Jump to content
Guests can now reply in ALL forum topics (No registration required!) ×
Guests can now reply in ALL forum topics (No registration required!)
In the Name of God بسم الله

What were the 3 doing at the Janaza of the Prophet

Rate this topic


Recommended Posts

  • Advanced Member
You have no proof here that Abu Hurayra lied regarding the number of men sent with Usama. Also, you claim automatic reject for Abu Hur but when it comes to hadith praising the Ahly Bait you will accept him ( and at the same time saying he hated Ahly Bait ). However, i will reject Ibn Hadid in all circumstances.

If you want to play it this way, I can play too. You have no proof Ibn Humayd lied about Umar breaking down the door of Fatima Zahra (as) :)

In any case, I use Abu Hurayra's ahadith in dialogue with Sunnis. At least I do, I can't speak for everyone else. We have ahadith from Imam Ja'far (as) saying he was an established liar and fabricator.

How can we take Abu Hurayra's ahadith? There are none in Shia books. :blink:

Edited by YouthOfAli
Link to post
Share on other sites
(salam)

Do you have a reading problem?

He ADMITS it.

Sallam

Do you have an understanding problem?

He didnt attribute it to the Prophet at all. He said it was his own words. Therefore, we will not take it as a part of our deen nor will we consider it the Prophets words.

He admits it. Exactly my point. You dont forge hadith and then tell the people you want to deceive i forged it. :rolleyes:

Link to post
Share on other sites
  • Advanced Member
He admits it. Exactly my point. You dont forge hadith and then tell the people you want to deceive i forged it. 

So why does Bukhari record something that was not the prophet's words, since Abu Hurayra's words have no value in Islam, and the fact that Bukhari was collecting hadeeth not random statements?

Link to post
Share on other sites
  • Advanced Member
According to Tabari also, it was in fact MUNAFEQOON who complained about Usama. In the terminology of Ahly sunnat, Monafeqoon are not at all the early Muhajirs and Ansar.

So who exactly are the Munafiqoon? And how do the "ahly sunnat" know who the Munafiqoon are? Do they have a sensor? I want it too! :P :P

Link to post
Share on other sites
If ur talking abt the burial then no they werent there. Actually MANY werent there except the banu Hashim.

According to all the history sources only nine people were at the burial of the Prophet pbuh.

So, since Abu Bakra, Umar and Uthman were supposedly the best of people after the Prophet pbuh, why weren't they among the nine? What were they doing?

The nine people were:

1. Ali ibn Abi Talib

2. Zubayr ibn al Awwaam

3. Abbas ibn Abdul Muttalib

4. Fadhl ibn Abbas

5. Qathm ibn Abbas

6. Usama bin Zayd bin Haritha

7. Aus bin Khuli Ansari

8. Hasan ibn Ali

9. Husain ibn Ali

(salam)

What happend to other companions ?other than these three ?Only 9 pepole attended funreal ?where were other companions out side madina ? during the funereal time of Prohet of Islam(pbuh)?didn't the News of death n Burial(timing) of Prophet of Islam(pbuh) were/wasn't announced ?

wa salam

no bro that is exactly the thing. It wasnt announced. The Prophet was buried in the night when NO ONE knew except these 9 people. I find that odd because:

1. Why do you bury the Prophet so late at night?

2. Why dont you inform the people that you are burying him?

3. How many people were at Saqifa? Umar, Abu Bakr, Abu Ubaydah, the Ansar and maybe a few others. Did Saqifa take place at night? If not then where were these people? Where were the thousands and thousand of others amongst them people who had NOTHING to do with the Khilafat.

Odd..

where was Ibn Abbas? Where was Bilal al Habashi? I just wish to know because these people had nothing to do with the Saqifa...

(bismillah)

(salam)

Only 9 attended the funeral of Prophet of Islam(pbuh) ? :cry:

Can someone explain me,where were other companions ,Other than these saaqifa community ?

wa salam

Edited by Lion™
Link to post
Share on other sites
  • Advanced Member

Well what a surprise!

I go off for the evening and miss this:

If u have nothing to contribute stay quiet.

Sallam

What do you want me to contribute?

I asked you to answer a question instead of dodging it and you finally managed to do so.

My contribution was pointing out your failure to answer and attempting to change the topic.

If it upsets you too greatly to admit the serious failings of your beloved sahabas just admit it instead of making pathetic childish remarks.

The bottom line is that your beloved sahabas went off to grab power without so much as a thought to burying the Prophet(s).

Edited by Contra
Link to post
Share on other sites
So why does Bukhari record something that was not the prophet's words, since Abu Hurayra's words have no value in Islam, and the fact that Bukhari was collecting hadeeth not random statements?

Sallam

Your arguement has nothing to do with the topic nor will it change anything whether Bukhari did this as it is evident this was not the prophets narration.

Link to post
Share on other sites
According to Tabari also, it was in fact MUNAFEQOON who complained about Usama. In the terminology of Ahly sunnat, Monafeqoon are not at all the early Muhajirs and Ansar.

So who exactly are the Munafiqoon? And how do the "ahly sunnat" know who the Munafiqoon are? Do they have a sensor? I want it too! :P :P

Joking during a serious discussion is the sign of the weak.

Link to post
Share on other sites
Well what a surprise!

I go off for the evening and miss this:

If u have nothing to contribute stay quiet.

Sallam

What do you want me to contribute?

I asked you to answer a question instead of dodging it and you finally managed to do so.

My contribution was pointing out your failure to answer and attempting to change the topic.

If it upsets you too greatly to admit the serious failings of your beloved sahabas just admit it instead of making pathetic childish remarks.

The bottom line is that your beloved sahabas went off to grab power without so much as a thought to burying the Prophet(s).

Sallam

Tell me have i answered it or not? If you wish to know the answer to the topic it is YES they were at the Janazah.

Simple brother. As i mentioned before, my answer needed some other questions to be answered first.

Ignoring your baseless comments about how they "ran off" to grab power, knowing the fact the prophet was buried 2 days after Saqifa and it was Abu Bakr who decided the spot he was to be buried based on hadith and how they did attend the Janzah on TUESDAY while the Saqifa occured on MONDAY. Also, one should know when he reads Tabari, Ibn Hisham, Ibn Ishaq that when Umar found out about the Ansari gathering he called Abu Bakr but Abu Bakr REFUSED to initially come out because he was with the body of the Prophet, May Allah bless him, and then Umar kept calling him until Abu bakr finally asked what the problem was.

when history is presented as a whole the truth becomes evident. What you people do is bite off small bits and pieces and join them together to suite your own ideas.

Sallam

Link to post
Share on other sites
  • Advanced Member
when history is presented as a whole the truth becomes evident. What you people do is bite off small bits and pieces and join them together to suite your own ideas.

Sallam

(bismillah) (salam)

If you wish to know the answer to the topic it is YES they were at the Janazah.

Didnt the Prophet say "Cursed is the one who fails to join Osamah's Army".

So either they were there and DISOBEYED the Prophet, or they were complying to the OBLIGATORY DIRECTIVE of the PROPHET by joing Osamah's Army and where amongst the ranks on the outskirts of Madina. Which is it?

Edited by wilayah
Link to post
Share on other sites
  • Advanced Member

(bismillah) (salam)

The Prophet in his illness called on Osamah bin Zayd, handed him the banner of Islam, and then ordered the chiefs of the clans to comply with the orders.

Sharh of Saheeh Albukhari

Arabic text is about those who refused to be under the command of osamah because of his age.

In the Sharh on that page: "This is the leadership of Osamah bin Zayd in the military expedition of Mu'tah…showing the young can be nominated over those older because in the Army, led by osamah, there was ABU BAKR AND OMAR

Al-Tirmidhi in his Sahih relates the same hadeeth and classifies it as HADEETH SAHIH HASAN, and that the Sheikhayn (Bukhari and Muslim) related it.

