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Martyrdom operations ( "suicide-bombings")

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JaK, you only have to read the topics here to know the answer to your question - if it's a Jewish child, no problem. It's very sad, but they hate everything and anything Jewish. This hatred is beyond comprehension to me.

What if its an Afghan/Pakistani child??? What if its the Childern of Taliban??? Childern are Childern???

Quit your Hypocracy, stop your government first, and then come here and try to preach... If you can turn Afghanistan upside down for WTC, then why can't a Palestanian kid, who witnessed the murder of his whole family do the same to JEWS???

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Crti13 and Morass are you trying to say that you know Islam more than the Iranian???????shame on you guys.

:)

Wanna know the harsh reality....the Khomeini revolution and the Taliban regime have established the rule of the clergy, a concept foreign to the basic tenets of pure Islam. Religion has evolved into a weapon in the hands of unscrupulous corrupt men hungry for absolute power. Unless Muslims learn the simple principle of not allowing individuals, whether mullahs or generals, to use religion for their own benefit, troubles and chaos will always be among us.

Salaam alaikum,

I guess the Prophet(pbuh&hp) created the first Islamic Government, with himself as the head.  So the concept of the clergy being in charge of the government is not a foreign concept, but pure Islam.

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Salam Alaikum

Dhulfiqar

I just saw a picture of a settler teaching his child how to use an automatic assualt rifle. If the child had a rifle in hand and had the potential of shooting you or/and your family what would you do?

Just_a_Kafer

If someone, regardless who, would aim a loaded gun with the intent to kill, therefore pose a clear and present threat on the life of my family, I would do whatever I can and whatever it takes to deal with that threat and defend my family!

So u would shoot that kid? Yes he's armed, but he's still a child.

If you do say yes to shooting at that kid, then you should have no objection at Palestinians killing settler kids because you know very well that settlers are armed and if (and when) their children are also armed, then they are legitimate targets.

……and now the question we’ve been all waiting for! Could you please tell us if, in your mind, is ok and justifiable to (D! )deliberately target (D! ) and kill children in order to achieve your goals?

Deliberately targetting unarmed children is not ok, but, according to you, armed children are legitimate targets.

[b:post_uid0] way2go[/b:post_uid0]

This thread is about martyrdom operations. If you wanna discuss the history of Palestine or Jews or any other topic that doesn't deal with the subject of this thread, than please just open another thread. That way, it would be more organized and i would gladly participate.

wasalam

p.s. Just_a_kafer, im still waiting for your answer to the question i asked u in my previous post. Don't change the subejct again, just answer the question

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So u would shoot that kid? Yes he's armed, but he's still a child.

If you do say yes to shooting at that kid, then you should have no objection at Palestinians killing settler kids because you know very well that settlers are armed and if (and when) their children are also armed, then they are legitimate targets.

Interesting! ………..So according to your twisted logic, the Israelis should be entitled to and have all the right to kill every Palestinian between the ages of 8 and 60 since they are a [b:post_uid0]legitimate[/b:post_uid0] target because they have the [b:post_uid0]potential[/b:post_uid0] to be armed, to fire a gun, throw a grenade, or blow themselves up, right? Tell me something Anonymous! Is it due to ignorance, or only to interference with your argument, that you missed the most important point of the reply, namely; “……….would [b:post_uid0]aim a loaded gun[/b:post_uid0] with the [b:post_uid0]intent to kill[/b:post_uid0], therefore pose a [b:post_uid0]clear[/b:post_uid0] and [b:post_uid0]present[/b:post_uid0] threat on the life of my family………”? What kind of sick, twisted person can justify [b:post_uid0]deliberately targeting[/b:post_uid0] children because, for example as one argument goes, they have the potential to grow up and become soldiers……and as crit13 has already pointed out, [b:post_uid0]I’m not talking about defending yourself against a pointed gun,[/b:post_uid0] but I’m talking about  acts like this:

Twelve people were killed and more than 50 were injured by a suicide bomber on the 2 March 2002. [b:post_uid0]The bomb was detonated next to a group of women waiting with their children,[/b:post_uid0] for their husbands to leave the nearby synagogue. Those killed included two sisters Shiraz Nehmad aged 6 and her two-year-old sister Liran, their four cousins LIdor and Oriah Ilan aged 12 years and 18 months and Shaul and Avraham Eliahu Nehmad aged 15 and 17.

