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Ya Aba 3abdillah

A question to the americans. . . - E.g. way2go and just_a_kafer

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What do you guys think of the use of depleted uranium by the United States during the gulf war? Depleted uranium has billion year bio-degrading process, so it's safe to say it's gonna be there forever.

The use of the uranium has caused cancer rates to soar, and those effected cannot have children because the children are born deformed.

Not only has it effected the iraqi people, but also many american and british soldiers. You just have to read on the internet the experiences of gulf-war veterans. You'd be shocked to the core.

What is your view on this truely genocidal act? Sanctions aren't killing the 3000 per month iraqi children, it's actually the depleted uranium, which, due to sanctions, cannot be treated.

Also, although there are sanctions, millions of barrells of oil travels from saddams oil fields to turkey everyday, under the US noses, they turn a blind eye. This is no rumor either, the story was aired on Australias 60 Minutes 2 weeks ago, and i can give you the URL no probs.

What do you make of the US hypocricy, and of the blatant cold-hearted use of depleted uranium in iraq, knowing full well, it didn't have to be used for the US to reach its military goals???

cheers

G'day

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Salam alaikum wa rahmatullahi wa barakatuhu,

The US Government is definitely cold-hearted, and they are hypocrits.  They never put human beings' lives first, it's their greed and themselves before everything else.

And not enough american/western people get up and act, because they're too lazy and couldn't be bothered.  They wont bother in knowing the truth either, they're too busy with their comfortable lives.

:angry:  :angry:

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Assalamu Alaykum,

               I hadn't really any idea that the U.S. had used uranium on the Iraqis, ya Allah (swt)!!!  Isn't about time the U.N. threw the book at 'em, or something be done about this??  Just a bold faced act of cruelty... again!

                                             Wa alaikum as salaam

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Let me say up front that I'm not all that familiar about depleted uranium. I know the government has acknowledged that it has tested these radioactive weapons at U.S. bases in Okinawa, Japan, Vieques, Puerto Rico, South Korea and 25 places in this country. This leads me to believe that they were not aware of their long term effects.

Uranium is twice as heavy as lead, it's a heavy metal so weapons made with depleted uranium have a greater range, are highly accurate and burns intensely on impact. More so than conventional weapons.

I am against all nuclear, chemical and biological weapons of any kind. War is a horrific thing as it is and it's inhumane and cruel for them to then have to suffer from cancer, birth defects and landmines. This is inconceivable to me.

Why can't a panel of scientists from all over the world, who are familiar with these resources (like weapons inspecters) be put in place to inspect every country and oversee the dismanteling and destruction (if that's possible without further contamination). Every country should comply. For all of our very survival.

Our streams, rivers and lakes are all contaminated in this country by chemicals. Even our ground water is not safe. Cancer is almost epidemic over here and you know it has to be from contaminates. The plant foods are watered with this water, our livestock are drinking this water. It's killing us.

Islam wishes for our destruction. They don't need to do a thing. Wait around long enough, we're self destructing.

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A question to the americans. . ., E.g. way2go and just_a_kafer

Ok….risking of being called the ‘devil’s advocate’ :o, I will attempt to address the multitude of issues raised in your post, however before I begin to do so I’d like you to ponder on a quote by George Patton and tell me if his idea on the object of war can be contested, or it does not apply to [b:post_uid0]every[/b:post_uid0] country engaged in war!

[b:post_uid0]The object of war is not to die for your country but to make the other [Edited Out] die for his![/b:post_uid0]

ok, here she goes………

DU is the best armor penetrating material there is! The next closest thing to that, with a 40% less efficiency, is ?tungsten based ammo. The effectiveness of such ammo is well illustrated with the fact that there where only about a dozen (M1A1) tanks (with DU armor) where damaged versus the 4000 thousand Iraqi tank losses, and even those losses where due to friendly fire! It turned out that [b:post_uid0]only[/b:post_uid0] DU shells where able to penetrate the DU armor plates of the Abram’s.

