January 15, 2002, the LEJ and the Sipah Mohammad, the militant wing of the TEJ. Shi'ites complain that while the ban against their organizations have been enforced strictly, the bans on the SSP and the LEJ have not been.

Surprisingly, and much to the anger of Shi'ites, Musharraf facilitated the election of Azam Tariq to the National Assembly in October last year by ordering the withdrawal of cases pending against him under the Anti-Terrorism Act. Azam Tariq denied any association with the SSP, and announced the formation of a new organization called the Millat-e-Islamia Pakistan, but the Shi'ites believe that it is the SSP, which is now functioning under the new name to circumvent the ban, and that Azam Tariq continued to direct the activities of the SSP and the LEJ from his safe sanctuary as a member of the National Assembly.

Are there any signs of the Shi'ite anger turning against the army, with unpredictable consequences for Musharraf and his military rule? None yet, but one has to watch carefully.

B Raman is Additional Secretary (ret), Cabinet Secretariat, Government of India, and presently director, Institute For Topical Studies, Chennai; former member of the National Security Advisory Board of the Government of India. E-Mail: corde@vsnl.com. He was also head of the counter-terrorism division of the Research & Analysis Wing, India's external intelligence agency, from 1988 to August, 1994.

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Because they have not forgotten what happened in 1988. Faced with a revolt by the Shi'ites of the Northern Areas (NA - Gilgit and Baltistan) of Jammu & Kashmir (J&K), under occupation by the Pakistan army, for a separate Shi'ite state called the Karakoram, the Pakistan army transported Osama bin Laden's tribal hordes into Gilgit and let them loose on the Shi'ites. They went around massacring hundreds of Shi'ites.

is this true?????????????? shias in pakistan revolted agenst the central govt! actually im not surprised.........we all know how anti-shia Zia woz......

and musharaf was also responsible for those massacrs, suprising so many shia like him.

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(bismillah)

(salam)

Yes, the only way to end Shi'ah/Sunni violence is to partition Pakistan. Give the province of Sindh to the Shi'ahs and let the Sunnis have the rest of Pakistan. Without Sindh feeding the rest of Pakistan, the new Sunni state will be at the mercy of the Shi'ah nation of Sindh in less than a year.

I nominate Talib Jauhery for president of the new Shi'ah country :D

Edited by Ali786

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(bismillah)

(salam)

musharraf woz responsible for the massacre of shias????? 

Not only did he kill Shi'ahs but he's one of the main people responsible for creating Sipah-e-Sahaba:

http://www.hvk.org/hvk/articles/0102/71.ht...990.VINCLUDEFIX

"In 1988, there was a violent uprising of the Shias in Gilgit, which was ruthlessly suppressed by Musharraf, who was given the task of dealing with the revolt by Zia-ul-Haq. Musharraf had a large number of Sunni Pashtun tribesmen from the Federally-Administered Tribal Areas (FATA) led by Osama bin Laden brought into Gilgit. They carried out a massacre of the Shias in the NA as well as the adjoining NWFP areas. It is believed by many in Pakistan that the crash of the aircraft in which Zia was travelling from Bahawalpur in August 1988 resulting in his death was caused by a Shia airman from Gilgit sympathetic to the TJP in retaliation for this massacre.

To keep the Shias of Gilgit under control, Musharraf encouraged the the SSP, which had come into existence in the Punjab in the early 1980s at the instance of the Inter-Services Intelligence (ISI), to extend its activities amongst the Sunni population of Gilgit and to politically organise them against the the TJP. Since then, there have frequently been clashes between the TJP and the SSP followers in Gilgit, the latest outbreak of such violent incidents having taken place in June, 2001, before Musharraf's visit to India for the summit talks with Mr.A.B.Vajpayee, the Indian Prime Minister.

The SSP, which, as stated above, originally came into existence in the Punjab province of Pakistan and spread from there to Sindh, was funded and used by the ISI and the Saudi intelligence for dealing with the Shias in Pakistan and for assisting the Sunni Balochis in the areas of Iran adjoining Pakistan's Balochistan province."

Death to Musharraf!! :angry: :angry:

Edited by Ali786

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I nominate Talib Jauhery for president of the new Shi'ah country 

I second.

