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In the Name of God بسم الله

Fsiddiqui, just_a_kafer, crit13, morassofneg., etc - We need a solutio

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Salam Alaikum/Peace be upon you

It has come to my attention that recently, and especially recently, many of the topics that have been closed on this site were directly or indirectly caused by some ignorant comments directed towards Islam or other members on this site in general from you.  We can't have this go on any further.

Each day, I get about 2 complaints from members regarding statements that they've found offensive asking me to take action.  I don't think giving out warnings is helping at all.  Most if not all of you already have 1 or 2 warnings and I will not wait for the third warning just so I can kick you out.

This is an Islamic forum, anyone that comes here and in ANY WAY disrespect Islam or the Muslims on this site will not be tolerated.  I have given a total of 5 warnings to Muslim members on this site due to the way they behave towards you guys.  What I got in return was them leaving after thinking I support your ideas and sense of logic.

You guys know that I've been extra lenient on you ever since you signed up.  Why?  Is it because I support you guys?  Not at all.  It's to give a chance to the members here to have an open discussion with you and to give you guys a place to discuss (not impose) your ideas onto members here, hopefully leading to something constructive.  I can't have this go on any further since it has failed.  I also can’t go on angering members on this site for my shortcomings in stopping you guys at the same time I have to be fair and give you guys as much of a chance that I give the other members here.

This brings me to why I have opened this topic.  I thought since this is a site for everyone, I'll let "everyone" decide on a path to the solution for this problem.  I can't seem to find a fair solution; I'd like to hear what other members, including you, think the best solution is.

Inshallah we will reach a fair conclusion

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Salam Alaikum/Peace be upon you

It has come to my attention that recently, and especially recently, many of the topics that have been closed on this site were directly or indirectly caused by some ignorant comments directed towards Islam or other members on this site in general from you.  We can't have this go on any further.

Each day, I get about 2 complaints from members regarding statements that they've found offensive asking me to take action.  I don't think giving out warnings is helping at all.  Most if not all of you already have 1 or 2 warnings and I will not wait for the third warning just so I can kick you out.

This is an Islamic forum, anyone that comes here and in ANY WAY disrespect Islam or the Muslims on this site will not be tolerated.  I have given a total of 5 warnings to Muslim members on this site due to the way they behave towards you guys.  What I got in return was them leaving after thinking I support your ideas and sense of logic.

You guys know that I've been extra lenient on you ever since you signed up.  Why?  Is it because I support you guys?  Not at all.  It's to give a chance to the members here to have an open discussion with you and to give you guys a place to discuss (not impose) your ideas onto members here, hopefully leading to something constructive.  I can't have this go on any further since it has failed.  I also can’t go on angering members on this site for my shortcomings in stopping you guys at the same time I have to be fair and give you guys as much of a chance that I give the other members here.

This brings me to why I have opened this topic.  I thought since this is a site for everyone, I'll let "everyone" decide on a path to the solution for this problem.  I can't seem to find a fair solution; I'd like to hear what other members, including you, think the best solution is.

Inshallah we will reach a fair conclusion

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If this wasnt a fair Islamic forum, I wouldn't have opened this topic up, nor would I have asked for your opinions for a solution.  I would have censored you right away since the first word that was controversial was said.  But I didn't, please appriciate that.

It's okay to mock the entire sahabahs and use abusive and filthy lingo for them?

It's okay to show others, the dominance and impression of second class humans, regardless of being muslims(other than shiates) and non-believers?

Its okay to call the entire western cultures [including US] savage, immoral, corrupt, depraved compare to "highly" civilized muslims nation?

Its not America, The west, nor the Sahaba that are on trial here.  Regardless where you think you are, an Islamic forum or not, there are people here who go 100% against your belief.  You coming on this site does not give you the right to impose those ideas onto others, let alone mock those who go against them.