How was that particular act for example justifiable?

Deliberately targetting unarmed children is not ok, but, according to you, armed children are legitimate targets.

That’s right! [b:post_uid0]Deliberately targeting unarmed children is WRONG[/b:post_uid0], but someone, who is  [b:post_uid0]pointing a gun at you[/b:post_uid0] with the intent of killing you, [b:post_uid0]is[/b:post_uid0] a legitimate target!……care to disagree?

p.s. Just_a_kafer, im still waiting for your answer to the question i asked u in my previous post. Don't change the subejct again, just answer the question  

….and what that question might be, if you don’t mind me asking?

Kafir

Edited By Just_a_Kafer on 1033616363

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Syed,

Jews of Zionist? Please make a distinction between the two. Most of the Zionist don't observe Jewish law, but conveniently use Judaism as a way to claim their rights over Palestine.

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Syed,

Jews of Zionist? Please make a distinction between the two. Most of the Zionist don't observe Jewish law, but conveniently use Judaism as a way to claim their rights over Palestine.

(salam)

it good to see someone else who cares about being correct.   :)  

I knew I should have joined the conversation at the beginning!  Oh well, we'll just see what happens.  I'm  guessing it'll end the way it always does, with this topic being locked, but I could be wrong.  

ws

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Salam Alaikum

Just_a_Kafer

So according to your twisted logic, the Israelis should be entitled to and have all the right to kill every Palestinian between the ages of 8 and 60 since they are a legitimate target because they have the [b:post_uid0]potential[/b:post_uid0] to be armed, to fire a gun, throw a grenade, or blow themselves up, right?

Where on earth did i say [b:post_uid0]potential[/b:post_uid0]? READ what i said in my previous post:

If you do say yes to shooting at that kid, then you should have no objection at Palestinians killing settler kids because you know very well that settlers are armed and [b:post_uid0]if (and when) their children are also armed, then they are legitimate targets [/b:post_uid0].

I said "[b:post_uid0][i:post_uid0]if [/i:post_uid0](and when) their children are also armed, then they are legitimate targets[/b:post_uid0].  I never said if they have the potential. Please read the posts carefully next time before you reply.

What kind of sick, twisted person can justify deliberately targeting children

I think we all agree by now that deliberately targeting unarmed children is wrong. This was said from the beginning, so stop going back to this point.

Brother Aamir, feel free to join the discussion  :) .

wasalam

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Salam Alaikum

Dhulfiqar

There's a HUGE difference between Hamas and Hizbullah

Brother, I am sure you are aware that Hizbullah fully supports and helps Hamas. Hizbullah supports 100% the martyrdom operations in  [b:post_uid0]ALL[/b:post_uid0] of Palestine (whether in the 67 or 48 borders). They also consider the Zionist society to be a military society, i.e., there are no civilians in "Israel".

wasalam

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Brother, I am sure you are aware that Hizbullah fully supports and helps Hamas. Hizbullah supports 100% the martyrdom operations in  [b:post_uid0]ALL[/b:post_uid0] of Palestine (whether in the 67 or 48 borders). They also consider the Zionist society to be a military society, i.e., there are no civilians in "Israel".

wasalam

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Salam Alaikum

Dhulfiqar

There's a HUGE difference between Hamas and Hizbullah

Brother, I am sure you are aware that Hizbullah fully supports and helps Hamas. Hizbullah supports 100% the martyrdom operations in  [b:post_uid0]ALL[/b:post_uid0] of Palestine (whether in the 67 or 48 borders). They also consider the Zionist society to be a military society, i.e., there are no civilians in "Israel".

wasalam

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Anonymous,

I guess I should have suggested that you to “Please read the posts carefully next time before you reply.” when you refuted this argument;

If someone, regardless who, would [b:post_uid0]aim a loaded gun with the intent to kill,[/b:post_uid0] therefore pose a [b:post_uid0]clear and present[/b:post_uid0] threat on the life of my family, I would do whatever I can and whatever it takes to deal with that threat and defend my family!

…..with this reply:

So u would shoot that kid? Yes he's armed, but he's still a child.