As is the case with every new weapon system and ammunition, I’m sure, there was an extensive research in to the qualities and sideffects of the DU and I’m also sure that [b:post_uid0]some[/b:post_uid0] of its harmful sideffects where accepted as a trade off for its unsurpassed armor penetrating qualities, however suggesting that the DU ammo is the [b:post_uid0]only[/b:post_uid0] factor in causing the Gulf War syndrome, is wrong and so is the assumption that the government [b:post_uid0]willingly[/b:post_uid0] would expose its troops to above average risks. Just think about it for a moment! Lets say the government is fully aware of the residual effects of spent DU ammo, yet still, they willingly expose the GI’s to it. Don’t you think that upon exposing the story and since the US army is not composed of conscripts, the number of people willing to sign up for duty would diminish to almost nothing and the government would be liable for colossal law suit’s? For the very same reasons, and topped with the fact that [b:post_uid0]it is in Saddam’s best interest[/b:post_uid0] to show the suffering of the Iraqi children as an example of the western brutality, maintaining that the increased number of cancer cases in Iraq are caused by [b:post_uid0]DU exclusively[/b:post_uid0] and their treatment being blocked by the sanctions [b:post_uid0]only[/b:post_uid0] IMO is a faulty assessment. [b:post_uid0]As long he controls who lives or dies in Iraq[/b:post_uid0] and as long as there are billions of dollars to be spent on projects like this and as you’ve pointed out, illegal oil revenues are pouring in not only from Turkey and Jordan but also and in special from Syria, Saddam has no real case claiming the lack of funds for medical treatment as a cause.  

Also, although there are sanctions, millions of barrells of oil travels from saddams oil fields to turkey everyday, under the US noses, they turn a blind eye. This is no rumor either, the story was aired on Australias 60 Minutes 2 weeks ago, and i can give you the URL no probs.

Read about one of the many reasons why the US is turning a blind eye to Iraqi oil smugglings not only through Turkey and Syria but the list also includes Jordan and Iran!

What do you make of the US hypocricy, and of the blatant cold-hearted use of depleted uranium in iraq, knowing full well, it didn't have to be used for the US to reach its military goals???

The reason why most nations who possess DU ammo (the list includes Canada as well! ) is not willing to sign a moratorium on using it is because it’s unique and unsurpassed characteristics, being the only ammo able to penetrate deep bunkers and the DU armor plates. As I’ve said B4, the universally adopted norm in any warfare is to make the other die for your cause and while he does that, you will try to keep your causalities to the minimum and inflict as much damage as you can and that is the exact reason why a number of countries even from the ME are actively in a pursuit of producing/procuring the A bomb which they if in need, despite the terrible side effects, will use without hesitation……………..

Kafir

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g'day

ok, so basically what you guys are saying is, we don't want to use it, but just like the bomb that killed 100,000 innocent women and children in japan, we have no choice but to use it.

Personally (and from the way america regards itself highly as having the best tech) i think america could have taken out the iraqi army without having to have use DU. I've heard the armor penetration argument before, and i think it's pretty lame.

way2go, "self destruction" is the consequences of having a materialistic capitalistic money making motivated society, where the mighty dollar runs the world. "Materialism is the root of all evils" (money is the root of all evils).

:(  :(

http://csf.colorado.edu/envtecsoc/2001/msg00624.html

http://www.benjaminforiraq.org/contaminazioneGB.htm

http://www.crystalbay.net/town/iraqpictures.html

http://www.megastories.com/iraq/children/children.htm

http://www.cam.ac.uk/societies/casi/info/g...r-garfield.html

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ok, so basically what you guys are saying is, we don't want to use it, but just like the bomb that killed 100,000 innocent women and children in japan, we have no choice but to use it.

Did I basically say that, or that was only a convenient way of including yet one more 'constant variable'??? :wacko: If indeed I did 'basically' say that, then please feel free to point me to that part........if you don't mind doing so of course!

Personally (and from the way america regards itself highly as having the best tech) i think america could have taken out the iraqi army without having to have use DU.

...and I respect what you think, however since you're in the ?IT industry, I believe you're unlikely to be qualified to make a valid assesment regarding the best course of action for the army to take.... besides the DU ammo is part of the "best tech" you've mentioned....... further more:

As I’ve said B4, the universally adopted norm in any warfare is to make the other die for your cause and while he does that, you will try to keep your causalities to the minimum and inflict as much damage as you can

I've heard the armor penetration argument before, and i think it's pretty lame.

.... as I've mentioned before, you're entitled to and I do respect your opinion however your argument would be substantially more convincing if you could, perhaps back it up with some data insted of just dissmissing mine for beeing "lame".....no?

Kafir

Edited By Just_a_Kafer on 1033879556

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a few points I wanted to add to your original post..