If all of the above is in the resolution of this website, than go ahead and shut us off cause as long as there will be idiots who like to come up with tons of materials to brutalize and dehumanize others, my remarks will be there, regardless

Re-read the rules.  Everyone here is entitled to their opinion and I have mentioned many many times that this site encourages freedom of speech.  That does not mean that people can come in here and critiszze and scrutinize Islam by attacking it.  You yourself claimed your Islam yet went againt your own being by critisizing the Quran and even the Prophet of Islam.  You expect me to allow this?  Is a non Muslim reads your comments and then reads you claiming being Muslim, what would that make him think?

Regardless.  We're not here to argue.  No finger pointing.  You've made as much mistakes as some members on this site.  If I didn't admit that fact a while back, I wouldnt have given everyone warnings equaly and bring this subject into the public.

We're looking for a solution on this thread, not another argument.

I'd like to hear from others.

Wa salam.

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Mr. Ali please dont be childish and stop threating me to cut me off.

If this forum is suppose to meant for discussion and to gain knowledge from one and other than controversy would be directly propotional to the topic. You cannot avoid the rebuttle atmosphere in different thoughts environment.

I have never impose any single idea on anybody and nor I have any desire to do so.

And although you have established the policy, read it to again that anybody is entitle to his/her opinion. The situation get worse when people start calling names cause they cannot comes up with proper answer or counter argument.

And Ali, are you in your mind to tell me that I HAVE ATTACK ISLAM, QURAN AND PROPHET(s)? You should be apologizing to me for this accusation, Mr. ALi!!!!

I always try to adopt the moderation way and I will not tolerate any extremism and this forum will always have my voice as long as I'm a member.

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Brother Ali,

Dont feel upset over what fissidique has to say to you. There are lots of people out there who are ill-mannered, insolent and can fall as low as a man can fall ! Our imams used to turn their faces away from ignorant men who knew nothing more than abusing the true muslims. Let us all be patient and follow in the footsteps of our imams. InshaAllah our reward is with Allah.

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I am disappointed at this turn of events. This is pettiness.

If anyone has been attacked, it's been Americans and Christianity. Just recently I was insulted to read that my God was a drunk and then was asked whether He also worked as a pimp!!!! Then this person went on to say the Bible was a bunch of garbage! Nice, isn't it? And it's still on this message board for all to read.

I did not lodge a complaint about that, but I can assure you I will not come back to this message board if the voices of the few people on this board who have the guts to stand up in defense of the minority, are kicked off this board. Perhaps that is what they want anyway? How boring.

I'd like to know what these people wrote that was so bad? Is it worse than what I was offended by? This is childish. The people who complained should go home and get weaned!

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Brother Ali,

Dont feel upset over what fissidique has to say to you. There are lots of people out there who are ill-mannered, insolent and can fall as low as a man can fall ! Our imams used to turn their faces away from ignorant men who knew nothing more than abusing the true muslims. Let us all be patient and follow in the footsteps of our imams. InshaAllah our reward is with Allah.

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bismillah

salam alaikom & peace

i would like to start by thanking brother Ali for his work on this site and the fine way he treats our brothers from the four other madhabs of the sunna. its very sad that someone has to try and make up an issue such as that when Ali has band and has warnd alot of the jaffari brothers who were rude.  

now i would like to quote Fsiddiqui

I always try to adopt the moderation way and I will not tolerate any extremism and this forum will always have my voice as long as I'm a member.

now i would like to know who you think you are??

are you our mother or father?? are we 5 years old??

your not here to learn islam or come to an understanding of  why people feel the way they do, so i would love to see you band unless you want to stay to learn.

from other members please end the hypocracy.

i think warnnings should be given then a ban for how ever long Ali wants or feels is necessary.

once again i would like to thank Ali.

ws and peace

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I did not lodge a complaint about that, but I can assure you I will not come back to this message board if the voices of the few people on this board who have the guts to stand up in defense of the minority, are kicked off this board. Perhaps that is what they want anyway? How boring.