Sharh Al-baree-Ibn Hijr al-Askalani

"…The illness of the Prophet started on the third day, therefore, he fasten a banner with his own hands for Osamah. Osamah took it and handed it over to Baredah... Of those assigned to join Osamah were the chiefs of the Muhajireen and the Ansar; of them ABU BAKR and OMAR and Abu Ubaidah, and Saad, and Saed, and Qutadah bin Al-Nu3man and Salmah bin Aslam"

Ibn Askalani further states how long the expedition took:

The prophet's illness worsened, therefore he said: COMPLY WITH MY ORDERS of joining Osamah's Army... Abu Bakr prepared him after his appointment and they marched forward for 20 NIGHTS towards the place he was ordered and he killed the killer of his father, and came back safely with the troops and with war booty.

Your saheehs contradict what you claim. Either they were there or they were not. If they were there then they are DISOBEDIENT RENAGADES, who turned back after being ordered to be amongst the ranks of Osamah's Army. Or they were not there, which means fatah's elongated history essay was no more than a mere fairytale.

Link to post
Share on other sites

Sallam

Once again i state read history as a whole. Did i deny that Abu bakr and Umar were part of the army.?However, if you further read the traditions and go more into the history you will see:

1. Abu Bakr was exempted afterwards.

2. Umar DID join the army and so did Abu Ubaidah. They returned with Osama and no one opposed it.

3. Many of the leading Sahaba were still in Medina fighting the other tribes.

The Sahihs do not contradict anything it is lack of intellect and knowledge that makes you assume such. I have given you sources from Tabari, Ibn Asir, Ibn Kathir, Ibn Sad, Sirah Halabiyah yet you still do not understand a word. Your point that Umar and Abu bakr were part of the army proves nothing because later traditions contradict what you say and yes even the sahihs agree with my point. If you wish to deny go ahead. Re read my previous posts.

Sallam

Link to post
Share on other sites
  • Advanced Member
Sallam

Once again i state read history as a whole. Did i deny that Abu bakr and Umar were part of the army.?However, if you further read the traditions and go more into the history you will see:

1. Abu Bakr was exempted afterwards.

2. Umar DID join the army and so did Abu Ubaidah. They returned with Osama and no one opposed it.

3. Many of the leading Sahaba were still in Medina fighting the other tribes.

The Sahihs do not contradict anything it is lack of intellect and knowledge that makes you assume such. I have given you sources from Tabari, Ibn Asir, Ibn Kathir, Ibn Sad, Sirah Halabiyah yet you still do not understand a word. Your point that Umar and Abu bakr were part of the army proves nothing because later traditions contradict what you say and yes even the sahihs agree with my point. If you wish to deny go ahead. Re read my previous posts.

Sallam

(bismillah) (salam)

Salmany, I am sure you are aware of who Ibn Hijr Al-Askalani is. And if there was any text or hadeeth from the prophet exempting Abu Bakr he would not have hesitated one iota in including it in his Sharh. Therefore, the hadeeths of the Prophet ordering the chiefs of the clans in Madina to join Osamah's army are numerous. In Both Sahih Muslim and in Sahih Bukhari, the two most authentic hadeeth books of Ahlul Sunnah do not deny this, nor do they exempt them from the expedition.

If there is a hadeeth exempting them please post it with references so that it can be checked.

And you say that Umar DID join and returned later with Osamah. According to Sharh alBaree, the expedition took 20 NIGHTS to complete. Therefore if Omar was with him and returned with him. The Prophet would have died in his absence, therefore where does the hadeeth about Omar claiming the Prophet wasnt dead and then been consoled by Abu Bakr fit in. Again he was either with Osmah and came back with Osamah AFTER 20 NIGHTS. Or he was there when the Prophet died, which means he was a disobedient renegade.

The only tribal fight that took place in Madina was the one at Saqifa Bani Sa'ida.

Link to post
Share on other sites
  • Advanced Member
According to Tabari also, it was in fact MUNAFEQOON who complained about Usama. In the terminology of Ahly sunnat, Monafeqoon are not at all the early Muhajirs and Ansar.

So who exactly are the Munafiqoon? And how do the "ahly sunnat" know who the Munafiqoon are? Do they have a sensor? I want it too! :P :P

Joking during a serious discussion is the sign of the weak.

Answer the question.

HOW DO YOU KNOW WHO THE MUNAFIQOON ARE?

According to my understanding, only Allah knows.

Link to post
Share on other sites
  • Advanced Member
Abu Bakr REFUSED to initially come out because he was with the body of the Prophet, May Allah bless him, and then Umar kept calling him until Abu bakr finally asked what the problem was.

So what pressurised Abu Bakr so much to leave the Prophet pbuh on the words of Umar?

Link to post
Share on other sites

Sallam

To Wilayah:

Yes i am well aware who ibn Hajar Asqalani is but that is not at all relevant to this discussion at all. As for the exemption, if you read the Sahihs you will know that Abu Bakr was ordered to lead the prayer so theres your exemption. Also in the Sahihs you will see the Prophet never opposed this. However, you manipulate these sources to suite your own needs.You want to bring proof from the Sahihs then do so because for every thing you bring i will bring something from the same book that puts it in prospective.

Then you go on with one source claiming that it took 20 days when you know very well that Jurf is ONLY 3 miles from Medina and that is where Osama stopped. It was a messanger from Usama's mother Umme Ayman who rushed to the place where the Army was (Jurf) to let them know that the prophet was dying. On hearing that Osama along with a few others, which included Umar abd Abu Ubaidah, went back to Medina.

I have given you various sources which you conveniently ignore.

To Youthofali:

According to your understanding only Allah knows, yet you are the first and your sect is the first to accuse and degrade people and call them Munafiqs. Do not be hypocritical and fear Allah.

Exact reference? Read every history book, youll see the references.

As for what pressurized Abu Bakr, nothing did. As narrated by Ali:

“A person’s family and relatives are the ones responsible for arranging his burial.” (Sunan Abu Dawood, Vol. 2, Page 102)

Also, you should know that Umar to at first did not come out. If you read Sahih Bukhari, Musnad Ahmad, Kanzul Ummal, Al Bidayah wal Nihaayah, Al Kaamil Li ibn Atheer, Sirah Nabawi Li ibn Hisham and Tareekhul Islaam Lith Thahabi you will see that when a person came to Umar about the gathering at Banu Saida Umar to initially refused. However, when Umar realized the intentions of the Ansar he came out and called Abu Bakr who refused to, but later accompanied Umar.

Sallam

Edited by salmany
Link to post
Share on other sites
  • Advanced Member
Sallam

To Wilayah:

Yes i am well aware who ibn Hajar Asqalani is but that is not at all relevant to this discussion at all. As for the exemption, if you read the Sahihs you will know that Abu Bakr was ordered to lead the prayer so theres your exemption. Also in the Sahihs you will see the Prophet never opposed this. However, you manipulate these sources to suite your own needs.You want to bring proof from the Sahihs then do so because for every thing you bring i will bring something from the same book that puts it in prospective.

Then you go on with one source claiming that it took 20 days when you know very well that Jurf is ONLY 3 miles from Medina and that is where Osama stopped. It was a messanger from Usama's mother Umme Ayman who rushed to the place where the Army was (Jurf) to let them know that the prophet was dying. On hearing that Osama along with a few others, which included Umar abd Abu Ubaidah, went back to Medina. 

I have given you various sources which you conveniently ignore.

To Youthofali:

According to your understanding only Allah knows, yet you are the first and your sect is the first to accuse and degrade people and call them Munafiqs. Do not be hypocritical and fear Allah.

Exact reference? Read every history book, youll see the references.

As for what pressurized Abu Bakr, nothing did. As narrated by Ali:

“A person’s family and relatives are the ones responsible for arranging his burial.”  (Sunan Abu Dawood, Vol. 2, Page 102) 

Also, you should know that Umar to at first did not come out. If you read Sahih Bukhari, Musnad Ahmad, Kanzul Ummal, Al Bidayah wal Nihaayah, Al Kaamil Li ibn Atheer, Sirah Nabawi Li ibn Hisham and Tareekhul Islaam Lith Thahabi you will see that when a person came to Umar about the gathering at Banu Saida Umar to initially refused. However, when Umar realized the intentions of the Ansar he came out and called Abu Bakr who refused to, but later accompanied Umar.