The DU in Iraq is still uncleaned, meaning within the past 11 years, every wind that blows is carrying that DU from the source to new non-infected places.

Another interesting fact is that Iraq is denied the access to any materials or chemicals that would clean that.  It's banned on the U.N list for exporting into Iraq.

One last fact, there is what's called a "gulf war syndrom" that many soldiers who handled or even were close to that, have died.  Imagine the effect when it's let out in the environemnt.

Just a few interesting things to think about..

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[i hadn't really any idea that the U.S. had used uranium on the Iraqis, ya Allah (swt)!!!  Isn't about time the U.N. threw the book at 'em, or something be done about this??  Just a bold faced act of cruelty... again!

]

No one threw the book at Saddam for using chemical and biological weapons on the Iranians. They waited until Kuwait and Saudi Arabia came crying to the UN for help to protect their oil.

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A couple points. Japan attacked us first. We also had many innocent people die, but of course, to Islam it doesn't seem to matter. American lives are worth less than dogs, right?

We have to take care of our own, sir, because if we don't, who else will? You folk certainly won't give a hoot!!!

As for Iraq. If cancer rates in Iraq are increasing, blame Saddam. He's the one hiding his chemical and biological weapons among his people. He's the one who spend millions building more palaces, all 50 of them, while his people are suffering. Are they palaces, or just a cover for weapons storage?

Here's a link with facts regarding DU that you may find interesting:

http://www.who.int/inf-fs/en/fact257.html

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(salam)

Is the US government letting down its own people.  How long will they be fooled.

Just done a search on a story I had seen on TV in UK:

http://www.google.com/search?....+Search

Same for Britain:

http://www.antenna.nl/wise/463-464/4600.html

http://www.google.com/search?....+Search

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk/scotland/1873534.stm

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/health/1118876.stm

As for Afghanistan. What types of weapons were used there. They wern't just lunch packets:

http://www.google.com/search?....+Search

http://www.google.com/search?....+Search

http://www.afsc.org/pwork/0204/020411.htm

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salam alaikum ,I think that the army knew fully well what they were inflicting on the Iraqi people, I mean they have the best scientists in the world and even a non-scientist would know that uranium is radioactive and can cause cancers and other problems. But hey - depleted Uranium is around in abundance from all the nuclear power stations why not use it and experiment with it on the Iraqis - that is probably the view they took, wsalams

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Guest Syed Aatif Ali B.

so Mr. Way2go (if that is indeed your gender)   :D

     According to your logic just because the US was attacked first, that gives them the reason to attack civilians...ok. I'm assuming that your reason is that the atomic bomb would save American lives and put pressure on the Japanese to surrender. Which is in America's interest.

     If we are to apply that same idea to all situations, Al Qaeda had the right to attack the WTC in an attempt to detroy America's strength: the economy... because the US had promised to leave their bases in Saudi after the Gulf War and did NOT. It is the bankers and corporations which run America and ultimately pay tax dollars for the military. Which is in the interests of Muslims worldwide to remove from their homelands.

     Let me state clearly that Sept 11 upset me as it did many Americans, but the US is commiting a Sept 11 every day on the Muslim world. It is entirely selfish and invites the wrath of wackos like Al Qaeda.

     But rather than argue over who started it, which seems rather childish, why don't we discuss the application of ethics behind attacking civilians which America and Islam both condemn? I would be happy to discuss that.  

Peace out,

Syed Aatif    :)

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so Mr. Way2go (if that is indeed your gender)   :D

     According to your logic just because the US was attacked first, that gives them the reason to attack civilians...ok. I'm assuming that your reason is that the atomic bomb would save American lives and put pressure on the Japanese to surrender. Which is in America's interest.

     

     Let me state clearly that Sept 11 upset me as it did many Americans, but the US is commiting a Sept 11 every day on the Muslim world. It is entirely selfish and invites the wrath of wackos like Al Qaeda.

     But rather than argue over who started it, which seems rather childish, why don't we discuss the application of ethics behind attacking civilians which America and Islam both condemn? I would be happy to discuss that.  