Salam Alaikum

if you found it offensive, you should have reported it, its as simple as that.  I personally don't enjoy debating anymore because 1 of 2 things happen.  either the topic gets locked, or other people disturb the discussion.  So I really don't have an interest anymore in political debate, even though I promised JaK a debate about US-israel relations (no I didn't forget), I have simply lost interest because of other topics I've seen open up.

ws

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Ali,

Since I’ve tried to keep the wording of my replies to be well bellow the tone of ignorance/insult emanating from those addressed to me, I have absolutely no idea reading what post of mine made you include me in the ‘problem group’! However in view of the facts that you’re the one who pays the bills, my inability to present you with a viable solution to the problem and my reluctance to change my behavior which, as I mentioned before, I do not find at all to be out of line with those of the other members, I’d suggest you either put it up for vote or simply just ask those (including me) who you, or other members are uncomfortable with, to leave……that’s all!

Take care

Kafir

Ps, as way2go pointed out, the door swings both ways! You can not, will not have a balanced debate if the insults and attacks, for example in the Islam/Christianity debates are allowed to freely proceed as long as they are not directed towards Islam!

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Just_a_Kafer, actually you're probably the most decent amongst them.  I still didnt forget the PM you sent me asking me if I wanted you to leave.  I really appriciate it.  I did however add you on the list since you are also an active non-Muslim who's ideas are usualyl found to be controversial by the members here.  We're trying to bring you all together to find a solution, not to start a war.

way2go,

I did not lodge a complaint about that, but I can assure you I will not come back to this message board if the voices of the few people on this board who have the guts to stand up in defense of the minority, are kicked off this board. Perhaps that is what they want anyway? How boring.

Like Aamir said, if you did find it offensive, you should have filed a complaint, its your right as a member on this site, and I would have guranteed you I would have given a warning to whomever it was.  I've done it before and Fsidiqqi can witness to that.

Fsiddiqui,

Mr. Ali please dont be childish and stop threating me to cut me off.

You can't in your right mind claim that I'm threatning you in ANY of my posts above.  This is ridiculous, I didn't open this thread to threaten you guys.  This is an open forum, people come and leave.  I don't get any pleasure in banning people.  Everyone loses when someone is banned, not just the person being banned.  Then again, if you feel that you're not welcome here and that everyone wants you out, then.. It all depends on your self respect.

Wa salam.

Edited By Ali on 1033795749

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Mr. Ali, I would not beg you to let me stay as a member in your forum. Let cut the chase and let me ask you directly, do you want to put me off?

Also I ask you something and you failed to clarify the situation. I think I entitle to some clarification before you act as high almighty.

And what is saga-reza problem. He is the one who is extremely mischief.  He and some other members of his kind started all the confusion and disrespect to others on the other thread. I’m not justifying because I wanna stay here but telling you the very truth. He is one who likes to offend other as he pleases.

So if you wanna act fair, do somthing about them first and than bring your complain to me.

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Wow.. this is showing me your true personality.

How am I acting all mighty and unfair?  I was the one who opened this topic in the first place wasnt I?  I was the one who decided to bring you and your kind to this thread so we can reach a form of agrement BEFORE too many warnings are given out and you get systematically banned!

You call me unfair?  Because of you I've allowed 2 people to leave this forum because they were offended that I warned them to behave towards you yet you still call me unfair?

Its true what they say, you cant satisfy everyone, my mistake is I tried, and failed.

I cant believe after all this you think I want you to leave, or that I'm raising my position above yours simply because I have the power to ban you.

Again, we're looking for a solution, not another problem.  If you want to find a solution to keep everyone happy on this site, you're more than welcome.  If you can't contrabute something useful to this thread, stay out of it and wait for your third warning, then off you go

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Salaam to all,

I joined shiachat almost 2 months ago. Shortly after my registratoin, someone got into a bad argument with me and mis-interprated my arugments. But that person wasn't a bad person at all. They just misinterprated my thoughts. People handle situation differently. It is up to their personality how they want to handle it.

The fact is that we all have to respect each other, and have to go by the rules of that community if we join them.

It is nicer to bare our anger, so we don't talk out of anger. :)

In terms of Solution, I think it is better to get a vote on whether we should nuke the people who go beyond the shiachat rules/regulations (after 3 warnings) or just ignore them no matter what they say....