Sallam

(bismillah) (salam)

Just to let you know where I stand, I too believe that they were in Madina but they were no where near the Prophet.

As for the exemption, if you read the Sahihs you will know that Abu Bakr was ordered to lead the prayer so theres your exemption.

The hadeeths as to whom ordered Abu Bakr to pray are conflicting. As I have asked you before provide a hadeeth where the Prophet asked Abu Bakr or Omar to stay behind; explicit exemption. How else can you justify, or can they justify their disobedience of the EXPLICIT COMMAND of being away from the expedition.

Read the hadeeths and stop chasing your tail. These are your own Sahihs talking, and if you are so blind as to say like those who said, "Enough for us is that wherein we found our fathers."

Either AbuBakr and Omar were there or they were not.

The Prophet said THRICE: COMPLY COMPLY COMPLY! In company of the Prophet, Osamah is prepared and helped by Abu bakr and they are sent off together, with the rest of the Muhajireen and Ansar. Osamah's expedition was A DIRECT ORDER from the Prophet, and you do not turn back. As much as Imam Ali would have loved to be in Tabuk with the Prophet, his orders were to STAY in the city and HE STAYED!. "And it behoves not a believing man and a believing woman that they should have any choice in their matter when Allah and His Messenger have decided a matter ; and whoever disobeys Allah and His Messenger, he surely strays off a manifest straying"

SHARH AL-BAREE

"…The illness of the Prophet started on the third day, therefore, he fastened a banner with his own hands for Osamah. Osamah took it and handed it over to Baredah and soldiers in Jurf. Of those assigned to join Osamah were the chiefs of the Muhajireen and the Ansar; of them ABU BAKR and OMAR and Abu Ubaidah, and Saad, and Saed, and Qutadah bin Al-Nu3man and Salmah bin Aslam...

...some of those present opposed this, of them was Ayaash bin Abu Rabi3a al-Makhzoumi. Omar rebuked him and informed the Prophet, who addressed the people regarding this matter. The prophet's illness worsened, therefore he said: COMPLY WITH MY ORDERS of joining Osamah's Army... Abu Bakr prepared him after his appointment AND THEY MARCHED forward for 20 NIGHTS towards the place he was ordered and he killed the killer of his father, and came back safely with the troops and with war booty.

The Prophet's illness worsens and his orders were COMPLY COMPLY COMPLY! but no order or exemption for anyone at this point. In fact THEY MARCH together and come back after 20 Nights.

...Ibn Ishaaq mentioned in the well-known biography: 'Illness of the Prophet began on Wednesday and on Thursday he tied the banner for Osamah and said: 'march for the sake of Allah, and go to the place of your father's death, for I have appointed you head of this Army...THERE WAS NOT ONE OF THE EARLY MUHAJIREEN AND ANSAR, BUT WAS COMMISSIONED TO JOIN THE EXPEDIDITION, OF THEM OMAR AND ABU BAKR.

Then you go on with one source claiming that it took 20 days when you know very well that Jurf is ONLY 3 miles from Medina and that is where Osama stopped

Jurf was not mentioned as their destination...READ CAREFULLY: AND THEY MARCHED forward for 20 NIGHTS towards the place he was ordered .

Osamah's expedition

SYRIA THEN ON TO PALESTINE

Edited by wilayah
Link to post
Share on other sites
  • Chatroom Moderators

(salam)

Alot of different stories are being told here which one to believe is very difficult. 'Umar was there Abu Bakr was there he was there and there na na Umar was there on the street then he omewhere else.' Whats going here stay on one story. Someone earlier made a very good point found Umar's words very important and went to the meeting. So that means Abu Bakr was more interested in the leadership then Prophets pbuh funeral. Umar wasn't ineterested in the funeral of the Prophet pbuh he came to call Abu Bakr. Uthman was already there at the meeting so he wasn't there at the Janaza. Well well that simply answers my and some others question. Jazkallah to those contributed to give the answer and to get the answer. Jazakallah.

Fi-Amanillah

Syed Ali Naqi :)

Link to post
Share on other sites
  • Advanced Member
(salam)

Alot of different stories are being told here which one to believe is very difficult. 'Umar was there Abu Bakr was there he was there and there na na Umar was there on the street then he omewhere else.' Whats going here stay on one story. Someone earlier made a very good point found Umar's words very important and went to the meeting. So that means Abu Bakr was more interested in the leadership then Prophets pbuh funeral. Umar wasn't ineterested in the funeral of the Prophet pbuh he came to call Abu Bakr. Uthman was already there at the meeting so he wasn't there at the Janaza. Well well that simply answers my and some others question. Jazkallah to those contributed to give the answer and to get the answer. Jazakallah.

Fi-Amanillah

Syed Ali Naqi :)

Abu Bakr was seeing to Prophet body and was intercept by Umar. Together both headed to Saqifa of banu Saeidah and left Prophet body to be handled by others. Uthman was no where to be found

Link to post
Share on other sites
  • Advanced Member

Salam Alaikum

Just one question...

Br Salman, you say that the namaz-e-janaza was recited in small groups.

If the body of the Ummah wsa united, why couldnt they announce the janaza time and everybody come together and pray together to show unity and solidarity? The janaza of the greatest creation of Allah (SWT) must be more important than enything else, more important the Jumuah i would think.

The small groups only prove further that there were cracks within the ummah.

I guess one of the small groups, led by Imam Ali (A) included Zubayr ibn al Awwaam, Abbas ibn Abdul Muttalib, Fadhl ibn Abbas, Qathm ibn Abbas, Usama bin Zayd bin Haritha, Aus bin Khuli Ansari, Hasan ibn Ali, Husain ibn Ali. Considering these are the people who did the burial rites, this most probably may hve been the official janaza. What do u think?

Link to post
Share on other sites
  • Advanced Member

It was my understanding that when news of prophet s.a.w death they feared panic of people. That is when Abu Bakr may Allah be pleased with him made state that for those of you who worshipped prophet s.a.w. no that he is dead and for those who worship Allah he is enternal forgive me ignoress or mistake in repeating story

Link to post
Share on other sites
  • Advanced Member
Salam Alaikum

Just one question...

Br Salman, you say that the namaz-e-janaza was recited in small groups.

If the body of the Ummah wsa united, why couldnt they announce the janaza time and everybody come together and pray together to show unity and solidarity? The janaza of the greatest creation of Allah (SWT) must be more important than enything else, more important the Jumuah i would think.

The small groups only prove further that there were cracks within the ummah.

I guess one of the small groups, led by Imam Ali (A) included Zubayr ibn al Awwaam, Abbas ibn Abdul Muttalib, Fadhl ibn Abbas, Qathm ibn Abbas, Usama bin Zayd bin Haritha, Aus bin Khuli Ansari, Hasan ibn Ali, Husain ibn Ali. Considering these are the people who did the burial rites, this most probably  may hve been the official janaza. What do u think?

(bismillah) (salam)

The actual funeral prayers were performed by Imam Ali (as) after he had washed and shrouded the Prophet (pbuh).

The Prophet (pbuh) called Ali (as) and entrusted him with his will, which was the paying of his debts, preparing him him for burial and praying over him alone.

When the condition of the Prophet (pbuh) worsened he said to Ali (as): "place my head in your lap, for the will of Allah has neared; turn me to the qiblah, and attend to my needs and perform prayers on me before anyone else, and do not leave me until you have placed me in my grave, and seek help from Allah".

The Imam (as) performed the ghusl with the help of Al-Fadhl bin Al-Abbas who had to be blindfolded as no-one was allowed to see the Prophet's nakedness (pbuh).