If you do say yes to shooting at that kid, then you should have no objection at Palestinians killing settler kids because you know very well that settlers are armed and if (and when) their children are also armed, then they are legitimate targets

Do you see something wrong in drawing that parallel or not? Do you see the diference between [b:post_uid0]carrying a weapon[/b:post_uid0] and  [b:post_uid0]aiming a weapon[/b:post_uid0]? …….is there a difference between [b:post_uid0]intent[/b:post_uid0] and [b:post_uid0]potential[/b:post_uid0], or not?

 

……also

Quote  

What kind of sick, twisted person can justify deliberately targeting children

I think we all agree by now that deliberately targeting unarmed children is wrong. This was said from the beginning, so stop going back to this point. uh??  

.....shall we try that one more time!

What kind of sick, twisted person can justify deliberately targeting children because, [b:post_uid0]for example as one argument goes,[/b:post_uid0] they have the potential to grow up and become soldiers……

reference: Hablillah (Sep. 29 2002,23:50)

Not only that, when those kids grow up, they will be forced into going into the army as well.

uh??  uh??  

Kafir

Edited By Just_a_Kafer on 1033702719

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Peace Dhulfiqar,

Thank you sire! :)  

Kafir

Don't thank me... people will think we are in cahoots!

*looks towards the jury* I have never seen this man before in my life!

:)

Wa Salaam,

Dhulfiqar

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Martyr Attacks

As salaam alaikum

Following article may help to clarify this issue.

This is a profound and complicated issue. Please note:-

1. No adults in "Israel" are innocent civilians all do national service and are part of a military reserve.

2. If you follow the news of military operations carried out by national and Islamic forces in Palestine, Lebanon etc most targets appear to be military in the strictest sense of the word. Often news of these is only reported by Hamas. Check their web site www.palestine-info.com/index_e.htm

3. Please check out the ulema who say martyr attacks are not suicide. Please contact Sheikh Qaradawi at www.islam-online.net/english/index.shtml

, or Ayatullah Sayyid Fadullah at bayynat@bayynat.org.lb. Both are eminent scholars and unlike some of their Saudi critics have suffered in the jihad fi sabeel Allah.

4. Faisal Bodi did an excellent piece on this issue in the Guardian August 28th [Monday].

5. The descriptions of the youth that carry out these operations usually show them to be calm and pious people. There intention is not to take their own life, because they cannot face up to problems. Indeed I believe sometimes because they can't locate their targets they come back.

6. Ultimately all things are in the hands of Allah. If these brothers [and I believe there may be sisters too] decide to attack the enemy in this way we must respect their integrity. If we believe they are misguided, or do not agree with their sheikhs and scholars, we should not start damming them, but agree to differ.

7. Don't be swayed by the Western and Zionist press, these people especially the London Jewish News are hypocrites, who support politically and financially the slaughter of oppressed unarmed people in Palestine, Lebanon etc. Even now they starving and bombing Iraqis to death, as a ruse to keep the Saddam clique in power.

8. I attach a few articles by non-Muslims via MER. While these journalists call the martyr attacks suicide bombers, they have bothered to interview the brothers and note down what they said. Some of the Islamic opinions expressed are incorrect.

9. Finally let me try to recall the story of the brother who carried out the attack on the US marine base in Beirut in 1982.He had a dream the night before he was going to attack the base that the lorry packed with explosives, was too tall to go into the bases underground car park. He told his comrades and they told him to postpone the attack while they worked out the dimensions of the truck and the entrance. Sure enough the truck was too big. They got a more suitable vehicle. The attack was carried out a day or so later. It happened that the night the successful attack took place, was unusual, the Marines had arranged a cabaret, and invited the CIA. All of them soldiers and spies perished. The US operation in Lebanon, which had done so much to help the Zionists and fascists and keep the Muslims oppressed, was devastated. The Yankees got out of Lebanon. The brothers who carried out this attack went on to build a new Islamic organisation they called Hizbullah.

MER WEEKEND READING:

18 August 2001 11:11

RELECTIONS ON THE "Suicide Bombers"

"A photograph exists of Nidal's head and upper torso

after the bombing. Much of what it depicts is a grisly

mess. But his face is unblemished, his hair neatly

combed, his eyes almost fully closed. The expression

is one of peace."