But how would people see him on TV? :P :P :P :P

Edited by YouthOfAli

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(salam)

Bro Talib you mean? on this board? .. I'd vote for him too :) lol

looooooooooooooooooooooooool

Bro Ali786 was referring to Maulana Talib Jauhari of Pakistan.

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B Raman is Additional Secretary (ret), Cabinet Secretariat, Government of India, and presently director, Institute For Topical Studies, Chennai; former member of the National Security Advisory Board of the Government of India. E-Mail: corde@vsnl.com. He was also head of the counter-terrorism division of the Research & Analysis Wing, India's external intelligence agency, from 1988 to August, 1994.

It's the views of an Indian, an Indian who is head of the counter-terrorism division , Obviously he works against Kashmiri mujahedeen and is a lier. I don't trust him and I don't care whatever he says :angry:

Khuda Hafiz

Edited by Syeda 82

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(bismillah)

(salam)

Yes, the only way to end Shi'ah/Sunni violence is to partition Pakistan. Give the province of Sindh to the Shi'ahs and let the Sunnis have the rest of Pakistan. Without Sindh feeding the rest of Pakistan, the new Sunni state will be at the mercy of the Shi'ah nation of Sindh in less than a year.

I nominate Talib Jauhery for president of the new Shi'ah country :D

Partition wont solve the problem..

Haa.. Talib Johri.. A leader should be "brave" like Late Rasheed Turabi (he had these skills )

Wa'Salam

Ali

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(bismillah)

(salam)

Not only did he kill Shi'ahs but he's one of the main people responsible for creating Sipah-e-Sahaba:

http://www.hvk.org/hvk/articles/0102/71.ht...990.VINCLUDEFIX

"In 1988, there was a violent uprising of the Shias in Gilgit, which was ruthlessly suppressed by Musharraf, who was given the task of dealing with the revolt by Zia-ul-Haq.  Musharraf had a large number of Sunni Pashtun tribesmen from the Federally-Administered Tribal Areas (FATA) led by Osama bin Laden brought into Gilgit.  They carried out a massacre of the Shias in the NA as well as the adjoining NWFP areas. It is believed by many in Pakistan that the crash of the aircraft in which Zia was travelling from Bahawalpur in August 1988 resulting in his death was caused by a Shia airman from Gilgit sympathetic to the TJP in retaliation for this massacre.

To keep the Shias of Gilgit under control, Musharraf encouraged the the SSP, which had come into existence in the Punjab in the early 1980s at the instance of the Inter-Services Intelligence (ISI), to extend its activities amongst the Sunni population of Gilgit and to politically organise them against the the TJP. Since then, there have frequently been clashes between the TJP and the SSP followers in Gilgit, the latest outbreak of such violent incidents having taken place in June, 2001, before Musharraf's visit to India for the summit talks with Mr.A.B.Vajpayee, the Indian Prime Minister.

The SSP, which, as stated above, originally came into existence in the Punjab province of Pakistan and spread from there to Sindh, was funded and used by the ISI and the Saudi intelligence for dealing with the Shias in Pakistan and for assisting the Sunni Balochis in the areas of  Iran adjoining Pakistan's Balochistan province."

Death to Musharraf!!  :angry:  :angry:

Please bro.

Dont use such unreliable sources..

That Anti-Pakistan, Anti-Islam site isn't a reliable source

"O Believers, if an unrighteous person comes to you with information, you should verify it or else you might inflict harm on a people in ignorance and then end up regretting what you have done"(Qur'an: Chapter 49, Verse 6)

Wa'Salam

Ali

Edited by Peer Syed Sahib

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Yes, the only way to end Shi'ah/Sunni violence is to partition Pakistan. Give the province of Sindh to the Shi'ahs and let the Sunnis have the rest of Pakistan. Without Sindh feeding the rest of Pakistan, the new Sunni state will be at the mercy of the Shi'ah nation of Sindh in less than a year.

Partition Pakistan? Relentless nonsensical assertions. Let’s examine this for a minute - a minute is more time than is reasonable to expend on this notion. Just who is going to be the partition-er? Are you suggesting that Shia Muslims will muster the armed forces and logistical means and methods to support an armed take over of Pakistan? If you’re thinking that Pakistan will not retaliate and crush an attempted revolt, you’re sadly mistaken.

Very clearly, the Shiite sect does not have a history of success at even defending it's own people, let alone rising to armed rebellion and regime change.

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Forgetting about Iran, are we?