Meanwhile in the mosque people where bickering about who should be the Imam of prayers and where the Prophet should be buried. When the Imam finished from the ghusl and prayed alone salat al-mayyit, for only a masoom can pray over a masoom, he went out to the people and said, "The Prophet is the Imam, dead or alive, therefore form small groups, and each group come and perform your prayers without an imam, then leave, and Allah does not take the soul of a Prophet in a place, but that he is buried in that same place, therefore I will be buring him in the room where he (pbuh) passed away.

Edited by wilayah
Link to post
Share on other sites

(bismillah)

(salam)

You have forgetten to mention that who prayed on the rasool (saw)? ABu bark? Isn't there many many sunni authentic hadith about the Gadir Qom incident making Imam Ali (as) the Imam after the Prophet (saw)?

As far as I am concerned, Abu Bark disobyed the orders of the prophet (saw). TO disobey the prophet (saw), you get Lanat from Allah (Saw).

Do you guys know why ONLY imam Ali (as) could do the ghusl? Because no one can see the private parts of the Prophet (saw), if anyone else see him, he would become blind.

(salam)

Abbas

Link to post
Share on other sites

Sallam

The hadeeths as to whom ordered Abu Bakr to pray are conflicting. As I have asked you before provide a hadeeth where the Prophet asked Abu Bakr or Omar to stay behind; explicit exemption. How else can you justify, or can they justify their disobedience of the EXPLICIT COMMAND of being away from the expedition.

The hadiths to whom ordered the Prophet to pray are not conflicting. You will eventually mention that Ayesha was the one who asked Abu bakr to lead, but as i have said before do not take bits and pieces of things that suite your own agenda. As for Umars exemption, as i mentioned before, Umar DID join the amy. When will this thing enter your head dear brother. Umar came back along with Usama and Abu Ubaidah. I think this is the 10th time im repeating this statement. Yet you have ignored it. You have ignored numerous historical sources and have taken 1 or 2 to suite your own views.

Also you stated:

Omar rebuked him and informed the Prophet

Therefore that answers youthofalis question on who opposed Usamah. Nonetheless, Usama marched for 20 days AFTER the Prophets death and during the Khilafat of ABU BAKR. When the Prophet was still alive, Usamah stopped at Jurf which was THREE miles from Medina and then a messenger came telling him that the Prophet was in a severe condition on which HE, UMAR and Abu Ubaidah including some others rushed back to be with the Prophet. Everyone knows this. As you mentioned:

Abu Bakr prepared him after his appointment

You have refuted yourself in regards to this.

------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

As for brother Syed Ali Naqvi, it seems your associates have probably confused you. I have stuck to the same points throughout this post.

1. Usamah was commanded to march, among those in his army were Abu Bakr and Umar.

2. Some people opposed this and Umar rebuked them. Therefore, neither Umar nor Abu Bakr were involved in anything against Usama.

3. Abu Bakr was exempted from the Army.

4. Usamah marched and stopped at Jurf which was 3 miles from Medina, Umar and Abu Ubaidah accompanied him.

5. A messenger was sent by Usamahs mother to tell about the condition of the Prophet on which he returned with Umar and Abu Ubaidah.

6. The Prophet died on Monday. The Saqifa took place on the same day.

7. The Prophet was washed on Tuesday and his Janazah took place without an Imam. He was buried on wednesday night ( the night before Wednesday morning like 12 midnight , 1 am etc )

------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Bro Abbas 786

It was not because the Ummah was disunited that they went in small numbers to see the Prophet. The Prophet at that time was still in Ayeshas quarters. The number of Muslims at the time numbered thousands and thousands and therefore it was very difficult to actually have one big janazah. If you read history brother you will see when Abu Bakr and Umar entered the Janazah the room was basically almost full. Then Abu bakr recited praise for the Prophet and the whole group recited ameen, ameen.

Sallam

Link to post
Share on other sites
  • Advanced Member
The hadiths to whom ordered the Prophet to pray are not conflicting. You will eventually mention that Ayesha was the one who asked Abu bakr to lead, but as i have said before do not take bits and pieces of things that suite your own agenda.

you are correct.

But thats not an issue.

Abu Hurayra reports that the Apostle of God said that:

"Prayer is a mandatory duty for you, and you can offer it behind any Muslim even if he is a fasiq (even if he commits major sins)."

According to this "tradition" a fasiq (sinner) is just as well qualified to be an Imam (prayer-leader) as a saint; in the matter of acting as Imam, the sinner and the saint enjoy parity!

John Alden Williams

And hearing and obeying the Imams and the Commanders of the believers (is necessary) - whoever received the Caliphate, whether he is pious or profligate, whether the people agreed on him and were pleased with him or whether he attacked them with the sword until he became Caliph and was called "Commander of the Believers." Going on a holy war (Jihad) is efficacious with a pious or with a dissolute commander until the day of Resurrection; one does not abandon him. Division of the spoils of war and applying the punishments prescribed by the Law is for the Imams. It is not for anyone to criticize them or contend with them. Handing over the alms-money to them (for distribution) is permissible and efficacious; whoever pays them has fulfilled his obligation whether (the Imam) was pious or dissolute. The collective prayer behind the Imam and those he delegates is valid and complete; both prostrations. Whoever repeats them is an innovator, abandoning the tradition and opposed to the Sunna. There is no virtue in his Friday prayer at all, if he does not believe in praying with the Imams, whoever they are, good or bad; the Sunna is to pray two prostrations with them and consider the matter finished. On that let there be no doubt in your bosom. (Some Essential Hanbali Doctrines from a Credal Statement in Themes of Islamic Civilization, p. 31, 1971).

According to the Hanbali verdict quoted above, anyone and everyone can lead the Muslims in prayer. Abu Hurayra and Abu Sufyan are as much qualified to become prayer-leaders as Abu Bakr.

-www.al-islam.org/restatement

Link to post
Share on other sites
  • Advanced Member
Sallam

Sallam

(bismillah) (salam)

The hadiths to whom ordered the Prophet to pray are not conflicting.

the narration of abu bakr praying comes mostly from ayesha, and she in the same breath narrates that his illness was so severe that he leaned on two men, dragging his legs from the severity of illness and went to pray in the sitting position.

supposing he had asked him to pray, why would he drag himself in that condition. The obvious answer is he DID NOT, he dragged himself after he was told that abu bakr, who was - yes asked by ayesha to lead prayers as Ibn Abil Hadeed states - in order to halt him.

Secondly he would not order him to pray after he had just ORDERED him to join Osamah's army. Again do not disect hadeeths according to your whims and desires. The issue is not about personalities, aka the personality of Abu bakr versus that of Ali. The issue is OBEDIENCE.

Ibless was ordered to prostrate before Adam. His arrogance prevented him. So much so that he offered to prostrate to Allah a prostration that none had prostrated the likes of it before if Allah would only excuse him from prostrating to Adam. A suggestion rejected by Allah who of course only desires to be WORSHIPPED FROM WHENCE HE WISHES AND NOT FROM WHENCE WE DESIRE .

The Prophet's condition was severely deteriorating and he knew without doubt that he would be departing from the world. If he had wanted Abu Bakr to remain behind and exempted him so that he may lead in prayers, he would not have sent him off in the first instance and he would not have repeated THRICE the orders to comply and join Osamah's Army and he would not have CURSED those who lagged behind. He did not exempt him at the onset, nor did he exempt him thereafter. It was clear DISOBEDIENCE.

CONTRADICTORY HADEETHS:

Check your sources and you will find some say:

1. The Prophet called on omar to pray after he had asked Ayesha about her father, who said he was not available. Omar, when he found abu bakr, decided against the prophet's orders and told abu bakr to pray.

2. The Prophet called on omar to pray. Omar told Bilal to tell the Prophet that Abu Bakr was outside the door. Therefore, the prophet asked Abu Bakr.

3. Omar lead the prayers without the prophet's permission, and when the prophet heard he said, "Allah and the believers disdain that". (meaning the leading of Omar in prayers).

4. Omar prayed because abu bakr was absent.

5. the prophet called on abu bakr to pray who in turn called on omar to pray but he, omar, abstained.