MID-EAST REALITIES © - www.MiddleEast.Org - Washington - 8/18:

In a sense, a very important sense, the "Suicide Bombers" now so much in the news should have stamped on them "Made in Israel, Encouraged by USA". There were few if any "Suicide Bombers" just a few years ago. The phenomena first arose out of Israel's destructive invasion of Lebanon in and before 1982, then the occupation of about 10% of that country which only ended last year. During the first Palestinian Intifada there were few if any "Suicide Bombers". But as the military occupation has become even more brutal, and as "the peace process" has grown even more deceptive and onerous, a generation, which has only known fear and torture, has turned to new and more grisly tactics of their own. And if no serious and just solution is found to today's predicament this cycle is likely to continue on into the next generation when tactics and weapons of mass destruction may come into play.

A SUICIDE BOMBER'S WORLD

By Cameron W. Barr

[The Christian Science Monitor - 14 August]:

Palestinian militants are intensifying their use of

suicide attacks against Israel. Since March 4, 15

suicide bombers have taken the lives of at least 52

people, the vast majority of them Israelis. One of the

most deadly occurred last Thursday in a pizza

restaurant in Jerusalem; another bomber struck a

coffee shop near the Israeli port city of Haifa Sunday

evening.

In recent weeks, the Monitor has interviewed

Palestinian militants involved in suicide bombings, a

young man who has considered carrying out such an

operation, the father of a deceased bomber, and some

Israelis who were affected by one attack. The

following accounts offer a closer look at this form of

violence - the motivations of its perpetrators and the

experiences of its victims.

CAREER OPTION: MARTYR

RAMALLAH, WEST BANK

Hassan, as he asks to be called, holds a brand-new

professional degree from a Palestinian university. He

faces a career choice that says much about the future

of the Israeli-Palestinian conflict.

On the one hand, he might like to get into human

rights work. Another option is "martyrdom" - perhaps

by carrying an explosive into a crowd of Israelis and

detonating it.

"I have become capable of sacrificing myself for my

religion and my homeland," says Hassan, who was

interviewed on the condition that his real name not be

used. Having spent several years in Israeli jails for

militant activity, he worries that the exposure could

put the Israelis back on his trail.

A slender, soft-spoken young man with wiry brown hair

and a narrow face, Hassan wears jeans, a brown

T-shirt, and delicate, metal-framed glasses.

He has the intense, slightly uncertain demeanour of a

university intellectual - hunching his shoulders and

crossing his legs, he smokes a lot and fidgets

endlessly with a ring on his right hand as he speaks.

During a two-hour meeting in the leafy garden of a

private home in Ramallah, Hassan is gentle-humored in

his explanations of the theology and logistics of

suicide bombing.

Martyrdom-seekers, as they consider themselves, reject

any notion that their actions constitute suicide,

which is forbidden by the Koran. Hassan says

candidates are chosen for their piety and sincerity;

anyone who seems troubled or suicidal is screened out.

The proper motive is to take jihad - a holy war to

defend or promote Islam - to the extreme. Those

preparing for an operation, Hassan says, spend much of

their time in prayer in an attempt to separate

themselves mentally from the world as they know it.

They see jihad as a "pillar" of Islam, an obligation.

"As long as people occupy Muslim land," Hassan adds,

"that obligation remains." Hassan is a member of

Islamic Jihad, a militant group that advocates the

eradication of Israel.

Would-be bombers are always free to step back, even

during the final moments of their missions, Hassan

insists.

"It is written in the Koran that the hearts of

believers are in the hands of God," he says. "He can

make them change their minds, so the choice is always

wide open."

The bombers typically are not members of Islamic

Jihad's secretive "military wing," which is known as

the Jerusalem Brigades. They are part of a corps of

pious volunteers who implement a bombing's final

phase.

Members of the military wing handle just about

everything else involved in suicide operations. Some

specialize in assembling the combination of explosives

and nails that most bombers employ, others in defining

targets, still others in penetrating Israeli security

and bringing the bomber close to a target site.

Operating in small cells with different functions, the

militants are linked by intermediaries and have little

or no contact with each other, to defend against

infiltration by Israeli agents, Hassan says. The

militants work with a bomber only when an operation is

set in motion.

He is unfazed by questions about the legitimacy of

actions in which civilians and even children are

killed.