Peace out,

Syed Aatif    :)

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salam alaikum, it is a fact that 1200 Afghan civilians died as a result of US bombing not al-qaeda, or the Northern Alliance they died as a result of US bombing that is a fact. But then that is just collateral damage - and remember these are just the deaths accounted - who knows the real toll. And along with the 500,000 Iraqi children their died their were also numerous Iraqi civilians who died due to the bombing and as a result of the aftermath of the war, wsalams

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bismillah

(salam)

I know most of you already realize this but, the American government does not represent the ideas of all Americans.  Most are content with the lies we are fed because the truth would upset the comfort of their lives in McAmerica.  But not all.  Some see the truth and reject their lies and wicked behavior.  But, the wickedness is well entrenched and will take much effort to remove.      

The problem is not just with the Christians and Jews here either.  Some Muslim brothers come here and strive to "prove their Americanism", as seen when ISNA "forgot" to mention the suffering of our Palestinian brothers, but most are working for a better America, a more just America, and through that, a better, more just world.

I'm just saying not all American's are like Bush, many American's do not even like Bush himself.

  (salam)

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[b:post_uid0]Absolutely fascinating…….[/b:post_uid0]

We’ve started out on debating the [b:post_uid0]DU ammo,[/b:post_uid0] its presumed [b:post_uid0]exclusive root[/b:post_uid0] for the ‘Gulf’ syndrome, the [b:post_uid0]assumption[/b:post_uid0] that children in Iraq are dying [b:post_uid0]only[/b:post_uid0] because of the sanctions imposed by the US and the [b:post_uid0]hypocrisy[/b:post_uid0] of the US letting Iraq smuggle and sell oil via Turkey.

To my [b:post_uid0]great surprise[/b:post_uid0] uh?? we where able to touch bases on Hiroshima & Nagasaki, and the radiation experiments in the US, decided that Saddam, Bush, Sharon and ?Arafat do belong in the same camp, that the US somewhat deserved what 9/11 because they’ve ?promised to Osama bin Laden, [b:post_uid0](who is a the elected leader of ??? country)[/b:post_uid0] that they will get out of Saudi Arabia after the Gulf War, suicide bombers, religious affiliations, the [b:post_uid0]fact[/b:post_uid0] that 1200 Afghans where killed by the US,  and finally, keeping with the best traditions, we’ve also [b:post_uid0]managed to bring Israel in to the picture[/b:post_uid0] via its Gill/Spike weapon system which incidentally uses a [b:post_uid0] tandem warhead![/b:post_uid0] In the light of all these please allow me also to [b:post_uid0]contribute[/b:post_uid0] to this absolutely fascinating thread! :s

Kafir

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Guest Syed Aatif Ali B.

Mr. Way2go,

   Touchy touchy! I didn't claim that you were Jewish...I'm still just trying to find out if you're male or female  :D  Btw, if you think that the US is above attacking the Muslim world, just look how they treat their own citizens and supported the Nazis in WWII until it clashed with their interests. You would have to be completely ignoring history to say that the US gov't never had a racist and inhuman policy when treating blacks or that they had no problem killing over 3 million Vietnamese.  

   Now about Israeli settlers...Do I really care if a thief who steals my land is poor or not? NO! Do I think it's ok if a guy is willing to kill me, my wife, and my kids, just because he needs a place to live? NO! You wouldn't apply those standards in the US, so don't you dare apply them in a place where it doesn't harm your own interests.

   You have also made your self an accomplice to an Israeli army that comes onto OUR land and bulldozes OUR houses and massacres OUR kids! As long as they are not Muslim everything seems to be just sweet as apple pie. Damn straight we're going to fight you!

   It's people like you who are putting a demonic face on things. Seriously...it's YOU who need to look at the situation with an impartial mind...get a clue!

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way2go,

I wonder if people are aware that many of these settlers are poor people? People who were offered cheap housing by the government. They put all they had into their homes and have nowhere to go.

Where did these settlers come from?  ... contrary to you statement, many jews that immigrated to Israel are able to go back to their homes else where.  The jews from Britain, USA, and many other countries can go back home and live a good life.  But the Palestinians.....are considered "stateless" .....they have no where to go.  This was their land and their original home, but they are being shoved over and have no place to go.

That is the reality.

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asalaamu alaikum wa rahmatullah

well obvuiously this stuff is probably true, but what do you want us "americans" on this list to do actually?

go down to Washington DC and knock on Bushes door and be like..oh my gosh! I cant believe your doing this stuff

do you think the govt really cares?

do you think we, since we're american just have this ability to like sign a petition and they'll stop.

oi vey

salaams

baheera

p.s. whats with this attitude that all jews r zionists?