AS FOR WHO ORDERED ABU BAKR TO PRAY:

narrations again conflict, some claiming that it was Ayesha, some that it was Bilal and some that it was Abdullah bin Zum'a

AS FOR WHO QUERIED THE PROPHET ABOUT ABU BAKR'S SALAT.

some narrations claim it was ayesha who questioned the appointment of her father 3 times or more.

Other narrate ayesha did it then handed the task over to Hafsa who queried the Prophet once or twice, and when the prophet rebuked her she went back to Ayesha and said, "I never gain anything good from you".

AS FOR THE SALAT HE WAS COMMISSIONED TO LEAD:

some narrations claim it to be Asr prayers, others state it is Isha prayers and the third group say it was the morning prayers.

AS FOR THE PRESENCE OF THE PROPHET IN THE CONGREGATION:

Some claim that he left his quarters and went out to pray, others claim that he just raised his head and looked from behind the curtain and did not join them in the congregation.

AS FOR ABU BAKR'S SALAT AND HOW MANY TIMES IT OCCURED.

Some claim it was performed throughout the prophet's illness. Others claim it to be only 17 times, others 3 days, and the fourth group claim 6 times, and the other narration lean towards once only.

Abu Bakr prepared him after his appointment

Again do not disect the hadeeths to suit your agenda...'after his appointment', refers to the appointment of Osamah as leader of the Army.

LO! THE FRAILEST OF ALL HOUSES IS THE SPIDER'S HOUSE!

Is he, therefore, better who lays his foundation on fear of Allah and (His) good pleasure, or he who lays his foundation on the edge of a cracking hollowed bank, so it broke down with him into the fire of hell; and Allah does not guide the unjust people.

Edited by wilayah
Link to post
Share on other sites
  • Advanced Member

(bismillah) (salam)

Abu Bakr prepared him after his appointment

As for you attempting to confuse the issue and make it seem like abu bakr was appointed and evidence of that his being commanded to pray, Then I believe you should again look through your books and you will find that there is no virtue in leading prayers, nor is it a sign of leadership.

Other than the narration from abu huraira where he allows in it prayers behind a fasiq, you will find that during the lifetime of the prophet many men led prayers, even the blind.

Link to post
Share on other sites
you are correct.

But thats not an issue.

Abu Hurayra reports that the Apostle of God said that:

"Prayer is a mandatory duty for you, and you can offer it behind any Muslim even if he is a fasiq (even if he commits major sins)."

According to this "tradition" a fasiq (sinner) is just as well qualified to be an Imam (prayer-leader) as a saint; in the matter of acting as Imam, the sinner and the saint enjoy parity!

John Alden Williams

And hearing and obeying the Imams and the Commanders of the believers (is necessary) - whoever received the Caliphate, whether he is pious or profligate, whether the people agreed on him and were pleased with him or whether he attacked them with the sword until he became Caliph and was called "Commander of the Believers." Going on a holy war (Jihad) is efficacious with a pious or with a dissolute commander until the day of Resurrection; one does not abandon him. Division of the spoils of war and applying the punishments prescribed by the Law is for the Imams. It is not for anyone to criticize them or contend with them. Handing over the alms-money to them (for distribution) is permissible and efficacious; whoever pays them has fulfilled his obligation whether (the Imam) was pious or dissolute. The collective prayer behind the Imam and those he delegates is valid and complete; both prostrations. Whoever repeats them is an innovator, abandoning the tradition and opposed to the Sunna. There is no virtue in his Friday prayer at all, if he does not believe in praying with the Imams, whoever they are, good or bad; the Sunna is to pray two prostrations with them and consider the matter finished. On that let there be no doubt in your bosom. (Some Essential Hanbali Doctrines from a Credal Statement in Themes of Islamic Civilization, p. 31, 1971).

According to the Hanbali verdict quoted above, anyone and everyone can lead the Muslims in prayer. Abu Hurayra and Abu Sufyan are as much qualified to become prayer-leaders as Abu Bakr.

-www.al-islam.org/restatement

Sallam

*sigh* brother do you think in all my years of shia-Sunni discussion i have not come across this weak rebuttal?

So lets see:

1. Anyone can lead Salat even a Fasiq.

2. Therefore, Abu Bakr leading Salat isnt a big deal.

3. Oh but we forget that the Prophet ordered this and i doubt the Prophet would order a Fasiq to read Salat in his absence.

4. But wait a second Shias (and certain traditions) claim that it was someone else who ordered Abu Bakr to do this. They forget, however, that when the Prophet saw Abu Bakr leading the prayer he smiled in happiness.

6. Can a Fasiq also lead the Hajj like Abu Bakr did?

All your proofs are weak and baseless brother. The restatement you quote cannot even properly refute that Abu Bakr was NOT appointed to lead the prayers. What they do is say " Even if he was appointed", "If it is true he was appointed" etc etc.

Like i said brother over and over again DO NOT try to fool me by quoting certain parts of hsitory and ignoring others.

Sallam

Link to post
Share on other sites
  • Advanced Member
Sallam

*sigh* brother do you think in all my years of shia-Sunni discussion i have not come across this weak rebuttal?

So lets see:

1. Anyone can lead Salat even a Fasiq.

2. Therefore, Abu Bakr leading Salat isnt a big deal.

3. Oh but we forget that the Prophet ordered this and i doubt the Prophet would order a Fasiq to read Salat in his absence.

4. But wait a second Shias (and certain traditions) claim that it was someone else who ordered Abu Bakr to do this. They forget, however, that when the Prophet saw Abu Bakr leading the prayer he smiled in happiness.

6. Can a Fasiq also lead the Hajj like Abu Bakr did?

All your proofs are weak and baseless brother. The restatement you quote cannot even properly refute that Abu Bakr was NOT appointed to lead the prayers. What they do is say " Even if he was appointed", "If it is true he was appointed" etc etc.

Like i said brother over and over again DO NOT try to fool me by quoting certain parts of hsitory and ignoring others.

Sallam

I KNOW that ABu BAkr DIDNT lead the prayers. Just pointing out, that according to Sunni tradition (not Shia), it doesn't make a big deal whether or not he did. In any case, aql is haraam in ur sect (since you have converted to wahhabism it seems). In any case, no one has claimed or said Abu Bakr was a fasiq. Just merely stating a hadeeth from ur beloved narrator.

They forget, however, that when the Prophet saw Abu Bakr leading the prayer he smiled in happiness.

On the contrary, as Sharastini goes on to narrate in the same narration when the Prophet cursed those who refused to join Usama, that teh Holy prophet pbuh in an ailing condition came to the mimber to announce this, and then led the prayers himself. You provide no source. Now who is ignoring parts of history and including own rai? :rolleyes:

Link to post
Share on other sites

THE LAST ILLNESS OF THE PROPHET (sa)

On the anniversary of the attempt to poison the Prophet (sa) he would suffer from its recurring effect and its time had come around once more. It was either the morning after his visit to the cemetery, or a morning shortly thereafter, that the Prophet (sa) experienced an intense headache, the like of which he had never experienced before. Despite his headache he went to the Mosque and led the congregation in the dawn prayer then climbed the pulpit and supplicated for blessings upon those who had been martyred at Uhud. Then he said, "There is a worshiper among the worshipers of Allah to whom Allah has given the choice between this world and that which is with Him. The worshiper has chosen that which is with Allah." Abu Bakr, who was in the congregation, was deeply affected by the Prophet's remark and began to weep, for he knew that the worshiper the Prophet (sa) referred to was non other than Prophet Muhammad (sa) himself, and that he would not be with them for much longer. As Abu Bakr wept, the Prophet (sa) knew that he understood what he had said and said, "O people, the most merciful of men to me in both companionship and generosity is Abu Bakr. If I were to take from all mankind an inseparable companion, it would be Abu Bakr, but companionship and brotherhood in belief is ours until Allah unites us in His Presence."