"According to my religion, I'm doing Jewish children a

favor, because if they get killed [in an operation]

they go to Heaven instead of dying as a soldier and

going to Hell," he says.

The bomber, too, is promised admission to the highest

level of paradise, the one reserved for prophets and

saints, Hassan says. Martyrs win salvation for 70 of

their relatives and enjoy the eternal pleasures of a

like number of heavenly virgins.

Bombers are freed from worry about their families'

futures, since Islamic Jihad undertakes to provide for

those left behind. Hassan says a colleague once told

him: "Don't talk to me about earthly things - I'm in

another world."

MR. RED AND MR. BLACK

NABLUS, WEST BANK

In a vacant suite of offices in a busy commercial

building in this West Bank city, three Islamic Jihad

operatives - two militants and their "handler" from

the party's political department - sit down to talk

about their work with three foreign journalists.

The operatives insist on staying in the suite's

airless hallway, away from windows that might admit an

Israeli missile more easily than stone-and-cement

walls. They keep their eyes on the door.

The militants' faces are wrapped in Palestinian

headscarves, or keffiyehs, to prevent identification.

One man wears a red-checked scarf. The other's

keffiyeh is the same black check worn by Palestinian

leader Yasser Arafat.

They provide no names; the handler gives only a first

name that he asks not be published. The militants sit

mute through questions about their backgrounds,

operations they have participated in, and what they

are training to do. The handler vetoes these topics as

too sensitive.

The journalists, wary of hoaxsters with clever

imaginations, begin to get exasperated. Mr. Red begins

to get annoyed. He pulls a handgun from under his

plaid shirt, displaying it in a way that violates

several rules of firearm safety.

"This is how I would identify myself," he says.

In the end, his comments, and those of Mr. Black, are

more convincing than the weapon.

They claim two motivations for joining the military

wing. "Our main objective is to satisfy God's will by

undertaking jihad," says Red. The other is to regain

the Palestinians' "stolen land and dignity."

The handler explains that the two men are not would-be

bombers, but militants who help the bombers carry out

their missions. He identifies Red as a bombmaker and

Black as a "sender," someone who devises operations

and brings the bomber or bombers within striking

distance.

Yet the two men themselves sound ready for the

ultimate sacrifice.

"We are living martyrs; we are martyrs who are not yet

dead," avers Black, adding that his enthusiasm is

shared by the bombers with whom he has worked.

He recalls one operation, on May 25 in the Israeli

seaside resort of Hadera, in which two Islamic Jihad

bombers died when they detonated an explosive-laden

minivan near the city's bus station.

The mission had been conceived as a solo attack, but

two candidates to carry it out were fighting over the

opportunity.

So the militants changed the plan to allow for a

second bomber, who was supposed to detonate an

explosive in a place apart from the minivan. For

reasons known only to the bombers, they died together,

injuring more than a dozen people.

Red, Black, and their handler identify the main

criteria of a mission's success: a high number of

casualties, the penetration of the Israeli security

cordon, and the derailment of whatever negotiations or

cease-fire efforts are under way.

The handler explains that Islamic Jihad is under no

illusions

that suicide bombings can defeat Israel's military,

the most powerful in the Middle East.

The organization's goals are to "escalate the

conflict" so that the "Islamic world" will join the

Palestinian struggle, to "balance the terror" that the

Israelis inflict on Palestinians and to demonstrate

that the Israeli security forces are not invincible.

Black, the sender, stresses the importance of

defeating Israeli efforts to prevent bombings. On July

16, the Israelis were expecting an attack in a town

called Binyamina.

"To reach the target and explode the bomb" under such

circumstances, he says, "that's success."

That is exactly what a young Palestinian farmer named

Nidal Abu Shadouf did. Although Islamic Jihad has a

reputation for indiscriminate killing, Black also

considers Binyamina the most successful of the group's

recent operations because its victims were Israeli

soldiers.

The BINYAMINA BLAST

BINYAMINA, ISRAEL

At nearly half past 7 p.m. on July 16, Nidal Abu

Shadouf's sender dropped him off a short walk from the

train station in Binyamina, a town of red-roofed

bungalows in central Israel that mainly serves as a

bedroom community for Tel Aviv and other cities.

Binyamina is nine miles from the "green line" that

divides Israel from the West Bank.