In general, I am very happy with this site. I actually learnt a lot of things here. That is why I joined this site in the first place. Thanks Bro Ali for making this site.

God Bless All,

P.S. I think we should all remember, it is better to bare our angers before we speak of anything. I know it is hard to do that, but it is not impossible.

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And Mr. Ali you showing me your personality, by telling me what to do by dictating this site..  Yes I thankful to you that you let two “great” members to leave this forum. Those have nothing better to say but “death to everyone”. If you wanna fill your members with those kinda idiots, be my guest.

It was I who decided to stay and not you. You ask me what I wanna to do at that time.

You still did not present the evidence, that I have mocked the religion and its followers. Again its not like I’m dying to stay in the “lantern of truth” but its become the matter of principal. You give me the evidence from the latest forum, something which happen not out of the blue; so that I don’t have to wait for your third warning.

Ale Mohammed, don’t take advantage of the time to criticize me like that, while hiding behind Ali. Be man enough to bring the real accusation beside calling me ill-mannered and insolent.

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salam alaikum, maybe we should use some kind of visible tag if possible so we can identify those people who have had warnings - something noticeable and these tags should be in place for say six months. Because at the moment a new member can engage in debate with one of these people - I am not saying all of them are trouble makers - but someone who is and that member could be offended by their hurtful, lying comments. Or alternatively you could have a separate section like a discussion forum which is locked only to moderators - in which the moderator could name the trouble maker and could say that this person has had such and such number of warnings and that he has been warned for doing such and such a thing so people can be aware of the people who are here in this forum just to spread discord - and there could be some warning label attached to the person. Alhamdullillah this discussion forum is well moderated - and it is the best Shia discussion forum on the net. If a person intentionally is in this forum just to spread discord and to lie and insult people and openly abuses someone or Islam then I think they should be awarded a punishment - say a one year ban or one month ban - e.t.c. thanx - these are just my opinions - I don't know much about computers so I don't know whether these ideas are feasible or not. wsalams

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I think we all need to calm down! Fsiddiqui, don't push it, just let it go, please.

Ali, you have tried to be fair and I'd like to acknowledge that. I know it's not easy for you as you're attending classes and having to split your time between your other activities, including this board.

Unfortunately there are many petty people out there who are quickly offended and just as quick to lodge complaints.What are the complaints? Are they perhaps personality conflicts (which are always going to be there), a disagreement that someone took personally or what? If anyone here is suggesting a vote, how is that going to be fair? We all know they are outnumbered. Why don't the complainers step forward and let us know what the complaints are and let these people defend themselves? By the way, this thread was to Fsiddiqui, just_a_kafer, crit13, morassofneg., etc. Who is the etc? Name them all. If I'm one I want to know.

The complainers certainly did not lodge a complaint against the post that I found offensive. Wonder how offensive the posts they complained about are in comparison? Double standards and hypocrisy seem to be the order of the day.

Ali, you say if I was offended I should have filed a complaint. You're right, I could have, but I prefer to ignore idiots. Give them enough rope and sooner or later they'll hang themselves.

I had to let off some steam, this childishness really ticks me off.

You all have a nice weekend.

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alimasta, both your ideas have already been implemented.  The moderators do have a hidden forum of their own where such things are to be discussed, it just hasn't gone public to them yet since this is still realtivly a new forum.

As for the visible warning, that too has been implemented.  Above the number of posts of a user, if there is a small yellow card, it means thast user has been given a warning.

way2go, not all of the people that I listed have been a source of trouble on the forum, some, like Just_a_Kafer has actually shown good conduct on this forum.  I did however list him because he is one of the users who's ideas are usually very contraversial and may cause big arguments.  I would have included you too with the names, but i'm limited to space.  I just needed to get you all here in one thread to find a solution and I think what you provided as a solution is a good first step.

Who here has major complaints against any of the people listed?  If they dont step up, I might as well call them up :)

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Dear Brothers and Sisters,

Salaamun Alaykum Warahmatullahi Wabarakaatohu.