I happen to be a quarter Jewish and half my family is jewish and they are NOT zionists,

ya'll need to realise there r Zionists who r catholic, not all jews r "evil" not all jews r zionists, we are very similar to each other.

its best you realise that and stop callin people who are less then what you'd expect "Jews" cuz I take super offense to that. :angry:  :s  :cry:

Edited By UPittShiaGrl on 1034088617

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(salam)

You may be interested in this article:

http://www.independent.co.uk/story.jsp?story=287304

Claire Rayner: Jews have no right to Middle East land

By Robert Mendick

21 April 2002

Middle East links

Claire Rayner, Britain's best-known agony aunt, has outraged the Jewish establishment by declaring a loathing of Israel and an apparent empathy with Palestinian suicide bombers.

Ms Rayner, 71, who was born Jewish but has long been a self-proclaimed atheist, has said that the Jewish people's claim to a historic homeland was "a load of [Edited Out]".

The comments from the "mother of all agony aunts" have infuriated the Board of Deputies of British Jews. Only last week it castigated another television personality, the poet and Oxford University don Tom Paulin, for suggesting in an interview that American-born settlers in Israel were like Nazis who should be "shot dead". Mr Paulin, in a letter to today's Independent on Sunday, says his views have been distorted.

Ms Rayner told this newspaper: "I have never had any attachment to Israel. The only time I went there I loathed the country. People were abominably rude. I am appalled by the right wing hawkishness of this government. What upsets me even more is so many of the constituents seem to approve of what Sharon is doing.

"People say the Jews have a historic right to live on the land ­ how can they? What a load of [Edited Out]. You could also say Sephardic Jews have a right to Spain."

Ms Rayner, the president of the British Humanist Association declares a firm preference for a world without national boundaries. She added: "If you treat a group of people the way Palestinians have been treated they will use the only weapon they have which is their individual lives. This is why there are suicide bombers."

Fiona Macaulay, public affairs director of Board of Deputies of British Jews, said: "There can never be any justification for terrorism where innocent civilians die for political ends. I am appalled that Claire Rayner could believe otherwise."

In his letter, Mr Paulin writes: "I have been and am a life-long opponent of anti-Semitism and a consistent supporter of a Palestinian state. I do not support attacks on Israeli civilians."

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Refer to what a Zionist has to say:

http://www.deiryassin.org/gkaufman.html

Full text of Gerald Kaufman's speech in House of Commons

Tuesday, April 16, 2002

Mr. Gerald Kaufman (Member of Parliament, Manchester, Gorton): I became a friend of Israel when I was eight days old, and I have the scar to prove it. [Laughter.]

The confrontation between Ariel Sharon's Government and the Palestinian terrorists has become an international crisis, which, unless handled decisively, could create a dangerous wider conflict and disrupt the economies of the developed world. The suicide bombings organised by Palestinian terrorist groups are atrocities with which no civilised community can cope.

Earlier this month, an Israeli friend visited me here and told me that his trip was an escape from hell. He went back to hell. Last week, a suicide bomber blew himself up at the bus stop outside his kibbutz, where I have stayed many times, killing eight innocent people. The deaths of hundreds of innocent Israelis are horrifying and have created an unsustainable atmosphere in Israel.

The suicide bombers are mass murderers whose aim is to kill the maximum number of victims. Yet we need to ask ourselves why young Palestinians, men and women with their lives before them, decide to turn themselves into human bombs. We need to ask how we would feel if we had been occupied for 35 years by a foreign power that denied us the most elementary human rights and decent living conditions. We need to ask what the Jews did in comparable circumstances. In 1946, the Irgun, controlled by Menachem Begin, who later became Israeli Prime Minister, blew up the King David hotel in Jerusalem, slaughtering 91 innocent people, 17 of them fellow Jews.

Ariel Sharon responds to the suicide bombers by using the full force of the Israeli army. He is having absolutely no effect in ending the terrorist acts. The suicide bombings and the slaughter of Jewish innocents continue and, as Colin Powell said while in Israel, will go on--not only regardless of what Ariel Sharon's army does, but impelled by what it does. We have now witnessed-my hon. Friend the Member for Cynon Valley (Ann Clwyd) described her experiences--the full impact of the Israeli assault on the Palestinians. We have seen what happened in Jenin.