The Israel Railways Authority had assigned extra

security guards to the station. As in other areas of

the country, people girded themselves for the worst.

Abu Shadouf, the eldest of 11 children from a farming

family in the northern West Bank village of Burqin,

proceeded along a two-lane road that runs past the

station.

The day was fading into dusk, and the light dimmed

still further as he walked under a shade tree that

towers over the station entrance.

Every weekday, between 7:25 p.m. and 7:35 p.m., three

trains stop at the station, depositing scores of

passengers onto its platforms. These people may have

been the bomber's intended target.

But a guard at the front of the station caught sight

of Abu Shadouf, says Chanan Graf, head of security for

the Railways Authority.

What the guard saw sets off mental alarms anywhere in

Israel today: a 20-something Palestinian carrying a

knapsack. The eyes of the guard met the eyes of the

bomber.

Abu Shadouf apparently changed course, hurrying across

the street and walking up to a bus stop. Four soldiers

were in the small shelter because Binyamina is close

to an Israeli military training facility.

Miri Shamir and her 2-year-old son had just parked in

front of the station. She had brought a big balloon to

greet her husband. It said "Happy Birthday." At 7:34

Ms. Shamir, a Tel Aviv lawyer, answered a call on her

cellphone. Then Abu Shadouf set off his bomb.

Less than 100 yards away, in a garden filled with

sculptures, an artist named Gabriel was enjoying the

cool of the early evening with a friend.

The noise of the blast deafened the ears and its shock

wave jarred the stomach, says Gabriel, who wouldn't

give his second name.

The two men sensed there were casualties and ran

toward the scene. The smell of explosive filled the

air.

Silence descended. "It was quiet like a desert," says

Gabriel. All traffic had stopped. Everyone who could

had fled. Those who couldn't - the dead and the

wounded - lay on the ground.

Then Shamir stepped out of her station wagon, its

windows shattered, its sides punctured. Blood from a

wound on the back of her head was staining her white

shirt.

Inexplicably she left her sandals in the car and

walked barefoot on broken glass to reach her son and

get him out of the car seat. He was screaming that he

couldn't see.

Security guards and soldiers soon reached her and took

care of the boy, who was unhurt except for a scratch

above his eye.

Gabriel and his friend, a medic in Israel's military

reserves, helped Shamir until emergency teams arrived.

She and a half-dozen others were hospitalized with

serious injuries.

Shamir is recovering from her injuries and feeling

vulnerable. "In Israel, it's like Russian roulette.

You never know when you are going to get it," she

says. In June, the family had moved from Tel Aviv to a

town near Binyamina because they feared bomb attacks

in Israel's largest city.

Avi Ben-Haroush and Hanit Arami, the young soldiers

who died in the blast, are memorialized in a plaque

that Binyamina authorities installed next to the

reconstructed bus stop.

"They were murdered at the hands of a son of injustice

who lacked humanity," the inscription reads.

'WE HAVE NO TANKS'

BURQIN, WEST BANK

Ibrahim Abu Shadouf found out about his son's death on

TV the night of July 16. He says he never knew that

Nidal was involved with Islamic Jihad, much less

contemplating a suicide bombing.

Mr. Abu Shadouf is vague about what feelings of loss

he might be experiencing.

"You know how parents feel when their child gets

killed," is all he will say about hearing the news.

Neighbors and friends soon distracted him with

congratulatory visits.

When Palestinian suicide bombers die, their families

receive accolades, not condolences. Posters depicting

Nidal in heroic poses were quickly printed and put up

throughout his village.

The Abu Shadouf family lives in a whitewashed hillside

home in Burqin, a West Bank village known as the site

where Jesus healed 10 lepers. The eldest son of a

partially blind father, Nidal sacrificed his

birthright and deprived Abu Shadouf of daily help in

the fields when he carried out his mission.

A gruff man with a head of wavy white hair and a

bristly beard, the father is without complaint.

"You can't ask others to liberate you," he says. "We

don't have enough people to support us for the time

being - that's why we end up throwing ourselves in

front of tanks."

Of suicide attacks, Abu Shadouf says: "That is what is

left to us. We have no tanks, no Apache helicopters."