THE MEETING AT THE POOL

Several homes had been built on to the external wall of the Mosque, and like the apartments of the Prophet's wives, they had doors that opened into the prayer area. As the Prophet (sa) glanced around the Mosque he instructed all the doors except that of Abu Bakr to be walled up. Before descending from the pulpit the Prophet (sa) spoke once more saying, "I go before you, and I am your witness. Your meeting with me is at the Pool. As I stand here, indeed I see it. I do not fear for you on account of reversion to idolatry, rather, it is the world I fear for you if you seek to vie with one another for its gain." Then the Prophet (sa) left the Mosque and returned to the apartment of Lady Maymunah. The Prophet's headache worsened as the signs of fever appeared but after having rested for a while he went briefly to Lady Ayesha's apartment to let her know he was unwell. Lady Ayesha was also suffering from a headache and said as the Prophet (sa) entered, "Oh my head!" Whereupon the Prophet (sa) said: "No, Ayesha it is indeed my head." The Prophet (sa) looked at her gentle face to see if perhaps she too was suffering from a life threatening sickness but could see no sign then said, "Would that it might be whilst I am alive, so that I might ask forgiveness for you and supplicate for mercy upon you, then shroud and pray over you, then bury you." Lady Ayesha had never heard the Prophet (sa) speak like this before and when she looked at is face she could see he was very unwell but tried to make light of the situation and brought a smile to his face. Then he repeated, "No, it is indeed my head," and returned to Lady Maymunah's apartment. When the Prophet (sa) was in good health, Lady Ayesha heard him say, "A Prophet never dies until he as been shown his place in Paradise and is then given the option to live or die." And when she learned of the Prophet's brief sermon that morning she knew that he would not be with her for much longer. Despite the worsening of his illness, Prophet Muhammad (sa) continued to led his congregation in prayer. As is sickness intensified he offered the prayer in the sitting position and told the congregation to do likewise. The Prophet (sa) was now so weak and exhausted that when he returned to the apartment of the wife in whose turn it was asked, "Where am I tomorrow, and where the next day?" so his wife told him. His wife sensed that he wished to be in Lady Ayesha's apartment and called her co-wives together who went to him saying, "O Messenger of Allah, we have given our days with you to our sister Ayesha." The Prophet (sa) gratefully accepted their loving kindness and with the assistance of Abbas and Ali, the Prophet (sa) was helped to Lady Ayesha's apartment.

OSAMA, COMMANDER OF THE ARMY

As the Prophet (sa) lay in his feverish state in Lady Ayesha’s apartment, word reached him that preparations for the army's march now under the command of Osama had slowed down. Despite his suffering, the Prophet (sa) felt the necessity to confirm Osama's position, so he asked his wives to bring seven skins of water, each from a different well, and for the water to be poured over him. Lady Hafsa fetched a tub and he sat in it while the water was poured gently over him to reduce his fever. His wives dressed him and wrapped cloth around his head and with two of his companions supporting him he went into the Mosque and sat down upon the pulpit then said, "O people, dispatch Osama with his army. You question his leadership as you questioned his father's before him, yet he is worthy to take command, just as his father was." Then, with the help of his companions the Prophet (sa) was assisted back to Lady Ayesha's apartment. Preparations for the march resumed in earnest and soon after they were ready to march. Osama led the army out of Medina but just three miles outside the City limits, at a placed called Jurf, he called upon them to halt and strike camp.

ABU BAKR LEADS THE PRAYER

It was time for the next prayer to be offered but the Prophet was no longer able to lead the prayer, not even from the sitting position. The Prophet (sa) told his wives to ask Abu Bakr to lead the prayer. Lady Ayesha said, "O Messenger of Allah (sa), Abu Bakr is a very tender-hearted man, his voice is not strong and is given to weeping when he recites the Koran," and suggested that perhaps Omar should lead the prayer. However, the Prophet (sa) insisted upon Abu Bakr. Lady Ayesha glanced at Lady Hafsa to try to enlist her help, but the Prophet (sa) would not hear of it and said, "You are like the women that were with Joseph. Inform Abu Bakr that he is to lead the prayer. Let those who wish to blame find fault and let the ambitious aspire. Allah and the believers will not have it otherwise," and he repeated the last sentence three times, whereupon Abu Bakr led the prayer for the remaining days of his illness.

THE TIME OF DEPARTURE

All the wives of the Prophet (sa) comforted and tenderly cared for the Prophet. When visitors entered they would often find him with his head cradled upon Lady Ayesha's lap or propped up so that he rested against her chest. The Prophet's beloved daughter, Lady Fatima, was a constant visitor and upon her arrival Lady Ayesha would withdraw so that they could spend some time alone together. On one such occasion the Prophet (sa) called Lady Fatima to his side and told her something in secret that caused her to weep. Then he spoke to her again with comforting words and she began to laugh. After his soul had been taken from him, and it became obligatory that his words should not be concealed, Lady Ayesha asked what the Prophet (sa) had said to her that caused her to weep then laugh, she said, "I wept when he told me he was about to die from his illness, but when he told me I would be the first of his family to join him, I became happy and laughed."

AL MAHDI, THE GUIDED LEADER, THE RESTORER OF THE ISLAMIC RELIGION

Ali, Lady Fatima's husband was another frequent visitor to the Prophet (sa) during this time. One day as he entered the room he found his wife crying as she sat beside her father, and the Messenger of Allah (sa) raised his tired eyes to look up at her and asked, "O Fatima, what makes you cry?" She replied, "I fear the loss after you." With gentleness of voice he said, "Don't you know that Allah, the Mighty, the Glorified, looked to the earth once and chose your father and sent him with His Message; then He looked once more to the earth and chose your husband and made known to me that I should let you marry him? O Fatima, we are the Dwellers of a House, and Allah has given us seven merits which He never gave to anyone else before, and they will not be given to anyone after us." Then, referring to the descendants of his grandsons, Hasan and Husain, he said, ‘By He who sends me with the truth, amongst both of them is Al Mahdi of this nation. When life is full of murder and strife, and trials increase, and roads are blocked, and people start to attack one another, and the elderly are not merciful to the young, nor the young merciful to the old, Allah, the Mighty, the Glorified, will send from them (Hasan and Husain) at the end of time, one who will open the fortress of error, and open hearts that have been sealed, then restore the Religion as I established it in the beginning. He will fill the world with justice to the extent that it has been filled with oppression."