In 1948, the Palestinians denounced what they described as a massacre in the village of Deir Yassin. It was denied that there was such a massacre, but it was later officially established by the incoming Israeli Government that 254 Palestinians had been murdered wantonly by Begin's Irgun and the Stern gang, led by Yitzhak Shamir--later, like Begin and Sharon, a Likud Prime Minister. It is undeniable that something dreadful happened in Jenin. Despite an Israeli attempt at a cover-up, the press have now managed to get into Jenin.

The Telegraph newspapers, which are pro-Sharon in their editorial line, deserve credit for reporting objectively what happened in Jenin last week.

The Sunday Telegraph said: "Without doubt something very terrible had happened to the Palestinian refugees there".

Yesterday's edition of The Daily Telegraph described how Israeli soldiers beat Muntaha Seraya with their fists and guns after bursting into her home. Four months pregnant, she suffered a miscarriage half an hour after the soldiers left. Today's Daily Telegraph accepts the Palestinian estimate of hundreds killed. The Times today describes the "stench of death" in Jenin, and The Independent calls what happened there a "war crime".

The difference between the Deir Yassin massacre and what happened in Jenin is that Deir Yassin was the work of terrorist groups denounced by mainstream Jewish organisations, whereas the horrors in Jenin were carried out by the official Israeli army. In 1901, Henry Campbell-Bannerman asked, "When is a war not a war?" Talking about the British Government and the Boer war, his answer was, "When it is carried on by methods of barbarism." Sharon has ordered his troops to use methods of barbarism against the Palestinians.

Two thousand years ago, Tacitus said, "Solitudinem faciunt pacem appellant", "They made a desert and called it peace." That is a precise description of Sharon's actions.

It is time to remind Sharon that the star of David belongs to all Jews, not to his repulsive Government. His actions are staining the star of David with blood. The Jewish people, whose gifts to civilised discourse include Einstein and Epstein, Mendelssohn and Mahler, Sergei Eisenstein and Billy Wilder, are now symbolised throughout the world by the blustering bully Ariel Sharon, a war criminal implicated in the murder of Palestinians at the Sabra and Shatila camps and now involved in killing Palestinians once again.

Sharon is not simply a war criminal; he is a fool. He says that Jerusalem must never again be divided, yet it is divided in a way that it has not been for 35 years. I used to walk, shop and dine in east Jerusalem. No westerner or Israeli would dare to do that now. The state of Israel was founded so that Jews would no longer be penned up in ghettos. Now the state of Israel is a ghetto: an international pariah.

Sharon has reduced Israel's economy to its worst state for nearly half a century. As a consequence of his policies, more innocent Israelis have been killed by terrorists than for decades. More Israeli soldiers are being killed than at any time since Sharon tricked Begin into invading Lebanon 20 years ago. Sharon has rehabilitated Yasser Arafat, who had become sidelined and discredited and is now a Palestinian icon. The United States Secretary of State waited on Arafat in Ramallah like a petitioner. If Sharon succeeds in exiling him, Arafat will be welcomed throughout the world as a spokesman for the oppressed Palestinian people.

Sharon's most dangerous enemy is Iraq. Although I ardently wish for the overthrow of Saddam Hussein, I have my doubts about taking action against him now because the confusion in American policy makes success extremely unlikely. The current fighting in Afghanistan involving the Royal Marines six months after we first went in shows how much more difficult a campaign would be in Iraq, with its huge, well equipped armed forces. In any case, Sharon has made it impossible for the Americans to take action against Iraq. If they did, the whole Muslim world would be united against the United States, the coalition against terrorism would disintegrate, and western economies could suffer a disaster comparable to the oil shock of 1973.

It is time for the United States to take action. Sharon must make a full withdrawal from Palestinian territories. If he does not, economic sanctions and an arms ban must be imposed. In 1956, President Eisenhower ordered the Israelis to withdraw from Sinai, which was occupied during the Suez war, and the Israelis, under a sensible Prime Minister, David Ben-Gurion, complied. In 1991, when the Israeli Prime Minister, former terrorist and assassin Yitzhak Shamir refused to participate in peace talks in Madrid, President Bush senior imposed economic sanctions by withholding $10 billion in loan guarantees from the Israeli Government, and Shamir turned up in Madrid. President George W. Bush told the Israelis to withdraw from the Palestinian territories. Instead, Sharon has stepped up his aggression. Jenin has happened since Bush's call for withdrawal. The international credibility of the United States presidency is at stake. If Bush continues to be defied by Sharon, the United States presidency will be proved ineffectual with ominous consequences for the entire free world.