Many Palestinians say the current conflict is making

life unbearable, the worst period in their modern

history. Abu Shadouf calls it "the best period"

because he sees Palestinians fighting for their

rights.

"The jihad is the only way to achieve our freedom," he

says. "Although it is tough and we pay with the blood

of our children, still it is good.... I am willing to

sacrifice my seven sons so that one day justice can be

achieved."

Abu Shadouf says his son was distraught over the death

of a cousin, a Palestinian security-force member who

was killed by Israeli fire in December. Nidal may have

wanted to avenge his cousin's death.

On the day he died, says Abu Shadouf, Nidal stopped

working at about 4 p.m., showered, and prayed. He put

on some clothes he had recently bought - a black

T-shirt and trousers - and left as if he were going to

hang out with friends. There were no meaningful

goodbyes, not even to his mother.

A photograph exists of Nidal's head and upper torso

after the bombing. Much of what it depicts is a grisly

mess. But his face is unblemished, his hair neatly

combed, his eyes almost fully closed. The expression

is one of peace.

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1. No adults in "Israel" are innocent civilians all do national service and are part of a military reserve.

…….therefore they all deserve to die right?...........btw, you are WRONG! Israeli Arabs, Christians, and U.Ortodox Jews make up 1/3 of Israel’s population and [b:post_uid0]they are exempt of military service![/b:post_uid0]

2. If you follow the news of military operations carried out by national and Islamic forces in Palestine, Lebanon etc most targets appear to be military in the strictest sense of the word. Often news of these is only reported by Hamas. Check their web site www.palestine-info.com/index_e.htm

Yeah right!

uh??

3. Please check out the ulema who say martyr attacks are not suicide. Please contact Sheikh Qaradawi at www.islam-online.net/english/index.shtml

, or Ayatullah Sayyid Fadullah at bayynat@bayynat.org.lb. Both are eminent scholars and unlike some of their Saudi critics have suffered in the jihad fi sabeel Allah.

4. Faisal Bodi did an excellent piece on this issue in the Guardian August 28th [Monday].

5. The descriptions of the youth that carry out these operations usually show them to be calm and pious people. There intention is not to take their own life, because they cannot face up to problems. Indeed I believe sometimes because they can't locate their targets they come back.

6. Ultimately all things are in the hands of Allah. If these brothers [and I believe there may be sisters too] decide to attack the enemy in this way we must respect their integrity. If we believe they are misguided, or do not agree with their sheikhs and scholars, we should not start damming them, but agree to differ.

…and that’s all there is to it, right?

7. Don't be swayed by the Western and Zionist press, these people especially the London Jewish News are hypocrites, who support politically and financially the slaughter of oppressed unarmed people in Palestine, Lebanon etc. [b:post_uid0]Even now they starving and bombing Iraqis to death, as a ruse to keep the Saddam clique in power.[/b:post_uid0]

Interesting conclusion! :s

8. I attach a few articles by non-Muslims via MER. While these journalists call the martyr attacks suicide bombers, they have bothered to interview the brothers and note down what they said. [b:post_uid0]Some of the Islamic opinions expressed are incorrect.[/b:post_uid0]

To avoid confusion, would you mind pointing out those incorrect opinions for us?

9. Finally let me try to recall the story of the brother who carried out the attack on the US marine base in Beirut in 1982.He had a dream the night before he was going to attack the base that the lorry packed with explosives, was too tall to go into the bases underground car park. He told his comrades and they told him to postpone the attack while they worked out the dimensions of the truck and the entrance. Sure enough the truck was too big. They got a more suitable vehicle. The attack was carried out a day or so later. It happened that the night the successful attack took place, was unusual, the Marines had arranged a cabaret, and invited the CIA. All of them soldiers and spies perished. The US operation in Lebanon, which had done so much to help the Zionists and fascists and keep the Muslims oppressed, was devastated. The Yankees got out of Lebanon. The brothers who carried out this attack went on to build a new Islamic organisation they called Hizbullah.

I believe we can all agree that the above mentioned attack was against a military target!

Finally I’m curious of [b:post_uid0]your own opinion[/b:post_uid0]………..it is, or it is not justifiable to deliberately target children?

Kafir

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1. No adults in "Israel" are innocent civilians all do national service and are part of a military reserve.