Not at all, Seraphim. My post referred - thought not explicitly stated - to the decades of slaughter of Shiites at the hand of Hussein.

If you are referring to the Iran - Iraq war, my comments are still valid. That decade long slugfest with approx. 1/2 million men per side killed or wounded is not, in any sense that I envision, a viable argument for a well prosecuted offense or defense.

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A leader should be "brave" like Late Rasheed Turabi (he had these skills )

Br Peer,

Have you heard his Majalis: Sajdah?

:cry: :cry: ....

My chacha was really good friends with him. He learnt whatever he knows today off him too! He went to Saudi to preach Shiaism and was tortured for 12 years. Then he went back to Pakistan...

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It is clear that the Wahabi dominated Pakistnai Army has embarked on a campaign of genocide to gradually eliminate Shias from Pakistan.

The state of Pakistan is unsustainable...it has to be brought to an end, for the sake of the safetly of Shia lives.

How should this be done?

Personally I believe that partitioning Pakistan to create smaller states would create problems of economics and governing...there would be a lack of resources for the new state...

A better solution is to dissolve Pakistan, and carve it up so that India and Iran can divide the land between themselves. Shia would be free to join whichever of the two countries they want to.

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Bismillah

Salam Alaikum

Brothers, firstly the link is an Indian source which is not relaiable.

Secondly, by Allah majority of my Pakistani brothers and sisters are Ahle-Sunnah and treat us as brothers (and even they held majority in army).

Anyhow, I heard it that Shia brothers in northern areas made an uprising for separate Shia state.

But how intelligent this move was? [Remember, Jihad becomes obligatory only in some conditions which surely not applicable to Pakistan as we are free to practice our beliefs]

How many Ayatullahs gave fatwa that making Jihad against Pakistani army has become obligatory?????

In fact there was no such fatwa by the leader of Ummah of that time (i.e. Agha Khomeini).

Both Agha Khomeini and Agha Khaminei consider Pakistan still as brotherly muslim state.

===============

I don't know if the allegation against Musharraf is true or not, but he is very clever person and perhaps all of us did the same thing as he did under that conditions.

But brothers and sisters please realize that situation has changed now.

Taliban is against Musharraf and want to kill him. They have repeatedly asked to kill Mussaharaf.

And Musharraf is the one who strengthened the relations of Pakistan and Iran (i.e. Musharraf is an partriot Pakistani and does only that which is in interests of Pakistan)

And Musharraf is one who is promoting the Ahle-Sunnah and Shias for important posts as he can only have trust in them (like Air Chief Marshal of Pak Airforce was Mir Mushhaf (a Shia).

And this same Musharraf is screening out Wahabies from important posts of army and defence forces.

===================

Conclusion:

1) Musharraf should not be taken as enemy. We must make sure that interests of Pakistan are on our side and with this Musharraf is our best friend.

2) The idea of making separate Shia state in northern area is not very wise one. Even if it happens, the rest of Pakistani Shias have to pay the price for this.

3) Perhaps 95% of Shias of Pakistan are pure loyal to Pakistan and totally against any such division of Pakistan in name of Wahabia/Shia.

Personally I feel myself a Pakistani and I believe any such foolish idea of making separate Shia state will only damage the interests of Muslims Ummah and Shias.

Was Salam.

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I would never except the dissolution of Pakistan. Pakistan is one and will always remain as one. The army is not run by wahabi's. It is the most secular and liberal institution in Pakistan. Those who advocate a smaller Shia Pakistan are also misguided. The state will never survive. Anyway How would you run this state? Will this state mimic a Theocratic Republic like Iran?I would rather live under a Soldier's Helmet than a Cleric's Turban!!! I say this with no insult intended. In my humble opinion religious clerics are completely underqualified to run modern day countries with large scale economies. I do not think having a Religious Degree gives anyone the necessary qualifications to run Economies worth billions of pounds succcessfully and formulating foreign policy? What Pakistan needs is a clear division and separation of the State and Religion. Secular institutions that defend the right of religious beliefs is the way to go forward.

Wasaalam

Edited by Qasim

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(salam) Bro/Sis Zainbia very good post mashahAllah.

A better solution is to dissolve Pakistan, and carve it up so that India and Iran can divide the land between themselves. Shia would be free to join whichever of the two countries they want to.