Our Prime Minister is an internationally respected statesman. He must use his influence with the United States--the special relationship--so that Bush speedily compels Sharon to return Israel to the international community. No alternative is acceptable. If it does not happen, the outlook for us all is bleak.

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(salam)

More  links:

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk_politics/1874459.stm

http://www.zccf.org.ae/LECTURES/E2_lectures/e195.htm

Plus another:

http://www.inminds.com

Anti-zionist Rabbis denounce israel

"Judaism stands completely

opposed to zionism...

we pray daily for the dismantlement

of the zionist state [israel]"

This is Self defence!!!!!  According to Zionists:

Refer:

http://www.gush-shalom.org/archives/kurdi_eng.html

Edited By Zero_110 on 1034092173

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Asalaamu Alaikum

p.s. whats with this attitude that all jews r zionists?

I happen to be a quarter Jewish and half my family is jewish and they are NOT zionists

Sis... Don't you mean you used to be a quarter Jewish? Unless you are just referring to ethnicity. I know at my university (which is Jewish dominated), they consider "Jewish" a race, rather than a religion.

And I'm happy to hear that your family members are not zionists :)

It brings tears to my eyes to hear about the Jews in Israel who are imprisoned because they are anti-Zionists.

Alhamdulillah, It's so wonderful to know that they see oppression wherever it may be and against whomever it may be... and are not blinded by whatever it is that the Zionists are blinded by. *sigh*

Many Muslims take offense when all Muslims are called terrorists... In the same way, some Jews must take offense when all Jews are called Zionists.

Anyway...

Take care... ma'Salaama

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Asalaamu Alaikum

p.s. whats with this attitude that all jews r zionists?

I happen to be a quarter Jewish and half my family is jewish and they are NOT zionists

Sis... Don't you mean you used to be a quarter Jewish? Unless you are just referring to ethnicity. I know at my university (which is Jewish dominated), they consider "Jewish" a race, rather than a religion.

And I'm happy to hear that your family members are not zionists :)

It brings tears to my eyes to hear about the Jews in Israel who are imprisoned because they are anti-Zionists.

Alhamdulillah, It's so wonderful to know that they see oppression wherever it may be and against whomever it may be... and are not blinded by whatever it is that the Zionists are blinded by. *sigh*

Many Muslims take offense when all Muslims are called terrorists... In the same way, some Jews must take offense when all Jews are called Zionists.

Anyway...

Take care... ma'Salaama

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salaams

yeah D

people need to get up on their culture, language, tribal stuff up in here,  I'll refrain from the smart remark I really am dying to say to the sister in question. aheeeeeeem

btw, bro D...also its patriarical but even thou my parents arent Jewish I have a grandma on my moms side that is...and so her line is of the Jewish tribe...but the rest its mixed everything

a Jew doesnt a,lways hafta be a member of Judaism.

I am Jewish no matter what religion I am because I have some ancestors who were of the tribe

much like I have a\some ancestors who were Hungarian so I belong to that tribe as well

one cant change their ethnicity or "tribal" background.  not all arabs r Muslims yet people think all Muslims r arabs and vise versa.

there r alot of people of Jewish ancestory who r not of the Jewish faith.

pls understand this.  when your dissin people by callin em "Jews" your being totally ignorant of an entirely different Culture.

thank you very much

Baheera

Edited By UPittShiaGrl on 1034097032

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Asalaamu Alaikum...

people need to get up on their culture, language, tribal stuff up in here,  I'll refrain from the smart remark I really am dying to say to the sister in question. aheeeeeeem

...were you referring to me??? uh?? :(

If so... I'd like to hear the remark... :s

Take care... ma'Salaama...

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Do the names Bethlehem, Jerusalem, Nazereth sound Islamic to you? My Bible is a couple thousand years old and I read all about the Jews in those places so they were their all along.  The Palestinian charter does not recognize the state of Israel and nor do the Palestinians want to acknowledge Israel's right to exist. Take a closer look at their flag with the map on it. They claim the whole of Israel as theirs and therein lies the problem. The Palestinians (who mostly came from Jordan) want to whole country for themselves. Even archeological finds at the Temple Mount reveal items of Jewish historical evidence which the Palestinians have tried to hide and destroy.

They need to learn to live side by side and accept the Jewish right to the land as well instead of being so greedy.

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