First of all I would like to say shukran to Brother Ali to put up with the diversity of thought on this forum. I know it is a trying experience, but it is worth it.

Some people say that one should not discuss Religion or Politics because personal beliefs and views come under scrutiny and may well be attacked. I feel that we have an excellent forum here so long as we do not abuse it. People should be respected for their divergent views. We may not agree with the views but at least we have common ground to discuss these views without having to resort to verbal abuse. Verbal abuse should not be tolerated from anybody whatsoever and the concerned person should be warned whoever he/she may be.

I may not agree with the views of people like F.Siddiqi, Nadeem, Naj etc. but I would be sorry to see them or people like them leave or any of our Brothers and Sisters. The main thing is that we have so much to learn from each other, the problem is how we put it across to the other person without offending them. We have room for improvement in this regard, all of us. Here are a few of my suggestions.

1. WHEN DEBATING WITH PEOPLE DEBATE IN A FAIR MANNER AND DO NOT BE OFFENSIVE THAT WOULD PROVOKE AN OFFENSIVE RESPONSE.

2. " PUT YOUR SELF IN YOUR OPPONENTS SHOES " AND TRY TO UNDERSTAND THEIR VIEW AS IF YOU WERE IN THEIR PLACE.

3. TRY TO SAY SOMETHING CONSTRUCTIVE RATHER THAN SOMETHING SARCASTIC.

4. REFRAIN FROM USING BAD WORDS FOR HOLY QURAN, BIBLE, THE COMPANIONS etc.

5. FOR EVERY ACTION THERE IS A REACTION, SO MAKE SURE YOUR ACTION IS A POSITIVE ONE SO AS TO GET A POSITIVE REACTION.

Thats all I can think of for know.

Allah HAFIZ.

Your Shia Brother in Islam,

Shahid Abbas Bokhari.

The Lover of the AHLUL BAYT A.S.

p.s. I feel I need to improve as well, as I may have upset Sister naj, for this I apologise.

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Shahidbokhari5, wise words.

One other thing I'd like to suggest. How about the gripers and complainers getting written up? Note who complains, how often, against who or whom (as this may be a personal vendetta) and then put them on notice for posting too many complaints, or for being a weenie. This would make Ali's work a lot easier no?  ;)

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Salam

Brothers ... The guiding principle of peacefulness is that one should not be offended at the slightest opposition to one's feelings.

Allah S.W.T said:'' Live peacefully with one onother.''

He also said''And not alike are the good and the evil.Repel (evil) with what is best,when, he between whom and thee is emity whouldbe as if he were a warm friend.'' (41:34)

Allah S.W.T said;'' And the servants of the beneficent are they who walk on the earth in humility ,and when the ignorant address them ,they say,PEACE! And they who pass the night prostrating themselves before their lord and standing.'' (25:63&64)

Prophet Mohammad S.A.W said :

''He who is deprived of gentleness is deprived of good.''

_

Fsiddiqui.... Ur lack of knowledge and respect has grown very strong in this forum . Brother Ali let u stay ... he did not ban u at first when u sent those threatning  letters . And now ur saying

 Be man enough to bring the real accusation beside calling me ill-mannered and insolent.
wich with all do respect u  define both those characteristics .. ( Insolent and ill mannered ) ... I dont mean to start a war ... or start an arguement with u MR . Fsiddiqui ... but the last thing this forum is doing is "begging" u to stay here .

way2go -

Ali, you say if I was offended I should have filed a complaint. You're right, I could have, but I prefer to ignore idiots. Give them enough rope and sooner or later they'll hang themselves.
 ... its really sad to see how someone like u ... either christian , atheist , jewish or catholic would sponser suicide . This forum has tried to maintain a positive/good level of respect towards you and the other people listed on here ( marassofnegativety , crit13 ) ..... brother ali  banned Deathtoamerica and his other niks .... just so no harrassment and bad image of islam is given  towards you 4-5 .