I would rather be killed by a bullet from a wahabi, than to be burnt alive by an extremist Hindu, so you can keep dreaming, but Pakistan is never going to be included in India. I am amazed how can you people believe in an article which has propaganda written all over it. I can see now how Bangalis became against pakistan and wanted to separate from Pakistan. I think Pakistan should have a separate ministry for Propaganda against India, because Indian propaganda is very powerful and Pakistan should give answers to that.

Khuda Hafiz

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A leader should be "brave" like Late Rasheed Turabi (he had these skills )

Br Peer,

Have you heard his Majalis: Sajdah?

:cry: :cry: ....

My chacha was really good friends with him. He learnt whatever he knows today off him too! He went to Saudi to preach Shiaism and was tortured for 12 years. Then he went back to Pakistan...

Hmm No.

I just used to listen his majalis on PTV on Ashoor day..

But yeah, He was a great man, may Allah (swt) bless his soul ! Amen.

Ever heard Naseer Ijtihadi's speech?? He was Zia-ul-Haq's favourite :!!!:

LOL

Wa'Salam

Ali

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It is clear that the Wahabi dominated Pakistnai Army has embarked on a campaign of genocide to gradually eliminate Shias from Pakistan.

the pakistani army is NOT dominated by wahabis

I beg your pardon?

The Pakistan Army IS dominated by Wahabis, and the ISI is purely Wahabi.

In fact, if you are a Shia, they dont employ u in ISI.

Pakistani Army killed thousands of Shias in 1988 in Gilgit, and also in Parachinar.

Read this article to clear your doubts:

http://www.shianews.com/hi/articles/politi...ics/0000116.php

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(salam) Bro/Sis Zainbia very good post mashahAllah.
A better solution is to dissolve Pakistan, and carve it up so that India and Iran can divide the land between themselves. Shia would be free to join whichever of the two countries they want to.

I would rather be killed by a bullet from a wahabi, than to be burnt alive by an extremist Hindu, so you can keep dreaming, but Pakistan is never going to be included in India. I am amazed how can you people believe in an article which has propaganda written all over it. I can see now how Bangalis became against pakistan and wanted to separate from Pakistan. I think Pakistan should have a separate ministry for Propaganda against India, because Indian propaganda is very powerful and Pakistan should give answers to that.

Khuda Hafiz

You think its propaganda?

Have you talked to someone from Gilgit or Parachinar? they will tell you just how the situation was when Musharraf led in the Wahabi terrorists to kill and burn whole villiages...

Pakistani Army was monitoring the killing from helicopters...

The people of Gilgit cannot forget that...

Justice must be served. Pakistan MUST BE BROUGHT DOWN...enough is enough, we cannot see any more Shia lives lost.

Have you talked to any Pakistani army officer? so many have been indoctrinated by Wahabi mullahs..they hate Iran and Shias, and they support Taliban and Sipah Sahaba.

Lets face the facts...today, Pakistan has become a Wahabi state. It must be broken up...

Baluchistan can join Iran, NWFP can join Afghanistan, while Punjab and Sindh can join India...and any Shias should have the choice to live either in the new Iran or the new India.

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Today both Iran and India have a 6-8% economic growth rate...Pakistan is fizzling around 3% just because of the massive defense spending of the Wahabi generals because of the so called Kashmir issue.

Wahabi Pakistani Army is holding the Shias of Pakistan hostage to their evil policies...they are looting Pakistan and stayingin power because of "Kashmir" issue...

Do you know that not a single Shia Mujahid ever fought in kashmir? do you know why? because Pakistani Army doesnt recruit Shias for Jihad at all...they dont trust Shias!!!

Shias wil have much to benefit from by joining India and Iran...they are REAL countries...not fake countries like Pakistan...where NOTHING WORKS!

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Bismillah

Salam Alaikum

Brothers, firstly the link is an Indian source which is not relaiable.

Secondly, by Allah majority of my Pakistani brothers and sisters are Ahle-Sunnah and treat us as brothers (and even they held majority in army).

Anyhow, I heard it that Shia brothers in northern areas made an uprising for separate Shia state.

But how intelligent this move was? [Remember, Jihad becomes obligatory only in some conditions which surely not applicable to Pakistan as we are free to practice our beliefs]

How many Ayatullahs gave fatwa that making Jihad against Pakistani army has become obligatory?????

In fact there was no such fatwa by the leader of Ummah of that time (i.e. Agha Khomeini).