OSAMA'S RETURN TO MEDINA

Osama could not bear to leave the Prophet (sa) in such condition so he returned to Medina to visit him. As he entered the room, he found the Prophet (sa) to be conscious, but too ill to speak. Osama bent over and kissed him whereupon the Prophet (sa) raised his hand, with his palm facing upwards in supplication for blessings upon Osama, Osama felt it would be the last time he would see the Prophet (sa) in this life and left with great sadness to return to the camp. The next day, Monday, 12th of Rabi 1, the Prophet's fever eased, and although he was extremely weak he summoned all his energy and was assisted to the Mosque by Thawban and Fadl. The dawn prayer had already commenced and when the congregation realized he was amongst them they were overjoyed. As he saw them at prayer his face shone with great happiness in a way that Anas was heard to say later on, "I have never seen the Prophet's face more beautiful than it was at that hour." Abu Bakr, who was leading the prayer, sensed his presence and so without turning his head, which would annul the prayer, he stepped back for the Prophet (sa) to continue its leadership. However, the Prophet (sa) placed his hand on his shoulder and nudged him to resume whilst he seated himself by his side and offered his prayer with him. After the prayer, the Prophet (sa) remained for sometime in the Mosque and the congregation rejoiced as they thought his condition had taken a turn for the better. Soon after Osama, who was so very worried about the Prophet's condition, returned to Medina yet again and was overjoyed to see that he was able to pray once again in the Mosque. The Prophet (sa) told Osama: "Go forth, with the blessings of Allah." Whereupon Osama greeted him with peace then took his leave with a cheerful heart and ordered his army to prepare themselves to resume the march. Fadl and Thawban helped the Prophet (sa) to return to Lady Ayesha's room whilst Ali and Abbas followed them, however, the Prophet (sa) was very tired and so they did not stay long. As they left the apartment, anxious inquirers asked after the Prophet's health, whereupon Ali replied, "Praise be to Allah, he is better." However, Abbas had noticed a certain look upon the Prophet's face and told Ali: 'By Allah, in three days, you will be governed by some one else. And by Allah, I feel that the Messenger of Allah (sa) will die from this sickness, for I know the look of death upon the face of the children of Abdul Muttalib. Let us go to him and ask who is to receive the caliphate. If it is given to us we will know what to do, but if it is given to someone else we will inform him so that he may tell the new caliph to take care of us." But Ali remembered how in the past when people had asked the Prophet (sa) for a position he would refuse so he replied, "By Allah, if we ask the Messenger of Allah (sa) for it and he refuses to give it to us, the people will never give it to us after that. By Allah, I will not ask the Messenger of Allah (sa) for it." Meanwhile, Abdur Rahman, Lady Ayesha's brother had entered the apartment to visit the Prophet (sa) and in his hand was his "siwak", which is part of the root of a tree, splayed at the end for use as a toothbrush. Lady Ayesha knew how much the Prophet (sa) loved his teeth to be clean so she asked Abdur Rahman if she might use it. Abdur Rahman nodded and she softened the splayed ends then cleaned his teeth. With great respect, the Angel of Death appeared to the Prophet (sa) and asked his permission to take away his precious soul, whereupon he gave his permission. Never before or after this time has the Angel of Death ever asked anyone for their permission to take away their soul. The throes of death were evident upon his face as he dipped his hand into a jug of water then rubbed his wetted hand over his face uttering the words, "There is no god except Allah, death has its agonies." Then he lapsed into a state of unconsciousness for a while and as he regained consciousness for the last time he gazed upwards towards the ceiling and raised his hands saying, "O Allah, with the highest companion," until he could no longer raise them as the angels gently took away his very precious soul. The last Prophet and Messenger of Allah (sa) had passed away at the age of sixty-three. Immense sadness descended upon the household and his wives began to weep, as, with tender loving care, Lady Ayesha laid his head gently down upon the pillow and covered him with a cloak. It was indeed the saddest occasion ever known and so Allah in His Mercy sent angels to comfort his beloved family. Later, Lady Ayesha was heard to say concerning the severity of his pangs of death, "After having seen those of the Prophet (sa), I have never disliked seeing those of anyone else."

OSAMA'S RETURN

When it became apparent that the Messenger of Allah (sa) had reached the final throes of death, Umm Ayman sent word to Osama of his condition. The army had already broken camp and were on the point of marching northward, but as soon as Osama received the news he ordered their return to Medina. Several of the more senior companions were with Osama amongst whom was Omar who found it difficult to accept the fact that the Prophet (sa) would die before them. Omar had misunderstood a verse in the Koran and thought that the Prophet (sa) would outlive not only his generation but generations yet unborn. Upon his arrival in Medina he went directly to the Mosque and addressed the heart-broken congregation, who were for the most part Muhajir, assuring them that the Prophet (sa) was only absent in spirit and would return.

ABU BAKR LEARNS OF THE PROPHET'S DEATH

Meanwhile, the news of the Prophet's passing had just reached Abu Bakr, who had been visiting his new wife Habiba, whereupon he jumped upon his horse and rode straight to Lady Ayesha's apartment. Upon his arrival he gently drew back the cloak covering the Prophet's face and kissed him saying, "Dearer than my father and mother, you have tasted death which Allah has decreed for you. Death will never overtake you again." Then, with sadness of heart, he gently covered his blessed face, and went into the Mosque where Omar was still speaking with great passion. As Abu Bakr approached Omar he said, "Gently, Omar. Hear what I have to say.' But Omar continued, then, when the congregation saw that Abu Bakr had something to say, they turned towards him to listen. Before Abu Bakr began to speak he exalted Allah then said, "O people, whosoever was inclined to worship Muhammad -- in truth Muhammad is dead, but whosoever worships Allah, in truth Allah is Alive and does not die." Then he recited verses from the Koran:

"Muhammad is not except a Messenger; Messengers have passed away before him. If he dies or is killed will you turn about on your heels? And he who turns on his heels will not harm Allah a thing. Allah will recompense the thankful." Koran 3:144

The verse comforted the believers, who, until that moment although the verse was well known, had not recalled it during this time of grief. When Omar heard this verse he was so overcome that his knees weakened and he fell to the ground as he accepted the fact that the Prophet (sa) had been taken from them. Whilst Abu Bakr and Omar were in the Mosque, Talha and Zubair returned with Ali to his home to mourn their loss.

A MATTER OF SUCCESSION

Meanwhile the Ansars, had met together in their assembly room to share their grief and the matter of their leadership arose. Several expressed their opinion that they, the Ansars, should have authority over the tribes now that the Prophet (sa) was no longer with them. When news of the discussion reached Abu Bakr, Omar encouraged Abu Bakr to go with him and Ubayda to the assembly room. As they entered one of the Ansars had started to address the assembly on behalf of himself and his tribe. He had started by exalting Allah and had just said, "We are the Ansars, helpers of Allah, the fighters of Islam," then he saw the three and continued saying, "and you, the Muhajir, the emigrants, are like us for a number of your people have settled amongst us," and continued to praise both parties, however the speech failed to recognize the very special position the Muhajirs held for amongst them were not only relatives of the Prophet (sa) whom he had praised and supplicated for, but also those who had been the first followers of the Prophet (sa) and sacrificed everything they owned in order to follow him. It was evident to Abu Bakr and his companions that if they were left to elect their own leader then other tribes would do likewise. The result would be that the unity of Muslims would begin to unravel, and that there would no longer be one, overall authoritative leader, caliph, to whom all would be obliged to follow but many -- the result of such a situation is apparent in the demise of Muslims today. The Ansar had finished his speech and Omar wanted to speak but Abu Bakr gestured to him to refrain and spoke to the assembly in a way that was both tactful but firm. He reminded them that Islam had spread throughout Arabia and was no longer limited just to Mecca and Medina, and that Arabs from other parts of Arabia would not accept a leader other than a Koraysh. He concluded his speech by taking hold of the hands of his two companions and raising them saying, "I offer you your choice of these two men, give your allegiance to whichever one of these you will." Whereupon one of the Ansars suggested that there should be two authorities. Omar spoke saying, "O Ansars, don't you realize that the Messenger of Allah (sa) ordered Abu Bakr to lead the prayer?" and they replied that they did, "then," continued Omar, "which of you will take precedence over him?" Until that moment they had not considered the importance of Abu Bakr leading the prayer whereupon in one voice they said, "May Allah forbid that we take precedence over him!" and the matter of the caliphate was determined as Omar caught hold of Abu Bakr's hand and pledged allegiance to him. Omar's companion followed his initiative, then others of the Muhajir, who had by then joined them, pledged their allegiance followed by the Ansars. The following morning, before Abu Bakr led the prayer he sat upon the pulpit whilst Omar got up and addressed the congregation inviting them to pledge their allegiance to Abu Bakr, of whom he referred to as being the best among them, the Companion of the Messenger of Allah, and the second of the two in the cave. With the exception of Ali, who did so later, all stepped forward and pledged their allegiance to Abu Bakr. After the allegiance had been taken, Abu Bakr exalted Allah and thanked Him, then addressed the congregation saying, "I have been given authority over you. However, I am not the best of you. If I do well, help me; but if I do wrong, correct me. Since regard for truth is loyalty, whereas disregard for truth is treachery. Allah willing, those who are weak amongst you will be supported by me until I have secured your rights. Allah willing, the strong among you shall be weak with me until I have exacted the rights of others. Obey me as long as I obey Allah and His Messenger (sa), but, if I disobey Allah and His Messenger (sa), you do not owe obedience to me. Arise now for prayer, may Allah have mercy upon you."