…….therefore they all deserve to die right?...........btw, you are WRONG! Israeli Arabs, Christians, and U.Ortodox Jews make up 1/3 of Israel’s population and they are exempt of military service!

Just to add to the weak and totally stupid "all Isreali's are or will be soldiers" one day so therefore it's ok to kill them as a pre-emptive strike theory.  

If one is born in Isreal and is required to take part in military training but have not attacked a Palestinian -- why do they deserve to die?  It's only required by law b/c Isreal has been under constant attack since inception.  I'm willing to bet Isreal didn't have a required military law before the Arab world decided to destroy it.  What was the mantra before the whole " All Isreali's are Soldiers" [Edited Out]?  

It only makes sense if one is grasping for straws to morally justify killing somebody.  It's convenient how that works out for Muslims -- isn't it?  Another sick and twisted way to justify violence and not commit a sin.  How convenient.

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Br Ali

[b:post_uid0][Do we really need Zionist Propaganda here at shiachat.com?? [/b:post_uid0]

Everyone sees what is happening to Palestinian people.

Israelis are butchering them!!! BUTCHERING them in broad daylight.!!

150 days of house arrest for 150 000 thousand Palestinians with total of 6(max) hours for shopping the necessities (food supplies). Is that a life you want for yourself & your family?? Do you wonder why Palestinians carry out bombing against the Israelis oppressors?

DO YOU think there is any limit to Israelis cruelties??

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Br Ali

[b:post_uid0][Do we really need Zionist Propaganda here at shiachat.com?? [/b:post_uid0]

So your message is stop to stop the Zionist prapaganda but pour on the Palestinian propaganda? That's the way to have fair, unbiased opinions and to have an open mind isn't it?

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There is no term call Palestinians Propaganda. The Zionist owns all the mass media. In fact I am very sure you would want us to believe there is no Palestine state and that piece of Land was un-inhabitant and the racist God of Jew promise them the land and on top of that ALL Arabs are after your blood.

A lot of people here are daily feed with Zionist CNN Propaganda machinery, Fox TV, ABC, CBS, NBC, XYZ. Is it too much to wish that Shiachat.com be free of Zionist Propaganda??

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Guest hussam
The God of the Jew is my God as well and you've just called Him a racist? May God have mercy on you and forgive your arrogance and hatred.

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Guest hussam

Isreal is war zone. That land has been usurped, therefore operations can occur to take land back. The people who really target children are the the racist illegal Zionist regime lead by the war crimal Ariel Sharon. America kills plenty of children in iraq everywhere. The martyrdom operations are targeted removing and destroying the zionist regime, not at killing young people, thats Israel job( Sharon supported ethnic cleansing in Beirut). For peace to occur the zionist must give the land back to their rightfull owners.

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I don't think Muslims identify Israelis as Jews, but Zionists usurpers, who have taken land unlawfully, also are u a Zionist why are u so concerned about Israel?, and kiss their butt so much,

I think your an America evangelical, I may be wrong

If you are one then why do you support your government in supporting war in a part of the world which has nothing to do with Americas. All that money that you spent on racist scum Jewish settlers and “security” could be spend on your christen brothers who are poor in your country or other countries, or on blacks who the white Americans enslaved for so long. No need for America in middle east, America is getting used by Zionist badly, their controlling that country.

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Reason why the Christians like Way2Go support Israel is because they think or they dream that when Jesus comes back, all the Jews in Israel will convert to Christianity.

They are living in lala land.

Wa Salaam,

Dhulfiqar

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Reason why the Christians like Way2Go support Israel is because they think or they dream that when Jesus comes back, all the Jews in Israel will convert to Christianity.

They are living in lala land.

Wa Salaam,

Dhulfiqar

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Jenin massacre. One example of Palestinian propaganda.

Zionists own all mass media, Islamic propaganda.

Palestinian State? Where? Can't find it on any world map or Atlas.

[b:post_uid0] Zionist Propaganda again [/b:post_uid0]

The God of the Jew is my God as well and you've just called Him a racist? May God have mercy on you and forgive your arrogance and hatred.

[b:post_uid0] Same insanity. [/b:post_uid0]

I know the majority of Arabs are good people so don't show your ignorance by being "very sure" you know anything about me at all. :P

[b:post_uid0] Whatever...g'nite [/b:post_uid0]

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