Brother Ali .... As a muslim sister , i want to thank u for such a wonderful forum u have provided our muslim brothers and sisters with ,  and ur patience regarding this whole corrupted manner of a small war in this forum .... its not time to ban them .... just reason with them .... its not something that will harm ur brothers and sisters , but will harm them fel a5era .

__

Wa Salam

Edited By AlShe3eyah on 1033848308

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AlShe3eyah

Quote  

Ali, you say if I was offended I should have filed a complaint. You're right, I could have, but I prefer to ignore idiots. Give them enough rope and sooner or later they'll hang themselves.  

... its really sad to see how someone like u ... either otechristian , atheist , jewish or catholic would sponser suicide .

Way2go did not mean this literally. It's a figure of speach.

As far as Christians sponsoring suicide, I'm not even goint to touch that with a 10 foot poll. I'm liable to get banned.

Nice to see that we can all debate on an even footing.

Fsiddiqui.... Ur lack of knowledge and respect has grown very strong in this forum . Brother Ali let u stay ... he did not ban u at first when u sent those threatning  letters . And now ur saying Quote  

Be man enough to bring the real accusation beside calling me ill-mannered and insolent.  

wich with all do respect u  define both those characteristics .. ( Insolent and ill mannered )

It appears that it is encouraged for the Muslims on this site to personally attack the non muslims but if it happens the other way around, it's a big no no.

I'm going to sign off for today because I'm sure I will post something that will get me thrown out.

See you all tomorrow. God Bless. Allah Bless. Whatever the politically correct response would be.  :)

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It appears that it is encouraged for the Muslims on this site to personally attack the non muslims but if it happens the other way around, it's a big no no.

We are not attacking ... "we" ... are making an effort to keep a positive postion in the west . Although most of you have seen our inferior qualities .. because of some of the attacks against the Prophet and The Quran al Kareem on this forum coming from ur fellow brothers ( [b:post_uid0] Fsiddiqui, just_a_kafer, crit13, morassofneg., etc [/b:post_uid0] )

Edited By AlShe3eyah on 1033848381

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He's kidding bro :)

Anyways, back to a solution..

Should we stick with the warning system?  I'll try to be as fair as possible, but the main rules stay which is, apparent any attack on Islam or Muslims on this forum will be followed by a warning. 3 warning and you're out.

Same goes with the Muslims on this site.  Any baseless attack on christianity, judaism or any other religion without proof or evidence will lead to the same treatement.

As when it comes to politics, I can only advice my fellow Muslim brothers and sister to mind their manners and control their emotions.  There is a limit and I'll leave it up to you guys to figure it out, there is only little that we moderators can do.

Wa salam

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He's kidding bro :)

Anyways, back to a solution..

Should we stick with the warning system?  I'll try to be as fair as possible, but the main rules stay which is, apparent any attack on Islam or Muslims on this forum will be followed by a warning. 3 warning and you're out.

Same goes with the Muslims on this site.  Any baseless attack on christianity, judaism or any other religion without proof or evidence will lead to the same treatement.

As when it comes to politics, I can only advice my fellow Muslim brothers and sister to mind their manners and control their emotions.  There is a limit and I'll leave it up to you guys to figure it out, there is only little that we moderators can do.

Wa salam

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I was kidding also.

By the way, I'm not a bro  :s. I really don't mind though. Just need to set the record straight every once in a while.

I don't know how your system works. Some people post more often than others so I'm sure they will have more complaints against them. Do you take into account the ratio of posts versus complaints? Others interests are in more controversial subjects so that would also count against them. Do they have to behave for a certain period of time in order to have one of the warnings reduced?

Before a warning is issued does the person be made aware of the nature of the complaint and given a chance to defend themselves?

How about the complainers? Do you take into account their ages, gender etc. Don't ask me to explain because I'll get into a heap of trouble! Suffice to say, some people are apt to be more sensitive than others, more judgemental and others are just tattle tales. Do you note the number of complaints and how frequent versus their participation?

You're doing a fine job, please don't think I'm trying to improve. Just trying to throw out a few ideas that may, or may not, be useful.

Good luck!

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