Both Agha Khomeini and Agha Khaminei consider Pakistan still as brotherly muslim state.

===============

I don't know if the allegation against Musharraf is true or not, but he is very clever person and perhaps all of us did the same thing as he did under that conditions.

But brothers and sisters please realize that situation has changed now.

Taliban is against Musharraf and want to kill him. They have repeatedly asked to kill Mussaharaf.

And Musharraf is the one who strengthened the relations of Pakistan and Iran (i.e. Musharraf is an partriot Pakistani and does only that which is in interests of Pakistan)

And Musharraf is one who is promoting the Ahle-Sunnah and Shias for important posts as he can only have trust in them (like Air Chief Marshal of Pak Airforce was Mir Mushhaf (a Shia).

And this same Musharraf is screening out Wahabies from important posts of army and defence forces.

===================

Conclusion:

1) Musharraf should not be taken as enemy. We must make sure that interests of Pakistan are on our side and with this Musharraf is our best friend.

2) The idea of making separate Shia state in northern area is not very wise one. Even if it happens, the rest of Pakistani Shias have to pay the price for this.

3) Perhaps 95% of Shias of Pakistan are pure loyal to Pakistan and totally against any such division of Pakistan in name of Wahabia/Shia.

Personally I feel myself a Pakistani and I believe any such foolish idea of making separate Shia state will only damage the interests of Muslims Ummah and Shias.

Was Salam.

zainabia,

Iran does NOT consider Pakistan as a brotherly Muslim state...Iran considers Pakistan to be its enemy...and this has been proven by the recent defense deal between Iran and India, whereupon Iran has allowed INdia the use of its airbases in case of a war with Pakistan.

Iran has clearly recognized that Pakistani Army is a Wahabi Satan, a proxy of the Saudi Royal Family.

We as Shias should also consider Pakistan as such.

The "Ahle Sunnah" of Pakistan are slowly being brainwashed by the government-sponsored Wahabi Mullahs. Today, ordinary "Ahle Sunnah" are calling Azam Tariq a "learned scholar" who died an unfair death.

The situation in Pakistan is beyond rectification.

I used to be a proud Pakistani. AFter I opened my eyes to the reality, I cannot hate anything more.

The loyalty of Shia to Pakistan is questionable. Given the option of joining Iran, or a more economically vibrant India, i dont think any one of them would want to stay with Pakistan. (remember there are so many Shias in Lucknow in India)

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It is clear that the Wahabi dominated Pakistnai Army has embarked on a campaign of genocide to gradually eliminate Shias from Pakistan.

the pakistani army is NOT dominated by wahabis

I beg your pardon?

The Pakistan Army IS dominated by Wahabis, and the ISI is purely Wahabi.

In fact, if you are a Shia, they dont employ u in ISI.

Pakistani Army killed thousands of Shias in 1988 in Gilgit, and also in Parachinar.

Read this article to clear your doubts:

http://www.shianews.com/hi/articles/politi...ics/0000116.php

The article is written by Khaled Ahmad..

It's not by the shianews team...

Disclaimer:

This article is provided by the person mentioned above. Shia News is not responsible for the contents of this article.

---

The Sipah Sahaba are supported by the MQM Haqiqi Group.

LOL their party's secretary or someone at some high post is a shia himself, and many workers are shias as well

Sources reveal that Sipah Sahaba's (sic!) Riaz Basra has been spotted in the company of a colonel who has also given him shelter in his house. Similarly, when three members of Lashkar-e-Jhangvi were picked up by the police, another colonel, who identified himself as their PRO, requested that they be released forthwith'.

If some colonels were wahabi and taliban supporters it doesnt mean that the whole of the army is influenced by wahabis..

It is a fact that shias have been on many high ranks in the Pakistani Army, Airforce and Navy.

Khuda Hafiz

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Baluchistan can join Iran, NWFP can join Afghanistan, while Punjab and Sindh can join India...and any Shias should have the choice to live either in the new Iran or the new India.

Why do you want us to be burnt alive like the gujratis? :unsure:

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Peer Sahib, I am living in Pakistan right now..i know what is happening around me... so don't call me brainwashed...

have u spoken to anyone from Gilgit who witnessed that massacre in 1998? I have...and i know what evil snakes these PAkistani army terrorists are...

do u know who killed Allama Arif Hussaini in Parachinar? it was the Pak Army terrorists...