THE PLACE OF REST

It was time for the Prophet (sa) to be laid to rest, however, the companions were uncertain how they should best prepare him, for he was not like ordinary men. Then, Allah in His Mercy caused a deep slumber to overtake them in which each heard a voice saying, "Wash the Prophet (sa) with his garment upon him." When they awoke they told each other of the voice and were happy to know that they had all heard the same instruction so they went to Lady Ayesha's apartment where he lay to give him his final bath. When they reached Lady Ayesha's apartment, Aws, Khawli's son from the tribe of Khazraj pleaded with Ali to let him represent the Ansars. Ali agreed and he entered with them. Abbas and his sons Fadl and Kitham helped Ali to turn his body whilst Osama, assisted by Shukran and the attendant of the Prophet (sa) poured the warmed water over him. The Prophet (sa) had passed away wearing a long woolen robe and now that it had been wetted, Ali gently rubbed his hand over it and as he did he said, "Dearer than my father and my mother, how excellent you are in both life and death," and the Prophet (sa) appeared to all who saw him just as if he was asleep. The matter now arose as to where he should be laid to rest. Some thought that it should be near the graves of his daughters and his son Abraham, whilst others where of the opinion that he should be buried in the Mosque. The matter was resolved when Abu Bakr told them that he had heard the Prophet (sa) once say, "No Prophet dies except he is buried where he died." Whereupon a grave was dug in the floor of Lady Ayesha's room near the bed on which he lay. As the Prophet (sa) was being covered by earth, Lady Fatima said, "How can you reconcile yourselves, pouring dust over the Messenger of Allah (sa)?" Grief engulfed the City, even Yazid, the Prophet's donkey missed his caring master so much that he pined himself away, then jumped into a well where he died. As the Prophet (sa) had prophesied, Lady Fatima joined him but a few months later. Ali gave his allegiance to Abu Bakr saying, "We are well aware of your position and what Allah has given you. It is not on account of jealousy or of any benefit He has caused to befall you, rather, it was because the matter was decided without consultation, thereby leaving us with no option. We felt that we had some claim on account of our nearness in kinship to the Messenger of Allah (sa)." When Abu Bakr heard these touching words his eyes overflowed with tears and said, "By Him in whose hand is my soul, I would rather that all should be well between me and the family of the Messenger of Allah (sa) than between me and my own family." That same morning at the time of the mid-day prayer, Ali pledged his allegiance to Abu Bakr in the Mosque for all to witness, and all was well.

Link to post
Share on other sites
Guest Truepath123

Sallam,

Fatah you left out the part about Umar "the great", calling the Prophet "ill" when the Prophet asked for a pen and a paper.....

Narrated 'Ubaidullah bin 'Abdullah: Ibn 'Abbas said, "When the ailment of the Prophet became worse, he said, 'Bring for me (writing) paper and I will write for you a statement after which you will not go astray.' But 'Umar said, 'The Prophet is seriously ill, and we have got Allah's Book with us and that is sufficient for us.' But the companions of the Prophet differed about this and there was a hue and cry. On that the Prophet said to them, 'Go away (and leave me alone). It is not right that you should quarrel in front of me." Ibn 'Abbas came out saying, "It was most unfortunate (a great disaster) that Allah's Apostle was prevented from writing that statement for them because of their disagreement and noise."[75]

**** The following account was taken from al-Bukhari's "genuine" (sahih) collection of hadiths, accessed from the Internet (Linkname: Hadith Bukhari (English Translation); URL: http://www.isnet.org/cgi-bin/hadith/bukhari), trans. and ed. anonymous, Volume 1, Book 3, Number 114.

-Samantha

Edited by Truepath123
Link to post
Share on other sites
  • 1 year later...
Sallam,

Fatah you left out the part about Umar "the great", calling the Prophet "ill" when the Prophet asked for a pen and a paper..... 

Narrated 'Ubaidullah bin 'Abdullah: Ibn 'Abbas said, "When the ailment of the Prophet became worse, he said, 'Bring for me (writing) paper and I will write for you a statement after which you will not go astray.' But 'Umar said, 'The Prophet is seriously ill, and we have got Allah's Book with us and that is sufficient for us.' But the companions of the Prophet differed about this and there was a hue and cry. On that the Prophet said to them, 'Go away (and leave me alone). It is not right that you should quarrel in front of me." Ibn 'Abbas came out saying, "It was most unfortunate (a great disaster) that Allah's Apostle was prevented from writing that statement for them because of their disagreement and noise."[75]

**** The following account was taken from al-Bukhari's "genuine" (sahih) collection of hadiths, accessed from the Internet (Linkname: Hadith Bukhari (English Translation); URL: http://www.isnet.org/cgi-bin/hadith/bukhari), trans. and ed. anonymous, Volume 1, Book 3, Number 114.

-Samantha

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

SalAam Alaiqum

Yaa Ali Madad

Bukhari changed the words of the hadees

---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Quote from link below

http://www.al-islam.org/ask/8.html#2

Yes! This is the calamity of Thursday wherein 'Umar played a heroic role, he opposed the Prophet (S.A.W.), prevented him from writing, using those vile words which contradict the book of Allah, i.e., when he said the Prophet was hallucinating. Al-Bukhari and Muslim transmitted it here with the proper words which 'Umar uttered, and did not change it as long as the name of 'Umar was not mentioned. The attribution of this vile saying to an unknown person did not harm [him].

However, when the name of 'Umar came up in the narration which mentions that he is the one who uttered [the words], it became difficult for al-Bukhari and Muslim to leave it as it was; for it disparages the Caliph and showed his real naked truth, uncovering the scope of his boldness with the position of the Prophet of Allah (P) and that he used to oppose him during his life in most matters. Muslim and al-Bukhari and those like them, knew that these words alone were enough to influence the feelings of every Muslim - even the ahl al-sunna - against the Caliph, so they resorted to tampering with it. For this is their well known occupation in such matters. They therefore changed the word "hallucinate" to "overcome with pain" [so as] to do away with the evil expression. The following is what Muslim and al-Bukhari related regarding the same catastrophic incident:

"On the authority of Ibn 'Abbas who said: 'When death approached the Prophet of Allah, there were some men in [his] home, among them 'Umar b. al-Khattab. The Prophet said: 'Bring me paper so that I may write for you [so that] you will not go astray after it'. 'Umar said: 'The Prophet has been overcome by pain, you have the Qur'an, the book of Allah is sufficient for us'. The members of the household differed and argued. Among them were those who said: 'Bring it so that the Prophet may write for you a letter [due to which] you will never go astray'. There were those who said as 'Umar said. When the vain talk and differences intensified in the Prophet's presence, he said to them: 'Go away'! 'Abd Allah b. Mas'ud said: 'And Ibn 'Abbas used to say: 'Indeed the catastrophe of all catastrophes was what occurred between the Prophet of Allah's [wanting to] write for them that letter and their dissension and wrangling'".

Although Muslim took [the narration] from his teacher al-Bukhari, we say to al-Bukhari no matter how much you edited the words, and no matter how much you attempted to hide the facts, what you have reported is sufficient and a proof against you and your master 'Umar. Because the words "hallucinate" (and its meaning is delusion) or "overcome by pain" lead to the same conclusion; for he who researches carefully will observe that even today, people say "Poor fellow! He was overcome by fever until he became delirious".

Especially if we add his words "You have the Qur'an, and the book of God is sufficient for us"; this means that the period of [dependence on] the Prophet (P) had ended and his existence had become the same as his non-existence.

We dare any scholar who has conscience to study carefully this occurrence only without any precommitments or hindrances; you will find him becoming furious with the Caliph who prevented the community from [attaining] guidance, and was the immediate cause for its straying. ......................................

http://www.al-islam.org/ask/8.html#2

Allah Hafiz

Yaa Ali Madad

Hussainyet Zindabad

yazeediyet Murdabad

Firoz Ali

Edited by Firoz Ali
Link to post
Share on other sites

Join the conversation

You are posting as a guest. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.
Note: Your post will require moderator approval before it will be visible.

Guest
Reply to this topic...

×   Pasted as rich text.   Paste as plain text instead

  Only 75 emoji are allowed.

×   Your link has been automatically embedded.   Display as a link instead

×   Your previous content has been restored.   Clear editor

×   You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL.

×
×
  • Create New...