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Iran does NOT consider Pakistan as a brotherly Muslim state...Iran considers Pakistan to be its enemy...and this has been proven by the recent defense deal between Iran and India, whereupon Iran has allowed INdia the use of its airbases in case of a war with Pakistan.

Iran has clearly recognized that Pakistani Army is a Wahabi Satan, a proxy of the Saudi Royal Family.

We as Shias should also consider Pakistan as such.

Source?? Just wait for 2 days .. Jamali is going to visit Iran, and then just see the statements issued by Dr. Khatami and Sayyid Khamenei :)

The "Ahle Sunnah" of Pakistan are slowly being brainwashed by the government-sponsored Wahabi Mullahs.  Today, ordinary "Ahle Sunnah" are calling Azam Tariq a "learned scholar" who died an unfair death. 

LOL, Open your eyes.. All the wahabis and Taleban supporters hate this present govt.

They have already declared Musharraf as Kafir !

The loyalty of Shia to Pakistan is questionable.  Given the option of joining Iran, or a more economically vibrant India, i dont think any one of them would want to stay with Pakistan. (remember there are so many Shias in Lucknow in India)

LOL @ economicslly vibrant India..

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Peer Sahib, I am living in Pakistan right now..i know what is happening around me... so don't call me brainwashed...

have u spoken to anyone from Gilgit who witnessed that massacre in 1998? I have...and i know what evil snakes these PAkistani army terrorists are...

do u know who killed Allama Arif Hussaini in Parachinar? it was the Pak Army terrorists...

I just left Pakistan a month ago.. so I think we both are equal in this.. right?

No proofs??

Wa'Salam

Ali

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Salam Alaikum

Br. IWN, I hope you don't take it personally, but what you suggest could be a very horrible move for shias (my humble opinion).

Secondly, br. IWN you have only seen Wahabies (while you live in Pakistan). Have you ever seen Hindus of BJP and Shiv Sina? Should I tell you more about them?

=================

Iran has never given at ports to India. It's only an another propaganda whose source was firstly Indian newspaper and secondly jewish run western newspaper.

Iranian government has openly refuted it but bulk of people want to believe only on this propaganda and through the Iranian governments remarks into dustbin.

================

What sister Zareen wrote, is the best i.e. shias and sunnies learn how to live in peace (as they did for centuries).

And looking at current politics, we have to support MUsharaf who is atleast doing excellent job in case of Taliban and Al-Qaeda (although domestically he still not taken much steps against Wahabies).

Secondly, Shias and Ahle-Sunnah in defence forces are promoted under his command and he is only relying upon these people.

Was salam

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I beg your pardon?

The Pakistan Army IS dominated by Wahabis, and the ISI is purely Wahabi.

the pakistani army is NOT dominated by wahabis and the ISI is NOT purely wahabi either....although there arent too many shias in the ISI

If Pakistani Army does not have a Wahabi bent... can someone explain their support to Taliban? We all know how Taliban treated the Hazaras.

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Personally I think Pakistan (i.e the regime, not the people) is extremely dangerous and has caused lots of instability. They have always killed shias (post-1970) and never given a damn about them.

Today when I saw the statement that the Paki regime has put a 2.5 million rupees ransom for the murderer of Tariq Azam, that just made me puke, considering the fact that hundreds of shias have been slaughtered and the paki regime did not do a damn thing about it.

Hindoostan (India) on the other hand has never done anything in particular to Shias. They hate Sunnis because the Moghuls came there and ruled, and messed up in the country basically. Issue of Kashmir is political, just like the issue of Bangladesh (East Pakistan) and Pakistan.

India was among the first country's to ban Rushdie's books, they always supported Palestine etc., they were a member of the Non-aligned Nations Movement (NAM) and actively took sides for muslim states on a number of issues etc.

Unfortunately all we gave them back (except possibly Iran and a few other smaller muslim countries) was [Edited Out]. So no wonder, normal Indians got tired of muslims and voted the extremist BJP in, established ties with Israel, etc.

We lost a great ally, which with all its wrongs (yes it does have wrongs - for example the referendum in Kashmir which a U.N. resolution stipulates, but India has not acted upon), could have helped us.

India has always been safe for Shias and many Shia learning centres have been established there during the centuries.

I agree with IWN's sentiments but not his plan for creating peace for Shias.

Edited by waiting

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